Discuss - Ep #0763

Robservations #763

VO: GH

I just love Grayson's delicious raspy voice.  I am currently re reading her biography that RJ did and I find it as compelling the second time as I did reading it back in 2007!  Again, RJ should be applauded for bringing this fascinating, compelling biography to Grayson's "legion"!

If I recall correctly this is the episode which Grayson's implores her teachings from Lee Starsberg's "The Method!"  According to the story Terry was very into the METHOD style of acting so Grayson decided to do some "method acting" with Terry because she knew how important it was to Terry.  Such a wonderful versatile actress Grayson was.  I think people limit her to being "campy" but the woman could do so much more!   Okay sorry for getting off on a tangent! I am a very enthusiastic part of the legion!

I love when David's lovely Southern accent comes through his soft, creamy voice.  He is so charming and engaging!! 
Blooper Alert:  Boom mic in the mirror in Quentin's room.  I believe this is one of the bloopers in the Bloopers DVD.  It irks me  however, to think that they could make at least one more Blooper DVD. I find plenty that aren't included! 

I adore that lovely green chair Magda is sitting in.  It's gorgeous and would look just lovely in my home.  Grayson is a "tour de force" as Magda and she truly owns the role!  Ten dollars?  WOW!  Considering this was 1897 I guess that was a handsome sum of money! Again poor Magda, she is constantly being manhandled!  Bless her heart! I love the lashes they have on Grayson  as they work perfect for her. As a makeup artist, I tend to notice makeup, lashes etc. and will comment on this subject from time to time.  I like to see the different styles Vincent applied through the five years! 

Yes I was right...Grayson did exercise "The Method" in that scene.  I checked her biography to make sure this was the correct episode and it was.  You could truly feel Magda's pain and I felt my own lip curling up a bit as I was on the verge of tears.  Grayson really could play vulnerability to the hilt!  She could play anything and it's a shame she didn't get to stay with us for a longer period on this earth.  I never met her...but I still miss her.  I hope that makes sense and doesn't come across strange.

Terry also does a fabulous job in these scenes with Grayson! Very effective and touching. Kudos to Terry C!

We are back to where we started with Evan and Tim.  I noticed the episode ran 2 minutes and 23 seconds longer than the usual 20 Min's.  Although at times shows have ran under 20 Min's, however,  more DS is ALWAYS fine with me!

A truly great ending. For quite a while the show has ended on a great cliffhangers and not just for it's week ending episodes!

A +

She could play anything and it's a shame she didn't get to stay with us for a longer period on this earth.  I never met her...but I still miss her.  I hope that makes sense and doesn't come across strange.

Not to me, not at all.

Could you tell me what scene you're thinking of, with Magda and the Method?   What the scene is about I mean?

The one scene I've noticed lately where Grayson's acting is very "real", where no one could accuse her of being camp, is when she was cursing Quentin.   Whatever some actors may say about DS that somertimes may sound dismissive, Grayson clearly knew this was an important scene, and was fully there for it.   It was (my favorite word lately so I'm likely to overdo it) "nuanced", subtle, and genuinely human.

It's the scene where she finds out she cursed her own kin.  It's in this episode we are discussing.  Sorry if I wasn't clear on that Magnus! After the scene she reportedly looked at Terry Crawford and said "See, real tears" 

Thanks, Taeylor.  I should mention I guess that since I watch on VHS, I have no episode numbers to refer to, and I've seldom just watched the episode in question.  I can't just watch one at a time, or follow a schedule since I'm out of commission for unpredictable periods.    I don't remember individual episodes but events... for me, it's all one long story where occasionally I have to FF through credits...

I understand Magnus.  I usually can't just watch one episode either, I usually watch two or three at a time and just log my experience on those Legal pads you were talking about!    I understand your situation though!

I'm with Magnus and Taeylor-- I watch episodes in clusters.  How many at a time depends on how long it takes me to write up stuff.  If theres lots of goodies in the episodes, I end up pausing them over and over to write and it takes an hour to do an episode.

LOL Taeylor on your catch about the Ten dollars and real money value.  They did something similar in Raiders of the Lost Ark with the watch that was "ten dollars from any vendor in the street" or something like that, when real value for the time would have been waay less.

