DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Polls Archive => Topic started by: retzev on July 27, 2006, 02:57:39 AM
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My sincerest apology if yours isn't listed, I did the best I could in my limited knowledge. Please list your own if it isn't represented -
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Speaking of which, pardon my ignorance, but what is "jainist"? Is there an organized worship of Allison Janney? I tried to start a cult of Julianka but my wife wouldn't let me. Like she and our friend Linda don't have one for Christopher Walken! ;) But seriously, to what does that refer?
Michael
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/jainism
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What about DS characters?
With a name like Hoffman, I'd guess that Doc Julia was a nice Jewish girl from Wyndcliffe.
David
a nice Jewish boy from Brooklyn
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Personally I believe in Stephen Hawking. Then again I've been known to pray to Jerry Garcia on occasion. Elmont...
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Personally I believe in Stephen Hawking. Then again I've been known to pray to Jerry Garcia on occasion. Elmont...
[thumbright] [thumb]...on both counts!!
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I'm a Druid, reformed. I can pray at bushes! ;D Oh, and I occaisionally pray to the spirit of Joel Crothers! ;)
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I'm really surprised you didn't include Agnostic or Atheist...
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I personally regard Atheism as a religion in everything but name. Technically, Atheists have DEFINITIVE views on the nature of reality every bit as ironclad as the metaphysical propositions of many of the world's religious systems.
Agnosticism, on the other hand, seems more to me a way of looking at the world and thinking about things. Technically, it is too open ended to be codified into a system. Just my view. I haven't checked the all high and mighty Wikipedia which is the New Bible of the Holy Church of the Information Superhighway to see what it says on these topics.
I realize that many folks use Atheism and Agnosticism interchangeably but from my own studies I regard them as creatures of two very different world-views.
G.
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I'm Christian. (Protestant, Baptist)
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I'm really surprised you didn't include Agnostic or Atheist...
Y'know, I meant to :( I was gonna put Atheist, Agnostic, Secular as a category. I always forget something when I make these polls ::)
Anyway, like I said, you can always post whatever isn't listed in a reply.
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I personally regard Atheism as a religion in everything but name. Technically, Atheists have DEFINITIVE views on the nature of reality every bit as ironclad as the metaphysical propositions of many of the world's religious systems.
Agnosticism, on the other hand, seems more to me a way of looking at the world and thinking about things. Technically, it is too open ended to be codified into a system. Just my view. I haven't checked the all high and mighty Wikipedia which is the New Bible of the Holy Church of the Information Superhighway to see what it says on these topics.
I realize that many folks use Atheism and Agnosticism interchangeably but from my own studies I regard them as creatures of two very different world-views.
Atheism and Agnosticism are better categorized as philosophies, rather than religions. But for this poll, they should have been included.
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Atheist, here, not agnostic. And my beliefs have been formed, in part, due to my youthful exposure to DS, among many other factors. I cannot really believe there is a loving god, or believe in any organized religion, after being exposed to the likes of Reverend Trask (and many years later, the DS91 version!), Tammy Faye's former husband (forget his first name), Jerry Falwell, Pat Buchananan, and Al Quaida, etc. ? I don't mean to offend anyone or belittle your beliefs, but these are mine and my reasonings for my beliefs. Again, I can mostly thank DS for making me think about such things.
Brian
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What about DS characters?
With a name like Hoffman, I'd guess that Doc Julia was a nice Jewish girl from Wyndcliffe.
;D
What about Professor Stokes, he seemed to be a fan of the I Ching. Was he a Confucianist?
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I used to know a guy who worshipped the Norse pantheon! He did some ritual in the woods and it involved Thor somehow.
There are also still folks out there who worship the Greek and Egyptian gods.
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I used to know a guy who worshipped the Norse pantheon! He did some ritual in the woods and it involved Thor somehow.
:) lemme guess, he was into Norwegian Black Metal?
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I personally regard Atheism as a religion in everything but name. Technically, Atheists have DEFINITIVE views on the nature of reality every bit as ironclad as the metaphysical propositions of many of the world's religious systems.
Agnosticism, on the other hand, seems more to me a way of looking at the world and thinking about things. Technically, it is too open ended to be codified into a system. Just my view. I haven't checked the all high and mighty Wikipedia which is the New Bible of the Holy Church of the Information Superhighway to see what it says on these topics.
I realize that many folks use Atheism and Agnosticism interchangeably but from my own studies I regard them as creatures of two very different world-views.
