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The www.darkshadowsfestival.com has reported today that WB has finally ordered a new pilot to be filmed.
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I'd say that is promising news! Thanks for the report, Jimbo.
dom
PS - I wonder how long it'll be before we hear about cast members? How exciting!
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You are welcome. It is great news!
I just have this feeling that the producers, in anticipation of the pilot approval, have already selected the actors they want. I mean I am sure they were not just sitting around playing checkers waiting for the greenlight. But who knows. Pure speculation. In any event it is up to us to get the scoop. Let the game begin.
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You know, since we heard and started speculating about this possible new version of DS, I've been catching shows on the WB and other stations and "making believe" that I am watching the new DS just to see if I can shatter my own prejudices (sp?) about a new DS as compared to the original and being able (myself) to accept the new DS for what it is. Interestingly enough, I have seen some shows (minutes only, I admit) that actually could have been the new DS, meaning that they involved darkness, big houses, spooky scenarios, and Dark Shadowseque type characters. Most interestingly for me was trying to accept younger (teenage) actors in the imaginary roles. So far I've found that I can accept the premise of a new DS if the mood of the show is right. I am finding it a bit harder to accept teenagers in the roles, but mostly when they are taking the place of established characters (fantasy wise, in my own head). I find it much easier to accept teens if I make believe that they are totally new characters. I have decided that however (and if) it's presented, I am going to watch the new DS no matter what, but I do hope (now that I've tested myself) that somehow they will present the show with a new cast of characters, save Barnabas, perhaps with guest appearences by original cast members reprising their original roles. I doubt that will happen because, let's face it, they'll probably want to do the release of Barnabas as opposed to having Barn already there, picking it up in present day. It just wouldn't be interesting enough to pull in viewers without the intro of Barn as vamp attacking everyone in sight and us waiting to see how he gets himself out of seemingly impossible situations relating to his being caught. I'd love to see a new Barn with John Karlen as an older (if not, wiser) Willie Loomis. It would make sense that Barn wouldn't age while Willie has, along with Maggie, Carolyn, and other original cast members who's mortality would make them aged in 2004.
Anyway...here's to coming one step closer to a new DS, hooray!!
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I'm personally quite excited by the prospect. After all, John Wells has worked with blood before so it could make for an exciting show even with an majority younger cast.
Let's remember that many of our favorite actors were in their 20s (or younger) when the original DS was on. Alexandra Moltke, KLS, Joel Crothers, David Selby, Nancy Barrett was all of 18, and our favorite devil child, David Hensey. Surely, no one has forgotten his tour de force as the evil possessed Count Petofi in the 1897 storyline. He was one of the scariest!
Therefore, I'm having an open mind about the younger actors. Let's see what they do first.
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Sounds like good news to me. I'm anxious to see what they do with a new version of DS and to get a glimpse of the new blood they'll be bringing in to portray the characters. Though I don't care much for redoing the same storylines as they did before, I'm starved for something good to watch on tv.
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dom...I myself have been thinking of it too.
One thing, and this ties into 'cameo' appearances by orig. DS alumnus'...on One Life to Live, (and I don't watch other soaps, so I don't know if it happens), a few characters who have left the show will pop up.
For instance, Clint. He just pops up, and it's like seeing a good friend.
Today,......[size=10]CORD!!!! :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* [/size]
oooohhhh baby......Cord.... :-* :-* :-*
But, OLTL incorporates 'old alumnus' and it's great.
Also, there are times that we don't care for a certain story line (and this could happen with the hopefully future one). But, if we never knew if say TLATKLS would be popping in, wouldn't we allllwayyys watch, just in case (or Lara Parker, etc).
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Let the game begin.
This is wonderful news. Can't wait to see how things progress from here.
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Sounds like good news to me. I'm anxious to see what they do with a new version of DS and to get a glimpse of the new blood they'll be bringing in to portray the characters. Though I don't care much for redoing the same storylines as they did before, I'm starved for something good to watch on tv.
Yes you hit it right on the head. We are all starved to watch something good on TV. I just wonder what night of the week should Dark Shadows air?
p.s. No matter how fluential John wells is, the WB must have really liked the script to order what will probably be an expensive pilot filming. So cheers to the writer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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:D I'm sure you all know that you can keep up with all the news on the new, proposed DS at http://barnabasundead.com but just in case, I mention it here.
HOORAY!! I'm ecstatic that filming will begin. It should indeed be interesting to see who will be cast in the top roles. I just hope the show isn't saturated with the usual soap fare. So many of the original roles were mature adults. (Liz, Roger, Barnabas, Prof. Stokes, Mrs. Johnson, Julia, and even Angelique). I can't, in my wildest dreams, imagine a 20-year old Barnabas.
Misty
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Fantastic news, isn't it? I'm just looking forward to seeing something new - with good talent behind it and decent resources, the sky really is the limit :)
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Am I the only person here who would prefer not to hear another word about the production? :-X
For me, the show only has a chance if I come to it with absolutely no pre-conceived ideas, no preferences, no ideal cast, and no expectations.
"Perfect" would have been coming upon it by accident just as the pilot was about to begin. Otherwise, I can't imagine how ANY new attempt at this show is going to bear up under the staggering weight of all our expectations and hopes .
Methinks it's going to be a long summer. ::)
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:- I know where you're coming from, Rainypark. I've been preparing myself to be disappointed. But Misty, ever the optimist, will take anything dealing with DS into consideration at least once. I wasn't thrilled with the '91 series at all, so although I'm happy that there is interest, I'm wary all the same.
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I never saw any part of the 91 series at all.....so I have nothing to ignore regarding THAT attempt.
I would just prefer not to have to 'forget' 8 months of speculation, hypothosis, rumor and gossip when I sit down to watch the thing!!
On the other hand.....I have no intention of logging off this forum for the next 8 months either..... :D
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meh...for some reason I'm not even remotely interested in any new DS productions. I watched a little of the other DS with Goeing as Maggie and I forgot who was Barnabas and couldn't have cared less, turned TV off after 10 minutes.
I believe the DS I know and love was unique in that the time period, actors, writers and producers all helped to put together this very interesting gothic play-like TV show that will never be replicated. JF WAS Barnabas (but I could see a movie with Johnny Depp as Barnie also) Johnny Depp I'd allow...
I know this is a negative viewpoint but it is how I feel. Having made my statement though I'm sure the new production will bring some good entertaining for many people and will at least keep the "franchise" going.
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....... and will at least keep the "franchise" going.
And speaking of the "franchise".....the thing that concerns me most about the "New" DS is the possible impact it might have on the return of the "Old" DS to TV. I've got this awful scenario in mind of Dan Curtis and the WB deciding that the new one would fare better if the original was not available for comparison. :o
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I am not sure if everyone received Shadowgram's 1/28/2004 cyberspace update so I will post it.
"Dan Curtis Productions has informed SG that the WB has officially ordered the highly-anticipated one-hour pilot for a potential new primetime weekly Dark Shadows series. The show, in partnership with John Wells Productions, will film soon, in time for screening by network officials in May, at which a decision will be made whether or not the program will be picked up as a series for this fall. No other specifics, including cast, have yet to be determined. It can be announced, however, that the storyline has new characters and situations added to the DS framework while staying faithful to the spirit of the original."
new characters, new situations! sounds a bit radical to me????????
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I would expect new characters and situations to be inevitable.
Don't forget we're talking about a daytime soap opera format from 35 years ago. There's simply no way to recreate that faithfully.....and then expect it to be a successful prime time series in 2004.
Do we really expect it to look like it's been shot entirely in a television studio? It won't. It will be filmed on sets and locations.
Do we think each episode will be limited to a small number of actors because extras cost money? They won't because that's not the current fashion in production values.
Do we expect there to be single, focused, all-consuming storylines involving all the characters at the same time? There won't be, because multiple storylines are more compelling and intricate and viewers like stories to come together like puzzles.
I've no doubt that the people behind this new production would very much love to please the original fans. But we're not sufficient in numbers to make or break the show. And sad to say, but many, if not most of us, are not the correct demographic for their potential advertisers. They almost HAVE to be appealing to a younger, broader base......and it will have to be a VERY different Dark Shadows to do that.
Perhaps not better.....hopefully not worse.....but definitely different.
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I love the idea of new characters and new situations- while remaining faithful to the spirit of the original series. Nothing can change how I view or feel about the original series, the '91 version didn't. I liked that version, too, what I remember of it in it's short time on air.
I would watch if they remade the original version or made it more like the '91 model. But I'd prefer to not be able to reasonably know what's going to happen next in a certain storyline or compare any particular scene to how it was done back in '68 or whenever. However, I wouldn't mind thinking- "How would the original Barnabas deal with this new character of the '04 version?" or "How would this new '04 situation work if it occured before the original Quentin was introduced?" Who knows, maybe some of the original actors can portray some of the new characters? :)
I agree with Raineypark that "multiple storylines are more compelling and intricate and viewers like stories to come together like puzzles." I think there would have to be a certain number of self contained episodes as well. Or that's just my guess for an hour long show in prime time these days, though I may be wrong.
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I think the news of new characters is the most heartening development yet -- it's not just welcome, it's vital. The 1991 series' problem in a nutshell is that it added nothing of value to the DS mythos - it was parasitic, just rehashing old characters and situations from beginning to end. And, no matter how well produced or acted it was, a copy is a copy - the poor relation by default.
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Since the rumors will be flying, including casting, plot and other, in the next several months, I would appreciate that until the first episode is aired that we put any "spoilers" such as casting and/or plot into spoiler tags. Dream casting or wishful thinking (or criticism) is not spoiler. MB, Midnite, Dom do we still have those?
As God is my witness, I intend to remain unspoiled until it airs in the fall, if does indeed get picked up, including but not limited to and especially including casting spoilers. My Angel viewing has paid off for me since I'm totally spoiler free! Otherwise that [blank blank blank where did that spoiler tag go to] surprise would have been ruined if the actor [blank blank blank where did that spoiler tag go?] had been revealed before hand.
I want to turn on my telly and then find out. I love surprises!!!!!!!!!
Thank you to Stuart for his the spoiler tags on his site! It's great!
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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As I indicated in my own post, I also would love to come to the new show with no pre-conceptions and no information regarding plots or cast or anything.
But I don't think expecting the rest of the forum members to remember to "spoiler" every single reference to the new show for the next 8 months is reasonable. It would be lovely......but really.......it would be asking a bit much.
This subject has already proven itself of enormous interest on this forum. I don't think we can see it on the temp forum, but the thread with the most responses on the original forum was about THIS subject.
The number of posts that this will generate over the next 8 months will be huge, I have no doubt. And all it will take is one person to forget to "spoiler" somthing and all that effort will be wasted.
I'm sure the moderators would do their best to stay on top of them.....but even that's asking for a monumental effort on their part to "protect" what I suspect is a small minority of people like us who really would rather not know things ahead of time.
I figure our realistic choices come down to not reading the forum, or taking our chances on reading things we'd rather not have known.
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I agree with Raineypark that specific spoiler information should not be indicated here. I am just not sure what the extent of the censorship should be. I'd rather not hear specific storyline details about the pilot. However, I am interested in who is being casted in the pilot. I am also intrigued about the "new" characters and would like to know what their roles are. Actually, I am confused about everything regarding the pilot. At first glance I thought the addition of several characters was a radical concept. But now I do agree that the historic storyline needs a major boost. It is just an exciting time for all of us. I guess I am still in shock that the project is really happening.
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I'm a forever pessimist. To me, being a pessimist is far more practical: if you expect something to wrong, and it does, you're not disappointed. If it goes right, you're happy to beat the band. Being an optimist, if you expect something to go right and it does, big deal. If it flops, you're ready to call Kevorkian. So I'm remaining a pessimist with regards to the new WB version. I was no big fan of the '91 attempt, so when it failed, I just shrugged it off.
Gerard
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I'm a forever pessimist. To me, being a pessimist is far more practical: if you expect something to wrong, and it does, you're not disappointed. If it goes right, you're happy to beat the band. Being an optimist, if you expect something to go right and it does, big deal. If it flops, you're ready to call Kevorkian. So I'm remaining a pessimist with regards to the new WB version. I was no big fan of the '91 attempt, so when it failed, I just shrugged it off.
"I learned a long time ago never to expect anything. That way I'm never dissapointed"
I've always wondered if that quote (of Roger Collins in ep. 1 of the '91 series for those not familiar) was the writers referring to the incredible expectations fans of the original series had for the new DS. I mean, it always seemed kinda forced. One minute they're talking about David being a nutter and the next Roy Thinnes drops this bomb of a conversation stopper that leaves Joanna Going gawking.
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I don't see why casting would be considered a spoiler. If the show really does come about, presumably they would advertise it, and that would certainly include announcing and probably showing the main characters. I can see that one wouldn't want to know how the storyline will progress, but the cast is something that presumably would be well known before it actually airs.
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I think that the "new" DS is a nice change for all of us DSers (?). I'm very sure that with the writers, who's going to play who, stage carpenters and costumers it will be a great story......but....
I'm going to remain true to the original DS, and I think everybody will.
Anyway....Good Luck Dark Shadows. [blackbat]
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Raineypark wrote:
I've got this awful scenario in mind of Dan Curtis and the WB deciding that the new one would fare better if the original was not available for comparison.
I really hope not because that's how I got turned on to DS. But, I started to immediately buy MPI home video tapes because I couldn't stand the endless commercials on SciFi. Now I just buy 1 tape about every 4 months.
The original DS was simply unique. As for the new show I just hope it doesn't concentrate (like so many soaps these days) on teenagers only. One of the very interesting things about DS was that it was a happy and healthy mix of old, middle and young characters all mixing and interacting together as life usually is. To single out (unless it's a specific story) ANY age group is not really a good idea.
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This new DS will surely mean a new generation of fans being aware about DS (those who didn't watch the Sci Fi channel).
Last week I saw actor Tom Lenk playing Andrew on "Angel" for the first time. I think TL would be a perfect Willie Loomis. Angel is even on the WB network!
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I don't see why casting would be considered a spoiler. If the show really does come about, presumably they would advertise it, and that would certainly include announcing and probably showing the main characters. I can see that one wouldn't want to know how the storyline will progress, but the cast is something that presumably would be well known before it actually airs.
Could be the main character casting would not be too spoiler.... However, sometimes special roles get cast and it would spoil a plot ahead if you knew that person was going to be in the show. The example I have of this is a recent episode of Angel where an old character from earlier seasons shows up out of the blue. Had I know that particular actor was going to be on the show, the big surprise at the end a particular episode would have been spoiled. That's what I really meaning.
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vw, if you mean Christian Kane's return to Angel several weeks back, I agree that would've qualified as a spoiler and I enjoyed it all the more as a surprise. Regarding a new DS, if someone should get their hands on a script, or be present at filming, or have access to the network feed a few days before a broadcast, information shared as a result should absolutely be treated as a spoiler. For other situations, however, such as casting announcements and character outlines, the moderators aren't going to be adding spoiler warnings, so if you don't want to read about such things I can only recommend you avoid the topics about the new series, sorry.
And I apologize for not answering your question sooner about the spoiler code, but we had no way of knowing if MB was going to be able to get an SE forum working or if it would have to be converted to the SMF version, and so reinstalling the SE mods wasn't a big priority. But as you can see, MB has been a very busy bee overnite. [wink2]
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vw, if you mean Christian Kane's return to Angel several weeks back, I agree that would've qualified as a spoiler and I enjoyed it all the more as a surprise.
Yes, that is the surprise. Wanted to be sure you saw your episode.
Regarding a new DS, if someone should get their hands on a script, or be present at filming, or have access to the network feed a few days before a broadcast, information shared as a result should absolutely be treated as a spoiler. For other situations, however, such as casting announcements and character outlines, the moderators aren't going to be adding spoiler warnings, so if you don't want to read about such things I can only recommend you avoid the topics about the new series, sorry.
Before the fall, there will be lots of plot rumors which could be considered spoilerish. That is mostly what I was referring to. I was mostly asking members to be kind and label. With lots of please with sugar on top.
And I apologize for not answering your question sooner about the spoiler code, but we had no way of knowing if MB was going to be able to get an SE forum working or if it would have to be converted to the SMF version, and so reinstalling the SE mods wasn't a big priority. But as you can see, MB has been a very busy bee overnite. [wink2]
MB as well as Dom and you have been little busy beavers and I just figured it didn't work in our temp home. Or, I had lost them for some reason because of blindness in me old age! Hopefully, they will work by the fall because I have a sneaking feeling we are really going to need them. (I'm in wishful thinking mode.)
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I just figured it didn't work in our temp home. Or, I had lost them for some reason because of blindness in me old age! Hopefully, they will work by the fall because I have a sneaking feeling we are really going to need them. (I'm in wishful thinking mode.)
The spoiler feature IS back; sorry that I wasn't clear. You're correct that the spoiler code didn't work on the temp forum, which was completely stripped of mods. But the temp forum isn't needed anymore, and all the mods were returned last nite with only one exception: We had to say buh bye to the attachment feature. The ability to upload attachments will NOT be returning anytime soon, and probably not until our next conversion. Our new webhost and the attachment feature were like oil and water. :(
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victoriawinters, your reasoning makes sense. With a new show, I imagine most announcements would just be the regular cast. And, if there were some really interesting guest star, until the show started, there would be no way of knowing who that person would really be.
The only thing I can think of that would be a problem is if a former DS actor were to make an appearance. But, in that case, there would probably be a lot of publicity and you wouldn't be able to avoid it!
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Concerning spoilers, could there be added to the General Discussion area, a "WB Dark Shadows" (for lack of better name) forum for all discussion of the new show? That might help people not wanting to be spoiled. As Raineypark mentioned, "The number of posts that this will generate over the next 8 months will be huge, I have no doubt. And all it will take is one person to forget to "spoiler" somthing and all that effort will be wasted." Perhaps a seperate forum would make it less likely (hopefully) for a person to be spoiled. Threads concerning the original series wouldn't get "buried" among the discussion about the new version. Anyway, just a thought.
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Interesting....
I've never been to the wb's site, so just now (while reading this thread), I went there.
I put Dark Shadows in the search area; supernatural type stuff came up (Angel, Charmed, people's I guess personal sites for witchcraft).
Interesting...no?
Patti
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Concerning spoilers, could there be added to the General Discussion area, a "WB Dark Shadows" (for lack of better name) forum for all discussion of the new show?
You're reading my mind because, if the WB DS pilot is picked up as a series, it will definitely have its own section on the forum. [wink2]
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You're reading my mind because, if the WB DS pilot is picked up as a series, it will definitely have its own section on the forum. [wink2]
That's one section of the forum I eagerly look forward to posting in! Perhaps with my mind reading ability I could even become one of those new characters on the show. :)
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Yet another online article discussing the proposed new DS: http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|86120|1|,00.html (http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|86120|1|,00.html)
ProfStokes
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Thanks for the link Prof! I can't wait to see how everything turns out.
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Just found out that Angel has been cancelled. Perhaps this increases DS's chances of being being picked up as a series to replace Angel? Still hate to see a vampire show go though.
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According to the news reports, WB wanted to free up it's schedule for new shows. Many of the other shows it has are leaving or will be ending next season.
But many of us Angel fans know how the WB has treated the show in recent years, little promotion, almost not renewing it for Season 5, not updating their own website or ordering their normal 22 shows until a few shows into the season. I remember the slick ad piece that came in the LA Times back in the fall. It had a cursory mention of the show and a little tiny picture. Even before the new DS was announced, there were already doubts that Season 6 of Angel was a done deal.
Also, still no official word that the new DS is going to be picked up for the season. Thus, the co-relation of the two events seems to be sketchy at best.
Ironically, I found out about Angel's cancellation looking for news about the new Dark Shadows at the Variety.com site. Friday the 13th never ceases to amaze me.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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But many of us Angel fans know how the WB has treated the show in recent years, little promotion, almost not renewing it for Season 5, not updating their own website or ordering their normal 22 shows until a few shows into the season.
Funny - Angel's ratings have been higher this season than in recent years, so it's odd that the WB would cancel it now. :-
I wonder if UPN might pick it up? If the WB had canceled it last year, they were still interested in acquiring it...
Even before the new DS was announced, there were already doubts that Season 6 of Angel was a done deal.
Also, still no official word that the new DS is going to be picked up for the season. Thus, the co-relation of the two events seems to be sketchy at best.
Well, yes, the WB DS pilot hasn't even been shot yet, much less picked up.
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Funny - Angel's ratings have been higher this season than in recent years, so it's odd that the WB would cancel it now. :-
I wonder if UPN might pick it up? If the WB had canceled it last year, they were still interested in acquiring it...
Yes, quite true.... It's very odd.
Would be great if UPN would pick it up, or the TV special event deal would go through on WB. This was just announced yesterday so we'll have to wait until everything shakes out.
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Yesterday, the Barnabas Undead site (http://www.barnabasundead.com) posted what it's calling pilot episode script details in its Mausoleum section. There are spoilers aplenty, so beware.
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Just a quick note to say that Rob Bowman has been confirmed as the pilot's director. As some fans will know, Rob has worked on "Dark Shadows" before, directing two episodes of the 1991 series...
When not working on DS, he's also slummed it on some little series called The X-Files, apparently... ;)
Seriously, he's a good choice, and it's kinda reassuring having some "in the loop", so to speak, to set the ball rolling :)
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That's great news. Thanks, Stuart!
I might add that Variety's announcement contradicts the info on the Barnabas Undead site that was provided by their "reliable source", though the site does acknowledge that it was unconfirmed. ::)
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I also wonder whether the script Barn Undead was given is for real. The summary reads like a MAD Magazine or Carol Burnett Show skit on the program. At least it could be entertaining, which is saying a lot, these days.
I wonder whether the WB are hoping for product placement revenue from Keno and IHOP?
Ryan Seacrest's show is being taken off the air, so he is now available to play Barnabas. A little long in tooth by the WB's standards, but what the hey.
G.
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I also think it is great to have Rob Bowman direct the pilot. Ironically, I have been seeing his name every day for the past decade as I have his director's chair from the 1991 Dark Shadows which I obtained at an auction at one of the fests.
I find it hard to believe that casting has not been completed (as per Barnabasundead) with filming to start any day. I am not sure why they are even keeping the actors' identities who have already been selected a big secret. Just wondering.
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I find it hard to believe that casting has not been completed (as per Barnabasundead) with filming to start any day. I am not sure why they are even keeping the actors' identities who have already been selected a big secret. Just wondering.
Well, the '91 DS pilot didn't begin shooting until March 19, 1990, and the first casting news (published in USA Today) didn't start filtering out until just four days before that on the 15th. And if we can believe the info on the My Entertainment World Web site, the WB DS pilot isn't slated to begin production until sometime this March.
It was actually May 1990 before ShadowGram reported the complete '91 cast and publicity photos of some cast members began to surface. Of course, that was before the Internet was as popular as it is today. So, somehow I'm sure we'll be hearing something long before May, and I doubt anyone is actually trying to keep any casting news a "big secret." ;)
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Thanks for the info on the filming of the 1991 pilot. That was helpful in putting things in perspective for me and giving me a frame of reference for the soon to be filmed pilot.
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Agree with you MB. I think it's too early for a cast if the director just was announced. Usually, the director has input in the casting decision.
Also, want to chime in that sometimes actors are replaced between pilot and fall show. BIG example of this is the character of Willow on Buffy. The unaired pilot had a different actress. Network said no and Alyson Hannigan ended up in the role.
Thus, even if the cast gets announced it can change between pilot and fall. (If we even get that far.)
I must say mighty impressive credentials for this director. Long list of Sci-Fi/Horror going back to Alien Nation, Werewolf, Star Trek NTG. Oh and he is 43. Wonder if he was a run home from school kid of the original show?
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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Ryan Seacrest's show is being taken off the air, so he is now available to play Barnabas. A little long in tooth by the WB's standards, but what the hey.
Aw, I'm sorry to hear that Ryan Seacrest's show is being taken off the air. I usually watch it and find Ryan very entertaining. Somehow I can't picture him playing Barnabas. However, he'd be great at playing Elizabeth's younger, but childless, brother IMO. :-*
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The futon critic's website ( a major media source of entertainment news) is conducting a poll and asks "Which of the WB's drama pilots would you most like to see get a series order?
Dark Shadows
Global Frequency
Jack and Bobby
Mountain
Prodigy
Robinsons:Lost In Space
Rocky Point
When I placed my vote it revealed D.S. was in the lead at 54% to Lost In Space's 35%. This could be a surprisingly close vote due to each show's large fan base. Hopefully everyone here places a vote and passes the info along.
Vote at www.thefutoncritic.com
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I didn't know WB was also doing a Lost In Space remake. I was just as much a LIS fanatic as a kid as I was a DS one. If I couldn't live in Collinwood, I wanted to be a Robinson. But it stated that this version will not have Dr. Smith, although there will be a robot. Danger, Will Robinson! But that would be more like the original pilot for the '65 series (the unaired pilot first shown on the Sci-Fi network), which did not have a Dr. Smith (or even a robot). And Dr. Smith, when added during new scenes shot for inclusion in the pilot aired on CBS, was originally intended to survive for just a few episodes, his devious presence causing tension, thus fleshing out the other characters, and then be killed off. But he was so popular, he stayed around for the entire series. Ironically, kinda mirroring what was originally suppose to happen to that Barnabas guy on Dark Shadows and how that all turned out.
Gerard
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What's this--Lost in Space without the infamous Dr. Zachary Smith??? Heresy!
Oh the pain--the pain!
Methinks somebody at the "WB" has been talking too much to a certain "bubble headed booby"!
G.
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I didn't know WB was also doing a Lost In Space remake.
Someone hasn't been reading the forum thoroughly. For shame! :o
We may have to drag you to the mausoleum's secret room and seal you in a coffin as punishment for that! ;)
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I agree that it is interesting but I also know that the WB has commissioned a pilot for a new version of Lost in Space for next fall so apparently they are dabbling in classic tv concepts to see what they can resurrect, but ultimately may chose to do on none of them.
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...the fact that the wb has not orderd the plot to be made yet,i don,t think is a good sign.they already orderd the lost in space remake and there in the stage of casting it.
... " I think we have a very healthy balance between some passion projects that carve out new territory as well as strong franchise projects, Levin said."
Hopefully, in the latter he was referring to Dark Shadows and Lost In Space.?
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But seriously, the only other dramatic pilot I've read about at the WB is an update of "Lost in Space." ...
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sorry i missed most of this (have been ill for a few weeks hopefully on the mend)i would like to see a next generation of the Collins family. to me to do the same old remake is boring{hated 1991}Barnabas could return
but poor Julia should be gone as i can't bear to see anyone but Grayson in this role!Baseball season is upon us so much of my energy goes there
so this pilot would have to be very special to get my attention!
jennifer
ps Patti LOVE CORD too maybe he could be on the New DS!the boy still looks good!
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I do deserve to be beaten by garlic cloves, MB! How did I miss that? But now that I think about, I do sorta recall hearing something about the LIS remake.
But like Gothick says, I can't imagine it without Dr. Smith. I actually think it would be a far more interesting series if they keep the Colonel (that was his rank) as an evil character, rather than the loveable buffoon he became in the original (which was by Jonathan Harris' own design). He was far more interesting in the first coupla months episodes where he ramained a cunning danger to the family, doing everything from trying to murder them to betraying them to vicious aliens in order to save his own neck. Anyway, I guess that's enough of that, since this is a DS and not LIS board, but it was fun to reminisce about another one of my old favorite shows for just a few minutes. By the way, as a last and final end, the part of Dr. Zachary Smith was originally to go to Carroll O'Connor, but he had to back out because of scheduling conflicts with his involvement in filming the movie version of Michener's Hawaii. It woulda been interesting to see Dr. Smith calling the robot a "Meathead", though.
Gerard (Who's Trying To Picture Jean Stapleton Playing Elizabeth Collins Stoddard - "Roger! Burke! Please don't fight today! It's Henry Mancini's birthday!" "And then, in the middle of the seance, this big can of mm-MM-mm - in heavy syrup - came flying across the room and hit Vicki in the head!")
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I do deserve to be beaten by garlic cloves, MB!
Well, I suppose we can overlook it this time. But keep confinement to a small box filled with an endless darkness in mind the next time you (or anyone else) start to fall behind in your post reading. ;D
FYI: Some casting news for the LIS pilot was posted on Sci-Fi's Web site today. Check the news item out here (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-02/24/10.00.tv).
Gerard (Who's Trying To Picture Jean Stapleton Playing Elizabeth Collins Stoddard - "Roger! Burke! Please don't fight today! It's Henry Mancini's birthday!" "And then, in the middle of the seance, this big can of mm-MM-mm - in heavy syrup - came flying across the room and hit Vicki in the head!")
ROFL!!
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MB...I love you, honor you and listen to most everything you say.....but I draw the line:
posted on Sci-Fi's Web site today. Check the news item out here.
BLAAAHHH TO SCI FI.... >:(
Patti
Carroll O'Connor as Dr. Smith.....boggles the imagination!!!
lololololololol clinged peached Vicki!!!!
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I actually think it would be a far more interesting series if they keep the Colonel (that was his rank) as an evil character, rather than the loveable buffoon he became in the original (which was by Jonathan Harris' own design). He was far more interesting in the first coupla months episodes where he ramained a cunning danger to the family, doing everything from trying to murder them to betraying them to vicious aliens in order to save his own neck.
I quite agree. Although I admit I enjoyed Dr. Smith's antics as a clown, I thought he showed much greater range when he was a real meanie. I met Jonathan Harris briefly at the same con where I met Jonathan Frid for the first time, and I have to say, Harris just knocked me out with his wit and obvious long dramatic experience. He was one of the most entertaining speakers I ever heard. I adopted a whole new respect for him that day.
--Mark
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As a big fan of Hong Kong Cinema, wanted to say how thrilled I am to see John Woo attached to the LIS project. Will be most interesting to see what he will do for the small screen in a direct way, instead of his influence in the indirect way.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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For those who may have wondered what happened to the poll at the Futon Critic's website asking which WB pilot do you wish see to series, I received a response from the website's Editor-in Chief: " Sadly the final results are not available as they were lost when an outsider tried to "stuff the ballot" in favor of one particular show and caused the poll to overload. We're looking into a way to prevent this from happening in the future."
Now that is a shame.
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Ryan Seacrest's show is being taken off the air, so he is now available to play Barnabas. A little long in tooth by the WB's standards, but what the hey.
Ryan Seacrest is 27 years old. Long in tooth?
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From the new Entertainment Weekly (March 12):
Pilot Greenlight?
Insiders take a flyby at fall's hottest shows-- coming from Mel Gibson, Jessica Simpson, and Method Man. by Lynette Rice
DARK SHADOWS (The WB, from ER's John Wells)
Dramatic remake of the 1960s sudser about a rich family under a vampire curse. BUZZ "The WB already ordered six scripts, so it's pretty safe to say it's going on the air."
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BUZZ "The WB already ordered six scripts, so it's pretty safe to say it's going on the air."
Well, isn't that a very interesting development?! Hopefully it's true.
Funny how we're always reluctant to believe good news until it's been confirmed by a dozen different sources. ;) But I suppose getting burned so many times in the past has made us abundantly cautious - even when great news seems to be staring us right in the face...
In this case, though, the fact that EW is published by Time-Warner, the WB's parent company, might give it more credence than if it had been published in almost any other magazine. :)
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Well, the '91 DS pilot didn't begin shooting until March 19, 1990, and the first casting news (published in USA Today) didn't start filtering out until just four days before that on the 15th. And if we can believe the info on the My Entertainment World Web site, the WB DS pilot isn't slated to begin production until sometime this March.
It was actually May 1990 before ShadowGram reported the complete '91 cast and publicity photos of some cast members began to surface. Of course, that was before the Internet was as popular as it is today. So, somehow I'm sure we'll be hearing something long before May, and I doubt anyone is actually trying to keep any casting news a "big secret." ;)
It's been almost a month since this was posted ("filming to start any day"). Why haven't we heard anything about the cast?
If any original cast members were to appear, surely we'd have heard something about that by now ...
Waiting impatiently, since that's all one can do ...
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It's been almost a month since this was posted ("filming to start any day"). Why haven't we heard anything about the cast?
An excerpt from:
ShadowGram Update #111
ShadowGram (SG) announces the following breaking news for Dark Shadows (DS).
--- DARK SHADOWS 2004 SIGNS FIRST CAST MEMBER
SG has learned that 30-year-old Los Angeles-born actress MARLEY SHELTON will portray governess Victoria Winters in the forthcoming "Dark Shadows" television pilot for the WB Network. She is the first performer to be signed for the proposed new series, which will begin filming later this month in the Los Angeles area.
Marley's past credits include the films "Pleasantville" and "Nixon." She played Tricia Nixon in the latter project, which, coincidentally, also featured Joanna Going, the 1991 "Dark Shadows'" Victoria Winters. Marley also was seen in the short-lived 1993 CBS primetime serial "Angel Falls," which co-starred Jean Simmons, who portrayed Elizabeth Collins Stoddard in the 1991 "Dark Shadows."
For the rest of the update, including an announcement about the pilot's director, click the above (SG #111) link.
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Interesting choice. I'll have to check out some of her work. I've seen PLEASANTVILLE but I don't remember her (or much of the movie for that matter).
What do you think about her age? I wonder if Viki will be thirty also? I guess this is a positive developement for those who were worried about WB casting a bunch of teenagers in major roles.
So far, so good I'd say. We're that much closer to a new DS.
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I saw Pleasantville fairly recently, but other than a couple of main characters I wouldn't remember who was who. I checked the IMDB and she's way down the list (on the 2nd page after clicking "more") - so it must have been a pretty small part.
Since they're mentioning all the coincidences of casting, Joan Allen who was Pat Nixon was also in Pleasantville!
I then checked Marley Shelton and I see she was in Uptown Girls. I haven't seen that yet but want to. This time she's listed right after the 2 leads.
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Im glad they're finally starting to choose the cast for the new DS.
Here are some of the movies that Marley Shelton has appeared in, maybe some of them will look familiar to you:
Never Been Kissed (1999)
Lured Innocence (1999)
Hairshirt (1998)
Pleasantville (1998)
Warriors of Virtue (1997)
The Trojan War (aka: Rescue Me) (1997)
Secret Between Friends (TV/1996)
Nixon (1995)
A Friend to die For (aka: The Death of a Cheerleader) (TV/1994)
Hercules in the Underworld (before 'Hercules' became a 1 hr series) (TV/1994)
Take Me Home Again (aka: The Lies Boys Tell) (TV/1994)
Ambush in Waco (part of HBO's "In the Line of Duty" series) (TV/1993)
The Sandlot (aka: The Sandlot Kids) (1993)
Grand Canyon (1991)
Marley was also in the following TV series:
Angel Falls (1993) as 'Brandi Dare'
Here's are a couple of links if anyone's interested in finding out more about the actress:
http://members.aol.com/fanforvm/marlee/ (http://members.aol.com/fanforvm/marlee/)
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hc&id=1800019209&cf=gen&intl=us (http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hc&id=1800019209&cf=gen&intl=us)
Cassandra
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It's been almost a month since this was posted ("filming to start any day"). Why haven't we heard anything about the cast?
I'm sure that Tim will soon be posting tonight's ShadowGram in its entirety, but here's an excerpt from it that answers your question
As you've probably gathered from a few of my recent posts, I subscribe to Variety's Web site. SG and Midnite got the jump on me with this, though, because the e-mail containing the news of Shelton's casting didn't come in until 03:38:09 am EST, and I didn't download/check out today's news stories until just a few minutes ago. But so long as the word gets out, it surely doesn't matter who posts it. ;)
For what it's worth, this is what Variety had to say (which is a whole lot less than SG has reported, but does include a credit that hasn't been mentioned yet):
'Kat,' 'Call' add thesps to pilots
Silverman, Moore, Shelton, Pyle secure key gigs
By MICHAEL SCHNEIDER
With several pilots about to go into production, networks and studios continued to fill up cast rosters Thursday
...
Also, thesps Jonathan Silverman ("The Single Guy"), Shemar Moore ("The Young and the Restless"), Marley Shelton ("Uptown Girls"), Missi Pyle ("Big Fish"), Justin Chatwin ("Traffic") and James Pickens Jr. ("The Lyon's Den") all secured key gigs.
...
In other casting news:
...
Shelton will play Victoria Winters in the WB's new Mark Verheiden/John Wells/Dan Curtis version of "Dark Shadows." Drama, from Warner Bros. TV and Wells, is a remake of the classic Gothic soap. Shelton's other credits include "Just a Kiss."[/b]
From "Uptown Girls" Official Web Site:
Other key roles were cast with actors with whom the filmmakers were already familiar from other projects. Producer Stevens had recently directed Marley Shelton in his film Just A Kiss, and actor Donald Faison worked with Boaz Yakin on Remember the Titans. Yakin says he immediately knew he wanted both actors for Uptown Girls.
"I had to have Marley Shelton as Ingrid," Boaz Yakin says. "She's able to convey Ingrid's sensitivity and high strung-qualities, and she's just a really good actress."
Unfortunately, though, if there are any photos of her on the site, I couldn't find them. :( She might appear in the trailer, but unless they identify the character Ingrid in it, without knowing what Shelton looks like, obviously we're not likely to spot her, so I didn't bother to check it out. ;) However, if anyone else is curious, you can access the site here (http://www.mgm.com/uptowngirls/mail.html).
Hopefully this will be the start of several such reports in the coming days. :)
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SG has learned that 30-year-old Los Angeles-born actress MARLEY SHELTON will portray governess Victoria Winters in the forthcoming "Dark Shadows" television pilot for the WB Network.
Well, this should put to rest anyone's fears that the WB DS will be populated by a bunch of teenagers. ;) And as the casting starts to fill out, hopefully we'll soon be able to speculate about a lot more constructive topics - like whether or not the actress who plays Julia will sport the austere hairdo that Barbara Steele did in the '91 remake or the more stylish 'dos of the '68 and beyond Grayson Hall. The really important stuff like that! [lghy]
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without knowing what Shelton looks like, obviously we're not likely to spot her
Ah ha - I found her here (http://www.hollywood.com/celebs/detail/celeb/187903). There's a very nice photo and a lengthy bio (and, hey, she's already played opposite a vamp - well, sort of - she was in Valentine, which starred Angel's David Boreanaz - though I can't say I can honestly place her character in the story).
Personally, I think she looks more like a Carolyn - very attractive, with blond hair. But, of course, nothing stops her from dying her hair darker, or even from the show completely departing from DC's "dream" governess with long dark hair. (Though, if the latter is the case, I can already foresee the conniption fits some "purists" in fandom are going to have! [lghy])
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Hair color is probably the most easily altered physical characteristic of all, in this day and age.
What I find much more significant is that she does NOT look 30 in that photo....so I'm not sure we're out of the "teenaged cast" woods yet.
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Since they're mentioning all the coincidences of casting, Joan Allen who was Pat Nixon was also in Pleasantville!
Ooooooooooooooooooooh, Joan Allen... there's a name I hadn't thought of. She'd be amazing for Elizabeth Collins Stoddard, wouldn't she?
Marley's an interesting choice - she looks very much like Nancy Barrett in some of her photos. Visually she's closer to Alexandra Moltke than Joanna Going. And yeah, I eagerly wait for the blonde/brunette debate to split fandom down the middle ;)
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But, of course, nothing stops her from dying her hair darker, or even from the show completely departing from DC's "dream" governess with long dark hair. (Though, if the latter is the case, I can already foresee the conniption fits some "purists" in fandom are going to have! [lghy])
Ok, I'll try to deal with the hair, but, if she doesn't wear sleeveless dresses, they can count me out. [smrtasb]
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30, she looks about l5 in that picture!
Birdie-who believes peanut M&M's are the perfect breakfast choice to go with her coffee.
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30, she looks about l5 in that picture!
Birdie-who believes peanut M&M's are the perfect breakfast choice to go with her coffee.
Well, I've never had M & M's for breakfast....but I have had a Hershey Kiss...or 2! ;)
And regarding the casting of the new DS, I don't give a damn how old the performer is, so long as the CHARACTERS aren't made younger just to entice a younger audience.
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30, she looks about l5 in that picture!
Well, her bio says that she's been acting for quite a few years, so who knows how old that particular picture might be. [idontknow]
As I said, I did see her in Valentine, and I don't really remember her character at all. But unless my mind is playing tricks on me (which I don't deny it does from time to time ;)) all the women characters in the film were already college graduates working on careers or, in the case of one of them who was studying to be a doctor, going to Med school, and they all looked to be in their early-to-mid-20s. Valentine was shot in spring or summer 2000 (I forget exactly, but it was during Boreanaz' hiatus between his first and second seasons of Angel) and, what a surprise, released about 9 months later, about 2 weeks before Valentine's Day 2001 (after all, there's nothing like a movie featuring a homicidal maniac who, 13 years later, is murdering all the girls whom he feels treated him badly in junior high to get one in a romantic mood, right? [wink2]) So, it was shot close to 4 years ago. Not that I want to be in the least bit ungallant, but I'd say she most probably looks to be in at least her mid-20s by now.
Unfortunately, I have quite a few other things that I have to work on for the rest of the day, so I won't have the opportunity to search for what we'll know for sure is a more recent photo. But if anyone would like to take on that task (hint, hint :)), please, by all means do so...
Birdie-who believes peanut M&M's are the perfect breakfast choice to go with her coffee.
An excellent example to set for your kids. :D
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This is the most recent picture I could find, from January 2003:
(http://www.collinwood.net/ebay/shelton.jpg)
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Maybe I just have DS on the brain but she bears a resemblance to Lara Parker. I hope she colors her hair brown. Trying to keep an open mind until I see the new show. 8)
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Oh look! Brunette roots... There may be hope for the Victoria as brunette purists.
In her IMDB entry, there is a picture of her with a "Victoria" vunerable "I Don't Know" kinda look. Let's see who else they get in the next few days. It will interesting also to see if these actors will be around for the fall shows.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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The "new" Victoria can be blonde, brunette or a Titian red-head for all of me.....what I want to know is, is she going to be "innocent and vulnerable", or terminally stupid like the original Victoria was reduced to being? THAT'S a characteristic they do NOT want to replicate.
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In reply #71 of this thread, Cassandra provided a link (thanks!) that has a multitude of photo's of Marley Shelton, the most recent being taken at a premiere (of Uptown Girls) in August of 2003. She's wearing a white dress with an over-one-shoulder strap. It is the second link offered in the reply. Click on more photo's once you get there.
The purist side of me is somewhat disappointed with the choice. The other side (don't know what to call it) of me is quite happy that a choice has been made and that she is credited with being a very good actress, which I think is a very, very good thing. I'll take good acting over hair color any day.
I find this all very exciting! It's a lot of fun being in on the developements as they unfold as opposed to finding out a week in advance of the series premiere and being totally unprepared and ultimately disappointed, as was the case for me personally with the 91 series. I'm finding, that it's much better for me to have the time to get over any personal prejudices and disapprovals that would ultimately get in the way as I know they would if I had to deal with them while viewing the show at the same time.
Thanks to all who've provided links and quotes,
dom
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In reply #71 of this thread, Cassandra provided a link (thanks!) that has a multitude of photo's of Marley Shelton
Cassandra - my sincere apology. In all the excitement I neglected to check out the links you provided. Dom isn't kidding when he says the Yahoo site has a multitude of photos. You did such a great job with Marley Shelton that I definitely think we're going to draft you as the forum's official WB DS cast member photo finder. Get your searching abilities ready to go full throttle again as soon as the next actor is announced. [wink2]
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This is the most recent picture I could find, from January 2003:
A great photo, Stuart. Thanks so much for finding and posting it. :)
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It will interesting also to see if these actors will be around for the fall shows.
Unless I'm greatly mistaken, I don't believe that the shows on the WB routinely make it a habit to recast between pilot and series. Yes, Willow was recast between the original Buffy pilot and the series. But it's my understanding that the need to recast was made by Joss Whedon and the casting director Marcia Shulman because they decided Willow actually needed to be a bit more hip, more vulnerable, less frumpy, and less of a classic outcast.
After looking at the photos of Marley Shelton on Yahoo, frumpy is definitely not the word that comes to mind. [wink2]
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I really thought that they would have hired a younger actress to play Victoria who has that natural innocent and vulnerable look. Who knows how Shelton will look in five years from now( we can only hope it lasts that long). I believe Joanna Going was 27 at the time the pilot was filmed but she appeared to look much younger in my opinion. Time will tell what the producers saw in Shelton's audition.
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This may not be of interest to many (and yes, I do feel absolutely silly about it) but I was so taken by this photo that I thought I'd provide a link for those who might like to check it out. It is of Marley Shelton in her appearence in VALENTINE (which MB mentioned in one of his posts above). What I found so interesting about it is that the guy she is seen with in this photo reminds me so much of Burke Devlin. So I can't help but look at it and make believe that it is a shot of Viki and Burke from the new series. Sort of my own personal litmus test of acceptance of the new Viki and the series in general. I suppose there will be no Burke Devin in this new series, but it sure helped with the fantasy aspect of it for me. if there were to be a Burke Devlin in the new series, I would surely nominate this guy to play the role.
http://www.allmovieportal.com/mp/2001_valentine_003.html (http://www.allmovieportal.com/mp/2001_valentine_003.html)
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Thanks for posting the link to that Valentine photo, dom, because it made me remember that Shelton played Boreanaz' ex-girlfriend with whom his character wanted very much to reconcile. I liked her character in the film - and now I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what she can do with Vicki. :)
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What I found so interesting about it is that the guy she is seen with in this photo reminds me so much of Burke Devlin.
if there were to be a Burke Devlin in the new series, I would surely nominate this guy to play the role.
Hey Dom,
That guy is none other than David Boreanaz, he played Angel on the WB t.v. show of the same name that was recently canceled. So Mr. Boreanaz may be available to play Burke, or perhaps some other character on the show!!. :)
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he played Angel on the WB t.v. show of the same name that was recently canceled. So Mr. Boreanaz may be available to play Burke, or perhaps some other character on the show!!. :)
Actually, earlier today I read in Sci-Fi's News Wire that there are rumors that the WB may be feeling that they've canceled Angel prematurely. (Personally, I haven't yet decided if getting rid of Angel will/would be a good, bad or completely inconsequential thing for a WB DS.) Of course, it's only rumor - and rumors in these circumstances often have absolutely no basis in fact - but if any of it does eventually turn out to be true, Boreanaz may not be out of a job just yet. ;)
Anyone interested in reading what's going around should go here (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-03/12/10.45.rumors)...
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Looks like my impatience over the lack of casting information was rewarded (?) within hours of my late-night post on Thurs/Fri. ;D
Maybe I just have DS on the brain but she bears a resemblance to Lara Parker. I hope she colors her hair brown. Trying to keep an open mind until I see the new show. 8)
Maria, it's not just you. I immediately thought of Lara Parker with my first glance of the first photo of Ms. Shelton posted in this thread. That impression was reinforced with the second photo posted.
I really don't see any resemblance to Nancy Barrett. Like Ms. Parker, the young actress has very large eyes, rather a cute-little-button nose, and a full mouth and lips similarly shaped. This reminds me of a book I read once on beauty that described what is generally deemed universally beautiful in a woman's face, and the attributes included slightly babyish, childlike quality of features (the large eyes, etc.), such as Marilyn Monroe epitomized.
Also worth noting is the mention of the replacement director for the pilot episode. What fantastic news that a director of this stature will be onboard to get the new series off and running. I've wanted to see the new Peter Pan, and although I haven't, I was impressed with the qualities I saw in an extended preview of it, especially the vivid visual, magical look of the new film, and also the sensual quality of Wendy's awakening and the pagan underpinnings of "the Pan" ... it looked like a layer of sophistication beneath the surface of the timeless children's story.
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Hey, she does look a great deal older in the photo Stuart posted and very attractive. Hate to say it as I mature it seems everyone looks younger.hehe. Mind you it kills me that I am the oldest one at my place of employment, not that I act it. STill horrified that I have a child 22 and no one seems shocked. Back to DS... I was telling my children about the new DS last night at super, real food, advising them to check it out when it airs. {MB how is that for a good example} The l5 and l3 year old seemed interested, the oldest said he isn't into the vampire thing, must get that from his father's side of the family, but might check it out anyway.
Birdie--coffee this morning no M & M's.
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Marley does bear a passing resemblance to Lara Parker, although from the few things I've seen her in, I don't know if she's quite right for Angelique. I'm not sure how well she would portray "sinister." I did see Sugar and Spice a while back; I think it was on HBO when I was a con last year. The movie was sort of a (mediocre) black comedy, though from I recall, she was reasonably good in it. She may well be a fine choice for Vicki, although I'm not likely to ever get over Joanna Going. I've putting in requests since 1991 for Joanna to come be my governess, but I guess they keep getting lost in the mail.
--Mark
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I re-watched my "Pleasantville" DVD today and was pleasantly surprised. Marley's really photogenic onscreen (a lot more than the stills I've seen, certainly) and she played innocent really well, without seeming stupid. I can really see a lot of qualities in that performance that will work for Vicki.
And yeah, I think PJ Hogan is a wonderful choice of director - a lot better than Bowman in some respects. While I like a lot of Rob's work, he doesn't really strike me as an "actor's" director, and he has a kinda slick coldness to his stuff.
Hogan's track record is much more character-based, and should certainly nail the romance element. I can really see his take on "Dark Shadows" being much more fairy-tale and magical, with child-like wonder. Could be good :)
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But so long as the word gets out, it surely doesn't matter who posts it.
Apparently there was no worry that the news of Marley Shelton's casting would get out. Just for the fun of it I did a Web search on the subject and came up with over 30 sites that have reported the news in the past two days (the vast majority of which have no connection to DS whatsoever). :)
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David Boreanaz on working with Marley Shelton:
You made your mark getting hot and heavy with Sarah Michelle. What was it like to get romantic with Marley Shelton?
Marley was just fantastic to work with. I really pushed for her. If she hadn't been my leading lady, I might not have done the film. She has an old-school quality to her very reminiscent of the Golden Age of Hollywood, which I really identify with. Romancing her was beautiful. I loved it.
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I just did my weekly check of the My Entertainment World Web site, and their TV PRODUCTION EVENTS, TV PILOT / TV MINI SERIES chart is reporting that the pilot has a start of production date of March 22nd:
DARK SHADOWS - (TV Pilot - One Hour Drama for WB) - March 22, 2004 - Los Angeles
On the other hand, Variety isn't reporting any start date (well, at least not on the chart on their Web site). However, that might be a smarter move, considering that so many roles have yet to be cast, and who knows if the final choices will have even been made for them within the next 8 days?
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I'm wondering what location will be used for the Collinwood exteriors. The previous one (1991) just screamed "California" -- I had a hard time with the show for that reason alone. Couldn't say the interiors were my idea of a mansion in Maine, but then I haven't been in a mansion in Maine.
And please don't let them make a Collinwood miniature for the opening credits -- that godawful fake creation for the 1991 series was so tacky, please, God ...
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when I was a con last year.
Say what, Mark???!! :o
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I'm wondering what location will be used for the Collinwood exteriors. The previous one (1991) just screamed "California" -- I had a hard time with the show for that reason alone. Couldn't say the interiors were my idea of a mansion in Maine, but then I haven't been in a mansion in Maine.
And please don't let them make a Collinwood miniature for the opening credits -- that godawful fake creation for the 1991 series was so tacky, please, God ...
I think it would be neat if they could again use Seaview as the model for Collinwood. They could construct fake facades for exterior close shots, plus create another model for long-range shots, but this time around with better computer graphics combined with more detailed miniatures, it would not have to look like that horrible Legoland thing from the '91 series. For Pete's sake, the shot of Rose Cottage from the original, which was nothing more than that dollhouse set before a pic of trees, looked more realistic.
Gerard
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That would be a nice nod to the original fans of the show, Gerard. It's probably unlikely that they would do so because of cost. I think it would also be thrilling to recreate the interior sets from the original series. At least the foyer and landing, and Drawing room sets. Wishful thinking, I know, but it would be nice.
I remember the first time I got to revisit the series in the 90's (I think) on video and how wonderful is was for me to see the old sets again, it was like seeing an old friend I hadn't seen in 20 years. It made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, lol. I laugh, but it really made me feel that way.
Now, if we could only get them to film the new series in black and white - just kidding folks! ;D
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Now, if we could only get them to film the new series in black and white - just kidding folks! ;D
Now wouldn't THAT be bold and innovative? Oh, wait....this is commercial television. Never mind.
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I came across an interesting bit of news regarding Marley Shelton on the Latino Loop Web site:
LATINO LOOP for the week of March 1 - 7, 2004
Director Robert Rodriguez (Once Upon A Time in Mexico) is
adapting Frank Miller's novel "Sin City" for film. Josh Hartnett
and Marley Shelton are set to star in the flick, about the shady
inhabitants of a sinister city where morality is highly lacking.
So I checked through Variety's archives and came across this:
'Sin' tempts Dimension
Robert Rodriguez has committed to direct "Sin City," an adaptation of the Frank Miller graphic noir crime novel series. Dimension Films co-chairman Bob Weinstein has given Rodriguez the go-ahead to begin shooting next month in Austin, Texas.
Posted 2/25/04 10:00pm
So, unless Shelton's participation in the film has somehow changed and I just haven't come across that bit of news yet, apparently it looks like Shelton will be doing double-duty, acting in both "Sin City" and the DS pilot because, according to an article that was posted on Variety's Web site yesterday, the film is already in production in Austin. (Which may mean keeping her hair blonde if that's the look Rodriguez wants for the film...)
Regarding Shelton being a blonde, I thought of something that might be interesting if they do decide to leave Vicki blonde (and not go with a brunette wig): What if the new series is planning to explore the possibility that Vicki actually is Liz's daughter and Carolyn's sister? If they cast a blonde as Carolyn, that would make the resemblance between Vicki and Carolyn more pronounced than it has been in past DS incarnations. And (horror of horror to the "purists") they could even cast Liz as a blonde (though, if memory serves me correctly (and I'm sure our resident Bennett expert, Luciphil, will correct me if I'm wrong), wasn't Joan Bennett a natural blonde who dyed her hair darker in order to get better roles in Hollywood?).
As for the house they'll use as Collinwood - I think I miight actually be anticipating learning that news more than I am learning who'll be cast in the remaining roles. ;)
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So, unless Shelton's participation in the film has somehow changed and I just haven't come across that bit of news yet, apparently it looks like Shelton will be doing double-duty, acting in both "Sin City" and the DS pilot because, according to an article that was posted on Variety's Web site yesterday, the film is already in production in Austin.
That doesn't sound easy -- especially when the role of Victoria Winters is a major one.
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I came across an interesting bit of news regarding Marley Shelton on the Latino Loop Web site:
Good catch!
I just checked with the Hollywood Reporter and it also lists the production of Sin City starting in March with Josh Hartnett. What gives?
As I indicated before I am not at all thrilled with the selection of Shelton playing Victoria. I am concerned that perhaps in time she may not pull off playing a character in her early twenties.
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I am concerned that perhaps in time she may not pull off playing a character in her early twenties.
Well, do we actually know that Vicki will be in her early-20s in the WB DS? Vicki was 20 when the original DS began in '66 - but Vicki was aged to 25 in the '91 series. Perhaps Vicki has been similarly aged in her new incarnation - or perhaps even older than 25...
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Well, Joan always described herself as being blonde in her early years. I have no doubt that she had help from beauty products in the films in which she appeared as a blonde--this was the 1930s when artifice ruled.
In all seriousness, I think the only way folks are going to be able to enjoy the New WB Dark Shadows is to forget about every previous version of the series and just take it as a brand new product. As far as I was concerned, even though she was dark and pretty, the only thing the Vicki of the 1991 redaction had in common with the 1966 character was the name. (It was rather sweet that someone had the idea of having Victoria Winters in that series *born* in the year 1966--definitely a nod to the fans.)
I think it would be interesting to cast totally AGAINST the expected type for some of the roles. For instance, I always thought it would have added extra dimension to have had Angelique played by a dark skinned actress with a Caribbean flair to her. That would have been very controversial in 1967, but it would add all sorts of plot stuff to play with in the new series, particularly if the series incorporates a more realistic view of US society in the 1790s (lol did I just write "realism" in connection with a WB show? quick, MB, hand me the smelling salts, I must be poor in the head!)
G.
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For instance, I always thought it would have added extra dimension to have had Angelique played by a dark skinned actress with a Caribbean flair to her.
This would indeed be interesting. At least one of the Ross Dark Shadows novels (I believe it was The Foe of Barnabas Collins) described Angelique exactly this way. I imagine it was written directly from the original character treatment, before Lara Parker would have been cast. On the other hand, perhaps not; I'm pretty well convinced Dan Ross never saw an episode of Dark Shadows in his life.
I'm also very much hoping the setting is more convincingly New England-ish. The howlingly obvious California setting of the 91 series (in combination with the Collinwood miniature) was distracting enough to destroy the necessary suspension of disbelief.
--Mark
P.S.
>>when I was a con last year.<<
Say what, Mark???!!
With all the online exchanges that don't even approach the king's English, Darren has to go and catch me in a very silly typo. Watch it, buddy, or I'll edit yer movie! ;)
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Well, Joan always described herself as being blonde in her early years. I have no doubt that she had help from beauty products in the films in which she appeared as a blonde--this was the 1930s when artifice ruled.
