DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '06 II => Topic started by: arashi on July 22, 2006, 08:27:59 PM
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I just finished the book this morning and was wondering what others thoughts on the book were? I won't go into any spoilers here, but have to give my opinion.
While I thought the book started out interestingly enough, by the end I had an entirely different opinion all together. The ending I thought was ludicrous beyond belief. It was like bad fanfiction, and having written some bad fanfiction myself in the past I sympathize, but am still disappointed. I thought Angelique's Descent was a really fun book, The Salem Branch however was a bit tedious. I had no real connection to any of the new characters, and was surprised at some of the actions taken by established characters.
I thought it was amusing though, Lara's description of the Salem street layout. I have been there many dozens of times and each time my sister and I get lost only to somehow find ourselves at the same parking area hemmed in by the mall with the cheap movie theater and an old church.
Authors, a word for a moment. Maine in November, Maine at the end of October... there are no bugs, frogs or anything else making noise in the night. Especially not cicadas. Three of the past four years in Waldo County we have had snow on the ground before Halloween. Come November everything is usually barren, brown and dead for the season.
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Authors, a word for a moment. Maine in November, Maine at the end of October... there are no bugs, frogs or anything else making noise in the night. Especially not cicadas. Three of the past four years in Waldo County we have had snow on the ground before Halloween. Come November everything is usually barren, brown and dead for the season.
I love it!! Someone else who gets annoyed when writers don't get the facts straight!!
I can't tell you how many new novels take place on Long Island.....eveyone has Hampton Fever, I guess. But it's appallingly obvious that they never look out the Jitney windows on their way out from Manhattan. And they don't know a damned thing about the locals, and even less about the 300 year history.
Why set a novel in such a specific location as Salem, and then not make the attempt to get it as real as possible? It would surely be easier to make up a town.
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Maine in November, Maine at the end of October... there are no bugs, frogs or anything else making noise in the night. Especially not cicadas. Three of the past four years in Waldo County we have had snow on the ground before Halloween. Come November everything is usually barren, brown and dead for the season.
I haven't read The Salem Branch, and have no intention to. I bought Angelique's Descent and couldn't finish it. I think Lara's definately got writing talent, however, she should write about something else. The DS universe, strangely enough, is not her forte, IMHO. I've read better stories written by the fans. I say strangely enough because as a cast member, you'd think writing what is essentially fan fiction, would be a no brainer for them. Oh well...
I find the above interesting. I'm assuming she had cicadas in November in Maine? Too much! Like you and RaineyPark, I get intensely annoyed when a writer, ANY writer, doesn't RESEARCH! One of the reasons my novel has taken nearly 10 years to write is I want to get it as historically accurate as possible. Now, having said that, it DOES take place in Parallel Time so I will take a few liberties!  ;)Â
I remember watching an episode of Law & Order and there was a case where a woman had done something horrible to her husband, can't remember what, it's been a while, but the ADA makes a reference to the Lorena Bobbit case and said something like, "Well, I suppose it would be allowed in Manassas County" or something to that effect. The thing that irritated the hell out of me is there is NO Manassas County in the Commonwealth of VA! Manasssas, where the Bobbits lived, is in Prince William County! You'd think a show as high brow as L&O would have researched that better and had the ADA say "Prince William County" or "The city of Manassas"!  ::)
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I'm in the middle of the book, and liking it so far. As a footnote, I was not able to get to the bookstore when Lara was signing copies, but I phoned and asked if I bought the book, would she sign it and have it shipped out...she did, and very graciously wrote a nice, sweet note. Also, I've tried to find a copy of her first, out-of-print book, Angelique's Descent--and was horrified to find that used copies on adall.com and alibris.com go for $75-150!! I guess it means DS is considered a valuable commodity-but what a rip-off! >:(
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I'm in the middle of the book, and liking it so far. As a footnote, I was not able to get to the bookstore when Lara was signing copies, but I phoned and asked if I bought the book, would she sign it and have it shipped out...she did, and very graciously wrote a nice, sweet note. Also, I've tried to find a copy of her first, out-of-print book, Angelique's Descent--and was horrified to find that used copies on adall.com and alibris.com go for $75-150!! I guess it means DS is considered a valuable commodity-but what a rip-off! >:(
that was nice of her rainingwolf i saw one the other day on ebay and could not believe the bids
maybe i should find my copy :)
jennifer
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While I thought the book started out interestingly enough, by the end I had an entirely different opinion all together. The ending I thought was ludicrous beyond belief.
Completely agree with you about the end. I couldn't believe what I was reading in that last chapter.
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Completely agree with you about the end. I couldn't believe what I was reading in that last chapter.
Now I'm really curious! I'll be up all night finishing it!
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i saw one the other day on ebay and could not believe the bids maybe i should find my copy :)
I was thinking the EXACT same thing Jennifer! I wonder how much I could get for mine! Basically unused as I couldn't finish it, mint condition! ;)
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Golly--I gave my copy of Angelique's Descent away to a friend (who I know enjoyed it very much).
I enjoyed reading it--I thought the pre-DS chapters were beautifully written and atmospheric. Once it got to Collinsport it seemed as if LP had ventured into Twilight Zone territory. The ending was kind of cool because in some ways it was a paraphrase of an old Sumerian myth about the great Goddess of Sex and Death, Inanna, and Her descent into the Netherworld to visit her dear Sister, Ereshkigal, the Queen of Night. I know Lara had researched the mythological elements of gothic and horror fiction so I presumed her use of the myth was deliberate.
But I knew I would never need to read the book again, so I gave it away. I don't think I will be able to read The Salem Branch, but it sounds as if the book is selling well.
G.
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I haven't read the book yet, but here's a thought:
Craig Hamrick wrote his 2 DS books out of a love for "big Lou" and the show.
RJ Jamison wrote her book on Grayson out of a love for GH and DS.
Lara doesn't love DS, but she loves showbiz and wanted to be a famous actress.
Whether fair or not, she no longer gets cast in films/TV.
DS was her only shot at fame, and it keeps her in the public eye, at least before a niche audience.
She's writing DS novels more out of a desire to rekindle her lost acting career, and has no real love for the show.
No love for it, no feel for it.......
David
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She's has no real love for the show. No love for it, no feel for it
I feel the EXACT same way David! Like I said earlier in this thread, I think she has SOME writing talent, but hasn't a CLUE about DS or how DS fiction should be written. I've read better DS fiction from fans and frankly I think I've written better stuff myself. ;) Ones of note would be Karlenfan, Kathy Resch, Jay Keaveny, Bobubas, Selby D. Pearson, Minja. All I can come up with off the top of my head. ;)
BTW, Craig Hamrick is also a wonderful writer. I enjoyed both versions of Big Lou immensely as well as Barnabas & Company. Looking forward to the revised edition of this one.
As for RJ, I'm only up to Chapter 3 of the GH book, but it's fabulous! Great jobs Craig and RJ! ;)
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I dunno if I agree with you here, David. Lara took two years out of her life (and spent tens of thousands of dollars) to obtain an MFA in Creative Writing as she loves teaching. This past festival, I asked her about the MFA as I am considering getting one as well in Creative Writing. The way she talked about the politics of getting a teaching position at a university of college and overcoming it, she sounded as if she were anxious to use the degree for teaching and writing.
There are other DS actors who went on to successful careers after acting. Clarice Blackburn won an Emmy for her work as a soap scriptwriter and Marie Wallace has a very successful career as a photographer and publicist for Columbia Presbyterian Hospital. She loves the work she does. No reason to think Lara P. doesnt love writing and teaching.
Sometimes after getting into a profession you thought you would love forever, you find you don't love it so much afterall. I was getting a lot of work as a professional actor when I stopped being active in the profession. I didn't care for the lifestyle or working on TV. I'm sure I am not the only actor who got out of the business in spite of getting work. Some people decide they want to do something else.
Nancy
DS was her only shot at fame, and it keeps her in the public eye, at least before a niche audience.
She's writing DS novels more out of a desire to rekindle her lost acting career, and has no real love for the show.
No love for it, no feel for it.......
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Don't misunderstand, Nancy.
I think Lara does love writing.
I'm just not sure if she loves DS!
David
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Oh I understood you, David. I just wanted to address your suggestion she was turning to writing out of some sort of desperation. I don't think writing novels would necessarily help an acting career; it would, however, help her writing and teaching career. ;D
Nancy
Don't misunderstand, Nancy.
I think Lara does love writing.
I'm just not sure if she loves DS!
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I haven't read THE SALEM BRANCH yet, but my biggest problem with ANGELIQUE'S DESCENT was Lara's portrayal of familiar characters, making them seem strangely UNfamiliar. Her storytelling is certainly competent, and I would imagine it has improved with her experience since AD. I hope she does a better job of nailing the characters this time around.
Lord knows, my favorite part of writing DREAMS OF THE DARK was getting inside the people of Collinwood and trying to make sure they really -were- the people we know from Collinwood. While I think there was room for some improvement in areas, I think we did OK. :)
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Yes, that is quite curious. Lara admitted to me that she had to start watching "episodes" which surprised me as it sounded as if she had only recently done so. I think this sort of thing is what rankles fanfic writers who feel the characters in their very bones . . . .
And there is no excuse for lack of research especially know with the availability of the internet. For that matter, you can call and ask questions of a reference librarian in an area you want to write about if you are unable to visit! At the very least a writer can do that.
Nancy
I haven't read THE SALEM BRANCH yet, but my biggest problem with ANGELIQUE'S DESCENT was Lara's portrayal of familiar characters, making them seem strangely UNfamiliar. Her storytelling is certainly competent, and I would imagine it has improved with her experience since AD. I hope she does a better job of nailing the characters this time around.
Lord knows, my favorite part of writing DREAMS OF THE DARK was getting inside the people of Collinwood and trying to make sure they really -were- the people we know from Collinwood. While I think there was room for some improvement in areas, I think we did OK. :)
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When one isn't in love with the work they're doing, it shows!
Look at how brilliant the DS writing was for 1795 & 1897, and how sloppy it was for 1840, when the cast/crew had gotten tired of the show & wanted to move on.
Also notice the flat lighting in 1840.......
David
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Lord knows, my favorite part of writing DREAMS OF THE DARK was getting inside the people of Collinwood and trying to make sure they really -were- the people we know from Collinwood. While I think there was room for some improvement in areas, I think we did OK. :)
This is a good point Mark. I try and do the same when I write DS fiction and hopefully when ppl read my stories/novel they'll say to themselves, "Yep, I can totally see that character doing that or hear that character saying that". Of course, I'm a big dialog writer, not sure what that signifies...maybe I'm a screenwriter at heart. ;)
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I've never read either of the Lara Parker books because they haven't been published in braille. The first one has been made available in an Ebook form, but I don't have the necessary software yet. Maybe soon I'll be able to, then I can form a proper opinion. ;D
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My roomate is reading it now. She loves it, but hasn't come to the end. Will post her opinion later. But she is enjoying it.
I am in the midst of reading the Grayson Hall bio which is just wonderful. The author did a thorough job. It takes alot of hard work and dedication to research an obscure actor and my heart goes out to her. She really did a nice job.