Last night on "Bill Moyers on Faith and Reason," Moyers interviewed Margaret Atwood, who discussed the differences between atheists and agnostics. She, too, classified atheism as a religion. She explained that agnostics believe that an ultimate reality is neither knowable nor unknowable, and that because the existence of God cannot be proved or disproved, we cannot ever know (as opposed to believe in) God. She noted that atheists declare emphatically that God does not exist, yet they cannot prove his non-existence any more than Christians can prove his existence.
The interview was quite interesting and made me like Atwood all the more.
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But aren't theism and atheism both simply philosophies until distinct doctrines/systems of belief (aka religions) are built around them?
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My first hint that Atheism was a religion in everything but name was the antics of this professor at U. Penn in the early 1980s who actively worked on converting his grad students to Atheism. He would start arguments about it and refuse to let it go.
The remarks about Heathenism and heavy metal are why I try to avoid discussing my religion in public, whenever possible, Can people please try to have some respect for minority religions here?
I am going on vacation tomorrow for a week and I suspect it's just as well.
cheers, Gothick one of "those people out there" who follows a polytheistic religion
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My first hint that Atheism was a religion in everything but name was the antics of this professor at U. Penn in the early 1980s who actively worked on converting his grad students to Atheism. He would start arguments about it and refuse to let it go.
The remarks about Heathenism and heavy metal are why I try to avoid discussing my religion in public, whenever possible, Can people please try to have some respect for minority religions here?
I am going on vacation tomorrow for a week and I suspect it's just as well.
cheers, Gothick one of "those people out there" who follows a polytheistic religion
Gothick,
My sincerest apologies if I offended you, I assure you no offense was intended.
My post concerning "Norwegian Black Metal" was in reference to the underground popularity of...well...Norwegian Black Metal bands that have made Norse mythology so popular as of late. I know these groups are partly responsible for giving these beliefs a bad name due to their (semi-)recent antics...but I guess this is something that believers of every stripe deal with.
Wiccans have had to put up with teen-age BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER fans, and Goth "coolies", etc, who have latched on to the latest thing and, in a sense, hi-jacked what is in reality a sincere and serious system of beliefs...Muslims are watching in horror as radicals, in the name of Islam, are declaring Jihad on the entirety of western civilization...Orthodox Christians have endured endless derision as their faith has been derided in the public square, mocked in popular culture (i.e. DS's own TRASK family ::))...Judaism hardly needs a mention...the list goes on and on.
I'm sorry.
I knew this was a dangerous topic... :-
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Gothick dear, I must assume you know that I in no way meant the post as a slight against anyone. I was merely trying to make it known that there are indeed people in the world who still believe in the Norse, Greek and Egyptian deities. I think it's cool that there are people who still do believe. Now, Wiccans on the other hand... I kid! I kid!
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I knew this was a dangerous topic...
The topic asks DS fans to state their religion if they choose to do so. A discussion of various religions is off topic.
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I knew this was a dangerous topic... :-
Hmm, probably so, which is why I've avoided commenting in general on this topic. I think an interesting, and less dangerous, topic about religion would be "what religion do you think the characters on DS are?" I think David mentioned that Julia might be Jewish (I can buy that) and we all know the Collins family are Protestant, as is evidenced by the numerous uses of Ministers (rather than Priests or Rabbi's) when they marry. But WHAT Protestant faith? I feel that they are more than likely Episcipalion (sp?) as we kind of get the impressions, at least *I* do, that they are of English ancestory, and isn't the Ep. church a sort of "American version" of the Church of England? Episcipaleons, let's hear from you! ;) (apologies at the, I'm sure, mispelling of the religion, but I'm too lazy to go get the dictionary!) ;D
Now, as for the Dupres family, THEY were Catholic I'm sure as they are French and using Saint's metals when they pray etc...Imagine the LOOK on Joshua's face when his only son and heir told him he was marrying a Catholic (no disrespect intended towards Catholics, but as the entire nation freaked over John Kennedy's election as President simply because he was Catholic, I imagine a close-minded guy like Joshua would have blanched at the thought. ;))
What other religions do you think ppl in Collinsport were?
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The topic asks DS fans to state their religion if they choose to do so. A discussion of various religions is off topic.
Yep.
Well, putting this info together with the politics poll, it seems the average DS fan, or at least the average DSBoards cousin, is a Christian who leans to the left politically. Interesting ;D
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My suspicion based on vestments (plain and simple) and ceremony (i.e., not the Book of Common Prayer), it would seem more then likely the Collins were Congregational. I further base this on region. Pilgrims and/or Puritans would have colonized Massachusetts. Episcopals came to Virginia and it wasn't until later that the Episcopal church was the official church of Massachusetts. However, they absorbed the Congregationals. It would seem unlikely they were Calvinist (i.e., Presbyterian).