Agreed. Hence my qualification of "how blonde, I'm not sure" ;)
In all seriousness, I think the only way folks are going to be able to enjoy the New WB Dark Shadows is to forget about every previous version of the series and just take it as a brand new product.
This is probably a very good idea. If the actors are good, then I think I can deal :)
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Well, do we actually know that Vicki will be in her early-20s in the WB DS? Vicki was 20 when the original DS began in '66 - but Vicki was aged to 25 in the '91 series. Perhaps Vicki has been similarly aged in her new incarnation - or perhaps even older than 25...
Yes that is a good question. Hate to speculate about these things in the dark. According to the sides, which were used for the 2004 auditions, Carolyn, Haskell and Willie were described to be in their "20s". Perhaps there is an insider here who knows how old Victoria is suppose to be in the 2004 pilot?
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For instance, I always thought it would have added extra dimension to have had Angelique played by a dark skinned actress with a Caribbean flair to her.
This would indeed be interesting. At least one of the Ross Dark Shadows novels (I believe it was The Foe of Barnabas Collins) described Angelique exactly this way. I imagine it was written directly from the original character treatment, before Lara Parker would have been cast.
In "Angelique's Descent," Lara Parker says that Angelique is part black, doesn't she? That her mother was either half or one-quarter black?
I was rather surprised at that given Ms. Parker's very fair looks.
It would be interesting if this time around Victoria is a blonde and Angelique dark-haired (a la Cassandra). Guess we need to be prepared to have our preconceptions shaken up, and maybe for the better unless we want another retread of the 1991 series.
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unless Shelton's participation in the film has somehow changed and I just haven't come across that bit of news yet, apparently it looks like Shelton will be doing double-duty ... (Which may mean keeping her hair blonde if that's the look Rodriguez wants for the film...)
Update:
'Sin' tempts Dimension
Rodriguez casts remaining roles; pic's opening already shot
By MICHAEL FLEMING
Robert Rodriguez has committed to direct "Sin City," an adaptation of the Frank Miller graphic noir crime novel series.
Dimension Films co-chairman Bob Weinstein has given Rodriguez the go-ahead to begin shooting next month in Austin, Texas. Rodriguez will produce with Elizabeth Avellan through his Troublemaker Studios label.
Set in Sin City, the film interconnects storylines that involve the unsavory inhabitants of the town. Rodriguez has already shot the film's opening with Josh Hartnett and Marley Shelton, and he's now casting the remaining roles as the rest of the film gets under way in March.
...
Rodriguez said the film consists of multiple storylines involving characters with questionable morals. "The morality tales and a love story revolve around this dark city, which is really the main character in the film."
...
Date in print: Thurs., Feb. 26, 2004[/b]
So, not only won't Shelton be doing double-duty, but hair color speculation is definitely back in play. ;)
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So, not only won't Shelton be doing double-duty, but hair color speculation is definitely back in play. ;)
This doesn't mean, though, that Ms. Shelton is done with her filming for "Sin City," does it? Just that it won't conflict with filming the DS pilot next week (supposedly)? But that still leaves additional DS episodes to film potentially during the remainder of her work on "Sin City"?
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This doesn't mean, though, that Ms. Shelton is done with her filming for "Sin City," does it?
Perhaps. Or perhaps not. At the moment I'm leaning toward the perhaps she is done.
I haven't posted everything that I learned about the plot of Sin City. Apparently it goes something like this: [spoiler]Marv, a tough guy who meets the girl of his dreams, Goldie, only to see her murdered on that same night, searches every bar and shady hideout in Vegas looking for the killer. Given that Shelton and Hartnett have shot what's being referred to in reports as the film's (10 minute) opening sequence, I'm assuming, which is dangerous, I know, but I'm assuming that she's the murdered Goldie. I suppose it's possible that her character could be seen in flashbacks thereafter... However, the reason director Robert Rodriguez shot the opening, was to hopefully convince Frank Miller (the author as well as artist behind the Sin City graphic novels series) to come on board (which he's been able to do) and to persuade his dream actors to sign on (which he's still in the process of doing) before production resumes on March 29th. If Shelton is Goldie, and if she'is never seen again after her murder, well, then it would seem as if her participation might have already completed[/spoiler]
But who knows? I guess time will tell...
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From Variety's Web site:
Posted: Sun., Mar. 21, 2004, 3:09pm PT
...
By MICHAEL SCHNEIDER
...
Meanwhile, on the casting front, Ivana Milicevic has joined the cast of the WB's "Dark Shadows," while Rachael Harris will star in NBC's "Weekends"; Rashaan Nall has officially been cast in UPN's "One on One" spinoff; and Boogie has boogied on over to UPN's "Nikki and Nora."
Milicevic ("Mind of the Married Man") will play Angelique in "Dark Shadows," from Warner Bros. TV and John Wells Prods.
Wells, Mark Verheiden and Dan Curtis are behind the drama, which is based on the classic vampire sudser.
...[/b]
Date in print: Mon., Mar. 22, 2004, Los Angeles
Now the hunt is on for Web photos of Milicevic! [wink2]
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Milicevic ("Mind of the Married Man") will play Angelique in "Dark Shadows," from Warner Bros. TV and John Wells Prods.
Whoa! Thanks for the info, MB.
Ivana Milicevic (http://www.hbo.com/marriedman/the_show/cast_and_crew/ivana_milicevic.shtml)
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Whoa! Thanks for the info, MB.
Just doing my job. ;)
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I've just added a photograph and bio details on Ivana to my site:
http://www.collinwood.net
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TV Tome has some nice info here (http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/PersonDetail/personid-31325), too. ;)
Apparently she's no stranger to the WB, having appeared on:
Charmed - - Valhalley of the Dolls (1)(2) (2003),
Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Sam - As You Were (2002),
Felicity - Censa - Friends (1999),
Felicity - Censa - Hot Objects (1998),
Unhappily Ever After - Oksana - From Russia with Love (1997)
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Check out this listing (http://cgi.search123.com/cgi-bin/ksearch.cgi?aid=2345&QUERY=Ivana%20Milicevic&BRAND=1) for links to basically anything you might want to learn about Ivana Milicevic.
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Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Sam - As You Were (2002)
She was Riley's wife, whom he married on the rebound after losing Buffy. Or, as Willow referred to her, "what a bitch."
Not that I'm Buffy-centric or anything like that. ::)
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Here is a click of some vidcaps of her appearance in Buffy.
Buffy Caps (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/season6/vidcaps/asyouwere/asyouwere062.shtml)
Different color hair but a smile that might launch a few ships.
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A friend just told me about www.wireimage.com
They have 6 pages of photos of Ivanalique from various events. Just search the caption area by entering Ivana Milicevic.
He made up the name Ivanalique too, btw, and I think it's catchy. :D
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Sorry if this has been mentioned before (I'm also going against the thread's flow), but with all this talk about the possibility of the WB series being filled with inappropriately young actors (ya know, Vicki and Carolyn at Collinwood High, Barnabas at 25, Julia as a medical student etc), what I'm really wondering about is how a Dark Shadows that is at least semi-successful will affect the climate here on the forums.
I mean, think about it. If the show pulls in any fans from the WB base, the forums will probably see an influx of new members younger than the current youngest members.
I am by no means trying to put down the younger generations in our society. I've always thought agism is a big problem on the 'net. People from different age groups tend to have dialouges far less frequently in general than they do electronically. Clashes sometimes ensue. See: internet movie database message boards.
And about the concern over actor ages, I don't really understand it. The real Dark Shadows was often inclined to go for young actors. Alex Moltke and Lara Parker spring to mind, and the reason Frid and Grayson Hall dominated the show as it got going was not because the producers didn't want sexy 20-somethings running around, but because Barnabas and Julia were *really* popular.
And Marley Shelton, you ask? Well, that's fine I suppose as long as they're fundamentally changing Vik's character. You can go too far in either direction. I have to believe it would be a mistake to have a 30 yo actress playing a college age ingenue governess.
Well, that's it for me; back to lurking.
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You raise an interesting point, Miles....about younger fans of a NEW Dark Shadows finding this forum.....but I can't see it being a problem.
The kind of exchanges that create hostility and ill-will simply aren't tolerated here. The Moderators are particularly vigilent about that. And anyone, young or old, who makes a habit of being nasty, vulgar or cruel simply isn't going to get away with it.
We've had "youngsters" on here before and they've been amusing, enthusiastic and interesting. I don't see why we can't continue to expect that from young fans of the new show.
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True, Raineypark. As the Forums evolves, so will we all, along with it. Perhaps the Forums being closed to new registrations for so long spoiled (some of) us a little, even though on the bright side for me, it enabled a sense of "family" to grow. I think DS fandom as a whole, can use a shot in the arm that the new series (if...) will provide.
And if it gets picked up as a continuing series, it will be great to have a DS actually airing weekly to discuss. I am also looking forward to reading the views of those who are experiencing DS for the first time and will be posting from a totally fresh point of view without all the baggage of being a fan of the original or the 1991 series, (goodness knows I've got plenty, lol).
On another note- I am thrilled with the choice of Ivana Milicevic as Angelique. It's funny, I think I'm already hooked! And the pilot hasn't even started filming yet! A good sign, I think.
dom
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In a way, I think Miss Milicevic looks like Lara Parker. Her eyes are just as piercing. I consider her a very good choice to play our favorite witch.
Gerard
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In a way, I think Miss Milicevic looks like Lara Parker. Her eyes are just as piercing. I consider her a very good choice to play our favorite witch.
I didn't visit the board yesterday so missed the chance to see Ms. Milicevic on "Miami CSI" as announced by MB. Is that where you saw her eyes as piercing? That would be great if that's the case ...
The fact that she as a foreign look helps, even if she doesn't look French. Lara Parker didn't either! But hopefully her look will bring a certain exoticness to the role. Does she have an accent?
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Does she have an accent?
Not in the roles I've seen her in. But she moved from Bosnia to the US when she was only 5 and grew up in Michigan.
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I just did my weekly check of the My Entertainment World Web site, and their TV PRODUCTION EVENTS, TV PILOT / TV MINI SERIES chart is reporting that the pilot has a start of production date of March 22nd:
DARK SHADOWS - (TV Pilot - One Hour Drama for WB) - March 22, 2004 - Los Angeles
Has anyone heard anything about this yet?
Patti
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Nope - and if the two actors we know of are really the only ones to have been cast so far, I doubt very much they're shooting yet.
I think SG mentioned something about shooting beginning in late March or early April. Right now it's certainly looking more like early April.
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I finally got to see Uptown Girls tonight. Marley's part isn't as big as I expected, but it's fairly substantial. There wasn't a chance to see much range of acting, but at least I got a good look at her. I can't decide if she would make a "Vicki" or not!
I don't remember too much from Pleasantville, but I taped it the other night and hope to fast-forward through it to find her. Now that I know what she looks like from Uptown Girls, presumably I'll be able to spot her.
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Nope - and if the two actors we know of are really the only ones to have been cast so far, I doubt very much they're shooting yet.
I think SG mentioned something about shooting beginning in late March or early April. Right now it's certainly looking more like early April.
The last Shadowgram that I received electronically was issue # 111 dated 3/11/2004 and it reflected ..."which will begin filming later this month in the Los Angeles area."
Its really frustrating that Shadowgram has been a bit silent recently and did not report Ivana Milicevic' signing, to the best of my knowledge. Perhaps Dan Curtis is too busy with his other Showtime project, Our Fathers, which he is now filming, to bother informing Shadowgram with DS developments (if there are any). Its just hard for me to believe that they are having a hard time casting for Willie and Sheriff Patterson for example. It would be nice to get some confimed information like the production's start date, locations of filming etc.... I think we should be thrown a bone here and there.
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Its just hard for me to believe that they are having a hard time casting for Willie and Sheriff Patterson for example.
That presumes that there's going to BE a Sheriff Patterson....or even a Willie for that matter. Who knows how many of the original characters they're planning to have in the new series....or which ones they might be?
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well if bloodsuckers abound there is likely to be a police-nemesis sort and the bloodsuckers need a daytime stoodge .. a willie-sort . . .pretty stock characters.
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Well, we'd all like to think so.....but truthfully, what other Vampire character besides Dracula ever had a Willie-like servant? And even poor Renfield didn't last long before he ended up in the British equivalent of Wyndcliffe.
I'm not so sure either of those characters is an absolute must, from the new creators point of view. They could easily choose to skip the whole "Willie opens the casket" thing and have Barnabas arrive from Martinique in a shipping container.
They could also talk about the police without ever having them actually in a scene.....they certainly did that often enough on the original.
The point I'm making is simply that the show may be VERY different than what we're used to thinking of as Dark Shadows.....not just different in small degrees.
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That presumes that there's going to BE a Sheriff Patterson....or even a Willie for that matter.
According to info that was posted on the barnabasundead Web site, Willie was included in the initial casting call. What's interesting this time around is that, unlike in the '91 version in which Willie was Mrs. Johnson's nephew, [spoiler]supposedly there is no Mrs. Johnson - she's been replaced by a young female servant named Kelly Greer - and Willie is supposedly invloved with her somehow. Also, Willie supposedly works for Roger.[/spoiler]
As for Patterson, he may or may not be seen, but he's definitely mentioned...
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You know what I don't understand......why on earth is all this information available? Are they testing the waters for audience reaction before they've actually shot a single frame of film? Is this show being designed by poll results? Didn't it used to be that new shows were kept as secret as possible before they had to be shown to the Networks?
I know we're all having a great deal of fun speculating what a new DS might be like.....but I'd rather be in the dark about what's ACTUALLY going to show up on my TV some night, than be bored to death already before its debut.
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Basically, the info is available simply because it can be. In this age of the Internet, it's virtually impossible to keep anything a secret because there's always some "source" revealing something to some Web site that's more than willing to post it. That's one of the reasons why a lot of shows will deliberately "leak" fake info just to keep these sites offtrack.
As for barnabasundead, they actually had more detailed info about the pilot posted in their spoilers section than they do now, but they were "asked" to remove a good deal of it...
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Oh God. Are you saying that WAS the real pilot script they had on there?
That thing read like an old MAD Magazine skit on Dark Shadows. not one of their better skits, either.
I guess time will tell as regards the New WB Dark Shadows.
G.
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That thing read like an old MAD Magazine skit on Dark Shadows. not one of their better skits, either.
Oh, come on. We all know your feeling that DS should never be remade in any way, shape or form - but MAD Magazine?! There was nothing there that sounded anything like THAT. ;)
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Mad Magazine, eh?
Thanks guys.....I'm REALLY looking forward to this now.... ::)
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Mad Magazine, eh?
Thanks guys.....
Guys? Don't include me in using that description for what was posted. :- And of course, we have yet to see any real footage from a WB DS, so who knows if all of what was posted on barnabasundead was actually from the real script or not...
(You might also want to keep in mind that, though I respect Gothick's opinion and do agree with him most of the time, he and I agree about very little when it comes to the '91 series. :))
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I know we're all having a great deal of fun speculating what a new DS might be like.....but I'd rather be in the dark about what's ACTUALLY going to show up on my TV some night, than be bored to death already before its debut.
It's just the opposite for me, Rainey. Without all of what's going on, there'd be a good chance that I'd skip the show or at least be very impatient with it. I'm a very slow absorber, the more I know ahead of time the more I'll be able to concentrate on the entertainment value of the show.
The biggest problem for me with the 91 series was that I wasted all my viewing time (what little of it there was - which is my point) comparing it to the original and nit-picking it to death and ultimately giving up on it in disgust. Knowing all about it ahead of time would have given me the time to get over it and just enjoy the show for what is was. And that's what seems to be happening with me now with the pilot. And I hope the trend continues.
I pretty much like to keep my negative thoughts to myself. But I've had some reservations about some of what we've learned so far. I'm glad to be able to deal with them now instead of trying to process them while watching the show.
A question for those in the know - Is a pilot made just for the execs to view to decide if they want to put the series into production or will we get to see the pilot as episode one? I hadn't thought of that until now. I've just taken for granted that we are going to see the pilot.
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A question for those in the know - Is a pilot made just for the execs to view to decide if they want to put the series into production or will we get to see the pilot as episode one? I hadn't thought of that until now. I've just taken for granted that we are going to see the pilot.
That can vary from show to show - some pilot episodes never air while others are shown as the first or at least one of the first episodes. Sometimes the pilots are even completely reshot because either the network or the shows' producer(s) want to change something.
With DS, though, I think it's almost certain that they'll show the pilot (or a reshoot) as the first episode - particularly because it sets up the entire premise of the series.
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I have read somewhere that something incredible like 95% or more of pilots filmed never make to air and are never seen by the public. I think that we will see the pilot in some format as it seems that the WB is really behind the project, especially with Angel possibly being taken off the air. Another issue may be who will direct the tv series if there is one. Hogan will direct the pilot but then he is off somewhere soon to film another theatrical movie. I guess first things first.
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I understand what you mean, dom.....but I really do think having 8 months of conjecture, rumour, suposition and innuendo to ignore is going to be a huge burden when it comes time to sit in front of the tv and watch this thing.
I'm sure I said this before, but for me, the perfect scenario would have been to turn the tv on one night, having no idea what I intended to watch, and lo and behold, there was the first episode of the new DS.
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Regarding the pilot airing;
So it wouldn't be wrong to guess that Angelique will be showing up from day one? Think of all the speculation that can arise from just knowing which charatcers have been cast.
Right now I'm imagining (for my own entertainment) that they'll start with a flashback to Barn's being cursed with vampirism by Angelique. Then soon after showing Willie releasing him.
Just wondering, how long was it before Barn was released and we were introduced to Angelique, in the 91 series? Was there much character developement of the residents of Collinwood before Barn shows up or did we learn about them as the series went along?
I think I'm getting to the point where I might like to give the 91 series another shot. Especially considering it's length. But what I'm really trying to do is second guess the pilot which I know is pointless - even though it is fun and exciting.
Anyone know of a DS chat room that's been set up to discuss the WB pilot?
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I understand what you mean, dom.....but I really do think having 8 months of conjecture, rumour, suposition and innuendo to ignore is going to be a huge burden when it comes time to sit in front of the tv and watch this thing.
Aah, the other side of the coin. It didn't even occur to me! That could be a bummer. Hopefully not (for my sake). :)
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Hi Sweetie,
In the script posted on the "Barnabas Undead" site, Ang [spoiler]pops up shortly after Barn leaves his coffin in episode 1. She has a couple of scenes thereafter where she pops up and makes trouble.[/spoiler] I alas don't recall very much--it really seemed very sophomoric stuff to me.
FWIW, the treatment of the character seemed to owe something to another popular WB series, Charmed. Forgive me if once again I seem "negative." Pollyanna ain't my middle name.
xo la Tuftress
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Was there much character developement of the residents of Collinwood before Barn shows up or did we learn about them as the series went along?
Both, actually - though some of the character development stuff ended up on the cutting room floor when NBC aired the pilot. Thankfully, MPI released the version where it was included. [thumb]
Just wondering, how long was it before Barn was released and we were introduced to Angelique, in the 91 series?
Barnabas was released 22 minutes into the unedited pilot (slightly sooner on NBC). It took 23 minutes before we saw his face (in one of the edited scenes Vicki caught a fleeting glimpse of him from her window - though not even long enough to have recognized him later) - but it took 42 minutes into the unedited pilot before reaching the first scene that we saw his face on NBC (which is when he introduced himself at Collinwood).
Angelique wasn't introduced until Episode #4, and even at that it was briefly. She didn't really come into play until Episode #7.
Anyone know of a DS chat room that's been set up to discuss the WB pilot?
The forum has its own chat room setup. You're the Global Moderator. Need I say more? [wink2]
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I just did my weekly check of the My Entertainment World Web site, and their TV PRODUCTION EVENTS, TV PILOT / TV MINI SERIES chart is reporting that the pilot has a start of production date of March 22nd:
DARK SHADOWS - (TV Pilot - One Hour Drama for WB) - March 22, 2004 - Los Angeles
Has anyone heard anything about this yet?
Guess what - the DS pilot has completely disappeared from this site's TV PRODUCTION EVENTS, TV PILOT / TV MINI SERIES chart. I suppose they finally realized that it didn't start production on the 22nd. ;) (Though what would really be fascinating is if it did, and the reason it's no longer listed is that it has already finished production - but what are the odds of THAT?)
The listing is still unchanged on Variety's site (meaning no production date is listed).
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If I remember the 1991 series accurately, the first appearances of Angelique were as some weirdly floating screeching ghost. I guess the special effects were high-tech, but I just thought the whole thing looked ridiculous and really ruined the character of Angelique for me in that series.
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Here's an excerpt from the latest (March 26) ShadowGram email update--
ShadowGram (SG) announces the following breaking news for Dark Shadows (DS).
--- 2004 DARK SHADOWS PREPARES TO FILM
SG has learned that the highly-anticipated new one-hour DS pilot for the WB Network is expected to begin filming during the coming week at various locations in the Los Angeles area. Shooting has been delayed from the original March 22 start date in order to finalize various production matters.
Six DS scripts also have been ordered for review by the WB. The finished pilot film will be considered for a proposed new weekly series. The WB will make their decision and announce their fall schedule sometime in May.
Among the cast members who have been hired are: ALEC NEWMAN (Barnabas), MARLEY SHELTON (Victoria Winters), IVANA MILICEVIC (Angelique), JESSICA CHASTAIN (Carolyn Stoddard), MARTIN DONOVAN (Roger Collins), MATT CZUCHRY (Willie) and ALEXANDER GOULD (David). Others will be confirmed in the week ahead. (SG Online Update #111 previously announced Marley as the first confirmed cast member.)
Below are selected acting credits for the new DS performers:
* Alec Newman - TV: Frankenstein (Upcoming), Dune, Children of Dune (mini-series), Angel (guest spot). Film: Bright Young Things, The Principles of Lust, Greenwich Mean Time.
* Marley Shelton - TV: Angel Falls, When Friendship Kills, Take Me Home Again. Film:
Plesantville, Nixon, Grand Canyon, Never Been Kissed, The Bachelor.
* Ivana Milicevic - TV: Mind of the Married Man, Charmed, Felicity, Buffy the Vampire
Slayer, Just Shoot Me. Film: Vanilla Sky, Jerry Maguire, Love Stinks, Down with Love, Postmortem.
* Jessica Chastain - TV: E.R. (guest spot). Theater: The Seagull, Trojan Women, Grapes of Wrath, As You Like It, Richard the II, Sir Patient Fancy.
* Martin Donovan - TV: RFK, Traffic, Amy, Masada, and the series Pasadena. Film: Agent Cody Banks, Saved, The Opposite of Sex, Portrait of a Lady.
* Matt Czuchry - Film: Swimming Upstream, Em & Me, Eight Legged Freaks, Mary Jane's Last Dance. TV: Hack, The Practice, Freaks and Geeks.
* Alexander Gould - Film: Finding Nemo (lead), City of Angels, Mexico City.TV: American Dreams, 7th Heaven, Ally McBeal, Malcolm in the Middle, Port Charles.
to read the rest of ShadowGram Update #112
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Martin Donovan should make for a very good Roger. Alas, I don't recognize any of the other names - but once we place some photos to them, that may change.
On to the Web photos search! [wink2]
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Alec Newman (Barnabas) in photo from Children of Dune (http://us.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0287839/Ss/0287839/CHILDOFDUNE_SCIFI_00073.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Newman,%20Alec%20(I))
Hmmm, interesting.
More recent pics are on www.wireimage.com
Enter Alec Newman above Caption, left side, to search.
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Alec Newman (Barnabas) in photo from Children of Dune
Hmmm, interesting.
They're obviously going for a much sexier look than Frid or Cross. But given the target audience, I can't say that's a bad thing.
Here's a shot of "David" at the Finding Nemo premiere that I found/scanned from Entertainment Weekly:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/david_nemo.jpg)
Click here (http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/04.30.98/stage-9817.html) for a photo of Jessica Chastain from the TheatreWorks 1998 production of Romeo and Juliet. Here (http://wbw1.home.mindspring.com/laramie.htm) for some group photos from the Chautauqua Conservatory Theatre's 2001 production of The Laramie Project. And click here (http://www.playbill.com/news/article/85163.html) for an article from Playbill.com about her upcoming appearance in the Off-Broadway play "Where Do We Live".
And you might want to visit the "Official" Alec Newman fan site here (http://www.alec-newman.com/). (Ladies (and select men ;)) may want to be sure they have a drool cup handy.)
What's funny is I was falling behind in my Tru Calling viewing and I just watched the tape of his appearance on that about 5 days ago. Who knew he would soon be Barnabas? :D But from that appearance alone I can tell that he should make a good Barn because he can play tortured quite well, and that's a very necessary skill for the actor who plays Barn. (Be sure to check out this site's extensive screen captures from the episode.)
I have yet to watch his appearance on Angel. But hey, I can only catch up on one show at one time...
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Matt Czuchry (Willie) at the Eight Legged Freaks World Premiere in 2002 (http://www.enzogiobbe.com/celebphoto47.html#47C)
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Theiy're obviously going for a much sexier look than Frid or Cross.
I saw him in "Dune," which I watched mainly out of a sense of duty that this was one of the great epic works of sci-fi ... it seems to me he may be English or Scottish? If so, he should have no trouble giving Barnabas a believably refined, cultured manner of speaking (and hopefully, manner) ... a trait of the new Barnabas I've been greatly concerned about!
Interesting that they went for the blond look. The photo linked here reminded me immediately of Geraint Wyn Davies, the Canadian actor who starred in "Forever Knight." Though maybe I have him on my mind because I just bought and have started watching the first season of "Forever Knight" on DVD. :)
Ben Cross may not have had cover boy looks (thank goodness), but in some of those 1991 scenes he really turned up the heat with his acting. One of the scenes, I forget with which actress/character, was one of the most sensual vampire scenes I've seen.
;D
.............
Oh, the David photo just popped up. Certainly looks perfect for the part! I could never cotton to the David the of the 1991 series, sorry!
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Regarding Vlad's post about 91's Angelique:
This is about the only thing I can remember, without prodding, from the 91 series. And I probably just happened upon it while channel surfing one night. This was probably the proverbial last straw for me. Way over the top, but I was probably and unfairly (if not, subconciously) comparing it to the more subdued style of the original.
I was going to mention in an earlier post that I hoped they would avoid these types of (what I consider) perposterous special effects in the WB version.
MB, I know you liked the 91 series. How did you feel about this particular scene? And if I may ask, did they use a lot of up to date special effects in the series?
With the way special effects have advanced I don't think I'd mind them in the WB version. I wonder if a particular special effects team was hired on, if it would be announced? If it would be deemed "newsworthy"? I'd love to see Barn morph from a Bat into human form. I think good (but not over the top) special effects could really enhance the popularity of the show. I don't know the WB's reputation for spending big bucks and pulling out all the stops for it's shows, so I don't know what would be reasonable to expect.
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So it looks like the two major absences in casting remaining are Julia Hoffman and Elizabeth.
Do you suppose they're trying to get Jean Simmons again?
She has said in the past that she would be interested in doing Dark Shadows again if it ever happened. I believe she was filming an indie film in Hawaii recently.
........
Speaking of 1991 cast members I couldn't cotton to, add the Julia Hoffman, Maggie Evans, and Carolyn Stoddard actresses ...
>:D
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Matt Czuchry (Willie) at the Eight Legged Freaks World Premiere in 2002
OK - I know who he is now.
Seems like blond is the haircolor of choice for this series. ;)
But the big question is: What will Raineypark and Carol think about this casting? ::everyone waits with baited breath::
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Martin Donovan (Roger) at a Premiere event in 2002 (http://us.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/1718/MartinDono_Grani_479287_400.jpg)
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Apparently Alec Newman is "specializing" in this sort of thing. He's about to appear as Victor Frankenstein! It's for TV and is in post-production.
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But the big question is: What will Raineypark and Carol think about this casting? ::everyone waits with baited breath::
LOL
Anticipating Raineypark's question... he's 26 and will turn 27 in May. [wink2]
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But the big question is: What will Raineypark and Carol think about this casting? ::everyone waits with baited breath::
LOL
Anticipating Raineypark's question... he's 26 and will turn 27 in May. [wink2]
Which "he" are you referring to? According to imdb, Alec Newman is 29 and will be 30 in November!
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Raineypark & Carol are major John karlan/Willie fans, Josette. I don't think they've got anything to complain about. But I'm still waiting with baited breath to hear what they think, lol. I think the choice of actor for Willie Loomis is superb. Glad he doesn't look like a thug or freak. I think that Karlan was so likeable as Willie and I think that it is the key to the Willie Loomis character. Hopefully he'll be written that way, this guy looks like he can pull it off.
The choice of actor for Barnabas is exactly what I'd hoped for. And I hope they keep him blond. Barn's the main character and I think they need to think out of the box with him. I think Barn should be attractive and seductive first. His old world manner & charm should be icing on the cake. It makes sense to me that the female (and male) characters should be immediately drawn to him before he even opens his mouth. They should want to believe him where with anyone else, they'd be suspicious.
The kid chosen to play David looks right to me also. I feel good about the choice based on the photo, which is all I have to go on at this point.
I'm looking forward to hearing personal opinions from Forums members who have actually seen performances from the actors chosen to play these characters.
What an incredible month this has been on the Forums! All this breaking news about the pilot and the rare pic's from the original series that have been posted as late. I'm as excited as a three peckered billy goat and as happy as a clam! Thanks to all who have contributed.
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Which "he" are you referring to?
Sorry about the confusion, Josette. I've since clarified my post that we were talking about Matt Czuchry (Willie) (I suppose I assumed (always dangerous) that anyone who knows how "devoted" Rainey and Carol are to John Karlen would know I meant Czuchry. :-[)
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I wish I could find a photo of Czuchry when he was sporting a grunge look in the Jake 2.0 premiere. ;)
But here's a more recent picture than the other one-- Czuchry has a recurring role on Hack this season and this links to a capture that appears on www.davidmorse.org and is from an ep that aired in November:
http://www.davidmorse.org/photo/hack/have/images/HackNine(16).jpg (http://www.davidmorse.org/photo/hack/have/images/HackNine(16).jpg)
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Seems like blond is the haircolor of choice for this series. ;)
Now, now everyone. Haven't we all heard of hair color? Just because one might be one color for now, does not mean we have to be that color tomorrow. Gents dye their hair as well these days.
Here is a fan site for Alex Newman. He was Drogyn in Angel 5.15, Hole in the World. Check out his snaps in the FotoGallery 6.14. There is Angel 1 and Angel 2. In this episode, he sports the medieval knight, brunette, long hair I haven't bathed in a few days look. Kinda sexy don't ya think? Alec Newman (http://www.alec-newman.com/)
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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More Alec Newman or related Web sites to add to the one I've already posted:
FilmForce: 10 Questions: Alec Newman (http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/388/388900p1.html?fromint=1)
Alec Newman - TV Tome (http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/PersonDetail/personid-102761)
Starpages - Alec Newman (http://www.starpages.net/A/L/Alec_Newman/1033060002-0.html)
CelebMatch.com: Match yourself with Alec Newman (http://www.celebmatch.com/birthdayform_7707_Alec_Newman.php)
(Too weird for words - but it's nice to know that I'm a 99% intellectual match with him. [lghy])
counterculture | The Principles Of Lust [ Movie review ] :: Alec Newman (http://www.counterculture.co.uk/movie-review/the-principles-of-lust.html)
Long Time Dead - Alec Newman (http://www.cinemas-online.co.uk/php-bin/frameme.php?page=/films/ltd.fhtml)
Bright Young Things - Alec Newman (http://www.cinemas-online.co.uk/php-bin/frameme.php?page=/films/byt.fhtml)
CNN - Career - Alec Newman (http://www.cnn.com/interactive/career/0011/dune.side2/content.html)
Great Scott! Alec Newman (http://alecsprincess.proboards10.com/)
(a message board devoted to Newman - though not particularly active)
Not to mention The Official Alec Newman Club on Yahoo
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I'd say this Willie is an improvement over the '91 Willie. Wonder if he'll have a Brooklyn accent?[coolb]
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Some interesting choices - I'm really excited about Martin Donovan, who I think is a real coup for the production. And I think having Roger played by an actor older than Barnabas will bring an interesting dynamic to their relationship.
Alec Newman I'm intrigued by. He's a lot more "pretty" than I was expecting, but he has an intensity that should suit the role. He certainly seems far more facially expressive than Ben Cross, so a massive improvement in that respect.
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Some interesting choices - I'm really excited about Martin Donovan, who I think is a real coup for the production. And I think having Roger played by an actor older than Barnabas will bring an interesting dynamic to their relationship.
Alec Newman I'm intrigued by. He's a lot more "pretty" than I was expecting, but he has an intensity that should suit the role. He certainly seems far more facially expressive than Ben Cross, so a massive improvement in that respect.
I agree with you Stuart. I also think that Alec Newman has a Brad Pitt type of edge about him. I am happy with the latest castings. Now its getting real exciting. Just wondering which mansion they have selected as Collinwood. I hope its not Greystone again.
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He was Drogyn in Angel 5.15, Hole in the World. Check out his snaps in the FotoGallery 6.14. There is Angel 1 and Angel 2. In this episode, he sports the medieval knight, brunette, long hair I haven't bathed in a few days look. Kinda sexy don't ya think? (URL)[/size][/color][/FONT]
Thanks for that, victoriawinters. It's the last ep of Angel that I've seen (and I won't even ask MB which is the last one he saw ;)). I liked the character-- and as I recall, he didn't like to be asked questions; I mean he REALLY didn't like it! And he wanted to kill Spike (get in line). Anyway, I loved his medieval knight goth look. But apparently not everyone did, because Strega, whose reviews of Angel for www.televisionwithoutpity.com are loads of fun and I'm grateful to Luciaphil for turning me on to the place, called Alec Newman's character "a poor man's Brad Dourif." Ouch!!
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I know there should be enough links posted for Alec Newman, but I do wish to mention that the link Victoria Winters posted doesn't work (at least not in my browser) ... all the others I've tried so far have worked.
I did see on imdb that he's from Scotland and -- O.T. -- Geraint Wyn-Davies is originally from Wales but his family moved to Canada ... wonder what's with all the "Celtic" vampires ... I admit I generally think of vampires as dark and brooding, but it's best not to stereotype people ... :D
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Never mind, now it worked! sorry ...
???
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sorry ...
No apology needed.
:)
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Martin Donovan (Roger) at a Premiere event in 2002
Okay. I can picture him as Roger. Appears to be over 25 at least >:D
I guess only blondes need apply for jobs in the new series. ::)
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Just wondering which mansion they have selected as Collinwood. I hope its not Greystone again.
I hear ya on that one! Please, please let it have a New England feel for it. It would be hard to stomach a palm tree blowing in the breeze. ;D
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I can picture him as Roger. Appears to be over 25 at least
Trust me - according to the IMDb, he's going to turn 47 on August 19, and that's definitely over 25 - I know - I'm 47. ;)
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Please, please let it have a New England feel for it.
Well, as I said in the Dream Collinwood thread, I'm hoping for the house-moved-from-England backstory that they used in the '91 series. But time will tell...
At any rate, we may not hear about any of the locations until after the pilot completes its production, lest curious west coast fans (and you all know who you are [wave]) show up and disrupt shooting. ;)
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Regarding Vlad's post about 91's Angelique:
This is about the only thing I can remember, without prodding, from the 91 series. And I probably just happened upon it while channel surfing one night. This was probably the proverbial last straw for me. Way over the top, but I was probably and unfairly (if not, subconciously) comparing it to the more subdued style of the original.
I was going to mention in an earlier post that I hoped they would avoid these types of (what I consider) perposterous special effects in the WB version.
MB, I know you liked the 91 series. How did you feel about this particular scene?
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/ang_fire_91.jpg)
I honestly thought it was used quite effectively. It was far more interesting than simply having Angelique's head appear in the flames, as was the case when she was summoned to 1897 by Quentin and Evan. (Though, that being said, that effect was quite good for its day.)
And if I may ask, did they use a lot of up to date special effects in the series?
Not really. And mostly everything involved Angelique and was a reworking of the same effect.
There was that scene in Episode #4. One spectacular scene in Episode #6 in which Angelique's ghost appeared to Barnabas, Julia, Willie and Sarah at the Old House:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/ang_oh_91_1.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/ang_oh_91_2.jpg)
In Episode #9 when the "bat" attacked Barnabas in 1790 (which I thought was a brilliant reworking of the way it occurred in the original) and Ang's ghost taunted him:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/bat_91.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/ang_bat_91.jpg)
And in Episode #10 when Ang's ghost explained the curse:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/ang_curse_91.jpg)
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Thanks so much for posting the links to pictures of the new cast. I watch only a little television and none of them seemed familiar.
Vlad, I thought the new Barnabas reminded me of the actor on Forever Night, too. This young man seems very handsome and I am looking forward to seeing him. However, the cast seems so young even the ones that are in there forties look young. I hope they hire a character actor to play Prof. Stokes. You know, just to add some realism because in real life not everyone is buff and handsome.
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Thanks for the special effects captures, MB. It's the "blue-ish" one I remember. Pretty sure it was when they were on the staircase. Still seems a bit over the top to me, but until I see it in context, I really shouldn't be judging it.
I must admit that the first capture is pretty awesome.
Maybe I can convince an "old friend" who I lent a bunch of my tapes to a few years ago to return the favor by lending me his 91 series tapes. Though goodness knows when I'd have the time to watch them. I wonder if he bought the DVDs? Heheheh.
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I loved the Angie's ghost effect - it still looks perfectly respectable after 13 years, which isn't bad going... She's meant to be a terrifying apparition, it's a great image and a wonderful florid set piece.
DS frequently isn't a subtle show - the characters and stories are painted in big, broad strokes and I thought it fitted in perfectly.
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I loved the Angie's ghost effect - it still looks perfectly respectable after 13 years, which isn't bad going... She's meant to be a terrifying apparition, it's a great image and a wonderful florid set piece.
DS frequently isn't a subtle show - the characters and stories are painted in big, broad strokes and I thought it fitted in perfectly.
Why do these remind me of the dream sequence number from "Fiddler on the Roof"? (especially Cap#5?)
"What woman is this, her righteous anger shaken,
Could it be---? Sure! Why not? Who could be mistaken?
It's a spirit who's come back from the afterlife,
It's Barnabas's 'darling' departed wife,
Fruma Angelique...."
L.
(Well, at least I didn't make the Peter Pan "I can fly" comparison....)
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I wish I could find a photo of Czuchry when he was sporting a grunge look in the Jake 2.0 premiere. ;)
I did a bit of hunting through some magazines and, unfortunately, this is the best I could come up with on that. The original photo (from Entertainment Weekly) is small, so I tried to blow it up a bit:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/Matt_Jake2.0.jpg)
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Darn it! I watched Jake while it was on, but I don't remember much about that character, just that he existed!
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I absolutely loved Angelique's emergence from the fire in the 91 DS. It was actually quite frightening, made all the more intense by Willie's panicked reaction to it -- I think it was the first moment in the show where I decided Jim Fyfe wasn't so bad after all. ;)
--Mark
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I did a bit of hunting through some magazines and, unfortunately, this is the best I could come up with on that. The original photo (from Entertainment Weekly) is small, so I tried to blow it up a bit:
MB, you are a doll!
Josette, he was Jake's roommate in the premiere ep-- sort of a horney slacker IT guy. When you think about it, it's an unusual type-- I mean the slacker IT part.
His performance is what allows me to picture him as Willie in my mind (the horney slacker part, that is ;)).
Rambling now. :-X
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since i've been ill and don't much feel like going through all these posts
Are they retelling the story over again? don't think that'll work for a 3rd time but just MHO!
jennifer
but sure as hell bets the cr*p on tv today!
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Yes, Midnite, I looked it up and discovered which character he was. But, even in the beginning it wasn't that big a part. I think he turned up a bit in a couple of other episodes. But while I recall that such a character existed on the show, I have no recollection of what he was like!! It's a shame we couldn't have been aware of this back then or that it would have done well enough for them to repeat it now. (There are a few unaired episodes which, I assume, will remain unaired.)
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According to www.tvtome.com under another WB pilot named Jack and Bobby, it reflects that on Tuesday, May 18, 2004, at the Sheraton Auditorium in New York City, the WB will unveil its fall lineup to advertisers. Living in New York, perhaps I should go there that day and bring along Tony Soprano just in case. lol
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perhaps I should go there that day and bring along Tony Soprano just in case. lol
Sounds like a plan to me, jimbo. [wink2]
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Sounds like a plan to me, jimbo. [wink2]
Glad to help MB. Everyone is invited. Always good to have backup. lol
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Trust me - according to the IMDb, he's going to turn 47 on August 19, and that's definitely over 25 - I know - I'm 47. ;)
where you born in 56 or 57?
jennifer(a 56 baby myself) :-X
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Tsk, tsk, tsk - it seems as if Variety is a bit behind the times:
Posted: Mon., Mar. 29, 2004, 9:19pm PT
Rispoli, Kind set for pilots
Castings continue as season revs up
By MICHAEL SCHNEIDER
"The Sopranos" alum Michael Rispoli is close to joining the cast of the ABC laffer pilot "The Furst Family," while Richard Kind ("Spin City") will star in CBS' untitled Aisha Tyler laffer, and the WB has added several new names to its "Dark Shadows" remake.
...
As for "Dark Shadows," Martin Donovan, who most recently starred in USA's adaptation of the miniseries "Traffic," is onboard as Roger Collins.
Donovan's feature credits include "Insomnia" and "The Opposite of Sex." On TV, he starred in Fox's "Pasadena" and FX's "RFK."
Also joining the "Dark Shadows" cast are Jessica Chastain ("ER") as Carolyn Stoddard, Matt Czuchry ("Jake 2.0") as Willie Loomis and Alexander Gould ("Finding Nemo") as David Collins.
Frog and Warner Bros. TV execs are still looking for an actor to cast in the lead role of Barnabas Collins. Project, from Mark Verheiden, John Wells and Dan Curtis is based on the classic '60s gothic soap opera about vampires.[/b]
Date in print: Tue., Mar. 30, 2004, Los Angeles
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Jimbo..
Good plan--unfortunately there's no way on heaven or on earth that the pilot will be finished, including editing in time for that date...Perhaps they'll show an assembly of a finished scene...
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Good plan--unfortunately there's no way on heaven or on earth that the pilot will be finished, including editing in time for that date...Perhaps they'll show an assembly of a finished scene...
Thanks for the information. I was just wondering, from a technical view, what do you think will then be missing from the unfinished pilot? (Hope its not a stupid question) Will the intro with the waves crashing against the rocks, the eerie classic soundtrack and other special effects ie...thunder,etc... all be missing? This may force the WB's executives to use their imagination a bit more when they look at the unfinished product.
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A title sequence wouldn't be shot until production was well underway - for instance, the titles for 1991 series weren't prepared until the entire shoot had wrapped.
For example, the version of the 1991 pilot that NBC saw had no opening or closing titles (it just opens with the "Dark Shadows" logo on black), and the music was a mixture of synthesised "temp" tracks and recycled original series music cues.
I'd assume that in this instance they'd either assemble a couple of key scenes with a music track, or put together something akin to an extended trailer from what's available.
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Now, thanks to MB's Video clips, we all know exactly what they told the casting director regarding the search for the new Barnabas Collins: "Find us Geraint Wyn Davies younger brother."
Been there, done that: 1
Thinking outside the box: 0
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who did Jessica play on ER?
jennifer
i also hate to add that i don't see this working if they are going with the same story? Ditto Rainey
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who did Jessica play on ER?
jennifer,
I only read a synopsis, but if you've seen the ep then please let us know your thoughts about her. Her character (named Dahlia) sought help for her father because he pulled out his PIC line; he was septic and unable to communicate. She refused to leave him, so the staff argued in front of her (sigh) because one of them did a cutdown to replace the line, and later they express concern that the daughter doesn't understand that her father won't recover. There's no DNR and she wants everything possible done for him, so they resuscitate him at one point and it leaves the father even less responsive. When the staff approach Jessica's character about long-term care, she suddenly opens up (sigh again) and reveals...
Here there be episode spoilers--
[spoiler]that her father sexually abused her starting when she was in the 5th grade and it didn't stop until she was 17 when he had the accident that left him the way he is, and she asks the staff if they think people get what they deserve. According to the reviewer, she was quite good here, subtly showing bitterness mixed with a daughter's affection. Brrr![/spoiler]
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This ER episode was on a week or two ago. She was perfect in that role - did a superior job. Had I known she would be our next Carolyn I would have paid special attention to her. Hopefully someone (Jenn?) saw this recently broadcast episode and can give us a more precise review. The way the role was written didn't make for a good comparison to Nancy Barrett's "Carloyn" (which wouldn't be fair anyway), but the girl can act and that's the biggest plus, IMO.
Thanks, Midnite, for researching this. You always go above and beyond the call of duty, and it is appreciated. At least now I can be comfortable with the casting of Chastain instead of clueless.
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Now, thanks to MB's Video clips, we all know exactly what they told the casting director regarding the search for the new Barnabas Collins: "Find us Geraint Wyn Davies younger brother."
Been there, done that: 1
Thinking outside the box: 0
And, of course, the fact that he's a good actor couldn't possibly have played into it...
:-
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Good plan--unfortunately there's no way on heaven or on earth that the pilot will be finished, including editing in time for that date...Perhaps they'll show an assembly of a finished scene...
I'm confused (not an unusual state for me! ;)), I hope this isn't too dumb of a question (uh oh!), but if the pilot won't be finished by that date, will there be enough there for the WB to decide whether they want to pick it up or not? At least in time for the fall season? Or will they have to skip it or delay their decision until midseason?
???Mary
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Considering the basis on which many choices are made in the tv and movie industries......I'm sorry to say I doubt they would have hired him if he hadn't had "the look" they were looking for....no matter how talented he is. Never having seen him in anything, I'll take it on faith that he's VERY talented......but when was that ever enough?
Do YOU think they would have hired someone who looked like a young Jonathan Frid for this role? I doubt it.
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Do YOU think they would have hired someone who looked like a young Jonathan Frid for this role? I doubt it.
I'd have to check, but Frid might have actually been a good looking young man (not that he was by any means ugly when he was on DS - but I suppose one could say that he wasn't the conventional idea of handsome).
The thing I come away with from the casting choices that have been made is that, with few exceptions (Alec Newman not being one of them), these new actors have a background in live theater - and truthfully, after having read the article about the WB DS casting director to which I posted a link to in the topic "Out of the 'Shadows'" on this board, I can't say that surprises me in the least. One of the best things about the actors in the original cast was that many also had theater backgrounds - that's one of things that often made their work so strong - and I take it as a good sign that this new cast has similar backgrounds. Yes, they're also attractive people. But, frankly, we shouldn't exactly hold that against them...
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I take it as a good sign that this new cast has similar backgrounds.
Ah.... a theatre background being so much more......what, exactly?
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Ah.... a theatre background being so much more......what, exactly?
OK - I give up. [surrend] It's quite clear you're not going to see my point...
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I'm sure there will be enough time to have execs to view and approve the pilot for a series, but since they are in on the decisions that have bumped shooting several weeks back, they must have agreed to a later screening date for it as well. It's going to shoot for nearly 4 weeks, and it will still need to be edited, and have the special visual effects done. I think what the network will see will be somewhere between a rough and fine cut...enough to get an idea...but work will still continue on it in the weeks after its submitted...
Unless they hate the pilot and cancel everything.
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Not if you're not going to explain it to me.
I know what importance I attach to work and training in the theatre. I was hoping you would expand upon why you think it is significant.
But never mind.
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Old news - but still nice to see (particularly when our guy rates the photo ;)):
Smith, Donovan, Rispoli Find Homes in Pilots (http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|87198|1|,00.html)
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Do YOU think they would have hired someone who looked like a young Jonathan Frid for this role? I doubt it.
Turning that on their head, why should they? The role needs a talented, versatile actor, which you won't get by narrowing your search to a lookalike or a mimic. What's the point? It might be a fair copy, but it will always be a copy. Barnabas Collins is a broader character than simply Jonathan Frid's contribution, and there's no reason to assume that Alec Newman can't make the role his own.
Another thing I'd point out is that it's very easy for us to mutter darkly about casting choices, but we're not the ones making decisions that millions of dollars are riding on. Jonathan's casting versus casting Barnabas today is a totally different ballgame.
In 1967, they were looking for a short-term guest for a daytime soap - today casting Barnabas entails finding the lead actor for a key primetime drama.
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I'm sure there will be enough time to have execs to view and approve the pilot for a series, but since they are in on the decisions that have bumped shooting several weeks back, they must have agreed to a later screening date for it as well. It's going to shoot for nearly 4 weeks, and it will still need to be edited, and have the special visual effects done. I think what the network will see will be somewhere between a rough and fine cut...enough to get an idea...but work will still continue on it in the weeks after its submitted...
Unless they hate the pilot and cancel everything.
Eek!!! Nnnnnnnoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! [eek]
Thanks for answering my question and providing all this info, Darren!!
Mary
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Well, I must say this is interesting:
Posted: Tue., Mar. 30, 2004, 5:36pm PT
Warners' Teuton pic pact
Tube deal includes upcoming 'Batman,' 'Potter' releases
By ED MEZA, ELIZABETH GUIDER
HOLLYWOOD -- In a sure sign that the German TV market is starting to percolate again, Herbert Kloiber's Tele Munchen will plunk down as much as $220 million over two years for upcoming Warner Bros. movies as well as TV series, animation and library product.
Deal encompasses the Hollywood studio's feature film slates for 2004 and 2005, which include high-profile projects like "Troy," "Cat Woman," "Batman," "Scooby-Doo 2," "Ocean's Twelve" and "The Polar Express."
Package also includes several of the studio's ongoing movie franchises like "Harry Potter" 2 and 3 as well as New Line's second and third installments of "Lord of the Rings."
"I wouldn't say that we're returning to the irrational exuberance of the late '90s," said Warner Bros. Intl. TV prexy Jeffrey Schlesinger, referring to the period when prices for Hollywood product went through the roof abroad.
"But," he added, "the deal with Kloiber is indicative of renewed competition in the German market -- and the fact that we have one of the best packages we've had in years."
Deal comes as the media industry in Germany puts the Kirch Media and Neuer Markt debacles behind it, and the Teutonic TV advertising market shows new signs of a pulse.
Lotsa series, too
Kloiber has also contracted to take upcoming series produced by Warners for network primetime (seasons 2004-05 and 2005-06), including the "Friends" spinoff "Joey" and the latest John Wells drama, "Dark Shadows."
Warners is currently the prime supplier to the six U.S. networks and typically fields 30 potential pilots each May at the upfronts, with between 10 and 15 newcomers likely making it onto the skeds.
Deal came to light Tuesday at the Mip TV trade show in Cannes, though rumors that Warners was shopping its latest content to the two or three potential station program buyers in Germany surfaced weeks ago in Los Angeles. (In recent years, Warners has put together smaller packages for all the key broadcast players in that territory.)
The final pricetag Kloiber pays depends on certain guaranteed film grosses and on agreed performance criteria for the TV series.
Some of the Warner product could be earmarked for RTL 2, a commercial station in which Kloiber holds a 30% stake, while other product could serve to boost the profile of his wholly owned Tele Funf station, which up until now has been an also-ran.
But Kloiber is also a middleman and can sublicense to whatever Teutonic stations want to step up for whatever product. That likely means powerhouse commercial station RTL 1 or its rival ProSiebenSat1 or, for some product, pubcasters ARD or ZDF.
If one assumes 25 movies a year from Warners, just five a year from New Line and no other product in the deal, that would mean that WBIT would top out at $3.5 million a title on average, a substantial increase on the prices for movies being paid in that territory of late. Adding in the TV series and the library material brings that average down naturally to roughly between $2 million and $2.5 million a title, still a hefty sum for the Hollywood supplier.
The studio has been on a good run of late, coming in second behind Disney at the international box office in 2003, and scoring big-time with its franchises "Rings," "Potter" and "Matrix."
"If the studio can do something similar this year and next with 'Cat Woman,' 'Batman' and the like, then Kloiber may end up looking pretty savvy," said one international TV veteran on the Croisette.
...[/b]
Date in print: Wed., Mar. 31, 2004, Los Angeles
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Well, maybe I'm naive, but this latest information posted by MB certainly gives me the hope that the WB is quite serious about the new Dark Shadows...especially if they're already marketing the series to the European market.
The casting choices sound damned interesting. And the fact that most of these folks have strong theatre backgrounds make me think they're looking for actors who will really invest in the parts they're playing, committing to the time-honored gothic tradition, as they did on the original series.
While I'm sure that the new Dark Shadows will be totally different, still can't help dreaming that they'll really pull off something that resonates with dark doings and dark magicks. Atmosphere!
I can dream, can't I?
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if you've seen the ep then please let us know your thoughts about her.
i did see this episode and thought she was quite good even though the storyline was not up there in my favorites [spoiler]i know she was in denial but i would have let the old buzzard go ICK
we,ve had some much abuse in the news with our church scandal can't take anymore even fiction[/spoiler]
i'll be interesting to see them all in these old roles but it'll be hard ,as in any remake of a much loved show ,to see new faces try and replace old ones. i did not enjoy 1991 for that reason even though there were some fine actors in it! trying to keep an open mind and as there isbn't too much on tv i like anymore. i know they are popular but reality BITES!
jennifer
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Not sure if this has come up elsewhere in this thread. (It's 15 pages long, people!) Reuters carried a story yesterday about pilot casting mentioning actors we've already heard about, but they went on to describe some of the character relationships and plot developments:
[spoiler]Gould and Donovan will play the family's sons. Chastain will play a member of the Stoddard family who gets bitten by a vampire.[/spoiler]
I use the spoiler feature here with tongue firmly in cheek.
The full text of the article is here. (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=televisionNews&storyID=4696646§ion=news)
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How amusing, Criseyde!
Sounds as if those six episodes (or however many have been commissioned) will be heavily recycling old storylines from the original series.
Just out of curiosity, did the Reuters story carry anything about storylines for Julia and Liz? (One of my peeves about the 1991 effort was that Liz had NO storylines AT ALL.)
Steve
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It's going to shoot for nearly 4 weeks
I find that prospect fascinating - mostly because that's basically the same length of time the two hour '91 pilot took to shoot, yet the WB pilot is only one hour. I was expecting it might take 7 shooting days, which is the norm for most hour dramas, or possibly up to 10. I'm hugely curious to learn why the shoot will take so long. But I'm also willing to wait until the time is right to reveal those details. ;)
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The role needs a talented, versatile actor, which you won't get by narrowing your search to a lookalike or a mimic. What's the point? It might be a fair copy, but it will always be a copy. Barnabas Collins is a broader character than simply Jonathan Frid's contribution, and there's no reason to assume that Alec Newman can't make the role his own.
Earlier today I was looking over some of the posts on the Whedonesque.com Web site, where all things Joss Whedon related (Buffy, Angel, Firefly, etc.) are discussed, and it's really interesting how different groups of people can react to the same news completely differently. For example, many Angel fans are absolutely convinced that Alec Newman has been cast as Barnabas because of his small guest role on that series' February 25th episode. And frankly they're pissed. They see it as yet another indication that the WB DS has always been intended to "replace" Angel ( :- ) and it's made many of them even more determined to never sample DS, even though many of them readily admit to being fans of Newman from his work in Sci-Fi's Dune and Children Of Dune miniseries.
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Just out of curiosity, did the Reuters story carry anything about storylines for Julia and Liz? (One of my peeves about the 1991 effort was that Liz had NO storylines AT ALL.)
Not a peep about Julia or Liz. Sorry. :(
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I find that prospect fascinating - mostly because that's basically the same length of time the two hour '91 pilot took to shoot, yet the WB pilot is only one hour. I was expecting it might take 7 shooting days, which is the norm for most hour dramas, or possibly up to 10. I'm hugely curious to learn why the shoot will take so long. But I'm also willing to wait until the time is right to reveal those details. ;)
MB Just curious as to why you would wait at the right time to reveal details surrounding the length of the pilot's shooting. We all here are not getting any younger. lol I can see you holding back information concerning the location of the filming. Perhaps they are shooting several episodes in addition to the pilot (just wishful thinking).
BTW Thanks for posting that highly revealing article from Variety regarding Kloiber's purchase of WB programs and films. I am not a subscriber to Variety so I do truly appreciate that posting.
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They're only shooting the pilot, no additional episodes. None have been written yet, anyway.
Techically the shoot is 15 days, but I'm estimating will probably go an extra day or two.
7 days is the norm for a 1hr drama, but that's an established drama with locations and sets that are already built, and a group honed to a routine...This is a brand new from scratch project, with sets that need to be built and dressed and several location changes.
The Angel fans are way off-base with Alec Newman...he had to audition for the role just like the other prospective actors and there was no favoritism in the choice...The exec producers make casting choices and then submit them to WB for approval, not the other way around...
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Techically the shoot is 15 days, but I'm estimating will probably go an extra day or two.
Still - the '91 pilot took 18 days to shoot with what would probably come close to twice the material. I take the 15 day shooting schedule for the WB DS pilot as a very good sign because, obviously, it's not being hurried along.
