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Messages - Philippe Cordier

886
Calendar Events / Announcements '03 II / Re:"The Haunting"
« on: October 23, 2003, 06:28:23 PM »
Oh, believe me, Vlad, I know  ;)....  I had to argue my point of view on this book in not one, but two college literature courses....one Victorian English Lit, and the other Women's Lit.

Although we disagree about the book, I've been known to take the less traveled road myself at times ... it can be lonely, but satisfying, to think outside the conventional, accepted views that everyone else seems to repeat like a mantra!


887
Calendar Events / Announcements '03 II / Re:"The Haunting"
« on: October 23, 2003, 05:59:00 PM »
Did I say the problem was that I found the characters unlikeable?

Well, no.  I was actually responding to Julia99's comment, which I quoted.  And it certainly was not meant to be an attack.   :o

That said, I think you're in the minority on this, Raineypark ... at least I've met more people (usually female, usually literature majors) who say "Wuthering Heights" is their favorite book, and only one or two people who didn't care for it.  Katherine Anne Porter called it one of three perfect novels.

I guess a personal response to a work is a matter of taste, though.

And I think there's something compelling about Heathcliff ... disturbing, but compelling.



888
Though I haven't quite finished the novel on which "Eye of the Devil" is based,  I'd have to say the movie is far better than the book -- a rarity indeed.  The author, Philip Lorraine, is a pseudonym for Robin Estridge, who co-wrote the script ... not sure who was responsible for the improvements between book and film.  The novel's  basic story is good, it's just that the writing is atrocious.

One change made from the book to the movie is the name of the estate.  In the movie it's referred to as "Bellenac" ... The "belle-" part sounding very French.  In the book, however, it's called "Bellac," which sounded strange after seeing the movie, so I figured it was made up and then changed/improved for the movie.  Then a couple weeks ago while paging through a historical atlas of France looking for my great-grandfather's home town, my eye was caught by the town of Bellac -- it is an actual place, a small town in the Limousin region.  As far as I can tell, Bellac does not have a chateau as in "Eye of the Devil," although there are several in the region.  The movie was filmed in the Dordogne department of neighboring Aquitaine.  The chateau where the movie was filmed was designed in the 17th century by Nicolas Rambourg, an architect from Lorraine, upon the ruins of a medieval fortress, which in turn was once a Roman fort.  I have been able to discover that an annual festival for the entire village was held at this chateau in the 19th century, and perhaps author Estridge based his account on this.  I don't know if the area really had a history of heresy, but it's not too far from the Languedoc - Roussillon region where Catharism was centered.

Emlyn Williams whom I referred to wrote the plays "Night Must Fall" and "The Corn is Green."


Darren Gross wrote:

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They usually show it letterboxed (1.85 or 1.66) from a nice pristine print source so you should be in for a treat.

Unfortunately TCM doesn't have the best reception on my cable service -- every home shopping network, etc. -- perfect, crystal clear.  A channel that airs priceless films you'd like to record for posterity -- faint wavy lines.

889
I haven't finished watching my recording of it yet, but I guess I wasn't overly motivated to do so from what I saw (about the first hour).

I mean, I wasn't expecting Robert Louis Stevenson exactly, but -- you're right.  It seemed more like an adaptation of "Mary Reilly," which I actually like up until the sci-fi ending.  They even copied the set from "Mary Reilly."

I'll stick with the Spencer Tracy version.  I've seen the Fredric March version, but wasn't able to appreciate it for some reason, though I'd be willing to try it again sometime.  That and "Citizen Kane."


890
Calendar Events / Announcements '03 II / Re:"The Haunting"
« on: October 23, 2003, 06:51:39 AM »
I agree it's a terrible story. . .after i finally read it 2 years ago, i
wondered. .what is all the hoopla about..Heathcliff is an absolute sadistic, evil ass!

It is a terrible story, as you say, but so well-constructed and fascinating ...  And who says you have to like the characters?   ;D  Anyone expecting a sentimental romance is in for a shock!

