Author Topic: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?  (Read 11325 times)

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Offline Nelson Collins

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2008, 05:03:06 PM »
It's hidden in the grandfather clock ....:D
There's not a man on my ottoman, there hasn't been one in weeks.
There's not a man on my ottoman, he's gone off to fight the Greeks.

Offline Joeytrom

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2008, 05:11:55 PM »
I finally went looking and found the article.    Here it is in full:

WHY I THINK DARK SHADOWS ATTRACTS GAYS AND OTHER MINORITIES.

Many characters on Dark Shadows fall into minority groups.  many of these people are in minority groups due to an affliction they have, whether it be vampirism, werewolfism, possessions, etc.  Many of the fans seem to be able to identify with these characters for whatever affliction they may have, or for whatever minority group they may belong.

Certainly handicapped people & obese people feel the affliction mentioned above,  If they could cure their blindness, eating disorder, paralysis, etc., they could live normal lives, and these very people see that if the characters could cure their vampirism, werewolfism, etc., they could have normal lives as well.

Gays I think tend to identify with Barnabas for many reasons.  Here is a man who may not like what he is but has to submit to it.  I think many gay people feel the same way about their sexuality.  he is a man that despite what he is has been able to gain the love, trust, & friendship of all those around him even the ones who know of his "secret". gays have a "secret" and they long for the kind of relationships Barnabas has with his family.  The want the acceptance he is able to have, despite what he is.  Barnabas is also a hero.  He is able to overcome his "problem" to do great things.  he is also able to achieve almost all of his goals, or nearly so, that he is successful, even if his goal is just barely missed being 100% achieved.  Something we can all identity with.  And love... Barnabas Collins & love.  Gays I think are really identified with this aspect.  gays are not known for their long term relationships.  Of course this sometimes happens, but often as not our love affairs do not last that long.  Neither do Barnabas'.  For one reason or another, often due to the actions of others, he loses the love he has sought.  he loses it, & we can not only identify with what he is feeling, but often by the same actions.  How often have we felt we have lost the love of our lives due to someone else's actions?  Yet, barnaba is able to go on with his life, for better or worse, & i think that is something we all wish we could do, or at least hope we are doing.

I also think the fans identify with the ones who get hurt, are taken away, the object of someone else's love, & we, like them, swept away like Josette, etc.

Certainly the gays & handicapped alike envy Angelique.  What we could do if we had her powers!  We could make ourselves whole.  We would be cured.  We would destroy our enemies.  We could get the ones we love.  Then again, Angeliques' power betrays her, & she winds up not getting what she desperately wanted.  How many of us feel this way?  That no matter what lengths we went to, no matter how good we planned, things for one reason or another just didnt work out & we get screwed in the end.

Gays will certaily feel affinity for Elizabeth Collins Stoddard, hiding that "secret" for 18 years.

And what of Julia Hoffman?  Certainly gays know what she must be going through every time she looks at Barnabas with those "I love you" eyes & he simply ignores her.  Don't we all have stories like that to tell from our own lives?  You do everything in the world for a person & they ignore the fact that you love them.  And what of the other side of the coin?
Barnabas is fully aware of how Julia feels, and yet he ignores it because he she is just not exactly what he is looking for in a relationship.  He is not attracted to her.  He has been hurt by another lost love and has not gotten over that.  He thinks the world of Julia and would do almost anything for her; she is his greatest friend, but...love, the way Julia wants it, is never to be...probably.  I think many gays have this sort of thing in their lives.  There's always someone who wants you that, even though you may be desperate for love yourself, you simply are not attracted to them in that way, & probably never will be.  Perhaps you will be someday when you have gotten over the broken heart you're nursing from your lover of three years ago, but certainly not now.

These are some of the main reasons I feel that DARK SHADOWS attracts gays & other minorities.  The show may have bad sets, at times horrific make up, blown lines, sorry acting, shitty video quality, but what has always attracted the fans has been the mood, the tone, the writing, THE STORY.  There's the ticket.  The Story.  We see things in it that reflect things in our own lives, often to a frightening close proximity.  I think handicapped persons & gays especially fall into thses categories for some of the reasons listed above.  These groups often fall into fandom of T.V. shows & movies, but a high number to seem to be attracted to DARK SHADOWS.  I think the show not only lets you escape from your own world, but lets you live out part of your world in a way you wish you yourself could.


Offline Nelson Collins

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2008, 06:04:12 PM »
See, I told you it was in the grandfather clock ....  [snow_grin]
There's not a man on my ottoman, there hasn't been one in weeks.
There's not a man on my ottoman, he's gone off to fight the Greeks.

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2008, 08:35:33 PM »
I think the sets and production values were great considering their workload.

Anyway, well said, and you could broaden that out to severely alienated people of all kinds.   Now, people of subsequent generations get the impression that the 1960s was dominated by hippies and war protests and drugs and psychadelic music, but that was all an underground "fringe" thing, formed by a lot of kids who grew up isolated in flat, empty, conformist suburbia, a culture that could be brutal, behind closed doors, in how it tried to enforce that conformity on their kids.

The Barnabas story was very affecting for these people, too.    It's too bad the counter-culture didn't connect with gays more than it did back then.

"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor

David

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2008, 09:05:54 PM »
I'm sorry, but that essay is a lot of shameful, self hating shit.
Everyone I know is perfectly happy to be gay.

As kids we were in the closet, as is Barnabas, so I can see that aspect of relating to it.
But all that self hating crap is for the birds.

And I know PLENTY of long term gay couples.

SHAME on that writer.
I met him a few times.
He told me that he thought all DS fans had "something
wrong" with them.
Shame on him.

David

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2008, 09:39:58 PM »
I'm sorry, but that essay is a lot of shameful, self hating shit.
Everyone I know is perfectly happy to be gay.