The Angel fans are way off-base with Alec Newman...he had to audition for the role just like the other prospective actors and there was no favoritism in the choice...The exec producers make casting choices and then submit them to WB for approval, not the other way around...
We know that - but I seriously doubt that if Newman himself were to post the truth for them, they would even believe him. They're that adamant that there's some sort of conspiracy going on at the WB. :- But then, cancellation of ones favorite show can sometimes bring about irrational thinking...
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I see according to the barnabasundead site that shooting starts tomorrow -- yeah, baby, yeah!! [hello]
(But no Julia, no Elizabeth? Eek!)
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If true, how wild is it that the pilot should begin shooting on the same date (April 2nd) that the original DS aired its last episode on ABC? I love that.
As for Julia, Liz and Joe - they may have been cast and it simply hasn't been announced yet (Alec Newman's casting as Barn has yet to be reported in Variety, for instance) - or they may simply shoot around them until the roles are filled.
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If true, how wild is it that the pilot should begin shooting on the same date (April 2nd) that the original DS aired its last episode on ABC? I love that.
No such thing as a coincidence ... ? ...
As for Julia, Liz and Joe - they may have been cast and it simply hasn't been announced yet (Alec Newman's casting as Barn has yet to be reported in Variety, for instance) - or they may simply shoot around them until the roles are filled.
I'm still holding out for Jean Simmons, despite the fact that they gave her almost nothing to do in the 1991 series (then HODS gave Joan Bennett nothing to do, either). Of course the "targeted audience" isn't likely to have any idea who Jean Simmons is ...
But then, we who saw the original series in the 60s - 70s ... probably didn't know who Joan Bennett was, either!
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As for Julia, Liz and Joe - they may have been cast and it simply hasn't been announced yet (Alec Newman's casting as Barn has yet to be reported in Variety, for instance) - or they may simply shoot around them until the roles are filled.
They may be making some changes in the family and not just repeating the same story. That one article mentioned the other day indicated that Roger and David would be sons of the family. That seems to indicate that they'll be brothers instead of father and son!!
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Roger and David would be sons of the family. That seems to indicate that they'll be brothers instead of father and son!!
Referring to someone as the "family's sons" is just an expression that means male members of a family. :) In the same way, Liz and Carolyn (and possibly Vicki) would be the "family's daughters."
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If true, how wild is it that the pilot should begin shooting on the same date (April 2nd) that the original DS aired its last episode on ABC? I love that.
As for Julia, Liz and Joe - they may have been cast and it simply hasn't been announced yet (Alec Newman's casting as Barn has yet to be reported in Variety, for instance) - or they may simply shoot around them until the roles are filled.
How cool about the date, MB!
Hope you're right about the casting -- that would be a relief! (JMHO, but I think Jane Seymour would make a great Elizabeth!) (Hope no one thinks I'm committing blasphemy -- LOL!)
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(JMHO, but I think Jane Seymour would make a great Elizabeth!) (Hope no one thinks I'm committing blasphemy -- LOL!)
I love Jane Seymour (have since the first moment I laid eyes on her in Somewhere in Time (I completely identified with Christopher Reeves' character ;))). She could make a great Liz. But is she old enough to play Martin Donovan's older sister (presuming Liz is older)?
(Though...a younger sister holding the purse strings and controlling the family could make for some great sibling conflict.)
I really liked AllMyShadows' idea of Frances Fisher as Julia. But now that Alec Newman has been cast as Barn, at 51, she's probably too old to play opposite him. :( But I'm sure they'll come up with someone equally as interesting for the role.
As for Joe, I haven't got a clue who might fit the bill...
[spoiler]Wonder if he'll be killed off as quickly as he was in the '91 series - and then possibly the actor will be recast as a Chris Jennings type, as was the plan with Michael T. Weiss?[/spoiler]
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Sorry guys, it ain't Jane Seymour ;)
Blair Brown is Elizabeth Collins Stoddard - info and pics at www.collinwood.net
I think she's a great choice :)
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An extremely excellent choice, Stuart! [thumb]
Funny, thanks to MsCriseyde's link from an earlier post in this topic, I checked Reuters just over an hour ago and the news of her casting hadn't been posted. But everyone can check it out here (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=4732684)
I must say I'm getting very miffed at Variety. Not only haven't they reported Alec Newman's casting, but all of the people mentioned in this Reuters item were reported in Variety this evening with the exception of Blair Brown. Grrr... (Though Reuters has never mentioned Alec Newman either. >:()
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It's kinda strange... when that casting started trickling out I was a little blase about it, but now that filming is upon us and everything, I'm sooooooooo excited about the whole thing. Seriously, when I heard today's news, I was grinning from ear to ear.
Suddenly the project really seems to have so much going for it - it's shaping up to be such an exciting time :)
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I love Jane Seymour (have since the first moment I laid eyes on her in Somewhere in Time (I completely identified with Christopher Reeves' character ;))). She could make a great Liz. But is she old enough to play Martin Donovan's older sister (presuming Liz is older)?
(Though...a younger sister holding the purse strings and controlling the family could make for some great sibling conflict.)
I really liked AllMyShadows' idea of Frances Fisher as Julia. But now that Alec Newman has been cast as Barn, at 51 she's probably too old to play opposite him. :( But I'm sure they'll come up with someone equally as interesting for the role.
As for Joe, I haven't got a clue who might fit the bill...
[spoiler]Wonder if he'll be killed off as quickly as he was in the '91 series - and then possibly the actor will be recast as a Chris Jennings type, as was the plan with Michael T. Weiss?[/spoiler]
Thank you for agreeing with me about Jane Seymour! I thought she was old enough since I knew she was already in her early 40's when she had her twins several years ago, but I checked her age on the IMDB to make sure, and according to her birthdate listed there, February 15, 1951, she is indeed old enough at 53! Cool! (Although rather crushing to think of her being in her 50's now -- ack!! I always wanted to be her. Sigh. LOL!)
Frances Fisher would be a perfect Julia! (Well, unless someone's found a way to clone Grayson Hall! LOL!) Yeah, too bad she's a little too old for Alec Newman, though.
The only actor who comes to mind for me right now for Joe (your spoiler too!) is Brian Presley who used to be Jack on "Port Charles." Although that name won't mean much to most people, probably, since PC had such low ratings, unfortunately. But then, I'd never heard of any of the actors they've already cast so far before either! LOL!
Mary
(extremely crushed to be in my 40's now -- LOL!)
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Here are some links for those of you unfamiliar with Blair Brown:
Canadians.ca - Blair Brown (http://www.canadians.ca/more/profiles/b/b_blair_brown.htm)
Interview With Blair Brown (http://www.theatrescene.net/ts%5Carticles.nsf/0/5F4580B46DF021FF85256CBA0019F2EF?OpenDocument)
(Love how this one starts: "Once again Tony Award-winning actor Blair Brown finds herself communicating with the spirit world.")
Blair Brown Picture Page (http://www.hard-to-find-actresses.com/blair.html)
(My, my, Liz - check out those R rated pics! (age verification required))
Blair Brown - TV Tome (http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/PersonDetail/personid-14617)
(Oh, so boring in comparison! [lghy])
Books on tape narrated by Blair Brown (http://www.addall.com/author/3074421-1)
Celebrities @ Hollywood.com-Featuring Blair Brown (http://www.hollywood.com/celebs/detail/celeb/195786)
CABARET welcomes Blair Brown... (http://www.broadwayworld.com/read.cfm?prid=7310)
Blair Brown needs to watch more TV (http://www.canoe.ca/TelevisionShowsF/feds.html)
(Contains possibly the best line of all: "She can walk on a set, do nothing and take control.")
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Blair Brown?! Well, uh, yeah, she is a very good choice actually, but I just wasted, like, a half-hour carefully wording my Jane Seymour post! LOL!
Mary
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I checked her age on the IMDB to make sure, and according to her birthdate listed there, February 15, 1951, she is indeed old enough at 53!
Really? I had no idea.
The only actor who comes to mind for me right now for Joe (your spoiler too!) is Brian Presley who used to be Jack on "Port Charles." Although that name won't mean much to most people, probably, since PC had such low ratings
I know who he is (I watched PC). He's an excellent young actor - and has the two Daytime Emmy noms to prove it (don't remember if he ever won one, though).
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A Tony Award winning actress?
As I said from the start, that casting director is no slouch.
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Well, Blair Brown certainly should be on the ball on this one...she's had experience with vampires before!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289697/combined
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As I said from the start, that casting director is no slouch.
I was saying something very similar just the other day with regard to Alec Newman's casting. ;) And the more news we get of the casting, the more impressed I am...
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Blair Brown is an excellent choice to portray Elizabeth Collins Stoddard. This was actually the one part that I was most concerned about. They've selected a winner. Three great actresses, Joan Bennett, Jean Simmons and now Blair Brown.
Gerard
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Blair Brown?! Well, uh, yeah, she is a very good choice actually, but I just wasted, like, a half-hour carefully wording my Jane Seymour post! LOL!
I would never say any of us {wastes} our posts here. lol
Thanks for that post anyway. I see you gave it a great deal of thought and time. Thanks.
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I must say I'm getting very miffed at Variety. Not only haven't they reported Alec Newman's casting, but all of the people mentioned in this Reuters item were reported in Variety this evening with the exception of Blair Brown. Grrr... (Though Reuters has never mentioned Alec Newman either. >:()
It's endlessly fascinating (well, to me, anyway) what the news services choose to report regarding the WB DS casting. For instance, the Sci-Fi news wire reported Marley Shelton's casting as Vicki and hasn't mentioned anything until today's item about Blair Brown. OK, yes, Vicki and Liz are important characters, and some of the actors who've been cast aren't household names. BUT, one might assume that they would have reported Alec Newman's casting as Barn, well, because Barn is possibly the most important DS role (at least in the eyes of most media types), and, well, Alec Newman starred in two of Sci-Fi's own miniseries (Dune & Children Of Dune). But no...
MB (who is possibly easily captivated by otherwise useless details ;))
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Blair Brown as Liz? Okay, now I am officially excited! Really hoping this doesn't fall through...
Given the names attached to this project, who else is thinking it's almost for sure that the new Dark Shadows will make in on the air this fall?
BTW, is it definite that the Dr. Julia Hoffman character will appear on the new show? Sorry if I missed confirmation elsewhere on the forums of this.
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It's endlessly fascinating (well, to me, anyway) what the news services choose to report regarding the WB DS casting.
Yes this DS casting is getting very frustrating. Take Shadowgram for example. The electronic newsletter had/has not initially announced Milicevic and now Brown's casting news.(At least I have not received it as of this writing) Is Dan Curtis Productions no longer providing breaking news to Shadowgram on a regular basis? Does not seem to fair to Shadowgram to see other news entities getting the first scoop. Seems strange to me.
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Well, to be fair to SG, unlike the news services, reporting news is not Marcy's job - it's a hobby. She has a "real life" (yes, such a thing does exist - even for me ;)) outside of DS, and working on SG takes a back seat to that life, as it should.
When she has more news, I'm sure she'll release it as soon as her time allows...
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No you took my posting out of context. I find your response to be highy offensive and uncalled for. The point of my posting raised an issue if Dan Curtis Productions was or was not providing information to Shadowgram on a timely basis. God knows how hard Marcy works on producing Shadowgram and I thank her immensly for her time and efforts.
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I find your response to be highy offensive and uncalled for.
That wasn't my intent, jimbo. I'm sorry if you took it that way.
I'm sure DCP does inform Marcy in a timely fashion. My only point was that sometimes it might take more time than we or even she would like before she has a chance to send news out.
Sorry for the confusion. :(
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Understood MB. Thanks. Sorry if I over re-acted a bit. No one can expect Marcy to be waiting at her computer 24 hours a day, seven days a week waiting to hear from DCP. Marcy is the best.
Peace.
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i'll risk getting jumped on here but am i the only one not excited about this
maybe because i was thrilled the last time in 1991 but just feel that somehow this will be messed up too Just MHO!i also can't get past Blair Brown with John Belushi in Continental Divide. it was on the other day!
jennifer
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Hey Jennifer, no, you're not alone in being less than thrilled with all this. I personally have adopted a wait and see attitude about all of it. Given the talent they're raking in for it, I'm becoming morbidly curious about just how awful it might be. It could turn out to be an unintentionally hilarious send-up, particularly with "Molly Dodd" as Liz and "Muad-dib"as Barnabas, especially if they are using the script posted on Barnabas-Undead. Ever imagine DS with Keno and IHOP jokes? Well, fasten your seat belts.
And who knows, maybe the Frog Fromage crew will surprise us all and create something more exciting than we could ever have imagined! I must confess that I don't hold out much hope for the latter. I saw more than I would have cared to of the WB's hatchet job on Tarzan (my housemate became addicted to that thing), and I shudder to think of 9 weeks of something along these lines with a DS label stuck on it.
G.
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especially if they are using the script posted on Barnabas-Undead. Ever imagine DS with Keno and IHOP jokes? Well, fasten your seat belts.
I'm confused (which isn't necessarily a rare thing ;)) - you keep referring to the script that was posted on barnabasundead - do you mean that at one point a full script was posted there? When I checked that site a short while after it came into being, all I ever saw were casting sides, which were posted with the disclaimer that they may not have been actual scenes from the script (I even posted here on the forum that we shouldn't necessarily read too much into them because Ben Cross had auditioned for the '91 series using a scene that was taken straight out of the hoDS script), as well as a list of descriptions of certain scenes that said such and such happens here and this and that happens there - at least half of which have been taken down - and all of which carried a similar disclaimer that they might not have been a part of the actual script. Did I miss something? (Not that I would have actually wanted to read the entire script because that would have ruined way too much for me.)
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i'll risk getting jumped on here but am i the only one not excited about this
No, Jennifer...you are NOT the only one.
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Technically, I think what was posted on the BU site was a "treatment" rather than a script. It contained a lot of dialogue, which of course could all get changed (let's pray devoutly for that consummation). It was posted I think about a week after the "sides" that were used for the auditions. Parenthetically, the "sides" included [spoiler]a scene similar to that in hoDS in which Julia confronts Barnabas at the Old House and offers him the possibility of a cure. IIRC, that scene was not part of the pilot script, so presumably the "sides" included material from future scripts. I don't think Julia is introduced in the pilot, which may be why her casting has yet to be announced.[/spoiler]
Trust me, darling--the treatment stank. But I have to say it was par for the course for what I"ve seen of Angel, Tarzan, and Charmed on the WB, not to mention the later seasons of BTVS--all of which stank in my opinion, but have their fans...
G.
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I have to say it was par for the course for what I"ve seen of Angel, Tarzan, and Charmed on the WB, not to mention the later seasons of BTVS--all of which stank in my opinion, but have their fans...
Yes - and count me among those Angel and BtVS fans. In fact, for me, BtVS' 6th season easily ranks among its best. But then, you and I have disagreed on Buffy. For instance, you see Marti Noxon as something akin to the anti-christ [b003] while, with the exception of "Bad Eggs" (which I readily admit was dreadful) from the 2nd season, I love every ounce of her contributions to BtVS (and Angel). In fact, some of Noxon's episodes - "Beauty and the Beasts" (from the 3rd season) and the sublime "The Wish" (also from the 3rd), just to name two - rank as some of my all-time favorite BtVS episodes. If the WB DS could come anywhere close to producing episodes of the level of say, "The Wish," I would be in DS heaven - and on that I know I'm not alone here. ;)
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i also can't get past Blair Brown with John Belushi in Continental Divide. it was on the other day!
I've never seen the film, but the making of it is discussed extensively in Bob Woodward's Wired, which I read several months ago mainly because I found a copy at a used bookstore for a dime and because Saturday Night Live interests me, though I'm not a huge fan of Belushi.
It was kind of striking to read about an SNL actor who envisioned himself as playing a Cary Grant, romatic lead type role in this film when the project was presented to him early on and hoped to use it as a springboard to do more "serious" work. Obviously, the film ran into all sorts of bumps, and this is not what it turned out to be.
Flash forward twenty years, and we see fellow SNL alum Bill Murray get an Oscar nomination for Lost in Translation and hear the ongoing discussion of how this was "the role of a lifetime" for him and his "one shot at an Oscar," and he comments himself that the nomination is bittersweet because he recognizes that some of his SNL mates who are no longer around never got this opportunity though they definitely wanted it.
It makes it all the more disappointing that Continental Divide turned out badly.
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I checked her age on the IMDB to make sure, and according to her birthdate listed there, February 15, 1951, she is indeed old enough at 53!
Really? I had no idea.
Brian Presley
I know who he is (I watched PC). He's an excellent young actor - and has the two Daytime Emmy noms to prove it (don't remember if he ever won one, though).
Yep -- like, when Jane Seymour was in "Live and Let Die," that was in 1973 so that was 31 years ago -- ack!!
Cool you were into PC! (I still miss it! Sniff! :'() Yep, he's a good actor (not to mention cute! LOL!) Nope, I don't think he ever won an Emmy.
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I would never say any of us {wastes} our posts here. lol
Thanks for that post anyway. I see you gave it a great deal of thought and time. Thanks.
You're welcome, Jimbo. Thank you for saying so! :D
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It makes it all the more disappointing that Continental Divide turned out badly.
She wasn't bad in it. it was just he was miscast with her. he really wasn't the romantic type
and he could not pull it sorry to say he'll always be Bluto!
have to check to see what else she has been in!
jennifer
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Hey Jennifer, no, you're not alone in being less than thrilled with all this. I personally have adopted a wait and see attitude about all of it. Given the talent they're raking in for it, I'm becoming morbidly curious about just how awful it might be. It could turn out to be an unintentionally hilarious send-up, particularly with "Molly Dodd" as Liz and "Muad-dib"as Barnabas, especially if they are using the script posted on Barnabas-Undead. Ever imagine DS with Keno and IHOP jokes? Well, fasten your seat belts.
between you and me still there will only be one Chris J ;D
(and yes I know i missed his birthday but i was sick in the hospital
so Happy Belated BDay to him :-*)
jennifer
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These quotes come from the "But What About The REAL Dark Shadows?" topic, but I figure my response is probably better served here:
Most of all I'm sorry that they seem to have chosen to "remake" DS....rather than expand upon the original concept, as they did with Star Trek's "Next Generation". I've never in my life seen a remake that did justice to the original version of anything. Maybe that's just MY issue, and not the fault of what I'm looking at...but there it is. I really don't think I WANT to see a re-creation of Willie Loomis. What's the point? Show me someone completely different being Barnabas' minion.....and make me forget the original.
Of course, we still know very little about the WB DS (the barnabasundead.com items notwithstanding, which all carry disclaimers that they might not even be from the "real" script), but what we *might* be getting with it is more of a reimagining of DS than a true remake. That's the way things were with the '91 series. Yes, many plot points were repeats of what had first happened on the original ABC serial - but much of it wasn't. Probably one of the biggest plot departures was that Barnabas didn't marry Angelique, he actually did kill her (though accidentally in a struggle (no let's torture your little sister for this Ang)), and he wasn't attacked by the "bat" (which, in what I've always thought was one of the best reimaginings on the series, was at first "disguised" as Josette!) until after Angelique had been buried in the woods. And as for character: Roger's background was different (he was an artist), Maggie's was different (she was a psychic), Vicki was different (she was not the clueless doormat of the original - she actually figured things out - she stood up for herself - and she was all the more interesting for it), and Willie was VERY different (he was hardly the hustler we knew, but a drunken shell of a man, who, after his "encounter" with Barn, was used more for comic relief than anything else - and to great effect, I might add). When it came to Willie, with the exception of having released Barn, almost everything about his involvement in the storyline was completely different from the original because Vicki, not Maggie, resembled Josette, no one was ever kidnapped by Barn, and Barn and Vicki's romance played out similarly to the way that it did on the original series at the point Original Willie was already locked away in Windcliff - so that necessitated new material for him. (Though no one was sorry to see the references to the cow mutilations go. ;D)
Now, given that an actor like Matt Czuchry and not a character actor like Jim Fyfe has been cast as Willie this time around, I'm guessing most of the changes they made for Willie in the '91 series will not be repeated in the WB DS. But it is fairly likely that Willie's story will play out very differently than it did on the original for the probable fact that the action should take place again at a point in the original story when Willie was nowhere around...
all the "stuff" that's been leaked out isn't doing anything to make me believe it's going to work for me personally.
Personally, I take what's been "leaked" with a grain of salt. Knowing how someone like, say, Joss Whedon loved to leak false info regarding both Buffy and Angel plots to keep the fans off the real track, who's to say anything that's been "revealed" on the barnabasundead site is going to be the way things actually play out? Only time - and a lot of patience - will tell. ;)
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Given the nature of the show, which has a lot of mystery and suspense with cliffhanger endings, if they repeat the same story, they would lose almost all of the initial "built-in" audience. They could have it mostly the same with a few new twists, but even that might not retain those who know what's to happen.
While from the casting it would seem that it's the same basic situation, I would have to assume that they've come up with some drastic story changes.
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Given the nature of the show, which has a lot of mystery and suspense with cliffhanger endings, if they repeat the same story, they would lose almost all of the initial "built-in" audience.
There isn't a "built in" audience - existing fans might number 50,000 at a very generous estimate... Fine to keep an old entity alive, but not very much for a new show that needs an audience of millions to survive.
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There isn't a "built in" audience - existing fans might number 50,000 at a very generous estimate... Fine to keep an old entity alive, but not very much for a new show that needs an audience of millions to survive.
This is just my opinion but I would like think there are probably several million fans that constitute Dark Shadows' fan base. I do not think if DCP told the WB that its loyal audience consisted of only 50,000 individuals, that they would have gotten to first base on this project. I remember reading somewhere that the WB was initially impressed with DS's large fan based-franchise. Perhaps you are not including original fans of the show who numbered into the high millions who may have been out of touch with DS but who may have tuned in to see the 1991 series and may tune in to see the new DS. I think I need a clearer definition of what is considered a "built in" audience.
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While from the casting it would seem that it's the same basic situation, I would have to assume that they've come up with some drastic story changes.
I would tend to think this too, Josette - if only for the fact that DC had been shopping the same old same old with a few twists here and there for more than ten years before the WB got interested. With John Wells and Mark Verheiden now involved and Verheiden (and not DC [clap]) writing the script, I'm expecting quite a few surprises - some which might even shake the "purist" view to its very core - and that can only be a good thing so far as I'm concerned. ;) If one thinks about it, the great irony is that some people complain, "Oh, they're just rehashing the old characters/storylines, blah, blah, blah" - but the minute something really deviates from what went before (like the way Willie was portrayed in the '91 series, or Maggie) those same people are complaining that things were changed. Go figure. :-
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Just read about some new people added to the new 2004 DS at http://www.barnabasundead.com/
Head make-up artist of Buffy tvs & emmy award winner Todd mcIntoch signed on.
(http://www.makeupmag.com/images/Content_Photos/Todd.jpg)
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Oh, wow! The addition of Todd McIntosh to the show is just too wild because earlier today I was rereading a short piece about him in Entertainment Weekly's Ultimate Guide to Buffy the Vampire Slayer issue from back in October 1999. I'll scan and post it...
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http://members.tripod.com/~llwyd/buffy/index.htm
here is some of Todd McIntosh's work on BTVS. click onto each picture for full process of make-up.....
He is also a fan of DS and credits "House Of Dark Shadows" master make-up artist Dick Smith as a major inspiration.
New DS 2004 Hair Stylist Lisa Maria Alpert is also from the Buffy line-up
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(http://www.dsboards.com/images/todd.jpg)
And look - his favorite Buffy episode was "The Wish" - obviously a man after my own heart! (Even if he liked it for different reasons than I do, since mine have to do with character and plot - not makeup.) [lol2]
If they've hired McIntosh to do vamp transformations similar to the ones on Buffy/Angel, well, I think that sound you just heard was half of fandom passing out and hitting the floor. [a345] (But what was I just saying about shaking things up? [wink2])
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MB check out my last post, Willow as a vampire in "The Wish" episode is featured also the werewolf make up mentioned in the article you posted is shown. - Robert
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This is just my opinion but I would like think there are probably several million fans that constitute Dark Shadows' fan base. I do not think if DCP told the WB that its loyal audience consisted of only 50,000 individuals, that they would have gotten to first base on this project. I remember reading somewhere that the WB was initially impressed with DS's large fan based-franchise.
You've got a point, Jimbo! I hope you're right! Does anyone have any information about actual figures for our fan base? Maybe we should take a door-to-door poll! LOL!
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Yet another article on McIntosh, from Buffy the Vampire Slayer magazine, Summer 1999--
Personal Demons
BY TODD MCINTOSH WITH MIKE STOKES
If you've ever wondered why new demons always seem so surly from the moment they show up in Sunnydale, the answer may lie in Todd McIntosh's makeup trailer. If it isn't bad enough that they're already facing certain death at the hands of the Slayer, villains often experience a bit of a hazing from McIntosh before they are unleashed. The demonization period for the actors beneath the masks involves spending upwards of four hours having various hideous features glued to their faces. With those characters who have names deemed by McIntosh as too complicated to keep track of, he temporarily changes their often intimidating monikers to something more descriptive and much less awe-inspiring. After all, if your name was "The Judge" and your reputation was built by destroying cities and wreaking havoc around the globe, how would you react if you spent four hours in a makeup chair with some Hollywood mortal calling you the Smurf demon? It'd probably make you want to incinerate everybody in the mall too.
"After a while, all the demon names blend together," contends Buffy makeup supervisor McIntosh. "I'm not good with names anyway--Lagos, Kulak, Kralik, Balthazar.....help!"
When it comes to turning men into monsters through specical makeup effects, McIntosh is the best in the business--and he's got the Emmy Award to prove it. A longtime fan of the vampire lore, McIntosh seems to be the perfect fit for a show like Buffy. His career unofficially began when he was just a kid trying to replicate the look of the vampire Barnabas on the T.V. series Dark Shadows (1966-71). When he was a teenager, he was doing makeup effects for a local theater company in his native Canada, and he began work as the head makeup artist on Buffy in 1997.
Whatever he chooses to call them, the creatures which McIntosh and Optic Nerve (the show's visual effects house) work together to create each have a distinct look and are uniquely unforgettable. Having worked on dozens of homicidal uglies and creepy bloodsuckers since he began work on Buffy, and as his third season with the show rolls to a close, we thought we'd ask Todd for his favorite villains and let him explain what goes into making the best of the baddest. We found that there's never a dull moment for McIntosh, and each week brings a new challenge that winds up being more rewarding than the last. Here are five demons that stand out in his mind as the most challenging and enjoyable he's done.
(to be continued ;))
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I did see on imdb that he's from Scotland and -- O.T. -- Geraint Wyn-Davies is originally from Wales but his family moved to Canada ... wonder what's with all the "Celtic" vampires ... I admit I generally think of vampires as dark and brooding, but it's best not to stereotype people ... :D
LOL, then you had Frid who is two generations removed from Scotland. The Celtic tradition seems to be popular.:)
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Personal Demons cont'd
No. 1 (Episode 14)
Balthazar
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/makeup1.jpg)
I called him "The Pudding Man," but the 1500-pound demon, Balthazar, is one of the most interesting creatures we've done for a while. It was very ingenious the way Optic Nerve designed the suit and the cooperation between al the departments to make it work. The construction department built a tank so that it looked like Balthazar was floating in water, but inside, there was an inner ring of the tank walled-off into a separate section where the actor was actually sitting in a chair, so he was dry.
Optic Nerve had this huge suit that went over the inside ring, so the actor could put his head through the neck hole, and there were two holes for his hands to go through. Gloves were put on over the hands, and the cowl and face were blended on to his body. It was quite a procedure getting him in and getting him out of that thing. The makeup itself took about four hours, but once we got him into the situation it only took about 20 minutes to glue him in.
That was far from the end, however, because in the middle of the day, Buffy kills him--electrocutes him--so we then had to go in and paint him while he stayed in the suit and makeup. We had four makeup artists working at the same time, painting the whole suit and his face to make him look burned. I was on a plank stretched across the pool at the back with an airbrush laying on my side trying to paint in all the burn marks, which was difficult, but the poor actor had to sit there the whole time. It was very interesting. I've never done anything quite like that before.
No. 2
The Master and Vampires Willow and Xander(http://www.dsboards.com/images/makeup2.jpg)
We were delighted to do the Master again when the character returned for "The Wish" episode. The Master has always been one of my favorites. The makeup is in a number of sections and is fairly complicated to put on. This episode was also special because, of course, it also allowed Alyson Hannigan and Nick Brendon to break character. Seeing them in their evil vampire outfits was so much fun; they both relished that completely. The days were hectic because Nick and Aly had three looks to be changed in and out for the way scens were scheduled: Good Nick & Aly, Bad Nick & Aly and Vamp Nick and Aly.
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/makeup2B.jpg)
No. 3 (Episode 16)
D'Hoffryn
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/makeup3.jpg)
This is a demon that we had to throw together very quickly. It turned out we had a scheduling change and he had to work sooner than we all expected. "Mr. Hodgepodge" became a combination of monsters from five different episodes all thrown together. His head was rebuilt from the Judge--or what I used to call the Smurf creature from "Surprise" and "Innocence." That big cowl and headpiece with the horns was then combined with the pointed ears from some she-demons in Xander's episode "The Zeppo." An aging face piece was added from somewhere--another show Optic Nerve has done--and the hands are from the Rage Monster in the "Jekyll and Hyde" episode. So he's got a little bit of all our monsters glued on him somewhere, which isn't a common practice. Usually Optic Nerve custom makes masks and appliances for each character, but this time around, the schedule could only work if the actor worked the first day of filming, not the last. We were really hard-pressed to do something there. This is an example of how Optic Nerve and I work together so well. We are both capable of improvising--something a novice can't usually do. We work very well together.
[Tired now]
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This is just my opinion but I would like think there are probably several million fans that constitute Dark Shadows' fan base. I do not think if DCP told the WB that its loyal audience consisted of only 50,000 individuals, that they would have gotten to first base on this project.
Would that it was true, but there simply aren't those numbers out there. Look at the merchandise sales, convention attendance figures, Sci-Fi viewing figures, and you'll see that "Dark Shadows" is very much a fringe fandom. Moreover, the existing fans by and large aren't the demographic group WB will be pitching a new show to.
My view is that the WB have bought DS for its franchise potential - it's clear that the format can appeal to a young audience, and the massive existing library of scripts offers a stronger thematic base than an entirely new show would.
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I agree that that the WB is not interested in the demographics of the original fan base(us old bats) and I agree that they are banking on DS potential audience. I just think that the number you stated, as DS built in audience, is much higher. There are many "inactive" DS fans out there-I hope.
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Again with the notion that Angel was canceled so that it can be "replaced" by DS! And this time it's not only on the 'Net on a fringe message board - it's printed in a newspaper (http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/entertainment/8353049.htm) with no rebuttal as if it's accepted fact. Wonderful! ::)
Q: Dear Chuck: What's up with the networks these days? I mean, the WB canceled "Angel" for a remake of "Dark Shadows"? And Fox's strange decisions to make horrible reality love shows, one about a little guy ("The Littlest Groom") and another about detecting gays ("Playing It Straight")? And then there's the canceling of other shows, including "Karen Sisco," and not promoting shows such as "Alias," which was on such a long hiatus that people like me have missed the recent episodes. By the way, how is "Alias" doing ratings-wise?
-- Anonymous
A This is a particularly tough time to be a fan of broadcast TV. The networks are in such a desperate fight to maintain their ratings that they're throwing shows around left and right, yanking them off the schedule and trying them in different time slots, etc. But in this state of utter panic, they're alienating viewers like you.
As far as "Alias" is concerned, ...
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Personal Demons end
No. 4 (Episode 7)
Lagos
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/makeup4.jpg)
Lagos was a wonderful, wonderful demon, but the way his scenes ended up being shot, his hair swings in front of his face the whole time, so the audience never really gets to see him. We had used this sort of dog makeup pattern that was all brown and tan with black spots all over the face. The teeth were beautifully articulated to mesh together realistically, we had an amazing wig made by expert Erwin Kupitz that snapped into the fiberglass head piece with these big, curling horns on the side, and the monster had violet lenses. It took five hours to get this man into this makeup and you never saw him! Not being able to see him on-screen turned out to be a big disappointment for the makeup department, because the face was really interesting. I'm happy that we have photographs and pictures to show, but it's not quite the same as having it on the screen. Still, Lagos is one of my favorite demons.
No. 5 (Episode 11)
Gingerbread Demon(http://www.dsboards.com/images/makeup5.jpg)
McIntosh checks Roger Morrissey as the Gingerbread demon.
The Hansel and Gretel demon from "Gingerbread" was a departure from what our demons generally look like. The guy who played the part, of course, was very, very tall--he was huge. There was a lot of body work that had to be done on him, so to apply his makeup, we ended up building a sawhorse platform that allowed him to lay down in the trailer. He was too tall to sit comfortably in the chairs for the work we had to do. Originally in the designs, it was decided there wasn't going to be enough in the budget to create a chest prosthetic for the creature, so we were originally just doing big, humped shoulders and a face piece, but it was soon clear to me that it wouldn't be enough. I confided to John Vulich and Michael Pack at Optic Nerve that I really didn't think it was going to work to go from this witchy, gnarled face into a smooth body, so I pushed and pushed and they eventually found a chest made for another show that actually fit the actor. I just love working with Optic Nerve--we have such a good rapport, I can give them suggestions and they bend over backward to help. Combining this chest with the hump, face and finger extensions, it was really one of our favorite monsters. It was interesting to note that when you're on the set churning out monsters each week the crew becomes blase; there's a demon in full makeup wandering around the set, and nobody reacts. But when this seven-foot tall Hansel and Gretel thing came out of the trailer, everyone posed with him. We have Polaroids by the thousands. Every cast and every crew member all wanted their picture taken with him. He was really fun.
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If I may, it's been a very long time for me:
Very nice choices so far. No one could handle a subhuman, badly Chromakey-ed William Hurt like Blair Brown. I'm sorry, I love her. And Martin Donovan, well, there's no comparison. Brilliant man. And then there's Marley Shelton, who stunk up the horrible Valentine. Other than that, I am cautiously interested.
I have never had any patience for Smallville but any fool knows that these properties (yes, even Tarzan, etc) must be updated if they are to be re-done and ported to a contemporary audience, and that means removing Dan Curtis from a large portion of the equation so we never, ever have to witness the "cops with crosses and stakes" scene from HODS again. Mark Verheiden has done fine work prior to Smallville and PJ Hogan is brilliant. There is an innate, huge franchise value in Dark Shadows and always has been - it's just a matter of changing up the story, and weeding out the most tired elements (and people involved, ahem) .
The gauze and thick smoke cinematography barely flew in '91, and it will not fly now - the romance itself has to be about more than a guy sitting around the decrepit manor property and Vicki thinking, 'wow, how sexy' and not 'wow, I should call the cops.' Barnabas can't go around killing everybody anymore while Julia says things like 'you had to' - what happened to Daphne in '91 would be unacceptable now. He can't only fixate on Vicki because of Josette. He can't be a complete psycho, basically, because it will not work. It cannot be episode upon episode of Barnabas sitting in the easy chair from 1684 and drinking port while talking about how the past fascinates him, trilling lines about endless love beyond time, etc. DCP probably wants that, but it can't fly anymore.
In short:Yes, the WB can be cancerous, but this kind of modernization is a necessary step. You cannot leave this up to Dan Curtis.
A part of me is still very skeptical, as I'm not sure DS as a serial can ever fly again as long as A. the new guard does not understand the magic of the original, insane series and B. the old guard refuses to step back. There has to be a happy medium.
And that's all you're getting out of me for another five years. Or maybe until fall.
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Look at the merchandise sales, convention attendance figures, Sci-Fi viewing figures, and you'll see that "Dark Shadows" is very much a fringe fandom.
I don't think that merchandise sales and the other items mentioned reflect the overall fandom. I'm sure there are many who would love to watch the show but who don't actually go to conventions and buy items. I'm quite involved here, but except for a couple of the books I've never bought anything.
As to watching on SciFi - number one, they never really advertised it. I'm sure many old fans have no idea it was on. And, it was on when most would be going to work. However much they might have loved it, they might not be that big of fans to tape it every day and add it to whatever else they have to do.
Still, once they learn that a new version will be on, I'm sure many old-time fans would want to tune in and check it out.
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ShadowGram (SG) announces the following breaking news for Dark Shadows (DS).
--- 2004 DARK SHADOWS PILOT IN PRODUCTION
The highly-anticipated new 1-hour DS pilot for the WB Network began filming April 2 in the Los Angeles area. This ShadowGram Online Updates List and SG print issues have detailed this project as it developed and will continue to do so.
In addition to those cast members previously announced on this List are new performers: Blair Brown (Elizabeth), Jason Shaw (Joe Haskell), Jenna Dewan (Sophia - new character), and Alexis Thorpe (Kelly Greer - new character). The performers to play Dr. Julia Hoffman and Sheriff George Patterson will be confirmed in the next week or two.
Following are selected acting credits for the new DS performers:
Blair Brown - TV: The Days and Nights of Molly Dodd, Feds, The White Oaks of Jalna. Film: Dogville, Space Cowboys, Random Hearts, Stealing Home, Continental Divide, Altered States, One Trick Pony, The Paper Chase.
Jason Shaw - TV: E! Entertainment Television correspondent (Fashion TV). Film: Save Me A Seat. Plus many television commercials and professional modeling.
Jenna Dewan - TV: Boston Public. Film: The Hot Chick, Hip Hopera: Carmen.
Alexis Thorpe - TV: Days of Our Lives, The Young and the Restless. Film: American Wedding, Rocky & Bullwinkle, The Forsaken, Pretty Cool.
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Oh, thank God. Alexis Thorpe. How wonderful for her, after having been mauled and stuffed into a pinata by the Botox horror that is Deidre Hall.
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Jason Shaw with ex-fiancee Paris Hilton:
http://www.americanphoto.co.jp/pages/celeb/K/Previews/Plans-52821.jpg
Alexis Thorpe (2001) (http://us.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/1084/Events/1084/wi20010226_AlexisThorpe_Granitz_152862.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Thorpe,%20Alexis)
Alexis Thorpe (2003) (http://us.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/1918/Events/1918/AlexisThor_Mazur_812247_400.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Thorpe,%20Alexis)
A fan page:
www.jennadewan.com
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Apparently Jason Shaw is all over the Web. Rather than post links to sites, just go here (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Jason+Shaw&btnG=Google+Search) to see the results of a Google search.
Though, those of you wondering if he can follow in a certain Don Briscoe/Chris Pennock department (and, as always, you know who you are ;)) might want to check this one out first:
Solis Indepth with Jason Shaw (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/solissf/soinwijashfa.html) [b003]
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Bio and photo of dancer Jenna Dewan:
http://www.showstopperonline.com/where/where_3.html
(Scroll to 4th entry)
Official site:
www.jennadewanonline.com
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I have not posted here in a long time but I am so excited about the possibility of a new Dark Shadows. I love the casting thus far and am THRILLED about Alexis Thorpe's casting...I loved her work on Days of our Lives from the start right up to her high profiled, completely tasteless write-off this past fall.
Wiley
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after having been mauled and stuffed into a pinata by the Botox horror that is Deidre Hall.
LOL!! [a1f5]
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I don't think that merchandise sales and the other items mentioned reflect the overall fandom. I'm sure there are many who would love to watch the show but who don't actually go to conventions and buy items. I'm quite involved here, but except for a couple of the books I've never bought anything.
As to watching on SciFi - number one, they never really advertised it. I'm sure many old fans have no idea it was on. And, it was on when most would be going to work. However much they might have loved it, they might not be that big of fans to tape it every day and add it to whatever else they have to do.
Still, once they learn that a new version will be on, I'm sure many old-time fans would want to tune in and check it out.
I agree, I think there are many fans out there who don't go to the conventions, aren't online, and/or don't buy the merchandise. Plus, there are still people out there (like me!) who don't have cable so were unable to watch DS on Sci Fi. I do hope they check out the new version on the WB, though I know many were not interested in the '91 NBC version at the time. But I'm hoping that this new version will be more of a re-imagining, and that once people see that they're not just filming the HODS script again (hopefully! Love the movie, but we need something new.), they'll be more inclined to check it out.
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They list Boston Public for Jenna Dewan. I've seen all of that, so I looked up to see who she was. She's not amongst the regulars, so I checked through all the episodes and can't find her listed as a guest performer either.
They don't list any new regulars for season 4, so I suppose that's a possibility.
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They don't list any new regulars for season 4, so I suppose that's a possibility.
Variety's Web site lists that appearance in her resume like this:
Show: Boston Public (Series (60 minutes) / FOX / 03/04)
Episode: Chapter Seventy-Seven
Role: Luwanda
Aired: 01/16/2004
And Variety's synopsis for that episode says:
Premise: Marlo starts her in-vitro fertilization process. A very rebellious female student joins the student body. An incredible student sues the school when she is forced to share her honor society presidency with a black wheelchair bound student.
Does any of that refresh your memory? :)
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Wow new people that gives me hope that they will take it to a new place!
jennifer
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Variety's Web site lists that appearance in her resume like this:
Show: Boston Public (Series (60 minutes) / FOX / 03/04)
Episode: Chapter Seventy-Seven
Role: Luwanda
Aired: 01/16/2004
And Variety's synopsis for that episode says:
Premise: Marlo starts her in-vitro fertilization process. A very rebellious female student joins the student body. An incredible student sues the school when she is forced to share her honor society presidency with a black wheelchair bound student.
Does any of that refresh your memory? :)
Yes, I remember all of those stories, but I don't recall who Luwanda was. I went back to the episode listing and that character isn't named, so maybe it was a bit part. The other possibility is that she was the "rebellious female student" but I think she was in the next episode, too.
[On edit - I went back to the listings and determined the character's name for the rebellious one, and it's not Luwanda.]
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Uh oh, I just realized that my last post makes it sound like I didn't like the '91 DS, which I actually did -- ack! (Not that it matters -- LOL!) I was just referring to the fact that it started out with the HODS script -- even though it did go in cool new directions later. Anyway, the point that I was trying to make (and probably failed -- ha!) was that, like, for example, a friend of mine who was a fan of the original DS tuned into the first episode of the '91 DS for a few minutes, didn't like it, turned it off and never checked it out again after that. So I'm hoping that the new WB DS will be different (re-imagined) right from the start so that long-time DS fans will see something new to catch their interest right away and won't be inclined to turn it off never to tune in again and give it another chance.
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So I'm hoping that the new WB DS will be different (re-imagined) right from the start so that long-time DS fans will see something new to catch their interest right away and won't be inclined to turn it off never to tune in again and give it another chance.
I think that can go both ways. I'm sure there's a large group who would feel lthat way and be more likely to give it a chance if they see something new. But, there's probably another big group that would have a fit over anything different and quit watching for that reason!
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These new casting announcements should appeal to WB's demographics.
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Regarding Kelly Greer and Sophia, I only glanced over the original spoilers on barnabasundead, and it dawns on me that I think I was wrong when I posted:
[spoiler]supposedly there is no Mrs. Johnson - she's been replaced by a young female servant named Kelly Greer[/spoiler]
I'm now thinking that what was actually said was that [spoiler]MrsJ has been replaced by the Sophia character. Other than being somehow involved with Willie, I don't recall much of anything else that was said about Kelly - which is more than fine with me.[/spoiler] And now that Jenna Dewan has been cast as Sophia, who knows - maybe they'll incorporate her dance background into the character and she'll be holding [spoiler]dance classes down in a room in Collinwood's basement, and that could lead to the discovery of some heretofore unknown horror.[/spoiler]
[lghy] [lol2] [lghy]
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Good call, Most Mysterious Seer.
Laughing is more fun than crying, after all.
G.
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Well, what do you know, a news service has finally reported that Alec Newman has been cast as Barn. Check out this article (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=televisionNews&storyID=4759739§ion=news) on Reuters.
(Although, who knew Barn was played in the "original" by an actor who was only 19 in April 1967?! :- Hopefully that bit didn't originate in the Hollywood Reporter because it's amazingly sloppy reporting...)
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Hahaha, glad it's not *my* desk that the hate mail is going to come flying across over THAT little goof!
G.
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No kidding, G.! ::)
But I think it *might* have been a Reuters-only slip because I just discovered that Zap2it.com's version (http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|87352|1|,00.html) of the article reads:
"Over on The WB, the remake of "Dark Shadows" has found its Barnabas Collins. The 200-year-old vampire will be played by Scottish thespian Alec Newman. A veteran of The WB's soon-to-depart vampire drama "Angel" (he played Drogyn in the episode "A Hole in the World"), Newman's other credits include the recent miniseries adaptations of "Dune" and "Children of Dune."
(Just what are they paying researchers at the news outlets these day? Whatever it is, it might be too much if that Reuters bit is any indication...)
Something that I find interesting is that several of the recent casting reports are treating the news as if DS being on the WB's schedule next season is already a done deal. For example, Sci-Fi Wire's report (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/news_brief.html) of Newman's casting says:
"Alec Newman will play Barnabas Collins in The WB's upcoming Dark Shadows remake, according to The Hollywood Reporter. Newman starred as Paul Atreides in the SCI FI Channel minseries Dune and its sequel, Children of Dune.
Not that he's playing Barn in the pilot for a potential WB series, but that he will play Barnabas Collins in The WB's upcoming Dark Shadows remake. An example of more sloppy reporting? Or...
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Now that we have a male underwear model onboard, can Paris Hilton being cast as Julia be far behind?
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Sadly (he said facetiously ;)), Paris is probably too young to play Julia opposite Alec Newman's Barn. (OK, everyone - let's hear a collective "Aw, darn it!!" :D)
But to be fair to Jason Shaw, unlike some of Calvin Klein's models, apparently he's modeled much more than underwear for Tommy Hilfiger and Versace, and he's appeared in ad campaigns where the clothes he wore weren't the focus of what was being sold (i.e. Karl Lagerfield fragrances).
Also, keep in mind, Vlad, that you yourself have said that the WB DS casting director is no slouch. So, chances are that he must have seen more than the obvious in Shaw...
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I think that can go both ways. I'm sure there's a large group who would feel lthat way and be more likely to give it a chance if they see something new. But, there's probably another big group that would have a fit over anything different and quit watching for that reason!
Yeah, you've got a point. I think I've posted myself into a corner -- LOL!
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he played Drogyn in the episode "A Hole in the World"
That's him? Say no more. I'm onboard with that.
Kelly Greer, to my understanding, is [spoiler]due to get vamped. Which would fit Alexis Thorpe, who's played her share of villainnesses. Hopefully we will not get another rehash of the "cops with crosses" scene.[/spoiler]
The trick to the new DS, IMHO, will be to strike a finer balance than, say, Smallville, between episodic and serial. I think you can, and probably have to, make DS episodic in primetime. It can be done, and could help in establishing Barnabas as more than a complete psychopath. But it has also got to keep a serialized feel, and cannot rely on 'freaks of the week.' Something like Angel's second and third year would work for them.
Blair Brown, Martin Donovan, and Drogyn. Yum.
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But to be fair to Jason Shaw, unlike some of Calvin Klein's models, apparently he's modeled much more than underwear for Tommy Hilfiger and Versace, and he's appeared in ad campaigns where the clothes he wore weren't the focus of what was being sold (i.e. Karl Lagerfield fragrances).
Hmm, I'm not sure just how far you have your tongue in your cheek ...
Also, keep in mind, Vlad, that you yourself have said that the WB DS casting director is no slouch. So, chances are that he must have seen more than the obvious in Shaw...
ditto ...
Seriously, though, I just figure that given this is the WB network, the casting director is obligated to make a few non-acting choices and must keep the target audience in mind ...
Blair Brown is probably going to feel like everyone's mother on this set ...
P.S. In case anyone wondered, I really wasn't logged in to the forum for 12 straight hours yesterday ... must have forgotten to log out ... :-[
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But to be fair to Jason Shaw, unlike some of Calvin Klein's models, apparently he's modeled much more than underwear for Tommy Hilfiger and Versace, and he's appeared in ad campaigns where the clothes he wore weren't the focus of what was being sold (i.e. Karl Lagerfield fragrances).
Hmm, I'm not sure just how far you have your tongue in your cheek ...
Also, keep in mind, Vlad, that you yourself have said that the WB DS casting director is no slouch. So, chances are that he must have seen more than the obvious in Shaw...
ditto ...
In both these instances, no tongue anywhere near cheek. Those were serious comments. (If I'd intended any of it to be tongue in cheek, at least one smiley would have been in each of those two sections to convey that. ;))
Seriously, though, I just figure that given this is the WB network, the casting director is obligated to make a few non-acting choices and must keep the target audience in mind ...
That may very well be - but why should one simply assume it? ??? For a moment, let's imagine the notion that just possibly Jason Shaw can actually act. (Hey, it could happen. ;)) If they'd wanted to hire a mannequin for the part of Joe, it might have been extremely easy to have done that at the outset rather than wait until so close to the start of shooting. One doesn't even need to assume that there are plenty of "actors" around who more than fit the "mannequin" bill... And if we're to hold the fact that he's worked as a model against Shaw, then should we do the same with regard to Ivana Milicevic because she's worked as a model as well? She's probably even modeled lingerie. [haironend]
OHMYGOD - where will the madness end?! [shockeyes]
Now, those last bits were definitely meant with tongue firmly planted in cheek. [b003] But I think my exaggerated exercise may have made my point. Former, current, or even future model doesn't necessarily equal, simply by its very nature, a talentless individual, now does it? :)
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Seriously, though, I just figure that given this is the WB network, the casting director is obligated to make a few non-acting choices and must keep the target audience in mind ...
Vlad, you seem to think that there are insufficiant numbers of stunningly beautiful people out there who also happen to be talented, well trained, professional actors. I hardly think that can be true, considering how many young people today are enrolled in serious Film and Theatre programs.
That being the case, why on earth would a business enterprise like a film studio stoop to hiring untrained talentless models to be performers in TV pilots....which surely must be among the most expensive new "products" produced by any business in America?
In other words...who in their right minds would risk the money it takes to make a pilot, by hiring a kid who can't act, just because they're cute......when cute kids who CAN act are lined up around the block?
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OT...
In case anyone wondered, I really wasn't logged in to the forum for 12 straight hours yesterday ... must have forgotten to log out ... :-[
No worries. Even if you leave the forum open on your screen, once you're inactive for a period of time your name disappears.
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Since we've discussed location shooting for our favorite pilot here, thought I'd mention that the L.A. papers are reporting today that a record was set in March for TV series and pilots shot on location in Los Angeles instead of chasing cheaper costs to Canada, with figures for overall filming rising nearly 22% from a year ago.
If you're interested in reading more about it, here's a link to the Daily News article, which is available to everyone:
TV shooting boosts production stats (http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200%257E20954%257E2064716,00.html?search=filter)
DS is not mentioned, but the WB is.
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(Although, who knew Barn was played in the "original" by an actor who was only 19 in April 1967?! :- Hopefully that bit didn't originate in the Hollywood Reporter because it's amazingly sloppy reporting...)
Well. Reuters sent out a correction (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=televisionNews&storyID=4780330):
"...a role played in the original by Jonathan Frid.
Wouldn't want to be in the shoes of whomever was responsible for that having to happen. [lghy]
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I had a nice discussion with Mark Verheiden, Co-Executive Producer of the new Dark Shadows on Sunday, March 28 at the 12th Annual Creation Sci-Fi Summit. Notes of our discussion and pictures are here (http://victoriawinters.net/grandslam/breakfast.htm). Note: also contains other materials since it was not an exclusive Dark Shadows convention.
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Wow! Thank you, victoriawinters!! Such nice accounts of the whole event and the DS information sounds really good and promising! :)
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OK - first off, vw, I have to say that I am SOOOOOO jealous of you having met Robia LaMorte. I loved Jenny and have yet to get over her death back in Season #2 of Buffy - and that scene when Giles discovered her body. "Passion" ranks as one of my all-time favorite Buffy episodes.
As for your talk with Verheiden, very interesting and thanks for informing us. I love your advice that long time fans should keep an open mind (but then, I suspect you might know that I would [wink2]).
Per a few other remarks:- Please no KLS on the show! Well, at least not in the first season (if there is one). The WB DS should create its own identity before any former DS stars might be brought in!
- David Fury as a potential writer? I respectfully disagree with that idea. In fact, the mere idea of it practically sends me into cardiac arrest!! (Think 100 times more than Gothick dislikes Marti Noxon's work and you'll come close to an approximation of how much I dislike the vast majority of his contributions to Buffy/Angel. Much of it continues to give me nightmares - but for all the wrong reasons. :'() The man wouldn't recognize subtlety if it up and slapped him in the face - and subtlety is a major prerequisite to write a show like DS. (There's no surprise to my mind why publications like Entertainment Weekly and TV Guide rate many of his episodes with some of the lowest grades possible.)
- Shame on you for not asking what house would stand in as Collinwood! :( (But honestly, I doubt he might have told you because they most probably wouldn't want curious fans showing up.)
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Thanks for that. Season-long arc sounds good.
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Seriously, though, I just figure that given this is the WB network, the casting director is obligated to make a few non-acting choices and must keep the target audience in mind ...
Vlad, you seem to think that there are insufficiant numbers of stunningly beautiful people out there who also happen to be talented, well trained, professional actors.
Did I say that?
I hardly think that can be true, considering how many young people today are enrolled in serious Film and Theatre programs.
No doubt!
That being the case, why on earth would a business enterprise like a film studio stoop to hiring untrained talentless models to be performers in TV pilots....which surely must be among the most expensive new "products" produced by any business in America?
In other words...who in their right minds would risk the money it takes to make a pilot, by hiring a kid who can't act, just because they're cute......when cute kids who CAN act are lined up around the block?
It's 4 in the morning as I read this, so I can't really put myself in the mind of a TV exec and explain why they might do this, but, hmmm ... seems rather obvious that this DOES happen ...
Actually, I wouldn't want to deny the possibility of talent -- there are many who seem to "have it all" -- I'm reminded of an art opening I attended at a trendy gallery some years ago -- the guy's exhibit, which showed a creative and puckish mind, was also a model (no surprise when you saw him) AND the v.p. of an investment firm. (He was my age, late 20s). Life's just not fair!*
*And did I mention, he wrote his dissertation on "Finnegan's Wake"?**
**OK, that part I made up ^-^
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Check out www.collinwood.net for a glut of news on the pilot, including that Jonathan Frid has just turned down a cameo role...
Too bad... that could have been amazing :-[
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Check out www.collinwood.net for a glut of news on the pilot, including that Jonathan Frid has just turned down a cameo role...
Too bad... that could have been amazing :-[
Frid' s appearance would have blown all of us away. What a pity.
What I like about the NY Post article was that when the source was referring to Dark Shadows website's and says, " We read the Web sites to get their feedback- a lot"....
You mean the higher ups are actually looking at our ramblings. lol
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Interesting NYP article, Stuart - thanks so much for calling our attention to it.
As for Frid, it's no surprise whatsoever that he declined an appearance. Anyone who payed attention to almost anything he said during various 1990 interviews that were done when the '91 series was in production knows that he feels VERY strongly that he's past contributing anything more to DS. (His exact wording in one such interview was: "No, I have no interest in being part of it again. No, no, no. In that sense I've done what I could do for Dark Shadows. I have no interest in returning to it at all." ) And while I'm sure that many fans are extremely disappointed that Frid won't make an appearance - I, however, am not one of them. As I said in my response to vw, I don't think any former DS actors should appear on a WB DS' first season because I feel that the show should create its own identity before "paying tribute," if you will, to any previous version.
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What I like about the NY Post article was that when the source was referring to Dark Shadows website's and says, " We read the Web sites to get their feedback- a lot"....
You mean the higher ups are actually looking at our ramblings. lol
As I've mentioned a few times, DCP did read some of the postings on the old Prodigy DS BB and even contributed occassionally. There's no reason not to believe that they still might check out what the fans are saying today. (Whether they pay attention to anything we say here, might be a different story entirely, though. [lghy] There are a lot of other venues with higher profiles. But let them have their spotlight - Midnite, dom and I are quite content with the small niche of fandom we've carved out. ;))
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According to a recent interview in the UK's "Guardian" newspaper, John Wells makes it policy on all his shows to have a production member monitoring fan-sites. So yeah, we're all being watched.
[wave]
;)
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But did the article have to appear in that fish-wrap rag of a newspaper? Having to go to a "NY Post" site makes me want to go wash my hands, and wipe off my monitor screen...... [puke]
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As I've mentioned a few times, DCP did read some of the postings on the old Prodigy DS BB and even contributed occassionally. There's no reason not to believe that they still might check out what the fans are saying today. (Whether they pay attention to anything we say here, might be a different story entirely, though. [lghy] There are a lot of other venues with higher profiles. But let them have their spotlight - Midnite, dom and I are quite content with the small niche of fandom we've carved out. ;))
I was of course being factitious in my last comment. We all here should be very honored that our opinions are being heard. It makes posting on this board even more worthwhile!
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But did the article have to appear in that fish-wrap rag of a newspaper? Having to go to a "NY Post" site makes me want to go wash my hands, and wipe off my monitor screen...... [puke]
I am not going to defend the N.Y. Post here. However, the newspaper has a large readership and any exposure to the new DS can only help us.
