OT - Count Dracula-Louis Jourdan & Related Observations

[Philippe Cordier]

The topic of "Dracula" movies comes up from time to time - about two years ago it was mentioned that the 1977 BBC version "Count Dracula" with Louis Jourdain had been released on DVD by an educational division of the BBC.  By the time this information was mentioned on this forum, the DVD unfortunately was no longer available.  I had somehow missed the production when it originally aired - something I regretted ever since as I had savored Stoker's novel.  This BBC version was usually said to be the most faithful version to the novel unlike nearly every previous filmed version.  Dan Curtis' very well-done 1974 TV version starring Jack Palance with a screenplay by Richard Matheson came reasonably close.  Curtis and Matheson borrowed a theme from "Dark Shadows" and had Lucy Westenra the reincarnation of Dracula's lost love of centuries ago.  Though this theme is not present in the novel, I thought it made for an interesting element in the television adaptation.

The only other version before or since reasonably close to the novel was the Jess Franco "El Conde Dracula" ("Count Dracula") starring Christopher Lee.  The beginning and ending of that film followed the novel closely but the film deteriorates badly midway through - apparently the production ran out of money.

Someone on the forum suggested that I check e-bay for a pirated version of the Louis Jourdain "Count Dracula," but I was uncomfortable with the idea and uncomfortable with the whole ebay concept.  Just before Christmas, though, I ended up following a link to a guy's website who sells copies of it both from his website and through e-bay.  The price was reasonable (about $10) and no bidding was necessary, so I decided to go for it.  There are no indications that the film will ever be released on DVD in the U.S., so there is no other possibility of ever seeing it.  Having waited 29 years in vain, I decided I'd go for it this time.

I'm glad I did.  The quality is quite good, better than some cheap videos I've seen released (among them the aforementioned Christopher Lee "Count Dracula").  The picture quality is, IMO, about the same as you would get taping something on video in EP.  It's not too dark like some cheap video but there is a certain shimmering/wavy quality to some items in the background at times.  The sound quality is on the low side, though I've experienced that on a number of expensive, commercially produced DVDs (e.g, "The Others" with Nicole Kidman).

There are a few deviations from the novel (supporting character omissions, etc.) but on the whole this is very close to the novel, down to much of the dialogue coming straight from the book.  The biggest departure from the text, for me, was Jourdain's portrayal of Dracula.  He captures a very creep quality, but not the combination of fury and vigor one senses from the novel (and which Christopher Lee excells at).  The sets are excellent, evocative (interiors are shot on video, like DS), and there is location shooting in Whitby.  There are a few scenes that are eerier than any other Dracula movie, IMO.

This reminds me that I got the DS Collection 1 DVD set for Christmas, and I can't wait to re-watch the early Barnabas scenes.  The scenes where Barnabas meets Maggie in the coffee shop and soon begins preying on her reminded me a lot of "Dracula" when I first saw them a few years ago.  I thought they were among the eeriest scenes ever on DS.

-Vlad

[Mark Rainey]

I'm a big fan of the BBC/Louis Jourdan Dracula. Your observations pretty much reflect mine, especially the eerieness of many of the scenes. It's my favorite production of Drac, bar none, despite the fact that Jourdan isn't anything like the novel's depiction, at least physically. Regardless, he plays the part with just the right flair. Frank Finlay also makes the best Van Helsing since Peter Cushing. I detest Anthony Hopkins' portrayal in the Coppola farce.

I only have it on VHS, and it's been years since I've watched it. I used to look at it pretty regularly at Halloween, and it's a tradition I need to renew. I might not wait till this coming Halloween to start, though.

Yep, Dracula and The Great Pumpkin -- pretty much the perfect Halloween double-feature.

[Midnite]

Hi, Vlad.  I'm glad you finally got to see it!

Someone on the forum suggested that I check e-bay for a pirated version of the Louis Jourdain "Count Dracula," but I was uncomfortable with the idea and uncomfortable with the whole ebay concept.

Are you sure it was here?  I honestly don't recall anyone suggesting this, though one cousin did recommend the tapes and service of a particular DS fan and provided contact info.  I used the Forum's search engine and entered ebay and words relating to this movie but only retrieved this topic. 

[PennyDreadful]

  I've been wanting to watch this for awhile.  Are there any more copies for sale where you got it Vlad?

  Mark, I agree, Hopkins' Van Helsing was awful.  Peter Cushing and Edward Van Sloan were always my faves.