On to the show:

Recap of the last teaser.   Poor Tim, now Trask’s pawn more than ever.  Hmm methinks Evan’s hypnosis works better than Julia’s – and without the oogly medallion.  

Apparently Trask has had this in his mind for some time., but how could he be sure he could find someone skilled in hypnosis to set up a patsy for him?  Unless this convoluted plan with the poison and the book and the cards as a trigger is Evan’s plan, once Trask gave him the outline of what he wanted to do….

Cut to the desparate, scared witless and trying to drink it away Quentin.  The moon will be up in 4 hours, and he;s playing cards wih Beth while they both try to pretend everything is normal.  One would think they’d be trying to find a safe secure place to stash him for the night….but instead he’s wallowing.  Interesting that they choose a card game to try and get his mind off things.  Quentin being Quentin, I'd have though his first choice for oblivion without thought would have been talking her into some mindless nookie.

Scared to death and lashing out at everything.   He’s got Beth on the edge of tears again, but  there’s a number of possible reasons.  I don’t think she’s so thin skinned and helpless that she’s all hurt by his sarcasm and lashing out.  Is she hurting for him, because she knows by now what’s behind it when he acts this way?  Is she angry that he’s wallowing instead of trying to do something productive?  Apparently she intends to try to do something.  

He’s got a point about her easily making things worse (which also ends up being foreshadowing, since so much they do tends to go that way), after what happened with Trask.  Notice she doesn’t seem shocked , scared, horrified or surprised when he mentioned trying a Black Mass; apparently she knows about and has come to terms with his involvement with the Black Arts. Nice bit of introspection there about “paying for all the things I’ve done and gotten away with”.  Tells the audience that despite that line about getting rid of Beth’s “inconvenient conscience” he  knows when he’s done wrong as well.  Key differerence between him and Trask:  he knows he’s  done bad things even as he weasels out of the consequences, whereas Trask feels all his actions are both moral and justified.  I believe it’s the lack of understanding of right and wrong, and a lack of empathy which is where we get into psychopath territory.

Nice scene with Magda and Tim (and nice misdirection of the audience, when the conclusion of the last scene leads the audience to think the knock on the door will be Beth).  Magda is smart – she knows something is seriously up, but she’s going to see what she can get out of it.  Pity Tim can’t break the programming and use the nightshade on [spoiler]the RIGHT Trask…..[/spoiler]

Finally we have Beth and Magda.  Another great scene, set up so we join it in progress with Beth running out of arguments to try.   Wonder about Magda’s reference to helping Quentin many times before that Beth doesn’t know about.   Again, you see Beth’s backbone: telling  Magda she wouldn’t want to understand about placing the curse, and wouldn’t want to be a gypsy to be able to do such evil.  Deciding that curse or no, she would go away with Quentin and travel with him to go find a cure (wonder if HE knows this yet?).  

I get the feeling that Magda likes and respects Beth, not to mention feels sorry for her, else she would be far nastier with her.  Seems Beth also hit a nerve, that she would marry him despite the curse.  Wonder if Magda is surprised that she cares that much, or surprised that Quentin can inspire that kind of loyalty.

Oh this is nicely played.  Magda explains that the curse will fall on his son, and Beth drops the other shoe.  The way TC gives that cynical smile and throws  the truth at Magda, she seems almost Quentin like in her pleasure at the hurt the news will cause Magda.

Interesting detail in Beth’s retelling of what happened with Laura Quentin and Jenny.  “Laura was trying to steal Quentin from her”.  So, Mr. Ladies man notwithstanding, can we take Beth’s word that Laura was the aggressor there.  So we find out Edward tried to pay Jenny off to leave after Quentin was tossed out, then Laura left .  I’m puzzling over how this time frame fits in with Laura leaving long enough after Quentin for them to have exchanged multiple letters before then.  Jenny was pregnant enough to know it herself, yet not enough pregnant that her ladies maid noticed; she apparently found out when a still at least partially rational Jenny told Edward.  And it was Edward, then in charge of things and presumed heir, was the one made the decision to make Quentin cease to exist by sending his children away and pretending they never existed either.

Poor Magda, now reaping the rewards of lashing out in blind pain. Again, Beth is smart , she understands that when Magda advises her to get something to protect the boy, that she has no way to end Quentin’s curse.  But in the next scene, she’s back to not so smart.  We see it’s nearly 7PM, apparently dark, and here she comes into Quentin’s room without a worry in the world.  Apparently Quentin’s curse has the same time delay as Barn getting back to the coffin long after sunup, because no sooner do they dare to hope, than the pains start….

Ok, back to why didn’t they think of somewhere to stash him?  He finally talks her into leaving, and she doesn’t even lock the door – doesn’t it occur to EITHER of them that he could kill one of the children?? ??  

All the outbuildings on the estate and you don’t get any indication that either of them considered seeing if locking him in one for the night would keep him contained?

Back to Evan and Tim, and another card game.  LOL like the aside about Edward – that he plays cards badly because he always suspects everyone else of cheating.  But when the card comes up, it doesn’t look llke things are going as planned – Tim is now forcing EVAN to drink the brandy.
Jeannie

I have to wonder if Edward's motivation for sending Quentin's children away wasn't more to keep Grandmama from knowing that her more favored grandson had children that might inherit something away from Edward or his children.
Perhaps we are beginning to see a transformation of Quentin's character as he see's he is paying for his sins.  He could easily have said he didn't deserve this fate.
From watching the show as a child, I recalled Beth as being weak and crying all the time, but even though she does cry she is certainly less frightened than Quentin by the supernatural and a stronger person than he.

I wonder if Magda would have even let Beth through the door had she known that Beth's betrayal of her sister is what set her off and ultimately led to her death.

It varies from woman to woman, but for many it's not until the 2nd trimester that a first-time pregnancy "shows."  Though Jenny was having twins, who knows if she was eating properly (if at all) after Quentin left?  So I think there was probably plenty of time for Laura and Quentin to correspond before Edward learned of Jenny's secret.

Um, I seriously doubt that Bicycle was making the same blue-backed playing cards in 1897 that they are now.

Quentin to Beth:  "How do you expect me to spend my time-- an afternoon of cards, a night of murder?"
If I ever host a murder mystery, THAT is what I'm going to call it.

Hmm methinks Evan’s hypnosis works better than Julia’s – and without the oogly medallion. 

Apparently Trask has had this in his mind for some time., but how could he be sure he could find someone skilled in hypnosis to set up a patsy for him?

But was that simply hypnosis, or was it the Black Arts at work, by way of the potion that made Tim susceptible to suggestions and memory loss?

The powder of nightshade leaves, eh?  I thought the roots were much more toxic than the leaves.  But anyway, I do know that the leaves are stinky and bitter, so good luck with getting somebody to drink it.

I wonder if Magda would have even let Beth through the door had she known that Beth's betrayal of her sister is what set her off and ultimately led to her death.

I'm thinking probably not.  Then again, isn't she just as likely to blame it all on Quentin?  Amusing turn here on the Victorian double standard.  All sexual folly was considered all the woman's fault, but on DS Quentin gets to take all the blame he deserves. 

It varies from woman to woman, but for many it's not until the 2nd trimester that a first-time pregnancy "shows."  Though Jenny was having twins, who knows if she was eating properly (if at all) after Quentin left?  So I think there was probably plenty of time for Laura and Quentin to correspond before Edward learned of Jenny's secret.

OK, that makes sense.  My take was also based on the possibility of Beth guessing before Jenny put it together.  As her ladies maid, Beth would have been responsible for being prepared for Jenny's cycle. Given Jenny's probably mental state at the time, she might have had a better idea than Jenny did when she was late.

Quentin to Beth:  "How do you expect me to spend my time-- an afternoon of cards, a night of murder?"
If I ever host a murder mystery, THAT is what I'm going to call it.

LOL I like it.  Murder mysteries are fun.  Even organizing them is fun, despite all the work involved.  A DS one would be great -- with an obligatory Nick Charles clone to go "I've gathered you all together to tell you who the murderer is".

Pity Fests aren't based on the type of convention model that would make it workable to do one.

