Author Topic: Discuss - Ep #0744  (Read 4330 times)

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Discuss - Ep #0744
« on: March 25, 2009, 10:34:13 PM »

Offline arashi

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2009, 01:09:56 AM »
Every time I see these episodes I have to wonder if they paused tape to fix Marie's hair or just filmed the scenes in reverse order.

I still don't understand why Dirk told Jenny to wait. To see if the coast was clear so to speak? Why give her the weapon right then when she could use it on anybody? Why not wait until she's at the door to the Old Hous


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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2009, 03:28:38 AM »
I don't think they stopped it.  There was a significant amount of time for the stylist to get the wig off and pull her regular hair back.  Who knows!  They didn't stop tape for much.  BTW...can someone tell me the ep when the stage caught on fire.  I think I have seen it in the early Barney eps recently when Joan and Alexandra were talkling.  It sounded as if you could hear fire extinguishers going off.  They were troupers...sorry to get off topic...

Onto the review...744...

I personally think the magic of this period (of DS) is quite palpable!  Who turned on the lights in the foyer during the opening theme? LOL  "Hello Quentin, have I told you how gorgeous you are lately?" 
"Then how did she get through door by prayer and fasting?" QUENTIN to Judith LOL I love Q's smart ass mouth! And his mouth in general.  It's quite lovely!  :SWOON:  No wonder the Christian community printed tracts against this show. I really wish someone had one of those to post.  Did anyone see the boom when they did the shot through the staircase? 

Barnabas knows…about the children. Such a wonderful constructed plotline.  Someone coughed (a common blooper) when Barney threw the knife in the fire!!   I think almost everyone smoked on that show.  It's seems people in general smoked more back in those days.  I guess people didn't know how bad it is for ya.  Not judging here as I am a former smoker. 

Wonder who's portrait hangs in Josettes room? It's quite lovely.  Wonder what Jonathan really wrote on his letter.  It would have been lovely if things such as those had been saved.  No one realized the phenomenon DS was destined to become.

Good episode.  It was revealing and furthered the plotline!!
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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2009, 06:01:33 AM »
  They didn't stop tape for much.  BTW...can someone tell me the ep when the stage caught on fire.  I think I have seen it in the early Barney eps recently when Joan and Alexandra were talkling.  It sounded as if you could hear fire extinguishers going off.  They were troupers...sorry to get off topic...

"Then how did she get through door by prayer and fasting?" QUENTIN to Judith LOL I love Q's smart ass mouth! And his mouth in general.  It's quite lovely!  :SWOON:  No wonder the Christian community printed tracts against this show. I really wish someone had one of those to post. 

You just made me imagine, say, Selby and Joan Bennett actually on fire, while still delivering their lines, with DC offscreen (audibly!) yelling "Keep going!  Keep going!"

That is a good Q line.  It was about time DS had ironic humor and sarcasm, it had gone for years without.   And I really, really want anti-DS screeds online now.   I want to wallpaper my bedroom in them actually.  I expect that that's a passing whim.
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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2009, 06:45:47 AM »
I think it was Alexandra and Joan in the early Barney black and white eps.  It is on the bloopers DVD...and they are obvously disturbed but trying to hold it together...sorry for  getting off topic!!!
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Offline Midnite

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2009, 05:52:21 PM »
I think it was Alexandra and Joan in the early Barney black and white eps.  It is on the bloopers DVD...and they are obvously disturbed but trying to hold it together...sorry for  getting off topic!!!

If it was Alexandra and Frid, then it was #290.  The story was told at an early Festival (before they were even called that, I imagine) that the small fire was in Alexandra's view but not Frid's, but since the taping was never stopped the actors somehow (barely?) kept it together.  When the extinguishers started Frid began to stumble with his lines and Alexandra seemed to not want to look directly at him-- it's a pretty amusing mess.

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2009, 09:12:13 PM »
Thanks for the heads up. I will go back and watch.  I knew it was Alexandra and someone!
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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2009, 11:01:09 PM »
Marie Wallace is really wonderful.  She is meancing with the knife.  I recall she scared our socks off when we were kids watching.  Jenny is one of those girls that think that once they find a guy and get together they will live happiliy ever after and she can't accept the reality that it didn't.  Barnabas is so clueless.  He bumbles around eveything and needs someone else to put the pieces together. 
you know there's a whole wing that's closed off all the time; the west wing, I go there lots of times

Offline Midnite

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2009, 07:35:52 PM »
I still don't understand why Dirk told Jenny to wait. To see if the coast was clear so to speak?

I'm guessing it was to set up the Sunset Boulevard-ish scene with Jenny's "I'm coming to kill you" closeup.  As if the audience had any doubt by now that Jenny is insane.  [easter_rolleyes]

Quote
Why give her the weapon right then when she could use it on anybody? Why not wait until she's at the door to the Old Hous

Because it might make him look guilty if he disappeared from the big house or failed to complete his duties? [idontknow]

There was a significant amount of time for the stylist to get the wig off and pull her regular hair back.

Was Marie wearing a wig when she played Jenny?  I thought she was one of the few actresses who didn't wear hairpieces, but I could be wrong.  False lashes for days, though.