No way that [spoiler]that the bans of marriage required for an Episcopal marriage could have been published three times for the wedding of Barnabas to Angelique. It was a pretty shot gun wedding.[/spoiler]
The Congregationals were part of the English Puritan reform. They further were instrumental in a good deal of progress ideas during the American Revolution. Barnabas was clearly a forward thinker of liberty for his day. I don't believe he had these thoughts in a vacuum. He got them from somewhere.
As for my religion, I am a Christian who highly regards the Church of Sleeping in On Sunday Morning.
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No way that [spoiler]that the bans of marriage required for an Episcopal marriage could have been published three times for the wedding of Barnabas to Angelique. It was a pretty shot gun wedding.[/spoiler]
No kidding! All that was missing was [spoiler]the baby, LOL! I'm actually surprised that instead of her rather elaborate plans of having Josette and Jeremiah fall for each other and run off to get married, she didn't simply concoct something along the lines of a Rufee (sp?) aka the Date Rape Drug, slip it to Barnabas, have her way w/him and present him w/the news she was pregnant. Hello!!?? Oldest trick in the book Angie, LOL! 'Course, in 1841 PT, although the circumstances were quite different of course, there was a shot gun wedding of sorts between Bramwell and a pregnant Catherine. ;)[/spoiler]
Barnabas was clearly a forward thinker of liberty for his day. I don't believe he had these thoughts in a vacuum. He got them from somewhere.
From his father no doubt believe it or not. Remember [spoiler]Joshua was very much a believer in a Republic run government rather than one run by royalty. Remember his scene w/Natalie when he was shocked she still 'affected a title' and remarked that "France has followed our example and become a Republic". Love her retort--"Precisely why I live in Martinique!" ;)[/spoiler]
As for my religion, I am a Christian who highly regards the Church of Sleeping in On Sunday Morning.
Amen sister! My religion is professional sports, football in the fall and winter, baseball in the spring summer. ;D
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Wow politics and religion are two subjects i don't discuss
and i now am 50 i am finding even more that i don't really give a damn
what others think or do as long as it isn't illegal ;)
jennifer
Steve have a really good vacation and see you when you get back
I really needed mine ;D
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Atheist, here, not agnostic. And my beliefs have been formed, in part, due to my youthful exposure to DS, among many other factors. I cannot really believe there is a loving god, or believe in any organized religion, after being exposed to the likes of Reverend Trask (and many years later, the DS91 version!), Tammy Faye's former husband (forget his first name), Jerry Falwell, Pat Buchananan, and Al Quaida, etc. ? I don't mean to offend anyone or belittle your beliefs, but these are mine and my reasonings for my beliefs. Again, I can mostly thank DS for making me think about such things.
This post got me thinking about the influence of the so-called Rev Trask (and subsequent all too real so-called infamous reverends). All Trask and the real-life charlatans ever convinced me of was that evil does exist and that existence certainly doesn't preclude the clergy. Yeah, that old "gift of free will" thing can be a burden OR a blessing - but I can't say I blame anyone for the way I choose to use it. [angel12]
My feeling on the religion of the Collins family is that whatever they were they weren't overly devout about it. Attendance at their church probably had more to do with social standing and obligations/expectations. It could even be argued that a weak spiritual belief system contributed to some family members being so easily hoodwinked by Trask and his ilk. I mean, Angelique and some of the other villians were pretty sure of their personal beliefs and he didn't seem to confuse them too much.
Just another quick DS and religion thought¢â‚¬¦wouldn't it be funny if a film or new version of DS were done and the new millennium Trask decendants had moved on to their own TV show in the world of televangelism? How perfect would THAT be! [jester]
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My feeling on the religion of the Collins family is that whatever they were they weren't overly devout about it. Attendance at their church probably had more to do with social standing and obligations/expectations.
Very true, somehow I don't see Barnabas and Jeremiah singing in the church choir, LOL! At The Eagle, definately! ;D The family probably did attend church every Sunday, but as you say CastleBee, probably only for appearance sake, except for Abigail. I think she went for real. Funny though, when [spoiler]Barnabas and Josette were going to be married sooner than expected, they were going to be married in the Drawing Room of the Old House, not in the village church.[/spoiler]
Just another quick DS and religion thought¢â‚¬¦wouldn't it be funny if a film or new version of DS were done and the new millennium Trask decendants had moved on to their own TV show in the world of televangelism? How perfect would THAT be!
