Discuss - Ep #0749

[Watching Project]

Robservations #749

[fanforever]

Wow, what a great episode! I LOVE early 1897!

I hate to say this, but Quentin really did deserve Magda's curse. I can hardly believe that he still has a conscience after his little rendevouz with Laura and his dabbling in the black arts. Is it just me, or does Beth seem wiser and stronger in the first few weeks of this storyline than later on? It makes me wonder why she was at all surprised when [spoiler] Angelique told her that Quentin wasn't going to marry her[/spoiler]

Sandor finally showed some backbone in this episode. He doesn't really stand up to Magda, let alone Edward. You can really feel the family grief in this episode. 

The dream sequence was very well-done. I'm glad they brought back Jenny for one last episode, just to have her torment Quentin.

[MagnusTrask]

Now I see why Q was out to kill Jenny now, though.   For years, I hadn't seen the earlier bit where [spoiler]Jenny killed Quentin.[/spoiler] Can you blame him all that much?

[fanforever]

Yes, you can, because Jenny was mad when [spoiler]she killed Quentin[/spoiler]
whereas Quentin should've known better.

[Pansity]

Another excellent episode, with great acting from all and sundry.  Nice Louis Edmonds voiceover.  I don't think there's been that many of them, especially in 1897.

And here we see Magda, immediately running to prepare her revenge.  Jumping in with both feet, essentially making it up as she goes along, since she's only seen this done once, long ago (and from what we learn later, we can't even take this for the full truth).  And here we have the first mention of... COUNT PETOFI.    Of course, the story we get from Magda bears virtually no resemblance to anything we learn later....

Now we see the panic stricken Quentin, locked in his room, unable to sleep.  And Edward, who seems to think there's some switch you can turn in your head to stop thinking about horrible things.  Given how it all played out, AND his earlier memories of Jenny stabbing him, he's probably having a whopping case of PTSD.  Every time he tries to sleep he's probably got two interchangeable loops replaying  endlessly in his mind:  reliving him getting stabbed by Jenny, and reliving  him killing her.

Edward's arrogance is so incredibly Victorian Robber Baron.  Yes, the gypsies probably know, but they're gypsies and Quentin is a COLLINS, so that means that they can do nothing. He also expects Barnabas to buy the story without question, no matter what else he's told, simply because they are all COLLINS'.  He's also very quick to see how he can use Quentin's panic about Magda to rid himself of Quentin permanently.  Quentin is so terrified that he'd agree to do absolutely anything to save himself.

LE does a wonderful job in playing Edward as the right bastard this episode shows him as.  The arrogance goes even a step further with burying Jenny without even telling her family. From beginning to end Edward's handling of the matter does almost as much damage with Magda and Sandor as Quentin's original act.  It was Edward's cover up made her think it was a deliberate murder, and treating the family as he did just fanned the flames.

Interesting how he gets drowsy and hears Jenny -- which we could put down to a guilty conscience if it weren't for the appearance of the doll.  Quentin knew NOTHING about "her babies" or the dolls, so how could he have imagined it?  (LOL it's a 60s era plastic drink n wet doll with the hole in the plastic mouth.  Probably from the same Woolworths as Barnabas' ring.     )  Poor Quentin's at the end of his rope here, when he's begging for even EDWARD'S company rather than be alone.  Very nicely played on the edge of hysterics, I thought at one point he was going to cry.  And Edward the ever compassionate can't even spare a non cutting word.

And now we have the funky dream (should I even bother to check who wrote this episode?)   which could have easily been manufactured from Quentin's guilty conscience.  Edward was conveniently close to hear Quentin screaming, since apparently Q. has the whole West Wing all to himself.

And we cut back to the schemers (who for some reason right now are making me think of Pinky and the Brain).

Quentin sure was uncharacteristically naieve, trusting them like that. I guess like Edward, he couldn't understand genuine family feeling being more important than money.  Or maybe pure terror and lack of sleep rotted his brain....Great cliffhanger ending with Magda making her triumphant announcement, then the look of sheer horror as Quentin realizes he played right into her hands.

Jeannie

[MagnusTrask]

Yes, you can, because Jenny was mad when [spoiler]she killed Quentin[/spoiler]
whereas Quentin should've known better.

Q wasn't judging Jenny's character.   He was trying to prevebt himself from being murdered.

[Pansity]

Q wasn't judging Jenny's character.   He was trying to prevebt himself from being murdered.