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Did anyone see the boom when they did the shot through the staircase?

And MW tripped, poor thing.

Quote
Wonder who's portrait hangs in Josettes room? It's quite lovely.

It's interesting that the Old House is filled with portraits of females, but portraits of the male ancestors seem to predominate at Collinwood. Does that make Collinwood masculine and the Old House feminine?

Quote
Wonder what Jonathan really wrote on his letter.
"Dear Mother, ..." Just kidding!   [easter_wink]

At this point, there's no doubt that Quentin was intent on murder.
Q:  She's an animal with a knife.
Judith:  You're an animal with a gun.
Awesome.

Did anyone else find it odd that Q&J were married in a Church?

Now we know where Angelique got her clothing in 1897.  Cuz that first dress that Jenny touched in the trunk was Ang's poison green number.

Offline arashi

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2009, 02:56:25 AM »
I think it was Marie's real hair. I remember reading a story MW related where sh was riding the subway once when a woman recognized her from DS. MW was surprised the woman knew who she was because on the show her hair was always teased out to the ends.

I too found it odd they were married in a church. Wasn't it established that Q just kind of showed up with Jenny? Maybe Jenny insisted. Maybe the family insisted it be a "proper" affair? (No pun intended).

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2009, 08:53:12 PM »
Ok coming in late here.  Interesting that in the voice over, JB refers to Laura letting Jenny out.  Well, I guess, from a certain point of view (as an old Jedi once said....).

Good point about Dirk giving her the knife too soon.  Everyone seems to have their own little delusions that an unpredictable madwoman will do just what they  need her to do.  And once again, roughing her up when a little reason might have gotten her to go quietly.  Does it strike anyone else as odd that Dirk goes through the entrance to the servants quarters (which we know also goes to the kitchen) and comes back with a dagger.  Wouldn't a kitchen knife or butcher knife make more sense?  Most people don't just have daggers lying about for convenient use -- but a fully supplied kitchen on an estate with a gamekeeper would have quite a selection of knives for the dressing of fresh game.

Nice touch with the reference to the "House by the Sea".  Don't remember if they mentioned it by name before in this storyline, but it ties the past and the present together nicely.  And nice type of loyalty Dirk has -- Judith could have been killed because he didn't fess up that Jenny was in the Drawing Room.

But poor Jenny -- was what she was hearing her own delusions, or Laura inspired to egg her on? (I'm thinking her own, but it would be an interesting point of discussion.) Judith was blind lucky she changed her mind and used the candlestick instead of the knife. And Quentin was blind UNLUCKY wanting to come in right then.  Of course, he might have had the pure bad luck for Jenny to have already been in the vestibule when he opened the door, and once again he would have ended with a knife in his chest.  Makes you wonder what Barnabas would have done to bring him back to life THIS time.

Interesting choice in having Jenny go on about her father being a King in India  [spoiler](since that's where it's theorized the Romany originated. Wonder if there was anything to that other than pure coincidence?)[/spoiler]

Another interesting point here with Quentin not coming in the house.  What exactly are we to suppose he saw?  When he opened the door, did he know Jenny had a knife? Did he hear voices, or know someone was in there with her?  Did he shut the door and wait, KNOWING Judith was alone with a madwoman with a knife?  At this point in his character evolution. I think he's quite capable of doing that, without a second thought, if he thought it would save his own skin.

In the scene with Judith, the irresponsible, let everyone else clean up his messes Quentin shows a sense of responsibility, dark, twisted and without compassion though it is.  He caused the problem, he's going to fix it.  Yet Judith's solution is the better one (though maybe he doesn't believe she'll go through with it). Ship Jenny off to an asylum hundreds or more miles away and that should keep him alive.  Maybe that's the key:  Quentin may fully believe that the family (especially Judith) would rather see him dead than chance someone finding out that Jenny was mad. Rid herself of two problems at the same time. It's what I've been calling the "Little Foxes" type mindset. Not killing someone inconvenient oneself, but standing there and letting an external factor do the dirty work for you, and not lift a finger to prevent it.

Scene with Barnabas and Jenny is quite interesting.  Barnabas opens to door to an irrational woman who's looking for Quentin, he knows Quentin's mad wife is on the property, and he doesn't put it together (judging from when we see the sudden flash of fear in his eyes) until she says her name is Jenny?   He's not normally that slow on the uptake.

There's probably been a thread on this somewhere but I do get the feeling that the writers are trying to show Jenny as having multiple personalities.  The way she suddenly forgets she's met Barnabas, and her change in attitude, even in tone of voice.  Marie did a wonderful job playing Jenny as realistically "mad" (or whatever other general term one chooses to use for her mental disturbance).  She has an internal logic, but it doesn't connect with the rest of the world.

