What if Liz and Roger Learned the Truth about Barn

[Joeytrom]

Originally posted by JoeyTrom on the Dark Shadows: General Discussion Forum on January 20, 2002 at 06:56:28:

I am not referring to these episodes, but later on, say 1969 or 1970. Would they have tried to destroy Barnabas or try to help him? Given that they would have known him for a few years, I doubt they would have tried to destroy him as he so feared. Perhaps they would have tried to live with it. In the DS Marilyn Ross novels, there are a couple of books toward the end where Liz and Roger (as well as the rest of the family) know full well that Barnabas is a vampire and they have sympathy for him. I think this may have played out in the series as well.

Joey

[MrsJ]

Posted by MrsJ on January 20, 2002 at 08:02:07:
In Reply to: What if Liz and Roger Learned the Truth about Barnabas? posted by JoeyTrom on January 20, 2002 at 06:56:28:

I am not referring to these episodes, but later on, say 1969 or 1970. Would they have tried to destroy Barnabas or try to help him? Given that they would have known him for a few years, I doubt they would have tried to destroy him as he so feared.

That's also what I would have thought, but according to Sam Hall's article outlining the plot to the end of the series...Barnabas' American cousins were not so understanding. Roger, in fact, would have attempted to kill Barnabas (to end his suffering ostensibly) and in the process is himself killed (by Angelique I believe). I guess she comes back from the dead, too, but my memory may be faulty. I'll have to find that article and read it again. In any case, the family opted to do away with Barnabas rather than protect him. Rather disappointing, I thought, but it was supposedly a way to write Louis Edmonds out of the show (per his request). Lots of loose ends were scheduled to be tied up, too bad we never got to see it.

MrsJ.

[Ben]

Posted by Ben on January 20, 2002 at 09:07:59:
In Reply to: What if Liz and Roger Learned the Truth about Barnabas? posted by JoeyTrom on January 20, 2002 at 06:56:28:

Would they have tried to destroy Barnabas or try to help him? Given that they would have known him for a few years, I doubt they would have tried to destroy him as he so feared. Perhaps they would have tried to live with it.

Joey, after thinking about your post and MrsJ's recap of Sam Hall's outline of how the series was envisioned to play out, I still think the more likely scenario would be a major rift within the Collins family. Liz might offer Barnabas sympathy and protection, but I can see Roger wanting to destroy him. If Burke were still around later in the series, I'll bet he would be on the warpath to destroy Barnabas, no matter how Vicki or the other Collins family members felt.

Just look at how divided the family is becoming about what to do with the increasingly disturbed and tormented David. How much more division will the exposure of Barnabas' secret cause this family?

It's one thing for the Collins family to learn that Barnabas IS a vampire and be sympathetic to his plight. But it's another thing for them to learn the additional truths about what he did to Maggie and what he is now doing to David -- and how he deceived everyone in the family in the process. I'm not so sure if everybody can forgive and forget all that.

[spoiler]Perhaps this explains why Barnabas was later cured of his vampirism, at least for a while. He then had no secret to keep.[/spoiler]

Ben

[ProfStokes]

Posted by ProfStokes on January 20, 2002 at 10:58:35:
In Reply to: Re: What if Liz and Roger Learned the Truth about Barnabas? posted by Ben on January 20, 2002 at 09:07:59:

"Joey, after thinking about your post and MrsJ's recap of Sam Hall's outline of how the series was envisioned to play out, I still think the more likely scenario would be a major rift within the Collins family. Liz might offer Barnabas sympathy and protection, but I can see Roger wanting to destroy him. If Burke were still around later in the series, I'll bet he would be on the warpath to destroy Barnabas, no matter how Vicki or the other Collins family members felt.

It's one thing for the Collins family to learn that Barnabas IS a vampire and be sympathetic to his plight. But it's another thing for them to learn the additional truths about what he did to Maggie and what he is now doing to David -- and how he deceived everyone in the family in the process. I'm not so sure if everybody can forgive and forget all that."

[spoiler]Of course that information would be difficult to deal with, but I think that it would have been balanced by the memories of the many positive things that Barnabas had done for the family. By the latter half of the series, the time to which Joey is referring, Barnabas had come to the family's rescue countless times and shown himself to be a loyal and caring member of the Collins family. Even if his trips through time may have occasionally wiped out the knowledge of some of his deeds, I think the Collinses would have still had enough reason to know that Barnabas was not a threat to them, and so would have been forgiving and protective toward him.[/spoiler]

ProfStokes

[Gerard]

Posted by Gerard on January 20, 2002 at 11:33:59:
In Reply to: Re: What if Liz and Roger Learned the Truth about Barnabas? posted by ProfStokes on January 20, 2002 at 10:58:35:

I'd like to think of the possibility of them finding out at a slightly later date, 1971 and beyond, Barnabas, of course, relieved of his little problem. I could picture it causing some consternation within the family, especially as Roger is concerned, but they (especially Liz) would look at the pros and cons list, seeing that - despite all that happened (and could've happened) when Barnabas first appeared - time causes changes in people and circumstances do as well. They certainly would've seen all that Barnabas did to help the family, even saving many if not most of its members from certain death, and all would be forgiven. Still, there would be the tense moments, such as when Liz asks Barnabas if he would like a Bloody Mary, or - in Barnabas' presence - Roger tells David to knock off all the noise or he'll wake the dead.