Ralph Fiennes brought out Heathcliff's sadism the best of any of the Heathcliffs in the screen versions I've seen.  There is something intriguing about him too -- difficult to capture, though Fiennes definitely got the intensity.

891
Current Talk '03 II / Daniel and Harriet Collins
« on: October 23, 2003, 06:39:45 AM »
I don't know if anyone has said anything about this, but I'd be interested to know more about the Daniel Collins "backstory" to 1840.  I'm wondering who Harriet was (besides being his wife) and why Daniel murdered her.

Despite his being a murderer, Daniel is one of the characters we sympathise most with in this storyline.  This complexity of character and the ambivalent feelings the viewer has toward him -- we sympathize, but at the same time have reservations knowing that he's a murderer -- is a sign of good character development -- by both writer and actor.  I always prefer shades of gray to black and white interpretations.

892
I forgot to mention that "Eye of the Devil" is also noteworthy for the appearance of Welsh actor and playwright Emlyn Williams in a small but important role.


893
Current Talk '03 II / Re:Mamorstein & Swann
« on: October 22, 2003, 05:01:48 AM »
Luciaphil,

The IBDB source you cites says Francis Swann died in 1983.  What a pity.

I've never seen him mentioned -- other than maybe just his name -- in any interviews by DS producers, etc.

I'll let you know if there are any Vicki parallels once I get ahold of "The Brass Key."  A young woman goes to Maine in search of her birthright.  Gothic novel.  Well, I guess there are parallels!  And this was published in 1963 ...  Could it have been an unacknowledged inspiration/source for Dark Shadows?


894
Calendar Events / Announcements '03 II / "Eye of the Devil" to Air on TCM
« on: October 22, 2003, 04:50:37 AM »
The subtly crafted, atmospheric "Eye of the Devil" with Deborah Kerr, David Niven, Donald Pleasance, and Sharon Tate will air again on TCM on Saturday, DECEMBER 13.

Check your listings for time.  TCM also shows that it will be airing (at the same time) the behind-the-scenes feature on the making of the film, showcasing Sharon Tate.

I was thrilled to discover this movie on my own, never having heard of it previously, which I prefer to both "The Haunting" and "The Wicker Man."

Interestingly, it was only after looking up information on the movie that I discovered that the director, J. Lee Thompson, also directed one of my other very favorite movies, the hard-to-find "Return from the Ashes."  And he directed them back-to-back.

Sadly, neither of these rather edgy films is available on VHS or DVD.

895
Calendar Events / Announcements '03 II / Re:"The Haunting"
« on: October 22, 2003, 04:43:59 AM »
Thanks, Patti.

I finally saw this version of Wuthering Heights after waiting about four years after getting cable and it not airing.

I thought it was quite good up until Merle Oberon's  A - G - O - N - I - Z - I - N - G  death scene.

Why can't someone do a faithful, complete, and effective version of this novel?!??




896
Current Talk '03 II / Re:Mamorstein & Swann
« on: October 21, 2003, 06:42:31 PM »
Thank you for the information on Swann, Luciaphil.  I had been doing some checking at the university library, and the only item listed for him in the catalog here is the comedy "Out of the Frying Pan ..."  And unfortunately the copy is missing from the shelf, though I'll ask circulation to check on it.

I didn't know he had written Gothic-flavored novels -- I don't think that had been said during our previous discussion of him.  I had speculated last year in the Victoria Winters thread that perhaps some other work of
Swann's could shed some light on his ideas relating to the VW mystery.  That's sheer speculation, I know.  But with your information, I may try to track down some of those other works.