Oh just spotted a minor interesting little filming thing [spoiler]The bit where Jenny is singing the lullabye, framed by the spokes of the staircase -- the framing is almost identical (at least to me it looks so) to the shot in 1995 of the mad Quentin shot through the banister.  Artistic preference, or a throwback in 1995 to the poetic justice of Quentin's being driven insane?  Of course, I'm probably giving the show too much credit there.[/spoiler]

Another clue to the whys and wherefores:  Jenny's statement that "they were afraid some harm would come to them" being the reason the babies were taken away.  Are we to connect this with the broken doll (head I think) that was mentioned in an episode?  From what we see, IF Jenny was mad when the children were still with her, though taking them away probably made her much worse, I can't see that they had a choice to keep the babies safe. If she went through one of her violent personality swings, she could have killed one or both of them without even knowing it. So, some partial credit to Edward and Judith.  They had enough humanity to not want Quentin's children killed, even inadvertantly.

On the marrying in a church. Maybe it's a delusion of Jenny's maybe not.  It might have been the quickest way to get married in that time and place, and everything we know about Quentin points to him marrying her on impulse, whereever they were. And in the later scene with Barnabas Jenny mentioned them being married two months before going to see his family.  Presumably they were travelling around during that time, from the way Jenny takes Barnabas for a bellhop.  Nice period touch, the wife wouldn't deal with money, it was the husband's job (not to mention he's the one with the fat allowance from grandmamamamama).

The "animal with a knife" "animal with a gun" scene is a good one.  Also nice foreshadowing of what comes later.  I notice that she didn't resist him very hard when he moves her arm to go by.

Barnabas sure developed a sudden skill for knowing what would motivate Jenny. Makeup and girly things and pretty dresses.  And LOL on Dirk and Quentin's verbal pissing match.

I DO think that's Marie's hair by the way.  I think she mentioned something in her book about teasing it up to play Jenny.

Poor poor Jenny, primping and all vulnerable and hopeful for her  meeting with the "animal with a gun".   And does anyone else wonder how Quentin knew which room is Josette's room?


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Offline fanforever

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2009, 10:29:22 PM »
Every mischievous child in Collinwood seems to know Josette and where her room is just by stories being circled around the family over and over again. I wouldn't be surprised if Quentin and David have a connection there.

On Marie's hair, I think it's her own. Besides the interviews that she's given mentioning that her hair was teased to the ends,
[spoiler]the one episode in the Leviathan period where MW plays Jenny and Megan, Megan's hair seems a bit more poofier than normal.[/spoiler]

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Offline Midnite

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2009, 06:52:59 PM »
I think it was Marie's real hair. I remember reading a story MW related where sh was riding the subway once when a woman recognized her from DS. MW was surprised the woman knew who she was because on the show her hair was always teased out to the ends.

Which still raises the question (yours, actually [ghost_grin]), did they need extra time to comb all that teasing out?  When I teased my hair back in the day (a rattail comb was my friend), I remember it taking ages to get out all the snarls. I am not going to provide photos, so don't ask! I don't think the ep was taped in reverse because Marie has said she created the pincurl bangs overnight.

And btw, I would bet money that Roger's hair was teased when he played Dirk.

Does it strike anyone else as odd that Dirk goes through the entrance to the servants quarters (which we know also goes to the kitchen) and comes back with a dagger.  Wouldn't a kitchen knife or butcher knife make more sense?  Most people don't just have daggers lying about for convenient use --

Since it's the servants quarters, maybe Dirk's room is back there too.  And I definitely think Dirk would own a dagger.  It's scary to think what else he might keep in his room. [ghost_tongue2]

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Another interesting point here with Quentin not coming in the house.  What exactly are we to suppose he saw?  When he opened the door, did he know Jenny had a knife? Did he hear voices, or know someone was in there with her?  Did he shut the door and wait, KNOWING Judith was alone with a madwoman with a knife?

I think that seeing Jenny and not having anything for self-defense (which for cowardly Quentin means a gun) was probably enough for him to cut and run.

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There's probably been a thread on this somewhere but I do get the feeling that the writers are trying to show Jenny as having multiple personalities.  The way she suddenly forgets she's met Barnabas, and her change in attitude, even in tone of voice.

But what we don't see in those changes in attitude and voice are separate and distinct personalities.  Jenny's confusion and forgetfulness (which are not the result of blackouts) and her mood swings, delusions, paranoia, withdrawal (in #745: [spoiler]Jenny didn't seem at all unhappy with her exile to the tower),[/spoiler] and in particular her hallucinations seem to me to be more in line more with schizophrenia than to dissociative identity (multiple personality) disorder.  And as I mentioned before, her view of an unintegrated "good self" and "self bad" (#719) are more likely the symptoms of a personality disorder than DID/MPD.

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Barnabas sure developed a sudden skill for knowing what would motivate Jenny.  Makeup and girly things and pretty dresses.
Barnabas the sexist.  [ghost_rolleyes]

Do you suppose that Edith knew about mad Jenny and her babies?

Offline Taeylor Collins

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2009, 01:32:38 AM »
This is a bit off topic:  However, Barney had me fumming in his early days with his sexist remarks towards Julia.  I know he is a man of the 18 century but I didn't like it~~~at all! [ghost_mad]
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Re: Discuss - Ep #0744
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2009, 02:31:10 AM »
Happy 1200!
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