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Having to go to a "NY Post" site makes me want to go wash my hands, and wipe off my monitor screen......
I hear you. But the thing is that someone at DCP must have some sort of a relationship with the NYP because more often than not it's the paper that's the first to print updates like this. Large readership or no, it's not the way I'd go - but then, no one asked me. [lghy]
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Well, since someone in the NEW WB DS production staff is supposedly reading what we write, here's something for them to chew on:
*Memo to your hotshot new makeup artist: DON'T do a repeat of your award-winning BtVS vamp makeup for the DS Undead. I'm sure I'm not the only fan out there who'd rather not see Collinsport overrun with Klingon-vamps (as I call them).
*If Robert Cobert ISN'T hired to score the series, please think about a sound that will be eerie, mysterious, and otherwordly, not the reheated Erich Wolfgang Korngold and Delius fests we get for the Smallville scores.
If you're not familiar with the original DS score, something along the lines of the classic Sixties Outer Limits score would work great.
*Memo to Mark Verheiden: more adult dialogue for Dark Shadows, please? I realize that the audiences seem to love the pablum you put into the mouths of your characters on Smallville, but we'd prefer a somewhat more sophisticated sound for such characters as Barnabas Collins, Roger Collins, and Liz. Why, on the old series even Willie was known to have a philosophical side. I realize this is only the WB, so I'm not expecting Shakespeare, Ibsen, or even Tony Kushner. :>
Has anyone here ever seen the short lived WB series Gross Pointe? Every time I think of things behind the scenes at the NEW WB DS office, I find myself recalling certain scenes of that series. I really, really need a DVD release for Gross Pointe before the NEW WB DS hits my screen with a big, gooey splat.
G.
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Having to go to a "NY Post" site makes me want to go wash my hands, and wipe off my monitor screen......
I hear you. But the thing is that someone at DCP must have some sort of a relationship with the NYP because more often than not it's the paper that's the first to print updates like this. Large readership or no, it's not the way I'd go - but then, no one asked me. [lghy]
Again, I am not here to debate the quality or the reputation of the N.Y. Post. Your last comment appears to me to be paradoxical to your other post thanking Stuart for posting the same NY Post article. Just out of curiosity MB, it appears that you would rather not have any updates about the new DS than have it come from the NY Post (and thanking Stuart at the same time for publishing the article)? OK you are confusing me and I am a confused enough person. lol
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No paradox, jimbo. I'm happy for the news in the article, and I'm grateful to Stuart for posting that such an article exists. But I can't say I wouldn't have been happier had it been published in a different paper (well, except maybe the National Enquirer ::)). That's all...
But news is news. So, I suppose I should just take it where we can get it. :D
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I can't say I wouldn't have been happier had it been published in a different paper (well, except maybe the National Enquirer ::)).
I agree. I think the NY Times would be a better source! lol
p.s. This NY Post article has Angel fans at the WB and Whedon discussion boards writing in complaining to the editors of the NY Post about this allegedly pro-DS and anti-Angel article. Maybe we should write to the Post to offset the negativity surrounding this article. I have written to the head of the Post's TV Section at mshain@nypost.com myself. This article has fueled the DS vs. Angel argument all over again and Angel's proposed boycott of DS. Too bad.
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The article itself doesn't take anything even approaching a stand against Angel. And how is quoting a statement like, '"It's not going to be 'Buffy' and it's not going to be 'Angel,' " a source said, adding quickly, "although we love both of those shows,"' anti-Angel?
I love Angel, and as I've said, I hate to see it go. But it's looking more and more like some of the Angel fans need to seriously limit their caffeine intake because, when it comes to the subject of DS on the WB, they're bouncing off the walls with very little provocation...
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The article itself doesn't take anything even approaching a stand against Angel. And how is quoting a statement like, '"It's not going to be 'Buffy' and it's not going to be 'Angel,' " a source said, adding quickly, "although we love both of those shows,"' anti-Angel?
I love Angel, and as I've said, I hate to see it go. But it's looking more and more like some of the Angel fans need to seriously limit their caffeine intake because, when it comes to the subject of DS on the WB, they're bouncing off the walls with very little provocation...
I could not agree with you more MB!
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Now let us all pray that no one at the WB is stupid enough to schedule the new DS in the old Angel time slot.....or there will surely be throngs with torches and pitchforks in the streets. ::)
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I saw the WB DS mentioned in a thread on an X Files board tonight and, whereas a few weeks ago in a different thread there were a few people blaming the new DS for Angel's demise and had no interest in watching it, in this new thread tonight several people commented that they were looking forward to checking it out -- cool!
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I'm sure I'm not the only fan out there who'd rather not see Collinsport overrun with Klingon-vamps (as I call them).
LOL! [lghy] I DO agree!!
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As for Frid, it's no surprise whatsoever that he declined an appearance.
Nope, no surprise. But I'd LOVE to know what role he was offered. Any ideas? (That you're at liberty to share?) (MB? Darren G.?) ( ;) :D)
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Now let us all pray that no one at the WB is stupid enough to schedule the new DS in the old Angel time slot.....or there will surely be throngs with torches and pitchforks in the streets. ::)
That would be fabulous. LOL. How's that old saying go? There's no such thing as bad publicity? ;)
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Won't hear a peep from me....
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Frid wasn't offered a role per se; just a cameo appearance as an "ominious" figure who warns Victoria Winters on the train about going to Collinwood.
Nancy
I'd LOVE to know what role he was offered.
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Now let us all pray that no one at the WB is stupid enough to schedule the new DS in the old Angel time slot
The thing is, though, that slot following Smallville would be the ideal place for DS. Almost any other slot would come with drawbacks that one doesn't have...
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OK - first off, vw, I have to say that I am SOOOOOO jealous of you having met Robia LaMorte. I loved Jenny and have yet to get over her death back in Season #2 of Buffy - and that scene when Giles discovered her body. "Passion" ranks as one of my all-time favorite Buffy episodes.
In person, she is just a doll. So, pretty too! I hope she'll get that role she was talking about on General Hospital.
As for your talk with Verheiden, very interesting and thanks for informing us. I love your advice that long time fans should keep an open mind (but then, I suspect you might know that I would [wink2]).
Yes, I figured you would.
Per a few other remarks:- Please no KLS on the show! Well, at least not in the first season (if there is one). The WB DS should create its own identity before any former DS stars might be brought in!
I agree. It should have it's own look and feel.
- David Fury as a potential writer? I respectfully disagree with that idea. In fact, the mere idea of it practically sends me into cardiac arrest!!
Destiny was one of my favs on Angel this season. He co-wrote that with Steve DeKnight. I think the writers are fantastic. I also did mention Jamison Selby as a potential writer for the team. It would certainly work for me to see him at events!
- Shame on you for not asking what house would stand in as Collinwood! :( (But honestly, I doubt he might have told you because they most probably wouldn't want curious fans showing up.)
In the end, it didn't matter to me. They could use pretty much anything as far as I'm concerned. I think the acting, story-writing and dark quality are more important then the house. Houses can always be made more creepy with special effects, etc. Also, now I'll get some surprises.[/size][/color][/FONT]
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OK - first off, vw, I have to say that I am SOOOOOO jealous of you having met Robia LaMorte. I loved Jenny and have yet to get over her death back in Season #2 of Buffy - and that scene when Giles discovered her body. "Passion" ranks as one of my all-time favorite Buffy episodes.
Hopefully, she'll get that part on General Hospital...but how cool would she be as Dr. Julia Hoffman in the new WB Dark Shadows?
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how cool would she be as Dr. Julia Hoffman in the new WB Dark Shadows?
Oh, why did you have to go and put THAT idea in my head? Now almost anyone they actually cast could be disappointing to me. :'(
[wink2]
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I'm still getting caught up with the posts here, but I have to say, I'm getting psyched about this. I'm not familiar with all of the actors being cast, but the ones I do know are pretty solid talentwise.
I like the idea that they're going for with episodes that can be watched separately but with the overall arc.
This could really work.
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it's looking more and more like some of the Angel fans need to seriously limit their caffeine intake because, when it comes to the subject of DS on the WB, they're bouncing off the walls with very little provocation.
I just read that Jeffrey Bell, a writer and executive producer on Angel, will be working on ABC's Alias next season. I wonder how the over-caffeinated crowd in the Angel camp will blame that on DS? ::)
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Oh, why did you have to go and put THAT idea in my head?
OHMYGOD, I love Cassandra_B's idea too!
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Frid wasn't offered a role per se; just a cameo appearance as an "ominious" figure who warns Victoria Winters on the train about going to Collinwood.
Omigod, Frid would have been fantastic in a part like that!!
I almost feel more disappointed now, knowing that the producers specifically had Mr. Frid in mind for this cameo. I don't think this would have been stunt casting; for one thing, this would probably appear in the first few minutes of the show, so older viewers wouldn't be on pins and needles for half the show waiting for him to show up. It's not a vampire role, and I thought THAT was Mr. Frid's real disinterest in revisiting Dark Shadows. Finally, he does the menacing thing s-o-o-o well; as a casting choice based on acting alone, I doubt anyone else will do it better than he would have.
I know Mr. Frid has no obligation to satisfy the decades-old, insatiable clamor of fans ... but it's just that he would have added a real element of class ... and ominousness ... to the scene.
In a broader, non-DS context, I feel the world of film and TV really blew it in not offering this very original actor a wide choice of roles. What I wouldn't give to see more of his talent in film or TV today. So even the DS cameo would have been a plus.
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My two cents as follows:
1) I'm really disappointed that JF won't be making a cameo appearance. If he did just the one, we'd find a way to demand that he come back and do a 2nd one and so on. He's smart to refuse right away.
2) The article talked about 'the new DS not being your mom's DS'! OMG...I'm that mom who the new DS is not being produced for. :'( No one cares about or values my imput.
3) The house they do use is truly only important to the old time fans. We developed an attachment to it. The youngsters will develop attachments to various aspects of the show on their own. (But it would be unseemly to see palm trees in on the estate ::)).
4) The DS board watchers are here looking for clues on what made the original DS tick. What has inspired such long-term fan adulation. I can tell them, you need to produce a show that people will love, care about what happens to the characters and rush home to see or don't make plans on the nights that it's on. Nothing unusual about that. But what is that mysterious something that DS had that today's television just can't match?
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It's not a vampire role, and I thought THAT was Mr. Frid's real disinterest in revisiting Dark Shadows. Finally, he does the menacing thing s-o-o-o well; as a casting choice based on acting alone, I doubt anyone else will do it better than he would have.
I know Mr. Frid has no obligation to satisfy the decades-old, insatiable clamor of fans ... but it's just that he would have added a real element of class ... and ominousness ... to the scene.
In a broader, non-DS context, I feel the world of film and TV really blew it in not offering this very original actor a wide choice of roles. What I wouldn't give to see more of his talent in film or TV today. So even the DS cameo would have been a plus.
The reality is that Frid really had no interest in doing movies or television. He had not pursued that kind of work prior to Dark Shadows but some did come to him of course back in the days when so much of television was done in NY. My understanding is that while actors certainly wanted the more profitable work available in film and TV, some just didn't go for it. As Frid has said himself so many times, he is a "dillitente" (I know I spelled that wrong) actor and basically has always wanted to do what he wanted to do and when he wanted to do it. I know myself that anyone who loves stage work can get really turned off by film and TV work as so much of it is hurry up and wait for your shot. I can easily believe Frid just had no interest in that kind of professional life. It's too bad for fans there is not more of him available on film or videotape, I agree. :-
Since the 1980s, I know Frid was offered good roles in films that turned out to be such hits but he wanted to focus on his one man show. Theater is what he loves to do. And now being almost 80 (and since retiring in 1994) he likes tooling around with various hobbies and civic activities, including his website. The spotlight just doesn't appeal to him at all whether it is DS related or not. This is a guy for whom the whole celebrity thing got old real fast. He is an actor who very much appreciates the fans but appreciates his privacy and the quiet of his retirement years even more.
Nancy
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....... But what is that mysterious something that DS had that today's television just can't match?
It had the only thing that ever matters in a story....characters we cared about in situations that made us worry for them. If you care about what happens to a character you have to keep coming back to see what happens next. If you don't care about the character, it doesn't matter how witty, how good looking, how brilliant or how evil the character is.....you won't tune in to see what happens to them.
The real alchemy is how you make an audience care about an entire cast of characters. The equation's simple.....but exquisitely difficult to pull off.
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I had a nice discussion with Mark Verheiden, Co-Executive Producer of the new Dark Shadows on Sunday, March 28 at the 12th Annual Creation Sci-Fi Summit. Notes of our discussion and pictures are (URL). Note: also contains other materials since it was not an exclusive Dark Shadows convention.
VW, I just took a quick look through your "interview" with the new DS writer, and I have to say this is the most encouraging insider information I've seen yet! Thank you!! You did a great "reporting" job!
Mr. Verheiden, and the concept for the new show, sound very promising.
The only tiny thing in the back of my mind is that I hope the new writers will be as literate as they often were on the original series -- especially versed in literature (and not only Gothic literature), as were Art Wallace, Francis Swann, Joe Caldwell, and several others.
The example I always go back to (long-time posters will think me a broken record) -- but it's only one example -- is Louis Edmond's recitation of "Dover Beach" while gazing at Angelique's portrait. Thematic borrowings from Hawthorne ("House of the Seven Gables") in the early months of the series were a subtle influence on the show's concept.
Just one other element that made the original series unique -- and appealing to a higher common denominator.
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I totally agree with MB and Midnite....Robia LaMorte as Julia! Awesome idea Cassandra_B!
As long as later on, if they go into the past, she's not cast as Crazy Jenny! ::)
Ok, I'm bad.
Always, Minja [coolbrows]
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Frid wasn't offered a role per se; just a cameo appearance as an "ominious" figure who warns Victoria Winters on the train about going to Collinwood.
Thank you, Nancy!
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Having never heard of Robia LaMorte, I figured I better look her up. Unfortunately, the imdb didn't have a photo. Also, between the TV guest appearances and movies, there's nothing listed more recent than 2001.
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to be contrary to everone else. . I think that could've been interesting. . but then again, i'd hold out to see what kind of show this turns out to be. . .
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Having never heard of Robia LaMorte, I figured I better look her up. Unfortunately, the imdb didn't have a photo. Also, between the TV guest appearances and movies, there's nothing listed more recent than 2001.
Josette, you won't find anything more recent than in victoriawinters' writeup here (http://victoriawinters.net/grandslam/breakfast.htm), top right photo. [wink2]
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Visit www.collinwood.net to learn of the new(ish) location for Collinwood...
It looks like MB's got a nice coincidental birthday present ;)
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Yes, I am happy with that choice. As I said in the Dream Collinwood thread, architecturally speaking, Greystone was/is a perfect choice for Collinwood. I do like how a tower is incorporated into a Tudor design like the one used for Stan Hywet Hall, and I'll miss it a bit, but it's also something I can easily live without when both the grounds and interiors of Greystone are so perfect. And from a production standpoint, Greystone still makes perfect sense.
Now, if they go with a similar house-moved-from-England-and-reconstructed-in-Maine backstory, as was the case in the '91 series, I'll be ecstatic. [wink2]
Thanks for the news, Stuart. :)
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I've no problem with Greystone per se; it's certainly got the right look -- although I really hope they don't go the route of just using a different section to represent the Old House. That was a terrible, transparent maneuver in the 91 series that really destroyed credibility in the setting. And I hope they'll work on the angles, lighting, etc., so the place doesn't scream CALIFORNIA! so blatantly.
--Mark
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I'd say that the Old House is being done elsewhere - there's no way they could pack that material and Collinwood's scenes into less than a week of shooting. It's impossible.
TBH, I think we might even see a tower - that'd be very easy to add digitally. Thinking of it, there are lots of nifty digital fixes they could do... There's a walkway on the house that overlooks the vista of Los Angeles that they avoided showing in 1991 for obvious reasons - how amazing would that look with a cliff and the Atlantic dropped in? :)
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I'd say that the Old House is being done elsewhere - there's no way they could pack that material and Collinwood's scenes into less than a week of shooting. It's impossible.
I am not entirely sure what you mean that because there was too much material to be filmed at "Collinwood" in too little time, that it is impossible that they used the other side of the Greystone mansion for The Old House. If they filmed at Greystone at the same time, I do not understand why you strongly believe that they did not use the other side again of Greystone for The Old House. Just a bit curious here. Thanks.
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Judging by how long the shoot is, versus how much time they've spent at Greystone, I don't think it adds up.
If you look at the 1991 pilot, around two-thirds of the material was shot at Greystone... It was officially confirmed to me that Collinwood scenes were shot there when I checked my sources, so call it an educated guess.
Based on my (limited) knowledge of production methods, I just don't see it. Of course I could be proved hideously wrong... who knows?
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Thanks Stuart. I guess we will find out very shortly. BTW that was a great scoop !
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I've no problem with Greystone per se; it's certainly got the right look -- although I really hope they don't go the route of just using a different section to represent the Old House. That was a terrible, transparent maneuver in the 91 series that really destroyed credibility in the setting.
Yes, well, following the WB Studios tour in 2002, Sheenasma and I are still trying to digest that the Duke boys' house and Boss Hogg's house from The Dukes of Hazzard are, in fact, the front and back of the same house on the WB lot. But then you wouldn't know that just from watching the series. ;D
TBH, I think we might even see a tower - that'd be very easy to add digitally. Thinking of it, there are lots of nifty digital fixes they could do... There's a walkway on the house that overlooks the vista of Los Angeles that they avoided showing in 1991 for obvious reasons - how amazing would that look with a cliff and the Atlantic dropped in?
Again, going back to info from the WB Studios tour, this is something that isn't even all that "new" in television shows. The home that was featured as the family residence in the opening sequence of the 80s series Growing Pains was digitally altered. IIRC, the house on the WB lot doesn't have a garage, so it was added on for the opening.
Just, please, for the love of God, no crappy models in the opening of the new DS like they used in 1991. Every time I see that, I think of the bit about Camelot from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. I also think about the opening of Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. ;D
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I really hope they don't go the route of just using a different section to represent the Old House. That was a terrible, transparent maneuver in the 91 series that really destroyed credibility in the setting.
I've actually thought that having the Old House resemble Collinwood made sense. Before moving the actual Collinwood to Maine (OK, actually still Massachusetts, but you know what I mean ;)), the idea could have been to create some bit of it in Maine, so they constructed the front facade to resemble the original house they'd left behind. :)
As Stuart said, his theory about the Old House being a separate location this time around could be "hideously wrong" - but for what it's worth, it also seems to make a great deal of sense. [thumb]
But, of course, time will tell...
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In fairness, it's a beautiful model... it's just lit and shot appallingly. With more sympathetic lighting and dressing, and better lensing, it could have looked beautiful.
Still, as that thing apparently cost $35,000 over a decade ago, let's hope that the bean counters nix any more overpriced doll's houses ;)
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As to the technical wizardry available to do almost anything, I don't know if anyone watched/remembers an NBC miniseries from back in '93 called The Secrets of Lake Success, but they also used Greystone as a location (and it's one of the many shows I'd taped back then). Not unlike Collinwood, the family mansion was located on a cliff, and the way they created that illusion was to add it to an actual location shot, like this:
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/LAKE.JPG)
They had both a day and night shot. A WB DS could do something very similar - or even something far more sophisticated with the advances now available in digital enhancement.
Incidentally, The Secrets of Lake Success, rather than using a pic of Greystone, used one of Seaview in its print ads. How wild is that?!
(http://www.dsboards.com/clw/LAKEAD.JPG)
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Yay! See, it's not difficult... They even added a [crap] tower :)
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I hope they'll work on the angles, lighting, etc., so the place doesn't scream CALIFORNIA! so blatantly.
It really looks like a California mansion in the photos on Stuart's site (courtesy of Bob Issel) -- architecture, building materials, color, foliage, everything. Yet in the photo in the "Dark Shadows - Comparison" thread started by a new poster under "Announcements," Greystone looks like a passable stand-in for Seaview Terrace. Therefore I'd conclude, hopefully, that with lighting, filters, and camera angles we'll have the Collinwood of Maine (and Massachusetts ;) ) ...
I agree that part of the problem with the miniature used in the 1991 opening credits was the lighting, which highlighted the fakiness of the model, and the shrubbery especially looked fakey.
Great "breaking news" reporting by Stuart.
Given that the series has to be filmed in the Los Angeles area, I'm glad Greystone is being used, if for no other reason than that it is one link back to a previous "Collinwood."
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Having never heard of Robia LaMorte, I figured I better look her up. Unfortunately, the imdb didn't have a photo. Also, between the TV guest appearances and movies, there's nothing listed more recent than 2001.
Josette, you won't find anything more recent than in victoriawinters' writeup (URL), top right photo. [wink2]
Thank you, Midnite - I figured she was probably one of the ones on that page! I don't think I see her as a Julia, though!
As to the more recent comment, I was referring to the fact that they don't list anything for her after 2001; it's as though her career ended 3 years ago.
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I don't remember much about the house from 1991, but I'm sure I was satisfied at the time, and the pictures look good!! :)
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A lot of it is down to dressing, grading, lenses. Looking at the 1991 series, there's a lot of times when just framing to avoid the sky would have helped...
Also, the episodes are graded with very high saturation - very typical for the time - but it doesn't help with the sunny vibe. Colour grading is one area which has become a lot more expressive and adventurous in recent years, and that NY Post article suggested that they were going to be very dynamic with colour, etc.
Grade it to look stormy and matte in some ominous skies and it can easily look authentic and very atmospheric.
And add a tower! [clutching at straws]
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Count me in among those of you who hope they make Greystone look less California-ish, more New Englandy (yes, I'm aware those aren't really words -- lol!), more atmospheric, and hoping they add a (realistic-looking!) tower!
Now I have a few questions for any of you who might have an idea. Does anyone know if they will be filming inside of the house as well as outside? If I remember correctly, the interior of the house wasn't in very good shape or something and was not used in the 1991 DS? That was also the reason why the fans weren't allowed inside on Fest bus trips to Greystone? Have repairs been made since then? Hasn't the interior been used for some other (non DS) events in recent years if I remember correctly? Just trying to get straight in my mind what's going on.
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Have repairs been made since then? Hasn't the interior been used for some other (non DS) events in recent years if I remember correctly? Just trying to get straight in my mind what's going on.
Generally speaking, the public is not allowed in the interiors of the mansion. There have been exceptions with the murder mystery plays.
And yes, they did do some renovations in and around the property last year. Our club is scheduled to make a visit in May for our annual picnic. I'll have more up to date photos at that time. I'll also be on the hunt for any stray palm trees.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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The mansion also hosts afternoon concerts that include a tour of the entire first floor. The last one was a few weeks ago.
Anyway, were the "Old House" interiors that were seen in the '91 series a set? I will be so disappointed if the gorgeous black and white flooring was a portable job, ugh.
Thank you, Midnite -
As to the more recent comment, I was referring to the fact that they don't list anything for her after 2001; it's as though her career ended 3 years ago.
You're welcome.
Ah. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I think it's conjecture to judge a career based on an IMDb listing, but regardless of that, no, hers hasn't ended.
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The only Collinwood/Old House sets used in the '91 series were Collinwood's foyer/great hall/drawing room and Barnabas' bedroom. Everything else was shot inside Greystone. That would include all the other bedrooms in both houses, Collinwood's dining room, breakfast room, kitchen, second floor corridor, servant's wing and closed off wing/library, and the Old House's foyer, drawing room, and even the basement. (The basement also doubled as the sheriff's office.)
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.........and Barnabas' bedroom..)
Bedroom? Barnabas had a bedroom? What, pray tell, took place there?
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Bedroom? Barnabas had a bedroom? What, pray tell, took place there?
ALL SORTS of things! [wink2]
(But Barnabas had a bedroom in the original DS' 1795 story. It's just that we never saw it at any other time...)
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So the '91 series also went back in time to the 18th Century....before he was a vampire.......
Got it. ;)
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Ah. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I think it's conjecture to judge a career based on an IMDb listing, but regardless of that, no, hers hasn't ended.
I assumed it hadn't - especially since part of this thread was her hoping to land a particular part. It just seemed strange how they had all of these listings and then absolutely nothing for more than 2 years. :)
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That's the brutal, unpredictable world of show biz!
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So the '91 series also went back in time to the 18th Century
Oh, yes. And unlike in the original series, the '91 series' Barn and Ang did, shall we say, give in to their passions (in Barnabas' bedroom) soon after Ang arrived in 1790 Collinsport - which added a layer of depth to what came later because the audience had something concrete to base their relationship on, as opposed to the original's 1795 storyline where everything between them had only taken place in a Martinique backstory in which events were up for interpretation depending on whose account of events one wanted to believe.
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Well, I must say this is interesting:
Posted: Tue., Mar. 30, 2004, 5:36pm PT
Warners' Teuton pic pact
Tube deal includes upcoming 'Batman,' 'Potter' releases
By ED MEZA, ELIZABETH GUIDER
HOLLYWOOD -- In a sure sign that the German TV market is starting to percolate again, Herbert Kloiber's Tele Munchen will plunk down as much as $220 million over two years for upcoming Warner Bros. movies as well as TV series, animation and library product.[/b]
An interesting follow-up to this article was posted on Variety's Web site today. Basically it questions whether or not Kloiber's bit off more than he might be able to chew by making the deal for hit WB films for TV broadcast in light of Germany's booming DVD market, and for up to a dozen of WB's new and untested shows like DS and the Friend's spinoff, Joey, because most of Germany's TV outlets "cherry pick" the US shows they want to carry.
(I would have posted the article in its entirety, as I had with the previous one. However, I've become fairly disillusioned with posting such articles here only to see them reprinted, word for word, on other DS sites, without any credit being given to the forum. So, from now on, I'll be posting such stuff with greater discretion - and anyone who wants to post the entire article will simply have to pay $259/year for their own subscriptions to the Variety Web site. It's truly unfortunate when the few have to ruin things for the rest - and I'm sorry about that :( - but...)
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Thank you, victoriawinters, Midnite, and MB for all the Greystone info! I didn't know they had filmed so much of the '91 series inside the mansion -- how cool!! Does anyone know if they will be doing the same for the WB DS?
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Article at zap2it.com "WB Picks Up Everwood..." (http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|87459|1|,00.html) takes the position that dramas will have a hard time making the WB's fall season schedule due to the limited available time slots. I think DS will make it!
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MB, Don't feel you have to post the entire article...that's kind of a frowned upon, copyright-wise anyway...
Just put up a link to the article.
And heck, don't pay $259 for a subscription---just take the free two week trial and when it ends resubscribe under different usernames...Friends of mine do it all the time!
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Don't feel you have to post the entire article...that's kind of a frowned upon, copyright-wise anyway...
Just put up a link to the article.
Well, yeah (which is why I made sure I included every possible credit available for each article or even excerpt of an article that I posted) - but it's not likely that the majority of people who read the forum subscribe to Variety's site, so a link is pretty much worthless in that respect. :(
And heck, don't pay $259 for a subscription---just take the free two week trial and when it ends resubscribe under different usernames...Friends of mine do it all the time!
Call me foolish, but I pay. :)
And I'm sure you must have misunderstood your friends. ;) Friends of yours would never do such a thing. [wink2] NO ONE would EVER do such a thing! [b003] Right? [lol3]
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Well, yeah (which is why I made sure I included every possible credit available for each article or even excerpt of an article that I posted) - but it's not likely that the majority of people who read the forum subscribe to Variety's site, so a link is pretty much worthless in that respect. :(
Articles from Variety are available full-text through a number of databases that most public libraries do subscribe to (EBSCO Host MasterFile SELECT, Infotrac OneFile, Wilson). Chances are most people can access these offsite from their public libraries page and don't even know it.
All you need to do is provide a citation 8)
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Check out the news section of http://www.collinwood.net for an interesting hint from Mark Verheiden about Julia Hoffman...
Hmmmmmmm... maybe Julius Hoffman will finally get his day in the limelight? ;)
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Can't wait to hear this casting news!
The Barn, Vicki, Julia triangle is such an integral part of the initial Barn storyline (thanks to Grayson [thumb]) that it would be a shame to see them drop it. So, unless the WB is planning on going the homoerotic route, I don't think we'll see a male Dr. Hoffman.
(Though, that said, if they did, it wouldn't be the WB's first foray into gay or at least gay-leaning relationships. I may have to eat my words - but right now I'm pretty confident I probably won't...)
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I'm sortof hoping that hell will freeze over and dr. hoffman will be a babe.
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I'm sortof hoping that hell will freeze over and dr. hoffman will be a babe.
Well, Robia LaMorte would have fit that bill. But, unless she was fibbing at the Creation Grand Slam Convention, she's got her sights set on a completely different role.
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This just in from Variety:
Posted: Tue., Apr. 13, 2004, 10:04pm PT
WB decides Hu will be in 'Shadows'
Thesp to play physician in '60s remake
By MICHAEL SCHNEIDER
The WB finalized a few last-minute castings Tuesday, adding Kelly Hu ("X2: X-Men United") to the net's "Dark Shadows" pilot, and placing Heath Hyche ("Style and Substance") on the netlet's "Blue Collar" comedy sketch project.
In "Dark Shadows" Hu will play Dr. Julia Hoffman, a physician who soon discovers that Barnabas Collins is a vampire.
Warner Bros. TV and John Wells Prods. are behind "Dark Shadows," which is exec produced by Mark Verheiden, Dan Curtis and Wells. The remake of the classic '60s Goth soap also stars Martin Donovan, Matt Czuchry, Alexander Gould, Blair Brown, Marley Shelton, Ivana Milicevic, Alec Newman and Jessica Chastain.
Hu's other credits include "The Scorpion King," as well as TV series "Martial Law" and "Nash Bridges."
...[/b]
Date in print: Wed., Apr. 14, 2004, Los Angeles
Now the hunt for Hu photos online. ;)
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photos of Kelly Hu on wireimage.com (http://www.wireimage.com/GalleryListing.asp?navtyp=SRH&nbc1=1&str=Kelly+Hu&styp=&sfld=C&sortval=4d&PageNum=1)
(has over 28 pages starting with most recent)
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Check out:
The Unofficial Kelly Hu Fan Site (http://www.kellyhu.net/)
Kelly Hu dot Com (http://www.kellyhu.com/)
(requires Flash)
Ultimate Kelly Hu (http://www.celebrity-fansites.com/stars/kelly_hu/)
Actress Kelly Hu (http://www.freegk.com/hollywood/kelly_hu/1_1.php)
Kelly Hu Photo Gallerry (http://www.actressarchives.com/kellyhu/)
(I'd say you definitely got your babe, MIles. ;))
Celebrity Desktop - Kelly Hu - Wallpaper, Screen Savers, Desktop ... (http://www.celebritydesktop.com/actresses/kelly_hu/)
Kelly Hu (http://www.2tup.com/kelly_hu/)
AskMen.com - Kelly Hu (http://www.askmen.com/women/actress_100/129_kelly_hu.html)
And those are just the first eight sites Google came up with. Apparently she has quite the Web presence and quite the fan base, which can only help the WB DS should it go to series.
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Well, it's not taking long for the news of Hu's casting to pop up on the non-DS sites - I just discovered this (http://comingsoon.net/news.php?id=4281) over on ComingSoon.net (accompanied by a decidedly "interesting" photo).
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I'm sortof hoping that hell will freeze over and dr. hoffman will be a babe.
Oh ye of little faith... ;)
Well, it's certainly a unexpected choice - the classic love triangle is shaping up to be pretty different, that's for sure.
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How funny - I was thinking earlier tonight about asking whether there was any news about a Julia yet, but I figured that if there were, we'd know about it! :)
She certainly is beautiful. I know nothing about her acting, but she could possibly be very interesting in the part. However, I wonder if they are considering a name change. However good she may turn out to be in the role, she just doesn't seem like a Julia HOFFMAN. ;D
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I was just checking Ms. Hu's extensive resume over on the Variety Web site, and her most recent TV appearances all look like ones that, if you didn't catch them the first time around, you're not likely to get a chance to see them because they were on shows that have since gone on "hiatus," which in their cases is the term for "don't expect to see them ever again, but we're not going to tell you that until we 'officially' cancel them." Oh, well. :(
But for what it's worth, here they are:
Episode: Extremist Makeover
Show: Threat Matrix (Series (60 minutes) / ABC / 03/04)
Role:
Date: 01/29/2004
Synopsis: The Team reluctanctly works with an unsure suspect in order to identify three terrorists who underwent plastic surgery and are plotting to blow up a Nuclear Plant in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
Episode: IInadmissible
Show: (Boomtown) (Series (60 minutes) / NBC / 03/04)
Role: (Rachel Durrell)
Date: 10/03/2003
Synopsis: Deputy DA David McNorris is out of rehab and lands in the middle of the Fithian case. He hits a snag when the defense attorney tears apart the cops in the case over the missing diamonds from heist. David's sobriety gets another test when his father shows up and says that he knows Donadoni. McNorris and the police find the missing link that puts Fithian away and brings down Donadoni.
Episode: The Love Of Money
Show: (Boomtown) (Series (60 minutes) / NBC / 03/04)
Role: (Rachel Durrell)
Date: 09/26/2003
Synopsis: When their friends are shot during a robbery, Fearless, Joel, Ray and Tom start their own investigation against department rules. They trace the killers to a mobster that everyone wants to get in prison. However, during their sting, they run into a detective running her own investigations into the bank robbers. They team up to catch the bank robbers during a spectacular heist. Now, it's up to McNorris to get one of the thieves to roll on the mobster.
I never watched Threat Matrix, so I have no idea what her appearance on that may have been like. But I was a big fan of Boomtown, I remember these two episodes, and her part in them. They were the first and second episodes this season, and in the first, Hu, along with Rebecca DeMornay's character, planned a bank robbery (hmmm - is there a theme here? - Marley Shelton's character tried to rob a bank on Karen Sisko ;)). However, after the heist, DeMornay double-crossed Hu's character and shot/killed her. So, she appeared in flashbacks in the second episode during DeMornay's character's trial. They were good episodes. But then, Boomtown was always good...
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the classic love triangle is shaping up to be pretty different, that's for sure.
You know what they say - think outside the box and you often get rewarded. Well, the casting of Hu is definitely thinking outside the box, and pleasantly so IMO. ;) Now I really can't wait to see how things might play out on screen...
Another report: this one from Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=televisionNews&storyID=4820709§ion=news) (which mentions her upcoming appearance in "The Underclassman," which, if it's the film I think it is, is one that's upcoming from Miramax).
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Very true. One of the good things about the casting is that it does force the writers to reapproach the Barnabas/Julia relationship throughout - you can't simply re-do the same thing.
One of the irritating things for me in 1991 was the way the Julia issue is handled. No pair of silly glasses or a severe plait were going to diguise the fact that Barbara Steele was a very attractive woman, yet the scripts just seem to make Barnabas selectively blind...
Frankly, if the 1991 Julia had wanted Barnabas that badly, she could have gotten him - having her do the jealous overdose thing (note for jealousy, not because of anything plausible like Woodard's death?!?) severely diluted the character, I think...
I think you could have a very interesting choice for Barnabas if handled right - that between regaining the lost past that Vicki/Josette represents, versus the new possibilities and hopes that Julia and the present day holds.
With an open mind, the possibilities are endless.
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(has over 28 pages starting with most recent)
Thanks Midnite for the link. At first glance I almost thought she resembled Catherine Zeta Jones, especially wearing the white dress on page one. I can't for the life of me picture her playing Julia though. ??? I guess only time will tell.
Cassandra
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I agree with MB that this is excellent outside the traditional box thinking. . .I'm glad they decided to add some diversity to the cast. . .She is beautiful and only 5 years younger than Grayson (said she was. . hee hee). And unlike so many others (on other boards), I'll reserve judgement until i see her take on "julia hoffman". .
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She certainly is beautiful. I know nothing about her acting, but she could possibly be very interesting in the part. However, I wonder if they are considering a name change. However good she may turn out to be in the role, she just doesn't seem like a Julia HOFFMAN. ;D
I saw on the IMDb that Ms. Hu has several times played characters with Euro-sounding surnames (including her role on "Boomtown"). And she is of Chinese, Hawaiian and ENGLISH descent. Maybe the WB's Dr. Hoffman will have a similar background.
That said, Kelly Hu really is a stunner. I totally remember her from X-Men 2, and she was rather formidable in that role. Given her looks and some of the the ass-kicking roles she's played, maybe they'll play up the strong, independent side of the Dr. Julia Hoffman character. A woman like that might be intimidating or off-putting to the 18th century-raised Barnabas, which would add an interesting twist to the Julia/Barnabas relationship. I think Frid's Barnabas found Hall's Julia too forward and assertive as well, but that was somewhat subtextual.
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Her Father could've been a German or Austrian dude (or of descent). . .and her mother Chinese/Hawaiian. .this s the Melting Pot for heaven's sake or tossed salad to quote others.
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. I think Frid's Barnabas found Hall's Julia too forward and assertive as well, but that was somewhat subtextual.
subtext? didn't He outright tell her that he didn't care for her ways and that men of the 20th century might accept it but he wouldn't. . . [argue]
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Does anyone else here find the casting of an Asian woman as the doctor/scientist a bit .....stereotypic?
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Perhaps, Rainey. But in the realm of DS, this is earth shattering casting (though not because of her ethnicity - but because of her "babe factor"). I can pretty much guarantee that some corners of DS fandom have gone apoplectic over it. ;)
Hu's casting is being treated as big news on some Web sites. For example, it's the first time any DS casting news has garnered a headline (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-04/14/09.00.tv) on Sci-Fi's site. (All other mentions have been in their news briefs.) But her involvement with X-Men is probably more responsible for that than anything...
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Does anyone else here find the casting of an Asian woman as the doctor/scientist a bit .....stereotypic?
No more stereotypic than the casting of Caucasians as the rich family with the house on the hill. ^-^
And yeah, Julia99 - it's come back to me...do seem to remember that Barnabas had a hissy fit with Julia early on regarding her assertive 20th century attitude. It was hilarious, and something that always informed my observations about their interactions from that point on. Perhaps that's why I remembered it as subtext.
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Posters, to avoid any further need of editing, please keep in mind that the words you choose may be inflammatory to others. Thanks!
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Does anyone else here find the casting of an Asian woman as the doctor/scientist a bit .....stereotypic?
No. Let's not take this too far. . .they went against tradition (DS tradition) and opened up the casting ranks. I think its great.
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Me too! :D
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And yet another report with photo (though one that's far more sedate than the one on ComingSoon.com - but then, almost anything would be [wink2]) - this time on Zap2it.com:
The WB Hides Hu in 'Dark Shadows' (http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|87530|1|,00.html)
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Ms. Hu's casting is a step in the right direction. As a person of color, this is long overdue!! Still, more needs to be done. How about a black Sheriff Patterson or Eliot Stokes?
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I am so excited about Kelly Hu's casting!!! The news keeps getting better and better. I've posted this on about three boards already but my fingers are crossed even tighter! LOL.
Wiley
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Ms. Hu's casting is a step in the right direction. As a person of color, this is long overdue!! Still, more needs to be done. How about a black Sheriff Patterson or Eliot Stokes?
This is supposed to take place in Maine(one of the whitest states in New England). I can't see a black Sheriff Patterson. However, it would be interesting to have a black Prof. Stokes. Universities tend to have more diversity than the surrounding small towns. I know diversity is important but it would make more sense to change the venue to a more cosmopolitan area like Boston or New York. Small New England towns are not famous for their diversity.
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Though I'm cautiously optimistic, I think it's probably a bit early in the game to comment on whether the racial diversity in the casting is an entirely positive thing.
It's not just a matter of quantity, but of quality. What they do with the characters is as important as who portrays them. To take some of MLK's words somewhat out of context, you have to judge the content of their character, not simply the color of their skin. (That's why I'm not particularly impressed by the original DS having a black nurse or a mute gypsy played by a black actor considering that around the same time Star Trek was able to do much more in the way of incorporating non-white actors in meaningful roles.)
One need look no further than the recent film version of Wild Wild West to see how filmmakers, presumably with the good intentions of rewriting some of the stereotypical ethnic roles associated with the Western genre, can still royally screw it up.
C.
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How about a black Sheriff Patterson or Eliot Stokes?
Ooooooooooh, now I think of it... I don't know how well known he is in the US, but British actor Don Warrington would be so perfect for Stokes.
(http://tweedy.medelle.com/don1.jpg)
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Hmmm...as much as I support making this new DS as different from the original as possible, I must confess to a bit of disappointment regarding the casting of Kelly Hu as Dr. Julia Hoffman. I should look for more photos of her on the web because in the one photo I have seen, she did not look nearly old enough to play a doctor. A medical student, yes, but not a doctor. I think it could hurt the character's credibility if the actress looks too young.
Of course, I'm sure most of my apprehension is caused by my Graysonian leanings. For me, the Grayson-Julia connection is the strongest of the actor-character connections on the original DS, so it's hard for me to imagine anyone other than a red-haired theatrical diva in the role. :)
On the other hand, I think it is terrific that the creative team behind the new series is going in a different direction with regards to casting. For the new DS to work, it has to be fresh and not merely an attempt to recreate the original. The casting of Kelly Hu is certainly a good sign in that regard. Being completely objective (or as objective as one of Grayson's Legion can be), this casting decision could turn out to be the best thing for the series.
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I would comment on the casting of Kelly Hu but I'm too busy convulsively rushing for the liquor as a result.
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I should look for more photos of her on the web because in the one photo I have seen, she did not look nearly old enough to play a doctor. A medical student, yes, but not a doctor. I think it could hurt the character's credibility if the actress looks too young.
Believe it or not, Kelly Hu is 36. Not old by any stretch of the imagination, but old enough to be a full-fledged doctor. ;)
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I don't know how well known he is in the US, but British actor Don Warrington would be so perfect for Stokes.
Your picture got me curious so I checked his resume on Variety's Web site. Unfortunately, his only TV appearance over here seems to have been in "Arabian Nights," a miniseries that ran in two parts on April 30th and May 1st of 2000. (I didn't watch it.) And of the five theatrical films listed (Babymother - Released: March 17, 2000; Lighthouse - Released: February 4, 2000; Dead Of Night - Released: January 1, 1999; Tube Tales-Steal Away - Released January 1, 1999; Hamlet - Released December 25, 1996), the only one I can place is Kenneth Branagh's version of Hamlet. (Though, again, I didn't see that either.) But the way he appears in that picture definitely makes me think that, if the pilot goes to series, and if they were to decide to use a Prof. Stokes character, you could be on to something...
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A copy of this article from The Hartford Courant just showed up in my e-mail (I have relatives who live in CT ;)). Nothing new so far as DS is concerned, but it's worth a read to size up the potential competition:
Primed For Prime Time
Familiar Faces Populate Pilot Episodes Of Shows Bidding For Spots On Fall Prime-Time Schedule
April 15, 2004
By ROGER CATLIN, Courant TV Critic
It's the reality shows that are bunching up at the top of the ratings. But networks continue to show hope for scripted shows - especially at this time of year. Pilot episodes for more than 100 proposed new series are being completed this month as part of the annual effort that will result in rosters of new fall shows.
Only about a third of them will make it; a few others may be held for midseason replacements. All the others will disappear.
And while some new shows are a lock for the fall, including a fourth version of "Law & Order"; a third "CSI," set in New York; and the "Friends" spin-off "Joey," here's a look at some other pilots that may or may not fly into fall schedules:
Actors new to series TV: Macaulay Culkin is featured in a proposed NBC comedy about a brother and sister reunited after growing up in different foster homes. Jeff Goldblum is a financial consultant in therapy, also for NBC. Lewis Black of "The Daily Show" stars as a high school principal in a proposed ABC sitcom. Chris O'Donnell stars in the CBS comedy "The Amazing Westerbergs." Ricki Lake stars as a single mom who runs a bar in a new project from the creators of "Cheers," for CBS.
Marissa Jaret Winokur, the Tony-winning star of "Hairspray" on Broadway, will join French Stewart, Laurie Metcalf and Brenda Vaccaro in "The Furst Family" for ABC, an adaptation of the British hit "The Royale Family."
A more visible British adaptation will be the U.S. version of the acclaimed import "The Office." Steve Carell of "The Daily Show" is in the version by NBC, who fumbled the Americanization of "Coupling" last season.
Nick Lachey and Jessica Simpson, whose variety show drew 11.4 million viewers Sunday, star in separate ABC projects. He's in "Hot Mom," starring Gina Gershon as a wedding planner; she's in an untitled sitcom about a pop star turned TV newsmagazine reporter.
Odd jobs: Besides "Hot Mom," wedding planning is the business in the ABC drama "DeMarco Affairs" starring Selma Blair and Sabrina Lloyd.
Another rising business in TV pilots is nannies. Gerald McRaney returns in a comedy called "Commando Nanny" for The WB. A drama about nannies in upscale New York, "Gramercy Park" features Samaire Armstrong and Milo Ventimiglia.
NBC's proposed "D.O.T.S." might be the first comedy about meter maids. That network's "Hub," with Heather Locklear, is a drama set behind the scenes at a major airport.
More cops: There's no shortage of crime and mystery solvers amid the pilots. "Keen Eddie" star Mark Valley returns as a private eye in "Harry Green Plus Eugene" for ABC. NBC's "City of Dreams" is a Jerry Bruckheimer-produced private eye saga starring Jimmy Smits. Stanley Tucci is the private eye in Brooklyn in the CBS drama "The Webster Report." Sarah Wayne Callies is the star of "The Secret Service" for ABC. And Fox's "Johnny Zero" is about an ex-con who is a private investigator.
NBC's proposed cop show "Hawaii" comes without the 5-0 in the title. CBS' "Wanted" is about cops in L.A. with Scott Glenn and Yancey Arias. And "Blind Justice" on NBC is, yes, about a seeing-impaired cop.
People from other fields can help solve crimes in pilots, such as an MIT mathematician, as in CBS' "Numbers" or a suburban mom who is a psychic on NBC's "Medium," starring Patricia Arquette. UPN is also developing a series about a teen who works at her dad's detective agency. And a proposed UPN drama about lesbian private investigators is called "Nikki and Nora."
Familiar faces: Stars who made their name in earlier hit series are trying new ones. John Goodman stars in the Chicago family sitcom "Center of the Universe" for CBS. Henry Winkler is in the cast of NBC's "Beverly Hills SUV," a comedy about a dealership. Rob Reiner heads "Everyday Life," about a family of therapists for NBC. Caroline Rhea stars in ABC's proposed "Plan B" about a single working mother. Jennifer Love Hewitt is featured in an untitled ABC comedy about a sports. Tim Daly of "Wings" returns for "Eyes," about a risk-management firm, for ABC. Jane Krakowski is a culinary-school grad in "Taste" for CBS. Andy Richter stars in a sitcom about teen quintuplets for Fox. Jenny McCarthy tries another comedy, "The Bad Girl's Guide," for UPN. Aisha Tyler stars in her own workplace comedy for CBS about moving from fashion to the corporate world.
More stars? Felicity Huffman and Teri Hatcher are among the "Desperate Housewives," a drama for ABC. Robert Forster, most recently with "Karen Sisco" returns in CBS' "Bounty Hunter," heading a father and sons manhunting firm. Dean Cain returns as former Yankees batboy in "Clubhouse" for CBS. Rob Lowe tries again in CBS's "Dr. Vegas," as a casino physician. Christine Lahti stars in the political drama "Jack & Bobby" for The WB. Barbara Hershey returns on "The Mountain" for The WB.
Kim Delaney stars as a witch and single mom in "Sudbury" for CBS. A male witch is the protagonist of Fox pilot "Spellbound." And Kerr Smith plays a record store owner who talks to the dead on the UPN drama "Silver Lake," also starring Sandra Bernhard. And there's a comedy set in a record store too: "Vinyl Haven" on CBS.
Writers and cartoons: Colin Hanks stars with Sharon Lawrence in a sitcom about Joel Stein's days at Time magazine for ABC; Jason Alexander plays writer and popular ESPN commentator Tony Kornheiser in a CBS project.
With "Father of the Pride," a lock for NBC, five other animated shows are under development, including a new one from "Family Guy" creator Seth McFarlane and an animated version of the controversial comic strip by Aaron McGruder, "Boondocks," both at Fox.
Sons of `24': Time is still a conceit in many of the premises. John Stamos stars in a proposed ABC comedy whose first season is one long first date. Jason O'Mara stars in the ABC project "Countdown," in which a SWAT team responds to emergencies in real time. And Fox's "Ricochet" starts at the end of a police case and works backward.
Remaking TV classics: Ready for an update of "Mister Ed"? They're making it for Fox, with Sherilyn Fenn and Sherman Hemsley in the cast. "The Robinsons: Lost in Space" is another new turn on the classic series for The WB, which is also developing a new version of "Dark Shadows." NBC's vampire-hunting saga is called "Transylvania"
Survivor scripted: Just so they are not left out, producers of reality shows are starting to offer their own scripted series in pilots this season, including Mark Burnett of "Survivor" and "The Apprentice" fame, with a saga about shipwrecked students called "Eden" for NBC.
(On a completely unrelated to DS note: shame on Mr. Catlin for not mentioning Buffy/Angel alumnas Alyson Hannigan's and Charisma Carpenter's pilots - both have sitcom pilots in the works. And strange that he didn't mention FOX's "Point Pleasant" either...)
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Your picture got me curious so I checked his resume on Variety's Web site...
He was in a comedy series called "Manchild" with Buffy's Anthony Head, that plays on BBC America. Although visually I think he fits, what impresses me about him is his voice - he has such a spellbinding quality vocally. If I get time later, I'll put up an MP3 of one of his "Doctor Who" audio appearances.
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Hmmm...as much as I support making this new DS as different from the original as possible, I must confess to a bit of disappointment regarding the casting of Kelly Hu as Dr. Julia Hoffman. I should look for more photos of her on the web because in the one photo I have seen, she did not look nearly old enough to play a doctor. A medical student, yes, but not a doctor. I think it could hurt the character's credibility if the actress looks too young.
Well, it can be possible that a very young person (and Miss Hu, despite being in her mid-thirties, looks very young, but then being in your mid-thirties is still "very young", as is being in your mid-forties!) could be a full-licensed doc. Miss Green Bay (WI) is only 22 and is already a fully licensed physician. Yes, she is a "Doogie-Hawser" superbrain, having started college when she was around 13 and finished medical school when she was just out of her teens. And, ironically enough, she looks almost exactly Miss Hu, being a third-generation Korean-American.
Gerard
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I've got a great idea. My brother-in-law is a Chinese Jew. (Yes, he is). He's rather tall and would be perfect as Quentin. They could have him take up with a Moroccan maid. Edward would be outraged and banish him to Tangiers because of the disgrace such a marriage would bring to the Collins family name. Yeah, that's it.
[winkb]
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A few "New Teaser Spoilers" are on www.barnabasundead.com . They're on the Mausoleum page.
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Believe it or not, Kelly Hu is 36. Not old by any stretch of the imagination, but old enough to be a full-fledged doctor. ;)
GET OUT OF HERE!!!
The first thing I wanted to post was how young looking (how do we spell SYT??) she is...36!!!!
Okay...as long as she's not another 22-year old...
The idea of black Prof. Stokes is magnificent!!!!! I geniunely love it!!!
Patti
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It saddens me to see such a poor cast assembled here! There's hardly a single actor here that should have been hired. The WB hopes their poor choices will appeal to modern kids that have no taste. Has anybody noticed that Dan Curtis apparently has no actual connection to this attempted revival? The 1991 Dark Shadows did not offer perfect casting either, but was leagues ahead of this bomb. I guarantee they have driven a stake through this one already. If the pilot is approved, the show will be dead in three episodes for sure!
It's not your grandfather's Dark Shadows!
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Excerpt from
ShadowGram Update #114:
--- FINAL CASTING FOR THE NEW DARK SHADOWS
Hawaiian-born actress Kelly Hu has been hired to play Dr. Julia Hoffman in the highly-anticipated WB pilot for a proposed new weekly DS series this fall. Hu is best-known for her roles in the films "X-2: X-Men United" and "The Scorpion King," as well as TV work on "Nash Bridges" and "Martial Law."
Michael D. Roberts is playing Sheriff George Patterson.
Selected credits: FILMS: Rainman, Suckers, Hitman's Run, The Golem, Heartbreaker. TV: Double Trouble, The District, Arliss, Friends, Beverly Hills 90210, Seinfeld.
--- PILOT PRODUCTION NOTES
Filming on the new DS project, which is a co-production between Dan Curtis Productions, John Wells Productions, and Warner Brothers Television, began on April 2 in Los Angeles at the Warner Brothers Studios in Burbank and will continue until April 23.
The Greystone Mansion in Beverly Hills again serves as the exterior of Collinwood, as it did in the 1991 NBC DS. Some Collinwood interiors also have been filmed at the estate. Currently there are no plans to use Greystone as the Old House, inside or out, as in 1991. Another location is being used for the Old House interiors and exteriors. Ports O' Call in San Pedro, as in 1991, is being utilized as the village of Collinsport.
Because the current pilot is for a one-hour time period instead of two hours as in 1991, a couple of regular DS characters, Maggie and Sam Evans, are not included in the pilot as originally scripted. However, they will appear in future episodes should the series go into production.
There is keen interest on the part of the new DS producers to feature performers from the original 1966-71 DS in special roles if the new DS is made into a series. This is a plan that everyone involved with the new production wants to happen. It therefore is not necessary for fans to write to Warner Brothers, John Wells Productions, or Dan Curtis Productions with such a request.
John Karlen recently visited the set. Jonathan Frid was approached to play a cameo role in the pilot of a mysterious old man on the train with Victoria Winters. Jonathan, who is essentially retired in Canada, respectfully declined the offer, however.
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Michael D. Roberts (Sheriff Patterson) (http://www.scientologie.ch/wis/wiseng/17/275_1.jpg)
(photo appears on http://www.scientologie.ch/wis/wiseng/17/17-10.htm)
IMDb photo of Michael D. Roberts (http://us.imdb.com/gallery/hh/0731426/HH/0731426/mdrhs.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Roberts,%20Michael%20D.)
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Ah, Michael D. Roberts, Mr. Arrechia from Double Trouble! I watched that show all the time when I was in like 4th or 5th grade. ;D
This guy does a lot of character acting, but on this particular series his character had a very deadpan sense of humor. I could see that coming in handy for Sheriff Patterson.
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Some photos of Ports O'Call in San Pedro, recently featured in exteriors for the NBC series Providence:
http://www.seeing-stars.com/ImagePages/PortsOCallPhoto.shtml
http://www.seeing-stars.com/ImagePages/PortsOCallPhoto2.shtml
This same site also has a page devoted to Greystone:
http://www.seeing-stars.com/Live/Greystone.shtml
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I was wondering about Maggie and Sam. Since they had mentioned that the casting for Julia and the sheriff would be coming, but there had been no mention of the others, I thought perhaps some of the new characters would be replacing them.
It's nice to know they will be in it if it goes on.
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This guy does a lot of character acting
Yes, I recognized him the minute I saw his photo. He should make a great Sheriff Patterson. :)
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Great photos, Criseyde!
Here's the Red Car train stopping at Ports O'Call Station. The Village is on the left side of the commercial fishing slip.
http://www.railwaypreservation.com/2003_Ports_O_Call_Station.JPG
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I was wondering about Maggie and Sam.
When you think about it, the pilot is going to feature at least a dozen major characters - that's actually quite a few to introduce in only an hour show. Those unfamiliar with DS might be overwhelmed as it is. ;)
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I hope Sheriff Patterson doesn't get killed off early .. didn't they k.o. him in the 1991 series?
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Sheriff Patterson was never killed off in the 1991 series.
He was highly suspicious of Barnabas though.
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We're all so conditioned by what we're used to. I finally had a chance to show my aunt some of the Kelly Hu pictures. She just said a few times, "She's too pretty to be Julia." :)
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It would be interesting this time if they have Maggie's mother alive.
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From what I read on Friday, the characters of Maggie and Sam Evans will not appeear in the pilot, but will be used later, if the pilot goes to show.
Raholt
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As an infrequent talker, but a 3 yr. or more listener/observer. May I just say that I think any new treatment should be given a chance. Personnally I can't wait for a new story!!
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We're all so conditioned by what we're used to. I finally had a chance to show my aunt some of the Kelly Hu pictures. She just said a few times, "She's too pretty to be Julia." :)
It would be interesting to see Kelly Hu as Julia. I am still new to the Dark Shadows thing. I am currently watching the 1966 season (currently watching the Laura Collins storyline), so I haven't seen any of Grayson Hall but I did see her pics online. Definitely a big contrast.
With Kelly being a former beauty queen, she might bring some new fans to the new DS show and maybe even to the original.
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Well, it can be possible that a very young person (and Miss Hu, despite being in her mid-thirties, looks very young, but then being in your mid-thirties is still "very young", as is being in your mid-forties!) could be a full-licensed doc. Miss Green Bay (WI) is only 22 and is already a fully licensed physician. Yes, she is a "Doogie-Hawser" superbrain, having started college when she was around 13 and finished medical school when she was just out of her teens. And, ironically enough, she looks almost exactly Miss Hu, being a third-generation Korean-American.
sorry Gerard i would not want to have a 22 year MD taking care of me! there is more to
it than can be learned in books and brains. believe some of the "super brains" do not make good MDs.Miss Hu just doesn't seem like Julia but lets see how good of an actor she is!
jennifer
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Michael D. Roberts' casting is mention on the futon critic (http://www.thefutoncritic.com/cgi/gofuton.cgi?action=newswire&id=6541) site today, along with a complete roundup of the cast.
It's interesting that they should include Dennis Patrick in their list of actors who've played Sheriff Patterson in the past - hoDS tends to gets overlooked in these sorts of things...
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Continuing my one-man campaign to get Don Warrington cast as Professor Stokes... please indulge me :)
(http://www.collinwood.net/vids/donwarrington6a.jpg)
Here's an MP3 of Don Warrington in the "Doctor Who" audio play "Neverland" - he's playing a slightly abstract, mercurial figure, but I think there's a lot of qualities here that are very Stokes-like...
http://www.collinwood.net/vids/don.mp3
And, only fair since I've nicked a bit of their CD, encouraged parties can buy "Neverland" here: http://www.doctorwho.co.uk/drwho/bf033_neverland.shtml
I think he's perfect for it :)
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Stuart, I've seen Don Warrington in two or three episodes of Manchild, and I am more than inclined to agree with you. He has the range, he has the gravitas, and his voice is perfect. He would be a fabulous Professor T. Elliot Stokes, and if the opportunity arose, can you imagine what he could do with the parts of Ben Stokes or Count Petofi?!?
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He definitely has that regal James Earl Jones quality about him.
Gerard
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I don't recall how long production of the pilot was supposed to take....have we passed that point? And when does it have to be shown to the network in order to be able to start production in time?
Is it my imagination or have all the "rumours" and "leaks" sources dried up all at once? :-X
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The pilot supposedly wrapped production on the 23rd (though Darren had speculated that it might go longer). The WB will announce their fall schedule on May 18th, so they'd need to see something before then (though Darren felt that the pilot wouldn't be able to complete post production by then, so the WB will most likely get to see a montage of footage or a few completed scenes instead).
I'm sure that once ShadowGram has more info to report on the pilot's progress, we'll be hearing about it. There probably isn't much to "leak" at this point. ;)
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According to an account of Dan Curtis' salute at the Museum of Television and Radio this past Thursday, when asked about the WB pilot, his comment was, "It looks pretty good." Who knows if he meant the show itself looks good or if it looks good to be picked up? (I suspect the former.) But a link to the article is provided in this post on CE/A '04:
Zap2it.com has...
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deleted
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Shooting is finished.
That's for confirming that shooting has wrapped. :)
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In this link:
...
there is another link to an article from which I've copied the following;
CW: Robert Cobert has been your go-to composer since Dark Shadows. Will he be involved with Our Fathers?
Curtis: He will be involved in everything I ever do, including this show. He's the most brilliant composer around, and he's never let me down. What he did on Winds and War was unbelievable. The guy just writes dead-perfect scores.
Does anyone have any professional insight (or an educated guess) as to whether the WB DS project could be considered DC's "anything I'll ever do" enough so that we might expect Mr. Colbert will be doing the score for the new DS?
And for those who know, did the 91 series use any of the same themes and or cues as the 60's series had?
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The 91 series was all Cobert music-many re-orchestrated, expanded and updated pieces from his 60s DS repertoire.
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Mark Verheiden's already commented that it's very unlikely that Robert Cobert will score the series.
It's possible he could oversee a rerecording of the theme tune, but an ongoing weekly series would be a helluva grind for a 79 year old man who's been semi-retired for several years.
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David Fury as a potential writer? I respectfully disagree with that idea. In fact, the mere idea of it practically sends me into cardiac arrest!!
I just read on Sci-Fi's Web site that Fury is attached to NBC's "Transylvania" pilot (which is somewhat based on the movie "Van Helsing," with Hugh Jackman). So, hopefully that will prevent him from being able to have anything to do with the WB DS, should it go to series...
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And speaking of Sci-Fi Wire, here's another report on DC's comment about the WB pilot: Curtis Likes New Shadows (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-04/26/10.30.tv)
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During my brief conversation with Verheiden on Thursday, April 22, he said they were editing material as they were shooting to have it done in time for the brass. Not an exact quote, but the Reader's Digest Version. It was also stated that the last day of shooting was Friday, April 23.
He is the only composer given credit for the 1991 series.
I can't even imagine how he would keep up with a weekly show. There's not only writing out the score, but the orchestration (picking out which notes get played by which instrument) which has to get to the copyist with enough lead time to have the parts copied out, learning the score you wrote and then conducting, etc. (I've only heard of two composers that ever write (wrote) out the orchestration of their scores as they are composing. One was WA Mozart and the other is Linda Dattrell.)
Further, Robert Cobert has no scoring credits since 1998's "The Love Letter". I would find it improbable that he would come out of retirement.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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During my brief conversation with Verheiden on Thursday, April 22, he said they were editing material as they were shooting
So, in other words, PJ Hogan wasn't getting any sleep at all. :D
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Probably not. But, they may have had down days when they were looking for Julia, etc. Any further guess on my part would be speculative since I don't know all the facts of the situation. Plus, don't know that I'd want to know. Still want to be surprised the day it airs, if it does.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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PJ wouldn't have physically done the editing himself, so he should have been able to get a little shut-eye along the way ;)
The editor assembles a cut from the footage, which is then fine-tuned and approved by the director. It's a fairly common practice working on film, particularly with digital editing nowadays.
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PJ wouldn't have physically done the editing himself, so he should have been able to get a little shut-eye along the way ;)
One would certainly hope so - not just for his sake, but for the sake of the quality of the pilot too. :D
The editor assembles a cut from the footage, which is then fine-tuned and approved by the director. It's a fairly common practice working on film, particularly with digital editing nowadays.
Well, yes. :) But there are exceptions. And I'm not saying PJ Hogan is this way because I honestly know very little about him and was making a joke with my previous post. But some directors are extremely hands on and, I suppose, an editor's worst nightmare because I've read accounts of where they'll practically stand over the editor's shoulder, picking which shot from which take they want to use and "supervising" almost the entire editing process.
One suspects, though, that with editing going on while Hogan was shooting, he mustn't be that sort of a director. ;)
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What about the actor who played Giles on Buffy being Professor Stokes?
Patti
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He'd still be playing Giles......
Considering the common themes of Vampires and the Supernatural, and since the target audience would certainly include "Buffy" and "Angel" fans, that actor would simply be too identifiable as "Giles" to portray anyone else.
For the sake of his own career, I hope he finds a juicy villain to play for his next role. [vryevl]
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My speculation was just that...I'm sure they'll have a rough cut ready to show the top brass by mid-may.
I am not sure how networks review pilots for consideration for its fall schedule. For example, the WB pilots for Lost In Space and Jack and Bobby were completed over three weeks ago. Just wondering if the WB will be reviewing their pilots during the same time period or will they see them on an individual basis when a pilot is ready to be reviewed. A decision on said pilots could have possibly already been made.
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Just wondering if the WB will be reviewing their pilots during the same time period or will they see them on an individual basis when a pilot is ready to be reviewed. A decision on said pilots could have possibly already been made.
I'm sure that after a network has viewed each pilot, they probably place it a category that ranges anywhere from "very possible" to "no chance in hell" that it'll make the schedule. But one would hope, anyway, that they don't make a final decision on any pilot, no matter how good or bad, until after they've seen all their pilots so they can make a comprehensive comparison. If that's the case at the WB, the ultimate fate of both LIS and J&B is probably still up in the air...
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deleted
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For what it is worth, the TVTOME website predicts that Dark Shadows will make the WB's fall schedule.
www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/FeaturePage/featureid-113/
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jimbo...THANK YOU.
From your link, I did their search:
http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-22792/
DARK SHADOWS 2004!!!!
:o :o :o :o
WOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks!!
Patti
REPEATING...IT SAYS 2004!!!!!
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jimbo...THANK YOU.
My pleasure.
Again it is only one website's prediction. However, we can always use positive reinforcement. I think DS and Charmed will compliment each other pretty well.
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Double wooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Jimbo, thank you Patti!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D
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For what it is worth, the TVTOME website predicts that Dark Shadows will make the WB's fall schedule.
What's most interesting about their picks is that they fly in the face of the "conventional wisdom" that the WB will only schedule two new dramas - they've picked three (DS, LIS and Podigy (not Jack and Bobby)).
I think DS and Charmed will compliment each other pretty well.
And also for what it's worth, the schedule they've come up with is definitely thinking like a network programmer because, not only would Charmed/DS and Smallville/LIS compliment each other, but so would moving One Tree Hill after 7th Heaven and placing the new drama Prodigy after Gilmore Girls. But personally I'd hate to see a WB DS on at 9pm on Sundays because that's a killer time slot :o in which even a show like Angel, which was an already established series with a wide (for the WB) fan base, struggled when it was there in 2001-2002. A WB DS, like this season's WB Tarzan, would be a brand new show - and trying to establish a new scripted drama there is going to be very, very hard - just look at what happened to Tarzan. The only thing that seems to do well there is reality type programming like High School Reunion and Surreal Life. Though, of course, the WB isn't going to ask for my opinion. [wink2]
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Sunday at 9pm is when HBO shows whatever is their hottest, or newest program. I wouldn't want to have to go up against that. And I wouldn't want to have to choose between a new DS and the return of "Carnivale" either...... ;)
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Sunday at 9pm is when HBO shows whatever is their hottest, or newest program.
Sundays at 9pm is a terrible slot for just so many reasons - that most definitely being one of the major ones.
And I wouldn't want to have to choose between a new DS and the return of "Carnivale" either...... ;)
Well, it wouldn't necessarily have to be an either or - that's why they invented things like VCRs and TiVo. (Though I'm sure you would watch DS and Tape HBO. [wink2])
But seriously, I still say that a WB DS' best chance for survival is to be slotted after Smallville. (Sorry, JW (if you're reading this ;)), but The West Wing isn't the powerhouse that it once was. And though it might be awkward to have two of your shows go head to head, that situation is hardly without its precedent - and the WB has already proven that they can carve out their own niche in that slot. Wouldn't you rather see a WB DS get a fighting chance rather than not have it up against one of your shows and consigned to what could amount to almost certain death on Sundays? And, really, how much of a dent could a WB DS put in The West Wing? As successful as it was on Wednesdays, Angel certainly didn't...) The thing that troubles me is that, on paper anyway, LIS would seem to be a better match for Smallville than DS might be...
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I am not sure how networks review pilots for consideration for its fall schedule.
I just came across this article about changes that have been made to the ABC pilot screening process by the new exec in charge (for those who don't pay attention to such things, this has been a dismal year for ABC ratings wise and several execs have recently been fired or resigned as a result). Though it's not about the WB, I thought I'd post it because it does provide a fascinating glimpse into the pilot screening/selection process:
Posted: Thurs., Apr. 29, 2004, 10:00pm PT
ABC sheds sked scheme
McPherson overhauls pilot screening, scheduling process
By JOSEF ADALIAN
Barely a week into his new gig, ABC Primetime Entertainment prexy Steve McPherson is already shaking up the way the network sets its new fall sked.
McPherson has radically overhauled the Alphabet's pilot screening and scheduling process, implementing a plan designed to result in more feedback from all levels of the net, numerous ABC insiders said. In recent years, the network's sked-setting process was seen as exclusionary, with a small handful of top execs debating the merits of various pilots and sked scenarios among themselves.
What's more, the screening process will begin sooner -- this Monday -- and last for a full week. Because of that scheduling decision, a number of top Disney execs will likely not be at many of the screenings.
Between the National Cable Television Assn. convention and the opening of the Tower of Terror attraction at Disney's California Adventure, execs such as Michael Eisner, Bob Iger and Anne Sweeney will have a number of previous commitments. As a result, they may opt out of many of next week's formal screenings.
Sweeney will likely still be able to catch some screenings in New York, where many of ABC's sales staff will watch the would-be shows. Eisner and Iger may also stop by the screenings or watch DVDs of new shows.
Among the changes implemented by McPherson:
* Mirroring elements of NBC and Fox pre-upfront meetings, shows will be screened by several groups of staffers, with top execs in the same room as lower-level staffers. A group leader in each room will lead feedback sessions after each show.
In recent years, a small number of very senior brass met in one room to discuss pilots, while one or two much larger groups met in separate rooms. Under that arrangement a VP of drama might never have had a chance to give feedback on a pilot to ex-entertainment prexy Susan Lyne.
* After the morning screenings, McPherson will lead a working lunch session with all screening participants to discuss opinions of shows. A similar meeting will be held in late afternoon.
* Assistants will screen pilots separately, but McPherson is expected to seek input from that group each day.
* Scheduling process will be expanded to a full week, with meetings starting May 10. In recent years, sked meetings were crammed into as little as two days.
* McPherson has asked ABC's pilot testing department to cut to the chase when presenting data from focus groups. Charts and graphs will be downplayed in favor of concise descriptions of aud reactions.
One ABC staffer said the changes should result in a better pilot picking process.
"You had an entire company that was divested of the process at the end of the year," the insider said. "People worked hard on these shows all year long, but at the end of the day, they felt no one cared what they thought."
McPherson's changes are no doubt inspired by his previous gigs at NBC and Fox. "They have a much more collaborative system" at those networks, one insider said.
It's expected McPherson will invite screening attendees to be blunt in their assessments of new shows. One insider said the exec wants to make sure senior execs, including himself, aren't stuck in a cocoon when making decisions.
"There could be a project all (the top brass) love but 20 assistants hate," the insider said.
ABC chief in command
Sweeney is said to have signed off on McPherson's plan. That the screenings aren't being planned around the schedule of some senior Disney execs also seems designed to send a signal that, in a departure, the head of entertainment at ABC is now in command of the screening process.
McPherson has had a busy first 10 days in office, a frame that even included an unpublicized whirlwind trip to New York, where he met with ABC sales brass.
An ABC spokesman and McPherson declined comment.[/b]
Date in print: Fri., Apr. 30, 2004, Los Angeles
I must say that it's nice to see that at ABC, at least, it appears that the results of the focus groups' screenings is just one of many factors in the decision making process and that the ABC execs and staffers have complete discussions apart from those results. Though, of course, that's a topic of discussion for an entirely different subject here on the forum, and as such, if anyone would also like to make any remarks about how the focus groups are mentioned in this article, please do so in that topic. Thanks. :)
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Check out www.collinwood.net for the first official photograph from the new production :)
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two actors showcasing the stunning make-up designs created for the project.
Stunning, perhaps. And the make-up *is* completely out of context. And, of course, for months I've been saying we should not jump to conclusions, especially without any facts to go on. But one does have to wonder just how make-up (and extras? or doubles?) like that fits in with the story. Perhaps a dream sequence - or some sort of flashback/memory? (One can only hope!)
However, I'm definitely still going to keep an open mind...
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Dare we hope they gave Johnny the part of the "mysterious old man" on the train who warns Vicky against going to Collinwood?
And I'm not sure why the two "undead" actors come as a surprise....they're certainly a big improvement over poor Jeremiah and his [crazd].........
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the first official photograph from the new production :)
That picture is indeed stunning. Thanks Stuart. Hopefully you will be permitted to post more of them in the near future. John Karlen did not look too frightened. Ha, he is used to battling the evil forces. lol It would be great if he is in the pilot.
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I'm not sure why the two "undead" actors come as a surprise....
Not necessarily undead. I think what suprised me is undead who appear to be wearing 18th century dress. They'd come as no surprise if the pic was taken from an ep dealing with something like the 18th century flashback. But just how undead from the 18th century fit into a present day storyline is what's a bit puzzling.
But as I said, it's best to keep an open mind here, so I am. ;)
they're certainly a big improvement over poor Jeremiah and his [crazd].........
True! :D But then, you shouldn't judge this show by *anything* from the original. For instance, the '91 series' resurrected Jeremiah didn't look at all like his original counterpart. In fact, unlike in the original DS' first 18th century flashback, [spoiler]the '91 series' resurrected Jeremiah jumped to his second "death" from Widows' Hill rather than harm Josette, whom he had kidnapped[/spoiler]
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The bottom line is that, unless one of us is keeping an incredible secret from the rest of us, NO ONE here has a clue how this has been shot. For all we know, the very first scene is all about Barnabas becoming a vampire in the 18th century....the sort of bewildering but powerful opening that startles us, without explaining anything, and leaves us dying to know what's going on.
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For all we know, the very first scene is all about Barnabas becoming a vampire in the 18th century
Well, not if we can believe the spoilers on the barnabasundead site. According to them, the WB pilot begins [spoiler]just as the '91 series pilot and the original DS before it did - with Vicki on the train on her way to Collinsport.[/spoiler] But, of course, that may just be it - at this point, who knows what to believe or even expect? So, perhaps, nothing we see should really be all that surprising...
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I have no idea what those two undead guys mean is happening, but they look awesome! They look like vampire-zombies -- how cool!!!!! LOL! Go for it!! :D :D
(And John Karlen -- how extra cool! Looks like he's having a great time!)
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I couldn't tell from that if John Karlen was necessarily in the pilot. I kind of had the impression that he might have visited the set and posed for the picture.
I also don't think it's necessarily a flashback to a past time. They look as though they've just arisen from a grave. They could easily be characters who died way back when and have come out of their graves in present time.
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Dare we hope they gave Johnny the part of the "mysterious old man" on the train who warns Vicky against going to Collinwood?
I also don't think it's necessarily a flashback to a past time. They look as though they've just arisen from a grave.
You know - it occurs to me that you could both be on to something. IF Karlen does indeed play the mysterious stranger - and IF those extras are in some way used to signify Barnabas' return as part of the depiction of his warning to Vicki - that pic would take on a much greater and far cooler significance than if Karlen had merely dropped by the set and just happened to pose for a pic with a couple of extras (which would otherwise make the pic fairly innocuous).
They could easily be characters who died way back when and have come out of their graves in present time.
On the other hand, let's hope that isn't it. Well, at least that they're not some sort of actual returning "zombies" or some such. That sort of stuff was already a bit over the top when it was done on the original and already well established DS - and having "zombies" actually rising from their graves could easily seem like a bit of overkill so soon in the series when its main focus should be introducing the characters, setting the premise, and dealing with its vampire, who should be the exclusive and front and center "undead" character. After all, I think most of us want a new WB audience to look at DS seriously, not as some bit of camp...
Just MHO. :)
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Karlen looks fantastic.
The BUndead site lists a spoiler about Victoria seeing something terrible on the train, possibly in a dream. These two could certainly be the stuff of nightmares, brrr!
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In the Innovation comic books based upon the 1991 remake, they showed what Barnabas looked like after having been trapped in a coffin with no blood supply for 172 years.
I have to wonder whether one of these guys is meant to be Barnabas as Willie first lays eyes upon him when he cracks open the chained coffin.
I'd also love for Karlen to have been given a part in the new series.
Thanks to Ben Martin for continuing to delight us with his photographic panache, and to Stuart for sharing this on his site.
G.
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In the Innovation comic books based upon the 1991 remake, they showed what Barnabas looked like after having been trapped in a coffin with no blood supply for 172 years.
These guys bear a striking resemblance to my appearance in the morning after having been in bed for a few hours with no coffee supply. ;D
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Regarding the possibility that John Karlen played the "Mysterious Old Man"......I believe that if Jonathan Frid had said yes to their request they would have moved heaven and earth to keep it a secret, (but knowing full well it would be a wildly discussed rumour) just to give the older fans a rush when they spotted him in the opening. But he said no, so there was no harm in letting the fans know that they tried, but it didn't happen.
So, if John Karlen HAS played that part....why would they tell us, if they could keep it a secret? Let us wonder....let us talk about it amongst ourselves...exactly like we are doing right here!!
I'm quite sure that nothing about the taking (or releasing) of that photo was left to chance.
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On the other hand, let's hope that isn't it. Well, at least that they're not some sort of actual returning "zombies" or some such. That sort of stuff was already a bit over the top when it was done on the original and already well established DS - and having "zombies" actually rising from their graves could easily seem like a bit of overkill so soon in the series when its main focus should be introducing the characters, setting the premise, and dealing with its vampire, who should be the exclusive and front and center "undead" character. After all, I think most of us want a new WB audience to look at DS seriously, not as some bit of camp...
Just MHO. :)
JMHO, but zombies rule! LOL! When I saw all the zombies rise out of their graves when I was a kid I thought that was soooo cool!! And I still haven't grown any more mentally mature today! LOL! So as far as I'm concerned bring on all of the undead in any form! Hee hee! ;D
(Gonna maybe duck now -- uh oh. Ha!)
(Unfortunately, though (LOL!), I have to admit, you're probably right, MB, about it being a bit of overkill for right at the beginning of the series. On the other hand, though, it would be cool if, as Gothic suggested, this would be Barnabas when Willie first lets him out of the coffin! :))
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So, if John Karlen HAS played that part....why would they tell us, if they could keep it a secret? Let us wonder....let us talk about it amongst ourselves...exactly like we are doing right here!!
I'm quite sure that nothing about the taking (or releasing) of that photo was left to chance.
Well, given that ShadowGram #101 is going to share the career highlights of the person cast, we all may know soon enough. :)
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Well, given that ShadowGram #101 is going to share the career highlights of the person cast, we all may know soon enough. :)
Oh dear....am I not paying enough attention to those Shadow Grams? [smrtasb]
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I received my ShadowGram today and it names E.J. Callahan as the old man and Nathan Weiss as the boy in the devil costume.
ProfStokes
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zombies in the pilot?it seems to me as if they are trying to cram alot of stuff(and characters)into a one hour pilot.i'm also hoping the new show avoids some of the nonsense of late.o.s.(like zombies)i'd rather it focus on a few characters viewers can identify with and care about(like o.s. first 2-3 years),not a bunch of disposable monsters.
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I received my ShadowGram today and it names E.J. Callahan as the old man
Oh well....it was a fun idea while it lasted.
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I received my ShadowGram today and it names E.J. Callahan as the old man
Oh well....it was a fun idea while it lasted.
Apparently, Callahan is a very busy actor. He's currently appearing in the film Envy, which just opened this past Friday. And you've actually seen him because he appeared as Lean Man in the 9/14/2003 episode of one of your favorite series, HBO's Carnivale.
He was also in the 3/19/2003 episode of Angel. But then, should that surprise us when so many of the actors in the WB pilot's cast have previously appeared in other WB shows?
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And you've actually seen him because he appeared as Lean Man in the 9/14/2003 episode of one of your favorite series, HBO's Carnivale.
Right. Cecil B. DeMille didn't use as many extras in a film as "Carnivale" does.....there are never less than 100 people in any given wide shot. I'm afraid I couldn't identify one of them as the "lean man"....... ::).....guess I'll just have to wait and see.
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Actually, according to the TV Tome Web site, Callahan had a co-starring role in that Carnavale episode, so chances are you would have taken note of him. So far, though, I haven't come up with a photo of him...
(Of course, as a last resort there's always my taped copy of his appearance in that Angel episode...)
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Of course, as a last resort there's always my taped copy of his appearance in that Angel episode...
Well, unfortunately, that isn't an option either. Callahan appears in one of Angel's flashbacks, this time to the 1920s, as a man playing craps on the street (which is no doubt why his character is named Old Craps Man). However, the scene is too dark to get a good screen capture, and he's only on screen for about 5 seconds, anyway. So, unless SG has a picture of him, it looks like most fans might have to wait until the pilot airs (hopefully) to see him...
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I forgot to mention that while I was researching his credits on Variety's Web site, I noticed that E.J. Callahan appeared in the 2001 film Bubble Boy, which also happened to star Marley Shelton. Wonder if they shared a scene? How wild would it be if they did and they've been reunited in the WB pilot? ;)
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Just posted an article in the Focus Group thread that says that the WB has decided to completely drop that practice as part of the process to select its new programs for next season. The first passage I've included in the following link would seem to confirm my contention that focus groups can often have a decided influence on a show's artistic vision. And best of all, the second passage would seem to indicate that the version of the pilot that Wells, Verheiden, DC, Hogan and company deliver to the WB will remain relatively untampered with. Chalk one up for original artistic vision! [thumb]
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It's no surprise that most producers abhor testing as intrusive to the creative process. "The networks always tell you it's simply a 'tool,' but testing has an enormous amount of influence," ...
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But some industry experts also view the WB's decision as an attempt to boost creativity. With less outside feedback, shows are more likely to retain their original DNA and avoid major revamps. That could pay big dividends, since generic, watered-down material is often blamed for viewer flight to cable channels. "This is a gutsy move," says Laura Caraccioli-Davis, a senior vice president at Starcom Entertainment, which buys ad time and is part of Publicis Groupe SA. In a business that is changing rapidly, she says, "you can't keep doing everything the way it has always been done."
Click on the above link to read the entire article...
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zombies in the pilot?it seems to me as if they are trying to cram alot of stuff(and characters)into a one hour pilot.i'm also hoping the new show avoids some of the nonsense of late.o.s.(like zombies)i'd rather it focus on a few characters viewers can identify with and care about(like o.s. first 2-3 years),not a bunch of disposable monsters.
Well, we all have our own opinions of which aspects of the original DS we liked best, and I agree that having characters viewers can identify with and care about is of utmost importance, but I would appreciate not seeing an aspect of the show that I have posted that I enjoyed and clearly, politely marked as JMHO, categorically labeled by someone else as "nonsense."
(Maybe Curtis and company could just edit out the scenes of "disposable monsters" and send them to me! Ha! ;))
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Just a friendly reminder...
Taken from the Forums' Guidlines
3. Debate should be kept on a non-personal basis. Flaming and name-calling will not be allowed. It is never appropriate to attack, criticize, or condemn another poster. Retaliation, sharp reproof and cynicism are to be avoided. Disagreement is a natural occurrence, but as stated above, should be done in a respectful manner. Likewise, these disagreements should not be continued beyond the normal limits of interesting discourse. Argument for argument's sake is not welcome.
4. If a poster feels wronged, slighted, or offended by another poster, these disagreements should be taken up in private e-mail between the posters. These disagreements may also be brought to the forum moderator, if necessary, but members are strongly encouraged to solve these problems among themselves off-board.
Thanks,
dom
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I believe if Frid had taken the role, it would have been heavily publicized to get people to watch the new rendition of DS if only to see what Frid looked like now.
Nancy
Regarding the possibility that John Karlen played the "Mysterious Old Man"......I believe that if Jonathan Frid had said yes to their request they would have moved heaven and earth to keep it a secret, (but knowing full well it would be a wildly discussed rumour) just to give the older fans a rush when they spotted him in the opening. But he said no, so there was no harm in letting the fans know that they tried, but it didn't happen.
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Obviously, Zombies have played a role in the classic Dark Shadows and I would be very happy to see them in the new DS providing the make-up is realistic (so far it looks oh so good) and appear in the proper story context.
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Sorry, dom!! :-X
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Obviously, Zombies have played a role in the classic Dark Shadows and I would be very happy to see them in the new DS providing the make-up is realistic (so far it looks oh so good) and appear in the proper story context.
Thank you, Jimbo! (Love how you put that -- "oh so good!" Hee hee! :D)
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The Barnabas Undead site says that two other series (Jack and Bobby and The Mountain) may be the two hour long shows WB needs to fill its programming.
It also said that the WB may consider a year long schedule with shows alternating week to week. I don't think thats a good idea to get a new show getting an audience.
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The Barnabas Undead site says that two other series (Jack and Bobby and The Mountain) may be the two hour long shows WB needs to fill its programming.
Yes, the full text of that article from Variety is posted here:
Posted: Mon., May 3, 2004, 10:22pm PT
Frog hopping with fall fare
Net likely to pickup 'Mountain,' 'Jack'[/b]
It also said that the WB may consider a year long schedule
Actually, that seems to be the way things are moving. In fact, FOX is already loudly touting the idea with their promos for all the new shows they'll be launching this June.
with shows alternating week to week. I don't think thats a good idea to get a new show getting an audience
It's not really week to week, but shows would alternate in the same time slot. For instance, a few seasons back the WB started out that season with 13 Felicity episodes (wrapping up with a cliffhanger), which then gave way to episodes (I forget exactly how many) of Jack and Jill, followed by the remaining 9 episodes of Feliciity. Something like that is what the WB is thinking of doing again, particularly with its dramas that feature a continuing overall storyline. They feel that sort of practice could garner better ratings than they might otherwise get having one show in a timeslot and breaking up its schedule of new episodes with repeats, as they do during the Thanksgiving and Christmas season and late winter/early spring so that they'll still have new episodes left for the May Sweeps period.
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FYI
This article dated today, seems to suggest that the people involved with the Lost In Space pilot are very confident and/or are oblvious to what is going on with the WB recently, that its pilot will go to series.
http://www.syfyportal.com/article.php?id=1362
For those who care the site also posts a photograph of the new cast.
It just may come down to LIS vs. DS for the final time slot.
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This article dated today, seems to suggest that the people involved with the Lost In Space pilot are very confident and/or are oblvious to what is going on with the WB recently, that its pilot will go to series.
Well, that's not really a surprise - EVERY site is going to say that they're confidant that their show will go to series. It's just the nature of the biz. ;)
It just may come down to LIS vs. DS for the final time slot.
Not that the Futon Critic is by any means the last word on the subject, but for what it's worth (which, given how completely inaccurate he was last year, might not be much), he did say that DS and LIS are each other's only competition.
But as I keep saying, as much fun as it is to read/discuss all these things, don't put too much stock in any of it - good or bad as far as the WB DS pilot is concerned. The so-called "experts" and "insiders" are often dead wrong. As hard as it is, the best thing to do is just prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and wait to see what happens on the 18th...
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Whoa, over 10,000 hits for this topic. Just had to mention that. :D
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Sorry, dom!! :-X
No need to apologize, Mary, but thank you. :) It was big of you to acknowledge the post and I appreciate it. ;)
dom
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No need to apologize, Mary, but thank you. :) It was big of you to acknowledge the post and I appreciate it. ;)
You're welcome, dom, and thank YOU! :)
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[For instance, a few seasons back the WB started out that season with 13 Felicity episodes (wrapping up with a cliffhanger), which then gave way to episodes (I forget exactly how many) of Jack and Jill, followed by the remaining 9 episodes of Feliciity.
As far as new shows are concerned, the Jack & Jill example is probably not the archetype for success the network execs are going for. Splitting a semii-established show's season (in this case Felicity) doesn't do as much harm as splitting a new show (J&J). The odds of people coming back some months later is slim unless they're ardent followers of the timeslot/network to begin with. I don't think Jack & Jill survived season 1 part 2. Of course it's just one example and it could've been destined to fail from day 1, but if I'm watching network television a show must be doing *something* right.
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Well, here's a flattering ( :- ) excerpt from a new article about this year's pilots:
But British brilliance isn't the only thing the networks are trying to replicate: American mediocrity is also up for grabs. Fox is remaking "Mr. Ed" ' and the WB is retooling "Dark Shadows" ' and "Lost in Space." '
The author claims the article is a "not too cynical" survey of the various pilots. Hmmm. Am I the only one who wonders what he might have said about DS had he actually been trying to be cynical? ::)
But anyway, you can read the entire article here (http://u.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,216~24311~2126338,00.html).
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I don't think Jack & Jill survived season 1 part 2. Of course it's just one example and it could've been destined to fail from day 1
Actually, the season that Jack and Jill shared a timeslot with Felicity was its second. And the major reason that season was its last was because stars Ivan Sergei and especially Amanda Peet (who was having great success on the big screen with The Whole Nine Yards) were more interested in moving on to "bigger and better things." According to Entertainment Weekly's 2001 television season wrapup chart, J&J's viewership had remained on a par with where it was during the first season, so the decision to air it in between blocks of Felicity didn't really effect it one way or the other. And as for Felicity, airing it in two virtually uninterrupted blocks helped it enormously because it saw its viewership climb 30% from 3 million to 3.9 million.
If the WB is really serious about instituting the practice of shared timeslots again, that *could* be good news for DS because it would allow for a much greater chance that it might get picked up.
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I stand corrected. Maybe it is the wave of the future.
either way, of course, you will not convince me it was a good idea as *I* (ya know, the viewer who matters ;)) lost track of the show.
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*I* (ya know, the viewer who matters ;)) lost track of the show.
Well, I definitely agree that when an already established show's next season's debut is delayed because it's going to share a timeslot with another show, a network certainly takes a risk that the part of the audience who may not keep apprised of network experiments like that will possibly think the show has been canceled. Perhaps the WB might have done more to publicize the fact that Jack and Jill would be back on later in the season. And if they do decide to go with timeslot sharing again, I suppose one would hope that they'd provide a better explanation of how it would work so that the audience wouldn't miss a show's return.
That being said, timeslot sharing just might turn out to be the wave of network TV's future because the WB isn't the only network considering it. Stuart would probably be better equipped to discuss the subject, but I believe English television has been doing it for years. Unlike American series, where the norm is to make 22 episodes a season, some English series will often do only 6 or so - and it may even be a year or more before the next batch of episodes appears.
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That being said, timeslot sharing just might turn out to be the wave of network TV's future because the WB isn't the only network considering it. Stuart would probably be better equipped to discuss the subject, but I believe English television has been doing it for years. Unlike American series, where the norm is to make 22 episodes a season, some English series will often do only 6 or so - and it may even be a year or more before the next batch of episodes appears.
This practice seems to often result in rather high quality work. Case in point, the most recent "Prime Suspect" entries with Helen Mirren.
Don't some U.S. shows follow this on occasion, too. Possibly "The Guardian"? The danger of losing track of the show is very real, though.
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The Guardian was just given a brief hiatus. I forget whether they particularly wanted to try the replacement (I forget what they had in that slot) or whether it wasn't doing well enough and they wanted to rest it. They were definitely committed to finishing this season, and it's said to be on the bubble for next season, and it will be announced in a couple of weeks whether or not it's to continue.
They gave it a conclusive-enough ending for it not to be a cliffhanger if it's not picked up, but still plenty of possibilities to continue if it is.
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If memory serves me, all of the "Prime Suspect" mini-runs were self-contained stand-alone works with resolutions at the end. You hoped there would be more, but if there weren't, at least you wouldn't be wondering who-done-it.
"Wiseguy", on the other hand always featured multi-episode story "arcs" which had conclusions to one "case" before it moved on to the next one....but there were no long breaks between arcs...they segued right to the next one in the following week's episode. I don't think I remember ever hearing the term "story arc" before that show.
And now we have the multiple HBO series that go for very long periods between production segments....and audiences seem to have no trouble remembering and finding those each time they return, even after more than a year's hiatus, as in the case of "The Sopranos". The trick here, tho, is that all of those shows are very popular, very successful, (by cable standards) and have loyal fan bases that are willing to wait. A show with mediocre numbers and not much "buzz", in the sea of network offerings, can't really expect that to happen.
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The barnabasundead site is reporting that they've received two unrelated e-mails claiming that the WB will not be picking up the DS pilot. However, they don't say who the e-mails were from or how credible the sources might be - a fact which already has at least one person calling into question the site's credibility for reporting the news without explaining its validity.
Who knows, it might very well be true. But...
(yes, I'm back on my soapbox [5323])
...I have to agree that not citing the sources definitely calls the info into question. Purely speculating (but with past experience with situations in which things are supposedly leaked in DS fandom to base it on), perhaps the reason the sources are not cited might be because they've requested they remain anonymous for the very reason that they're not 100% sure of their info (otherwise, why not just go on record and be done with it?), in which case, if that was stated or even implied in their e-mails, barnabasundead should have sat on their report until it had actual confirmation one way or the other. Reporting something in this fashion generally accomplishes nothing more than stirring up fandom in the worst ways possible.
I can definitely empathize with their desire to get the news out there, but still...
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MB, first I wanted to say that I really like your board and no offense is meant by my commentary here. I think it's great and I'm sorry I didn't say so earlier.
But... I didn't particularly appreciate your comments regarding the "credibility" of my website. Why call something into question that you're not familiar with at all? Would I purposely post something wrong? No. I'm hoping I just took things the wrong way and you're not going on site-bashing. :'(
The reason the two unrelated e-mails' sources were unnamed is because, as I said on the site, I don't know how true it is myself. It could very well be that Source #2 heard from the same person that e-mailed me this morning, in which case it could be one person making a hoax. I posted the information so it's out there IN CASE it is true, but it is clearly marked as rumor. I can't just wait for confirmation from someone, because no one that I have talked to in association with the new show is allowed to share much of anything. (Though hopefully they can send a "you're wrong" e-mail)
Source #1 was someone who asked to be anonymous. #2 was another website - scifi2k.com if you want to be precise. Could be #1 contacted #2. Either way, I wanted to put it out there that the rumor is out there, instead of just sweeping it under the carpet and acting shocked if it does end up being true later. I don't want it to be for real, and I hope it's not.
Just please don't be a hater. You don't know me or my site and if you had a problem with it, I would have much preferred you contacted me via e-mail rather than just seeing what you saw and then rolling your eyes about it for all to see. Instead, you use your position as someone people respect to badmouth it, and if people see MB doesn't like it, (and they do respect you very much), therefore, they'll start rolling their eyes as well. Is that what you want? Is that very mature?
Anyway, I hope my reply doesn't end up getting deleted now or gets me immediately banned, 'cause I do think your board is great. But I did want to be able to defend myself and the Barnabas Undead site. Thanks for your time.
-- Craig
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I didn't particularly appreciate your comments regarding the "credibility" of my website.
It wasn't actually my comment - I was merely referring to a post that's been made on your site in connection with the report.
Why call something into question that you're not familiar with at all? Would I purposely post something wrong? No. I'm hoping I just took things the wrong way and you're not going on site-bashing. :'(
Truly, I'm not bashing your site - only that particularly report - or rather the way in which the report was presented. One would hope that you wouldn't purposely report inaccurate info - and I honestly believe that was nowhere near your intent. But I still stand by the opinion that reporting info without citing the validity of its source is at best an unfortunate mistake.
The reason the two unrelated e-mails' sources were unnamed is because, as I said on the site, I don't know how true it is myself.
I wanted to put it out there that the rumor is out there, instead of just sweeping it under the carpet and acting shocked if it does end up being true later. I don't want it to be for real, and I hope it's not.
As I said, I can certainly empathize with wanting to get the news out. But at the same time, reporting info, even if it's expressly stated to be a rumor, without citing the source isn't something that should be done, whether it be in DS fandom or in the world at large. I'm sorry if you think that's a harsh statement because I truly have nothing against you personally - just the manner in which the news report was presented.
Anyway, I hope my reply doesn't end up getting deleted now or gets me immediately banned
You have no worry that that might happen. We don't delete posts/ban people simply for a difference of opinion. :)
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*Phew* So no hard feelings, perhaps. :)
I still stand by the good things I've said about your forum, and I apologize if the way the news came across isn't to your liking.
I can try to edit it to something more suitable; I had hoped it was made clear that it was very much a rumor and uncomfirmed, but maybe not. I'll change it, and if you have any suggestions if it's still not right, let me know. Really, I'm not trying to upset anyone, and I meant what I said when I said if you have a problem with something, please e-mail me.
Edited to add: I've made the changes to the article. Better, I hope? :)
-- Craig
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*Phew* So no hard feelings, perhaps. :)
No hard feelings at all. :)
I apologize if the way the news came across isn't to your liking.
<snipped>
Edited to add: I've made the changes to the article. Better, I hope? :)
I sincerely appreciate the sentiment, but you had absolutely no need to apologize to me personally. The only thing at issue was that the report be presented in the fairest, most accurate manner possible (well, as accurately as any rumor can ever be presented ;)). And to that end, I'd say that the changes you've made to better cite the sources go a long way to accomplishing that. [thumb]
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<butting in>
If you two get any nicer to each other, I'm gonna have to write you both into my next novel as victims of the monster and have the epitaphs on the gravestones read: "They died as they lived -- they're all mushy."
;)
<butting out>
--M
http://home.triad.rr.com/smrainey (http://home.triad.rr.com/smrainey)
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Perhaps, if our world leaders employed the sort of diplomacy that was used to smoothe over this (admittedly minor) incident as quickly and as successfully as it seems to have been, the world could be a better place. [wink2] But maybe that's just me. ;D
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Horror writers always have to put the most decent people in graves in their stories. It's tradition. ;)
--M
http://home.triad.rr.com/smrainey
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Horror writers always have to put the most decent people in graves in their stories. It's tradition. ;)
Well, if that's the case, then I look forward to my fictional counterpart hopefully meeting his demise in one the most hideously gruesome ways possible. Let that demented imagination of yours soar! [lghy]
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Oh, cool. I'll live! ;)
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Are you trying to imply that you're not decent, Darren? That might work on some people, but I already know that you are. So, too late, your fate is sealed. :D
I'm not trying to spread more rumors but a friend who has been monitoring some of the discussions on one of the WB talk forums mentioned to me that a person who posts there and who appears to have some sort of plausible connections to the WB said that the WB just viewed the pilot yesterday. They went on to say that unless it was godawful, which they sincerely doubt, there's probably no way that an announcement would have been made today that the show was rejected.
Unfortuantely, my friend didn't provide the URL for the forum or the specific post or else I would post it. But maybe someone else who knows more about the WB's site can find it.
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Unfortuantely, my friend didn't provide the URL for the forum or the specific post or else I would post it. But maybe someone else who knows more about the WB's site can find it.
I know which poster you're talking about. Look for the messages by Ladarkangel25 on this page:
http://talk.thewb.com/viewtopic.php?topic=269879&forum=1&17
and this one:
http://talk.thewb.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=268106&forum=1&start=50
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And isn't it nice to see that someone on that site decided to make up a fictitious link to Stuart's site, claiming Stuart posted info that he never did? The online behavior of some people can just never sink low enough, can it? ::)
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I was totally unaware of that... Whether DS flies or not this season, that's pretty low.
Sigh...
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Whether DS flies or not this season, that's pretty low.
The lowest. >:(
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Getting this thread back on topic, here's an article about Frankenstein's appearance in the film Van Helsing (which opens tomorrow) that mentions DS in general and the pilot in particular:
He's not alone out there (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/life/story/0,4386,249581,00.html)
Of course, it implies that a new DS series has already gone into production, which isn't true. But, hey, at least they're not blaming DS for Angel's cancellation. [wink2]
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One post has already been removed. Let's stick to the topic and refrain from making personal cracks about other fans. Thanks!
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Variety has a new article about the buzz certain pilots are generating, both good and bad. (The WB's only mention is for Jack and Bobby.) But what I loved about the article was this bit here:
As for show buzz, here's the latest -- with the very strong caveat that what's "dead" today could be "the next 'Friends' " a week from now:
So, even Variety is saying not to necessarily believe anything that we're hearing. [b003]
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Interesting that other board. .things might get a bit warm in here but at least we remain civil or is it that our 'moderators' lead us to believe that? ;)
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things might get a bit warm in here but at least we remain civil or is it that our 'moderators' lead us to believe that? ;-)
Ha ha! Yes, the members couldn't be more fantastic and the mods couldn't be more fortunate.
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I question the emails only because they were also sent to some individuals who do not have websites and aren't really involved in fandom other than posting on a list or board. I found this out today. It seems to be an attempt just to get the rumor mill going, as if any effort was needed to do that.
It seems strange for someone who indeed knew something who sent emails to "uninvolved" DS fans and also to a site known for being credible such as BarnabasUndead. Looks like an evil plot to me. :-X
Nancy
The barnabasundead site is reporting that they've received two unrelated e-mails claiming that the WB will not be picking up the DS pilot.
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Does any one here know for a fact if the DS pilot was actually screened? Secondly, does anyone know here what the WB's executives' reaction was to the pilot?
Regarding the posted rumors, perhaps the executives were not happy with the pilot if it had been seen. In my opinion when two high ranking WB executives stated pubicly that ,{ DS is one of our top priorities and the fact it has been off the the air for so many years, and there is still a following for the franchise, makes it appealing to us.
Another executive as MB pointed out stated that DS has vast potential} it would seem to me that if they had a problem with the pilot ( perhaps Darren knows something) the WB would not simply abondoned the DS project which was developed soley for them. Perhaps they will ask the producers to shoot different scenes and to fine tune the pilot for a mid-season replacement consideration. Another possible option is having the DS producers sell it to another network for a mid-season replacement and or convert the pilot into a theatrical movie. Of course the best option is to have DS make the fall schedule. What do you think?.
Does any one know where the Old house was filmed as it was not mentioned in Shadowgram. What does the people here think about the Barnabas portrait in Shadowgram. Looks Californian to me which is not a bad thing?
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Jimbo, in case it will help to answer one of your questions, this is from an article in today's (Friday's) L.A. Times called Jack and Bobby:
"TV executives are cooped up in screening rooms this week, viewing pilots that producers have spent the last few months frantically assembling. From this crop, the networks will pick their fall schedules, which are due to be announced the week of May 17. ..."
The article then talks about how the WB Network got an early jump on competitors by ordering 13 eps of J and B.
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Thanks Midnite. It does raise the issues in my last post. I was hoping that perhaps someone here in the know could dispel the rumors that the WB screened the DS pilot and subsequently passed on the pilot. I had thought for a second that the insiders here were very silent on this issue which may mean that the rumor(s) is true. Simpy, if I knew that it had yet to be screened, I would feel a lot better.
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If anyone knew for a fact that the pilot had been passed on, why would we remain silent? It wouldn't be good news, but it would be news we would report just the same.
According to a person who would certainly appear to work for the WB and who posts on the General board on their official forum, the DS pilot was only viewed on Wednesday. So, unless the pilot turned out to be so incredibly awful that they were completely disappointed with it, it seems unlikely they would have made any decison so quickly. And for what it's worth, the same person posted on Friday that absolutely nothing has been decided regarding DS.
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Unsubstantiated, anonymous rumours should be ignored. Discussing them is the reaction the instigators are looking for. I think we can find more worthwhile topics to discuss.
Like, is the cast too young?? ;)
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Like, is the cast too young?? ;)
hmm, not necessarily. I mean, how old were the characters on the original DS? Victoria, Caroylyn, Maggie, Joe, Chris, Willie, etc, were all late teen or early twenty-somethings, weren't they? Granted Alec Newman seems a bit young for Barnabas, but it makes more sense from a story point of view. Frid was 42 when he joined the cast (and frankly, he looked it) but when you think about it, 42 was pretty old in the 1790s when Barnabas was alive. In reality (if such a thing applies :) )He probably would have been much younger. Years ago when I first started watching DS, it occurred to me that the gulf between Barnabas' and Sarah's ages is very large. It seems unlikely that Naomi would have had only two children 30 odd years apart. One could argue that she bore many more children that were stillborn or died crib deaths (maybe that was why she started drinking so much).
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Unsubstantiated, anonymous rumours should be ignored. Discussing them is the reaction the instigators are looking for. I think we can find more worthwhile topics to discuss.
That was exactly the point of my post. I felt that once this rumor was posted on a major website, it is my opinion that the people in the know here had an obligation to immediately report to the members here IF they knew it to be factually false before it further ignited. For example, I believe there are some people here who are in contact with Jim Pierson. I am sure there are things that he would not be allowed to comment on but I am sure he would have been able to reveal if the pilot had been shown or not as this was the week networks were screening its pilots. This rumor could have been nipped in the bud if we were told for example that the pilot had not been screened at the time barnabasundead received those emails which started this rumor craze which has now spread to the mediasharx website.
I also agree that we should move on from this topic which I attempted to do also in my last post. I had asked what the people here thought of the pilot's Barnabas portrait that was refelected in Shadowgram. I also requested to know where the Old House was filmed in the pilot. So I am moving away from this rumor nonsense but it should have been immediately negated.
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I also requested to know where the Old House was filmed in the pilot.
Do you happen to know if that photo or any others can be seen online (I have seen the pic of John Karlen on collinwood.net)
Thanks! :)
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That was exactly the point of my post. I felt that once this rumor was posted on a major website, it is my opinion that the people in the know here had an obligation to immediately report to the members here IF they knew it to be factually false before it further ignited. For example, I believe there are some people here who are in contact with Jim Pierson. I am sure there are things that he would not be allowed to comment on but I am sure he would have been able to reveal if the pilot had been shown or not as this was the week networks were screening its pilots. This rumor could have been nipped in the bud if we were told for example that the pilot had not been screened at the time barnabasundead received those emails which started this rumor craze which has now spread to the mediasharx website.
First off, let me please state that no such obligation is required of our posters. Of course I can't speak for other sites, but it's always been our policy here, and it's even stated in the forum guidelines, that the responsibility of verifying sources and/or insuring the accuracy of information reported lies with the poster. Moderators have the right to remove or address unsubstantiated rumors that are made on these forums, but it's not our responsibility to verify information posted here nor is it expected of our members, and it certainly isn't the responsibility of our members to address information stated elsewhere, even on a popular site such as BarnabasUndead's. It is also not our policy to declare a rumor made here or elsewhere accurate simply because no one *in the loop* has offered a rebuttal.
And speaking unofficially ;), discretion is a quality that I admire in others anyway. It's just a guess, but I would imagine that Pierson (who is not unaware of what is reported on this site) probably does too.
Also, it's just my opinion, but I can't help but wonder if your theory (that false rumors reported in fandom require a rebuttal from a DS official) has the potential to become a manipulative way of obtaining desired information.
it should have been immediately negated.
I respectfully disagree with that statement. As fans, naturally we're anxious to read every tidbit of information provided about a possible new show, but I dont feel we're entitled to have every rumor either challenged or confirmed, and since this is a delicate time in the decision-making process for a potential new DS I think I can understand the need for discretion.
If a fan comes across a rumor in fandom that they feel is inaccurate, they can make the choice to challenge it or to ignore it, but I personally feel that the best way to handle rumors is to refrain from repeating them.
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Granted Alec Newman seems a bit young for Barnabas, but it makes more sense from a story point of view. Frid was 42 when he joined the cast (and frankly, he looked it) but when you think about it, 42 was pretty old in the 1790s when Barnabas was alive. In reality (if such a thing applies :) )He probably would have been much younger. Years ago when I first started watching DS, it occurred to me that the gulf between Barnabas' and Sarah's ages is very large.
I agree, a younger Barnabas seems to fit the "facts" better. Not that I am in any way sorry that Frid played the original Barnabas!
The question of actors being "too old" to play certain roles is an interesting one -- but other examples that come to mind go too far astray. Personally, I'm willing to "suspend my disbelief" if the performance is a good one, and Frid's work definitely falls in that category.
Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see how Newman is in the role!
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I had asked what the people here thought of the pilot's Barnabas portrait that was refelected in Shadowgram. I also requested to know where the Old House was filmed in the pilot.
This is the first I've heard about such a portrait. I haven't received Shadowgram. Do you mean that there's a picture of the "Barnabas portrait" as completed for the new series, with Alec Newman as Barnabas?
I guess no one knows anything about where the Old House locations were filmed -- I'm dying to know that too!
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Midnite it was not my intention to have placed you into a defensive position and I do apologize if I have unwittingly done that. I only desired to have this rumor squashed before it ignited any further and that I had hoped someone here could have done that if they were able to. I thought I made that point very clearly in my last post. You seem to have taken my word "obligation" and placed that into a quasi- legal context pertaining to your rules and regulations. Again my point was and is that it would have been appreciated if someone here took the initiative and definitively denied the possibility of this rumor to be true. This is an informal discussion board and I was merely exercising my right to state an opinion on what I would have liked to have happened. I do agree that posters are under no obligation to refute every rumor. I am saying that in this paricular situation and because of the seriousness and sensitive allegation, it would have been nice to have it refuted to us members.
I do have to say that I am offended by your statement of theory that I am attempting to manipulate this board to obtain information. I simply ASKED if anyone here had certain information pertaining to this rumor and it was my opinion that the people in the know should come forward to its members with the desired information IF they were able to. I also support your position about Jim Pierson. It just seems to me that you are putting words in my mouth and making assumptions as to my state of mind when I posted my inquiry regarding the rumor. That is simply not fair and totally uncalled for.
You are right in that we are at a very critical juncture in the WB's decision making process. This rumor has fueled bad publicity on DS and I hope that it has no negative implications on its decision making process.
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jimbo,
You seem to have taken my word "obligation" and placed that into a quasi- legal context pertaining to your rules and regulations. Again my point was and is that it would have been appreciated if someone here took the initiative and definitively denied the possibility of this rumor to be true. This is an informal discussion board and I was merely exercising my right to state an opinion on what I would have liked to have happened. I do agree that posters are under no obligation to refute every rumor. I am saying that in this paricular situation and because of the seriousness and sensitive allegation, it would have been nice to have it refuted to us members.
Thank you for the clarification. You originally stated that you felt that our members in the know had an obligation to address the rumor immediately if it was false. It's my job to respond by explaining that it's forum policy that no one is under any obligation to refute any rumor. If the way I said it sounded like legal mumbo jumbo, then I apologize. I talk funny sometimes. :)
I do have to say that I am offended by your statement of theory that I am attempting to manipulate this board to obtain information. ... That is simply not fair and totally uncalled for.
I didn't call you manipulative, and no offense was intended. I said that it occurred to me that the practice could become that way; sorry if that wasn't clear. In other words, I'm thinking that if DC's office were to officially rebut this last rumor, should it resurface before WB makes their announcement after the 17th would the absence of another official rebuttal lead fans to say, "They officially denied the last rumor but they didn't this time so it must be true"? You said in an earlier post:I had thought for a second that the insiders here were very silent on this issue which may mean that the rumor(s) is true.
If you could think that for a moment, then I believe it's logical that someone else might also, particularly following one official denial. But if there's never one to begin with, perhaps fewer fans will infer that silence equals confirmation. I think an analogy would be blackmail; there's usually a possibility that the payee will have to keep playing along indefinitely. Do you get what I'm saying?
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After I carefully read your response, I believe we are almost on the same page now. I see your point about the pros and cons of rebuting a rumor with an official announcement by the producers for consistency purposes. I guess it is a tough call for a studio to make, rebuting a rumor and not do the same on a future rumor which may lead to have a person arrive at a false conclusion. Actually I just do not know what the right answer is here. It's an incredibly difficult balance to achieve. I guess the bottom line for me is to simply not want this rumor to be true and if someone here in the know had stated that it was not true, I would have felt much better. I felt at the time of my post that this was the right time for someone in the know to immediately refute this particular rumor as I anticipated how potentially dangerous it would become causing bad p.r. for DS. Prior to the rumor, DS enjoyed a strong positive buzz in the media. Now at least three websites are reporting that the DS pilot is dead in the water and that is very, very unfortunate.
So thank you for your explanation and I hope our future discussions will be on a more positive note and on more positive news. I am still remaining optimistic about the DS pilot making it to series on the WB.
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I agree, a younger Barnabas seems to fit the "facts" better. Not that I am in any way sorry that Frid played the original Barnabas!
The question of actors being "too old" to play certain roles is an interesting one -- but other examples that come to mind go too far astray.
A short while ago we had a discussion (a tangent in the Focus Groups topic) about actors' vs. characters' ages. For example, we pointed out that, although Frid was in his 40s, the show established that Barnabas had supposedly been born in 1770, which would have meant that he wasn't more than 25 when he was cursed.
If you (or anyone else) missed it, use the following link to check out the discussion:
... I think we're adverse to the idea of THESE characters and performers being younger. ...
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I felt at the time of my post that this was the right time for someone in the know to immediately refute this particular rumor as I anticipated how potentially dangerous it would become causing bad p.r. for DS. Prior to the rumor, DS enjoyed a strong positive buzz in the media. Now at least three websites are reporting that the DS pilot is dead in the water and that is very, very unfortunate.
Well, as the excerpt I posted from that recent Variety article stated: "what's "dead" today could be "the next 'Friends' " a week from now." [wink2] And frankly, it doesn't really matter what those three Web sites are reporting. The articles/web sites that have given the impression that a new DS series is already in production could be said to contradict them (and we know for a fact that the info purporting that the show is in production is not true). The sad fact is that often writers and Web sites don't confirm their supposed facts - one writer/site writes/posts something and then others pick it up without question. Misinformation is an epidmic on the Internet. :(
I hate to keep sounding like a broken record, however, fans should be preparing themselves for the very real possibility that the pilot will not get picked up. The simple fact is that the ratio of passes to pick ups is basically 4 to 1 - meaning for every 1 pilot that gets picked up, 4 are passed on. Those are the facts. Yet I can pretty much guarantee that at some point in their development process every one of those passed pilots had some sort of positve buzz. I'm not trying to be pessimistic toward a WB DS' chances of being picked up. I truly hope that it will be, and it probably has as good a chance as any of the WB's remaining drama pilots. But fans should be realistic. And given the realities of the business, the big surprise will not be if the pilot doesn't get picked up - it will be if it does.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and try to wait patiently for the 18th because the news that comes out on that day is really all that's important. :)
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I guess no one knows anything about where the Old House locations were filmed -- I'm dying to know that too!
According to Dark Shadows Journal Online, the exteriors and interiors for Collinwood and the Old House were the same as those used for the Revival Series, the Beverly Hills Mansion Greystone. The story includes some pics of the estate. Here is the link:
http://www.collinwood.net/news/news04-04.htm#begins
Look for the April 10 entry
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According to Dark Shadows Journal Online, the exteriors and interiors for Collinwood and the Old House were the same as those used for the Revival Series, the Beverly Hills Mansion Greystone.
