DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '06 I => Topic started by: AndreDuPres on January 18, 2006, 01:53:42 PM
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1970 PT has become one of my favourite storylines of the show. The variety of characters, the luxurious setting, the omnipresence of Lara Parker, the garish costumes, & etc. are all so wonderful and fascinating as is the very concept of PT! A lot of people seem to dislike this time in DS, but whenever I want to watch an episode or two (or three or four), I usually reach for 1897 or PT. Sure, Maggie and Quentin can be quite annoying at times, and the Roxanne stuff is kind of tacked on badly, but the rest is brilliant. Angelique PT is a great villain, even more evil than her regular time counterpart, IMO, and Grayson Hall as "Hoffman" is fantastic.
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You're not alone, Andre! I've posted several times over the years how much I love this time period. How ironic that one of DS' best eras followed the disaster known as Leviathan. This is truly the last time we see so many of the DS regulars in contemporary clothing- in the Summer '70 story, there weren't many actors used. 1970 PT marks the end of the road for Don Briscoe, Lisa Richards, and Denise Nickerson, while Marie Wallace left just before the story began. You hardly see Thayer David or John Karlen in Summer 1970, and I believe Louis Edmonds wasn't even available! Let's not forget that we don't have Jerry Lacy, Lara Parker or Michael Stroka in the Summer '70 story. Plus the Summer 1970 story focused on a whole bunch of newcomers: James Storm, Kate Jackson, Kathy Cody and Donna Wandrey. With the subsequent cast changes (especially the departure of Kathryn Leigh Scott in September '70), 1970 PT is truly a last hurrah for the extended DS family.
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I adore 1970PT! It's a fun & clever segment of the show. One thing that's kind of cool about it is the fact that many
things in 1970PT are weirdly opposite of RT. For example:
[spoiler]Willie chains Barnabas in the coffin as opposed to letting him out like in RT. Hoffman tries to destroy Barnabas in PT as opposed to trying to save him. The significant portrait in PT is of Angelique as opposed to Josette's portrait in RT. Chris Pennock's character in PT is a man who turns into a monster as opposed to a monster who turns into a man in RT.[/spoiler]
PT has lots of neat stuff like that. :)
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I guess I'll be the first to say that I didn't like the PT segment of the show. I can't see myself watching it again. Maybe once. I couldn't tolerate Quentin, Maggie or Angelique whatsoever, and the only interesting characters to me were Carolyn & Willie and they got very little screen time overall. I wasn't into the Cyrus Longworth storyline (though I liked Buffy) and Roxanne I can definitely leave. Barnabas's absence from the early PT episodes made it worse because there was no one on screen I cared to watch. And any storyline that makes me despise Quentin isn't one that I'm probably going to like much. :-
I suppose though what it comes down to for me is that I just didn't care enough about the parallel time characters, and when PT rolled around, I was pretty much sick of the time jumping.
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I've also posted several times over the years about how fond I am of PT 1970. I thought this story worked much better than the attempt to do a PT 1841 story, presumably because the writers had a bit more time to set things up (despite how frantic things were preparing for the filmshoot).
I love so many things about PT 1970: what Sy did with the sets; a few new music cues to suggest a different universe; Hoffman, Hoffman, Hoffman!; Louis' superbly arch and bitchy twist to the new Roger (obviously meant to suggest Clifton Webb in Rebecca, but I really do think Edmonds made this character fully his own); the fabulous Angelique/Alexis dual role for Parker; Thayer's wonderful work late in the game as alcoholic, delightfully seedy mad scientist Tim Stokes; the fabulous (and much mourned) Paula Laurence as Aunt Hannah; Lacy's gig as a butler; great roles for Elizabeth Eis and John Harker; Bennett's initial characterization of PT Liz as a dowdy mouse; and who can forget Claude North, Chris Collins' secret gay lover? (OK, so I made that last bit up, but I can't think of anyone more deserving of Chris than our own Claude!--OK, Sandor, so you guys can work out a time share!!).