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i bought the book at the fest but have yet to crack a page(although i am about half way through r.j. jamison's tome).
but the truth is that i bought it more as a gesture of support for lara parker than for any interest i might actually have in it's "plot".
i guess for me my enjoyment of the show is in the total picture.not just the characters but the actors who played them then...their faces,their voices.the music,the sets,the clothes.for me it just doesn't translate well to any other medium.i love the naive,time-capsule element of it.
i enjoyed the first of the new audiodramas but mostly for the "goosepimplyness" of hearing those voices and that music combined again.to tell you the truth i pretty much forget the plot just a few days later.
i intend to read lara's book and i'll either like it or not but it won't factor into my feelings about the show itself.
in truth the story that lara the author is telling now just isn't as compelling to me as the one lara the actor,portraying an impossibly gorgeous,twenty-year-old witch,told then.the eyes alone more telling than anything written on a page.
for this reason i've never had much interest in fan-fiction either.
besides,with so many new offerings,many involving the same key participants,telling such wildly differing stories,it's impossible for me to square this with "canon" and have it be real.
in terms of comtemporary literary offerings i enjoy the non-fiction biographies best.i liked "the bennett's,an acting family" and am enjoying "a hard act to follow" despite the fact that i'm not otherwise remotely interested in the theater arts.
all this said i'm glad these new works are in production and i hope they are well-liked.just in terms of my own feelings about it the original is where i'm at. :P
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While it was enjoyable reading a Dark Shadows book, I have to say that The Salem Branch was not my favorite. Â As mentioned, the ending was not - how shall I phrase it? - to my taste. Â Now, as for Angelique's Descent, I absolutely loved it. Â Adored it. Â I read it three times, and my copy is still in pristine condition (and I'll never sell it, unless the asking price hits five figures). Â I think one of my problems with DS - TSB is that it is written, or seems to be, specifically for DS fans. Â Anyone not familiar with the series would be completely perplexed as to who these people are, why they act the way they do, and what's it all about. Â Its audience appeal is limited. Â My friend who bought me my copy as a gift has no idea what DS is all about, other than what he's heard from me. Â After I finished it, he asked if he should read it. Â I explained that it would be too puzzling for him; he would not understand what was going on. Â Instead, I gave him the rough first draft of my DS novel - The Watcher on the Hill. Â In that one (I wrote it in 1999 as a where-are-they-now, the story set around 2000), I went into quick but rather complete descriptions of what happened in the series, dispersed throughout the book, so a reader who had no familiarity would get an idea of things.
Gerard
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I haven't read THE SALEM BRANCH yet, but my biggest problem with ANGELIQUE'S DESCENT was Lara's portrayal of familiar characters, making them seem strangely UNfamiliar. Her storytelling is certainly competent, and I would imagine it has improved with her experience since AD. I hope she does a better job of nailing the characters this time around.
Unfortunately, she doesn't. Though it's not true of all her characterizations in TSB, she misses the mark on a few of them. For example, she wrote when introducing Quentin:
An inveterate bachelor, he was the sort of philanderer whose faĤade, Barnabas knew, hid the soul of a man who secretly feared and despised women. He charmed them with ease, and abandoned them just as quickly once he became bored with them. And he made no apologies for his behavior. A sinister and elegant exterior hid an empty shell, callous and compassionless.
Oh really? Did she watch the parts of the series when Quentin fell wholly in love with Amanda and Daphne? Perhaps we can excuse her for missing the latter storyline, but Angelique was certainly around to taunt Amanda. As as I said, this is only one example for one character.
The first Big Finish CD, OTOH, contains a scene that feels very right in which Quentin mocks Angelique for being oblivious to pure love.
But this is only part of why I'm getting little enjoyment out of the book. The other problem I have with it is her writing style, which I would describe as having too many words that don't really add much except to muddy the narrative. This was most obvious in the earliest chapters. Just because you could use adjectives and adverbs doesn't mean that you should. :-
Lord knows, my favorite part of writing DREAMS OF THE DARK was getting inside the people of Collinwood and trying to make sure they really -were- the people we know from Collinwood. While I think there was room for some improvement in areas, I think we did OK. :)
Oh yes. :D
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The other problem I have with it is her writing style, which I would describe as having too many words that don't really add much except to muddy the narrative. This was most obvious in the earliest chapters. Just because you could use adjectives and adverbs doesn't mean that you should.
This is why I could barely make it through AD, so you've pretty much told me that I'm wise to skip this book. ;D
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I don't know if I mentioned this or not before but Lara Parker said to me at the festival that she needed to go back and watch the show and implied she never really had before. I don't know if this is because she has gotten feedback that she doesn't know the characters she is writing about or just getting to the realization that she needs to watch the show in order to know the characters.
Nancy
Oh really? Did she watch the parts of the series when Quentin fell wholly in love with Amanda and Daphne? Perhaps we can excuse her for missing the latter storyline, but Angelique was certainly around to taunt Amanda. As as I said, this is only one example for one character.
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Unfortunately, she doesn't. Though it's not true of all her characterizations in TSB, she misses the mark on a few of them. For example, she wrote when introducing Quentin:
An inveterate bachelor, he was the sort of philanderer whose faĤade, Barnabas knew, hid the soul of a man who secretly feared and despised women. He charmed them with ease, and abandoned them just as quickly once he became bored with them. And he made no apologies for his behavior. A sinister and elegant exterior hid an empty shell, callous and compassionless.
Oh really? Did she watch the parts of the series when Quentin fell wholly in love with Amanda and Daphne? Perhaps we can excuse her for missing the latter storyline, but Angelique was certainly around to taunt Amanda. As as I said, this is only one example for one character.
I had a bit of trouble with that introduction as well. Even Dan Ross did a better job at characterizing Quentin in his later novels. I had some serious problems with things that Barnabas did as well. I mean really...
[spoiler]...dropping acid in the hippie commune in the woods?[/spoiler]
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Discuss the book's flaws, yes, but please support it & help keep DS alive!
David
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The other problem I have with it is her writing style, which I would describe as having too many words that don't really add much except to muddy the narrative. This was most obvious in the earliest chapters. Just because you could use adjectives and adverbs doesn't mean that you should.
Yes!! OMG, that's spot on Midnite! I feel the same way, and this is the reason I could NOT get thru AD! It was like reading a Dickens novel! She uses TOO many words, as if she were being PAID by the word, like Dickens was. I got bored with all the descriptive stuff and just wanted her to get to the HEART of the story, which, IMHO, she didn't, at least up to the point where I put it down for good.
I also agree that, by your quote from TSB, that she was way off the mark concerning Quentin. If her description were true, he wouldn't have had all the angst he did regarding Beth, Amanda and Daphne! Let alone he wouldn't have given a fig about what was happening to his family and friends during Leviathan or the summer of 1970. Sheesh! ::)
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Discuss the book's flaws, yes, but please support it & help keep DS alive!
Not trying to pick a fight or anythig okay? But why should I, or any fan, buy something that they don't want because they think it's not worth the money. That seems a little silly to me. I'm more than happy to support the stars in their new endeavors as much as possilbe, and have done so by going to the Frid show at Hofstra, buying most of KLS's books, even some of the non-DS themed ones, buying Marie's, Diana's and David's books, Louie's CD, Nancy's tape, Chris's comics and even one of Lara's books. But I'm not going to throw away good money for something I know is going to be bad. :-
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Please don't get me wrong-- I find descriptive writing very appealing... when it's done well. Mark Rainey uses it to set a mood (which often means scaring the bejeebers out of me), as do many writers of DS fan fic: Nicky/WickedNick comes immediately to mind. But packing in the adjectives feels like a lazy way to stir the senses. I skimmed the first chapter and spotted this:
The blue satin of his inner sanctum bore not even a faint silhouette of his slumbering form.
Not a noun was left unqualfied. The coffin was empty; we get it. I understand that LP had a story to tell and her head was probably bursting with vivid (oops) ideas. But I think she could do better at getting them across, especially with fans waiting in long lines to purchase her books.
I don't mean to harp on the point. I offer this only to explain. :)
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Twenty-some years ago, a little voice said to me, "One day in the future, Midnite is going to need the bejeebers scared out of her. Frequently." So I took it to heart to start writing scary things and haven't looked back since.
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But why should I, or any fan, buy something that they don't want because they think it's not worth the money. That seems a little silly to me. I'm more than happy to support the stars in their new endeavors as much as possilbe, and have done so by going to the Frid show at Hofstra, buying most of KLS's books, even some of the non-DS themed ones, buying Marie's, Diana's and David's books, Louie's CD, Nancy's tape, Chris's comics and even one of Lara's books. But I'm not going to throw away good money for something I know is going to be bad. :-
Think of it as an investment. Look how much people are now getting for Angelique's Descent on Ebay. If I had been smart, I would've purchased two copies, one to keep for my DS memorabalia, and one for future sales, but who knew back then? When I was a kid, I had a Lost In Space lunch box, and the LIS "laser gun" toy set. That lunch box probably cost a few bucks, if that much. I saw one in an antique shop a few years back and the asking price was $1,000. That's a lotta peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches. What happened to my lunch box and toy laser guns? Long gone; probably went into the dump or to some rummage sale. I could've also gotten the LIS robot toy when I was a kid, but didn't want it back then because it had two protruding handles in the back to move the arms in front, and that bugged me. I don't even want to think what it goes for now; I'll cry.
Gerard
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I skimmed the first chapter and spotted this:
The blue satin of his inner sanctum bore not even a faint silhouette of his slumbering form.
Not a noun was left unqualfied. The coffin was empty; we get it.Â
ROTFLMAOPIMP!!!!!!!!!!! That was TOO funny Midnite! [laughing4] [stfl]
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Think of it as an investment. Look how much people are now getting for Angelique's Descent on Ebay.Â
Hmmm....excellant point Gerard! Hadn't really thought about that. Maybe I will purchase it after all! >:D
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I just finished reading "The Salem Branch" last night. In many ways I found it beguiling, though yes, Ms. Parker does give the impression that she hits the old Thesaurus as frequently as
[spoiler]some of the characters, both the DS and her own, took hits of illegal pharmaceuticals[/spoiler]
My understanding is that she was combining some memories of her personal experiences with the unworldly hippie culture and the otherworldly DS. That's a fair gambit and some of it works, like some of "Angelique's Descent" worked, whether or not you agree with the premise of mixing real-world situations with purely DS situations. Her use of psychological insight in both was close to the mark, IMO; however the second book has some problems aside from inaccuracies in detailing the seasonal changes of Maine.Â
There was some spotty editing--- one of the hippy girls' names switches back and forth in the same chapter, for example. OK, perhaps that's forgiveable--- though this is almost half the length of AD, one would think that would have been easy to cull out. But to me, there seemed a confusing sequence of events where it should seem that
[spoiler]Barnabas should have recognized, or acknowledged exactly who David's new girlfriend is[/spoiler]
but whether that's intentional or due to
[spoiler]all the free-wheeling drugging of even the Collins characters[/spoiler]
one can't be sure. Also, I thought at first, that Ms. Parker had somehow confused Carolyn with HALLIE STOKES---
[spoiler]in one of the early 1971 chapters, she refers to both David and Carolyn as "children"[/spoiler]
though later it IS clarified. Not too thrilled with Carolyn's portrayal here in any case.