Actually, the site states that Greystone is being used to represent Collinwood in the new production and goes on to say that the mansion was used to represent both in the '91 revival. There's been no announcement about the location of the mansion that's being used as the Old House in the new series.
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What does the people here think about the Barnabas portrait in Shadowgram.
Well, let me be the first to volunteer to be his Eternal Bride of the Undead! LOL! I like the long, wavy hair! (Hee hee!) But where is the wolf's head cane???!
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This is the first I've heard about such a portrait. I haven't received Shadowgram. Do you mean that there's a picture of the "Barnabas portrait" as completed for the new series, with Alec Newman as Barnabas?
Yes, there is a picture of the new Barnabas portrait with Alec Newman in Shadowgram. It's a full-body portrait. He's dressed in his 18th century clothes, which are different than what we've seen Barnabas wear before: no ruffled shirt, no medals. A little more casual-type clothes. He is wearing a cape, though. He has shoulder-length wavy hair -- sigh...drool... LOL! ;)
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Like, is the cast too young?? ;)
I did some number crunching on this very issue some time ago. Here is what I came up with:
Using the IMDB and TV Tome as age sources, all the ages of the 2004 Pilot added up together and divided by the number of cast members (13 thus announced/cast) equals to 32.46 years.
The ages and parts are: Brown (Liz) (58), Roberts (Sheriff Patterson) (57), Donovan (Roger) (47), Hu (Julia) (36), Shaw (Joe) (31), Newman (Barnabas) (30), Shelton (Victoria) (30), Czuchry (Willie) (27), Milicevic (Angelique) (26), Thorpe (Kelly) (24), Dewan (Sophia) (24), Chastain (Carolyn) (22) (Note: Her birthday is no where to be found and I asked Mark Verheiden - This also rings true if she is recently graduated from Juliiard. That age is about right since my step-son is going to be 21 in June and has one more year of college - putting him at 22 when he graduates.), and Gould (David) (10). The majority here are 25 years old or older.
Taking a part for part analysis I took the original cast and their ages in 1966 (the start date of the show), Bennett (Liz) (56), Eclar (Sheriff Patterson #1) (39), Blackburn (Mrs. Johnson) (45), Hall (Julia) (43), Edmonds (Roger) (43), Frid (Barnabas) (42), Karlen (Willie) (33), Crothers (Joe) (25), Parker (Angelique) (24), Barrett (Carolyn) (23), Jackson (Daphne) (17) (This was randomly chosen using the old 8 sided randomizer from a list of 8 ladies playing different parts at different times throughout the show. - Jackson would have been 21 in 1970.), Moltke (Victoria) (19), Henesy (David) (10). Their average age (all ages added together and divided by 13) is equal to 32.23 years old. In the case of this sampling, six of the thirteen are under the age of 25.
The 2004 cast is older then the sample of 1966 cast by .23 years. Not an appreciable difference.
I also wanted to compare the ages to the 1991 Revival but there are not enough birthdays to run any kind of accurate numbers. Many are missing years, some are entirely missing and in one case, it was a month and day.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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I did some number crunching on this very issue some time ago. Here is what I came up with:
LOL Brava, Victoria! Brava! :) :) :) :)
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Brief mention of DS in an article "Winning At Network Schedule Survivor" (http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|88035|1|,00.html) at zap2it.com. It is stated that "Provided it gets picked up, John Wells' Dark Shadows had better prove it was worth the loss of Angel". Sure let them put a little more pressure on the WB executives. lol
The article also points out which shows on all of the networks who are are on the bubble.
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For what it's worth, here's Variety's advice to the WB. Some interesting bits here which *might* point to there being more openings on the WB's schedule for DS than might otherwise be assumed, but there's no specific mention of DS. (Also, if Variety has tapped into the WB's thinking, there goes the idea of a WB DS following Smallville):
Posted: Sun., May 9, 2004, 6:00am PT
Frog, UPN face season of challenges
Advice for netlets: get more dramatic
By RICK KISSELL
LAST IN A THREE-PART ANALYSIS
HOLLYWOOD -- One year after riding high and setting network records right and left, the Frog leaped back to earth this season.
But armed with the knowledge of some sked mistakes and a smart strategy on how to cut down on long stretches of repeats, the WB is still a force to be reckoned with heading into 2004-05 television season.
Key to the unveiling of this fall's Frog sked could be the relocation of both its top drama ("Smallville") and comedy ("Reba") as well as novel ways of double-pumping shows.
In the third of a three-part series looking at the nets prior to the upfronts, here's a peek at the WB and UPN:
The WB
The loss of "Dawson's Creek" combined with declines by other hit shows made for some ugly year-to-year comparisons for the Frog. Net has acknowledged it came late to the reality dance, too, and improvement in this area could also help its perf next season.
It still has a foundation of hit shows, including late-blooming rookie drama "One Tree Hill," and will likely look to add a couple of new dramas and comedies to its sked.
Idea of double-pumping some series weekly (same episode twice) and having two series share a time period (a la "Felicity" and "Jack and Jill" a few years ago) is a great one.
Look for the Frog to use tough slots like Sunday at 7 and maybe Thursday at 8 to air encore episodes of dramas. For example, "Everwood" could play Monday at 9 and Thursday at 8 for 13 weeks in the fall, sit out while a new skein airs in the same pattern during winter and then return for the last nine weeks of the season.
This would nearly eliminate repeats in the Monday hour while allowing the net to recoup ad revs by playing "Everwood" a second time.
One of the WB's problems this past season was the move of its top shows ("Smallville" and "Reba") to the 8 o'clock hour, and putting less popular shows behind them to air in higher-viewed timeslots.
Look for "Reba," a strong performer on Friday, to get a chance on a midweek night, possibly Wednesday, while the net keeps its Friday comedy lineup, with "Grounded for Life" and "What I Like About You" both still in the mix.
"Steve Harvey's Big Time" performed well for the net on Thursday and deserves to be back in some form as well.
As for dramas, net might rejigger some of its pieces, with important skein "Smallville" likely headed back to a 9 o'clock slot after suffering sharp ratings declines when moved to Wednesdays at 8.
Among new shows, "The Mountain" (a family drama set at a mountain ski resort) sounds like a winner and could have more male appeal than most Frog hours. Net also seems to be high on "Jack and Bobby" (a drama about two brothers, one of whom is destined to become president), a possible contender to share a timeslot with "Everwood."
And promising half-hours include family laffers "Shacking Up" with Fran Drescher, "Commando Nanny" from Mark Burnett and "Blue Collar Comedy" with Jeff Foxworthy.
Also encouraging is the net's plan for original movies, which in success would help bring new viewers to the net while further reducing the number of repeats.
Bottom line: The WB needs to generate some heat with a new drama or reality show and give "Reba" a chance to showcase comedy for the Frog on a higher-profile night.[/b]
Date in print: Mon., May 10, 2004, Weekly
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Since filming is finished, it shouldn't be a big secret...
The Old House was not filmed at a manor location.
The interiors were shot at a the LA Theater with some clever production design work and set dressings added.
The exteriors driveway, gate area and fountain were shot at Sable Ranch. The Old House exterior itself is a CGI construction.
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The interiors were shot at a the LA Theater with some clever production design work and set dressings added.
The exteriors driveway, gate area and fountain were shot at Sable Ranch. The Old House exterior itself is a CGI construction.
Interesting - particularly the OH exterior being CGI generated. Now I really can't wait to (hopefully) see it. [62b2]
Thanks, Darren :)
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Thanks Darren on the Old House shooting information. Very interesting. Oh my, now I really want to see the DS pilot!
Just wondering if Van Helsing's 54 million dollar opening might get the WB's attention?
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Just wondering if Van Helsing's 54 million dollar opening might get the WB's attention?
Oh, I don't think the WB needs to be convinced that Vampires have a huge fan following.......only that the new DS pilot can deliver that following. ;)
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Just wondering if Van Helsing's 54 million dollar opening might get the WB's attention?
OMG, I had the misfortune of contributing to that 54 million opening. It was so bad, words almost cannot describe. I've seen better film on teeth. I do not expect will have much repeat business, esp. once word starts to get around.
I, for one, am hoping that the WB does _not_ use Van Helsing as a guide to what modern horror is about.
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Oh, I don't think the WB needs to be convinced that Vampires have a huge fan following.......only that the new DS pilot can deliver that following. ;)
I am totally with you Raineypark ! Just imagine what kind of ratings the new DS can bring in for the WB. If the WB does not take notice, perhaps another network would?
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I am totally with you Raineypark ! Just imagine what kind of ratings the new DS can bring in for the WB. If the WB does not take notice, perhaps another network would?
Well, perhaps if the Sci Fi channel hadn't treated us so badly about taking the show off the air with only a few episodes left to do, we could hope for THEM to consider what the WB might not....but I doubt there's anything for us to hope for from them.
And I seriously doubt that a fledgeling network like the new Horror Channel would be in a position to finance an entirely new series.
And finally, I can't quite picture one of the other networks picking up on something that the WB has already refused.....but of course, that's just my take on it.
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OMG, I had the misfortune of contributing to that 54 million opening. It was so bad, words almost cannot describe. I've seen better film on teeth. I do not expect will have much repeat business, esp. once word starts to get around.
I, for one, am hoping that the WB does _not_ use Van Helsing as a guide to what modern horror is about.
Well I am a contributor too. My only point was is that if the WB now believes that DS may not be a good fit in its family oriented programming, perhaps the WB will take notice of Helsing's box office intake and be reminded that the vampire genre is still alive and can translate into big ratings. I still say that DS would be a good fit with Charmed on Sunday night.
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I, for one, am hoping that the WB does _not_ use Van Helsing as a guide to what modern horror is about.
We probably won't have to worry about that, particularly because the NBC pilot Transylvania is already sort of a TV spinoff of Van Helsing. (And considering that one of my least favorite Buffy/Angel writers, David Fury, is attached to it, it's not likely to be any better than the movie that spawned it. :()
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Well I am a contributor too. My only point was is that if the WB now believes that DS may not be a good fit in its family oriented programming, perhaps the WB will take notice of Helsing's box office intake and be reminded that the vampire genre is still alive and can translate into big ratings. I still say that DS would be a good fit with Charmed on Sunday night.
You have a point. I have to say though that I have never watched an entire ep of Charmed. From what I little I have seen, it seemed to be a supernatural/genre/comedy/drama in the vein (no pun intended) of Buffy and Angel. If the goal of a new DS series is to be a drama like DSClassic and DSRevival, I am not so sure that it _would_ be a good fit with Charmed. Again, I say this with the complete realization that I don't know what Charmed is all about, so I might just be talking out of my butt again. ;D
Nelson
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Again, I say this with the complete realization that I don't know what Charmed is all about, so I might just be talking out of my butt again. ;D
Your take on Charmed is absolutely dead on. And, truthfully, nowadays the series is often more comedy than anything else. But even with that in mind, my main opposition to teaming a potential DS with Charmed is what a difficult timeslot Sundays at 9pm is on the WB. If Charmed were to be moved to a different night, that opinion might change. But considering how well Charmed does on Sundays, moving it would seem unlikely.
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From what I little I have seen, it seemed to be a supernatural/genre/comedy/drama in the vein (no pun intended) of Buffy and Angel. If the goal of a new DS series is to be a drama like DSClassic and DSRevival, I am not so sure that it _would_ be a good fit with Charmed.
Nelson you too raise a good point. Dark Shadows is obviously more than just being a vampire driven show. I was trying to get into the minds of a WB executive ( isn't that dangerous lol) and ask myself where would I place DS on the fall schedule. There is no doubt that DS and Charmed are supernatural/ fantasy based programs. I would place DS with Charmed or with Smallville. Either way I think DS can bring in big ratings for the WB.
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Well, as the excerpt I posted from that recent Variety article stated: "what's "dead" today could be "the next 'Friends' " a week from now." [wink2] And frankly, it doesn't really matter what those three Web sites are reporting. The articles/web sites that have given the impression that a new DS series is already in production could be said to contradict them (and we know for a fact that the info purporting that the show is in production is not true). The sad fact is that often writers and Web sites don't confirm their supposed facts - one writer/site writes/posts something and then others pick it up without question. Misinformation is an epidmic on the Internet. :(
Very true. Also due to the excitement there is a tendency to overanalyize every scrap of information and someone will repeat elsewhere what they heard, and some of the conclusion of analysis winds up being swept in there and before you have it misinformation and conjecture are all over the place.
Shows that have become classics saw their initial pilots not only shopped and rejected initially by other networks before finding a home, sometimes the pilot was rewritten and shot several times before the show was picked up. Even if the new DS is not picked up by WB, there is no reason why it could not find a home elsewhere, IMO.
nancy
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Nancy I would like to believe that John Wells and Dan Curtis are savy enough to already have in place contingency plans if the WB fails to pick up DS to series. Let's hope they will not have to go to plan B.
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I imagine so. With the uncertainty of the industry normally I would think contingency plans are in place to keep on pushing. After all, this is how people like Wells and Curtis make a living . . . ;)
nancy
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I am remaining optimistic that the WB will pick up DS to series. But I do agree Nancy that there are some options available to Wells and Curtis should the WB fail to pick up DS. It would be a bit ironic if John Wells, with his direct connections to NBC, attempts to sell DS to that network.
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The interiors were shot at a the LA Theater with some clever production design work and set dressings added.
The exteriors driveway, gate area and fountain were shot at Sable Ranch. The Old House exterior itself is a CGI construction.
Thank you for providing this info, Darren! OK, here I am clueless again -- LOL! -- but may I ask what and where is Sable Ranch? Has it been used before in other productions? Sounds cool, anyway.
The Old House exterior a CGI construction -- well, that sounds interesting. Hope it looks good! :)
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OMG, I had the misfortune of contributing to that 54 million opening. It was so bad, words almost cannot describe. I've seen better film on teeth. I do not expect will have much repeat business, esp. once word starts to get around.
I, for one, am hoping that the WB does _not_ use Van Helsing as a guide to what modern horror is about.
Uh oh, I'm gonna dissent here -- I thought "Van Helsing" was cool!! LOL! Well, the CGI Mr. Hyde was really stupid, but they got that over with quickly, thank goodness, and the rest of the movie was really cool, IMHO!! Loved the flying vampire brides! Now that would be interesting to use with Angelique!!
(Uh oh, I am so ducking after that suggestion! LOL!) (But I think it would be awesome! :D) ( [a2a3])
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may I ask what and where is Sable Ranch? Has it been used before in other productions?
Sable Ranch has been used in dozens of productions. Mostly westerns. But it was also used as a stand-in for England for some of the exteriors in '93's "Robin Hood: Men In Tights" (they built a fiberglass castle - check out some of the photos on this site (http://www.czechrealty.com/EnglishVersion/LosAngeles-English.htm)) and more recently for exteriors in Disney's Haunted Mansion (check out some of those photos here (http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=15121)).
I came across both of these sites earlier today while I was looking for a site that might have possibly had a photo of the fountain Darren referred to, but no luck. :( But after looking through the photos that I began to come across and seeing as how most of the place is, well, a ranch (cabins, livestock, the whole bit), I thought that perhaps the DS pilot, like the other two movies I've cited, just wanted to use the amazing vistas at Sable Ranch, and whatever was needed that wasn't already there was simply created for the shoot.
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All fountains and set dressing were brought. No existing structures at Sable Ranch were used, just the settings and environment...
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No existing structures at Sable Ranch were used
I suppose it would have been a bit hard to explain why the Collins family built a hacienda. [b003]
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Yes, there is a picture of the new Barnabas portrait with Alec Newman in Shadowgram. It's a full-body portrait. He's dressed in his 18th century clothes, which are different than what we've seen Barnabas wear before: no ruffled shirt, no medals. A little more casual-type clothes. He is wearing a cape, though. He has shoulder-length wavy hair -- sigh...drool... LOL! ;)
Thank you, Mary. I hope I don't have too much longer to wait to see this, but for some reason my Shadowgram seems to arrive quite a bit later than most people's.
VW, interesting statistics; thanks.
Re: Unveiling the location information for the Old House -- thank you, Darren.
Now, if there's anyone I haven't thanked but should have, please consider yourself thanked. :D
Quote from Nelson Collins:
I, for one, am hoping that the WB does _not_ use Van Helsing as a guide to what modern horror is about.
The trailer was enough for me. A quote from my former hometown newspaper's review:
"mindless special-effects overkill and a complete absence of coherent narrative"
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I haven't seen Van Helsing and probably will not, just from seeing the trailers. The reason why? "Computer-animated graphics." I might be the only one who thinks that this "technology" still has a long a way to go, pondering if I'm also the only one who thinks that when, seeing a movie with these Ninetendo-like creatures is like watching Roger Rabbit. It looks so fake to me that it's distracting. At this point, I'd prefer stop-motion or the plain, old guy zipped up in a suit of scales and fur. That Van Helsing werewolf looks like the Tasmanian devil that keeps trying to eat Bugs Bunny.
Gerard
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Gerard...I too hate/despise/loathe computer animation.
I don't think it has a long way to go, but I feel it shows a lack of true creativity and artistry.
True, a few people can cut/paste; know the right keystrokes, but, considering what the people on DS originally had to work with...again, total lack of imagination.
IMHO ;)
Patti
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I haven't seen Van Helsing and probably will not, just from seeing the trailers. The reason why? "Computer-animated graphics." I might be the only one who thinks that this "technology" still has a long a way to go, pondering if I'm also the only one who thinks that when, seeing a movie with these Ninetendo-like creatures is like watching Roger Rabbit. It looks so fake to me that it's distracting. At this point, I'd prefer stop-motion or the plain, old guy zipped up in a suit of scales and fur. That Van Helsing werewolf looks like the Tasmanian devil that keeps trying to eat Bugs Bunny.
The CGI definitely overused and isn't entirely sucessful in some spots. Bad script, bad acting, I spent the whole film spotting what genre or film stole from.
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The websites www.collinwood.net and www.barnabasundead.com have both posted a summary of a Variety article published today indicating that the DS pilot is now a "long shot" to make the WB's fall schedule. Hopefully, John Wells and Dan Curtis can convince the WB executives to change its minds.
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I am remaining optimistic that the WB will pick up DS to series. But I do agree Nancy that there are some options available to Wells and Curtis should the WB fail to pick up DS. It would be a bit ironic if John Wells, with his direct connections to NBC, attempts to sell DS to that network.
Someone may have already suggested this, or I might just be shouted down, but despite the SciFi Channel treating fans so shabbily, does anyone think that they might be interested in a new DS Series? They have done revivals of series before, i.e. Battlestar Galactic, as well as picking up Stargate SG1 from Showtime.
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All "Dark Shadows" fans need to send e-mail to The WB at faces@thewb.com
There is a strong possibility that The WB may NOT pick up the new series for it's fall schedule.
So please send your e-mail NOW!
For more details please go to www.barnabasundead.com (http://www.barnabasundead.com)
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I hate to say this, but if the WB is lukewarm about the pilot, which they themselves helped develop, maybe it's not so hot.
I'd rather have no "new" Dark Shadows at all rather than a not-so-great one that folded in ignominy after a few weeks.
And what effect might a so-so incarnation of the series have on the original series? If the new series were a dog, how likely would another network jump at the chance to re-run the old one?
I never thought I'd say this and I apologize for spreading gloom and doom ... but the original DS's reputation and memory is more important to me than any new version will ever be.
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vlad,what you say is true.while i was looking foreward to a new d.s.,i knew it wasn't a "done deal".i'm disappointed,but in truth i know a remake would never have supplanted o.s. in our hearts.what happened there was a rare animal.it's few t.v. shows that have fans talking about it 30 years after it's run.i'm still holding out hope for the new show, but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't diminish our enjoyment of the original. :-*
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I hate to say this, but if the WB is lukewarm about the pilot, which they themselves helped develop, maybe it's not so hot.
Well, we probably won't know for sure what's going on until there's some sort of official statement put out. But for what it's worth, the person on the WB's official forum who *seems* to be in the know posted in one topic that reshoots were done on the pilot for "retooling" of the ending, and in another topic "that the pilot didn't go to well," that it's "not horrible," but it "needs retooling." What remains a bit unclear, though, is whether the retooling and reshoots were done prior to the WB having seen it or afterward - and that would have made all the difference because if it were afterward, there would still be some hope. However, this person subsequently posted that they heard from someone in John Wells' office that DS isn't ever going to air. :( So, regardless of the time frame of the retooling, it doesn't appear to look good...
I'd rather have no "new" Dark Shadows at all rather than a not-so-great one that folded in ignominy after a few weeks.
I'm afraid I have to agree. But we should also keep in mind that all this info is being stated second and even third hand, so we don't really know how reliable it is.
If there is truth in the retooling story, what does seem odd is that, unless the script was somehow changed at some point prior to production but after the WB had approved it, one would assume that the WB was already well aware of how the pilot was going to end. Though I suppose the way the ending read on paper and the way it was ultimately shot/edited could have been vastly different.
I guess time will tell...
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Sable Ranch has been used in dozens of productions. Mostly westerns. But it was also used as a stand-in for England for some of the exteriors in '93's "Robin Hood: Men In Tights" (they built a fiberglass castle - check out some of the photos on (URL)) and more recently for exteriors in Disney's Haunted Mansion (check out some of those photos (URL)).
Thanks, MB. Looks like a pretty neat location!
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I sent an email to faces@thewb.com and hope that more people will too. How will we ever know if this show is wonderful or not if it never airs?
If this show is aired and it is good it can only help bring more fans to the other versions of Dark Shadows.
This is the best chance we have to keep interest and re-newed interest in Dark Shadows. If you want to see Soap Net or another channel pick up the original show. We need to show that there is still an audience, and a growing new audience for this show.
Misa
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Well, we probably won't know for sure what's going on until there's some sort of official statement put out. But for what it's worth, the person on the WB's official forum who *seems* to be in the know posted in one topic that reshoots were done on the pilot for "retooling" of the ending, and in another topic "that the pilot didn't go to well," that it's "not horrible," but it "needs retooling." What remains a bit unclear, though, is whether the retooling and reshoots were done prior to the WB having seen it or afterward - and that would have made all the difference because if it were afterward, there would still be some hope. However, this person subsequently posted that they heard from someone in John Wells' office that DS isn't ever going to air. :( So, regardless of the time frame of the retooling, it doesn't appear to look good...
Near the top of the page in the middle is the official press release for "Jack & Bobby." However, nothing for DS, nor anything else. The news about "Jack & Bobby" is dated today.
Still isn't over 'til the fat lady sings. I am skeptical until all the facts are in. Still no evidence that it can't be a mid-season replacement or that any of these "new shows" will make it. Some of them may tank and in may walk Dark Shadows.
In any event, this thing got shot and on film. Since 1991, it's gotten further then any other new Dark Shadows project. It could be a stepping stone to other things. John Wells is a big muky muck in Hollywood. We are also not privy to said contract with the WB. Is there a "oh no, I can't shop this elsewhere clause"? I'd never sign that kinda of a deal unless it was a guaranteed or exclusive pick up or I got money out of the deal. (But, MB truly knows my business sense or should I say "cents". I may be more of a shark then John Wells. LOL! ;))
It also brought us new fans in recent months and I never consider that a bad thing. It brought the old show to the fore in the media. Notice it was almost always with a Jonathan Frid picture. :) Plus, we've kept the old DS Boards hopping!
In any event, I still remain an optimist. I always will see the glass 1/2 full instead of 1/2 empty. Life is full of surprises!
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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Mb I too am very perplexed about this alleged retooling of the pilot. As you said the time line is very crucial here. To make some sense of the uncertainity I would have to assume that the executives were not happy about something(s) in the pilot and that was communicated to the DS producers. If this is true it would then appear that the WB was going to permit a second screening of the pilot which may or may have not been done to date. In this sceanario there is still hope absent of what the WB "insider" as claimed. I think what the WB insider said about there was reshooting of scenes is highly unlikely. If we assume that the pilot was screened on last Wednesday, how on earth could all of the actors and filming crew get together in such a short period of time and then have the pilot re-edited in time for the second screening? My point I guess is that this WB insider may not know the whole story. In any event I wonder who will be putting out the official announcement of the status of the pilot?
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There were no reshoots on the pilot.
Just rumors and nonsense.
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I know it would be very disappointing for us if DS isn't picked up, but considering all the anti-DS feeling from the Angel fans, it would certainly be ironic if DS isn't on, either!!
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There were no reshoots on the pilot.
Just rumors and nonsense.
Well, then quite obviously that calls into question everything that has been posted by that person on the WB's forum. >:( (But in their defense, I suppose it should be stated that they're seemingly relaying info that's being fed to them from other sources. Apparently it's those sources that really have no idea what they're saying, and who the hell knows why they're saying it?! ::))
Thanks for clearing up the matter so quickly, Darren. :)
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Thanks MB and Darren. I guess at this time we do need some type of closure and/or a reason to hope. I will remain hopeful until informed otherwise.
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No prob. Happy to help with whatever info I'm permitted to convey (which is nothing more than I've said so far...)
Say, can someone that's got a copy of the new Shadowgram email me a scan of the photo page &/or the new Barnabas portrait picture....I loved seeing that 'Blue Boy' inspired portrait on set and would love to see it again...
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I'd be happy knowing what his hair color is in the portrait. ;D
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A lightish brown.
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Thanks, Darren, I've been dying to know the answer ever since it was announced that there was a picture of it in Shadowgram. Of course, now all I'll think of is the painting of Blue Boy when I think of Newman as Barnabas, lol. ;)
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The style is totally inspired by Gainsborough's 'Blue Boy' but the color is not. His outfit is brown & tan with black boots. The portrait is a huge 7 feet or so potrait. Quite imposing over the fireplace...
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Over the fireplace and seven feet tall!? Hmm, sounds like this Barnabas was in better standing with his parents and ancestors than the original incarnation.
I hope the pilot and the portrait both show up at the Fest, especially if it is not picked up by the WB. Fat chance I guess if the pilot is picked up though. Or even some "clips" of the pilot (picked up or not) would be nice. But even if it is picked up, the portrait debuting at the Fest would be a fabulous "teaser", along with the clips. It would be fabulous to have some of the new actors there too, but if it is not picked up, I guess that would be pointless.
PS - How many times can you use "picked up" in a paragraph, lol... ::)
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The websites www.collinwood.net and www.barnabasundead.com have both posted a summary of a Variety article published today indicating that the DS pilot is now a "long shot" to make the WB's fall schedule.
In light of the fact that apparently most, if not all of the supposed insider info that's been posted on the WB's General board would certainly appear to be wrong, it's probably worth noting that the Variety piece is basing it's opinion on the belief that the WB is going with both Jack and Bobby and The Mountain and seemingly only those two dramas.
Now, they may very well have actual sources to confirm that, and I'll grant that I greatly respect Variety's reporting, but let's also keep in mind that they may have no way of knowing at this point that those are in fact the only two dramas the WB may be picking up. The view that DS is a longshot *may* simply be this Variety reporter's opinion. An educated one, certainly - but an opinion nonetheless. And let's also still keep in mind that just a few days ago Variety's very same reporter issued 'a very strong caveat that what's "dead" today could be "the next 'Friends' " a week from now,' which may very well still be in effect. [wink2]
So, with all that in mind, and so that we can check his opinions after the facts of the network schedules are in, here's the text of the entire article:
Posted: Sun., May 9, 2004, 10:00pm PT
Inside Move: 'Joey' pleasing Peacock
Screening rooms abuzz with pilots
By JOSEF ADALIAN
With a week to go before the Big Six begin their upfront presentations, webheads find themselves facing facts about pet projects.
In some cases, the operative emotion is relief.
NBC's "Joey," for example, was going on the schedule no matter what. But with the finished product drawing raves from screening rooms -- and solid reviews from independent sources -- Peacock brass can rest a little easier.
Likewise, ABC's "Desperate Housewives" has been a favorite child since it was bought as a spec script and then-Touchstone prexy Steve McPherson -- who now runs ABC -- said the sudsy hour about suburban schemers boasts "such a point of view, it just jumps off the page" (Daily Variety, Oct. 22). Now that it's done, Alphabet insiders continue to gush about the Marc Cherry/Chuck Pratt creation.
Then there are reversals of fortune.
Once considered a strong contender for the WB's fall schedule, the Frog's new take on "Dark Shadows" has turned into a longshot. Odds have also grown longer for "The Robinsons: Lost in Space," which the WB won after a heated bidding war among several nets.
Instead of franchises, it seems the Frog is going back to its four-hanky roots, ordering the coming-of-age drama "Jack & Bobby" to series and preparing to do the same with the sudsy "The Mountain."
On the comedy side, heat-seekers at the WB include the Fran Drescher vehicle "Shacking Up" and the Mark Burnett-produced nanny laffer "Miles to Go." Net's laffer based on the "Blue Collar Comedy Tour" is expected to start in summer and could stay on through the fall.
As for buzz from other nets:
* Fox: "Family Guy" creator Seth MacFarlane's animated laffer "American Dad" is getting big laughs in screening rooms. On the drama tip, the supernatural sudser "Point Pleasant" has scared up positive reactions, while medical mystery drama "House" has some big fans (even if its serious tone and older lead make it a tough fit for Fox).
There's also buzz around "On the Inside," the high school-based undercover cop show from Glenn and Todd Kessler.
* CBS: The Eye keeps a tight lid on its screening process, making early speculation risky. That said, the Ricki Lake/Kirstie Alley laffer from Dan Staley and Rob Long is an early fave, while comedies toplined by Chris O'Donnell, Jason Alexander and John Goodman are all in the mix.
On the drama side, "CSI: New York" is already a go, leaving little room on the Eye's sked for new hours.
Both cop shows from Sarah Timberman and Carl Beverly's 25C Prods. -- "Wanted" and "The Webster Report" -- screened well, sources said. Supernatural-tinged "Sudberry" also has its fans, as does Mel Gibson's "The Clubhouse" -- and neither show is a crime franchise!
* ABC: As previously reported, Rodney Carrington's half-hour is hot, as is the Jessica Simpson half-hour (the latter because of its star, rather than the substance of the pilot). John Stamos' serialized romantic comedy is being called "cute" by many who've seen it, while Joel Stein's autobiographical comedy about his days as a Time columnist is on several shortlists.
Drama-wise, Steven Bochco's cop hour "Blind Justice" is generating buzz, as is Shonda Rhimes' medical drama "Under the Knife." The first hour of J.J. Abrams' "Lost" will be screened this week. "Housewives" and "Eyes" are also major players (Daily Variety, May 7).
* NBC: Comedy and drama faves remain the same as reported Friday, though the Heather Locklear-led "HUB" could be making it back on to the buzz radar.
* UPN: Two drama players include the fashion industry hour "Beck and Call" (can you say "Top Model" companion?) and the Taye Diggs daddy drama "Kevin Hill." Crime-themed "Veronica Mars" and "Silver Lake" also have fans, though it's hard to imagine UPN launching four dramas.
Comedy-wise, "One on One" spinoff "Splitting Hairs" is buzz-friendly, as is Jenny McCarthy's "Bad Girls Guide."[/b]
Date in print: Mon., May 10, 2004, Los Angeles
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PS - How many times can you use "picked up" in a paragraph, lol... ::)
[lghy] But honestly, all of your uses of "picked up" weren't in the least bit extraneous, so don't be so hard on yourself. And besides, it's the appropriate entertainment business term - how many other terms are actually available with the exact same meaning? [b003]
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The Old House was not filmed at a manor location.
The interiors were shot at a the LA Theater with some clever production design work and set dressings added.
Speaking of the LA Theater, I came across two interesting photos of the interior on this site (http://www.cart66pf.org/66caravan/roadlog01a.htm). Scroll down about halfway to the "Elegance of Another Era" section..
If this is at all representative of the entire building, it seems like the Old House will be quite different from any version we've ever seen before - and quite spectacular. Another Web site (http://www.laconservancy.org/initiatives/latheater.php4) describes the interiors thusly:
"Built in 1931, the lavish Los Angeles Theatre recalls the glories of the French Baroque and France's "Sun King," Louis XIV. Its majestic six-story main lobby overwhelms audiences with a three-tiered fountain in a hall of mirrors, crystal chandeliers, a grand sweeping stairway, and gold-gilt sunbursts. And that's just the lobby. The Baroque auditorium teems with golden angels, cherubs, and flowery swags. From the rich restaurant space to the glass-ceiling ballroom, from the marble-lined ladies room to the circus-motif playroom, the amenities of the Los Angeles give theatergoers a full entertainment experience.
The theater is available for filming, live performance and entertainment, weddings, business meetings, religious services, graduations, fashion shows and special events. It has not been comprehensively renovated. Users will want the support of a rental technical package and creativity in adapting events to the space."
And here's (http://www.hoopla.org/Margolies/Theaters/pages/0093LATheater.htm) a B&W photo of the lobby, which almost looks like something out of an old Universal Dracula movie. ;)
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What's this term Frog, apparently meaning WB? ???
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The WB's logo is a cartoon frog with a top hat.
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Thank you, Rainey! I don't know if I ever noticed that. :)
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The Frog appeared in a Warner Bros. classic cartoon from the 1950's; it had only one appearance, but the cartoon is one of the most hysterically funniest produced by the studio. A man finds a box contained within the cornerstone of a building being demolished and discovers inside a frog which is highly talented: it sings and dances like the male star of a Busby Berkely musical, top hat, cane and all. The problem is, it'll only do that when the it's alone with the man. Nevertheless, the man decides this is his golden moment to become wealthy and spends everything he has to put the Frog in a theatrical spectacular. But - alas - as before, the Frog stops singing and dancing its heart out the moment the curtain opens. Eventually, the man (with the Frog) is sent to a looney bin, and upon release he has had enough of the Frog and encases it in the cornerstone of the new building going up on the site of the demolished one. Way in the distant future, that skyscraper is now being destroyed and another man discovers the Frog inside the time capsule, the amphibian again going into song and dance, so the futuristic man sneaks off with it with dreams of becoming wealthy.
Gerard
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That would be one Phineas T. Frog from the classic WB cartoon 'One Froggy Evening' - you know the one where the construction worker finds a frog who occasionally (and very inconveniently) bursts into beautiful songs like 'Ragtime Gal' but when put on stage, just sits there like a frog with a top hat on...
Had to pop in- that's one of my all time faves...
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vlad,what you say is true.while i was looking foreward to a new d.s.,i knew it wasn't a "done deal".i'm disappointed,but in truth i know a remake would never have supplanted o.s. in our hearts.
I feel your pain. I'm incredibly disappointed and could sure use some 'hugs'. :- What could have gone wrong? It seemed so promising and likely just a few short weeks ago. I was prepared to love it no matter what. You're right that the original Dark Shadows will never be supplanted in our hearts. It was unique and already talked about like 'folk-lore'. It probably had it's best shot going on The WB. From things I've read, The WB is more willing to take a chance on something not so mainstream if you will. Fox has already rejected it. Maybe it's just better to not get hopes and expectations up too high on word of any future DS projects so as to not get slapped down in the long run. I guess I can now fully concertrate on preparing to attend the DS Fest in NY without worry about the new show. I'm so ready for vacation!
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That would be one Phineas T. Frog from the classic WB cartoon 'One Froggy Evening' - you know the one where the construction worker finds a frog who occasionally (and very inconveniently) bursts into beautiful songs like 'Ragtime Gal' but when put on stage, just sits there like a frog with a top hat on...
Ummm, very sorry, Darren, but it's Michigan J. Frog, isn't it?
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The view that DS is a longshot *may* simply be this Variety reporter's opinion. An educated one, certainly - but an opinion nonetheless. And let's also still keep in mind that just a few days ago Variety's very same reporter issued 'a very strong caveat that what's "dead" today could be "the next 'Friends' " a week from now,' which may very well still be in effect. [wink2]
First off, let me make it clear that I'm still of the opinion that fans should be preparing themselves for the real possibilty that the DS pilot/series might never see the light of day (and keep in mind that I've basically been saying that all along - not just in light of recent reports). But on the other hand [b003], there's always hope until someone "officially" takes that hope away, and at this point no one has done that. So, with that in mind, for the fun of it I looked up what Variety reported last year prior to the networks' announcements of their schedules. Much of what was opined was quite correct. But much of it was completely dead wrong. Variety is not infallible - and the proof of that follows:
Posted: Sun., May 4, 2003, 10:00pm PT
Nets prep flight plans with pilots on tarmac
NBC getting solid buzz on star vehicles
By JOSEF ADALIAN, MICHAEL SCHNEIDER
With one week left before the Big Six nets begin unveiling their new fall skeds, a clearer picture of which pilots have a shot of snagging a greenlight has started to emerge.
Much can change between now and May 12, when NBC kicks off the annual upfront presentations to advertisers in New York.
A last-minute thumbs-up from the Bob Wrights and Michael Eisners of the world can send the cast of this week's seemingly ice-cold comedy pilot scrambling to pack for Gotham. Likewise, a batch of negative audience testing can move today's can't-miss contender to the also-ran list faster than you can say "midseason replacement."
Still, a survey of network execs and agency insiders shows a consensus starting to build about which would-be skeins seem to have landed in the finals of this year's pilot derby.
Since NBC goes first, it's no surprise buzz about the Peacock's pilots seems most solid.
Net has settled on about a half-dozen comedy contenders and a quartet of drama possibilities, many of them vehicles for well-known stars.
Execs happy at NBC
And for a change, Peacock suits won't have to force on the fake smiles when telling Madison Ave. buyers that they're pleased with this year's batch of new comedies. This year, that statement might actually prove true.
Leading the buzz parade on the yuks side: The remake of the BBC smash sexcom "Coupling" and the John Larroquette/Christine Baranski starrer "Happy Family." Both seem all but certain of getting series orders.
Peacock execs are also high on a pair of projects from Carsey-Werner-Mandabach starring Tracy Morgan and Whoopi Goldberg.
Morgan laffer -- which also lists NBC Studios, SNL Studios and 3 Arts as producers -- has the "Saturday Night Live" star as a Ralph Kramdenesque mechanic. Goldberg plays an ex-diva turned hotel operator.
Heather Locklear starrer "Once Around the Park" is also on the Peacock hot list, as is the Annie Potts/Timothy Busfield-led family comedy "Stuck in the Middle with You."
NBC execs also like "Come to Papa," a "Seinfeld"-like half-hour starring standup Tom Papa. It seems headed for midseason rather than fall, however.
On the drama side, the Alicia Silverstone romantic dramedy "Miss Match," from exec producers Darren Star and Jeff Rake, seems a sure bet for a series order. Peacock brass are also fond of Rob Lowe starrer "Lyon's Den," producer Gary Scott Thompson's "Las Vegas" and studio head-turned-producer Kerry McCluggages' "Homeland Security." It would be a surprise if NBC picked up more than two dramas for fall.
Over at ABC, there's also good comedy buzz, leading with "Platonically Incorrect."
The sitcom, which stars Tom Everett Scott and A.J. Langer as platonic best friends, has been described as a straight "Will & Grace." Show could potentially work as a strong companion to returning adult-leaning comedies such as "Less than Perfect."
"Hope" has hope
Meanwhile, the grapevine also has good things to say about "Hope & Faith," particularly given its solid leads, Kelly Ripa and Faith Ford. Laffer stars Ripa as a washed-up soap star who moves in with her housewife sister, played by Ford.
Also hot on the trail in comedy is the untitled Dan Finnerty project, also known as the "Dan Band" project, which stars Finnerty as a working class guy who winds up leading a cabaret show.
Also generating laughs: the "Notting Hill"-like Henchy/Pennette project, also known as "I'm with Her," starring Teri Polo; "These Guys," which is narrated by Tim Allen; and Michael J. Fox's "Hench at Home," which stars Craig Bierko and Fox's wife, Tracy Pollan.
On the drama side, buzz seems to be heaviest around "Karen Sisco," based on the female federal marshal character in the feature "Out of Sight." Also creating some noise: "The D.A.," about a district attorney (Steven Weber) who winds up teaming with a private investigator.
And then there's "The Flannerys," about a big-time lawyer who readjusts his life and decides to open a small practice in a shopping mall. "The Partners," from Touchstone, has also received good notice. Drama pilot revolves around a pair of female undercover detectives.
Fox, meanwhile, has already picked up two shows for what the net now refers to as its year-round sked: Sudser "The O.C." and eccentric hour "Wonder Falls."
Other hours generating heat include the Keyser/Lippman drama "No Place like Home," Steven Bochco's "NYPD 2069" and the actioner "True Calling."
On the comedy front, buzz continues to build for Molly Shannon starrer "Cracking Up," boasting an all-star behind the scenes lineup of producers -- including Mike White, the Weitz brothers and Brad Grey. Ditto for scribe Mitch Hurwitz's "Arrested Development"; "Senor White," from scribe Al Higgins and helmer Betty Thomas; and, perhaps for midseason, the Norm Macdonald starrer "A Minute with Stan Hooper."
CBS always keeps a tight lid on its development process, making early speculation something of a crapshoot.
Eye catches "Cold"
Still, Jerry Bruckheimer looks ready to cement his status as the Eye's Dick Wolf with tentatively-titled femme detective skein "Cold Cases." There's also positive talk about out-there hour "Joan of Arcadia"; the Joey Pants crime starrer "Street Boss" and the female buddy cop drama "Partners in Crime."
Comedy-wise, Eye suits seem impressed by the Nicole Sullivan laffer, the Jamie Tarses-produced "Crazylove" and Chuck Lorre's "2 1/2 Men," starring Charlie Sheen.
Over at the WB, the call of the jungle is loud and clear for "Tarzan and Jane," which leads the Frog's list of drama hotties. Basketball-themed hour "One Tree Hill," a new take on "MacGyver" and an Aaron Spelling-produced family drama also have buzz.
Yukking it up on the comedy front, Frogheads seem certain to greenlight a half-hour starring Anthony Anderson ("Barbershop"); Adam Sandler-produced "The Mayor," Holly Robinson Peete starrer "Like Family" and teen laffer "Exit 9" also are looking good.
Buzz was less clear over the weekend at UPN, which was still in the process of screening pilots.
Nonetheless, safe bets include the comedy "All of Us," given its auspices -- Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith. Also on the list, partly because of its big-name star, is "The Opposite Sex." Rapper Eve stars in the romantic comedy as a clothing designer.
On the drama side, the untitled Nanobot project -- now known as "Jake 2.0" -- appears to have the most momentum, perhaps because of its obvious potential behind existing sci-fi entry "Enterprise." Also hot are Aaron Spelling's new take on his "Hotel" franchise, as well as Joel Silver's "Newton."
UPN insiders, however, say everything's still in play at the netlet.[/b]
Date in print: Mon., May 5, 2003, Los Angeles
So, to tally up:
NBC: | Correct: | Wrong: | Half&Half |
| Coupling, Happy Family, Whoopi, Miss Match, Lyon's Den, Las Vegas | Once Around The Park, Stuck In The Middle With You, Come To Papa, Homeland Security | Tracy Morgan (held for mid-season) |
ABC: | Correct: | Wrong: | Half&Half |
| Hope & Faith, I'm With Her, Karen Sisco | Platonically Incorrect, "Dan Band," These Guys, Hench at Home, The Flannerys, The Partners | The D.A. (held until just recently) |
FOX: | Correct: | Wrong: | Half&Half |
| The OC, Tru Calling | No Place Like Home, NYPD 2069, Senior White | Wonderfalls (held for mid-season), Cracking Up (held for mid-season), Arrested Development (held for mid-season), A Minute With Stan Hooper (picked up for fall) |
CBS: | Correct: | Wrong: | Half&Half |
| Cold Case, Joan of Arcadia, Street Boss (which was retitled The Handler), 2 1/2 Men | Partners In Crime, Crazylove | (none) |
The WB: | Correct: | Wrong: | Half&Half |
| Tarzan, All About the Andersons, Like Family | Young MacGyver, Aaron Spelling drama, The Mayor, Exit 9 | One Tree Hill (originally held for mid-season but moved to fall after Fearless (which Variety didn't even mention) was pushed back after initially being picked up for fall) |
UPN: | Correct: | Wrong: | Half&Half |
| Jake 2.0, All of Us, The Opposite Sex (retitled Eve) | Hotel, Newton | (none) |
Quite clearly, nothing is over until it's actually over. And we don't seem to have reached that point just yet...
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It's not much guesswork at this point to say that the WB has not picked up DS. The buzz certainly has not suggested it. VARIETY's guess (and that of the trades in general) seems like a valid one at this point.
Nancy
In light of the fact that apparently most, if not all of the supposed insider info that's been posted on the WB's General board would certainly appear to be wrong, it's probably worth noting that the Variety piece is basing it's opinion on the belief that the WB is going with both Jack and Bobby and The Mountain and seemingly only those two dramas.
Now, they may very well have actual sources to confirm that, and I'll grant that I greatly respect Variety's reporting, but let's also keep in mind that they may have no way of knowing at this point that those are in fact the only two dramas the WB may be picking up. The view that DS is a longshot *may* simply be this Variety reporter's opinion. An educated one, certainly - but an opinion nonetheless. And let's also still keep in mind that just a few days ago Variety's very same reporter issued 'a very strong caveat that what's "dead" today could be "the next 'Friends' " a week from now,' which may very well still be in effect. [wink2]
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VARIETY's guess (and that of the trades in general) seems like a valid one at this point.
And it may very well be absolutely correct. But as their article from last year clearly shows, the trades aren't perfect forcasters by any means. And though it may actually be the case, no one appears willing to go on public or even private record to state flatly and in as many words that the pilot/series is dead so far as the WB is concerned. (Which in and of itself is a bit odd because, if indeed it is, what's the point of prolonging the agony? Well, unless they're sadistic. :- )
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Thanks for last year's article and analysis from Variety. That was helpful at least to me and I appreciated your effort.
Also, if it were literally dead, I would think we'd get an e-mail Shadowgram. Historically, they have been pretty good about getting out the "big" things right away.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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Earlier today it was confirmed that the WB has picked up The Mountain for 13 episodes, but this report on zap2it.com (http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|88080|1|,00.html) is the first to mention DS and LIS:
The future isn't looking bright for high profile franchise pilots for "Lost in Space" and "Dark Shadows."
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And it may very well be absolutely correct. But as their article from last year clearly shows, the trades aren't perfect forcasters by any means. And though it may actually be the case, no one appears willing to go on public or even private record to state flatly and in as many words that the pilot/series is dead so far as the WB is concerned. (Which in and of itself is a bit odd because, if indeed it is, what's the point of prolonging the agony? Well, unless they're sadistic. :- )
I think it's more along the lines of not thinking anyone is absolutely sitting on the edge of their seats waiting to find out. The production executives have an intellectual understanding fandoms and the devotion involved since they are the recipients of mail campaigns and monitor fan boards. What they don't really have is a fundamental respect for that devotion while it may be annoying at times (the extreme fans who will call non-stop to pester for information), that base is what keeps shows running for a long time and then going into syndication after it's initial run. It's the same kind of devotion whereby fans who have the series on tape or DVD will still turn on the television and watch the broadcast.
There is not a fundamental respect or understanding of that devotion and this is why I believe information that could be released is not right away to, as you said, just end the speculation.
Nancy
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The WBTV/John Wells Productions/DCP execs involved aren't quite the people I was referring to when I mentioned someone going on record. There are certainly members within DS fandom who would indeed know if the pilot is dead or not. And I think you and I both know that those same people have been contacted and that they have not confirmed the status of the pilot one way or another in as many words. I doubt anyone would argue against the idea that they're well aware of the fact that fans are indeed sitting on the edges of their seats waiting for news. And in their cases, the intellectual understanding and fundemental respect, or lack thereof, that you are probably right about in terms of at least some of the execs isn't quite at play.
Now, of course, it could be a simple case that these people within fandom have their hands tied and they're not actually allowed, for whatever reason, to reveal that the pilot is dead. Perhaps for some reason that we're not aware, that news can't come out until the 18th or after. But there is also that slim chance that the reason they don't comment is because the ultimate fate of the pilot is still in flux.
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Possibly good news. This article states that Dark Shadows and Lost In Space are still in contention for mid-season replacements.
www.tvweek.com/news/web051104.html#WB
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Thanks for the link, jimbo. The possibility that DS appears to still be in contention for a mid-season berth (or should that be birth? - as in the WB would be giving "birth" to it ;)) would definitely explain why the people I just referred to are not commenting on DS status just yet.
Apparently that slim chance is still alive...
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And, it could be that the decision-maker(s) haven't made the decision yet! Those who would be in the know don't have anything to "know." The fact that they've confirmed a couple of their new shows for next season would seem to indicate that they've definitely decided on those, but perhaps haven't finalized which other ones will join them.
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You may be right, Nelson, though I'm still not 100%...
I can see how I came up with Phineas Frog since its kind of a play on Jules Verne's AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS character..It's one of those things where its not actual mentioned in the cartoon, but is on plush toy tags and referred to in articles and such.
Thanks folks- a poster sent me a scan of the blue boy portrait from Shadowgram- thanks to all that emailed me about it..
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Thanks folks- a poster sent me a scan of the blue boy portrait from Shadowgram- thanks to all that emailed me about it..
Would the poster who sent the scan possibly consider submitting it to one of the forum moderators with a request to upload the image here?
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Why would a network make a final decision NOT to go with a show....and then say "...but don't tell anybody!"
And having been told by said network that their show is not making the schedule, why would the production company keep it a secret either? Wouldn't it be in their interest to let any other potential outlet know that the show is available?
If no one makes an official announcement, isn't that a clear indication that no absolutely final decision has been made?
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And having been told by said network that their show is not making the schedule, why would the production company keep it a secret either? Wouldn't it be in their interest to let any other potential outlet know that the show is available?
Well, the production company could still let other potential outlets know without goling public - that's common practice. That way, if they make a deal with another outlet, they can publicly play up that deal and downplay the initial pass.
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Would the poster who sent the scan possibly consider submitting it to one of the forum moderators with a request to upload the image here?
Well, unfortunately for people who haven't seen the picture, we wouldn't actually post any photos from the current batches of SGs because the issues are still available for purchase from Marcy Robin. ;)
The only way we'd consider posting something would be if it came from an SG issue that's out of print...
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The WBTV/John Wells Productions/DCP execs involved aren't quite the people I was referring to when I mentioned someone going on record. There are certainly members within DS fandom who would indeed know if the pilot is dead or not. And I think you and I both know that those same people have been contacted and that they have not confirmed the status of the pilot one way or another in as many words. I doubt anyone would argue against the idea that they're well aware of the fact that fans are indeed sitting on the edges of their seats waiting for news. And in their cases, the intellectual understanding and fundemental respect, or lack thereof, that you are probably right about in terms of at least some of the execs isn't quite at play.
Now, of course, it could be a simple case that these people within fandom have their hands tied and they're not actually allowed, for whatever reason, to reveal that the pilot is dead. Perhaps for some reason that we're not aware, that news can't come out until the 18th or after. But there is also that slim chance that the reason they don't comment is because the ultimate fate of the pilot is still in flux.
That's always possible, MB, but my feeling is that the people in fandom who do know have been told they cannot announce it until such and such a date. They may not understand the reasoning for that themselves but in order to keep the lines of communications open with these direct sources, as you know, you have to what they ask even if you don't see the point of keeping the news quiet. If they make the announce before getting the permission to do so, they stand to lose their credibility with the source. So like it or not, they have to wait even if the reason seems dumb.
Maybe things are in flux. I doubt it and would love to be proven wrong.
Nancy
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There's a brief article about the WB in today's L.A. Times Calendar section. (Thanks, Bette! :)) Will post it here since it's accessible to full-time subscribers only:
WB makes a 'Mountain'
"Reality" may be TV's current craze, but the WB Network isn't about to throw away its reputation as a haven for youth-oriented scripted drama. The network on Tuesday said the fall schedule will include 13 episodes of "The Mountain," starring Oliver Hudson of "Dawson's Creek" as a young man who takes over his family's ski resort. Barbara Hershey costars.
This is the second new drama picked up by the WB in advance of its official fall schedule announcement next week. It's also ordered "Jack & Bobby," with Christine Lahti as the mother of a future president. The WB--part owned by Tribune Co., parent company of The Times--needs to fill several scheduling holes, including one left by the departing "Angel," a spinoff of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." --Scott Collins
[/font][/size]
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my feeling is that the people in fandom who do know have been told they cannot announce it until such and such a date.
That sort of senario could very easily be the case when it comes to a public announcement from someone whose function it is to relay news to fandom at large. But I wasn't only referring to someone who would necessarliy fall into that category. ;)
Maybe things are in flux. I doubt it and would love to be proven wrong.
Well, don't get me wrong, I think we're on the same basic page when it comes to the pilot's chances. But, you know, it is possible that we're simply being too realistic for our own good. Yesterday's TV Week article would seem to indicate that, at least to the point it was written, the DS pilot's fate was still in flux. And combining that with a seeming unwillingness of people to even privately commit in as many words that the pilot is dead, I'm willing to concede that, no matter how slim I might consider the possibility, there may actually be more hope than what otherwise might be assumed from the various other reports we've been getting. :)
As I've said, only time will tell...
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my feeling is that the people in fandom who do know have been told they cannot announce it until such and such a date.
That sort of senario could very easily be the case when it comes to a public announcement from someone whose function it is to relay news to fandom at large. But I wasn't only referring to someone who would necessarliy fall into that category. ;)
That someone has to answer to other people who also tell that person what to do and when as well. Was that cryptic enough for you?
>:D
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, the damn thing could happen anyway. :-*
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I read something that was rather disheartening today. Maybe it was even mentioned already. During my lunch break at work, I killed time by doing some web-surfing and came upon the message board of a "Save Angel" site. Some of the things that were said; holy freholey. If those Angel fans are Baby Jane Hudson, we DS fans are Blanche - get ready to be fed dead parakeets and rats. Not only were they relishing in the possibility that the new DS might not make it, but they announced that they will see to it that it will never see the light of day, just out of vindictiveness of losing their favorite show. Some have called for a boycott of WB if it airs the new DS, and also writing to any sponsors of the show should it air and declaring a boycott of their products and services if they advertise on DS. And those were some of the nice things they said. I've never seen such nastiness.
But to cheer things up a bit, the school I worked at today had what was called a "Tea Party" for the little kids who are "Pen Pals" with local seniors who serve as their Pen-Pal Grandparents. The place was full of the little ones who proudly took their adoptive grandma's and grandpa's on tours, did arts-and-crafts projects with them (I helped out in that area), entertained them with song, and topped it off with cookies and "tea" (actually milk); they were just beaming, and the "grandma's" and "grandpa's" were equally thrilled by their pen-pal charges. It made me feel better after reading that awful stuff on that Angel website.
Gerard
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It's too bad that other Angel fans have to be so vindictive about Dark Shadows. You have to remember that a large portion of the fanbase of Angel are teenagers, which (no offense), not exactly a group known for showing restraint about their dislikes.
Personally, I'm a big fan of both shows. Even if the new Dark Shadows makes it to the air (yeah, right), ::) I simply don't understand how it is to blame for Angel's cancellation. Isn't that the fault of the suits over at the WB? And isn't that patently obvious to all?
Wonder what the Angel fans will have to say if they hear Dark Shadows wasn't picked up for the fall schedule.
- Cassandra Blair (who is only ever cheered up these days when she actually turns off the television.
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I've never seen such nastiness.
Now you can probably see why I've said that some of the Angel fans need to seriously limit their caffeine intake because they're bouncing off the walls with little provocation. :( But they're also a minority - a VERY vocal minority - but a minority nonetheless. The majority of Angel fans don't seem to have any ill will towards DS. Some even say that they hope DS does get a pick up and they can't begin to fathom the behavior of their brethren.
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I think the cancellation of "Angel" has done considerable harm to the chances of "Dark Shadows". After the hystrionic and sustained reaction its fans have put up, I suspect that the WB execs will be far more wary of the counter-productive aspects of picking up a show that brings an established fan-base.
I took a look at the primary "Save Angel" site and frankly it beggars belief - one day's campaign mission was to send Jordan Levin as many funeral wreaths as possible... And alarmingly many people with too much time on their hands seem happy to comply and fork over their money for the numerous other pointless campaign efforts.
After weeks of nuisance campaigns from these people, I suspect it's tarred all genre fans with the same brush. And with certain elements of DS fandom already planning "Save DS" campaigns, it looks like DS won't do anything to buck the trend. Personally, I find that whole rationale very difficult to follow... If we were midway through a season, fans would at least know what we were fighting for... But for the time being, the pilot is an unknown commodity, and I don't think protesting for something so vague does the show any favours. If you've seen it and passionately think it's the greatest thing on TV, then sure - but to me, begging for a reprieve just because it has the words "Dark Shadows" at the beginning simply isn't a good enough reason.
Groundbreaking it probably ain't, but the WB doubtless won't have Angel-esque grief waiting if it yanks "Jack and Bobby" after three weeks ::)
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I took a look at the primary "Save Angel" site and frankly it beggars belief - one day's campaign mission was to send Jordan Levin as many funeral wreaths as possible... And alarmingly many people with too much time on their hands seem happy to comply and fork over their money for the numerous other pointless campaign efforts.