Deserving of her own paragraph is Barrett's work as Carolyn Stoddard Loomis. I happen to think that Barrett did some of her very finest, most nuanced work onscreen in this part. If daytime Emmies meant anything, she should have been nominated for this. Equally fine, of course, is Karlen as alcoholic, washed up hasbeen writer Will Loomis.
I could still mention things I love about the storyline, such as the seance sequence and the haunting of Damion Edwards story, and the fact that Collinsport finally gets an English Inspector (just off the boat from Scotland Yard??) to investigate the murder mystery. Just great stuff.
G.
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I don't remember much about the 1970PT storyline, just bits and pieces. I look forward to reviewing it again when I get the DVDs. I must say though that I love the idea of parallel time and have written it into some of my DS fanfic. I am just sorry that they didn't allow AM to play Vicki in PT as the opposite of what she was like in RT. I think that would have stretched the imagination for the actor and viewers and would have been a hit. I like the idea that because of some decision made differently, the world their lives changed. I liked the TV series Sliders for that reason until they changed it several years into the series.
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I've always loved 1970 PT. I wouldn't rank it at the top for storylines, but I still consider it a favorite. Part of the "magic" of it though, was the mystery when it first appeared, before we learned that it was parallel time and what that meant. That's lost for most people now, because from sites like this, newcomers are aware of a storyline called "parallel time."
[spoiler]The "beauty" and brightness of the sets adds to it; the Angelique - Alexis part was great. It was so nice being able to see a "good" Angelique (Alexis) - yet there was the underlying mystery as to which she really was.
I wasn't too thrilled with the Jekyll-Hyde part of the story, but it had it's moments and combined pretty well with the other story.[/spoiler]
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I love so many things about PT 1970: what Sy did with the sets; a few new music cues to suggest a different universe; Hoffman, Hoffman, Hoffman!; Louis' superbly arch and bitchy twist to the new Roger (obviously meant to suggest Clifton Webb in Rebecca, but I really do think Edmonds made this character fully his own)
I think you're thinking of Laura (http://www.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=A28479). Hoffman, Quentin, Maggie, and Angelique were doing their low-rent version of Rebecca ;)
I like parts of PT. Chris Pennock is loads of campy fun and some of the tertiary characters are a hoot. However, the Angeliquecentric story bores me to absolute tears.
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I haven't yet seen 1970 PT, but LOVE 1841 PT! That is my second favorite plotline behind 1795. So, as much as I love 1841 PT, I'm sure I'll love 1970 PT too. ;)
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Luciaphil darlin', thanks for that correction! I got fuddled but I guess the show was adding in an element of Laura there in the midst of the Rebecca redaction.
It's been such a treat to see your revival of your notes on Dark Shadows! Keep up the fabulous work!
Best,
Steve
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Okay, all the above has made me come to the conclusion that your impression of PT comes from how familiar or unfamiliar you are with the elements of it. The concept of another dimension existing in the same physical space and in the same time as our reality had become something of an old chestnut even by 1970. TV shows constantly reused ideas from other series then. Whenever any show came up with a basic premise, it would pop up on seven other shows. The first appearance of the parallel universe idea that I know of was in Star Trek, one of the great first season ones, unless Outer Limits did it first, I haven't seen that many of those.
PT begins with a too-faithful remake of Rebecca and Jeckyl and Hyde. Once all that finally runs its course, I can begin to take an interest. Events start taking off in a more original direction, though these events may be liftedtoo, from classics that I don't know.
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PT begins with a too-faithful remake of Rebecca and Jeckyl and Hyde. Once all that finally runs its course, I can begin to take an interest. Events start taking off in a more original direction, though these events may be liftedtoo, from classics that I don't know.
There are threads here somewhere that can attribute a good number of the SLs (and for that matter plot points). to various sources from classics to trash. That stupid [spoiler]Judah Zachary head in a case[/spoiler] is from a B horror film.