As kids we were in the closet, as is Barnabas, so I can see that aspect of relating to it.
But all that self hating crap is for the birds.

And I know PLENTY of long term gay couples.

SHAME on that writer.
I met him a few times.
He told me that he thought all DS fans had "something
wrong" with them.
Shame on him.

David... respectfully...

That last bit about DS fans having something wrong with them, that's bad... but I don't get your hostility toward the rest of what he said.    Most of what was said came out of real personal feelings, which he then generalized to include gays overall, and if he generalized too much, then fine, he made a mistake.    You're making sweeping generalizations based on your personal experience, too.

"Everyone I know is perfectly happy to be gay."   In this society?   Where so many different kinds of people are shamed over what they are?   Everyone you personally know isn't everybody.    And we're not talking about grown-ups who have made their adjustments to life and society, but kids growing up on DS.   The most troubling thing here is that you seem to feel it's a crime or a sign of something horribly wrong with a person to be insecure, or to be "unhappy".   It's not.   

There wasn't self-hatred in the article.   You know this person to some extent, so you have that to go by, but it didn't make its way into print.    I just saw his acknowledgement of feelings of isolation and alienation.   And should someone be attacked for "self-hatred"?     I'd think sympathy is the right response to that, and maybe support.

My response to the comments about gays not having long-term relationships was to say... all groups have that problem.    If gays were the exception, that would be remarkable.
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor

David

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2008, 10:04:02 PM »
Magnus, just as respectfully,
because you're a good guy.

the whole idea that gays are unhappy to be who we are is a stereotype that perpetuates those very feelings.

The gay rights movement began in NYC in 1969 when gays at the Stonewall Bar stood up to police brutality & said "no more!"
Those rioters, some of whom were drag queens, stood up because they liked who they were & were tired of being told that they were inferior.
20 years later, a writer speculated that they actually rioted because Judy Garland had just died.
Gimme a break!

It's time to stop perpetuating the myth that we're all unhappy. 

May I suggest that you check out the new film Small Town Gay Bar, out on DVD & airing on Showtime.
Even in the Bible Belt, gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transgenders
are challenging that myth.

Getting Off Soap Box,
David

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2008, 10:47:17 PM »
Quote
Magnus, just as respectfully,
because you're a good guy.

Thanks!  Back at you.

The truth lies inbetween.    I can tell.    When different people are telling me different or opposite heartfelt things that come out of their personal lives, both have to be right.   

All I had to do was not to like sports in school, and that led to building contempt and hounding and harrassment, which turned into a tidal wave of anti-gay epithets by high school.    I was never gay, and please don't think I'm saying that it would have been more justified if it were done to someone who was.    My point is that it doesn't take much to trigger this sort of thing, and some very bad effects from this will be with me to some extent for my whole life.   So, people get damaged.    A sense of inferiority can become so ingrained that it's a wound that never completely heals.     You get older, you know your worth eventually, but that dark area is always lurking someplace.   

I'm vaguely aware of the background you're giving me.    Millions of people are unhappy to be who they are, or what they think they are because of conditioning from others.     I think your position and Joeytrom's need to be amalgamated.     
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor

David

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2008, 01:08:21 AM »
Magnus, I'll post a thoughtful response to you tomorrow~~some thought required.

But one thing needs to be clarified right away:
Joey Trom, who I knew during my NYC days, is not the author of that essay.
Joey merely posted it at the board..

David

Offline Midnite

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2008, 03:47:09 AM »
David,

Another clarification-- the fan you're speaking about published the article in his zine but did not write it.  Gothick did.

David

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2008, 05:44:16 AM »
OOOOOPS!
open mouth, insert foot!

I do recall now  that it was Gothick who said he authored the essay, many posts back.
No disrespect meant to him, he's one of the best people here.

If he's willing, I'd be curious to know what Gothick was going through when he wrote the piece, & what changes he underwent over the years.
Here at the Board, he certainly comes across as someone who's comfortable in his own skin.

Now, the publisher of that zine, that's another story.
I recall him well from 80s fests.
He really told me that DS fans, and gays in general, all had "something wrong" with them.
The gay activist in me fumes at attitudes like that, even more so when it comes from someone gay!

David 

Offline Joeytrom

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2008, 03:03:12 PM »
Looking through "The Secret Room", it wasn't as good as I remembered after all these years.  It was a thin zine with one short fan fiction and two essays about gays & DS.  The second essay is too long to write & I will have to have that scanned at work as I dont have a scanner at home anymore.

There was also a commentary from the publisher complaining that the Sci Fi Channel had DS, as not too many fans had access to it, and DS should have been placed on another station.

The publisher made it appear he wrote that essay on gays & DS. 

I see now why there never wasn't a second issue.

Offline Gothick

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2008, 04:50:41 PM »
Just a further clarification--that article wasn't by me.  Sorry for the confusion.  (I was on the Boards briefly last night and tried to post that this wasn't my essay, but my attempt to post bounced due to a stupid bit of software wank.)

I'm pretty sure that the article Joey posted WAS by the editor of the zine.  I vaguely recall having seen this somewhere before.  In an academic book published ca. 1999 on media fandoms, fan fiction, "slash," etc. there was an article about the gay contingent in DS fandom that may have cited some of this, which may have been where I saw it before--I honestly can't recall.

cheers, G.

Offline Gothick

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2008, 04:54:07 PM »
I'm looking at the article again and laughing--I would never use language such as "we get screwed in the end" in something meant for print publication, even in a draft.

Note to Joeytron:  do you own a copy of the zine itself?  I've never seen how it looked.

G.

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Dark Shadows: Why Such a Huge Gay Following?
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2008, 05:03:47 PM »
I think it's the author who's hiding in the secret room, and will vanish once he's discovered....
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor