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Messages - usffan

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16
Current Talk '24 I / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« on: May 12, 2012, 06:47:22 PM »
My wife and I saw the movie last night.  She was not a fan of the original series when it aired the way that I was, and her first introduction (other than hearing me talk about it) was the revival series in 1991.  I say that because I think she enjoyed the movie more than I did, and when I pointed out a few tidbits here and there it really seemed to add to her appreciation for the movie. 

I freely admit that I WANTED to love this movie.  I think part of my problem with it is that it didn't live up to my admittedly overblown expectations.  I most certainly did not hate the movie, but I also didn't LOVE it. 

I certainly do not think that the movie played as a parody of the original series.  After all, any television show that has the audacity to use a photograph of Paul Stoddard in a coffin loses the right to be indignant about any perceived slights.  And I also did not think that the movie was anywhere near as comedic as was initially feared.  The commercials clearly were cut to make items appear more comedic than they really were.  I think a great example is when Barnabas caught fire.  I did not find that that scene played for laughs at all, and the aftermath with both David and Vicki was quite dramatic. 

I thought a lot of the movie did work.  I did not think that the Carolyn reveal was quite as "out of the blue" as others.  I think there were multiple subtle hints.  First, David's line about her at the breakfast table was clearly one of our first hints.  "She makes noises like a cat."  Second, I don't think the lingering shot of the painter installing a full moon when they were refurbishing Collinwood was an accident.  I personally enjoyed the Vicki/Maggie blending, and I was REALLY captivated by Josette - from the first appearance of her ghost with the crabs coming out of her mouth to the role she played in Maggie's life.  More on that in a bit. 

I was not as put off as many others about the reimagining of Julia.  I was not a card carrying member of the "Julia and Barnabas belong together" club, but I know a lot of fans wanted it.  I think Burton and company tried to give many fans something to like about this movie.  I have no qualms about having characters reinvented (look at Professor Stokes in House of Dark Shadows), and Julia's actions seemed pretty self consistent to me.  She was willing to manipulate people to get what she wanted, so she manipulated Barnabas' naivety through hypnosis, stringing him along about his cure (which was NOT a stretch) and any other means (which some found objectionable). 

Frankly, my biggest beef with the film was Angelique.  I suppose the first scenes were meant to show that she had fixated on Barnabas at an early age (clearly before they'd become sexually active), but the movie would have been much better if they'd developed her character AT ALL.  For me, Lara Parker's Angelique was at her scariest when she would be casting a spell with her wild eyes, and often having somebody else perform her bidding.  We never really got a hint of that.  The porcelain cracking of her facade was never explained or developed.  And if she was really interested in destroying the Collins family (which was her stated motivation), I'm not sure I get the 180 years of inaction between burying Barnabas and sending a werewolf to bite Carolyn in her crib.  Why fixate on Carolyn and David instead of Roger and Elizabeth?  That said, I thought the payoff of having all of her machinations work together to bring about her downfall (Carolyn, Laura and Barnabas) was kind of cool. 

I thought that there were quite a few nods to the original story that worked well.  I LOVED Carolyn appearing on stage before Alice Cooper's "Ballad of Dwight Fry" to ask "Mommy, where's Daddy? He's been gone for so long, do you think he'll ever come home?" and the look on Liz' face as she hears that.  I also liked what they did with Laura, although as others have pointed out she's kind of a hybrid phoenix/banshee (phoenshee? banix?).  And the aforementioned Maggie Evans. 

There has been much made of whether Burton and Depp were true "fans" of the series.  I feel like they did something with this movie that I always secretly hoped for, and since I'm roughly the same age as Depp I completely understand.  I always found Barnabas to be a sympathetic character who simply wanted to be with his true love.  In many ways, what I loved about the series died when Josette "released" Barnabas during the Leviathan storyline.  Despite two chances at revisiting this (HoDS and the 1991 revival series), Dan Curtis never gave Barnabas always left Barnabas one step away from reuniting with Josette.  To me, this movie finally provided that.  I absolutely LOVED the way they showed Josette driving Maggie back to reunite with Barnabas, and for the first time ever Barnabas gets his "happy" ending.  That said, I wished the movie had some kind of epilogue.  The last we see of Liz and the kids is them looking at a burning Collinwood.  What becomes of Barnabas and Josette?  Oh, and what about Roger, who's COMPLETELY wasted in this movie? 

In retrospect, this was a no-win situation for Burton.  This movie already looks like he tried to cram in more than he should have, and I've already seen people lamenting the absence of other characters.  In all, I'm happy I saw it, and happy that it got made, but I think it was just OK. 