[Philippe Cordier]

Someone on the forum suggested that I check e-bay for a pirated version of the Louis Jourdain "Count Dracula," but I was uncomfortable with the idea and uncomfortable with the whole ebay concept.

Are you sure it was here?  I honestly don't recall anyone suggesting this, though one cousin did recommend the tapes and service of a particular DS fan and provided contact info.  I used the Forum's search engine and entered ebay and words relating to this movie but only retrieved this topic.

I didn't take time to search for when the topic was discussed, but I thought a poster had suggested I check ebay (they probably didn't use the term "pirated copy.")  However, that could have been in a private IM or even e-mail subsequent to the forum discussion.

A current friend told me I had purchased a "pirated copy" so that term was on my mind - it bothered me a bit to hear that, but I do justify it because the damn thing isn't for sale anywhere, and 30 years is a long time to wait for it to appear on the U.S. market!

PennyDreadful, I would suggest you go to ebay and enter "Count Dracula" + "Louis Jourdan" or "BBC".  You may get a few results, but the one I bought is the one charging $9.99 (no bidding required) and shipping from a U.S. location.  There may be others.

Mark Rainey, I also characterize the Coppola version as a "farce."  It upsets me that that version is all that so many people know of "Dracula," and it completely subverts Stoker's themes, among other travesties, while claiming to be "Bram Stoker's Dracula".

Midnite - I'm embarrassed that I didn't double check the spelling of Louis JOURDAN's last name.     Is it possible to correct the spelling in the topic line of this thread?  Many thanks if it's not too much trouble!

 

[Josette]

I wonder if that's the one.  It's been s-o-o-o-o long since I've seen any of the Dracula movies.  But, once upon a time, I remember one that seemed to follow the book a lot better than any of the others had.  With your comments, it seems that this might have been the one.  I'll have to see if I can manage to see it again someday.

[Gothick]

I saw a friend's VHS copy of the Louis Jourdain Dracula about ten years ago, and liked it well enough.  I still think the physicality of Dracula as described by Stoker was best captured by Lee in that Jess Franco film.  Several of Franco's movies have been restored and issued in pristine DVD editions recently; maybe they'll do this one, as well.  There are some funny stories about that production.  Lee did a movie for Franco that verged on softcorn pornography (I think it was Justine) as a trade-off because he wanted to film Dracula properly so badly, or so he said in interviews in the early 70s, after the fact.

I might have to get one of those bootleg discs myself, Vlad. Thanks for mentioning this! There are a number of movies unlikely ever to be released in the US (such as Grayson's French film) that one can find in good bootleg editions on eBay.

G.

[Raineypark]

I completely understand the desire to have a particular book that's no longer in print, or a film that's never been released for home viewing.  But is it really justification for buying a bootleg copy?

I think we lie to ourselves that the real theft has been committed by the source selling us the product and that absolves us of any blame.

Would any of us who write fan fiction think it okay if others sold copies of our work?

If Mark Rainey threw away a story he wasn't happy with, would it be okay for someone to steal it from his garbage and offer it on E-bay?

Would any of us here think it okay if someone copied and sold reproductions of Heather's art work?

Just a thought........

[PennyDreadful]

  I know what you mean Rainey, but it's hard to resist when you can't find it anywhere else.  I'm sure people would rather have the official copy from the source, but if it isn't available from there and someone else has it...well...   I know.  It still doesn't make it right.

  I recently bought 'The Thing That Wouldn't Die' (most certianly the basis for the Judah Zachery's head storyline on DS).  When I got it in, I discovered it was a bootleg (in fact, it wouldn't play on my DVD player because I guess the player is too old to play this burned DVR).  Yeah, I felt a little weird about it  being a bootleg (not to mention steamed that it wouldn't play on my DVD player), but I simply couldn't find it elsewhere and I REALLY wanted to see it.  I got to watch it on a friend's player BTW.

  Before DS was widely released, the only way too watch it, if it wasn't syndicated in your area, was through bootlegs.  I wouldn't have seen DS originally if it weren't for VHS bootlegs in the 80s.  That doesn't justify it, but there you have it.  If demand is strong enough, and the supply isn't there from the creators, then bootlegs are inevitable.

[Mark Rainey]

If demand is strong enough, and the supply isn't there from the creators, then bootlegs are inevitable.

That's very true. I'm no expert on copyright law, but to the best of my understanding, in the case of a foreign production where no domestic version exists, such as the BBC Dracula, the product is not subject to the same protection as properties that are readily available. In other words, an "unauthorized" copy of the BBC Dracula is not protected as would be a copy of, say, Spielberg's War of the Worlds. Someone who knows the details of the law better than I (Darren?) may chime in here.

