Can DS possibly come back from the dead one more time after diasterous Depp Film

[michael c]

I also think there are a lot of fans in "denial" about how big a "franchise" or potential "franchise" DS was in the first place...


depp and burton took it on as a labor of love. for countless reasons it went in directions not everyone, probably including them, were happy with. i'm sure they, and the studio, hoped for a surprise hit but it was a longshot from the outset.


it's important to "us". not the general public. "we" had higher hopes for it than anyone. but the public has a very short attention span. i'm sure in five years this could, yet again, see some sort of revival without the offbeat sensibility of the depp film leaving a permanent "stain". and fans were the ones who were upset that it wasn't "serious". the general public had no preconceived ideas about it one way or the other. they likely just saw it as another cartoonish depp/burton romp.

[MagnusTrask]

I'm not sure why a new show called Dark Shadows is necessarily desirable.   I think they way things worked out may be ideal.   Like the 1991 series, a bit of interest was generated, people were reminded of the original show, video of it was marketable.   Both weren't so successful that they took over how people saw DS, and the old show still dominates.   The Depp film damaged nothing and made DS able to limp along in fandom a few more years at least.

The last thing I'd want is some new DS that distorts as badly as the new Dr Who and Star Trek do.

[Cousin_Barnabas]

I also think there are a lot of fans in "denial" about how big a "franchise" or potential "franchise" DS was in the first place...

This is a valid point.  It certainly does not have a "Star Wars" type following or even a "Star Trek" type following, but it has a cult following that is (most likely) larger than your average cult.  It also appeals to a couple of other groups, Horror fans being one.  The main thing about Dark Shadows is that it has the potential to become very big again, simply because there is a timelessness about the story and the characters.  Given the right set of circumstances, Dark Shadows could take off again, but there are a lot of "ifs," as we have already seen.

[Gerard]

I, of course, loved the Depp/Burton film.  I thought it was a wonderful tribute to DS and that's what it was:  a tribute.  Maybe the comedic approach of Barnabas being a fish out of water, trying to comprehend life 200 years later was a bit whatever (I can't put the right thoughts or words to it), but it was far more realistic than the previous incarnations (the OS and '91) where Barnabas gets released and within 48 hours he's knocking at Collinwood, understanding zippers and the latest episodes of Green Acres or The Golden Girls.  Depp/Burton's concept regarding this situation, in my view, more correct.  Characters needed more fleshing out, and it appears they were before editing placed chunks on the cutting-room floor.  And, as far as I'm concerned, a straight take on the Barnabas story, remade for the umpteenth-millionth time, would not have worked.  The original was the original; it had been copied many times over, including in the banal Twilight thing.  Doing it again as a strict drama would've appeared as nothing more than a rip-off of Twilight, a way of cashing in.  Where the studio failed was in marketing. 

So it was, and it wasn't, "our" DS.  Neither was '91 in what it did with some of the characters.  I never liked how '91 turned Maggie into a tart, or Willie into a bumbling sidekick.  Nothing stays the same.  The latest Star Trek films have taken the original material and placed it in an alternate universe.  Lots of fans were outraged that Spock's mother, Amanda, was killed.  You think irrate fans posting on message boards were upset with the D/B DS film?  You should've seen what they posted about the ST film - they wanted Abrams arrested, tried and executed for heresy.  But the first film was enough of a money-making success to bring about a second one, and I'm sure it'll also be filled with heresy.  Simply redoing the same stories over and over and over again won't work.  Would upset DS fans remained upset if the D/B DS film was basically a remake of HoDS?  HoDS also strayed from the series (although it was closer in the original intent of the Barnabas story - monster kills, monster is caught, monster is killed; 13 weeks done and on to the next plot-line). 

No, the DS "franchise" is alive and doing well.  This year, there are three "festivals" scheduled:  the one in San Diego that's already done, the cruise (the "official" one) and another at Lyndhurst (that, if I'm right, is more focused on '91).  The D/B DS film pulled in nine figures in the box office.  That hardly makes is a financial "dud."  I'd love to see a sequel.  Barnabas and Vicki now share the same lifestyle, as does Julia.  David's spectral mother has returned.  There's now a werewolf in their midst.  Angelique has been defeated (or has she?) and the Collinses look to rebuild.   So many juicy things!  And it's still the 1970's, so we can have soundtracks from Bread and Elton John and people dealing with that new CBS series about a family living at 704 Hawser Street in Queens, NYC.  It would be so much fun, like DS meets American Graffiti.  Plus, you've got a bunch of monsters and spooks thrown in, just like the OS. 

The D/B DS film had so many wonderful things in it.  I will say that the opening credits was among the best.  It set the tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRYy8poaJwg

Brilliant.  Simply brilliant.  It wasn't our Robert Cobert opening music, but it was brilliant.  It was the train ride of Vicki just as it was in the OS and in '91, and done much better than DC did in both his versions.  Brilliant.

Gerard

[Gothick]

Well, I for one still love Vicki's original 1966 train ride the best, particularly her conversation with the gossipy old biddy.  I wish I could remember the actress's name.  What a hoot.

I thought having Nights in White Satin play over the 1972 "Victoria"'s journey was a stroke of genius, particularly in retrospect upon learning her backstory--though sadly I doubt there were any accoutrements of white satin in the place she was journeying from, but as a trope for a certain mental state... genius.