17
But congrats to The Avengers for pulling in so much dough.  I'm just curious who saw it. 

I saw The Avengers, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.  It had lots of action and some pretty witty humor.  They also showed a preview for Tim Burton's Frankenweenie, BTW. 

I don't want to hijack the thread and turn it into a discussion of The Avengers, but I kind of see some parallels between comic book fans and OS fans.  There are a group of hardcore comic fans who want the movie versions to be treated completely seriously with little to know humor.  However, the need to bring in big audiences requires some level of entertainment that will attract crowds for night time shows that are willing to pay full price, which tends to be teenagers and young adults who are less likely to be among that hardcore fan set.  Marvel created a nice balance in The Avengers, with some great action scenes but at least two scenes that literally made me laugh out loud.  That laughter came at the expense of certain major characters, and I won't be shocked if there's a small group of fans of these particular characters who are unhappy.  It strikes me that this is similar to those who think Barnabas should neither be funny nor have any jokes made at his expense, even though he is both a fish out of water AND a vampire.  While it will alienate a few, it won't be upsetting to the vast majority of moviegoers. 

18
As MB and others have said, this movie is just another version of Dark Shadows that some will like and others will not.  It doesn't in any way prevent anybody from enjoying any of the previous incarnations, much like Abraham Lincoln's appearance in Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter (or, for that matter, Abraham Lincoln's "appearance" in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure) don't change the legacy of his presidency.

For better or worse, I think the vast majority of our fandom have already made up their minds about whether they're enthusiastic about this movie or not, and based on everything I've read there isn't anything that's going to be done or said that's going to change many minds. Those who are unhappy continue to find things that make them unhappy.  Those who are gung ho are not going to be dissuaded.  Similarly, those who are looking forward to the movie continue to point to things that they think are positive, but they are not likely to change the opinions of the former. 

As for the latest points (and I'll put them all in spoiler tags just in case some view them as spoilers):

[spoiler]If the "character" in question is the werewolf eluded to, it's still a fairly large leap to assume that's Quentin (or Chris).  In one of the trailers they have a werewolf in the Scooby Doo episode they're watching. 

As far as the David line, I'm not as dismayed as others are about this.  In Forest Gump, the preadolescent Forest mimics the funny sounds the doctor made when he was sleeping with Forest's mom in order to pay for his leg braces.  Kids don't necessarily understand the context.  I didn't find that disturbing, while I did find the scene with the crucifix of a similarly aged Reagan in The Exorcist much more disturbing.  I have to at least wait to see the scene before I can get all that worked up about it. 

Finally, I presume the objectionable scene is the one of Julia performing oral sex on Barnabas.  While FAR more graphic than anything that could have been shown on daytime television when the original series aired, didn't a fair portion of the fandom want Barnabas and Julia to end up together?  It sure seemed like Julia had an unrequited love for Barnabas.  While in the original series they could not show her engage in such an act, it's not really so far fetched.  In the latest Mad Men, they showed a very similar scene that ostensibly takes place in 1966.  [/spoiler]

19
This particular passage from those production notes is not a spoiler, but I think is worth pointing out to folks who might be wary of reading the document.  If quoting two paragraphs is a violation of the TOS, I will understand if this post is deleted.  Also, emphasis shown is mine, not in the document:

Quote
Producer David Kennedy had been partnered with the series’ creator, the late  Dan Curtis, years after the show wrapped, and Curtis would come to entrust Kennedy with perhaps his most inventive creation.  Kennedy reveals that the satirical bent in Burton’s new incarnation of “Dark Shadows” was always part of Curtis’s vision.  “When Tim and Johnny talked about what they wanted to do with ‘Dark Shadows,’ they had such a sense of fun that I just knew it was in the right hands.  I honestly don’t think the movie could ever have happened without them, and also Christi.”

He continues, “I’m sure there are going to be hardcore ‘Dark Shadows’ fans who are going to say that the original series didn’t have that much humor in it.  And it didn’t.  But Dan always wanted it to, and I think he’d be really happy with where we ended up.  For me personally, it’s a dream come true.”

20
Scooby Doo?

Oh, and as far as the ET thing goes...

[spoiler]we now know that Elizabeth knows Barnabas' secret, that Barnabas does indeed bite Angelique, and that David at least sees Barnabas in his coffin.[/spoiler]

Curiouser and curiouser...