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The first appearance of the parallel universe idea that I know of was in Star Trek, one of the great first season ones
I remember that episode! "Mirror, Mirror" and Spock had a beard! One of my all-time fave ST eps! ;) It was so interesting to see how different all the characters were in their parallel world. :D
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1970 PT had some great moments, and I concur with the posters who singled out the performances of Nancy Barrett, Grayson Hall, John Karlen, Lara Parker and Louis Edmonds. Interest waned when the main cast was off filming the Dark Shadows movie, but they all came back with a vengeance, and the payoff was sweet. Too bad that Clarice Blackburn was busy doing "The Secret Storm" during this storyline - would have loved to see a spicey/dicey Mrs. Johnson in the parallel world (as Angelique's sidekick perhaps, though Paula Laurence's Hannah Stokes was a hoot in her own right).
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The first appearance of the parallel universe idea that I know of was in Star Trek, one of the great first season ones
I remember that episode! "Mirror, Mirror" and Spock had a beard! One of my all-time fave ST eps! ;) It was so interesting to see how different all the characters were in their parallel world. :D
No, no, no! That was second season. First season, it was "The Alternative Factor", where the SF premise was really well explained and set up, and was actually horrifying. The other universe was anti-matter.
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There are threads here somewhere that can attribute a good number of the SLs (and for that matter plot points). to various sources from classics to trash. That stupid [spoiler]Judah Zachary head in a case[/spoiler] is from a B horror film.
Yes indeed! There is no question - "The Thing That Couldn't Die" has to be the inspiration for that storyline. I think it's amusing that this movie is inevitably left off the lists of stories that inspired DS storylines. You always read about how DS adapted these great literary classics, but the B-movie factor is always conspicuous by its absence. I watched "The Thing That Couldn't Die" recently - a fun-to-watch bad movie. The DS storyline it inspired was an improvement on the film IMO. [spoiler]I also think Judah was much creepier than the warlock head in TTTCD.[/spoiler]
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Although I found high points in 1970PT, overall it was my least favorite storyline. I especially disliked the Jekyll and Hyde part even though I am a fan of the Jekyll and Hyde story and some of the movie versions. Quentin was probably the other thing I disliked the most. Now, I don't think that every character or even a main character needs to be likable by any means, but I just found Selby increasingly grating to watch this time around. Ditto for the Bruno character.
I liked the concept of parallel time and the idea that the same characters had different lives because of choices they had made that changed them and changed history. Nancy Barrett and John Karlen showed their versatility as always. I thought Lara Parker differentiated the two roles very well, and the fate of one of them was creepy.
However, I liked the 1841 parallel time story much better.
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I think it's a more legitimate and creative act to take a promising premise from a bad movie, and rework it into something good, than to take the premise of a great novel or film and redo it.
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However, I liked the 1841 parallel time story much better.
Yeah Vlad! Another fan who also likes 1841 PT! We are a rare bunch. ;) I think most fans don't like this plotline because [spoiler]it didn't have any of our faves in it (Barnabas, Julia etc...). All other 'back in time' or 'parallel time' storylines had SOMEONE from our world present, this one didn't. Add to this the fact that the show ENDED here and you get more fan frustration. But as I've said in the past, I like that the show ended this way, it gave rise to TONS of fan fiction, which I love to read and write![/spoiler]
I'm currently working on a fan novel about this time period and beyond--basically a 'whatever happened to Bramwell and Catherine' type story. I hope to have it ready for sale at the Festival this August. ;)
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I'm a big fan of (what I saw of) 1841 PT, though I don't care for it as much as 1970 PT. Still, 1841 PT has Nancy Barrett at her best, IMO: Melanie is one awesome character!
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Parallel time is like a apricot brandy-soaked fruitcake (made with assorted dried fruit and pecans...not those red and green things. {Cough}) Its filled with potent nuggets of joy, surprises, and ultimately...intriguing to the last slice.
And in general, I agree...the concept of PT is fantastic fodder for fanfiction, indeed.
Popping in when I can,
Ms. studious [yes, I do indeed compare a lot of things to baking. ::) One of my many eccentricities... :D]
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I really enjoyed 1970PT it was one of the best periods of DS since the beginning of the werewolf/Quintin period.
I liked All the PT character, Quintin, Liz, Carolyn etc. I liked how they reverted Maggie back to the innocent girl from the early seasons. She was naive but interesting.