Gerard

[Ben]

Posted by Ben on January 20, 2002 at 12:02:27:
In Reply to: Re: What if Liz and Roger Learned the Truth about Barnabas? posted by ProfStokes on January 20, 2002 at 10:58:35:

Of course that information would be difficult to deal with, but I think that it would have been balanced by the memories of the many positive things that Barnabas had done for the family. By the latter half of the series, the time to which Joey is referring, Barnabas had come to the family's rescue countless times and shown himself to be a loyal and caring member of the Collins family. Even if his trips through time may have occasionally wiped out the knowledge of some of his deeds, I think the Collinses would have still had enough reason to know that Barnabas was not a threat to them, and so would have been forgiving and protective toward him.

Hi, ProfStokes -- Yes, as the series progressed, Barnabas proved himself to be perhaps THE most loyal and courageous member of the Collins family. It's conceivable that most of the Collinses would be sympathetic and supportive of him. My point is, isn't it necessary for Barnabas' survival that ALL -- not just most -- of the Collinses agree to support and protect him? I could see someone like Roger having to be dissuaded from his initially brash, judgmental, and stubborn reaction -- and by the time Roger turned around, it might almost be too late. That's why I wonder whether Barnabas could ever take the risk of revealing himself to his modern day family.

Perhaps that's the series finale I would like to see: Barnabas wins the overwhelming sympathy and support of his descendants, but not until after some tense and life-threatening episodes involving characters we would least expect to be a threat to him.

As an aside, perhaps the one character I wish Barnabas did reveal himself to is your esteemed namesake, Elliot Stokes (although I like to think that the wise Elliot somehow had already figured out Barnabas' secret for himself and chose to remain discreet).

Letting my imagination run wild,
Ben

[Ben]

Posted by Ben on January 20, 2002 at 12:08:42:
In Reply to: Re: What if Liz and Roger Learned the Truth about Barnabas? posted by Gerard on January 20, 2002 at 11:33:59:

Still, there would be the tense moments, such as when Liz asks Barnabas if he would like a Bloody Mary, or - in Barnabas' presence - Roger tells David to knock off all the noise or he'll wake the dead.

LOL, Gerard!! Sounds like a DS spoof on "The Carol Burnett Show." You know, with Harvey Korman playing Roger, and so on ...

Ben
(Sorry for hogging this thread!)

[Rosaetta]

Posted by Rosaetta on January 21, 2002 at 01:27:47:
In Reply to: Re: What if Liz and Roger Learned the Truth about Barnabas? posted by Ben on January 20, 2002 at 12:08:42:

LOL, Gerard!! Sounds like a DS spoof on "The Carol Burnett Show." You know, with Harvey Korman playing Roger, and so on ...

I would love to see another DS story (even with new actors as long as Lysette Anthony returned as Angelique) where other stories were played out, I know the originals now, and wouldn't mind if some new ones were tried.

[Gerard]

Posted by Gerard on January 21, 2002 at 02:09:07:
In Reply to: Re: What if Liz and Roger Learned the Truth about Barnabas? posted by Ben on January 20, 2002 at 12:08:42:

LOL, Gerard!! Sounds like a DS spoof on "The Carol Burnett Show." You know, with Harvey Korman playing Roger, and so on ...

I'm really surprised, Ben, that "The Carol Burnett Show" never once had a special guest from DS on, considering the soap's popularity, thus allowing for a spoof sketch, or at least doing a spoof sans any guest from the series. They spoofed every other show or movie out there. Of course, everyone remembers such classics as "Went With the Wind", and "Mildred Fierce"; my all-time favorite was "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" which was set decades later after Snow and Charming got hitched. She became enormous (remember those huge, swinging boobies while she washed the floor?) and he turned out to be, well, gay. It was hysterical!

Gerard

[Luciaphile]

Originally posted by Luciaphil on January 23, 2002 at 06:38:28:
In Reply to: What if Liz and Roger Learned the Truth about Barnabas? posted by JoeyTrom on January 20, 2002 at 06:56:28:

I have heard of a fanfic in which Liz does know the truth--the famous "Secret" that gets so much mention in 1897--and somehow arranges for Willie to hear about the jewels in the hope that Barnabas will get rid of Jason and Willie for her.

Not sure how probable I find that, but then again, I haven't read the story.

I'm inclined to think that Liz would be less compassionate about the whole thing (given her relationship with David) than Roger would, but these are the two characters who seem to have survived their upbringing at Collinwood by being firmly in denial. Also, I never really liked the Sam Hall TV Guide piece to begin with. Can't quite see Roger deciding to be that proactive in killing Barnabas.

Luciaphil