21
Seeing the amount of anxiety that exists for some DS fans about this movie, I'm curious how some of the tweaks were perceived among longtime fans when the 1991 series first aired.  For example, were there debates about the changes to Maggie's character (the affair with Roger, her being a psychic) at festivals?  I realize the internet and message boards didn't exist to whip emotions into a frenzy, but I don't remember this amount of trepidation for anything Dark Shadows in the past. 

22
Well, this latest trailer really does make me wonder if perhaps the whole Collins family does know Barnabas' secret.

In the one for which MB provided an .mp4 file (thank you, MB!), Barnabas tells the group of hippies that he's been in a box for the last 200 years.  In the latest YouTube one, you hear Barnabas say "I'm a vampire," and it's edited to appear that Willie responds, but it's impossible to tell who he says it to.  In the Chinese commercial we've seen, he clearly tells the hippies that he's a vampire and that he now has to kill them all. 

To be honest, I'm beginning to think that he might actually keep his secret largely intact to people he doesn't intend to bite.

23
Yes, I think that's the one that came on the other night.  I didn't get the wording right for Roger, but it was the same idea ("Exactly what I've been saying").  I hadn't remembered Willie's "Sorry.  He's English" line, either. 

24
And you just know where SGS was going with that line.   [ghost_tongue]

My first thought went to the AC/DC song, but that came out in 1976, and hasn't yet been mentioned in the sound track.  Then again, Barnabas does appear to quote Love Story to the hippies.  It's unclear whether he will have been aware of that movie before he encounters them. 

Oh, and I just noticed my apparent typo.  Roger says "now" instead of "not"

25
I had meant to mention that I had the occasion to attend the 40th anniversary celebration of the Oakland Athletics World Series win from 1972 this weekend at the Oakland Coliseum.  They played music that came out in 1972 between innings.  Several songs that we've heard from the commercials and trailers appeared, though enough other ones that weren't featured (like Yes' Roundabout, Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven and America's Horse With No Name all come to mind) made me a bit wistful about what could have been instead of using things like Barry White's You're The First, The Last, My Everything, which didn't come out until 1974. 

26
Happy to help.  I was still feeling a bit guilty of pointing out the appearance during college basketball games only to have them "take a day or two off" and stop airing them.   [ghost_cheesy]

In that latest commercial, Roger responds to Barnabas' line about big balls with something akin to "not THAT'S what I'm talking about!"  So, in other words, there's still more humor waiting to be played out...

27
Current Talk '11 II / Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Spoilers
« on: April 23, 2012, 06:00:29 PM »
I haven't seen the latest issue of Fangoria, but I know Cousin Barnabas has said there's a particularly spoilerific picture and caption on the bottom of page 44.  I have seen a picture on the internet that may be this picture (without any caption).  So, in regards to this subject...

[spoiler]is the picture in question the one with Barnabas (who looks like a vampire) holding Bella Heathcote during a rain storm?  If so, and presuming this is at the bottom of Widow's Hill, is there any chance this is Josette rather than Vicki and that the caption is wrong?[/spoiler]

28
There are now so many instances of Dark Shadows commercials appearing on television (examples from last night included the Fox 25th Anniversary special and during the airing of The Dark Knight) that I don't typically take notice, but I did notice scenes that I haven't seen before, including one where Barnabas talks about how the Collins family is known for holding the biggest balls (yes, I'm aware of the double entendre).  There's also a scene where Elizabeth is in the foreground shuddering, presumably after an interaction with Angelique (who appears in the background to be talking with Barnabas). 

29
I was saddened to learn today of Mr. Frid's recent passing.  I add my wishes that he rest in peace and my thanks to those who have shared the many wonderful links with fond remembrances and celebrations of his life and work. 

You were an amazing Barnabas and I thank you for letting a young man from Kentucky who knew he was gay from a young age have someone to identify with; I had a secret just like Barnabas. A secret that could make me or break me.  A secret that a lot of people in my life have never understood. But you understood Barnabas.....thanks for understanding.

Taeylor, what a very moving tribute...one with which I, who grew up in Ohio as a young gay boy "with a secret" in the late 60s, can identify.  I always thought, in later years, that my empathy with Barnabas was my need early in my life to keep a part of my life secret, just like Barnabas.

It is amazing to understand for the first time what others apparently perceived for over 40 years.  I was a fan of the original series when it originally aired, and always appreciated how much Barnabas was conflicted with being a vampire as well as his protective role of the Collins family.  I was too young or too naive or too dense to ever appreciate how living in the open while protecting his secret could have represented anything more.  Thank you both for helping to enlighten me nearly a half a century after the fact. 

30
Now how about a Bunnicula? [easter_cheesy]

I thought about linking to the rabbit from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, but I thought this one would be more appropriate...


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