Also, I realize Ms. Parker was highly influenced by her visits to Salem in recent years, but were ALL those cheesy-sounding attractions around in 1971? And why no mention of something classic like the House of Seven Gables for that matter? (Heck, they mentioned THAT on "Bewitched", way back in the day.)Â
Plus, IMO, the sections that parallel the witch trials
[spoiler]with a SWAT-style raid on the hippy encampment[/spoiler]
bear a lot of quite up-to-date politically-correct influence.... I say no more, but you'll probably catch my drift.Â
Also, it would have paid for Ms. Parker to review the old episodes BEFORE she launched her description of 1692's Miranda Du Val because:
[spoiler]for reasons unknown, Miranda is described as having long, lush BLACK hair, a'la Cassandra perhaps, while in the series, Ms. Parker retained her blonde locks, modestly contained in a Puritan bonnet, in those scenes[/spoiler]Â
This is clearly shown in a screen cap on Lara's own offiical website!!! Not to mention Miranda's ultimate fate, which, if you've watched the series through, I don't have to recap with spoiler warnings here... Maybe to make the story even more in line with what would appear to be socio-political agenda....
However, while I also disagree with her portrayal of Quentin's character---
[spoiler]It's SO pre-1897 flashback![/spoiler]
perhaps because I like tweaking the storylines lines in some twisted ways, I did like how the various love stories played out. I appreciated the irony of the resolution
[spoiler]of Barnabas's treatments--- actually this would explain in part, how Julia might have formulated them--- AND his love life[/spoiler]
though to be honest, IMO, it might make future sequels---- DIFFICULT!
However, in strict justice, it IS a helluva lot better than "Hawkes Harbor"....
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OK, y'all have me curious.
I have no interest in reading The Salem Branch--can somebody PLEASE post the details of the plot, and specifically that outrageous ending, with spoiler coding? I need a good laugh this week.
cheers, G.
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Again, I'm sure that I am in the party-pooper minority. Why can't people just leave Dark Shadows alone? It aired 1225 times. It began in 1966 and ended in 1841 pararell time. A lot of interesting and exciting things happened in between. I wish the show had gone on for many more years, but it did not. It ended on April 2, 1971. Why can't people accept that? I love the show for its characters and storylines (well, some more than others), but also for its actors and familiar scenery and music. Those ended when the show ended. Dark Shadows ended with them. Remakes, audio dramas, and novels might all tell interesting and entertaining stories about the same-named characters, but they are not "Dark Shadows" and never will be.
I have been married for 15 years. My wife and I have a past and are living the present. One day death will us part. When that day comes, our marriage will be ended. If I should live longer and another woman comes along, she and I might start a new marriage. However, it will not be the same marriage, even if she uses my first wife's name, creates accounts of our past life together, and even if we re-live past scenes from my first marriage. We might have just as much fun and it might be just as interesting, but it will not be the same marriage.
I love Dark Shadows for what it was and remains through MPI's videos and DVD's (of which I have them all). Let writers create new books and TV shows about witches, vampires, werewolves, and ghosts, but don't say that they are Dark Shadows.
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OK, y'all have me curious.
I have no interest in reading The Salem Branch--can somebody PLEASE post the details of the plot, and specifically that outrageous ending, with spoiler coding? I need a good laugh this week.
Okay the outrageous ending is.....
[spoiler]Because of Julia's treatments to Barnabas, and apparently injecting herself using the same hypodermic needle she used on Barnabas, their blood gets mixed and Julia rises as a vampire at the end of the book, then returns Barnabas to vampirism and they go on vacation at the end with David and I already forgot her name, but she's the re-incarnation of Miranda Duval.[/spoiler]
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Okay the outrageous ending is.....
Oh My God ! (http://www.dsboards.com/SMF/Smileys/classic/wow.gif)
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Okay the outrageous ending is.....
Oh My God ! (shockeyes smiley)
Quite!
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Glorioski!
But this isn't the first tale I've heard with this theme. There was one in the old Grayson Hall tribute zine, A Gift of Memory, that was both poignant and rather harrowingly told.
Nevertheless, the way Parker handles this sounds beyond absurd, particularly the final punchline. Bleargh!
Thanks, Arashi, for sharing.
G.
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Gott in himmel. Boy, I could just see the Collinsport Players picking up this one and running with it...
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Gott in himmel. Boy, I could just see the Collinsport Players picking up this one and running with it...
Well, after giving the matter some thought (which you all might think is more than it deserves, but a lot of us already spent our $$$ on the book, well both books in some cases, and not all are going to re-sell them on EBay or whatever), I wondered if it was all kind of literary trick on Ms. Parker's part.... My own fan fiction has played around with the concept of how many of the Collinsport problems may have been delusions caused by mere superstition or mental illness or booze or dope or misinterpretation of earthly-- if unusual-- occurrences (brought smack-home to me recently by the recent decease of my next-town neighbor Ed Warren). I suppose Ms. Parker MIGHT intend for people to see some of the incidents in the book as
[spoiler]the results of heavy drug use, particularly the girl Jacqueline (the actual reincarnation of Miranda/Angelique in the story, not her blonde Mum, Antoinette, whom Barnabas THINKS is Ange). The poor kid has literally been on everything since she was BORN and it led to her institutionalization at good old Breezy Bluff--- heheh, I mean WINDCLIFF. By the same token, maybe the climactic scen involving Julia's new little orthodontic anomaly might be attributed to LSD flashbacks on Barn's part.[/spoiler] Â
In short a lot is left unexplained and left to personal interpretation which, perhaps, in other stories might be a plus. Think of it, if you can, as another dimension of Parallel Time, especially (one more spoiler)
[spoiler]Otherwise, I can't see how a 15-year-old kid could be the reincarnation of someone who had just seemed to cease existing a year before, unless you count back to the denouement of Real Time 1841 and skip over the whole Cassandra/ Angelique Rumson period, which makes MY head hurt.[/spoiler]
And the ultimate moral of the story is, our parents were right on when they warned us not to leave our drinks unattended or to accept brownies from strangers. ;D
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I have enjoyed this book, for the most part, and now I have one chapter left (more on that later, I'm sure), but I feel I should share my thoughts on the "descriptive nature" of the writing in the early parts of the book, such as overuse of adjectives and adverbs..."can you say Edward George Bulwer-Lytton?"
For my own personal taste, less is more, and Stephen King knows how to use his adjectives and adverbs to create images that my brain can visualize.
Still, thanks to Lara Parker for carrying the DS story forward. There were times when reading the novel that I was totally captivated by the story, characters and imagery.
Now, on to that last chapter. . .
Brian
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Okay the outrageous ending is.....
What??!!!! Oh my wordy! :o :o
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Perhaps Lara was in a hurry to finish the book in time for the Fest. Watching DS episodes can be quite time consuming as we all know. In researching artwork that I've done for fanzines, I have spent many an hour watching Willie, Willie, Willie but getting to know the other characters pretty darn well too. Lara should have done her research before writing the book. But I bet she wanted it published in time for the 40th Anniversary Fest. Maybe her wallet is a little fatter now.
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I'm near the end--20 pages--but I must share with everyone: for a dramatization of the Salem trials as described in the book, please check out THREE SOVEREIGNS FOR SARAH, a PBS film from 1985 (available on DVD) starring Vanessa Redgrave, Kim Hunter and Phyllis Thaxter. This very moving and historically accurate film also reminds us of the McCarthy hearings of the early 50s (as does THE CRUCIBLE), and, to a lessor degree--since this pre-dates the current administration--the arrogance of the Bush/Cheney/Rove White House. (Perhaps that last connection is what prompted LP to write the book in the first place.) Regardlaess of your politics, please try to see THREE SOVEREIGNS FOR SARAH.
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the McCarthy hearings of the early 50s (as does THE CRUCIBLE)
Possibly a little known fact (?), but The Crucible, written by Arthur Miller, was a thinly veiled dramatization of the McCarthy Hearings. Don't know how many ppl know that. 8)
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I love the Crucible, what a fantastic play.
The movie made me cry, a LOT.
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Okay the outrageous ending is.....
See? What was I saying? LP doesn't really understand or know the DS world. It's ironic considering she was ON THE SHOW! LOL!  >:D
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Please keep in mind that political discussion is not appropriate for DS Forums. Thanks.
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FYI, JFrid played John Proctor in that play at the very first production done at the now famous Williamstown Theater Festival.
Trivia, trivia . . .
Nancy
I love the Crucible, what a fantastic play.
The movie made me cry, a LOT.
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Perhaps Lara was in a hurry to finish the book in time for the Fest. Watching DS episodes can be quite time consuming as we all know. In researching artwork that I've done for fanzines, I have spent many an hour watching Willie, Willie, Willie but getting to know the other characters pretty darn well too. Lara should have done her research before writing the book. But I bet she wanted it published in time for the 40th Anniversary Fest.
KLS said during this year's cast reunion that LP spent 6 years writing "The Salem Branch." However, the earliest time I recall that fans were discussing the book's plot was in 2001 on an earlier incarnation of these boards (when our host was VantageNet), and during the 2005 Fest LP announced that the book was in the publisher's hands (a year before it was released) though I believe she did do some reworking after that, so it may be closer to 5 years. Of course, KLS would never say anything inaccurate, right? Perish the thought! Though in her defense, LP was on stage at the time and did not correct her. But even if we operate on the theory that TSB was 5 years in the making, that's how long the series took to air, and SciFi cut the time in half by airing 2 eps per weekday. So isn't 5 years plenty of time to figure out the DS characters?
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KLS said during this year's cast reunion that LP spent 6 years writing "The Salem Branch." ... Of course, KLS would never say anything inaccurate, right? Perish the thought!
LOL! You so BAD Midnite! >:D But it's true, we all know her 'Pop' said, "Where is it?! Where is it?!" when [spoiler]he 'died on DS![/spoiler]
I love the Crucible, what a fantastic play. The movie made me cry, a LOT.
When I went to the 'Maggie Evans' cottage for the first time after the '97 NY Fest, the ppl that own it, the Campbells (friend's of Bobubas' of course! ;)) told me their son was in The Crucible (movie). He played the minister who comes from the other town to help w/the trials. I had literally just seen the movie like 2 weeks before the Fest so had a high old time talking to his mother about how good he was in the movie, not to mention how cute he was. I think I made a friend for life that day, LOL! His mom is so cool too, letting us traipse through her house and everything, even got in to the swing of things when the Cheep Productions boys were filming a skit there, saying "Bye Pop" when Selby D. Pearson, playing Sam, yelled inside, "See you later Maggie, going to the Blue Whale now!' ;)
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You can be a con guest as a celebrity now Buzz, based on that. you can recreate the moment on stage with dramatic lighting and everything!
All I can think now is what I just heard Natalie say, about her having known Angelique as a child. I prefer the Angelique who grew up in Martinique. Why would someone who had been a witch for a century work as a servant?
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Though in her defense, LP was on stage at the time and did not correct her.
LP must not have heard her. >:D
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Why would someone who had been a witch for a century work as a servant?
The 401-K?