Maybe something along the lines of the 700 Club!? ;)
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I'm a Presbyterian. I'm not sure what I thought the Collins family was though I have the idea they were Episocopalian (spelling?) for some reason. Not sure why.
The Trasks of the world are commonplace. It's not representative of the flaws of Christianity as much as it is an example of when someone memorizes scripture and yet totally misses the message. Or they use it as a ruse to scam people emotionally or literally.
nancy
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Maybe something along the lines of the 700 Club!? ;)
Hee hee...yes, or instead of TBN meaning Trinity Broadcasting Network it could be Trask Broadcasting Network. I could just see our 5th generation+ Reverand Trask in a white polyester suit (ala Paul Crouch who he has more than a few points in common with IMO) on that garish set blasting everyone who disagrees with him to kingdom come. He could even have the obligatory big hair weeping wife at his side. It would all work - though, it would be hard to keep it from lapsing into a complete parody.
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I live in Maine and some of the oldest churches are Congregational Churches. New England is famous for the tall steeples with the cross on top. victoriawinters explained it perfectly. I got out my Portland phonebook and there are 22 Congregational Churches and 7 Episcopal Churches in the Portland area. My own town has 3 Congregational Churches(they also go by UCC(United Church of Christ) all built over 100 years ago. The Episcopal Church is newer. It looks about 20 years old, very modern architecture.
I have attended a few services at one of the Congregational Churches. The service was identical to the Presbyterian service.
I always thought the Collins family were of Puritan stock which would make the Congregationist. I thought Trask was part of an unaffiliated church sort of like a christian cult with a charismatic leader. The reverend Jim Jones comes to mind.
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He could even have the obligatory big hair weeping wife at his side.
LOL! Could you just see Minerva Trask w/big hair and too much eye make-up ala Tammy Faye Baker, LOL!
I thought Trask was part of an unaffiliated church sort of like a christian cult with a charismatic leader. The reverend Jim Jones comes to mind.
I think this is correct. I think that Barnabas even asks him what church he's affiliated with and he gives some BS answer about being of the church of the Lord or some nonsense. To which Barnabas smirks and says something like, "Oh, so you're a self proclaimed minister, not an ordained one" or something like that. ;)
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I think this is correct. I think that Barnabas even asks him what church he's affiliated with and he gives some BS answer about being of the church of the Lord or some nonsense. To which Barnabas smirks and says something like, "Oh, so you're a self proclaimed minister, not an ordained one" or something like that. ;)
I agree - Brother Trask's Travelin' Salvation Show for sure!
I can just hear Frid delivering that line complete with the smirk. Too funny.
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I agree - Brother Trask's Travelin' Salvation Show for sure!
LOVE that song, probably Neil Diamonds best! One of them anyway. ;)
I can just hear Frid delivering that line complete with the smirk. Too funny.
That smirk was killer wasn't it. ;)
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That smirk was killer wasn't it. ;)
Oh yeah - nobody could do it better! And no other character(s) on the show deserved it more than Trask.
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Unitarian Universalist here. :)
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Semi-non-practicing Episcopalian here...have flirted with Wicca and Buddhism and would have to say my personal beliefs are more like spiritual agnosticism. Anyway, enough about me.
Agreed that the Collins family would likely have only attended church because it was the thing to do - social standing and all. And yeah, based on what I saw of the ministers who came to the house and the simplicity of the rites as shown, the Collinses weren't Episcopalians - not "high church" anyway. From what I know of Congregationalists, that sounds more like a fit.
Gothick - I hope you have a loverly vacation!
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I got out my Portland phonebook and there are 22 Congregational Churches and 7 Episcopal Churches in the Portland area.
Well, thanks for looking at that. It cinches it then.
Remember too everyone that it would have been so strange for the Collins to [spoiler]adhere to the Church of England (i.e., King George III as head of the church) and stock pile guns in the mauseleum to fight the Revolutionary War. Yes the American branch later became independent but Amadeus was already here in 1692. Smells and bells (high Episcopal) doen't fit them at all otherwise they may have then at the very least censored the house from the stench of the various zombies that came to call.[/spoiler]
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Oh, I guess I didn't mention (beyond taking the poll) - I'm a kind of Protestant Catholic hybrid. I tend to argue with myself a lot.
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I agree with everything philosopher Alan Watts ever wrote, so I guess that makes me some sort of agnostic Buddhist.
The interesting thing about religion and DS was the great amount of opposition by conservative religious groups to DS back when it was first broadcast. They thought it promoted Satanism.
As for those who wish to discuss religion, atheism, agnosticism, etc. - there are two forums dedicated to that sort of thing - christianforums.com and IIDB.com (internet infidels debate forum).
