Author Topic: I was a Collins and I didn't even know it  (Read 1234 times)

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Offline Dr. Eric Lang

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I was a Collins and I didn't even know it
« on: May 01, 2002, 03:08:28 AM »
I realize that with all the serious fans on this board this topic has probably already been discussed, but I'm relatively new here and would like to bring it up if you don't mind.

We know of course why Naomi, Judith and Elizabeth all look alike - they are all Collins family members. However, how does one account for the fact that Mrs. Johnson looks like Abigail Collins? Or the fact that Willie looks so much like Carl Collins? Why would Julia Hoffman look like the Countess Natalie duPres?

My speculation:

Mrs. Johnson: I would hazzard a guess that a Collins male, perhaps Quentin in 1840, had an extra-marital affair which produced an illegitimate offspring, perhaps one he never even knew about. This offspring may have been the direct ancestor of Minerva Trask, which would explain her resemblance to the Collins family, and also why her daughter Charity looks like a Collins. Minerva's maternal line may also have been the ancestral line of Mrs. Johnson.

Willie Loomis: I would speculate that Pansy Faye wasn't the first "good time girl" that Carl Collins spent time with. He, too, may have had an illegitimate child, who in turn may have been the ancestor of Willie Loomis. (It doesn't seem as likely that Desmond would have had such an affair in 1840, considering his superior morals compared to Carl, but this is also possible.)

Julia Hoffman: We know that the Countess duPres was Andre's sister; so their parents were duPres. But perhaps the Countess had some family on her mother's side who weren't so well off as the duPres; they may have fallen in with a band of gypsies, resulting eventually in Magda, which explains her resemblance to the Countess. While it seems unlikely that the respectable and successful Dr. Hoffman was descended from gypsies, she too may have been descended from the Countess' maternal line, explaining the resemblance there.

The Collins family tree is certainly a tangled one. Have you any theories of your own about them? :-X

Offline Gerard

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Re: I was a Collins and I didn't even know it
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2002, 06:11:57 AM »
Boy, that's a tough one.  The one thing I'm grateful for is that all the other times they time-traveled (save for PT), they dropped that whole they-look-like-the-ones-we-love-from-our-own-time schtick.  

Gerard

Offline VAM

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Re: I was a Collins and I didn't even know it
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2002, 06:48:50 AM »
Quote


The Collins family tree is certainly a tangled one. Have you any theories of your own about them? :-X

The Collins Family Tree is nicely maped out on pages 90 & 91 in Kathryn Leigh Scott's DARK SHADOWS ALMANAC (millennium edition) for those who are interested.
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Offline jennifer

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Re: I was a Collins and I didn't even know it
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2002, 08:01:43 AM »
Quote

The Collins Family Tree is nicely maped out on pages 90 & 91 in Kathryn Leigh Scott's DARK SHADOWS ALMANAC (millennium edition) for those who are interested.

i was looking at it today because the other day I think
Elizabeth said Daniel was her great great grandfather
and i thought that can't be right if i read it right makes him her great great great great grandfather as it goes
Liz, Jamison,Edward unkownchild, Gabriel, Daniel
this is acording to the tree in DS almanac(30th)Does anyone know?

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Offline Dr. Eric Lang

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Re: I was a Collins and I didn't even know it
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2002, 02:25:20 AM »
Quote

i was looking at it today because the other day I think
Elizabeth said Daniel was her great great grandfather
and i thought that can't be right if i read it right makes him her great great great great grandfather as it goes
Liz, Jamison,Edward unkownchild, Gabriel, Daniel
this is acording to the tree in DS almanac(30th)Does anyone know?

jenniferI i told you i hate housework :o)


Actually, Daniel would have been Elizabeth's Great, Great Great Grandfather: Father is Jamison, Grandfather is Edward, Great Grandfather is (whoever Edward's father was), Great Great Grandfather would have been Gabriel, not Daniel.