Gerard
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I finished the book this afternoon. First, sorry, Midnight, for bringing politics onto the board--but I must say that the Salem Witch Trials were all about -- in my humble opinion -- politics, and misguided religous fanatics, as DS showed us with Trask, and as LP makes clear in her book.
As for the "last act surprise"...without offering spoilers, the final chapter's revelations, which have been dissed in some board comments, are totally in line with the exposition that we read earlier in the novel, specifically with regards to a certain female character...this is set up very early on, and should not be a surprise to astute readers of the book.
Just my observations and opinions....
Brian
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First, sorry, Midnight, for bringing politics onto the board--but I must say that the Salem Witch Trials were all about -- in my humble opinion -- politics, and misguided religous fanatics, as DS showed us with Trask, and as LP makes clear in her book.
Thanks, Brian. I totally understand the necessity to discuss "The Crucible" and aspects of DS and "The Salem Branch" as political allegory. It's the characterization of current politics that was problematic. It's not about passing judgment on any political stance; bringing personal politics onto a DS board just isn't a good idea. Not that I mind, but I get letters. That'll be on my tombstone:
Here Lies Midnite
She Got Letters
:P
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As for the "last act surprise"...without offering spoilers, the final chapter's revelations, which have been dissed in some board comments, are totally in line with the exposition that we read earlier in the novel, specifically with regards to a certain female character...this is set up very early on, and should not be a surprise to astute readers of the book.
Just my observations and opinions....
I didn't really think it was a surprise, I just thought it wasn't very good.
I mean I really did like Angelique's Descent. I thought it was a very fun and imaginative read, the way LP set up Angelique's childhood. I was kind of let down by TSB. If she writes another novel in the series you BET I will be buying it though.
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Here Lies Midnite
She Got Letters
LOL! Got my chuckle for the day! ;)
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After following the discussion on the board, I had to finish the Salem Branch last night. Wow. That's all I have to say. Well, maybe that's not all.
The prologue and the first half of the book are quite good. If you ignore all of the flowery language and skim-read it for the important parts, the plot is engaging and the mystery of Antoinette is a good one. I was convinced she was Angelique a la Cassandra.
The book begins to really break down when [spoiler]Barnabas and Toni make wild mushroom love in the hippie camp (or was it acid).[/spoiler] Just typing that sentence on the board is ridiculous. The Miranda back-story was very interesting and I went the whole first half picturing and assuming the Miranda of the original DS storyline (in other words Lara Parker/Angelique). To then have the original storyline completely contradicted was just too much for me. I am not into continuity and I don't care if the audios or books are official, I just like them or don't like them. However, this was too much for me. A dark haired, half Native American Miranda?
I don't think she knew how to end the book so she took this wild leap of [spoiler]Julia is a vampire.[/spoiler] My "favorite" part is where Julia explains to Barnabas the plot of the book to make sure that we the readers understand it. I hate it when authors have characters summarize the plot at the end as if we're all too stupid to get it.
Oh well, I guess a degree isn't everything ;)
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The book begins to really break down when [spoiler]Barnabas and Toni make wild mushroom love in the hippie camp (or was it acid).[/spoiler]
Wa.....it a minute! There's SEX in this book??!! Maybe I will buy it, LOL!  >:D
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Oh well, I guess a degree isn't everything
No, it isn't. This is just my personal opinion, but I don't put much stock in degrees in creative writing. There are a lot of things one can teach -- discipline, some technique, a lot of what not to do -- but storytelling is so much more than the ability to put words together to create images. Style and voice are not things that are usually taught; they come from within, and some people are more naturally adept at it than others. Voracious reading of literature; writing every damn day whether you feel like it or not; going through rigorous editorial screening; reading literature; performing your work in front of an audience; having a natural eye for detail, local color, personalities, manners of speaking; maybe reading some more... These are what go into being a professional writer. Some folks are fortunate to start out early with a natural voice; others develop it over a long period of time. While I never frown on furthering one's education in an academic institution, there's no teacher like experience. Learning to edit is as important as being able to write. Not every word is golden. Sometimes you have to toss out a lot of dross to get to the bits that work.
All IMHO opinion, of course. Having been in the business for a while. ;)
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Nothing in the creative writing class I took told me anything. A class won't supply you with priorities or something to say. I don't start learning until I have a deep motivation (which I didn't). Then I have to clear the decks and question everything. The only way to pick your own teachers would be to learn from literature itself i'd think. i'm not sure if any of that meant anything.
I think they all tell you there are basic necessary 'elements' like 'conflict'. Then you see countless stories with manufactured overblown conflict that has no real purpose other than to be a 'necessary element'.
I want to write but I'm the latest bloomer I've ever heard of, and the slowest. I've learned to care about doing writing more than "becoming a writer". Self-editing may take humilty which sometimes has to be knocked into you by nasty life experiences. I've had that. It's hard to shift gears from struggling with a bit of writing, then realizing it's bad or wrong and letting it go.
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No, it isn't. This is just my personal opinion, but I don't put much stock in degrees in creative writing. There are a lot of things one can teach -- discipline, some technique, a lot of what not to do -- but storytelling is so much more than the ability to put words together to create images. Style and voice are not things that are usually taught; they come from within, and some people are more naturally adept at it than others.
You are SO on the mark, Mark, I couldn't agree more! I was an English major, which quite frankly is a useless degree UNLESS you want to teach (which one of my nephews who ALSO holds a BA in English is going to do), and I took several 'writing' courses and didn't learn a damn thing in any of them, except to do whatever the hell I want when I write! >:D
It's so funny to have teachers telling you "don't do this, this or this when you write and NEVER do THAT!" In just about everything I write, whether if it's my short ficition stories or my novel, I broke all the rules, and I don't think it mattered one bit. Ppl who are inclined to write can write, and those that aren't TEACH! Writing comes from inside a person, it can't be learned. ;)
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Ppl who are inclined to write can write, and those that aren't TEACH! Writing comes from inside a person, it can't be learned.
Thanks. I'll tell my students that this afternoon and then I'll quit my job. ::)
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Writing is what I want to go to college for, so this is an interesting subject of conversation..... If I don't go back to school for writing I doubt I'll ever go because it's the only thing that really interests me enough to bother.
I took a creative writing course in high school and it was my favorite class. The teacher never told us specifically what to write about. We had a lot of creative freedom.
I think a person can be both a teacher and a writer - in fact, that's pretty much what I see myself doing.
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Please don't misunderstand my point -- I would never discourage anyone from taking creative writing courses or getting a degree. Higher education is a wonderful thing. My point, though, is that a degree -- or a number of courses -- does not a writer make. Particularly for people who are naturally inclined to writing, or have that great desire, creative writing courses can be great. I had a few in high school and college, and they were my favorite because they were very liberating for my imagination. But as with any course, a creative writing class is only as good as 1) what the instructor brings to the table and 2) what you, as the student, bring to the table.
One of the failings that I tend to see when interacting with people who've gone through such courses was touched on earlier -- that is, throw conflict into everything. When I was editing Deathrealm, I could often pick out the manuscripts from people who'd been taking creative writing courses because there was always a bunch of needless antagonism between characters (not necessarily between protagonist/antagonist) -- as if that's an automatic tension-producer. I've got news for you. Most of the time, it just annoys the reader.
Conflict isn't something to throw willy-nilly into the mix. It's got to be well thought-out, and it has to make sense within the context of the story. All too often, in the hands of novices, the conflict is about as meaningful as Michael Palin paying John Cleese to have a five-minute argument.
Oh, yes it is.
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All too often, in the hands of novices, the conflict is about as meaningful as Michael Palin paying John Cleese to have a five-minute argument.
Oh, yes it is.
That's great! Nice to get confirmation on an opinion I'd just been saying within my own head up until now, too. But a lot of those novices go on to become paid Hollywood writers apparently. It's got to be possible to teach many valuable things about writing, but public schools can kill off one's desire to learn anything.
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Please don't misunderstand my point -- I would never discourage anyone from taking creative writing courses or getting a degree. Higher education is a wonderful thing. My point, though, is that a degree -- or a number of courses -- does not a writer make.
This too was my point, sorry if I wasn't clear, or if anyone was offended by the remark about teaching. I think teachers are wonderful, SELFLESS ppl who chose to educate the masses rather than make millions doing something more ego-centric w/their lives. They are also GROSSLY underpaid IMHO! It makes me sick actually when I hear actors and sports figures bitching about how many millions they'll get a year when teachers, nurses, police officers and firefighters do the REAL work and have no money to show for it. But I digress...
Although I don't feel I really LEARNED about writing from any of my writing classes nor did I learn TO write because of them, I thoroughly enjoyed them all because, well, I was able to WRITE! Homework was never more fun. ;) So, to Barnabas'Bride, definately GO TO COLLEGE and major in English if you want, and since you want to teach as well as write, that's the right major for you! But just be aware that you won't really learn HOW to write, that's something I feel ppl can either do or not naturally. But you can certainly brush up on any skills you already have.  8)
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Just as there are bad writers, there are bad teachers. You can love doing either thing but not be very good at it in spite of your best efforts. A college degree of any kind means you have mastered an understanding of what your craft involves and how it can be done. That's it. Good writing is a gift as good teaching is a gift. I have taught creative writing for several years and been told I am a good teacher. I have sit in on other creative writing classes taught by teachers who are not very good at their craft. They want to be, but aren't. Teaching is very much an artistic craft, in my opinion. That ability to transcend text and technique to inspire, motivate and harness the creative spirit of students so they can bring their talent to the page is very much a gift.
Not everyone who teaches has that gift to teach.
Nancy
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Here Lies Midnite
She Got Letters
LOL! Got my chuckle for the day! ;)
Buzz, you beat me to it...I, too, LOL--okay--ROFLMAO--about Midnight's epitaph!
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Here Lies Midnite
She Got Letters
LOL! Got my chuckle for the day! ;)
Buzz, you beat me to it...I, too, LOL--okay--ROFLMAO--about Midnight's epitaph!
And Midnight: I'm still laughing. Thanks for making my night!!
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I don't understand why one is exclusive of the other at all. Stephen King comes to mind as he was not only an English but a successful writer some of us might have heard of. ;D Joe Salvatore (Craig's boyfriend) is a writer, actor and a teacher at NYU; I have also made my living at times (and still to a degree) writing and teaching. Both writing and teaching are important to me. Joe's website takes on this old adage in the opening part of his website (http://www.joesalvatore.com as most of those involved in working in a craft want to share their knowledge and experience with those wanting to get involved. Who wants to learn from a teacher who has no idea of how life really works when one wants to be an actor, writer, whatever?
Nancy
Ppl who are inclined to write can write, and those that aren't TEACH! Writing comes from inside a person, it can't be learned. ;)
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Teaching the arts is not a linear process and a good writing teacher understands this and knows what kind of tools and exercises will sharpen the skills of students. Like with any subject, you have lousy teachers who haven't a clue as to how to teach writing to students. You can make someone who doesnt have the intuitive sense of a writer to write well. You can teach them not to make common grammatical mistakes and that sort of thing but that is the extent of it. A good writing teacher knows how to teach student writers to tap into their imagination.