I totally agree.  The way it's given to us is that when he returns from zombieland, he remembers everything leading up to losing consciousness from the wound.  Anyone who's ever been attacked or been in a disaster reports flashbacks and reliving the episode over and over, changing the ending in their minds.  And they tend to react disproportionately if put in the same circumstances (note cops shot in the line who overreact if in a shootout again).  Add that together, and my theory on this is that Quentin went into one of those flashbacks/overreactions when Jenny attacked, and was unable to stop even after she was disarmed.  That also seems to be where the writers are steering us when they have him sitting there staring at his hands like they belong to someone else. Maybe someone who knows more about PTSD can chime in here and contribute: I'm curious whether Quentin would have a period in the middle where he wouldn't remember when jenny stopped fighting.  Would he have just reacted, then been in the flashback until Beth yells at him and he sees Jenny is dead?

Jeannie

[MsCriseyde]

I prefer to look at that whole incident much like the murder committed by the protagonist in Dreiser's An American Tragedy. He plans it out rather carefully, but, when the deed is done, the narration is unclear as to the character's intent at the actual moment. There's certainly enough evidence in the preceding episodes to point to a willful act on Q's part, but the way the actual scene is played makes you wonder, and I think that's part of the genius of 1897. I don't think we're ever meant to know for sure because Q himself doesn't know for sure.

[Pansity]

I'm embarrassed to admit that I've never read An American Tragedy, though of course I've heard of it.  The only Dreiser I studied was Sister Carrie, when in Junior High.

From your summary and reading a synopsis, it sounds like just the sort of thing the scriptwriters would -- and did -- lift from on a regular basis. (Another book gets added to my already teetering to be read pile.)  Thanks for bringing it up.  I'd not have thought of it from that point of view, given my lack of familiarity with the book.  The irony of Quentin never knowing for sure exactly whether it was deliberation or panic really appeals to me, especially given his horror after the fact.

I agree totally about the genius of 1897. They don't spoon feed the audience every little thing, but leave it to the audience to interpret.  It also goes without saying that they managed that little magic trick of stealing classic plots and circumstances and combining them in such a way as to feed into timeless universal truths.

Jeannie

[Midnite]

Now I see why Q was out to kill Jenny now, though.   For years, I hadn't seen the earlier bit where [spoiler]Jenny killed Quentin.[/spoiler] Can you blame him all that much?

I do wonder what occurred in the unchanged timeline because it was made pretty clear that if not for Barnabas, Quentin wouldn't have ended up in the cottage originally, which is where he was reunited with Jenny, and where she murdered him.  What caused his murderous intent then, assuming he had one the first time around?

[MsCriseyde]

From your summary and reading a synopsis, it sounds like just the sort of thing the scriptwriters would -- and did -- lift from on a regular basis. (Another book gets added to my already teetering to be read pile.)

I wouldn't put it too near the top of that pile. I read the book in high school, and that's probably the only time I've ever made reference to it. If you've read one book by Dreiser, you've probably exceeded your quota. 

[fanforever]

I do wonder what occurred in the unchanged timeline because it was made pretty clear that if not for Barnabas, Quentin wouldn't have ended up in the cottage originally, which is where he was reunited with Jenny, and where she murdered him. 

I've often thought that it involved Beth in some way, which she wasn't in the version that is shown to us. Maybe

[spoiler]Beth killed Quentin like she does later on in the storyline, but at an earlier date.[/spoiler]

Also, the skeleton in Quentin's room could have been him until Barnabas changed everything.

[Midnite]

fanforever, I was referring to Quentin's motivation to kill Jenny, how he learned she was insane and still at Collinwood, etc.  In the 1897 redo (that includes the 1969 Barnabas), Quentin is out to kill her because she murdered him first.  But in the original timeline this didn't happen, he didn't rise as a zombie, and Angelique didn't bring him back to life.

(teastrainer, snicker!)

[MagnusTrask]

Jeannie--

From the limited data I allowed myself to read re Q's initial death on this thread, I sense that I've got some revelations ahead.  Cool!   My DS gap consists of Zombie Q not exactly knocking politely on the door of the Old House, all about to squash hisself a few gypsies, up until the Trask school fire.   I guess I oughta come back after I fill in that gap, 'cause your remarks seem interesting.

[Pansity]

I wouldn't put it too near the top of that pile. I read the book in high school, and that's probably the only time I've ever made reference to it. If you've read one book by Dreiser, you've probably exceeded your quota. 

Thanks for the heads up.  Sounds like the spot just underneath Tess of the D'Urbervilles might be appropriate.     I still remember how much I hated that book in 11th grade.  Every so often I wonder if I should reread it and see if I've changed my mind -- then I come back to my senses.   

Hardy makes Ibsen look like screwball comedy.....

By the way, thanks Magnus for the kind words about my  posts.  If I've helped get you back into watching project, the more the merrier! 

Jeannie