897
Current Talk '03 II / Re:Victoria Winters
« on: October 21, 2003, 06:27:33 PM »
I think anyone who has read this thread, or previous discussions, on the topic of Victoria's heritage can see that the matter is not "beyond debate."  As Midnite suggests, a final answer was not explicitly given on the show.  Therefore, since intelligent and observant people disagree in their interpretations, it obviously remains debatable.  All of us who have posted here have picked up on different and contradictory evidence, some of it from outside the actual show's content, such as comments made by actors, producers, the story bible, etc.  Some of the evidence cited here could be called theory, fancy, or even hearsay.

What I think remains undisputed is that the mystery of Vicky's parentage was in a state of flux and ideas about it changed.  The story bible suggested one possibility; some of the writing seemed to suggest another possibility or possibilities; and outside testimony states that such-and-such a decision was made at such-and-such a point in time.  Finally, 30 years later, Dan Curtis gave the explicit directive to Stephen Mark Rainey and Elizabeth Massey that Elizabeth should be Vicki's mother in their DCP-sanctioned novel.  (This was discussed with Mark Rainey the last time the topic was discussed, too, in the thread that became corrupted.)

I'll just offer one final bit of speculation.  In my opinion, writer Francis Swann may have been working on a different assumption than the one most fans of the show have settled upon, and perhaps Swann's concept was along the lines of one of the versions developed by Bob, CassandraBlair, and myself.  This is even more speculative, but perhaps Swann was not going in the direction that the producers decided on, and that could have had something to do with why he left the show just when the mystery was heating up.

Grayson67 wrote:

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Although we'd all probably like definitive answers to our never-ending questions, in a way I'm rather glad that so many questions regarding plots and characters have remained unanswered... it gives us so much to speculate on and imagine for ourselves.

I'd like to frame this and hang it in a DS shrine in a corner of my room  :)

898
A new version of "Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde" produced by Bravo will air this Saturday evening, I believe.

It will be interesting to see if the sets resemble the DS ones, which were based on one of the movie versions' sets (I think it was the Spencer Tracy/Ingrid Bergman version, which I personally like the best).

Check your local listings for times.   :)


899
Current Talk '03 II / Re:Victoria Winters
« on: October 17, 2003, 05:33:34 AM »
I believe that the vast majority of fans believe that Liz is Vicki's mother because 1) Joan Bennett had commented that she was told almost from the very outset that Liz was Vicki's mother and that's how she always played their relationship


I don't wish to belabor the matter, but what I had read about Joan Bennett's comment differs slightly but significantly from what you say.  I read that she, Joan Bennett, as an actress, made an actor's decision (necessary for subtext, whatever) that Elizabeth was Vicki's mother.  If you have information that truly states that she was specifically told that she was Vicki's mother, I'd be interested in seeing that.

Interpreting an actor's performance is subjective, of course, but I saw nothing in her performance that could not also be interpreted by the viewer (especially if a twist to the mystery were later revealed) that Elizabeth had a familial relationship to Vicki that doesn't necessarily have to have been maternal.  An aunt, for example, could feel maternally toward a niece.



Quote
and 2) DS producer Robert Costello has commented that, after they hired Alexandra Moltke and saw her resemblance to Bennett, they decided to deviate from Art Wallace's bible and make Liz Vicki's mother. And they didn't make these comments while DS was originally on the air, but years, even decades after it had been cancelled. One can't help but understand how comments from two people so closely associated with DS might hold more weight with fans than any theories we fans might come up with, no matter how well researched they may or may not be. 


I would like to know what Francis Swann had to say on the matter since he wrote the episodes I refer to.  How much liberty would a writer have in developing aspects of a storyline?  The producer?  How trustworthy is memory years after the fact?  Have we seen evidence that memories of various DS personalities are always trustworthy and accurate?

 >:D

900
Current Talk '03 II / Re:My goodness what a slap!!!
« on: October 17, 2003, 05:19:42 AM »
How exactly was Beth's character changed Vlad?....I saw those episodes but i can't quite figure out what you mean....

Adra,

I was referring to when Beth goes to work for Count Petofi.  My feeling was that this had nothing to do with her character development but was rather an abrupt editorial decision.

V.