Nancy
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Of course they can! They do. Many of the teachers and guest teachers at universities and colleges are published authors, playwrights, journalists and poets. Many good actors and playwrights I knew in New York not only excelled at their respective crafts but also taught at the theater schools or through the arts council programs placing artists in residence at public and private schools throughout New York City. They are separate gifts: teaching and being a writer or whatever in the arts. Some people are not good teachers but excellent at whatever they do. The teaching artists are the ones who will keep their respective crafts alive in the classroom.
I don't know how many people here know this but George DiCenzo, associate producer on DS and a known actor, is considered one of the best acting teachers and dramaturgs in the country. I had heard about his being a good acting teacher but I found out about his work as a dramaturg through RJ Jamison, when she researching her book on Graysonl.
I took classes from Uta Hagan, a renown actress and teacher in New York. She certainly could do both. Just because there are a few lousy or ineffectual writing teachers doesn't mean no one is capable of being both a good teacher and a good writer, same with acting, etc
Nancy
I think a person can be both a teacher and a writer - in fact, that's pretty much what I see myself doing.
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Unfortunately, she doesn't. Though it's not true of all her characterizations in TSB, she misses the mark on a few of them. For example, she wrote when introducing Quentin:
An inveterate bachelor, he was the sort of philanderer whose faĤade, Barnabas knew, hid the soul of a man who secretly feared and despised women. He charmed them with ease, and abandoned them just as quickly once he became bored with them. And he made no apologies for his behavior. A sinister and elegant exterior hid an empty shell, callous and compassionless.
Oh really? Did she watch the parts of the series when Quentin fell wholly in love with Amanda and Daphne? Perhaps we can excuse her for missing the latter storyline, but Angelique was certainly around to taunt Amanda. As as I said, this is only one example for one character.
I had a bit of trouble with that introduction as well. Even Dan Ross did a better job at characterizing Quentin in his later novels. ...
I agree with both of you -- that aggravated me too. Now, given, I have run into a lot of fans who DO think that Q is that way, not taking into account the maturation of the character from the self centered rake of the first 1897 eps. However, I gave Lara credit for better judgement than that. Then again, perhaps she gets her impressions from fans as much as the eps, since from what a number of posters have said her episode watching has been somewhat limited.
As to the dysentery of the adverbs, hey I am used to Dickens and the Brontes, so that probably sailed right past me.
On the whole, I found the book interesting, more so, I must admit in the historical portions. Then again, its open territory as to how to write Miranda, Judah, et al; not enough established that you can say one way or the other that something's off.
As to actors writing novels about their characters, my friend Toni (who is NOT in DS fandom) described it very well when an actor from a show called Blake's 7 decided to write a novel (and got it published) about his character in the show.Read better fanfiction, read worse fanfiction. Its {actor name's} fanfiction.
I think that covers this novel too. Some stuff I could see, some stuff made my teeth hurt, and the ending did not appeal.
On the other hand, in talking to LP the feeling I got is that she is really interested in turning out something that appeals to the fans. Not something I can exactly describe, but there's a type of questions a writer asks when they just want you to tell them you like it -- and the kind they ask when they care that you enjoyed it and want to find out what would make you like it better.
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I am only half way through the book and am enjoying it very much. I know I blasted Mz Parker for not researching the DS characters. But she seems to have researched everything and anything to do with the Salem trials. She has the 17th century verbage down pat, as far as I can tell. Kudos to Lara. I think she's done a nifty job here. It is my opinion that she could have done a bit better with the Barnabas character. But on the whole, her book is pretty darn good. And I can't wait for the ending that you all have marvelously hidden from those of us that haven't gotten there yet.
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Having read AD when it first came out and having found it relatively boring through the first 2/3 of it, I wasn't expecting much from Salem Branch. It is clear to me that Lara Parker is simply using DS as a vehicle for her writing, knowing DS fans will buy the book. Not that I am criticizing this at all - lots of former actors/actresses try to reap the benefits of the things they have done in the past that have gerned a large fan following. If I was in LP's shows I'd probably do the same thing if I wanted my book to sell. However, I still feel that LP has a duty to the characters to make them authentic and not to just use them as ciphers or to insert them so as to namecheck the important DS figures (Quentin, in particular, suffers from this in Salem Branch IMO).
That being said, here are my thoughts on Salem Branch, both good and bad:
Good
- Less gratuitous sex than in AD. While the sex scenes are (IMO) still unnecessary, they, at least, all serve a purpose within the context of Salem Branch
- Decent characterization of some DS characters, such as Roger Collins - Personally, I thought it was spot on, and the only character in the novel that I could actually hear "speaking" the lines given them
- The courtroom scenes in 1692, particularly [spoiler]Judah's trial and Miranda's hanging.[/spoiler]
Bad:
- The flowery language - yes, I know LP has a degree in Creative writing, but I don't need to be reminded in every sentence. Most overused phrase (IMO): [Someone's] skirt billowed, floated, was lifted, dragged, etc.
- The mischaracterizations and plot contrivances: [spoiler]Barnabas' interest in Persian rugs, his fighting with the police to the point of severely injuring one of them, getting shot and then being allowed to go free with no one stopping him, his falling in love with Toni, etc.[/spoiler]
- The "feel" - I got the impression that this was LP trying to show readers things she likes or has knowledge of. It screamed to me: "Hey, I like Indian lore, so here's a story" and "Hey, guess where I went on my summer vacation? Salem!" and finally, "I was a hippie and we tripped on acid and had lots of sex, so DS characters should, too!"
Overall, it was, to me, more of a LP telling her interests story with DS characters in it. I have to say the "twist" ending didn't bother me, but the execution of it did, [spoiler]particularly when Julia (who I am assuming is a vampire and is dead) slits her throat so Barnabas can feast on her blood¢â‚¬¦odd, that.[/spoiler]
In short, I'd stick with the Dreams of the Dark and Labyrinth of Souls, both of which capture DS very well IMO.
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Hi Brian,
the scene you mention with [spoiler]Julia slitting her throat so Barnabas can drink her blood[/spoiler] is a steal/paraphrase of a scene in Dracula where [spoiler]Dracula slits open his chest and has Mina drink from his blood--from this point on, there is a psychic link between the two, which is eventually exploited by Van Helsing.[/spoiler]
Also, I seriously doubt whether Parker did much in the way of being a hippie, dropping acid and turning on back in the Flower Power era (btw, the phrase Flower Power was completely passe by 1969) since she was raising two small children and, in between working on DS, pretty much being a "homemaker" (a word I always found intriguing).
Best, Steve
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I completely disagree with the take that Lara isn't a talented writer who engages us in a deep way through her latest novel. Quite the contrary. I not having seen the show until I met Peter am a late adopter to all things DS. I found her writing fresh and exciting. This book would make an excellent movie.Â
I find the people who take issue with it mostly fall into the category of preservationist. They want the old DS back. They quite simply can't embrace that Jonathan Frid isn't the only person in the world who can play Barnabas. He isn't and I am sure he wont be...wheter it is on CD, screen, or on the pages of a book like Lara's.
If Lara had written Barnabas approaches his victim while she screams for help and then the chapter ends (or we go to commercial) without a further descriptive of the way he bit her, the color and aesthetic of the attack, etc... this book would not hold up to others of its kind. That isn't flowery it is called exposition. It is what every good writer does. Lara happens to excel at this.
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I find the people who take issue with it mostly fall into the category of preservationist. They want the old DS back. They quite simply can't embrace that Jonathan Frid isn't the only person in the world who can play Barnabas. He isn't and I am sure he wont be...wheter it is on CD, screen, or on the pages of a book like Lara's.
OK I need to speak here as an orginal viewer... I don't need to have the old DS back I am a realist and know that isn't going to happen. I personnaly like the new 2004 version of Barnabas...with that being said.....LP's lates offering was not to my liking because of her over use of discriptions like leaves.....really does it take 5 pages to describe leaves? I may exagerate but not by much. but I do agree with drwhotrades that is sounded semi autobiographical. May I point out that having children never stopped people from doing drugs and having free love.
but then this is IMHO and if we all agreed well it would be a dull place
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Well, Lara has said that she and her family did go to a hippie camp in upper state NYC during some weekends when she was on DS....I agree, perhaps unconventional for a young mother, but times were different then, and I seem to remember she and her first husband, an artist, did live a somewhat "folklifish" lifestyle back then, doing crafts and playing music in the home, etc...anybody else recall this??
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Ldy Annne I understand what you are saying. I of course respect your opinion. By the way I am sitting here looking out my window and I just noticed that the leaves are starting to turn colors. I was surpised at first even though this is the first day of Autumn. Then i remembered I had taken two Xanax pills only moments before. I then offered myself freely to my husband. I can assure you there were no children present. :)
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Another note, certainly someone else can play Barnabas in another version of DS, never saw the 2004 pilot, but I did like Ben Cross in the 1991 series. My feeling as I think I said in another thread is that if you are doing reinactments of DS with the original cast, then in that context I only see Jonathan as doing Barnabas, but of course I think most fanfic, Ds novels, etc, are based on the original series and characters, though I do remember a few fan fiction stories in The World of DS (I hope Kathy Resch puts another issue of that out one day), where it was based on the 1991 series characters....
I liked both of Lara's novels and will willingly buy her books, but I do admit to perhaps preferring Angelique's Descent to the new one, but like I said I happily bought both...
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By the way I am sitting here looking out my window and I just noticed that the leaves are starting to turn colors. I was surpised at first even though this is the first day of Autumn. Then i remembered I had taken two Xanax pills only moments before.Â
Ah, the joys of PRESCRIPTION drugs! ;D Whenever I need a refill on my pain pills for my back, whoo-doggie! I have a GOOD time on those. ;)
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the scene you mention with [spoiler]Julia slitting her throat so Barnabas can drink her blood[/spoiler] is a steal/paraphrase of a scene in Dracula where [spoiler]Dracula slits open his chest and has Mina drink from his blood--from this point on, there is a psychic link between the two, which is eventually exploited by Van Helsing.[/spoiler]
Thanks for the clarification! It's been a long time since I've read Dracula, so I didn't recall that...it still doesn't make much sense to me though...
Also, I seriously doubt whether Parker did much in the way of being a hippie, dropping acid and turning on back in the Flower Power era (btw, the phrase Flower Power was completely passe by 1969) since she was raising two small children and, in between working on DS, pretty much being a "homemaker" (a word I always found intriguing).
I was just basing my thoughts on Lara Parker's comments that Antoinette in Salem Branch is based a lot on how she lived her life during the making of DS. Lara Parker has commented on how she lived in the woods and swam naked, etc...I just extrapolated from there :)
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I agree with you, John. Jonathan Frid isn't the only person capable of portraying an effective Barnabas. After viewing several portrayals of the character by different actors one might prefer Frid's portrayal. I suppose it is easier for me and others in the theater (such as yourself, John) who regularly see different actors play the same role.
Nancy
I find the people who take issue with it mostly fall into the category of preservationist. They want the old DS back. They quite simply can't embrace that Jonathan Frid isn't the only person in the world who can play Barnabas. He isn't and I am sure he wont be...wheter it is on CD, screen, or on the pages of a book like Lara's.