After weeks of nuisance campaigns from these people, I suspect it's tarred all genre fans with the same brush. And with certain elements of DS fandom already planning "Save DS" campaigns, it looks like DS won't do anything to buck the trend.
As an embarrassed fan of Doctor Who when it was thought to have been cancelled in 1985, I am in complete agreement with you about how some fans of genre TV can react. The money spent on Save Angel campaigns greatly saddens me. All I can think of when I see that kind of money is how much more good it could have done a homeless shelter or a drug treatment program or any worthy charity. :(
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i've said this before,i've never seen "angel",but i gather it was about a vampire(s).but the very notion that a popular show would be canceled to make room for an at-the-time-not-even-filmed-pilot of another show is ridiculous.i don't see how one affects the other.obviously wb had their reasons for canceling it.and now that the new d.s. seems unlikely to ever hit the airwaves.angel fans will have to direct their disproportionate rage elsewhere. ???
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As an embarrassed fan of Doctor Who when it was thought to have been cancelled in 1985, I am in complete agreement with you about how some fans of genre TV can react. The money spent on Save Angel campaigns greatly saddens me. All I can think of when I see that kind of money is how much more good it could have done a homeless shelter or a drug treatment program or any worthy charity. :(
Well put, Nelson. When I read about the antics of just how far some fans will go to and spend over a television show you can't help but wonder how far just a quarter of that energy and money put into a homeless shelter, a Humane Society, spending an hour a week tutoring a kid or teaching an adult how to read . . . what could be accomplished with such a quarter of that determination, drive and money!!!! It blows the mind.
Nancy
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... All I can think of when I see that kind of money is how much more good it could have done a homeless shelter or a drug treatment program or any worthy charity. :(
Fact is there were some charity aspects of the campaign, a "blood" drive for the Red Cross which was done sometime in March I believe. There is a food drive that is actually close to raising $15,000 for the LA Food Bank. Click (http://www.angelsfooddrive.com/). And, $13,000 of the second advertising fund raising campaign was given to the International Red Cross.
A bit too hasty of judgment by just looking at maybe this gawd awful place (http://www.saveangel.org/) and not looking at the entire story like the accounting section of this site SavingAngel (http://www.savingangel.org/)? There may be a bit of confusion between "Save Angel" (bad site) and the "Saving Angel" (the good one) sites.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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I stand corrected, VictoriaWinters - thanks for that. I'm glad to see some wider good came out of all that activity.
I do think that my general concern still stands though - sustained fan campaigns like these do little to encourage network support for "cult" audience shows, and because of that, I do think that DS may have had a better chance without the Angel protests.
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It would seem that the campaign to 'Save Angel at the Expense of Dark Shadows' worked if Angel is reinstated. Who or what will Angel fans blame now that Dark Shadows is not likely to be picked up?
It seems ludicrous to think that a fan base for Angel is responsible for The WB having second thoughts about DS. Do they really have that much clout? Perhaps they do if that is the demographic that The WB really wants. Oh, I caught a few minutes of Angel (coincidently running the same time as Buffy) and it seems to be comedic in nature and not the drama I was expecting.
When all the dust settles I hope we will have access to the 'Blue Boy' pic of Newman and a complete description of the pilot.
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Just received this from a person who apparently heard it straight from the executive producer's mouth: DS is not going to be on the fall schedule. It's planning to be held as a mid-season replacement if one of the new series tanks.
I'd say this is a pretty reliable source.
--M
http://home.triad.rr.com/smrainey
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I, too, stand corrected, Victoria. Good to know, and I did not mean to tar every Angel fan with ths same brush (being a pretty rabid one myself :) ) And thinking about it, I do now recall reading about the blood drive. [vampy]
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The WB should air the pilot to see if it gets good ratings. This way they could get feedback on how people like the show and then they can decide if they should air the show as a mid-season replacement.
If they do decide to pass on the show I would like to see the show on any network; even NBC. I want to see this show; I want to know if it is good.
Misa
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Here's a thought that just crossed my mind. I still doubt it but hey, worth a try...
IF the WB is planning on saving DS for midseason, maybe that was the idea all along. Jordan Levin said a while back at the Winter TCA's that they're considering running a series for 11 weeks, then another for 11, etc., etc. and having shared timeslots. Maybe this is part of the plan for Dark Shadows. Guess we'll know soon enough. Unfortunately, most of what I'm hearing so far is doom and gloom, but who knows.
If they're saving it for midseason, that might not be a bad thing at all. More episodes would be completed, and the competition may be less (unless they put it opposite American Idol or something). And sometimes midseason shows are brought to the plate early in case something else fails (like One Tree Hill did this season when Fearless wasn't airable).
And I dunno. I think Jack and Bobby could do well (though I'm not watching) but The Mountain sounds like a mountain of crap.
I'm disappointed in hearing how some of the Angel fans feel about New DS, and how they're reveling in it, because if it were up to me, I'd think we should all work together. I understand the business reasoning behind canning Angel, but still, I do understand how they feel, because we're sort of feeling a betrayal now too (or at least I am) if New DS doesn't hit the air.
Hm... guess we'll know more soon...
-- Craig
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Also forgot to add... maybe these Angel fans are just bitter, because you know that in 30 years there won't be Buffy/Angel Festivals in the way DS has endured ;)
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If there aren't, the Buffy and Angel fans will have no one but themselves to blame, because those sorts of things are always fan driven.....and I'm not sure why you think they won't be just as driven as any DS or Star Trek fan might......?
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I just don't think Buffy and Angel will be as timeless 30 years from now as DS has been. All of the pop culture jokes, etc., while highly amusing now, might totally fall flat in the future.
I could be totally wrong. That's just my impression :)
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But really enthusiastic fandom is created by ORIGINAL fans first....and they'll always remember what was so funny about the humor in the first place.
Just by way of example....my daughter's school play this past Fall was a theatrical version of "Laugh In"....because much of the dialogue was from the original, the parents in the audience were hysterical, because we remembered the 60's.
I think a show like "Buffy" (don't know much about "Angel" frankly) will always resonate with teenagers because issues of self-esteem, friendship, loyalty and loss are very real.....and while the now-grown up original fans are watching, their kids will pick up on it as well. ;)
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Since we are on the topic of Angel, today's article discusses the future of the show and a DS WB reference.
www.sunherald.com/
Sorry. Page must have moved already. To find article type in Angel at site's search articles engine. Article:"Angel ends with Vampire fans in mourning for the Undead".
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Got a 404 URL on that, Jim. I looked around on the Entertainment page but could find no sign of the article.
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This direct link will work:
'Angel' ends with vampire fans in mourning for the undead (http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/entertainment/8653564.htm)
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Thanks for that, darling.
[spoiler]I thought that at this point in the game, the journo was being exceptionally kind in describing Boreanaz' character as a "youthful-looking 250-year-old vampire." Tuning in occasionally this past year, I've been shocked at how worn-out DB has looked. I hope everything is OK with his life and health. I well remember the first time he showed on on BtVS and how charming and beautiful he was. sigh.
[/spoiler]
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Given that we've seen time and again that reporters' phrasings can often be maddeningly misleading, it probably wouldn't be wise to read too much into this report from Variety, but it is intriguing:
Posted: Thurs., May 13, 2004, 5:01pm PT
Kazuaki Kiriya, Alec Newman
By JILL FEIWELL
Japanese filmmaker, photographer and musicvid helmer Kazuaki Kiriya has signed with Endeavor.
...
Also inking with Endeavor is Scottish actor Alec Newman, who toplines the forthcoming WB series "Dark Shadows."
Newman is managed by Acronym Management.[/b]
Date in print: Fri., May 14, 2004
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it probably wouldn't be wise to read too much into this report from Variety, but it is intriguing
Well MB it seems to me that this story compliments or gives credence to that earlier article referring to the future sale of the DS series to the German channel. Of course the latter news was before the WB's screening of the DS pilot. I tell you one thing, the WB would make great poker players.
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I tell you one thing, the WB would make great poker players.
:D Agreed.
It's also yet one more example of why we shouldn't be over analyzing every report that comes out regarding the DS pilot or any of the decisions the WB is making. The best thing has always been to just wait until the 18th when we'll learn what's actually going on from the WB themselves because they're the only source that counts...
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Here's an article from sun-sentinel.com about the upcoming networks upfronts that mentions DS in two spots: Networks face upfront battle (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/entertainment/tv/sfl-tvtjupfrontsmay16,0,4797340.column)
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Well! That was interesting. Could he know something? How will The WB announce the schedule on the 18th? Will announcements be made on the shows like EOnline, ET or Access Hollywood? Since two drama hours have already been allocated on The WB for Jack & Jill(?) and Mountain it doesn't look like there is an open slot for DS.
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Could he know something?
I doubt it. I think at this point it's safe to assume that those who know won't say....and those who say, don't know.
I think I'll make this last article absolutely the very last one I read on the subject.
When one of our moderators tells us what's been officially announced by the WB network, I'll consider myself notified.
>:(
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I went to the Motor City Comic Con in Novi, Michigan, today and talked to Kate Jackson and here is what she told me about the pilot: First, I asked her if she was approached to be in it and she said yes, she was, but she was busy shooting something else and couldn't do it. (Sob! Cool that she was asked, though!) Now here is the bad news. She said the pilot didn't go over well with the WB and it was overbudget and the shooting went past deadline, so the WB passed on it. Sob!!! But then she did say something hopeful about maybe it can be revived somewhere else (implying that it was being shopped around, I believe). I think she said something about that they were reshooting it, but this all went so fast and I was trying to coherently ask these important questions while I was failing to hide the fact that I was totally gushing and freaking out over the fact that I was meeting KATE JACKSON!!!! :D (LOL!)
Anyway, she was very nice. I asked her if she'd ever consider going to the Fests and she said she's been busy working in the past and hasn't been able to come to them, but she might have time to start coming to them in the near future. She said she's in contact with some of the other cast and they've told her that they enjoy coming to them and that the fans are really nice. She did a Q&A in the speakers room and told the story about hitting Jim Storm with the wrong end of the breakaway vase and knocking him out for real -- LOL! She also talked about "Charlie's Angels" and said she and Farrah Fawcett and Jaclyn Smith are good friends and she's Jaclyn's daughter's godmother. She said they have a project going to bring back the original Angels and they've all signed up for it (tv movie, I think) but she can't say anything more about it yet.
(OT -- I also met Marc Singer and got my picture taken with him -- ooh baby!! What a cutie! And so nice. He called me Darlin' and Sweet Thing. Sigh... LOL!! He said they're making a new "V" for fall of 2005 -- sounds like a miniseries that might lead to a series. I also talked to Dean Haigland, who was very friendly and said they want to make the second "X Files" movie a lot "darker" -- darker even than the "Home" episode -- sounds cool! He said they'd be bringing the Lone Gunmen back -- "You didn't see any bodies, did you?" Ha! There we go!)
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Thanks Mary. Finally, someone not afraid to tell what they know, it's like a breath of fresh air.
Good going.
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Thanks Mary. Finally, someone not afraid to tell what they know, it's like a breath of fresh air.
Good going.
You're welcome. Glad to help!
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deleted
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First, I asked her if she was approached to be in it and she said yes, she was, but she was busy shooting something else and couldn't do it
Hmmm - what could she have been shooting? Third Watch was shot before the pilot and there was no announcement of Ms. Jackson working on another project. And who would she have played - Old (Wo)Man on the train? [hdscrt]
the shooting went past deadline
And that seems like an odd claim. Particularly when we've been led to believe that the shoot finished on time.
I don't know - her story seems fishy to me...
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KJs story is a bit all over the place- some accurate, some not. The shoot did go over by 1 day- it ended on a Friday instead of the original Thursday, but they are not reshooting the pilot. Yeesh!
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Thanks Mary. Finally, someone not afraid to tell what they know, it's like a breath of fresh air.
Good going.
You're welcome. Glad to help!
Thanks too Mary for having the courage to post the news that some of the members here knew for a period of time but were unable to communicate that to us, which would have been the right thing to do on behalf for us long suffering fans.
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KJs story is a bit all over the place- some accurate, some not. The shoot did go over by 1 day- it ended on a Friday instead of the original Thursday, but they are not reshooting the pilot. Yeesh!
Thanks for the information Darren. Since you opened the door a bit, and out of respect for us fans here, can you say what is correct in cousin Mary's posting? For example, since the WB passed on the pilot, have they totally abandoned the DS development project or are they seriously considering DS as a mid-season replacement?
If the WB owns the rights to the pilot, is Dan Curtis permitted to shop the filmed pilot to another network and/or is he even permitted to attempt to sell the DS concept to another network-some other poster on a different message board stated that the WB owns the rights to the entire DS concept for the next five years.
Any additional information you are able to provide will be greatly appreciated.
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BTW, I forgot to mention in my con report that someone at KJ's Q&A told her about the NODS restoration project and asked her if she would be willing to redo her dialogue, and she didn't seem to be aware of the project but responded pretty enthusiastically about being willing to participate if asked.
(I also made a small error in my OT -- I got my picture taken with Dean H., not Marc S. -- guess it was just wishful remembering on my part -- LOL! Although...Dean H. got his hair cut and looks pretty cute and was very nice!! Ha! Anyway, suddenly remembered this morning that I wrote it wrong -- oops!)
(When I get my pictures developed I will try to figure out how to post the KJ ones here, but I still have 14 more shots on the roll to go -- ack!)
BTW, I didn't ask KJ what part they wanted her to play in the pilot -- I was afraid I was probably already interrogating her too much as it was! LOL! -- But could she have been offered the part of Elizabeth before Blair Brown was? It just seemed like a logical choice to me, since she would be the most well-known female actress from the original series.
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BTW, I didn't ask KJ what part they wanted her to play in the pilot -- I was afraid I was probably already interrogating her too much as it was! LOL! -- But could she have been offered the part of Elizabeth before Blair Brown was? It just seemed like a logical choice to me, since she would be the most well-known female actress from the original series.
Perhaps. But maybe it's just me, but as big a KJ fan as I am, I don't see her as Liz. She just doesn't seem to fall into the same type of category as, say, Jean Simmons or Blair Brown. Though, of course, TPTB behind the pilot may have seen her differently and may have actually made a serious offer to her to play Liz.
But that being said, I've been thinking about her two Third Watch episodes and it could be possible that her participation there might have conflicted with the pilot at one point. I was thinking of the pilot's actual start date of April 2nd - but we'd seen reports that the original start date had supposedly been March 22. And according to the TV production chart on Variety's Web site, Third Watch was already on hiatus as of April 5th, which, considering that she appeared in the next to last episode, would mean that the last date KJ might have been working on Third Watch was probably on or about March 25th.
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gone...but not forgotten...
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I can't comment, yet on other things. Sorry.
While it's certainly appreciated, there's really no need to apologize, Darren. As Midnite has explained, the admins/mods of dsboards fully understand why people would chose not to publicly reveal info when/if they've been sworn not to - nor would we expect them to. :)
Odd, though since KJs been approached about the NODS work several times and as recent as last week...Curioser and Curioser.
Indeed...
I know they offered Liz to ... Jane Seymour
That's wild. Just before we learned that Blair Brown had been cast, we were discussing how Seymour might have made a great Liz. :)
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Hello Darren Gross,
Do you know if they asked Kathryn Leigh Scott if she'd like to try for the part of Liz?
Also do you know who else tried out for some of the other parts?
Misa
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deleted
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I can't comment, yet on other things. Sorry.
Odd, though since KJs been approached about the NODS work several times and as recent as last week...Curioser and Curioser.
I know they offered Liz to ... Jane Seymour
Holy cats! Why do Darren's posts keep getting deleted? What in the world is going on?!
So KJ has been approached about NODS before? What has her response been? Just trying to figure out why she acted like she didn't know about it yesterday.
OK, now I'm wondering, since the role of Liz was offered to these name actresses who turned it down, and, like, Jane Seymour has worked with DC before in "War and Remembrance" and sent him a video congratulations at his tribute, and plus the two directors who either turned it down or were allegedly busy with something else at the time, now I'm wondering if there was some inkling, for some reason unknown to us, even before the pilot was filmed that it wasn't going to turn out well?? Or if there was something else going on behind the scenes that we don't know about that would have led all these people to turn it down?? (Jane Seymour would have been so perfect as Liz! Sob!! :'() (Or is all this coincidence and I'm making a big conspiracy theory out of nothing? LOL!) At any rate, KJ sounded very enthusiastic about the idea of a new DS! :D
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Ve haf vays of making you tahk, Darren!
By the way, does anyone remember that hysterical skit on The Carol Burnette Show where Harvey Corman played a captured American soldier during WWII and I believe it was Tim Conway who played the Nazi interrogator? Tim Conway (if it was him) placed a Hitler puppet on his hand and began to tap Harvey Corman on the head with a pencil held in the hand puppet. It was a riot - not only was the audience cracking up, but the two actors kept laughing as well at the sight of that Hitler hand puppet holding the pencil. I keep hoping to catch the skit on the Carol Burnette reruns on TV Land.
Gerard
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Holy cats! Why do Darren's posts keep getting deleted? What in the world is going on?!
When the admins/moderators delete a post, the entire post is removed and all the replies move up in order. But if a poster decides to edit out his/her own message, they're forced by the system to leave some content in the message body. Currently, there's no time limit on members making their own post modifications.
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Excerpt from ShadowGram--
Number 116. May 17, 2004.
******************************************************************
Hello, Dark Shadows Fan,
ShadowGram (SG) announces the following breaking news for Dark Shadows (DS).
--- NEW DS IN JEOPARDY
Unfortunately, after all the anticipation and publicity, the WB Network is not expected to pick up the proposed new DS series for the fall schedule. The 1-hour pilot was screened by the network executives, who have apparently decided to take the network in another direction this fall with more family-oriented dramas such as their existing programs "7th Heaven," "Everwood," and "One Tree Hill." The WB makes the official announcement of its fall schedule tomorrow, May 18, though it has already been confirmed they are picking up a couple of other new dramas for the fall.
The pilot-making process utilized by the television networks is an often-frustrating situation for those involved with creating the programming. Networks order one sample episode -- a pilot -- of more shows than their schedule will allow and then decide which ones they feel have the strongest potential. As a result, many promising programs never even get on the air.
The WB can still order DS as a mid-season replacement, but that is not expected. The producers of the pilot -- Warner Bros TV/Dan Curtis Productions/John Wells Productions -- will pursue all available options, including the possibility of placing the program on another network.
SG will provide updates as soon as they become available.
The complete update is available here:
ShadowGram Update #116
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Thanks Midnite for posting the Shadowgram update.
The article stated that the DS producers WILL pursue placing the program on another network. Just wondering if the producers have already tested the waters and none of the networks have shown any interest? On the bright side the WB is not going to prevent the DS producers from trying to sell the pilot to another network.
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Hopefully, we'll find out exactly why the WB passed on the pilot. I would be very interested in learning why, and if the folks (that may be) shopping it to other networks are making any changes to the pilot as a result of the WB's pass.
It would be great if they could show the pilot at the fest, so we could see it for ourselves and perhaps come to our own conclusions. It would make for a fabuolous discussion, IMO.
If the new DS does make it to prime time, it will be interesting to see if there are any cast changes.
All this and still no official word from the WB. ::)
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All this and still no official word from the WB. ::)
The WB presents its 2004/5 schedule tomorrow in Madison Square Garden.
A Variety article that appeared last night, however, discusses the WB's Fall schedule. It states that the WB is seeking to improve its numbers after they fell last year, and as a result will present more reality shows, fewer repeats, and "will likely rest shows like 'Everwood' in midseason by either launching new dramas or reality shows in those slots, and franchise mania is over."
The story is here: Frog dives into reality (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117905061?categoryid=1071&cs=1).
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Oops! Apparently, yes, I was making a big conspiracy theory out of nothing! Sorry. Now I see that the passing on the pilot was all the stupid Frog's fault!! >:( (LOL!)
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I'd likely place the blame on the pilot itself. It will be interesting to see how the discussion shifts once official word of a pass is out.
Let the witch hunt begin... ::)
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Let the witch hunt begin... ::)
watch it, buster......
[witch]
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I'd likely place the blame on the pilot itself. It will be interesting to see how the discussion shifts once official word of a pass is out.
Let the witch hunt begin... ::)
I agree Dom. For the WB to not even consider DS as a mid-season replacement, the WB executives must have been terrified, not in the way we would have preferred, when they screened the pilot. Of course at this point it is easy to second guess the decisions that were made. Did the DS pilot stand a better chance of success if Rob Bowman or Dan Curtis directed the pilot? If the producers had more time to film the pilot would have they produced a better product? Who knows.
It would be nice to hear not only from the WB but also directly from John Wells Productions as I have to assume he is taking the lead in attempting to find a new home for DS. Just wonder how the WB will respond to questions asked tommorow about the DS pilot and how they are going to try to save face. Time will tell, hopefully.
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Will anyone here on the forum be attending the WB announcement tomorrow and be asking questions about the future of the pilot??
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Did the DS pilot stand a better chance of success if Rob Bowman or Dan Curtis directed the pilot?
Any director is likely to bring a different vision to a project than any other director might - though whether it's "better" is a purely subjective opinion. But lets keep in mind that the WB's decision may had had much less to do with how the pilot turned out and more to do with their reluctance to go with "franchise" material. Despite how disappointing their decision is for all of us, a return to the more relationship type shows that have always brought them their biggest success would seem to be a very smart decision on their part.
If the producers had more time to film the pilot would have they produced a better product?
But as for time, as I've previously posted, the pilot was given an amazing amount of time to shoot because its shooting schedule was to last 15 days (and went 16), while the two hour NBC pilot was shot in only 18.
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I agree - I don't think that the director had anything to do with the decision... I think it's far more a case of circumstance.
Look at television this season, and you'll see that reality is in... Dark Shadows is many things, but realistic ain't one of them. Added to that is the problem that it doesn't easily fall into any of the typical WB drama formulas. With those factors and the shift in emphasis overall for the network, I think the show became a very tough sell.
I don't think it's anyone's fault - if it had happened a year ago, I suspect the pilot probably would have had no problem getting a timeslot.
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It was actually scheduled for 14 days and went 15.
The last day was supposed to be a Thursday (actually early Friday AM), but ended up being Friday (actually early Saturday morning).
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Any director is likely to bring a different vision to a project than any other director might - though whether it's "better" is a purely subjective opinion. But lets keep in mind that the WB's decision may had had much less to do with how the pilot turned out and more to do with their reluctance to go with "franchise" material. Despite how disappointing their decision is for all of us, a return to the more relationship type shows that have always brought them their biggest success would seem to be a very smart decision on their part.
The WB went on record by saying they realized how much potential DS had to offer the network and also stated that it was one of its highest priorities. The WB also went on record by saying that there was room on its schedule for two vampire series. The script was then approved for filming. It just seems a bit odd to me that subsequently, in a very short period of time, the WB simply changed its mind after they screened the pilot independent of the quality of the pilot. I do not accept that argument in total. I assume that it was a combination of factors as to why the WB passed on the pilot and one of them was that they were not happy with the pilot for whatever reason. I do not know if a different director would have brought a different outcome. I think a strong filmed pilot would have convinced the network to take a chance on DS especially if it was one of its highest priorities. I simply believe that the WB had DS penciled in on the fall schedule despite its family oriented programming. I am sure, however, that the WB will not say that they were unhappy with the pilot at tommorows announcement. No network will criticize a studio especially if they are continuing to do business with. All of our posts here are speculative and we may never know the real reason why DS never saw the light of day on the WB.
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It was actually scheduled for 14 days and went 15.
Oh, OK - I was going by the timeframe we'd discussed back in March. :)
But still, even the originally alotted 14 days to shoot an hour pilot seems like a luxury when compared to shooting the two hour '90 pilot in only 18.
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God, how I hate those "reality" shows, which are anything but, by every indication I've seen. Hard to believe that audience burnout hasn't already set in.
--M
http://home.triad.rr.com/smrainey
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It just seems a bit odd to me that subsequently, in a very short period of time, the WB simply changed its mind after they screened the pilot independent of the quality of the pilot.
Actually, before they'd even screened the DS pilot, the WB had already been giving strong indications in the trades that they were moving toward relationship dramas and reality programming. (We merely chose to overlook that for the most part.) And while it's true that the change of direction happened after all the favorable things had been said about DS, it wasn't really an abrupt change of direction because the signs of it have been reported for well over a month now.
As I'd said in one of my posts that tried to explain how badly the odds are stacked against any pilot's chance of being picked up, at some point during its development every pilot has favorable buzz surrounding it. Otherwise, what would be the sense of it having been greenlit in the first place? But the unfortunate fact is that the openings on a network's schedule versus the number of pilots it commisions is always widely disproportionate. And another fact is that often times a simple change in direction IS the ONLY reason one pilot gets picked over another. In a perfect world, an expectation that every pilot that turns out great will get picked up would be a wonderful one - but in the real world, as unfair as it may seem, that simply isn't the case.
All of our posts here are speculative
Exactly.
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But still, even the originally alotted 14 days to shoot an hour pilot seems like a luxury when compared to shooting the two hour '90 pilot in only 18
True, but that was with Dan 'one-take's good enough' Curtis... ;D
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Speaking of which... I rewatched the 1991 pilot recently and I swear it has more boom mikes in shot than *any* episode of the original series...
As the saying goes, the more things change...
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Hopefully, we'll find out exactly why the WB passed on the pilot. I would be very interested in learning why, and if the folks (that may be) shopping it to other networks are making any changes to the pilot as a result of the WB's pass.
It would be great if they could show the pilot at the fest, so we could see it for ourselves and perhaps come to our own conclusions. It would make for a fabuolous discussion, IMO.
If the new DS does make it to prime time, it will be interesting to see if there are any cast changes.
All this and still no official word from the WB. ::)
If they want to go 'family entertainment' then our beloved dysfunctional Collinses family and relations doesn't fit their criteria.
I'm with you. I do hope that the pilot or even clips of it will be shown at the fest.
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God, how I hate those "reality" shows, which are anything but, by every indication I've seen. Hard to believe that audience burnout hasn't already set in.
Well 'reality' show burnout is beginning to hit me. I watched both the Average Joe's, Big Brother House, American Idol, Survivor and The Amazing Race, America's Next Top Model and The Apprentice. I'm finally burnt out or at least close to it. Now as far as dramas go, I think I can go there as long as it's not about lawyers, cops, doctors and forensic scientists!!!
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Speaking of which... I rewatched the 1991 pilot recently and I swear it has more boom mikes in shot than *any* episode of the original series...
As the saying goes, the more things change...
That is so funny. I do remember a boom right after the opening scene I believe. Wonder if that was Curtis' subconscious tribute to the original series. lol
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that was with Dan 'one-take's good enough' Curtis... ;D
[lghy] Yeah, that's certainly his reputation. ;)
But I also seem to recall a TV Guide article that described DC doing some uncredited directing of the '91 series finale in which he complained that Roy Thinnes and Ben Cross just weren't giving enough to Trask's "farewell" scene - so even DC isn't always immune to thinking the first time isn't good enough. [wink2]
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from Stephen Mark Rainey
God, how I hate those reality shows, which are anything but, by every indication I've seen.
I've prided myself on never watching any reality show. Then one night, while channel surfing, I caught "Family Plots" and got hooked. It's on A&E Mon. nights--it's on tonight at 9:00 EST. Never would have thought I would like a show about a mortuary. >:D
About the DS pilot--I'm disappointed but it wasn't shaping up as I would have liked. Probably like a lot of fans of the original series it would never meet my expectations. I speculate (without having seen the pilot) that they tried to introduce too many storylines (the Vicky story, and Barnabas and Angelique) crammed into one 2 hour (?) show.
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i also pride myself in that i have not fallen into the bottomless pit of "reality-t.v."(although i do spend alot of time watching vids. of a 35yr. old soap opera,but that's another story).anyhow,if wb is sinking further into "reality's" quicksand they might want to remember that those shows are contests and have virtually no value in terms of syndication or video/dvd sales.they're only good once(if that).whereas a good drama like o.d.s.(or the x-files etc.)have huge value in terms of syndication and vid/dvd sales.i wasn't even born when d.s. ran originaly,but have spent alot of money on videos,books etc.wb execs and dan curtis should think about that before totally scrapping the idea of a new show. :P
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The WB posted its Fall schedule ...
http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Special/0,11116,171792,00.html (http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Special/0,11116,171792,00.html)
... if anybody cares. ::)
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It looks like all safe and boring shows. I'm really going to miss the Whedonverse.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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From The WB Press Release (http://www.thewb.com/PressRelease/Index/0,8341,172655,00.html)--
MIDSEASON PROGRAMS INCLUDE NEW REALITY SERIES FROM PRODUCER MARK BURNETT, HALF-HOUR COMEDY "SHACKING UP," DRAMAS "ROCKY POINT" AND "GLOBAL FREQUENCY" AND REALITY SERIES FROM MIKE FLEISS, BRUCE NASH, JAMIE KENNEDY AND RDF
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The WB's fall schedule and mid-season pick ups are just more proof not to believe the hype surrounding the pilots. The two pilots with the biggest early buzz and that many thought were no brainers for the fall, DS and LIS, are nowhere to be seen. Another show that got good buzz a bit later on and that many predicted would be picked up, Prodigy, is also nowhere to be seen. And shows that got practically no attention, Rocky Point and Global Frequency (whose pilot won't even be shot until summer), are still alive...
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I would like to think that out of respect for the DS fans, that John Wells and Dan Curtis Productions will make a statement indicating what plans they have, if any, for the future of the pilot.
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The latest SG update has already said that "The producers of the pilot -- Warner Bros TV/Dan Curtis Productions/John Wells Productions -- will pursue all available options, including the possibility of placing the program on another network." SG also said that they'll "provide updates as soon as they become available." I wouldn't expect to hear anything more for the near future. If something works out, we'll certainly get the details. But I wouldn't necessarily expect to get a detailed report should nothing come of the efforts to find another home for the show. The more likely event would be a simple report saying that they're disappointed but nothing worked out...
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The latest SG update has already said that "The producers of the pilot -- Warner Bros TV/Dan Curtis Productions/John Wells Productions -- will pursue all available options, including the possibility of placing the program on another network." SG also said that they'll "provide updates as soon as they become available." I wouldn't expect to hear anything more for the near future. If something works out, we'll certainly get the details. But I wouldn't necessarily expect to get a detailed report should nothing come of the efforts to find another home for the show. The more likely event would be a simple report saying that they're disappointed but nothing worked out...
That being said and understood, I still would prefer to hear from the DS production companies.
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That being said and understood, I still would prefer to hear from the DS production companies.
I can understand your hope, but we have heard from them via SG. SG gets their info directly from DCP. And more than likely there's really nothing more to say at this point.
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I can understand your hope, but we have heard from them via SG. SG gets their info directly from DCP. And more than likely there's really nothing more to say at this point.
Understood. Just to make sure we are on the same page, I would of course prefer to have Shadowgram be the one to print and relay any statements from the production companies to us. Just wanted to be clear on my desire to hear from DCP/JWP in this manner and hopefully it will be soon.
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That being said and understood, I still would prefer to hear from the DS production companies.
You're not likely too as the production companies believe the news it out and through plenty of long standing credible resources. Generally speaking, production companies simply do not have the manpower to all keep interested parties apprised of developments or discuss final results. :(
Nancy
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And when was the last time DCP mentioned the "proposed DS Broadway musical." That one (thank goodness) disappeared quietly. . . ;)
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SciFiWire reports that Science Fiction & Fantasy fans were surprised not to see DS, LIS or the rumored Angel movies on the WB's schedule:
WB Light On SF&F Fare (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-05/19/11.45.tv)
Apparently they weren't paying attention during the last week and a half...
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Let the wake begin - at least so far as the WB is concerned. Here are a pair of articles mentioning the failure of DS to get picked up:
Must-wait-and-see TV (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/story/194002p-167646c.html)
Entertainment News (http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/entertainment/1084959286154460.xml)
(This one requires you to enter your zip code, year of birth, and sex before you can read it)
Hailing Frequencies, Issue #250 (http://scifi.about.com/blhail250.htm)
(Scroll down to MISC)
Also:
This article dated today, seems to suggest that the people involved with the Lost In Space pilot are very confident and/or are oblvious to what is going on with the WB recently, that its pilot will go to series.
http://www.syfyportal.com/article.php?id=1362
They may still be oblivious. Just for the fun of it I went over to the Sy Fy Portal site to see what they were saying about the fate of LIS and there's a report dated yesterday indicating that TPTB behind the show feel that the WB is still interested in it. Apparently the showrunner quit over "creative differences" and their belief is that an inability to find a suitable replacement is all that kept them off of the WB's fall schedule - and as soon as they find a "qualified writer/producer," the show will be back on track for mid-season. That would certainly fly in the face of reports that the WB has turned its back on "franchise" shows. And the report is quick to conclude with the caveat that all this info comes from "the crew of the show" and "no official announcement has been made by The WB." So, either the show's crew really is lost in their own fantasy space world, or the reports of the death of franchise series at the WB are a load of bull....
You can check out the entire article here (http://www.syfyportal.com/article.php?id=1383)
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...
So, either the show's crew really is lost in their own fantasy space world, or the reports of the death of franchise series at the WB are a load of bull....
You can check out the entire article (URL)
MB, your link brought me to an article on "Lost in Space," and all related links from that page are also to articles on "Lost in Space." ::)
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You can check out the entire article (URL)
MB, your link brought me to an article on "Lost in Space,"
That's exactly what you should have been taken to - that link was to the LIS article that I'd summarized. :)
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Just some thoughts...
What impact will the WB's passing on the DS pilot have on the HODS/NODS restoration project? Will the new interest generated by the WB DS pilot be sufficient to have WB now support the project?
Just how does a studio shop a filmed pilot to another network and how do they try to generate interest? Does the production company make a formal presentation to the other networks or is it as simple as using the telephone? Just curious.
How soon will the DS actors be released from their WB contracts? I need to assume that the window to shop a pilot must be small because of this time constraint.
Will Fox-TV bite again? I was recently reminded how several years ago Fox-TV ordered a new DS pilot script. Wonder if they still have an interest in DS?
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I believe Wb television makes a formal presentation to other networks to see if they are interested and then takes it from there.
The WB passing on the pilot has a huge effect on the restoration...Hopes for it essentially have gone down in flames along with the pilot...
If a series had been picked up or if another network picks it up, that would change things drastically, but as it is, the pilots failure make restoration seem even less likely now.
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That's exactly what you should have been taken to - that link was to the LIS article that I'd summarized. :)
Oh! Sorry, guess I was reading quickly and assumed that the third article you referred to was also about DS!
[blshy]
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I believe Wb television makes a formal presentation to other networks to see if they are interested and then takes it from there.
The WB passing on the pilot has a huge effect on the restoration...Hopes for it essentially have gone down in flames along with the pilot...
If a series had been picked up or if another network picks it up, that would change things drastically, but as it is, the pilots failure make restoration seem even less likely now.
Sorry to hear that. It seems the WB has shattered more than our hearts. Hopefully they will be eager and successful in finding a home for DS.
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I believe Wb television makes a formal presentation to other networks to see if they are interested and then takes it from there.
Any idea of when the formal presentation will be taking place?
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Who knows? Whenever they arrange appropriate meetings with other networks, or officially decide against using it for mid-season.
By formal presentation, I don't mean public presentation, I mean 10 execs in suits showing it to 15 other execs in suits and seeing if anyone bites.
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Well, after all the hype ... erm, I mean INFORMATION released about this, it would be nice if some kind, connected soul would arrange for the pilot to be shown at the DS Festival this Summer. just so we could see what all the fuss was about.
Not expecting it to happen... just saying it would be nice.
G.
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Wouldn't it be unlikely for them to screen it at the Festival if they're still trying to get it on the air somewhere else? If that's the case, I could live with not seeing it in August.
But if it's clear that it's not going to be picked up anywhere else, then I'm with you....let us see it in Tarrytown!!
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Check out the news page of my site to see a new photograph from the pilot:
http://www.collinwood.net
:)
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Wouldn't it be unlikely for them to screen it at the Festival if they're still trying to get it on the air somewhere else? If that's the case, I could live with not seeing it in August.
But if it's clear that it's not going to be picked up anywhere else, then I'm with you....let us see it in Tarrytown!!
In Shadowgram #101 April, 2004 edition on page 7, under Festival events, "exclusive preview of the WB DS pilot". So at least we will see something from the pilot at the Fest. Hopefully, the preview will be for another network.
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Check out the news page of my site to see a new photograph from the pilot:
Great photo, Stuart!
And I keep meaning to post that I'm both intrigued and horrified by some of the things Mark Verheiden said in the exceprts you've posted from his SFX article. His remarks certainly grabbed the attention of the heretic in me. :D
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Be a sport... which aspects horrified you? ;)
I was heartened by his comment that: "I want to make the characters, old and new, feel real within the the context of the show, so people can empathise with them and understand their situations."
I think that's something that the 1991 series could have done with a lot more of. The idea that *no one* seems to have any comment or opinion on Michael Woodard being turned into a vampire and bloodily staked whatsoever - least of all Julia - seems absolutely lunatic in retrospect.
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I was heartened by his comment that: "I want to make the characters, old and new, feel real within the the context of the show, so people can empathise with them and understand their situations."
Yes, I was very pleased to read that too.
I think that's something that the 1991 series could have done with a lot more of. The idea that *no one* seems to have any comment or opinion on Michael Woodard being turned into a vampire and bloodily staked whatsoever - least of all Julia - seems absolutely lunatic in retrospect.
Agreed. At the time I chalked it up to the possibility that something like that might have been scripted, even filmed, but it didn't make the final edit. (We know there was at least one scene shot for that episode that ended up on the cutting room floor because, not only was Wayne Tippit's name listed in the credits yet Dr. Fisher was never seen, there's a picture from at least one of Fisher's scenes from that episode in PomPress' DS Resurrected - and from the expressions on the characters' faces, they were certainly getting some sort of awful news.) But, of course, even if is was a case that something was scripted/shot, all that's important is that nothing was ever made of it in the final version of the episode - and that was absurd. :(
Be a sport... which aspects horrified you? ;)
The thing that horrified me - but intrigued me, too - was Verheiden's remark about really wanting to go for it with the vampire horror. Vapirism has always been used best as a metaphor in the DS universe, not as a major focus. Making it a major focus in hoDS was one of that film's many failures, IMO. (And then there's the '91 series. As much as I love the show, one aspect of it that I've always thought ridiculous is all that vampiric/animalistic snarling that Barnabas does in the woods. ::)) The idea of ratcheting up the vampire horor horrifies me IF it was merely being done for its own sake and, I suppose, shock value. But at the same time, it intrigues me if it might also be a case that the very horror of it was to pay off as a way to deepen Barnabas' self-loathing. The heretic in me would be more than willing to accept it on those terms.
Of course, the only way to know which it would be, would be to see how it would develop over the course of a series...
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Vapirism has always been used best as a metaphor in the DS universe, not as a major focus. Making it a major focus in hoDS was one of that film's many failures, IMO.
I'd like to hear more. Sounds like an interesting article or essay, MB. :D
I think I know what you mean since the same words gave me slight pause and made me think for a moment of the difference between the original Dark Shadows' atmosphere of Gothic romance and the direction most "horror" seemed to go off on in the decades since ...
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Vapirism has always been used best as a metaphor in the DS universe, not as a major focus.
Go for vampirism as a major focus, IMHO! >:D Hee hee! ;D
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Check out the news page of my site to see a new photograph from the pilot:
http://www.collinwood.net
:)
I was expecting a still from the actual pilot, Stuart. Not a photo op. :( Great pic though. The "new" Willie is so cute.
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Some of the comic book stores in the New York area end up with copies of unaired pilots/bootleg DVD/videos.
Hopefully, I will be able to find the DS pilot sometime.
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Let the wake begin
And so it continues:
Upfronts 2004: What You Won't Be Seeing Next Season (http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|88374|1|,00.html)
But if anything, at least this article shows that DS is in some good company. It also delves a bit further into what I was saying the other day - that pilots "get scrapped for any number of reasons, and quality isn't always atop the list." And it's also the most interesting article I've come across so far...
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this article shows that DS is in some good company. It also delves a bit further into what I was saying the other day - that pilots "get scrapped for any number of reasons, and quality isn't always atop the list." And it's also the most interesting article I've come across so far...
I agree MB a very interesting article. I am almost now sold on the idea that the quality of the pilot was not a major factor in the WB passing on the pilot. In fact I believe that the WB executives started false rumors about how bad the pilot was just to try to save some face as to why they did a 180 on the pilot. I also think by the WB suddendly not using a focus group to screen its pilots, made it much easier to dispose of DS. Is there a conspiracy here?
In any event does anybody know the actual status of the DS pilot? Does the WB still have an option to air the pilot/series on the WB? Is it possible that the WB is still considering DS as a mid-season replacement even though they have not yet indicated this?
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(for those who may have found the previous post located her pompous or sarcastic, I've edited it. Accept my apologies.)
For info on the WBs next step and the process see reply 733 & 735 for more on that...
As for midseason, at this point, I think its just being suggested to soften the blow while the dust settles. I really don't believe midseason is being considered, but there's always a chance the network could become desperate if they have a large amount of shows that do disastrously. I doubt that will happen and we'll just have to cross our fingers and hope another network goes for it...
I wonder if there are LOST IN SPACE boards as passionate about their fave show?
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Over at barnabasundead we are trying to organize something to get the show picked up by another network.
Why don't you check out the site?
www.barnabasundead.com
Misa
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(for those who may have found the previous post located her pompous or sarcastic, I've edited it. Accept my apologies.)
That's very kind of you, Darren. But FWIW, I never thought it was either, don't see any need for you to repeat yourself, and don't feel you have anything to apologize for.
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Soap Opera Digest arrived in today's mail and it has an article about the "Days of Our Lives" serial killer victims [spoiler]turning out to be alive.[/spoiler]All of the "victims" are interviewed including Alexis Thorpe. Her interview took place before the WB fall lineup was announced and she was asked what it would mean for her future at DAYS if the DS pilot would be picked up. She replied that Days is her priority but it would be "an amazing experience to do both." How cool! I hope there's a network out there that will pick up the pilot and if it would be NBC, I'm sure they could work it out for her to do both, but maybe another network could make it work too!
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Soap Opera Digest arrived in today's mail and it has an article about the "Days of Our Lives" serial killer victims ... All of the "victims" are interviewed including Alexis Thorpe.
Alexis Thorpe Online has posted the article and her entire interview, photos included:
http://alexis-thorpe.com/alexisthorpeonline/id115.html
Even the title of the article is a spoiler, so readers beware.
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I guess it was not too surprising to learn these days that NBC passed on the Transylvania potential pilot and series because it was too expensive. Article said other networks are interested in this vampire show.
www.comingsoon.net/news.php?id=4844
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Kristin of eonline doesn't have too many nice words to say about the DS Pilot these days. In response to a question, what happened to the DS pilot? she responds: { Jordan Levin said they had " other projects they thought more deserving". Translation: You know it's crap when it doesn't beat out Drew Carey's Green Screen.} Way to go Levin.
http://www.eonline.com/Gossip/Kristin/Trans/Archive2004/040524d.html
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Kristin of eonline doesn't have too many nice words to say about the DS Pilot these days. In response to a question, what happened to the DS pilot? she responds: { Jordan Levin said they had " other projects they thought more deserving". Translation: You know it's crap when it doesn't beat out Drew Carey's Green Screen.} Way to go Levin.
I followed the link and read the quote. BTW, who is Jordan Levin?
My feeling is that the pilot may have been crap. Considering how the WB was involved in producing it, I find it hard to believe they would have passed on it if it was really good.
Other networks haven't shown much enthusiasm for previous scripts/proposals, and I'm beginning to conclude that Dan Curtis Productions should just let "Dark Shadows" be. Instead work hard at trying to keep the original series alive (as I keep saying, TV Land would seem to be the perfect new home; DS is about the only show from that era that hasn't been re-run on TV Land).
I was as hopeful and excited about the prospects of a new DS as anyone, but as I said before, I think no DS is better than a crappy new DS.
Of course, maybe the pilot was a masterpiece that was unjustly rejected for some corporate politics reason, but given the track record of previous DS proposals and the crappy quality of so many remakes of classics generally, I personally feel we may be better off with keeping our memory of the original show alive.
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Kristin of eonline doesn't have too many nice words to say about the DS Pilot these days. In response to a question, what happened to the DS pilot? she responds: { Jordan Levin said they had " other projects they thought more deserving". Translation: You know it's crap when it doesn't beat out Drew Carey's Green Screen.} Way to go Levin.
I followed the link and read the quote. BTW, who is Jordan Levin?
President of WB. The network, not WB Television.
I don't take Kristin too seriously these days since she is someone who was blaming DS for Angel's demise. We don't know it's crap. Just speculation.
Gotta see it to believe it.
In a footnote to the entire thing, we forget that John Wells Productions was heavily involved in the project. Probably more so then Curtis. It was Warner Bros. Television and John Wells Productions that got pilot going in the first place. Funny, how this has slipped the radar. I think if it were just Dan Curtis, it would not have made it too pilot.
The footnote is that Fox approved Jonny Zero for its year round line up. It should appear in January 2005. Production company is Warner Bros. Television and John Wells Productions. Click here. (http://www.tvbarn.com/ticker/archives/021027.html)
My uneducated guess is that WB went with cheap to produce stuff. They are the lowest rated of all the networks. Their accepted schedule shows no risk taking at all.
Frankly, after what WB did to Angel and the stupid montage thing after the last episode, I'm just glad that WB didn't get their mits on our show. They would have disrespected it IMHO.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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and more:
"Other big names that struck out with fall 2004-05 pilots: Chris O'Donnell, Ricki Lake and Kirstie Alley as the stars of CBS comedies, and Sandra Bullock and Lisa Kudrow as sitcom producers; a remake of Mr. Ed, a comeback sitcom for Valerie Bertinelli and an animated comedy based on the childhood experiences of Chris Rock at Fox; remakes of Dark Shadows and Lost in Space at the WB; comedies starring Macaulay Culkin, Alyson Hannigan, Rob Reiner, Jeff Goldblum and Henry Winkler, and a reality show following the real-life Hollywood adventures of Austin Powers' Mini-Me, Verne Troyer at NBC; as well as comedies starring Jenny McCarthy, Tori Spelling, Charisma Carpenter and Shannon Elizabeth at UPN."
You can read the whole article here (http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,14188,00.html).
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I don't take Kristin too seriously these days since she is someone who was blaming DS for Angel's demise. We don't know it's crap. Just speculation.
Exactly. Kristin was down on the DS pilot before it was even finished shooting. That remark was merely her sarcastic take on Levin's comment. And if we shared her POV, it would actually be quite funny...
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The creaturecorner website posted an alleged review of the DS pilot, Positive buzz for Shadows. I am glad to see a positive review if it is true. This review was also picked up by the horrorweb website.
www.creature-corner.com
www.horror-web.com/news4/news.php
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The creaturecorner website posted an alleged review of the DS pilot, Positive buzz for Shadows. I am glad to see a positive review if it is true. This review was also picked up by the horrorweb website.
Thanks, jimbo. I can verify that it's a legitimate review by someone who has indeed seen the pilot, and I'm posting it in its entirety with the permission of the author. There's nothing contained here that will spoil the suspense for first-time viewers.
I've seen it and thought it was terrific. Probably the fastest paced 40 mins of television I've seen. The casting is amazingly solid, despite the rushed nature of the casting process. Newman has two rich and memorable scenes as Barny (intro to the family & josette's room) and there are three really scary, chilling scenes. The show also had a wonderful SUSPIRIA inspired look with scenes bathed in primary colors that added to the film-quality visuals. Gould is excellent as David, Marley works as Victoria and I'm truly sad audiences won't get to see more of his sour, venom-dripping Roger. If a flaw can be aimed at it, it would simply be that its a very busy pilot that doesn't have much breathing time for the characters. It's not all action, there are nice dialogue scenes between Liz/Vicki, Vicki/Carolyn and Carolyn/Joe. It doesn't leave you lost or confused, but after seeing it, you really WANT to see the next episode and find out more about these characters and what happens to them. A flashy first episode combined with a quieter character focused second episode and it would have dug its hooks fiercely into an audience.
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I don't take Kristin too seriously these days since she is someone who was blaming DS for Angel's demise. We don't know it's crap. Just speculation.
Exactly. Kristin was down on the DS pilot before it was even finished shooting. That remark was merely her sarcastic take on Levin's comment.
I didn't know that and had no idea who "Kristin" was. Your comment puts her remarks in an entirely different context, since I assumed she was an objective commentator.
Given the fantastic and exciting-to-read review of the pilot that Midnite has posted, I guess I'd have to backtrack on my speculation that the pilot might just have been a dud.
If it was as good as the review indicates, it sounds like a sure-fire thing -- much more exciting than the "safe bets" WB supposedly went with. Yet the WB head's comments sound very dismissive.
The comments in the review about the visual look of the pilot, which had been mentioned in one of the interviews (I think with the writer), are very interesting. I suspected that a "fantastical" look was being created after seeing the interior photograph of the ornate theater that was used for the interior of the Old House. Fantastic rather than realistic. Rather intriguing.
If the pilot is as good as the review by the anonymous source says, perhaps it stands some chance of being picked up by someone else.
Darn, I'd rather not get my hopes up again though.
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Thanks Midnite for confirming this review as legitimate and for posting the entire review! That makes a world of difference to me as there are just so much false information on the internet. It is also great that the writer has given permission to have his/her views shared with all of us. The writer did seem however resigned to the fact that the audience will never get a chance to see the pilot. Hopefully we will get the chance to see it on TV in the near future. It sounds so wonderful!
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That makes a world of difference to me as there are just so much false information on the internet.
I couldn't agree with you more, jimbo.
The writer did seem however resigned to the fact that the audience will never get a chance to see the pilot.
Actually, the reviewer explained that the lack of plot details was intentional so that viewers could be surprised and engaged when they see it.
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The writer did seem however resigned to the fact that the audience will never get a chance to see the pilot.
Actually, the reviewer explained that the lack of plot details was intentional so that viewers could be surprised and engaged when they see it.
Oh, now that sounds promising! Maybe all is not lost after all? If not network TV, then maybe at the Fest?
Bette
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Oh, now that sounds promising! Maybe all is not lost after all? If not network TV, then maybe at the Fest?
According to the information posted on the Festival website, scenes from the pilot will be shown. The main events for this year's Dark Shadows Weekend are now posted along with the weekend rates: www.darkshadowsfestival.com
Look under "Dark Shadows Weekend 2004" and "Membership/Order Form".
ProfStokes
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An expanded version of the pilot episode review was posted on Dark Horizons. It follows a commentary by the site's webmaster.
Go to www.darkhorizons.com and click on "Dark Shadows" What Could've Been
BTW, there's a typo in the last sentence of the review; it should read "would have dug".
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Look under "Dark Shadows Weekend 2004" and "Membership/Order Form".
Thanks for the link, Profstokes. Lots of new info has been added. I'm particularly intrigued by the promise of rare video at the Banquet. Hmmmm, now what could that be? Guess I'll have to go to the Banquet even though I hate the hassle they put you through beforehand. I was thinking of skipping that part this year.
Bette
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According to the information posted on the Festival website, scenes from the pilot will be shown...
At the moment, the pilot presentation is a listed as a "preview" - the actual format for that is still being worked out and there's no guarantee yet that it includes footage from the production itself.
But fingers crossed they can get at least something on the weekend's screenings :)
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At the moment, the pilot presentation is a listed as a "preview" - the actual format for that is still being worked out and there's no guarantee yet that it includes footage from the production itself.
But fingers crossed they can get at least something on the weekend's screenings :)
I think you are right Stuart. Hopefully the word 'preview" will be clarified so that there will not be a let down at the time of the Festival. We have already been disappointed enough. I think the Festival is going to be especially good this year.
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Excerpt from ShadowGram email Update #117--
ShadowGram (SG) announces the following breaking news for Dark Shadows (DS).
---WB DS PILOT UPDATE
As previously reported on this updates list the WB Network did not pick up the DS pilot as anticipated for the coming season. However, Warner Bros Productions (not to be confused with the separate WB network), along with partners Dan Curtis Productions and John Wells Productions, are pursuing all other relevant options. Any further progress will be reported on this updates list and in ShadowGram in print.
The current edition of TV Guide lists DS as # 19 on list of the top 25 Cult TV shows. It also gives the impression that the WB is still on board with the DS pilot, which unfortunately is not the case.
ShadowGram Update #117
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Who actually owns the pilot?
Thanks,
Patti
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Warner Bros. Productions owns it, lock, stock and barrel, Patti.
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Let's hope Warner Bros Productions is making a good faith effort to get DS sold to another network and simply just not going through the motions. It must be in the back of its mind that DS could potentially come back to haunt the WB if it gets big ratings opposite any WB program.
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Let's hope Warner Bros Productions is making a good faith effort to get DS sold to another network and simply just not going through the motions. It must be in the back of its mind that DS could potentially come back to haunt the WB if it gets big ratings opposite any WB program.
Wouldn't that be poetic justice?
Gerard
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Very strange 5/29/04 suggestion by columnist at the filmjerk website that Joss Whedon should lead Dark Shadows into the 21st century. Additionally, I thought this site is known for its cutting edge breaking news exclusives. This reporter should have first come here.
www.filmjerk.com/nuke/article927.html
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After conceiving an entire world for "Buffy" and "Angel" and populating it with wonderful characters, brilliant dialogue and thrilling situations...........
.....why on earth would he want to take on someone else's Vampire invention? Talk about "been there, done that."...... ::)
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It does seem rather odd that Joss Whedon would want to take on someone else's vision instead of his own. Clearly, this author is not familar with DS history or concepts the nature of the show or even understands Whedon very well. Perhaps, they feel that the two worlds are interchangeable and that there are no significant differences between them. [size=-2]*sigh :- [/size][/FONT]
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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Our paper had an article today entitled "Networks dump high-profile pilots" and mentioned in general that lots of reasons cause pilots to be scrapped and that there were 120 of them. They then have a little blurb about several prominent ones. As to DS, it says:
"Dark Shadows (WB, drama): Maybe The WB didn't want to put another vampire show on the air right after canceling "Angel." Or maybe it was too expensive. Whatever the reason, it's a bit of a surprise that this show, produced by "ER" maven John Wells and starring Martin Donovan, Marley Shelton and Blair Brown, didn't make the schedule."
However, since we know that they were presumably behind the show from the start, and they certainly knew they were canceling "Angel," that theory doesn't hold up.
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I just do not understand why members of the media have this desire to say bad things about the DS pilot in a public forum. Case in point, in this Buffy/Slayage Conference, the TV Critic for the NY Daily News allegedly stated that he heard that the pilot was awful and alluded to his willingness to prove this to be the case by going out of his way to obtain a copy of the pilot. I am sick and tired of the bad publicity this pilot has received without it first being screened by these critics. I have sent this writer an email asking for a clarification.Â
www.livejournal.com/users/redsrule1/
article re-posted at whedonesque site
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He's at a "Buffy/Angel" event........he admits he hasn't seen the pilot.......he writes for the Daily News, for pete's sake.....what ELSE was he going to say?
Be pissed at the WB suits who said no to the pilot, if you like, .....but don't waste your time being annoyed by a hack who writes for the 2nd worst rag in New York.....
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Annoyed in the context of it not being fair to all of the individuals and their hard work who generated the pilot. This writer is well known and respected in the TV industry and outside of the Daily News. You ask, "what else is he going to say"? how about the truth or nothing at all?
BTW I do not think you are in a position to tell me how to "waste my time" or how I should feel about a specific topic. So I would appreciate you not making personal judgments on my posts. Thanks.
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Once again, people not a part of the WB are saying that Angel was cancelled because of DS. It just doesn't make any logical sense that you cancel something that is doing reasonably well for something that you don't even have in your hand at the time. I think there is more to the Angel cancellation then we are being told.
I will believe that statement when Jordon Levin says it.
Further, there is no journalistic integrity in criticizing something you haven't even seen. You did the right thing Jimbo by calling him on it.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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However, since we know that they were presumably behind the show from the start, and they certainly knew they were canceling "Angel," that theory doesn't hold up.
True, the first theory doesn't really hold up, but the second might. And why I say that is because the cheif reason cited for the '91 series not finding another network willing to produce it was that the series was too expensive and no one else could afford it. One can say, "Well, the WB knew what they were getting into when they greenlit the pilot," and that is true. But greenlighting a pilot and working out the network budget to encompass every series for an entire season are two very different things. We have to remember that TV networks aren't merely in it to entertain - they're primarily in it to make money. So, it's a no-brainer to assume that the WB felt they would get a better return on their investments with the schedule they've gone with that doesn't include DS. And if financial reasons really do figure into the pilot being passed on, no amount of persuading from DS fans is likely to change their minds. :(
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I do understand how the high cost of producing DS might be a factor with the 2004 pilot finding a home on another network. But I am with Josette on how the networks are well aware how much the production costs are when they considered DS for its schedule. For example, when Fox ordered the DS pilot script I think three years ago, they were well aware how much DS would cost if it made it to series. My recollection of the discussion here was that Fox passed on it because the story was too similar to that of the 1991 pilot. The WB too knew how much it would cost them to produce the pilot and series. In addition the network would have saved a substantial cost because it was produced in-house. In both instances I do not think the budget was the major reason why the networks passed on DS. However, selling the 2004 DS pilot to another network will be a problem for the DS producers because of its high costs. I think a network like Fox can afford the costs and still might be interested in DS.
