DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '06 I => Topic started by: Professor1985 on February 06, 2006, 08:19:38 AM
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My least favorite writer of Dark Shadows is Violet Welles because she ruined DS, she was responsible for making Mineva Trask (Clarice Blackburn) accusing Rachel Drummond (KLS) the 1897 governess for being the excesory of the murder of Mineva's brother Simon Bryer, and she and trask accused her of stealing money, but the character of Rachel clams it's her own salary, I hated it. She's responsible for killing of the character of Rachel Drummond, I know that KLS went on a summer vacation to Africa before she returned playing the character of Kitty Soames. That's a lot for killing off Rachel Drummond Ms. Wells.
If I was Dan Curtis, or a castmember of DS, I would write a memo to fire Violet Welles from the DS Writing staff or come to her office and tear her script into pieces in front of her. I don't want to hurt people's feelings and I don't want to be a sexist, but everybody has different opinions, I hated her writing on DS. She reminds me of Arnie Fetterman (Milt Oberman) in the 1991 movie Delirious staring the late John Candy, where Candy's character Gable hated Arnie Fetterman and his storylines. I liked the late Gordon Russell and Sam Hall's writing on DS better. That's why Ms. Welles is/was my least favorite DS writer.
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Oh dear.....
if I'm not mistaken it was Violet Welles who wrote some of those magnificent 1897 episodes around the time Petofi wreaks havoc with the household and Quentin is one of the few retaining his sanity. Perhaps it would have been easier to fire KLS and the dippy Rachel Drummond.
[roll3]
-Still in foul mood :P
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Er. I disagree. I liked Violet Welles' writing.
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I disagree as well. Believe me, it wasn't Violet Welles' decison to make the Trask's asses, that was just part of the package. Play a Trask, play an ass! ;D We had to have villen's to show off how righteous the the good guys/hero's were didn't we? ;)
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I disagree as well. Believe me, it wasn't Violet Welles' decison to make the Trask's asses, that was just part of the package. Play a Trask, play an ass! ;D We had to have villen's to show off how righteous the the good guys/hero's were didn't we? ;)
I concur. JL did an awesome job in that role too. ;)
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Um, most of the plot points on DS (especially the really extreme, crazy ones) were dictated by Dan Curtis or, later in the series (1970-71), by Lela Swift who became the Producer during the final phase. The writers just had to choose HOW to write the story handed to them by DC. In some cases there was more give and take with the writers and Curtis spending hours arguing over how to plot a given storyline. In some cases they appear to have switched gears abruptly in mid stream (compare the respective runups to both 1795 and 1840 and how the stories actually played out).
So, it's really not fair to blame Welles for "killing off" Rachel. Welles wrote some of the best scripts in DS history. I'd say that she and Francis Swann were probably the best of all the writers. My personal least favorite writer was Ron Sproat. His scripts on DS were so paint by numbers. I've seen his work for Strange Paradise as well, and it was equally lacklustre.
G.
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She's responsible for killing of the character of Rachel Drummond, I know that KLS went on a summer vacation to Africa before she returned playing the character of Kitty Soames. That's a lot for killing off Rachel Drummond Ms. Wells.
If that's true, then I do thank her for that. Rachel was a boring character. I am glad she didn't last long. Kitty was much more interesting and KLS portrayal as Kitty was marvelous.
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I'd tip my hat to anyone who ever managed to write an entire teleplay of any length, just once.
People who do it day after day, deserve applause.
Being creative is a gift. Doing it over and over, on demand, on a schedule, is work.
Doing it very, very well.....that's genius.
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Oh dear.....
if I'm not mistaken it was Violet Welles who wrote some of those magnificent 1897 episodes around the time Petofi wreaks havoc with the household and Quentin is one of the few retaining his sanity. Perhaps it would have been easier to fire KLS and the dippy Rachel Drummond.
[roll3]
-Still in foul mood :P
I disagree in the last paragraph.
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When I started doing my own radio soap opera, I thought it would be pretty easy, but it really isn't. Writing the script is so much harder than actually performing it. It's difficult to juggle plot development with character development, and it's so easy to get mired in all those characters and their dialogue with each other. I'm sure you guys who have done any creative writing would agree. Kudos to those DS writers, especially Violet Welles. I loved 1897, and her scripts were particularly "magical."
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When I started doing my own radio soap opera, I thought it would be pretty easy, but it really isn't. Writing the script is so much harder than actually performing it. It's difficult to juggle plot development with character development, and it's so easy to get mired in all those characters and their dialogue with each other. I'm sure you guys who have done any creative writing would agree. Kudos to those DS writers, especially Violet Welles. I loved 1897, and her scripts were particularly "magical."
I just wanted to ask a question. Why Violet Welles wanted to write for Dark Shadows? Not Days of Our Lives, As The World Turns, or General Hospital?