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Ldy Annne I understand what you are saying. I of course respect your opinion. By the way I am sitting here looking out my window and I just noticed that the leaves are starting to turn colors. I was surpised at first even though this is the first day of Autumn. Then i remembered I had taken two Xanax pills only moments before. I then offered myself freely to my husband. I can assure you there were no children present. :)
LMAO.... John you always make me laugh! Save me a leaf or a Xanax what ever... XXOO
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I bought the book at the fest and had LP sign it. I agree with Gerard to think of it as an investment.
It was INCREDIABLY difficult for me to get through Angelique's Descent. I think I put it down at least 4 times, and picked it back up after a two week break. Midnite's comments about LP being quite wordy are spot on. She is QUITE WORDY. I particularly hate it when an author describes the same thing a thousand times in the book, unless, of course, it is supposed to be some sort of symbolism. LP described the woods and the leaves on the ground too many times for me to count! And though I have wracked my brain, I cannot pick out the symbolism here, if there even is any, which I don't think there is. Anyone have any ideas?
I didn't hate the ending, but I didn't like it either. I was appalled by a number of Barnabas' actions, those of you who have read it know what I'm talking about. And I thought the hippie's were totally out of place and shattered the universe of DS by taking away the "escape" factor of it and bringing it into the real world. And the ending, IMO, completely shattered the relationship between the two characters involved. The only thing I did really like was how she portrayed David growing up--going through teenage things. Love, lust, etc.
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I enjoyed the book. My main problem was the lack of continuity in ONE IMPORTANT MATTER just to justify a plot twist at the end of the book ...... Barnabas was NO LONGER A VAMPIRE upon his return to 1971 from 1840. Angelique had lifted the curse before she died. Lara Parker either: 1. Did not do her homework researching the episodes 2: Just did not care about continuity 3. This is a Parallel Time story in yet another dimension of Parallel Time.
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Barnabas was NO LONGER A VAMPIRE upon his return to 1971 from 1840. Angelique had lifted the curse before she died.
Yea, I had a feeling about this too. But I wasn't sure as I haven't seen those episodes in quite a while. I'm currently rewatching them so I'm sure I'll see it soon. Apparently LP didn't watch enough of the episodes during her research.
BTW, is anyone writing to her about any of these? Both her and KLS have said that if you have a problem or issue or idea for or about their books to write them and tell them so they don't make the same mistake twice. I'm hoping that not too many people wrote to her after AD.
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I too thought the hippie references destroyed that time wall that the series so thoroughly employs.
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BTW, is anyone writing to her about any of these? Both her and KLS have said that if you have a problem or issue or idea for or about their books to write them and tell them so they don't make the same mistake twice.
Hmmm, somehow I don't think LP will be as receptive to constructive criticism about her book as KLS will be. But then, KLS is a better writer than LP is.  ;D
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Hmmm, somehow I don't think LP will be as receptive to constructive criticism about her book as KLS will be.
I don't know about that. How many errors in the KLS books have been corrected in subsequent reprints? >:D
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I don't know about that. How many errors in the KLS books have been corrected in subsequent reprints?
Well, I've only read her DS books (Scrapbook, Companion etc...) and I can't remember if she mentioned in either about how [spoiler]her "pop" died on the show,[/spoiler] but yeah, that was a mistake! >:D What were some of the others?
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Hmmm, somehow I don't think LP will be as receptive to constructive criticism about her book as KLS will be. But then, KLS is a better writer than LP is. ;D
I'd have to say that I agree with this. LP seemed like a nice enough person, should you get to know her, but I'm not sure she'd enjoy reading page after page after page of criticism such as this. I'm not sure anyone would. But due care must be taken when one is writing a book in such a niche market like this, with fans as devoted as us!
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Barnabas was NO LONGER A VAMPIRE upon his return to 1971 from 1840. Angelique had lifted the curse before she died.
Yea, I had a feeling about this too. But I wasn't sure as I haven't seen those episodes in quite a while. I'm currently rewatching them so I'm sure I'll see it soon. Apparently LP didn't watch enough of the episodes during her research.
Brandon Collins and BARNABASLIVES,
Whether or not Barnabas was still a vampire in his final appearance has been much debated in fandom. Though Angelique lifted the curse in 1840, the present-day Barnabas [spoiler]was actually under Jeb's vampiric curse. It seems to me (though even this is up to interpretation) that it was nighttime when Barnabas, Julia and Stokes returned via the staircase in 1971,[/spoiler] so that's no help.
Sam Hall made it quite clear in his TV Guide article that he believed Barnabas was still a vampire when the series ended. And if fan fic is any indication, most of the writers whose stories I've read believe the same thing.
I think LP got this one right.
Here's something else from TSB that perhaps should have been caught during the editing process. SPOILERS!!! While visiting Salem, David and Barnabas spotted a crying Antoinette at a gravesite. After she left, Barnabas read the inscription on the tombstone: it was an infant of Miranda du Val's, who died in 1692. Then, at Gallows Hill (from p. 112)--
"... Mirand du Val. Hanged October 31, 1692. 'If you take away my life, God will give you blood to drink.'"
Barnabas stopped and stared long and hard at those words. God will give you blood to drink. A cold shudder ran down his spine. Who was this Miranda du Val and what sort of innocent victim had she been? What a vivid and remarkable thing for her to say. God will give you blood to drink. Of course, it was a curse! From the gallows, in her last breath, she had cursed those who hanged her.
I know that Barnabas can be dense at times, but a light should have gone on in his head. Julia told Barnabas about a girl known only as Miranda who testified against Judah Zachery in 1692. Later, after Angelique lifted the curse, he told the witch, "You were Miranda," recalling the newspaper stories that Julia had told him about.
Curse... Miranda... blood... 1692... witch... Angelique. Duh, Barnabas. I think the name Miranda should have been instantly recognizable to him.
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I particularly hate it when an author describes the same thing a thousand times in the book, unless, of course, it is supposed to be some sort of symbolism. LP described the woods and the leaves on the ground too many times for me to count! And though I have wracked my brain, I cannot pick out the symbolism here, if there even is any, which I don't think there is. Anyone have any ideas?
I think the recurring theme of leaves is intentional, though I agree that it got old. Fast. The Collins money originated with the Salem branch of the family tree, and you know how the Collinses love to dwell on their bloodlines and family history. She explains the symbolism herself at one point; I'll see if I can find it...
Ah, p. 97-- Barnabas to David: "We are a special family. We are all leaves on the same tree. And we know and accept that. Our ancestors are always with us, watching over us."
Or maybe it's just Autumn, lol. ;)
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Ah, p. 97--Â Barnabas to David:Â "We are a special family. We are all leaves on the same tree. And we know and accept that. Our ancestors are always with us, watching over us."
Yup. Leaves watch each other's backs. Well-known fact.
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I liked the book. I think it's fun that LP is interested enough in DS to consider putting a story together. Kudos to her!
I also think that it was published because of her name and association with DS. As stated before, she uses far too many adjectives, etc, etc. But I give her a thumbs up for continuing the saga and wish her the best of luck in future endeavors in this fold.
Now you want to know what I really think?
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i just started the book yesterday so i'll reserve judgement until i'm finished however...
there are few glaring implausabilities right off the bat.
[spoiler]barnabas as persian rug salesman and "poor relation"?i think not.
and elizabeth would never,ever open up collinwood to tourist groups.ever.[/spoiler]
as someone else pointed out i'm not sure how familiar lara parker really is today with these characters.
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there are few glaring implausabilities right off the bat.
[spoiler]and elizabeth would never,ever open up collinwood to tourist groups.ever.[/spoiler]
I completely FORGOT about that! Seriously, I think they'd sell the last scrap of furniture in the house [spoiler]before they would ever let anyone inside for a tour![/spoiler]
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I've never read either of the Lara Parker books because they haven't been published in braille. The first one has been made available in an Ebook form, but I don't have the necessary software yet. Maybe soon I'll be able to, then I can form a proper opinion. ;D
An Ebook for Angelique's Descent? I'm intrigued, Sunny. Where did you hear about this?
Judy
[angl]
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[spoiler]and elizabeth would never,ever open up collinwood to tourist groups.ever.[/spoiler]
I completely FORGOT about that! Seriously, I think they'd sell the last scrap of furniture in the house [spoiler]before they would ever let anyone inside for a tour![/spoiler]
On first glance I would agree. But then again, I just remembered all the "stately homes" and castles in the UK, owned by very old and proud families, which are open to tour groups. Bet they never thought they'd be doing that either, so Elizabeth's not doing that might not be as open as shut as we would think.
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please forgive me if i get very opinionated here.
but i absolutely loathed this book.
hated it.
it's vulgar.it's crude.it's amateurish.
breathtaking in it's sheer awfulness.bad fanfiction written by someone who knows little about the show...except that she was intimately involved with it.
it would have infuriated me had it not been so laughably bad.
nothing about this book said "dark shadows" to me except the names.characters like elizabeth,carolyn,roger and quentin were mentioned perfunctorialy as a way to establish collinwood as the location but otherwise they were not involved in the plot at all.why lara parker felt the need to set up as backdrop a squalid hippie camp and charge the whole tone with sexual references and drug references and references to people's bodily functions i cannot guess.
as someone pointed out here perhaps ms.parker doesn't understand her subject matter as much as one would think.collinwood needs to stand as a world apart.an idealized place removed from the sordid realities of the world.it's naivity elemental to it's charm.the genteel world of an old monied family.well mannered,well spoken,well dressed people.not dirty,drug taking,sexually indescriminate hippies who use the woods as a latrine(a point ms.parker felt compelled to mention repeatedly).
some passages were dull,others made me squeemish.some episodes so overwrought they bordered on hysterical while others were laughable in their imagery.
ms.parker autograghed this at the fest and i understand her books can become collectables.so i'll put this in the closet with the rest of my memorabilia...otherwise i would have tossed it right in the trash. [hall2_lipsrsealed]
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bad fanfiction
Two words that I've yet to see anyone else use in reviews of this book:
Mary Sue
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please forgive me if i get very opinionated here.
but i absolutely loathed this book. Â hated it. Â it's vulgar.it's crude.it's amateurish. Â breathtaking in it's sheer awfulness.bad fanfiction written by someone who knows little about the show...except that she was intimately involved with it. Â it would have infuriated me had it not been so laughably bad.
nothing about this book said "dark shadows" to me except the names.characters like elizabeth,carolyn,roger and quentin were mentioned perfunctorialy as a way to establish collinwood as the location but otherwise they were not involved in the plot at all.why lara parker felt the need to set up as backdrop a squalid hippie camp and charge the whole tone with sexual references and drug references and references to people's bodily functions i cannot guess.
as someone pointed out here perhaps ms.parker doesn't understand her subject matter as much as one would think.collinwood needs to stand as a world apart.an idealized place removed from the sordid realities of the world.it's naivity elemental to it's charm.the genteel world of an old monied family.well mannered,well spoken,well dressed people.not dirty,drug taking,sexually indescriminate hippies who use the woods as a latrine(a point ms.parker felt compelled to mention repeatedly).
some passages were dull,others made me squeemish.some episodes so overwrought they bordered on hysterical while others were laughable in their imagery. Â ms.parker autograghed this at the fest and i understand her books can become collectables.so i'll put this in the closet with the rest of my memorabilia...otherwise i would have tossed it right in the trash.
