Author Topic: Discuss - Ep #0161  (Read 1089 times)

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Discuss - Ep #0161
« on: March 06, 2012, 11:38:50 PM »

Offline MagnusTrask

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0161
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2012, 01:39:37 AM »
What's with Vicki's continuing insistence that worry makes people ill?   ***  Apparently Liz 
was moved to a hospital between episodes.

I remember that they shot these few episodes introducing Dr. Guthrie out of order.   Maybe that's why he's so hesitant and tentative.   I think the next episode may be his first.
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Offline Lydia

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0161
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 01:06:46 PM »
Carolyn has turned into a different person these days.  Gone is the flighty adolescent, and suddenly she's a responsible young woman.  I don't think this is altogether believable, but I would very much like to see Burke's response to the New Carolyn.

When, by the way, did Elizabeth sign the papers putting Carolyn in charge in the event of her - that is, Elizabeth's - incapacitation?  If it was after Elizabeth was taken ill, then Roger could claim that Elizabeth was of unsound mind at the time.  And if it was before, then, all I can figure is that Liz hoped Joe would provide mature guidance for Carolyn.

Vicky tells Guthrie about Josette's ghost, but not, apparently, about Bill Malloy's.  And she keeps mum about the horrendous things that David has done since she arrived at Collinwood.  I can understand her not wanting to air the Collins family's dirty laundry in public, but why is it so impossible - theoretically, I mean - that David should be responsible for Elizabeth's condition?  He wants to be with his mother (conditions unspecified), which Elizabeth is opposing.  He has contact with the supernatural, and we don't know what skills he might have acquired via that contact.  But suddenly David's an innocent, sensitive little boy, whom nobody (except Roger) would ever blame for anything.

Offline DarkLady

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0161
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 04:11:32 PM »
I think we're supposed to be persuaded that Vicki has seen beneath David's exterior and knows there's a scared little kid way, deep down.

My bet would be that Elizabeth signed the papers putting Carolyn in charge some time ago. She was probably all too aware of Roger's unsuitability. Sure, she probably hoped that Joe would provide a steadying hand, but she was probably also aware of Carolyn's deep loyalty to the family--which we are now beginning to see but which I suspect was always latent. And Carolyn was loyal to her personally, probably far more than Roger was, since he spent so much time away from home--first at school when he was a boy, and until a short time ago in Augusta.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0161
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2012, 12:59:55 PM »
But Carolyn's only 17!  Or maybe she's 18 by now.  Still, her sweet 16th birthday isn't so very far behind her.

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0161
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2012, 02:21:12 PM »
Carolyn has turned into a different person these days.  Gone is the flighty adolescent, and suddenly she's a responsible young woman.  I don't think this is altogether believable, but I would very much like to see Burke's response to the New Carolyn.

I see a giant internal change as having happened in Carolyn, triggered by Burke's rejection.   It took place mostly off-camera, but then that's where internal changes happen, inside...  She's smart enough, we could always tell by the entertaining sarcasm in conversations, but it had no organization or focus.  She's only a teenager (?), after all.

She now appears to have had an epiphany that caused her to snap into focus, and form real priorities, beyond having a good time that evening.   That shallow existence rested on the solid, dependable bedrock of Liz, her money, and power, and ability to handle everything thrown at her, and keep the dangerous world (which poor mortals have to deal with every day) at bay.   The moment Liz became sick, weak, and vulnerable, far more vulnerable than Carolyn herself, that had to be an overwhelming sort of revelation, the kind that reorders ones internal world.   That's two epiphanies at once...  They're the same epiphany really, though, since her rethinking of Burke and Liz's illness both strike at the heart of her previously taken-for-granted security, her family's power.   Burke and whoever did this to Liz both threaten it.

It's a little far-fetched, the sudden change in Carolyn, but then so many events in the real world do, until you find out the whole story.   I can say that Nancy Barrett plays it totally convincingly.   I now enjoy witnessing the gears turning in her head.

Quote
When, by the way, did Elizabeth sign the papers putting Carolyn in charge in the event of her - that is, Elizabeth's - incapacitation?  If it was after Elizabeth was taken ill, then Roger could claim that Elizabeth was of unsound mind at the time.  And if it was before, then, all I can figure is that Liz hoped Joe would provide mature guidance for Carolyn.

You know, when those papers were prepared, Liz may have only had in mind some unforseen event that might happen years off, perhaps old-age-related, at a time when Carolyn would definitely have been of age.   She may never have imagined herself getting ill soon, just as no one else seems to be have been able to imagine her becoming ill.   (I've never met anyone who struck me as immune to illness, but then I've never made any connection in my mind between strength of will and the functioning of ones immune system.)

As for Carolyn being able legally to take charge as a teenager... frankly, I'm stumped.   In real life, who would take over?  Who is there?  Would Roger's status as brother trump everything else?

Quote
... why is it so impossible - theoretically, I mean - that David should be responsible for Elizabeth's condition?  He wants to be with his mother (conditions unspecified), which Elizabeth is opposing.  He has contact with the supernatural, and we don't know what skills he might have acquired via that contact.

That's excellent thinking for living in Collinsport, Maine, and it comes from a veteran DS viewer.  I think the answer is that Vicki, Guthrie et al have never seen Dark Shadows...   To Dr. Guthrie's credit, I think he's trying to keep his mind open to any possibility from any direction, whether it comes from Vicki or not.
"One can never go wrong with weapons and drinks as fashion accessories."-- the eminent and clearly quotable Dark Shadows fan and board mod known as Mysterious Benefactor

Offline DarkLady

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0161
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2012, 04:21:55 PM »
I like what you say about Carolyn, MT, and I entirely agree. She has left the frugging, spoiled willful teenager whom Joe watched in dismay at the BW far, far behind her. Her actions in the future will show how true this is. What a shame no one--not even her mother--thinks of her as the future Mistress of Collinwood. One has to wonder why David was the designated heir.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0161
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2012, 05:07:56 PM »
That's excellent thinking for living in Collinsport, Maine, and it comes from a veteran DS viewer.
No, it comes from a veteran Agatha Christie reader.

Offline alwaysdavid

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Re: Discuss - Ep #0161
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2012, 03:19:19 AM »
Carolyn feels she will never see her mother alive again. One would think someone from the family would go with Elizabeth to be by her side. These things take time Guthrie says. I might begin to wonder how long this person is planning on staying. Carolyn and Roger spar over Guthrie and Roger loses.  The indignity to lose to a teenage girl. Roger is going around the house like he is in charge and Carolyn puts him in his place and then informs him she is also in harge of the business.  Burn!  Roger can only say that she is more like her mother every day. What fun.
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