However, I've often wondered about the mystery children of Gabriel and Edith. Is it possible that Edith was actually the MOTHER of Edward, Judith, Quentin and Carl - and not actually their Grandmother, as they believed? After all, considering Edith's involvement with Gerard Stiles a.k.a. Judah Zachary, it's reasonable to assume she was up to no good. Those four children may have been the offspring of Gerard/Judah.

Offline Luciaphile

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Re: I was a Collins and I didn't even know it
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2002, 03:47:16 AM »
Quote

However, I've often wondered about the mystery children of Gabriel and Edith. Is it possible that Edith was actually the MOTHER of Edward, Judith, Quentin and Carl - and not actually their Grandmother, as they believed? After all, considering Edith's involvement with Gerard Stiles a.k.a. Judah Zachary, it's reasonable to assume she was up to no good. Those four children may have been the offspring of Gerard/Judah.


The problem with that is that Gerard and his "guest" weren't along long enough to sire four kids on Edith.  She and Gabriel, did however, have three children of their own and it's more than plausible that one of those went on to sire Edward, Judith, Quentin, and Carl.

Luciaphil
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Offline jennifer

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Re: I was a Collins and I didn't even know it
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2002, 08:47:06 PM »
Quote


Actually, Daniel would have been Elizabeth's Great, Great Great Grandfather: Father is Jamison, Grandfather is Edward, Great Grandfather is (whoever Edward's father was), Great Great Grandfather would have been Gabriel, not Daniel.

However, I've often wondered about the mystery children of Gabriel and Edith. Is it possible that Edith was actually the MOTHER of Edward, Judith, Quentin and Carl - and not actually their Grandmother, as they believed? After all, considering Edith's involvement with Gerard Stiles a.k.a. Judah Zachary, it's reasonable to assume she was up to no good. Those four children may have been the offspring of Gerard/Judah.



You're right Chris about Daniel
but i also think Edith was their grandmother as i believe in 1840 her children were teens .

jennifer
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Offline Dr. Eric Lang

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Re: I was a Collins and I didn't even know it
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2002, 02:36:38 AM »
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The problem with that is that Gerard and his "guest" weren't along long enough to sire four kids on Edith.  She and Gabriel, did however, have three children of their own and it's more than plausible that one of those went on to sire Edward, Judith, Quentin, and Carl.

Luciaphil


But we don't know how it worked out in the original timeline - before Julia and Barnabas changed history in 1840. We know that Gerard must have succeeded in his plan to destroy Quentin as the Collins estate went to Gabriel/Edith instead of Quentin or Tad. If you will recall, Edith was a "follower" of Judah/Gerard's and had no love for Gabriel by the time Gerard came along promising her power. Also, Gerard arranged to have himself made heir to Collinwood. In the original version of this timeline their plans must have worked, because Edith winds up with the family fortune in the end. Who knows?

Offline Luciaphile

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Re: I was a Collins and I didn't even know it
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2002, 04:46:47 AM »
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But we don't know how it worked out in the original timeline - before Julia and Barnabas changed history in 1840. We know that Gerard must have succeeded in his plan to destroy Quentin as the Collins estate went to Gabriel/Edith instead of Quentin or Tad. If you will recall, Edith was a "follower" of Judah/Gerard's and had no love for Gabriel by the time Gerard came along promising her power. Also, Gerard arranged to have himself made heir to Collinwood. In the original version of this timeline their plans must have worked, because Edith winds up with the family fortune in the end. Who knows?


But Gerard had that whole thing going on for Daphne.  All of which was happening independently of Barnabas and Julia.  It's pretty apparent that while Gerard slept with Edith, he got bored and then moved on.  And he pretty much set Edith up to be killed.  

As for how Edith got the fortune/survived, there's the whole Oddson essay that does a pretty good job of solving the continuity conundrum.  

I'm kind of hipped on the whole Edith thing (been writing a story about her and Judith for over a year).

Luciaphil
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