Don't hold back mscbryk, tell us how you really feel!  LOL!  [hall2_wink]  Once again I'm GLAD I didn't waste my $20!  Or the time it would have taken to get it autographed!  Give me a story written by any FAN over this any day. [hall2_cool]
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bad fanfiction
Two words that I've yet to see anyone else use in reviews of this book: Mary Sue.
OMG! Don't tell me she put HERSELF in the book too! [hall2_undecided]
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The irony is that S.E. Hinton's would-have-been DS novel was rejected for many of the same reasons a lot of DS fans don't like the Lara Parker DS novel--- Multiple and in some cases, objectionable sexual and body function references, interference of the the outside world in some pure "Brigadoon" of the DS-verse (though this doesn't bother ME particularly), strong lauguage, behavior unbecoming to DS characters according to what we have been accustomed on the older program, drug usage....Â
The difference being that this "Mary Sue",-- or Sue (S.E.'s real given name), thanks to her previous repute as a writer, was able to "file off the serial numbers" as they say (though with uneven results) and submitted it as HAWKES HARBOR, which, apparently, was a modest bestseller in spite of mixed reviews--- not bad for a formerly prominent writer who was out of the business for over a decade.Â
I didn't care for some of the obvious mistakes or changes Ms. Parker made to canon which should have been very quick and easy to correct--- just ask a fan!--- thus freeing up more time for her historical research, which appears to have been accurate enough. However, in addtion to DS, I have read much from Ira Levin, the late Tom Tryon, and earlier in his career, Stephen King, all of whom have mixed modern-day dilemmas with tradtional horror / suspense themes, and whose characters move between these worlds. There is some genuinely decent, genuinely fan-written DS fan-fiction, both online and for sale, that does the same.
Perhaps with more stringent editing (all that leaf activity) and more input from DS fans who seem to have a FAQ database in their brains, this could have been a better book. But it's not that horrible--- I'll probably read it again to pick up anything I missed the first time..
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The one thing I could never get into was this whole Barnabas-and-Julia-deciding-to-plan-on-finally-getting-married thing. To me, that came clear out of the blue. It's clear from the "canon" that while Julia did have it for him, Barnabas never had those intentions for her. He eventually did grow very affectionate for her and even came to love her, but only as a friend or as his sister, and he made that abundantly clear. Julia finally accepted that and moved on with her romantic life. It would've made far more sense to have her find a middle-aged Jewish lawyer who was ready to settle down and have them move to Boca Rotan, Florida to start their lives.
Gerard
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I haven't read The Salem Branch but I am enjoying everyone's comments very much.Â
mscbryk, your comments about the book reminded me of Lara's Q&A at Ed Lambese's 2002 Halloweenathon. At the time she was still working on the book (back then I think the working title was Barnabas's Descent) and she discussed at length how fascinated she was by the idea of a vampire becoming human, realizing his limitations, and deciding it was better to be a vampire again. She specifically mentioned and seemed to be particularly enthralled with Anne Rice's Tale of the Body Thief in which the vampire Lestat temporarily becomes human and finds it's not as great as he remembered it. I have read this book, and in it Rice goes into great physiological detail about Lestat's first visit to the toilet in 300 years, his physical symptoms from an illness, and a sexual liason with the purpose of highlighting how messy and miserable it is to be alive. I think it's likely that this book may have influenced Parker's inclusion of all those bodily functions that you mentioned. Since that's not exactly my first choice of reading content either [sick], I'm glad I steered away from TSB.Â
ProfStokes
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I also disliked the book but I didn't care much for her other DS book either. The characters were unrecognizable even Angelique and Barnabas. The only working knowlege she seemed to have with the characters were their names.
ProfStokes, I was hoping you would read it just for your keen insights but I don't think it is worthy of your time. I wish I had stayed at Barnes and Noble and read it for free. That's what I did with Hawkes Harbor.
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Two words that I've yet to see anyone else use in reviews of this book:
Mary Sue
OMG! ::laughing:: It is TOTALLY Mary Sue, yet she actually played several characters in the story! And I can't remember if it was TSB or AD, but I got quite annoyed over time with the gajillion descriptions of the color of Angelique's eyes.
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From time to time, DS did have topical references like man going to the moon, radiation, the second world war, etc.
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did lara parker pull a "mary sue" here?that's too funny.
i guess i'm not that familiar with fan fiction.
i never thought about it but when ms.parker is describing antoinette she is of course decribing an idealized version of herself.too funny.
while it is true that the show made occasional references to the topics of the day in general they steered clear of them.collinwood is actually a pretty "square" place when you think about it.this of course probably had as much to do with it's advertisers as anything else.a daytime drama relied heavily on ad dollars from such housewife friendly products as floor wax and laundry detergent.so lots of references to the drug culture and the sexual revoltion were out.
in my opinion this remove is what gives the show alot of it's charm and one of the many reasons that i found this book to be completely out of whack.
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in my opinion this remove is what gives the show alot of it's charm and one of the many reasons that i found this book to be completely out of whack.
I so like OMIGOD totally agree with this! lol! The whole hippie scene present in the book was definitely unwelcome, and when LP originally spoke about it at the fest this year, she even said that she included it because it was something she had experimented with/something that she had gone through! YUCK! Keep your non/unmentionables to yourself lady!
I said earlier that the hippies completely took away from the universe that DS created, and many others have said it as well. DS is used as an "escape" from the "real world" by many people, and this completey shattered it! I prefer to stick to my DVDs and other various items for canon stuff. [female_skull] (Despite my constant usage of this thing I totally don't want to wear a wig! lol)
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This is moving off topic a little bit, but I'm interested in how Lara Parker's novels compare to some of the other instances of actors writing fiction based on their characters. I'm not a big Star Trek fan, but I know that Shatner has had a hand in co-writing some novels based on the series. Are there other instances of this happening? Has there been a case of another actor writing solo about his/her character? How were these efforts received in their respective fandoms? Have Mary Sue comparisons been drawn in those instances?
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I just bought this book at a local bookstore last weekend and just got to reading a few chapters. I think it's pretty good so far. I especially like the Miranda du Val chapters (two so far). I don't know, I actually like the descriptions and the whole communing with nature as a witch in the 1690's.
One thing that I do not like so far is the relationship between Barnabas and Julia (in 1970's chapters). I find it unbelievable that they would become more than best friends. (Barnabas and Willie, yes, but not in this story) Also, WHY is Julia curing Barnabas's vampirism? I was under the impression that there was NO vampirism to cure?
Oh well, other than that, I am glad just to be reading something that is both a continuation of the show, and not a fanfiction (although I have seen the arguments that it IS a fanfiction, however, if this is the case, then the entire works of Anne Rice should be classified as fanfiction.)
I did notice something though. Everywhere and everything causes leaves to move, in every possible way. Cars cause leaves to fly, digging makes leaves fall in holes, and leaves turn colors of gemstones. Is it overkill, I don't think so (so far). I am still hoping I will see the symbolism once I have finished the book.
All in all, I think it is a GOOD story. Once I have read more than five chapters, I will be able to make a more knowledgable review.
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Oh well, other than that, I am glad just to be reading something that is both a continuation of the show, and not a fanfiction (although I have seen the arguments that it IS a fanfiction, however, if this is the case, then the entire works of Anne Rice should be classified as fanfiction.)
One poster, I believe, called it fanfiction, and I suppose it is in the sense that LP did not have any hand in creating the series or its characters. However, it is a professional novel, and this is why I'm so critical of it, just as I would point a finger at Anne Rice (whose characters are completely original, btw, so I don't get your analogy) if she were guilty of making the same writing mistakes. Fans are standing in long lines to purchase this book, and for the money I feel she should have done better. And I have read better [free] fanfic on the net.
I did offer that The Salem Branch qualifies as a Mary Sue, though I never explained that comment. LP introduced an original character (Antoinette)-- a stand-in for herself who is overly perfect-- while the flaws of other fictional characters, who are not her creations, are emphasized. The author even admits in Q&As to providing Antoinette with some of her own personal experiences.
I did notice something though. Everywhere and everything causes leaves to move, in every possible way. Cars cause leaves to fly, digging makes leaves fall in holes, and leaves turn colors of gemstones. Is it overkill, I don't think so (so far). I am still hoping I will see the symbolism once I have finished the book.
Ha! Yes, the autumn leaves. We discussed that in the preceding pages of this topic. It does get quite annoying, at least that's my be-leaf. ::)
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It just occurred to me that perhaps poor Lara suffers from "leaf envy" because she lives in California.
I know I would be sad to live through an October without leaves.......[vryevl]
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It just occurred to me that perhaps poor Lara suffers from "leaf envy" because she lives in California.
I know I would be sad to live through an October without leaves.......[vryevl]
LOL. You know, the sad thing is that she warned us about the tree imagery. Ever since her book has had a title, at DS events, she would smile and say, "It's about trees." Most of us simply assumed it was a bad pun on the title. Turns out, it wasn't. [hall2_wink]
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OMG, MsCriseyde - I LOVE the new Darth Vader/Toaster Oven avatar/text!! Hilarious!! [stfl]
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OMG, MsCriseyde - I LOVE the new Darth Vader/Toaster Oven avatar/text!! Hilarious!! [stfl]
Wish I could say it's my own creation, but I got it from Avatarist (http://www.avatarist.com/).
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Me bad: To clarify, I have seen reviews elsewhere (such as Amazon, etc) comparing "The Salem Branch" to be in the style of Bad Fanfiction. To me, "The Salem Branch" is considerably higher than Bad Fanfiction. So if TSB is in the style of "bad" fanfiction, then so is "The Mayfair Witches" or "The Vampire Chronicles", which have one or more Mary Sues in each book, described things "such as leaves" to the point of overkill, and disgusting bodily functions and/or sex. (The biggest offender being "The Mummy, or Ramses the Damned", which I still have a copy of and will never throw away, for sexy mummies are higher on a sensual level, for me, than vampires are. Don't know why.) All things that I obviously enjoy, as I read the Anne Rice books feverishly in the 1990's.
I guess I am a sucker for Mary Sues, for I am really enjoying the Miranda du Val parts of the story. I love the way she has with animals. Believe it or not, the 1600's feel very familiar to me, like a distant memory, and this part of American history has always made me feel a sort a kinship. I honestly believe that I lived through this time period in New England.
I still cannot stomach the relationship between Barnabas and Julia. Julia is being written so unappetizing, and the relationship seems so strained to the point I am starting to believe that Barnabas is only with her out of obligation, that I literally almost gagged when Barnabas kissed her. A Willie/Barnabas coupling would have been more feasible than this (at least for me), or at the very least have Barnabas with the Angelique look-alike, Antoinette.
I am still trying to realize Barnabas's need for medical treatment, in my mind, and the only conclusion that I can come up with is that somehow his 1840 self and 1970 self melded together when he returned to 1971. So that the uncursed meshed with the cursed, forming a creature with vampire dna that still needed a cure. Sounds corny, I know, but it is the only way I can reconcile this discrepancy.
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I am still trying to realize Barnabas's need for medical treatment, in my mind, and the only conclusion that I can come up with is that somehow his 1840 self and 1970 self melded together when he returned to 1971. So that the uncursed meshed with the cursed, forming a creature with vampire dna that still needed a cure. Sounds corny, I know, but it is the only way I can reconcile this discrepancy.