This period of Ds was excellent.
on the subject of 1841PT...i was somewhat intersted in it but it was confusing and disjointed. also since the show ended their with no real link to any previous portions of DS it kind of upset me.
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I'm currently working on a fan novel about this time period and beyond--basically a 'whatever happened to Bramwell and Catherine' type story. I hope to have it ready for sale at the Festival this August. ;)
Good luck with that, Buzz... I've wanted to take part in fanfic for something like 20 years, but various things (medical) stopped me. Got anything you're working on where a drawing as illustration could help? Given enormous warning time, I like to think I could come up with something. I don't stink, I swear. The problem is source material, plus the fact that any focusing squeezes my eyeballs like they're in vises. But that's my problem. Over a period of several months, one drawing might be possible. I don't know where to find interesting photos to use though.
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Got anything you're working on where a drawing as illustration could help? Given enormous warning time, I like to think I could come up with something
Hmmm, well, I already have a cover, but let me think on it and get back to you. If I end up breaking the novel down into chapters, I may want illustrations for each one at the beginning, ala Harry Potter fiction. Thanks for the offer! ;)
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http://visualdevice.blogspot.com/
This is for you to see if you want me involved or not. Source material is still a problem. As are the eyes.
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I haven't seen the parallel time episodes since they were on the Sci-Fi channel years ago. I remember really liking them. I found the lack of our usual characters to be quite refreshing and interesting. The usual plotlines, good as they are, get old after a while. The characters in parallel time were really fascinating to me. There were also (sorry if my memory is off on this) so many motives and counter motives, it was like everyone was plotting against everyone else, who was plotting against everyone else, etc. I love stuff like that.
I'm really looking forward to getting the DVD's eventually, but I'm just at the point where Quentin makes his first appearance, so I've got a long way to go. Maybe the Summer after this coming Summer. Or maybe I'll just skip about 7 DVD sets and get straight into it ;D Looking at some of the screencaps in "caption this" makes it very tempting!
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Well, from my nick I obviously enjoy PT, but with some qualifications as well. I do get tired of Quentin's painfully short temper and that he has such little trust in Maggie. I know they have to have conflict, but this is the least likable Quentin. I have to say as well Quentin doesn't have as much chemistry with Maggie as he did with say Beth or would with Daphne, IMO, or even Samantha, as Virginia was such a good actress, I can see at some time in their past, their was romance. On the other hand, I had trouble believing Quentin and Laura even more, so its kinda in the middle. I agree Bruno is all too often a one-note (all puns intended) character. [gramophone] Likewise, its awkward when Barnabas disappears for weeks at a time, and we get too little of Trask.
Now, on the positive, I do like Cyrus. One thing I think is overlooked is the genuine friendship between Cyrus and Quentin. My wife always says Cyrus reminds her a bit of the King Tut [egypt] character on "Batman" when he reverts back to his non-criminal state, "Oh dear, I've been bad again, haven't I?" But I like Cyrus with all his inhibitions although I find Yaeger a bit vulgar, and a hint of the more extreme characters DS may have developed in the '70s had it ran longer.
I love Louis' s character in PT. I love the moments when he talks to the portrait. Its some of the very best acting he did in the series, on par with Joshua's emotional cracks at the end of 1795. I like the rather wan and dissipated Carolyn with all her demons, bottled and otherwise. I bet Grayson had great time playing "evil" Hoffman. I also love the little ghost touches.
That said, the only other parts I don't like is that the "evil twin" story's a bit padded out in length, although I doubt any soap has ever passed on the lure of that story, and I bet again Laura enjoyed playing it. The whole "sleeping beauty" is a bit awkward, although I think Donna Wandry added some good, flesh blood to her era. [_Vampire_] Barnabas proved once again, how fickle his love longings were. I can see why Julia (and her legion) want to slap him into reality now and then.
Lastly, its a great concept, as where else in the series is anyone susceptible to being knocked off and really die. Overall, I rate it a fine middle of the pack story, better than the "Eve" half of the Adam story, but certainly no match for 1897 or 1975.
Michael
[a_monkey] Monkeys are still your best entertainment value