As to the religion of DS characters - I would think that in a world of real vampire and werewolf "curses", witches and warlocks who can work real magic, ghosts, hands with magic powers, phoenixes, leviathan monsters, etc. - well, a person would be a fool not to be a literalist christian - just to play the odds. ;D
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The interesting thing about religion and DS was the great amount of opposition by conservative religious groups to DS back when it was first broadcast. They thought it promoted Satanism.
Yep, this is true. I think one group even quipped that the show was "Satan's favorite TV show" or something like that. 8)
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My sincerest apology if yours isn't listed, I did the best I could in my limited knowledge. Please list your own if it isn't represented -
No worries. I chose Wiccan, though I am closer to being generally neo-pagan... ;D
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I also figured the Collinses to be Congregationalists based upon the history of that particular part of New England. Julia Hoffman was Jewish; Professor T. Eliot Stokes was either an Episcopalian or a Presbyterian because of his rather regal mannerism (you know what Reverend Lovejoy always says about those "snooty Episcopalians" on The Simpsons); the DuPres' were, of course, Catholic. As an aside, and we even discussed it a bit quite a few years ago here, I surmised that, in PT1841, the reason why Josette DuPres Collins, the wife of the late Barnabas Collins, was never fully accepted by the family was because she was a Catholic, and 18th/19th century American Protestants had certain views about "one of them" marrying into their families.
As for me, I believe in being a decent human being. I'm just not practicing right now.
Gerard
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the reason why Josette DuPres Collins, the wife of the late Barnabas Collins, was never fully accepted by the family was because she was a Catholic, and 18th/19th century American Protestants had certain views about "one of them" marrying into their families.
Now, see I wouldn't have blamed a lack of acceptance on religion so much as the long running animosity between the French and English. Of course, I wouldn't find it hard to believe that having the right amount of cash and social standing would cover a multitude of religious differences in the minds of both the Collins and DuPres families.
As for me, I believe in being a decent human being. I'm just not practicing right now.
Gerard
LOL!
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I surmised that, in PT1841, the reason why Josette DuPres Collins, the wife of the late Barnabas Collins, was never fully accepted by the family was because she was a Catholic
Interesting theory, and one I can buy for sure! But to be honest, it's funny to think of Bramwell as a Catholic, LOL! Catherine would of course be Episcopalian or a Presbyterian w/a name like Harridge. ^-^
As for me, I believe in being a decent human being. I'm just not practicing right now.
Hmmmm....me thinks we've got a 'Roseanne' fan here, LOL! Was that one the funniest episodes ever?! That, along w/the masterbation ep and the PMS ep rank as my top 3 favorite 'Roseanne' eps. Oh, and I like the one where the boy keeps getting boners too. ;D
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I loved that episode, Buzz! That was one of the best one-liners ever uttered.
Oh, while still talking about the denomination-affiliation of DS characters, Angelique was actually Catholic, at least according to Lara Parker's novel Angelique's Descent. She was baptized Catholic, was raised as one by her mother, but things went out of whack if one read the novel. Imagine if she decided to finally go to confession around, say, 1971. The priest would probably have to go into therapy for the next decade.
Gerard
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I'm a WASP girl.
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What denomination do you think Amy, Chris and Tom were.
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Speaking of which, pardon my ignorance, but what is "jainist"? Is there an organized worship of Allison Janney? I tried to start a cult of Julianka but my wife wouldn't let me. Like she and our friend Linda don't have one for Christopher Walken! ;) But seriously, to what does that refer?
How does one join the Christopher Walken cult?
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What denomination do you think Amy, Chris and Tom were.
I think they were Lycanthropians. Reformed, of course.
Gerard
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I think they were Lycanthropians. Reformed, of course.
Rainey laughs hysterically...... [stfl]
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What denomination do you think Amy, Chris and Tom were.
I think they were Lycanthropians. Reformed, of course.
::Falls on the ground:: Badum-bum ching! Seriously though, that made me laugh out loud.
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Speaking of which, pardon my ignorance, but what is "jainist"? Is there an organized worship of Allison Janney? I tried to start a cult of Julianka but my wife wouldn't let me.
How small-minded wives can be. As for the Allison Janney cult, and I think it'd have to be an all-out freaky cult or else she'd just have NO respect for you... sign me up. I'm getting in on the ground floor now, so I can get to to be the Jackal's Pope.
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Oh, and for years I was a minister in the Church of the Subgenius. Rev. Dr. Mr. Sensitive. They really do come closest to my take on things.
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E=MC2 is mine