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I believe Ms Welles was writing ad and promo copy etc. for ABC and/or the theatre(?). I know she was a Press Agent. Someone else here may have better details than I. I seem to recall that she was approached by another DS writer whom she had been helping with preliminary script treatments and this writer felt that she would make a great DS writer herself. I personally liked her work (partially because she has been generally credited for being the one to come up with the name "Count Petofi" as a reference, then running with it),I thought she had a real sense of the era and atmosphere of 1897 Collinwood. But, then again, I am partial to 1897 DS, and I especially liked the writing overall. I think it has a unique wit, particularly the early episodes and "Granny's Will" part of the story. Quentin was a sarcastic wit right out of the box; almost elevating certain scenes to comedy of manners (or, in Quentin's case, lack of manners). The repartee was faster and more interesting than typical soap dialogue, and it still is. I tend to agree, Gothick, that no one writer had the responsibility of offing any character, since it was an employment issue, as well as a story issue. Believe me, Professor, I understand being PO'd about a favorite character being mishandled or removed. Perhaps KLS wanted to play someone who she percieved as less of a victim? Early Lady Kitty certainly was more of a borderline villainess than victim! I understand she also went to Africa with Ben Martin around that time.
I just found the Association of Theatrical Press Agents and Managers(ATPAM), which lists a Violet Welles as having died October 18, 2003. According to the Internet Broadway Database, Ms Welles was a press representative for 22 Broadway shows, including the first run of Man of La Mancha, Royal Hunt of the Sun, and A Thousand Clowns. Her Broadway work took place in the 60s and early 70s. I think this publicity/promotions work is the kind that made up much of her career.
Petofi
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I have an interview with Violet Welles somewhere or other--I believe it was published in TWODS, but it may have been in "Inside the Old House." It's true that she was a publicist, and she even worked on one of Grayson's plays (might have been "The Love Nest"?). She was also a ghost-writer, and would handle some of Gordon Russell's workload when he got too frazzled to deal with it. I believe he suggested that she talk to Dan Curtis about becoming a staff writer for DS, but I'm not sure when that happened. Gordon Russell began writing for the show in, I think, the Summer of 1967, so it may be that she already wrote some scripts back then--they would have had his byline, however. (On the topic of ghost writers, there's a fascinating article about playwright Robert Patrick's work out in LA in this capacity; it's a lucrative line for writers who want the freedom to pursue their own work.)
Welles officially stopped writing for DS in, I think, some point of the Parallel Time 1970 storyline, but she came back to do a lot of the scripts for the Parallel Time 1841 sequence. Again, I think most, if not all, of these scripts had Gordon Russell's name on them.
G.
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Perhaps KLS wanted to play someone who she percieved as less of a victim? Early Lady Kitty certainly was more of a borderline villainess than victim! I understand she also went to Africa with Ben Martin around that time.
Lady Kitty more borderline villaness than victim! I disagree!
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I was thinking more along the lines of her early episodes, when she was a golddigger, her sights set ::) on marrying Edward and her murky past relationship to Count Petofi. Her later episodes, and her switching back and forth between being Kitty and Josette, are a somewhat different story. ::)
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I am going to have to disagree with the Professor and concur with amny other here that Violet Wells was a favorite writer. When you review her episodes, the notable part is not how she moves the plot forward, from what I can tell that was usually the Sam Hall episodes, but her actual dialogue. This is especially true in 1987 when she wrote some especially good scripts for the ladies, such as that late 1897 episode where Julia and Angelique have rather a truce and talk about how they feel. Its a great scene where they realize they have more in common that in conflict on how they relate to Barnabas.
I can't remember who wrote it, it may have been from a suggestion from Dan Curtis himself, but the worst plot point was
[spoiler]the whole business about Peter Bradford's ghost seeking revenge for Jeb KILLING VICKIE somewhere in the past. Terrible "deus ex Machina".That is not a Violet Wells contribution, I'd bet![/spoiler]
Michael [ghost] [/b]
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I can't remember who wrote it, it may have been from a suggestion from Dan Curtis himself, but the worst plot point was
[spoiler]the whole business about Peter Bradford's ghost seeking revenge for Jeb KILLING VICKIE somewhere in the past. Terrible "deus ex Machina".That is not a Violet Wells contribution, I'd bet![/spoiler]
I realize the expression is not taken literally, but I'm still trying to get past the use of the Latin word for god in reference to a Roger Davis character. ;D
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Hey Criseyde, you know it was literal in the old Greek plays. Perhaps in this instance, we can use the more common current expression, "He pulled that one right outta his butt."
[91a2]
Michael
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I am going to have to disagree with the Professor and concur with amny other here that Violet Wells was a favorite writer. When you review her episodes, the notable part is not how she moves the plot forward, from what I can tell that was usually the Sam Hall episodes, but her actual dialogue. This is especially true in 1987 when she wrote some especially good scripts for the ladies, such as that late 1897 episode where Julia and Angelique have rather a truce and talk about how they feel. Its a great scene where they realize they have more in common that in conflict on how they relate to Barnabas.