There has always been some debate in fandom over whether or not Barnabas was still a vampire after he returned to 1971. Some fans feel that because Angelique removed his curse in 1840/41, he was no longer a vampire in 1971. However, because Barn's curse in 1971 was caused by Jeb and not Ang, other fans argue that he IS still a vampire. And adding credence to the latter belief, Sam Hall also considered Barn to still be a vampire when he wrote his TV Guide article. ;)
Truthfully, having had Angelique remove the curse in 1840/41 causes huge problems, the least of which is whether or not Barn is still a vampire in the present. The biggest problem is if Barn was cured back then and never rechained in his coffin, how the hell do the people in the present even know who he is because Willie would have never been able to unchain him in 1967! :o But as we know only too well, the DS writers never considered that sort of stuff and often left it to the audience to figure it out for themselves, which is no doubt why we're still debating it. :D And basically the only way to fathom it all is to theorize that somehow the I Ching or the stairway through time or some combination of both took care of getting Barn's 1840/41 self recursed and rechained in his coffin as Barn travelled to 1971. But how that actually took place is anyone's guess because, well, the writers weren't about to tell us - even if the show had continued past April 1971. [wink2]
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But how that actually took place is anyone's guess because, well, the writers weren't about to tell us - even if the show had continued past April 1971. [wink2]
No, if the show had've continued, the writers would have sent Barnabas and Julia back in time, had them switch bodies Quentin and Petofi style, then sent them back to the present and had them act like their old sleves again, only to realize that once they hit 1980 that they are only masquerading because Barnabas wanted to see what it was like to be a woman and Julia wanted to see what it was like to suffer from Angelique's curse, at which point Angelique would have returned and done some kinda hocus pocus to switch them back, but only would've trapped Julia in Barnabas' body forever, getting herself (Angelique) stuck in the same body with Julia, forcing Julia to beat her (Barnabas') body to death, leaving her and Angelique BOTH dead, and Barnabas stuck in Julia's body only to realize too late that Adam REALLY had the hots for Julia, and they are destined to be together so Barnabas MUST hook up with Adam, which is really like hooking up with himself because Adam is made from his life-force.
WHEW! *wipes brow* Try THAT on for size!
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I'm suspecting that Brandon got into whatever some of the people posting back on September 22nd in the "Review of Grayson Hall bio in today's Bay Area Reporter" topic on the CE/A '06 board were into:
Beat you to it, MB. Look for my dealer's table at the next fest. ^-^
Nancy
I don't know what some of you posting in this topic are on tonight. But I have a feeling if I could bottle and sell it, I'd make a fortune! ;D
Have you been handing out free samples, Nancy? :D If so, how can I get some? ;D
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No, if the show had've continued, the writers would have sent Barnabas and Julia back in time, had them switch bodies Quentin and Petofi style, then sent them back to the present and had them act like their old sleves again, only to realize that once they hit 1980 that they are only masquerading because Barnabas wanted to see what it was like to be a woman and Julia wanted to see what it was like to suffer from Angelique's curse, at which point Angelique would have returned and done some kinda hocus pocus to switch them back, but only would've trapped Julia in Barnabas' body forever, getting herself (Angelique) stuck in the same body with Julia, forcing Julia to beat her (Barnabas') body to death, leaving her and Angelique BOTH dead, and Barnabas stuck in Julia's body only to realize too late that Adam REALLY had the hots for Julia, and they are destined to be together so Barnabas MUST hook up with Adam, which is really like hooking up with himself because Adam is made from his life-force. WHEW! *wipes brow* Try THAT on for size!
Paging Dr. Freud! ;D
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And now for another edition of:
Soap Writers Do the Stupidest Things!
And today's contestant:
Brandon Collins!
Announcer: Welcome, Mr. Collins! I hear your family hasn't been seen in over 40 years, yet people still love and adore them.
ME: Yes, it seems we have paid off quite a few people, haven't we? lol
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i believe i'm one of the posters who refered to this book as "bad fanfiction" and for me that is how it read.
i didn't really have a problem with the part of the story set in the 1600's because i could have been reading anything.it was a totally different time and place and set of characters from what i knew of d.s..
but the part set in 1971 really annoyed me because the characters i knew(as well as anyone can "know" fictitous television characters)bore little resemblance(except for the names)to what lara parker put on the page.
again i don't think she understands the material as well as one would think.
what is most disturbing about this book(as opposed to fanfiction)is that because it was written by someone so intimately involved with the show and it had the approval of 'dan curtis productions' is that it has the air of "canon" about it.meaning it could be interpreted as being the "real" story of what happened to these people(again,of course,these being fictitious characters)when everything about it seems wrong to me(ms.parker didn't even bother to get the backstories of most of the characters correct...julia "family doctor" exchanging her services for room and board???collinwood open for tourists???where did she get that stuff?).
so again i found this book to be the absolute lamest.
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I still cannot stomach the relationship between Barnabas and Julia. Julia is being written so unappetizing, and the relationship seems so strained to the point I am starting to believe that Barnabas is only with her out of obligation, that I literally almost gagged when Barnabas kissed her.
I do agree with you on this. Julia is written in a very unappealing, off putting way through out the book. The relationship between Julia and Barnabas, as it's written in the book, is nausea inducing. Out of all the characters - none of which I think Parker writes all that well - perhaps Julia comes off the worst. I can't explain my feelings on it in a way that makes sense, but I found myself cringing a lot when Julia was on the page.
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The only canon characters that I think were spot on were Roger, Carolyn, and David. I can accept David going through his teenage years and wanting to explore the hippie camp, as well as Carolyn wanting to go there after being forced to (mostly) lead a prudish life. Roger's remarks about how they were desecrating the land etc etc were so hilarious to me because I could picture Louis in the drawing room, brandy in hand, spouting those very things out.
BUT...
As far as Barnabas, Julia, Quentin, etc, go, I think that they were COMPLETE misrepresentations. There is no way, IMO that [spoiler]Barnabas would've agreed willy nilly to just marry Julia, especially if he didn't have the true feelings for her. I mean, look at all those times that she was demonstrating that she loved him and he never reciprocated. There's no way he would just do it to make her happy.[/spoiler]
And I also think that Julia was written wrongly, because he outlook on what is going on and particular "revenge" feel that I got from her wasn't right.
And Quentin, for the little he was included, was described totally wrong, as has been mentioned before.
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I still cannot stomach the relationship between Barnabas and Julia. Julia is being written so unappetizing, and the relationship seems so strained to the point I am starting to believe that Barnabas is only with her out of obligation, that I literally almost gagged when Barnabas kissed her.
I do agree with you on this. Julia is written in a very unappealing, off putting way through out the book. The relationship between Julia and Barnabas, as it's written in the book, is nausea inducing. Out of all the characters - none of which I think Parker writes all that well - perhaps Julia comes off the worst. I can't explain my feelings on it in a way that makes sense, but I found myself cringing a lot when Julia was on the page.
well put barnabas' bride.
indeed i found many of the exchanges between barnabas and julia in this book to be just that..."nausea inducing".
in general julia is written as a rather pathetic,and at times almost revolting,character here.
the final scene with julia,after a certain "transformation" takes place,is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things i have read in a long time.
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This is moving off topic a little bit, but I'm interested in how Lara Parker's novels compare to some of the other instances of actors writing fiction based on their characters. I'm not a big Star Trek fan, but I know that Shatner has had a hand in co-writing some novels based on the series. Are there other instances of this happening? Has there been a case of another actor writing solo about his/her character? How were these efforts received in their respective fandoms? Have Mary Sue comparisons been drawn in those instances?
Coming in a bit late on this, but I see that no one else has addressed this. Trek was my first fandom, and I've tried to keep at least a finger in the water there. Maybe I'm just fuzzy brained right now, but I can't place any Trek novels that he was involved with. Maybe I never got or read them, or maybe I've just forgotten. The only ones I remember are his nonfiction bios about the show, and his Tekwar series (which were actually ghost written by an SF author named Ron Goulart, from Shatner's plot outlines).
However, an instance which DOES apply to your question involves an actor named Paul Darrow, who starred in a British Science Fiction Series called Blake's 7. He wrote a novel (Avon: A Terrible Aspect), based on his character, Kerr Avon. The novel was a prequel, set just prior to the opening events of the tv series. As with LP's book, opinion varied widely, but the majority of fans were not happy with the book. Dredging up my memories from close to 15 years ago, I remember the major exception being the character being "off" from the series, and the style being more hard boiled detective novel invulnerable protagonist cliche than the 1984 type atmosphere of the original series. I DO have strong memories of a friend in the publishing industry being so annoyed with the writing style that she took a blue pencil to it, for sheer theraputic purposes. [santa_wink]
Then again, referencing the above about Shatner and his ghost writer: at least Darrow and (to bring this back to topic) Parker did their own writing.
One other example that just popped into my mind as I was about to post this is a Forever Knight novel co written by Geraint Wynn Davis. I remember that one being true to the series and the character and well received by the fandom.
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I think MsCriseyde is correct, that Shatner had his hand in a couple of Trek novels. I've seen a couple of them in a used bookstore near where I live. Maybe I'll drop by there and get the names of them next time I go out. I've also heard of his Tekwar series that Pansity spoke of. IIRC there's a number of books in that series.
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I finally broke down and got the thing. I'll probably get to it over the Christmas holidays. I look forward to it with excitement and...trepidation. [santa_cheesy]
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I've finally started reading TSB; I'm about halfway through it and have found it generally enjoyable, though Lara's mannerisms constantly threaten to derail me. The most egregious example is on p. 114:
"'I would have expected more genteel behavior from an...English gentleman.' She placed the epithet in verbal italics, her tone sardonic."
That one damn near sent me closing up shop and moving on to Jonathan Maberry's Ghost Road Blues. But I have persevered.
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I've finally started reading TSB;
Yes!
But I have persevered.
I feel your pain.
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The main branch of our library has a big main room with a lot of small shelving displays around with current best sellers, etc. As I was leaving today I caught a glimpse of the Dark Shadows name in the familiar lettering. I looked to see what it was and it was The Salem Branch. I was quite amazed. Normally the library doesn't have books like that (they don't have the previous two), and that they not only had it, but on prominent display like that really amazed me!
I've only read a few pages so far, but I like the way it starts.
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That's neat that it showed up in the library. Wonder if it was donated by a reader?
I thought I'd put up a link to my review of it on my Web site last month, but evidently I didn't.
http://www.stephenmarkrainey.com/logFM07.htm
Scroll down to the entry for March 3, 2007 for the full review.
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I'll bet someone donated that copy to your library, Josette, or maybe not, I actually saw KLS' 30th anniversary book at one of my local public libraries, though that was the only DS book they had, maybe the staff member who ordered it liked the show....
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A blog review: Dark Shadows – The Salem Branch by Lara Parker (http://reneepreston.evonybuddy.com/2010/10/13/dark-shadows-the-salem-branch-by-lara-parker/)
A plotl that's sometimes weak and implausible, and writing that's a bit off character. Yup - sounds like what I've come to expect...