I only wish the remainder of the movie had lived up to that moment.  For me it did not.  The Liz/Julia deleted scene was a painful reminder of what this movie *could have been*--I'll stop here because it's all been said before.

I am glad there are fans out there like Gerard who worship every moment of the Depp/Burton movie.  It's always nice to see folks taking joy in things.

G.

[Mysterious Benefactor]

As far as critics' opinions of the Depp/DS film go, certainly a majority of critics didn't love it - but then, a majority didn't hate it either. As I've said before, the critics' opinions were pretty split with some liking much of the film and some not liking much of the film. But even within those reviews, those who liked much of the film had aspects they disliked, and those not liking much of the film had aspects they praised. There is a Web site that averages the critical opinions of films based on the reviews of the major critics, and according to that site, the Depp/DS film averaged 3.5 stars out of 5, which, while split, leans it somewhat more to the positive than to the negative (and even their audience response gives it 3.2 out of 5, which is also somewhat more to the positive than to the negative). So, anyone who says the majority of critics disliked the film is fooling him/herself as much as anyone who thinks the majority of critics liked the film is. 

[Nicky]

And, fortunately or unfortunately, the pop cultural market is simply saturated with movies and television shows (mostly television shows) employing the same kinds of tropes that DS (mostly) pioneered.  We're watching Hemlock Grove on Netflix, and while it's rather a romp, it -- and Vampire Diaries -- and True Blood -- and (ick) Twilight -- make a new DS series redundant.  I'd love to see someone have a go at it (I still regret that the 2004 remake was yanked before it could even have a chance to flourish) ... who knows?  Like Diana Millay ... er, Laura Collins ... DS has shown us all before how very phoenix-like it can be ...

[The Doctor and K9]

david's assessment sounds pretty accurate...

even people who watched the OS during it's run would be hard pressed to recall the storyline in any detail other than regaling tales of "running home from school" or their barnabas lunchbox. but plot specifics? forget it.

Half of the people who watched in the 60s and have not gone back since can't even get his name right. "I remember BarnabUs", or "Who was it Barnaby?"   I don't hear Barnaby much anymore because Barbaby Jones is a dim, almost forgotten memory, but when it was on or in frequent syndication I'd hear that name attached to Collins. Some remember Quentin but often forget the name. They'll ask who was the werewolf?

[michael c]

yeah my mom watched it during it's run and only remembers two characters: barnabas and quentin...


to her recollection it was "about" them and both charcaters were on it from the beginning. when I first started watching it on video sometimes she's watch it with me and when it was a 1966-1968 episode she'd always ask " where's quentin?". when I replied he wasn't on it yet she seemed disoriented.


and when the film was in it's early production stages even fans, who know the character was not even introduced until nearly three years into the run, seemed to be under the impression the quentin character would be on the canvas as if that would make any sense.

[The Doctor and K9]

(people )seemed to be under the impression the quentin character would be on the canvas as if that would make any sense.

I can understand why people who saw the original series in the 60s would focus on Quentin as an integral part of DS. I too wondered where Quentin was when I saw it in syndication in '76.  My memories of the original airings were of Barnabas and Quentin. I had a Quentin postcard a friend had given me; he had a double.  I was reading the Ross novels  which were about Barnabas, Quentin, and the Scooby Doo Villain of the Month.  The Gold Key comic only regularly featured 7 characters from the show; Quentin was one of them.  Frid was not available for NODS..who did they call to fill the lead? Many of the original fans were not watching from the beginning and a huge number came in after Quentin was on the show. Every time period from 1897 on featured a Quentin.  I wondered why he was not in HODS.  He's much more prominent probably, in the minds of people who saw it in the original run. Those who watched later would see Vicky (and eventually Barnabas) as the focus of the first half of the show and Barnabas  and Quentin in the second. 

[quentincollins]

The DS movie made money, which imo means it wasn't a complete failure.
I think there's a good chance for a new movie or tv series some day. Interest in vampires never really goes away, and the level of interest peaks every few years with a new re invention.
In the meantime, we have the old serieses, plus old and new ongoing spin off material, novels, audio drama, comics.

[michael c]

I didn't say Quentin wasn't an important character...


I said he was a relative latecomer. fans(not simply people who watched the show 40-odd years ago)are aware of that. so when the depp film was underway, and those fans knew it would focus on the barnabas storyline, I was confused that there were those who had expectations that Quentin we be featured and even expressed surprise and dismay that he would not.


the film was stuffed to the gills with underdeveloped characters and simply didn't have room for another male lead and completely different storyline.

[Cousin_Barnabas]

I wondered why he was not in HODS. 

Off-topic aside:

Now that would have been a stroke of genius...  To have Quentin instead of Jeff.  That would have made it a 5 star film, and we probably would have seen more of the artist backstory from the original script.  Too bad they needed Selby for the TV show. 

Okay...  Back on topic. 

[michael c]

what was however extremely obvious to me was that revealing Carolyn to be a werewolf in the film's last five minutes was a crude setup for a Quentin themed sequel...


one that may not even feature Barnabas.

[David]

Superman Returns (2006) was considered a minor hit which underperformed. Yet here comes Man of Steel.
Dark Shadows will return to the screen as it always does.