I can't remember who wrote it, it may have been from a suggestion from Dan Curtis himself, but the worst plot point was
[spoiler]the whole business about Peter Bradford's ghost seeking revenge for Jeb KILLING VICKIE somewhere in the past. Terrible "deus ex Machina".That is not a Violet Wells contribution, I'd bet![/spoiler]
Man, I'm glad she wrote that episode! One of my favourites! I really like the character-driven episodes more than the plot episodes most of the time, and Violet Welles wrote a lot of them. Unfortunately, the plotting overtook character development most of the time during the last year of DS. I hate how fast the plotting gets, especially by 1840. By the way, who wrote the plot for 1840? I love all (well, most...excluding Joanna...) the characters, but, God, the latter half is a complete mess!
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I have to respectfully disagree with this, as Violet Wells was one of, if not, my favorite writers on the show. She wrote some amazing character driven episodes, including what was, in my honest opnion, one of the spookiest scenes on the show
[spoiler]...Jamison's dream in 1897 of David's "last" birthday party[/spoiler]
I wish she had stayed on longer as a writer, does anyone know why she left?
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She's responsible for killing of the character of Rachel Drummond
Just recently watched the episode in question here and even **IF** the writer's made decisions like who gets killed etc...(and of course they didn't, it all came from Dan Curtis), accusing Violet Welles is erroneous. It was Gordon Russell who wrote the episode where [spoiler]Judith shows up at Dirks crypt and actually shoots Rachel.[/spoiler]Violet wrote the episode for the next day which was just a replay of what Russel wrote the day before.
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I liked Violet Welles' stuff too.
I'm a big fan of Francis Swann and I'm really coming to appreciate Malcolm Marmorstein's material.
When I watch DS now, I play a little game where I try to guess the writer (and lately the director). I've never been able to get a handle on either Ron Sproat or Gordon Russell's style. They're both very generic for some reason. I have come to dislike Sam Hall's scripts (please don't stone me). I used to be a big Art Wallace fan, but his work got tired and his pace was slow--and that's considering that I'm a fan of strong character-based approach!
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Too bad Francis Swann was gone before Barnabas arrived. Malcolm Marmorstein wrote a lot of good episodes in the early Barnabas period.
Dan Curtis should have just let his writers do the writer and himself doing the producing part. The earlier episodes appear to have more writer input whil later ones obvioulsy have DC's imprint on them regarding pacing.
PT 1841 had a good structure, almost like regular soap style as the first year was. Probably because DC was not as involevd as he used to be.
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I liked Violet Welles' stuff too.
I'm a big fan of Francis Swann and I'm really coming to appreciate Malcolm Marmorstein's material.
When I watch DS now, I play a little game where I try to guess the writer (and lately the director). I've never been able to get a handle on either Ron Sproat or Gordon Russell's style. They're both very generic for some reason. I have come to dislike Sam Hall's scripts (please don't stone me). I used to be a big Art Wallace fan, but his work got tired and his pace was slow--and that's considering that I'm a fan of strong character-based approach!
I tried to play that "game" and had to give up. I had decided Violette Welles was by far my favorite; then when I paid close attention to credits, when I had noticed this or that line or conversation or historical reference I liked, or bit of atmosphere, someone else's name would often be on it, so I had to give up.
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I liked Violet Welles' stuff too.
I'm a big fan of Francis Swann and I'm really coming to appreciate Malcolm Marmorstein's material.
When I watch DS now, I play a little game where I try to guess the writer (and lately the director). I've never been able to get a handle on either Ron Sproat or Gordon Russell's style. They're both very generic for some reason. I have come to dislike Sam Hall's scripts (please don't stone me).
I've played that game too. I think sometimes you can tell when Violet ghost wrote [ghosty] for Gordon Russell. My way of telling Gordon/Violet/Sam is that Sam Hall's scripts focus on moving the plots forward, Violet's scripts are very character focused and they have character's talk about how they feel and Gordon's scripts have elements of both, ie plot but with some character exploration. I couldn't put a style to Ron Sproat off the top of my head. [idontknow]
One thing Lela Swift likes to do is set character's around mirrors. She does this more than anyone. She's often less frenetic than Henry Kaplan. [kaiokn] (I enjoy reading Chris Pennock's hilarious comics for insights on their styles on directing actors.)
Now, if we can just figure out why there's so many times we go to "bongo man" instead of full Cobert music. [gramophone]
Michael
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I understand from some of the cast members they preferred a "Sam Hall" script because they felt (and it's there feeling not mine) that his scripts were overall consistent in the approach to the character and also had some wry, funny lines.
As to Welles..She probably was glad to get a writing job in a male-dominated industry, so she took the one offered rather than waiting around for Days to call. . .i don't know but she's gone so lets drop the vitrol shall we?