Jeannie

Major Milestones:
1. Beth told Magda that Jenny had twins - a boy and a girl.
2. Magda, agonizing that she was unwittingly hurting her own kin, told Beth that the curse would affect Quentin's son.
3. Magda told Beth to buy a pentagram and put it around the boy's neck.
4. Quentin didn't start to turn into a werewolf until 7:00 PM - it was so late that he thought it wouldn't happen, but then it did. Fake out!  

Tim was obviously under the spell when he visited Magda to buy the nightshade. Tim wasn't acting himself when he pulled her aside and threatened to kill her if she said anything.   Don Briscoe really played being under a spell well. It was really creepy when Tim said, "Yes." The way Evan talked to Tim was really eerie, but fascinating, too. It was strangely both funny and scary to watch those scenes... And then, when Tim looked like he would force Evan to drink the poison! The look on Evan's face! Ooh! Very exciting!

Poor Quentin, having to play the waiting game before the pain started. Yes, indeed, instead of waiting around for something to happen, Beth and Quentin should have tried to find someplace where Quentin could be locked up. However, Beth did something! She really displayed some gumption to confront Magda to try to help Quentin. Good for her! What a revelation for Magda to find out that she was unwittingly hurting her kin! The scenes between them were thrilling! I love it when new revelations are revealed!

David Selby really did a great job with those pain scenes! He had a really pliable body which gyrated and twisted all over the place! The expression on his face was great, too! Kudos to him for his acting.

Great acting by HAA, DB, GH, and TC, too! The scenes between Evan and Tim and between Magda and Beth were really exciting, gripping, and well done! Great episode, as so many of them were in 1897!

----- Sally -----

Apparently Trask has had this in his mind for some time., but how could he be sure he could find someone skilled in hypnosis to set up a patsy for him?  Unless this convoluted plan with the poison and the book and the cards as a trigger is Evan’s plan, once Trask gave him the outline of what he wanted to do…

I'm imagining Trask saying, "I want a certain person dead" (actually, I think it be more like a suggestion that the certain person would be happier to reach the promised heavenly reward sooner rather than later) and Evan, like a good salesman, feeling around for more information and making suggestions as to how it might be accomplished until Trask came up with enough to give Evan an idea for a good path to Trask's goal.  Golly, what a nasty piece of goods Evan Hanley is.

As Evan said, Magda was quite generous with the nightshade.  How much did she keep for the next customer to come along, and what other poisons does she have on hand?

I get the feeling that Magda likes and respects Beth, not to mention feels sorry for her, else she would be far nastier with her. Seems Beth also hit a nerve, that she would marry him despite the curse. Wonder if Magda is surprised that she cares that much, or surprised that Quentin can inspire that kind of loyalty.

Or maybe Magda was thinking about the offspring of a marriage between Quentin and Beth.

I liked the way Magda never said definitely that she loved Sandor.  That would never do.  And I also liked the way Magda was very slow to believe what Beth was saying about Quentin's son - first rejecting it entirely, then gradually being convinced.  It was there in the writing, and it was there in Magda's face.  Nice.

When the pains came to Quentin, as he was standing he grabbed hold of his coat tail and brought it up to his stomach and then put it down again.  It made absolutely no sense whatever that I could see, which I found very satisfying.

I am glad that Magda now realizes how much she screwed up with her curse. She didn't just curse Quentin and his kin, but also Jenny's kin...that made all the difference, for all the good it did though.

Even though I don't blame Magda for wanting to get Quentin for killing Jenny, I always felt she went too far with the curse, condemning a whole line of descendants who had nothing to do with the murder of her sister, Quentin's kin or not. No one should have to suffer for the crimes someone else committed, no matter how closely or distantly related.

It's too bad they couldn't have done sort of a sequel to 1897 and send Chris back there... it might have been poetic justice to have seen him confront the woman responsible for sentencing him to an undeserved cruel fate.

Yes, I thought it was very foolish of Quentin to have stayed at Collinwood on a night when there's a full moon. He could have killed the whole family for crying out loud. He probably wouldn't have shed any tears over Edward and Judith, but there is Jamison, the one person he's always maintained is the one person he loves. How would Quentin have been able
to live with himself if he had killed Jamison in his werewolf state?