Frankly, if after 30 years, a product of mine has not been commercially distributed, and I'm not making anything off of it from any other venue, and there are no plans to make it available (all of which appear to be the case with the BBC Dracula), then I would probably thank my lucky stars that someone is distributing it to the public. That's just me, though. In such a case, I would certainly prefer that the distributor in question -ask- me if it's OK; and if they want to sell it badly enough, they could work out a binding contract with me.

Regardless, the reality is that lots of foreign products are not available here and never will be, and that's where international copyright law gets rather iffy. I'll tell you right off the bat that I have over the years picked up a lot of "unauthorized" Godzilla movies, the original versions of which have not been domestically available. There's no statute against -owning- them. (Producing them may be another matter.) However, in recent months, many of these have been made available, through Sony, and I'm the first in line to buy them. Maybe I'm in a minority in that regard; I dunno. Especially as a creator, I want to be compensated for my work. On the other than, if, as a creator, I'm getting nada because a studio has buried the property, I might favor it seeing the light of day, especially if there's a demand, with the idea that that very demand might increase the property's value -- thus increasing the chances of a legitimate release that will net me a real profit.

That may sound like a lot of hooey, but it's not. It's exactly what happened with a lot of anime from Japan. Consequently, it's become a big market.

[Philippe Cordier]

I completely understand the desire to have a particular book that's no longer in print, or a film that's never been released for home viewing.  But is it really justification for buying a bootleg copy?

I think we lie to ourselves that the real theft has been committed by the source selling us the product and that absolves us of any blame.

I'm writing this without taking time to ponder each of the situations you describe and how similar or not they may be to mine, but my concern has been whether I am depriving an artist, author, or corporation of compensation for their work.  Since their work is not available (unlike music that some people download through file-sharing, for example), I am not depriving them of payment.  I've looked into copyright questions through previous paralegal studies and recently in my library studies, and I remember that to be one of the crucial points librarians must consider in deciding whether to duplicate materials for student use.  Not precisely the same situation as my current one, but one I used as a guideline.

Gothick (and Mark R.), I think too that Christopher Lee is better suited physically for the role.  One thing I appreciated in the Jourdan production was that it was faithful to the novel's Christian perspective, something I had taken without much thought when I read it at age 12 but am more cognizant of now.  Yes, Dracula is aligned with the devil and metaphorically with the anti-Christ - he is a destroyer of both body and soul, which is why the staking of Lucy is so crucial (it's not a "gang bang" as the writer of Coppola's version has stated).  There are hints of Satan worship in the Jourdan version.  I also found interesting Mina's temptation by the vampiresses and the circle of protection Van Helsing draws around her.  I had completely forgotten this from the book but re-read the passage, where Van Helsing refers to the "Holy Circle."  At the same time, I have been reading about the same concept of a protective circle in "pagan" spellcraft.

Midnite, merci for your correction.  (Louis Jourdan, like Jonathan Frid, probably appreciates his fans spelling his name correctly.)

[Gothick]

Re bootlegs:  I only buy them when there's no available legit release.  IF there's a legit release, then I want that, because the quality is USUALLY so much head and shoulders above a boot (the commercial release of the 1990 DS shows that this is not always the case).

Films I have bought on boot recently include DEVILS OF DARKNESS, a 1965 British horror B-movie (great role for Carole Gray) that I doubt even had a US release back in the day, and DIONYSUS IN '69, a film of a unique living theatre production of the tragedy by Euripides that had a limited art house release way back when.  The disc I purchased came from Athens Greece and I think it was actually a region 0 DVD release, but I am not sure.

I'm currently looking for something called SIMON, KING OF THE WITCHES, which was filmed in L. A. circa 1970, and stars Andrew Prine.  It came out on commercial VHS in the 1980s and is long OP.  If I buy a used copy of the tape (the cheaper ones are priced at around $49.95) the only guy making money on the transaction is the dealer; nobody associated with the movie sees that money.  So I'm hoping I can find a bootleg DVD transfer. It's possible that a legit DVD is in the works for this film.  Andrew Prine did an interview about it in the current issue of SHOCK magazine (which I strongly recommend to fans of genre filmmaking) which makes me wonder whether something might be brewing on this front.

G.

[PennyDreadful]

Gothick, I too am on the lookout for Simon King of the Witches.  I actually played the old radio trailer for the film on my radio show today!

[Gothick]

Ah, Penny dear, great minds truly think alike!

G.