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A show's actual budget is only half of its financial equation. As I said, it's expense versus return. And it's a bigger picture issue than only one show. The WB obviously felt the schedule they've picked will potentially bring in bigger ratings and thus generate higher revenue for them versus the expense they'll put out to produce it than a schedule that might have included DS. A shocking concept for us to accept - and they might be dead wrong (I suspect most of us think so) - but that's the hand we were dealt...
As for DS being produced in-house, that might not have even been a factor. Both The Mountain and Jack and Bobby are WBTV productions - as are the mid-season pickups Global Frequency and Rocky Point. (The only WB dramatic pilot that was produced by an "outside" studio was LIS, which was done by FOX.)
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The budget is a crucial aspect in all this, and one that seriously mitigates against DS. Obviously the WB could afford to spend that money on the series, but being able to afford something doesn't mean it represents value for money, which is the real argument when creating a network schedule.
DS was never going to be a cheap show - there's a big cast, established high-profile actors attached, expensive locations and production values, along with heavy artistic demands. If you're looking to cut costs on the show, there really aren't too many areas you can easily save cash.
At a time when drama is increasingly expensive to produce, plus increasingly difficult to get audiences behind, DS on paper represents a big financial risk on an "oddball" show that doesn't scream mainstream appeal.
The show was always something that would require a leap of faith from a network to have a chance in today's market. Sad though it is, within that situation, and bearing in mind the current constraints networks face to survive, I can totally understand the WB verdict, even if I disagree with it.
And sadly, the same arguments will apply to any other network that considers the show. Which is why I'm convinced that until the marketplace changes, the show has a near impossible fight from the word go.
No conspiracy, no dark secrets... Never forget that it's called showbusiness.
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I never disputed the fact that DS' high production costs is a factor in whether or a not a network will pick the pilot up. Just speculating here, if WB Television Productions is aware of this financial concern, how will they then market DS to the other networks and overcome this issue in order to sell the DS pilot?
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Just speculating here, if WB Television Productions is aware of this financial concern, how will they then market DS to the other networks and overcome this issue in order to sell the DS pilot?
To quote my favorite renegade space pilot, 'That's the real trick, isn't it?'
;D
These are first classes sales and pitchmen- I'm sure they have ways.
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To quote my favorite renegade space pilot, 'That's the real trick, isn't it?'
;D
These are first classes sales and pitchmen- I'm sure they have ways.
LOL!!! Thanks.
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Last week's chat with CEO of the Horror Channel at the creaturecorner's website, indicates that "We have been evaluating the original DS as a potential staple for our launch lineup". (Oct./2004)
He does not know too much about the new DS and the WB's plans on the pilot.
www.creature-corner.com/columns/chatnickpsaltos.php3
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It's certainly encouraging that the Horror Channel is actively pursuing the idea of picking up the original DS. If so, let's hope cable companies decide to carry it a lot quicker than they did Sci-Fi. Sci-Fi had a fairly low clearance level when it launched in September of '92, it was over two years before my cable provider picked it up - and even at that, it remained unavailable in many parts of the country until well into DS' second run.
As for the DS pilot, even an established cable channel might have a hard time coming up with the finances necessary to produce the show, so, sadly, it's not likely that a new cable channel like the Horror Channel that's just getting on its feet could manage it. :(
Thanks for the link! :)
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Last week's chat with CEO of the Horror Channel at the creaturecorner's website, indicates that "We have been evaluating the original DS as a potential staple for our launch lineup". (Oct./2004)
He does not know too much about the new DS and the WB's plans on the pilot.
www.creature-corner.com/columns/chatnickpsaltos.php3
Thank you for posting that, Jimbo! I found a couple of interesting things mentioned in the chat. First of all, Cereal_Chiller (the Horror Channel guy) mentions he saw the filmmaker of the new DS in an elevator at Warner Brothers awhile back -- would that be Curtis or Wells? Or the director? Secondly, he's talking about acquiring older shows (like the original DS hopefully!) for programming and it sounds like the Horror Channel can't really afford new programming, so might be unable to afford the new DS if it was pitched to them? Is that the way others of you are interpreting this or am I reading too much into it?Â
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I agree with MB and you. I hope that the Horror Channel will be on most cable companies. I not even sure it will be on NY's various cable services. In any event it will be great for the Dark Shadows universe. Not sure how this may impact on the negotiations with Soapnet. Competition is a good thing here. lol
Not sure who he met. Could have been any of the three co-executives or Hogan. I assume the new DS will come up in the Horror Channel's discussions with DCP etc.... But I do not sxpect to see the new DS on that channel and as MB said it is just too expensive.
BTW I love this big print feature.
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the Horror Channel can't really afford new programming, so might be unable to afford the new DS if it was pitched to them? Is that the way others of you are interpreting this or am I reading too much into it?
Yes. Using the Sci-Fi Channel as an example again, I think they were around for four or five years before they produced their first original programming. And at that I *think* the first thing they did was Mystery Science Theater 3000, which didn't exactly have high production values - but then, that was sort of the whole point of that show. :D
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This OT post has been moved to "Text Size In The Input Window & On Certain Buttons" on the Testing board.
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This OT post has been moved to "Text Size In The Input Window & On Certain Buttons" on the Testing board.
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Not sure how this may impact on the negotiations with Soapnet. Competition is a good thing here. lol
I assume the new DS will come up in the Horror Channel's discussions with DCP etc.... But I do not sxpect to see the new DS on that channel and as MB said it is just too expensive.
BTW I love this big print feature.
Is soapnet still in negotiations for the original DS? I thought I'd read awhile back (either here or in Shadowgram) that that they'd decided against it, but maybe I'm wrong. If they still are, then, yes, the competition could be interesting! LOL! Thanks to both you and MB for your input on the financial issue about the Horror Channel and the new DS. I had a feeling it would probably be too expensive for the new channel. Oh well -- hopefully DC/WB is having luck selling it somewhere. Wish we'd hear some news about it! Any news about any luck anywhere, good or bad, would be good to know!
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hopefully DC/WB is having luck selling it somewhere. Wish we'd hear some news about it! Any news about any luck anywhere, good or bad, would be good to know!
Most likely we won't hear anything substantial unless someone picks it up, or until all avenues have been exhausted and there's no hope in sight...
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It's too bad that the financial issue could keep the WB pilot and series from debuting on the Horror Channel. It would be nice if the trend were to be a way of thinking, that a brand new show to launch the channel would be the best thing for it. Of course, on the other hand, I'd hate to know it was on TV and I (and scores of others, I presume) wouldn't be able to see it because of the HC not being picked up by all the cable companies (or mine in particular, lol). Perhaps it's a blessing in disguise at this point. It makes a lot of sense that a company wouldn't spend a lot of money before it even gets off the ground, not knowing whether it will even be successful or not.
Exciting news about the original series though!
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hopefully DC/WB is having luck selling it somewhere. Wish we'd hear some news about it! Any news about any luck anywhere, good or bad, would be good to know!
Most likely we won't hear anything substantial unless someone picks it up, or until all avenues have been exhausted and there's no hope in sight...
I just hope that the WBP has generated some interest from the networks. The silence is deafening. lol
Horror Channel news now at www.horror-web.com/news4/news.php
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who is Jordan Levin?
President of WB. The network, not WB Television.
Apparently Jordan Levin and the WB have parted ways. Variety (http://www.variety.com) is reporting that he was asked to take a reduced role and instead made the decision to leave.
Could his departure impact the fate of our show?
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.......as in, now that he's gone, the new President might reconsider the series? If only.......!!
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That is an excellent question Midnite. I think his departure can only help. Hope it is not too late. Thanks for posting the news.
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This is really weird. A friend of mine rang this morning and ask if I'd heard about TNWBDS. I told him his news was old and outdated. He said he'd read about the show in a new issue of Star magazine (the tabloid) he purchased in the supermarket late last week.
I can only assume they got hold of a really old news release somewhere or other...
G.
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.......as in, now that he's gone, the new President might reconsider the series? If only.......!!
I just emailed the WB and asked them to reconsider it -- yeah, for all the good it'll probably do! LOL! Well, now that Levin's gone we can hope they'll at least think about it.
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I've posted a mini-update and editorial on the restoration site...Personally think the pilot is brilliant and totally underrated by the network.
Someone's got extreme myopia to miss the obvious quality in this pilot. It plays like a 41min feature and looks amazing visually. I love all the nuance and fresh approaches the new cast brings to it and the mind swells with possible intriguing directions the show can take and character layers it could probe...
If this thing does stay dead for TV, I cross my fingers that a studio like Lions Gate or Studio Canal will snatch it up, shoot another hr and turn it into a feature...
It's another case of an artistic film director delivering something amazing (like Mulholland Drive) and it getting quashed by narrow minded TV execs with little vision...
Remember Mulholland Drive got slammed and dropped by the network, never to air, but then was released as a feature and won best director at Cannes and was nominated for Academy Awards... ::)
If only they'd shot the pilot as a 90min feature length pilot, a feature sale would be a given...
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Do you think they gave it any more than a very cursory glance? My understanding was that by the time the pilot had been delivered, the WB suits had already decided upon a programmatic shift away from drama and into "reality" series programming.
I think "extreme myopia" is a highly charitable description of the typical H'wood studio exec's mental abilities. C'mon, where's my "Grosse Point" DVD release???
As for the future of the pilot, perhaps MPI can release it one day with a "Making of" featurette on a single disc. I can see it selling big in the market they've built for the episode releases.
G.
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As for the future of the pilot, perhaps MPI can release it one day with a "Making of" featurette on a single disc. I can see it selling big in the market they've built for the episode releases.
Hee hee, what about including it in the dvd boxset of the 1990 series? ;D
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I've posted a mini-update and editorial on the restoration site.
www.nightofdarkshadows.com
;)
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They gave Willie a living, breathing girlfriend?!
Damn....now I really am disappointed. :(
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(PILOT SPOILER)
[spoiler]Don't be..She's dead by act 3 anyway.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]Really? Lasted that long, did she?
;)[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]Don't be..She's dead by act 3 anyway.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Isn't it more that she's "dead"?[/spoiler]
(http://www.dsboards.com/dsb05/Smileys/wink2.gif)
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I've posted a mini-update and editorial on the restoration site...Personally think the pilot is brilliant and totally underrated by the network.
Someone's got extreme myopia to miss the obvious quality in this pilot. It plays like a 41min feature and looks amazing visually. I love all the nuance and fresh approaches the new cast brings to it and the mind swells with possible intriguing directions the show can take and character layers it could probe...
If this thing does stay dead for TV, I cross my fingers that a studio like Lions Gate or Studio Canal will snatch it up, shoot another hr and turn it into a feature...
It's another case of an artistic film director delivering something amazing (like Mulholland Drive) and it getting quashed by narrow minded TV execs with little vision...
Remember Mulholland Drive got slammed and dropped by the network, never to air, but then was released as a feature and won best director at Cannes and was nominated for Academy Awards... ::)
If only they'd shot the pilot as a 90min feature length pilot, a feature sale would be a given...
Thanks for posting this, Darren! Holy cats, I hope SOMEBODY picks it up -- it sounds so cool!!!!!
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Just came across an interesting Jenna Dewan (Sophia in the WB pilot) article dated tomorrow(?) in which she briefly comments on the the pilot situation:
In addition to the soap opera, Dewan ... recently filmed a television pilot, a remake of Dark Shadows, but she doesn't know if or when it will air. "That's kind of a bummer," she said.
'All She Wants to Do Is Dance' (http://thenewscourier.com/features.cfm?SID=394)
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The webmaster at www.horror-web.com/news4/news.php
is urging TNT to pick up the Dark Shadows Pilot in a prelude to discussing the high ratings scored by Salem's Lot.
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Over at BarnabasUndead they are getting a mailing champaign started. You might want to check it out. It couldn't hurt to have people write to the different networks and tell them that they want to see the New Dark Shadows. The more people who write the more likely the show will get picked up.
Check it out. at
http://www.barnabasundead.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125
Under the topic.
Do you want to see Dark Shadows 2004 get picked up?
Misa
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Over at BarnabasUndead they are getting a mailing champaign started. You might want to check it out.
Thanks, Misa!
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Because of the 10 Anniversary year slideshow for the pilot, I've transferred this topic to this board so that anyone who may want to can easily revisit the development of the pilot as it went through its various stages back in '04.
Enjoy! [snow_smiley]
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I think we should petition Ryan Murphy to do DS the way he does American Horror Story!
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this came up on another board and I forgot what happened exactly but didn't Dan Curtis end up abandoning this project at some point even before the pilot was finished being filmed?
what was it? I seem to recall the whole enterprise ending on something of a sour note.
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this came up on another board and I forgot what happened exactly but didn't Dan Curtis end up abandoning this project at some point even before the pilot was finished being filmed?
what was it? I seem to recall the whole enterprise ending on something of a sour note.
DC was never one to like not to be completely in control, but compromise he had to do when it came to certain things the WB wanted. And if I recall correctly, the last straw for him came after Rob Bowman left as director and the WB categorically refused to allow DC to direct.
But as I said back at the time, one of the best possible things for the pilot was that DC didn't have the last word on everything. We'd already been there done that, and as much as I enjoy much of the '91 DS, I was no fan of the virtual shot-for-shot remake of hoDS and parts of DC's Dracula during the early eps. The last thing we needed was another pilot like that. And thankfully the pilot that was produced for the WB introduced many new elements with new twists and turns that even long-time DS fans could be surprised by.
All that being said, though, at his Paley Center Honors, when asked what he thought of the pilot, DC's exact words were that it "looks pretty good".
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I think that if we get another series on tv (which by the way HBO or SHO....), it should just start with the Quentin story line...and follow canon. I'd love to see a well produced version of the 1897 storyline. (my favorite of the whole series, followed by the 1840 storyline.)
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It would have been in the vein of WB prime-time teen soaps. Was DC still alive? I still haven't seen that pilot.
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Actually, there weren't any teen characters in pilot. The pilot featured the classic characters: Barnabas, Vicki, Liz, Roger, Carolyn, David, Joe, Julia, Willie, Angelique and Sheriff Patterson - and Maggie, Sam, and Sarah were to be introduced in later eps. Prof. Stokes was referred to and probably would have also been introduced in the flesh at some point.
And, yes, DC was still alive - but the main producer behind the show would have been David Wells, who did The West Wing.
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I was absolutely devoted to The West Wing. I'll bet this show would have been really good with David Wells producing.
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Me too... when Aaron Sorkin left WW, though, D Wells had some trouble keeping the show intact. It seemed to become more straightforward and matter-of-fact, without the spark and humor, so it's possible that would have hasppened with 2004 DS. Some say that was the trouble with 1991 DS...
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Yes, 1991 took itself too seriously. Although (OT, I know!) I thought Roy Thinnes was great!
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Liked him in The Invaders... I'd like to see him as Trask.
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it's possible that would have hasppened with 2004 DS.
Though it's also possible that it wouldn't have. Sadly, we'll never know. [santa_sad] But based on the pilot's script, which hit all the right notes, and the plans they had if the pilot had gone to series, I remain quite intrigued for what might have been. And a good thing would have been that the pilot's writer, Mark Verheiden, was also an exec producer with Wells and was planned to be a writer for the series so, like Aaron Sorkin with The West Wing, he would have been there to keep his vision on track. But alas...
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I think that if we get another series on tv (which by the way HBO or SHO....), it should just start with the Quentin story line...and follow canon. I'd love to see a well produced version of the 1897 storyline. (my favorite of the whole series, followed by the 1840 storyline.)
This is what I've meant on other threads of this board.
Quentin (a young-hunky dude), Amy/Nora, The Evanes, real (or real as could be) Laura, Paul Stoddard, and ABSOLUTELY KEEP MICHELLE PFIEFFER!!!
(Actually, if the truth be known, my older daughters hear me alllllllll the time shouting, 'Misha,,,,Misha'...he's sort of replaced Quentin.)
Patti
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The WB 20th anniversary: Ranking all 32 of the network's dramas from worst to best (http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/the_wb_turns_20_the_32_dramas_ranked_from_worst_to_best-2015-01)
And to think The WB could have had DS - but nnnnoooooooo, they had to pick The Mountain (which, frankly, I would have ranked much lower than a few of the shows below it).
(I do, however, agree with the choice for #1.)
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This is so depressing! I have missed you guys!!!!
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Taeylor!!!! Missed you too! [hug]
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Star Trek: Discovery Adds Doug Jones as Alien, ... (http://tvline.com/2016/11/29/star-trek-discovery-cast-doug-jones-anthony-rapp-gay-character-cbs-all-access/)
Doug Jones portrayed two different characters in the pilot:
The Train Demon:
here are two production photos from the pilot:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/TrainDreamDemon.jpg)
Creature actor Doug Jones as the Train Dream Demon.
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Vicki_Hogan_Demon.jpg)
Vicki, director PJ Hogan, and the Demon.
And the desiccated Barnabas:
I have some production stills to share to help to better illustrate what's just happened. First off, a lovely photo of creature actor Doug Jones as Barnabas in full desiccated makeup (complete with red eyes and pointy nails):
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Revived.jpg)
...
And for a bit of fun, here's a shot of Doug Jones getting the finishing touches of his body makeup applied:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Doug_makeup.jpg)
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The complete pilot is on Youtube now, but I don't expect it to be up for long:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0gLTmrsltU
It was interesting to see it again. It was a little better than I had remembered from my previous single viewing. Alec Newman is a standout as Barnabas.
Best, G.
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Thanks, G. This was on my DS bucket list.
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Finally, our prayers are answered! [crowdhappy] Not to mention I can watch it again and correct mistakes in "The Return of Yet Another New Slideshow (Sort of)" pilot script topic (because I'm sure there are some) and/or answer some of the questions I had there but didn't remember the answers to...
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One thing I've already noticed that I'd completely forgotten is that there are CGI parts added to Greystone to make it look larger as Collinwood. Quite possibly it was done similarly to the way the Depp/DS film added the second and third floors to the set they built for exteriors, only for the '04 pilot the CGI additions were added to shots of the existing Greystone:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Clw1.jpg)
It's much more effective than the model they used for the '91 series. But then the CGI effects available in '04 weren't available back then...
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Thank you!
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I just hope that the person who uploaded it (who I believe many of us know or are at least aware of in fandom) had permission to upload it. Or if he didn't, he doesn't get the book thrown at him by WB. We know how WB can react when something they own is uploaded online illegally...
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Curiouser and curiouser.
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Thanks, that was interesting to see.
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I just watched the full version of the pilot that's up on YouTube and it's not the version that's been shown at the Fests. Well, at least not the version that was shown in LA in '05. The version then had placement cards in a few spots to indicate where unfinished CGI was to be added. Also, the end went on longer. But then cutting back the screaming between Vicki and Angelique is a good thing and is something that was intended but never actually done. Well, at least not done until some point after the '05 screening and this month's uploading to YouTube. Apparently someone edited the original version. Though apart from the missing placement cards and shorter end, I don't believe anything else is different.
I must say, though, that I enjoyed watching it just as much as I did back in '05.
And there are most definitely things that we completely forgot about when we did the "The Return of Yet Another New Slideshow (Sort of)" pilot script topic back in '14. We had 99.9% of the dialogue changes from the script correct, but there are several places where actions and settings are different from the ways they're presented in the script...
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this release has certainly kicked up a fuss on all the FB DS pages. suffice to say most of the comments are on how much more or less it "sucks" than the Burton version.
at least words like "travesty" and "abomination' are not being applied to it as liberally. [easter_rolleyes]
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I have suspected since this summer that there were plans to release the pilot on video. Years ago I was watching some video at a Fest and they were all prefaced by the title "Bloopers and Treasure." Lo and behold, these were available later on the DS-B&T DVD. I can't find my program, but "The House" and several other videos all had another title. The pilot was also shown along with other items under that title. It was interesting that there were no instructions to turn of cameras or admonitions about filming. I saw a video of the pilot floating around private fans, although I don't think it was posted anywhere. It was a camera shot of the screen.
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I really have only vague memories of that 2005 screening. I do remember that I found the ending ridiculous. So it was a surprise when I watched it again and actually thought the ending now worked. It certainly works a hell of a lot better this way than what I recall from the unfinished edit that was screened over a decade ago.
I would guess that there was going to be a different theme for Josette's music box. It's amazing just how much they crammed into this. There were originally going to be more scenes for Angelique. I've wondered if those were actually filmed.
The most significant difference between this and the Burton-Depp film, for this viewer, is that Alec Newman is outstanding as Barnabas. I thought Depp was a disaster in the role. Obviously, we are all at liberty to agree to disagree.
G.
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this release has certainly kicked up a fuss on all the FB DS pages. suffice to say most of the comments are on how much more or less it "sucks" than the Burton version.
The '04 pilot definitely has its share of detractors. The fact will always be that there's no possibility to ever please everybody. If that were the case there would never be an unfavorable review about anything.
Is the '04 pilot 100% perfect? No. But then neither is the original series. So...
As I always try to say, the best thing to try to do is to try look at any new version of DS on its own terms and try not to compare it to what's come before. Most importantly, is it true to the characters, regardless of how some other actors may have played them compared to how the new actors may be playing them? And while DS isn't Shakespeare, the analogy to DS regarding how different actors interpret Shakespeare is a valid one. But speaking of what's come before, as I've also said, one of the main reasons I enjoy the pilot as much as I do is that it's the freshest take on DS up to the point that it was made. It doesn't slavishly follow the hoDS mold, which is what DC had actually wanted but he was overruled by John Wells, DC's fellow exec producer, and Mark Verheiden, another exec producer and the writer of the pilot. And thanks heavens for it. And Verheiden had fresh takes for a series had the pilot been picked up, but sadly they never got to play out. And similar to NBC and the cancellation of the '91 series, it's too bad that TPTB at the WB came to realize after it was too late that they'd made a mistake in passing on the pilot...
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Just finished watching it. Wow! It was so much better than I had expected it would be, based on almost everything I've read about it. It's certainly not my favorite incarnation of DS, and I have quibbles with a few scenes here and there--which I also have about every other version. There was a bit too much of the is-it-a-dream-or-isn't-it stuff for my taste, and I didn't care for the Suspiria-like lighting schemes. (And the delivery of the last line was too joke-y...) But the cast was overall excellent. The only person I think was miscast was Julia Hoffman, but that's because I'm assuming the classic unrequited love plotline was going to come into play during the series. The pathos in such a story works much better if Julia is middle-aged. (But then again, it worked so well in the original DS because Hall was only two years older than Frid; even though Barnabas was supposed to be quite a bit younger than Frid was himself...)
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I'm sure that it will shortly be pulled, as the PTB call out the lawyers (even though, as has been stated here, it's not the "full" version show at past festivals). Again, may I ask why? Why keep it from general audiences? For what purpose? It's not like it's going to make any money elsewhere. It's almost 20 years old (well, give a few). Putting it on DVD/Blu-Ray or whatever won't create a massive selling point of millions of customers. I certainly won't pay $59.99 for a copy as much as I want to see it. I don't want to see it that bad. I've got lights to keep on. What is it with these bigwigs? Let it go for free on youtube and elsewhere. It expands the market for the franchise. Those who were in it or involved in it have moved on. Probably most don't even remember their participation. Those who are financially involved in DS somehow forget that only a growing market will keep the franchise alive and bring in the ca-ching. And letting fans or whomever put stuff out there without any of the pennies going to the owners (especially you-know-who) is free advert. The PTB (and especially you-know-who, even if he isn't involved in the '04 attempted reboot) are like bridezillas who expect everyone to give them a gift of hundreds of dollars to pay for the dry chicken or fishy salmon and the centerpieces with goldfish swimming about in water-filled jars with flowers sticking out. Sorry, we ain't impressed. No blender, toaster-oven, place-setting, statue-with-a-clock in its stomach, or check for you. You spent the money.
Sorry for the rant, but you know me.
Gerard
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you-know-who, even if he isn't involved in the '04 attempted reboot
You-know-who worked as an associate producer on the pilot...
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Wow! I never expected to actually see this, it is very interesting. The atmosphere is very effective; the psychedelic lighting is highly stylized and certainly feels like a reference to the original series dream sequences. I don't see this as so unfinished/unusable as people claimed at the time, a little bit of cleanup and it could have aired.
That dream that David had about his mother was thrilling--though sadly it was ultimately about Angelique and not Laura. Despite the script containing references to a relationship between Roger and Willie's sister, Angeliques dialogue and Roger's visceral reaction made me think they were setting up a 'Cassandra' plot. Alec Newman's cheekbones rival Grayson Hall's, and I thought it was an interesting touch that when in the rabid vampire state, his smooth cheeks were covered in thick scruff. The transformation of Willie is great, it seems that this Barnabas kills his victims or turns them into vampires, nothing in-between. But if the series continued, I hope there would be more in store for Carolyn then a redo of 1991 Daphne/HODS Carolyn, though I certainly wasn't thrilled by this version of Joe Haskall.
Most of the youtube comments are characteristically negative, but I liked this.
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I don't see this as so unfinished/unusable as people claimed at the time, a little bit of cleanup and it could have aired.
It was cleaned up. In the original version, there were sequences showing the mansion that had cards announcing the insertion of SFX sequences. I'm not sure, but I think the editing was more rough as well. I don't recall for sure.
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So, if I went to YouTube, and wanted to watch the '04 rendering....what would I type in?
also:
DS-B&T DVD
....what does this mean?
Thanks
Patti
[edited]
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I posted earlier about my theory that the 04 pilot would be released soon. At the Festival this summer there were a bunch of video items that were subtitled "Dark Shadows Lost and Found." They did something similar with the programming from a previous release. The content on Dark Shadows-Bloopers and Treasures was previewed at a Fest with that title preceding each program. The '04 pilot was marked as "Dark Shadows Lost and Found" surprise. I also think it's even more likely because work was done to improve the pilot. Why would they add CGI to an unfinished work that was never intended to see the light of day? I heard that the Lost and Found released date had been pushed back. I hope it comes out soon, and I also hope that "The House" is on it. It also had thae "Lost and Found" labeling on it.
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I thought it was an interesting touch that when in the rabid vampire state, his smooth cheeks were covered in thick scruff.
I like your explanation that it's Barn's vampire state that presents the scruff rather than what the truth of the matter is, which is the scene in which Barnabas nearly attacks Vicki is the first scene Alec Newman shot and they were thinking of having him sport to scruff all the time. However, when the dailies came back they decided against that look and had Barn clean shaven in everything else they shot.
They planned to reshoot the near attack scene without the scruff, but they ran out of time...
The transformation of Willie is great
I think that, too. Some have said they don't like how Willie is a bit silly in the beginning. But that's so that we see the change in him once he's with Barn.
if the series continued, I hope there would be more in store for Carolyn then a redo of 1991 Daphne/HODS Carolyn
I don't know what the plan for Carolyn was to be, but the character who would take on the 1991 Daphne/HODS Carolyn aspect was to be Willie's girlfriend Kelly. According to Mark Verheiden, the writer of the pilot script and the intended head writer for the series, Kelly would return as a vampire - but unlike with Daphne/Carolyn, she wasn't going to be quickly dispatched with because she was slated to cause all sorts of trouble for Barn and Willie. But alas...
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DS-B&T DVD
....what does this mean?
Oh that was Bloopers and Treasures DVD
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I still remember you-know-who commenting at the 2005 Festival before the screening, a propos of the pilot, "It shoulda been a slam dunk." I do not think you-know-who was at liberty to discuss the full circumstances of why WB rejected the series.
It was an odd turn of phrase to hear at a DS fan event and it has stuck with me over the years.
Wasn't there talk last year of another DS disc release which was going to have some new material on it including a new documentary? Of course, the only thing I am really interested in is Grayson's Playtex commercial... yes, as a card carrying member of HALLOHOLICS ANON, I would buy it for that...
G.
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Wasn't there talk last year of another DS disc release which was going to have some new material on it including a new documentary?
Yes, I heard it was delayed.
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Curiouser and curiouser.
Well, you know what's really curious? I was definitely wrong when I posted the other day:Apparently someone edited the original version. Though apart from the missing placement cards and shorter end, I don't believe anything else is different.
While I was doing captures today for the pilot background, it stuck me today as I watched the part of Vicki and Willie at the train depot and Vicki in Willie's truck that something seemed to be missing, so I just went and checked my sources for the pilot script vs. the actual pilot. I discovered that there are three lines of dialogue missing: after Willie says that Vicki is wet, he apologizes to her for being late and says it's because the trains usually run late, then he makes a comment about all her luggage, and then once they're riding in the truck, Willie warns Vicki to hold on because things are going to get bumpy on the road, and it isn't until a few seconds after that that Vicki spots the Old House and asks if they've passed the house. But what is even curiouser: what's been removed has been replaced with material that wasn't in the pilot when I saw it in '05, namely Willie singing along with the radio and keeping beat on the steering wheel!! And that's only what I've checked so far - who knows what other small things may be different?!
So, who knows what the hell is going on with the YouTube upload!! But now it's obvious that someone has not only removed bits from the pilot, but they've also added at least one bit of new material. And that has to mean that somehow had access to footage that was originally left on the cutting room floor...
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Wow!!! This gets weirder and weirder by the moment. [easter_shocked] Could this simply be an alternate cut or has someone actually gone back and reedited a 13 year old project?
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Who knows?! I suspect it's anyone's guess at this point!! And you know what else I just discovered? In the version I saw at the Fest, after Willie and Kelly make plans to go to the mausoleum, Vicki meets Carolyn - but in the version on YouTube, instead of meeting Carolyn, Vicki gets pranked by David. So, scenes have even been rearranged...
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When I started watching the pilot the other day, the thought crossed my mind that this was something that had been prepared for the new DVD which another fan says has now been delayed.
If it was something that sanctioned work was done on, that would explain the differences, which, as you say, can only be accounted for if the person had access to materials never before seen by the public.
Looking forward to any other thoughts you have about this or differences revealed from your notes.
G.
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The version I saw at the '06 Festival ran 40 min 25 sec or so. The YouTube version is 39 min 29 sec.
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I was wondering if the time differential might be accounted for by closing credits. Thanks for posting that, Doctor and K9 (I have been watching some Tom Baker Who stories again so your handle makes me smile).
G.
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It's a very bad audio recording but it doesn't sound like there was theme music at the end. This weekend, if I can, I'm going to listen to them side by side and see how they differ.
Yeah, I'm a big Doctor Who fan, although I'm a DS fan first, Gothick.
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Looking forward to any other thoughts you have about this or differences revealed from your notes.
I haven't compared beyond what I did earlier, and I won't have a chance to do any more comparing tonight. But one thing I do have to say is that it's odd that David pranking Vicki comes in the YouTube version before Carolyn warns Vicki about David. I suspect most of us would agree that the original timeline of warning followed by pranking would seem to make more sense. And, in fact that's also the intended timeline in the script. But then, whoever put together the YouTube version didn't consult us. [ghost_nowink]
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I think it's odd that David pranking Vicki comes in the YouTube version before Carolyn warns Vicki about David. I suspect most of us would agree that the original timeline of warning followed by pranking would seem to make more sense. And, in fact that's also the intended timeline in the script.
When I watched what was on YT I thought HUH? I did not remember how it went on the audio but it seemed odd to me that Vicky awoke from a dream and met Carolyn, who was going out. This is Collinsport not NYC. She did meet Joe instead of going to the Blue Whale, but why so late? Now it makes more sense.
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I also meant to mention that I checked and Willie listening to the truck's radio is in the script even though it wasn't in the Fest's version of the pilot that I saw...
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I also meant to mention that I checked and Willie listening to the truck's radio is in the script even though it wasn't in the Fest's version of the pilot that I saw...
Is your source from the '05 Fest? My audio is definately from '06, but I'm assuming it was the same version showed in '05.
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Today I realized there's another "new" scene. When I said yesterday that in the version of the pilot that I saw at the Fest, after Willie and Kelly make plans to go to the mausoleum Vicki meets Carolyn, I meant that literally because in between there is no scene of Vicki awake in her bed looking through David's evaluation because she can't sleep. But obviously there is such a scene in the YouTube version before Vicki meets Carolyn. Apparently, even though it's scripted otherwise, at some point it was actually intended that David would prank Vicki before she meets Carolyn so a scene was conceived/shot to indicate that after being pranked by David, Vicki tries to potentially learn more about David from the evaluation, but getting frustrated with that, she goes out into the corridor and encounters Carolyn. But because in the script Vicki meets Carolyn before David pranks her, there is no such scene in the script of Vicki in bed with the evaluation. And presumably because in the version I saw at the Fest Vicki also meets Carolyn before David pranks her, they felt there was no longer a reason to include such a scene...
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Is your source from the '05 Fest?
My sources are from all different years.
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I'd be fascinated to see who this John Peter actually is.
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He (or they) is a fairly well known fan. I don't think it would be proper to further identify in a public forum for obvious reasons.
G.
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When I watched what was on YT I thought HUH? I did not remember how it went on the audio but it seemed odd to me that Vicky awoke from a dream and met Carolyn, who was going out. This is Collinsport not NYC. She did meet Joe instead of going to the Blue Whale, but why so late? Now it makes more sense.
I guess every small town has that one, hip place open all hours of the night. In mine, it was Country Kitchens. No bar, but the best burgers or egg-and-bacon breakfasts and the place was packed at 3:00 a.m. The health authorities eventually had to shut it down. Don't ask.
Gerard
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Another cut occurred to me last night while organizing captures for the new background (which will hopefully show up sometime today). And what's been cut is the end of Joe and Carolyn in his boat. After Carolyn says she has to go, she gets up and starts to get dressed. Joe can see she really is upset so he offers to put his fishing trip off, but Carolyn tells him that she'll see him when he gets back. And then Joe has some problem with the way she's leaving and he says an unscripted "You're goin' out like that?" And to that Carolyn replies with something else that's unscripted that no one that I know who's seen the pilot seems to be able to decipher with certainty. It's something like "I know (something or other)" or possibly "I don't know, it might be fun", but who knows? Though whatever it is, she says it playfully, so it's not like she's leaving in anger. But she does leave Joe bemused. And it's too bad that very last bit was cut because with more exposure perhaps someone would have actually figured out what Carolyn says...
Apparently with the YouTube version we've gotten new stuff [easter_cool] but at the expense of losing other stuff. [easter_sad]
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We'll see how long it remains up. At least one person (not on this board, to my knowledge) has reported it to you know who.
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And why do I suspect the person who reported it is the person who has a reputation for reporting such things to you know who? Although, in this case DCP doesn't own the pilot so there's nothing you know who can do directly. Though you know who can certainly pass along the info to WB...
The thing is, though, IF the pilot has been newly edited, meaning the version on YouTube isn't some early edit from back in '04, then someone at WB has to know about it. The newly added footage didn't just show up from out of nowhere - it had to come from the WB...
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There's several fans who like to report stuff to TPTB because they seem to feel that it will gain them entrance in some inner circle. In virtually all instances, it has yielded them absolutely nothing.
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He (or they) is a fairly well known fan. I don't think it would be proper to further identify in a public forum for obvious reasons.
If this person or people are who I think he or they are then I hope at least one of them gets crucified. This person conned me out of a piece of memorabilia that had a great deal of sentimental value. in order to "thank you for all your help with the auctionl" I sent this person some photocopies of scripts I had so he could get them autographed and sell them to help pay for medical bills. The Kinkos bill and the postage came out of my pocket. So after all that he offered to get a piece of memorabilia autographed for me. It was a book signed by Frid and was a gift from a girlfriend who has passed on. Since Angelique also appears in The Foe of Barnabas Collins he offered to have Lara sign it. He never sent it back and stopped answering my emails. I was later told he sold a copy of the novel on EBay signed by Frid and Parker. Coincidence? He also owes a dear friend of mine a great deal of money which he borrowed and is seemingly unwilling to ever pay back. It's been 7 years since she told me about it. So as I said, if Warner Brothers comes back looking to hang him, I'll donate the rope.
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Doctor, I know exactly who you're referring to and I am totally in agreement with you. The culprits have a long history of conning fans out of money and other personal items. Including me. To my knowledge, they have never once returned anything. They just break communication and move onto the next mark. Karma payback is long overdue.
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MB, I just love the new collage of snaps from the pilot!
Matt Czuchry was so sexy and adorable. I've heard he's very friendly and appreciative of gay fans, too, which means a lot.
G.
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I'm glad you like it. [easter_smiley]
And speaking of Matt, when I saw that capture of him smiling, I immediately knew that it had to be a part of the March background.
Now I'm off to create the April background. And BTW, the pilot's slideshow follows the order of the scenes in the script, so in many cases these new backgrounds won't be following the order in which the scenes appear in the version of the pilot on YouTube. For example, in the YouTube version David pranking Vicki has already happened before Vicki meets Carolyn, which is featured in March's background - but David pranking Vicki won't appear until the May background...
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For the disappearance of the pilot on YouTube, here's a way to download and save it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN3Ec_TnmUY
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That's sad to hear. At least they did share the tape of this one episode which so many wanted to see. I have never had any contact with them beyond seeing them in a skit at a Festival years ago.
That's true. I hadn't really thought of it that way. I suppose it's a healthier outlook. I'll try to focus on the positive.
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For the disappearance of the pilot on YouTube, here's a way to download and save it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN3Ec_TnmUY
God, I'm more tired than I thought. That made no sense. It should read, "For those who fear the disappearnce of the pilot on YouTube, here's a way to download and save it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN3Ec_TnmUY "
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No worries - I think everyone knew what you meant. [easter_smiley]
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MB, I had noticed (since I have been following this thread with great interest) that you were following the sequence of the pilot as we saw it in 2005 rather than this new edit. I do wonder whether the new edit has been prepared for an official disc release.
I look forward very much to the April display for the 2004 pilot!
G.
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It looks as if the 2004 slideshow (with dialogue, etc.) is back--has it been running all this time? I'm pretty gobsmacked this a.m. by various things so maybe it has and I just wasn't paying attention.
Also I just had a weird experience, trying to find the thread for the 2004 show but unable to do so--I just looked at one thread that seemed to have 1991 dialogue but the images were from NoDS. I wonder if it's something to do with my own computer?
And we may get snow today, in honor no doubt of tomorrow's occasion of April Fools...
Best! G.
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This is the pilot's topic:
And Even Yet Another New Slideshow
And yes, the slideshow has been running atop this board all this time. But because there are very few actual captures/stills used in it because so little was available back in '14, I can easily see where someone may not realize it...
If the YouTube video isn't taken down, I'd love to go back and add real captures to the pilot's slideshow. But we'll see...
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If the YouTube video isn't taken down
I could be wrong with what I'm about to say, and I realize that it could seem to be only about a day and a half since the video was reported, BUT even given that time frame, to me it seems like the fact that the video is still up could be a good sign that it could remain so. And the reason I say that is because in the past WB has acted swiftly if not instantaneously to have their stuff taken down from YouTube and other places. Presumably you know who received the report of its upload in a timely fashion in whatever manner it was delivered (e-mail, phone call, whatever), so chances are if you know who would have reported it to WB, they would have contacted YouTube by now and the upload would be no more (I've know of instances where their stuff has been removed in less than 12 hours of being uploaded) - but it's still there. And along with all the questions already surrounding the origin of the video, that fact begs several more questions...
But I suppose we will see...
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It might take a Miss Marple or Hercule Poirot to get to the bottom of this.
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It's been taken down.
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Interesting. I wonder what took so long? The longer it stayed up, the more I was sure it would stay up. But I suppose that was a foolish hope...
But at least, even if it wasn't the version many fans had seen at the Fests, more people got to see it than might have otherwise...
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"Copyright claim by MPI Media Group"?! Now that's fascinating and rather unexpected - and it changes everything!! It would certainly seem to lend credence to the possibility that the pilot really will be coming out as part of the new MPI DVD. It would also seem to imply that you know who is the one who edited it...
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Once questionable material is removed from YouTube, does that put an end to it? I wonder if MPI, DCP or Warner Brothers might pursue further action.
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Well, DCP doesn't own the pilot, so I doubt they could pursue any action. And it seems that the copyright has switched from WB to MPI, at least for the version of the pilot that was uploaded to YouTube. So it would appear that IF anyone was going to pursue other action, it would be MPI...
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As I said earlier, curiouser and curiouser.
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as predicted earlier it's been taken down. apparently by MPI.
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Yes - and the main implication of that is quite interesting and potentionally quite exciting...
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there's been a lot of posting on FB that MPI has no "ownership" or any other "rights" to the 2004 property. that's it's owned by WB.
so i'm not sure under what authority they were able to have this removed? it's been my understanding they ONLY maintain rights to the OS. 91, 04 and 12 (and the 70/71 films) are not their properties. [easter_huh]
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I seriously doubt YouTube would have said the video was taken down due to MPI Media Group's copyright claim if it isn't the case that they own the copyright to at least the version of the pilot that was uploaded to YouTube. Once we realized the version on YouTube isn't the same version that's been shown at the Fests, it certainly begged questions that we've brought up in this topic. But as I posted the other day, at least two of those questions have quite possibly been answered, as in 1) where did the YouTube version of the pilot come from, and 2) who edited it?
"Copyright claim by MPI Media Group"?! Now that's fascinating and rather unexpected - and it changes everything!! It would certainly seem to lend credence to the possibility that the pilot really will be coming out as part of the new MPI DVD. It would also seem to imply that you know who is the one who edited it...
I mean, why/how else would MPI own the copyright to the YouTube version unless they have plans for it, and given the business they're in, those plans are quite probably to issue that version on DVD? And it's hardly a secret who puts together a great deal of the content for the MPI DVDs. So, what I said could be a plausible theory...
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I agree, MB. I'm wondering if there is going to be any publicity around the new DVD release or if it will just appear on various online shopping outlets at some point. I seem to recall really minimal advance pub for some of the recent issues.
G.
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the market for a failed pilot has got to be pretty minimal. but i suppose DS has a fanatically devoted fanbase so it's a relatively small but captive audience.
and since it's just been sitting in a vault somewhere collecting dust for the last 13 years i guess taking in any revenue from it is better than none. and we're obviously past the point of there being any expectations for a "sequel" or "franchise" coming out of the Burton/Depp iteration so perhaps that's no longer an issue.
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Well, I meant it would likely in some way be a part of the MPI DVD release that's been announced but seems to have been delayed for some reason (though it's hardly the first one to get delayed). But we haven't really gotten much info on that release other than it's coming, so who knows?
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the market for a failed pilot has got to be pretty minimal. but i suppose DS has a fanatically devoted fanbase so it's a relatively small but captive audience.
At the Festival there were a number of videos that were shown under the umbrella title "Dark Shadows-Lost and Found." This included the pilot and "The House" by Art Wallace. The last time something like this occured there was a DVD released called "Dark Shadows-Bloopers and Treasures." I suspect that there will be a video entitled "Dark Shadows-Lost and Found." I also recall Pierson mentioning a documentary in the works. I don't know if this was intended to be part of the same release. It all seems to point to a new DVD of odds and ends soon.
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Indeed, it is a small market. But MPI has managed to milk that audience for numerous repackaging
Of the same episodes, first by VHS, then DVD, with and without coffin. Sales will probably be respectable on this as well.
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If whomever decides to finally put this on a DVD and try to sell it, an uncompleted, chopped up pilot, how many are going to buy it? Maybe a few thousands. Okay, so that's money. And it'll be bought out quickly and that's the end. Put it out for free on youtube or elsewhere for free, and garnish hundreds-of-thousands, if not more hits and introduce hundreds-of-thousands, if not more to the franchise and expand it.
What if that guy who invented the "snuggy" (that blanket with arm attachments) insisted that anyone who talked about his invention and spread the word either give him money for talking about it or being threatened into prison did that? Where would he be? Not a multi-millionaire in his mid-twenties who just sits back and doesn't have to work another day in his life.
The whole DS franchise-holders, from DCP, to MPI, to you-know-wh...oh, let's just say it, JIM Pierson, needs to wake up. The DS franchise is dying. DCP, MPI and you-know-who-Jim Pierson better get off their narcissistic thrones and realize they're slitting their own throats. You want money? Fine. No one is denying you trying to get that. It won't happen while you lock up anything DS and won't let anyone watch it unless you get money right now. Ain't gonna happen. "Marketers" like Jim Pierson don't know diddly about marketing. Time for DS to "clear the swamp."
Gerard
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If whomever decides to finally put this on a DVD and try to sell it, an uncompleted, chopped up pilot, how many are going to buy it? Maybe a few thousands. Okay, so that's money. And it'll be bought out quickly and that's the end. Put it out for free on youtube or elsewhere for free, and garnish hundreds-of-thousands, if not more hits and introduce hundreds-of-thousands, if not more to the franchise and expand it.
The thing is, though, that the version on YouTube was no longer uncompleted - it's much more completed than what fans have seen at the Fests and what the WB saw in '04 because someone (yes, in all probability Pierson) has made a point to add some stuff in and take some stuff out. And chances are if MPI is planning to sell that version, it will be packaged with other DS material and not sold on its own. Though you make a good point that while it's basically diehard DS fans such as ourselves who are buying the latest DVD releases, and thus not exactly expanding the fanbase, the edited version of the pilot might have gotten more attention had it been left up on YouTube - especially if the fans of, say, Jessica Chastain and/or Matt Czuchry got wind it had been uploaded. But sadly, quite obviously that's not the way things are going to play...
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Aaargh, MB! Some stuff was added on the youtube and some stuff taken out from what was shown of the version at festivals? What's going on? And, possibly, Jim Pierson was somehow involved? When is this going to end? How many of us does he think are still around? How long does he and other in the control tower going to think this is going to keep their lights on? Let's face it. Jim Pierson face it. This isn't Star Trek. It's not going to make more stuff to make more money unless the franchise expands into more people. No one who's ever heard of DS is going to pay money to hear of it. Mr. Pierson, you need someone to shake you into reality. Stop kissing other people's patoots. Kick their patoots. I wish he'd see this and e-mail me.
Gerard
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i really don't know how marketable the pilot is on it's own. didn't someone suggest it might be included in a larger package of DS "oddities" like The House and a few other odds and ends? to me that seems more plausible given how the company has marketed things in the past.
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i really don't know how marketable the pilot is on it's own. didn't someone suggest it might be included in a larger package of DS "oddities" like The House and a few other odds and ends? to me that seems more plausible given how the company has marketed things in the past.
Yes, it was never announced at the Festival but the program lists several video offerings under the umbrella title "Dark Shadows-Lost and Found." The same thing happened with "Dark Shadows-Bloopers and Treasures." I was madly trying to audio tape some of the stuff and then found out they were coming out soon on DVD under the title listed in the program. I know that Pierson said there would be a video release soon at the Festival last summer. I think he mentioned a documentary. It might be some kind of overview of DS along with some "Lost and Found" items, or maybe it's another release. I might be recalling the documentary thing wrong, because no one else seems to remember it.
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ShadowGram has mentioned the documentary a few times but never with any details. Supposedly a "teaser trailer" was going to be shown at the Halloween In Hollywood event last October, but it was never shown due to what they called a "delivery error". And back in November SG said they would "update definite information on this exciting full-length feature project very soon" - but five months later we still don't know any more about it other than a rumor that apparently the release has been delayed for some reason.
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A few people mentioned seeing a video crew around the Tarrytown Double Tree last summer. Maybe I was preoccupied but I never saw anything like that. Anybody here see anything? Or see anyone being interviewed, fans or actors? [easter_huh]
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Maybe the new disc has been put on hold for a Halloween release? Let's hope we hear something eventually.
I appreciate what folks here have shared about what was said, or at least scheduled, regarding the new release last year.
G.
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A few people mentioned seeing a video crew around the Tarrytown Double Tree last summer. Maybe I was preoccupied but I never saw anything like that. Anybody here see anything? Or see anyone being interviewed, fans or actors? [easter_huh]
Yes it was shown at the Festival this past summer. It was listed as a surprise or something like that and was prefaced as "Dark Shadows-Lost and Found."
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A few people mentioned seeing a video crew around the Tarrytown Double Tree last summer. Maybe I was preoccupied but I never saw anything like that. Anybody here see anything? Or see anyone being interviewed, fans or actors? [easter_huh]
Yes. And the same crew trailed KLS to W. 53rd.
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I have to say I love this capture from the pilot:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/DS04_shocked.jpg)
But then, if you'd just found out that someone you know had been attacked by a human with a "blood obsession", you might have a similar expression to one of the ones on these three men's faces on your face!! [nodassent]
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Another cut in the YouTube version of the pilot occurred to me today when I saw today's entry in the pilot's slideshow. In the version I saw of the pilot, on the subject of restoring the Old House, Barnabas says "Our family goes back hundreds of years... for much of that time, the old house was their home. May I have your permission", which was yesterday's installment in the slideshow - and Roger replies with "As long as I'm not involved. Welcome...to Collinsport", today's installment in the slideshow. However, in the YouTube version, the scene ends with Barnabas asking for permission - Roger never responds. Who knows why Roger's answer and welcome to Collinsport was cut? But then, who knows why a lot of things that were done in the YouTube version were done...
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ShadowGram has mentioned the documentary a few times but never with any details. ... back in November SG said they would "update definite information on this exciting full-length feature project very soon" - but five months later we still don't know any more about it other than a rumor that apparently the release has been delayed for some reason.
Maybe the new disc has been put on hold for a Halloween release? Let's hope we hear something eventually.
Here we are four months later and still no update. But if any sort of new DVD (potentially including the YouTube version of the pilot) is to come out for Halloween '17, one would presume we'll be hearing something within the next two months or so...
Although, that being said, the soundtrack CD for the '91 DS came out without any advance warning. It just showed up for sale out of nowhere...
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MB, you know I am just hanging on here for dear life, praying that by some act of divine intervention, the disc WILL be released before the end of the year and Grayson's Playtex commercial WILL be included... the Legend continues...
G.
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Fab shots in the new August collage. For some reason, it just now showed up for me.
G.
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Speaking of the 91 series soundtrack, I just got around to getting it on Amazon and listening to it now... it's terrific. Makes me miss the show and what it could have been had it continued even more.
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Quite by accident, while confirming info on IMDb for a previous post, I came across this link:
https://archive.org/details/youtube-Kc4QPTHNC2I
And that's all I'm going to say on the subject. [easter_lipsrsealed]
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And speaking of IMDb, until today I'd never bothered to read the summary of the pilot there. Interestingly enough, it describes certain scenes completely out of sequence. And while normally I wouldn't think much of that, given that the version of the pilot that was once on YouTube rearranged/added/dropped/trimmed/extended scenes differently from the version of the pilot that was screened at at least its early Fest showings, it makes one wonder if there's yet another edit of the pilot out there somewhere? [easter_huh]
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I guess it's possible that there might have been several "work prints" in different stages of completion. And it's good to know that it just won't stay dead.
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Today's installment in the '04 pilot's slideshow (atop this board) concludes one of the more humorous sequences in the pilot. And because it's one of my favorites I thought I'd make a post gathering it all together using a combination of the script and how things actually play out:
Previous to what we're going to get into, Roger comments how impressed he is with Vicki, and then after the script reads -
Behind them, Willie enters, setting Victoria's bags in the Great Hall. Seeing Willie, Roger's face tightens.
- Roger is supposed to say -
Page 08 - Roger (CONT'D): 'I suppose we owe you an apology. Loomis should have delivered you an hour ago.'
- which is February 7th installment of the slideshow. However, in the pilot before Roger delivers that quote about Willie, Willie interrupts Roger by entering carrying Vicki's bags and breaking through the gathering of Roger, Vicki and Liz by delivering an unscripted -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Arrive_1.jpg)
'Excuse me.'
- and after that is when Roger actually says -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Arrive_2.jpg)
Page 08 - Roger (CONT'D): 'I suppose we owe
you an apology. Loomis should have delivered
you an hour ago.'
- to which Willie replies in the script with -
Page 08 - Willie: 'She's here, isn't she?'
- which is the February 8th installment in the slideshow, though what Willie says in the pilot is ever so slightly different -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Arrive_3.jpg)
Willie: 'Yeah. She's here, isn't she?'
- (obviously there's no love lost between Willie and Roger) and after the script explains -
"Before Roger can scold him, Victoria interjects."
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Arrive_4.jpg)
Page 08 - Victoria: 'It's my fault. I asked Will to
play tour-guide and show me around Collinsport.'
- which also happens to be February 9th's installment in the slideshow - and to that Liz replies with a pleasant and unscripted -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Arrive_5.jpg)
'Oh.'
- and the script explains -
"Roger senses he's being played, but doesn't push it."
- before Roger delivers February 10th's quote -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Arrive_6.jpg)
Page 08 - Roger: 'Really. Both stoplights?'
- and continuing to attempt to cover for Willie, Vicki replies with the quote for February 11th -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Arrive_7.jpg)
Page 08 - Victoria: 'I was curious.'
- and after that Roger is scripted to continue with his sarcasm by remarking 'And I'm sure all your late night "sightseeing" has left you exhausted' - but either that was cut before shooting or in the editing of the scene. Too bad because it's quintessential Roger. [snow_wink] And it also sets up Roger's next quote in the slideshow. But more on that after pointing out that the script then explains -
"A young maid, SOPHIA (20), enters. Seeing Sophia, Roger flickers a smile, and she smiles back -- a moment that Willie notices with some discomfort."
- however, things don't exactly play that way in the pilot, but we'll deal with that shortly. First we'll move on to how after that Roger is scripted to deliver today's quote -
Page 09 - Roger (CONT'D): 'Sophia, take Miss Winters to her room. And make sure she doesn't get lost this time.'
- but while it's different in the pilot, it's certainly no less sarcastic because Roger actually says -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/Arrive_8.jpg)
Roger: 'Miss Loomis, show Miss Winters to her
room. With luck you won't lose your way like
your brother.'
- but getting back to Sophia and Willie's reactions, as seen in the capture, Sophia does indeed smile and Willie does indeed display discomfort - but in the pilot it plays as if they're reacting to Roger's insult against Willie rather than a smile Roger may have given to Sophia - though whether that change in impression is because of creative editing or whether Roger's possible look at Sophia was intentionally dropped and never shot, we'll probably never know...
But summing up with the main reason for this post, you've got to love the patented Roger Collins sarcastic wit! [snow_cheesy] If Roger had continued to have been written like that had the pilot gone to series, Martin Donovan's Roger definitely would have given Louis Edmonds' Roger a run for his money in the sarcasm department. And Vicki's attempt to cover for Willie is also fairly humorous...
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Really a crying shame that they didn't get the ball rolling again with a new DS right after the theatrical release at least! [snow_huh]
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I missed the 2004 pilot slideshow. All I've seen is the Innovation comics thing which I've stopped following.
The 2004 pilot was fun! Too bad it's not included on that new disc. At least it is available online on Archive dot org for those who want to see it.
cheers, G.
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Ah, OK, now I see that there IS a slide show, but the one that's on display doesn't feature the captures you included in this post from last month. I imagine you simply haven't had time to do captures from the actual episode. And that's entirely understandable given how very heavily laden your plate is, MB!
All the best, G.
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Given that whenever the pilot shows up on YouTube, it gets taken down, we've been hesitant to use too many captures. So we've used them sparingly...
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the Innovation comics thing which I've stopped following.
This off topic here, but you may want to get back into it because things are about to pick up substantially. Now that Book 2, Issue 1 has laid the groundwork, Issue 2 is about to kick things into gear. And for the most part it's not necessary to have read Issue 1 to understand what happens in Issue 2...
Issue 1 often featured characters we didn't know because they were created for Book 2. But Pete and Fred are gone - and Nathan will interact with Barnabas, Willie, Vicki and Julia. In fact, those four characters are the ones dealt with in the first seven pages of Issue 2 and most often throughout...
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Swamp Thing Review: Sophisticated Suspense (http://www.ksitetv.com/swamp-thing/swamp-thing-review-sophisticated-suspense/194631/)
What does a review of Swamp Thing have to do with the '04 DS pilot? Well, apparently Mark Verheiden is a writer and executive producer on ST, positions he also held on the DS pilot, and this review not only singles out Verheiden's work on the pilot but also laments that "very few people actually got the chance to see" it. Of course, if the pilot wasn't taken down from YouTube, that could have been remedied, but that's not how TPTB want to operate...
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I was a huge fan of the Alan Moore era of Swamp Thing. Moore had a knack for writing genuinely disturbing stories with a minimum amount of gore. The stories after he left the title were extremely uneven. Some were quite good, others just incoherent.
I'm pleased that they are using Abigail Arcane in a large capacity. The character has enough back story to propel a series on her own. I'm not familiar with the actress who's playing Abby but I hope that she's better suited to the material than Heather Locklear was. Not that I don't love Heather when she's properly cast but she had no credibility as a character who was supposed to be from eastern Europe.
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Worst Series Finales of the Decade - WEEDS (https://tvline.com/gallery/worst-series-finales-of-decade-photos/#!13/weeds-worst-series-finales/)
Yes, the guy with the mustache on the bottom left of the photo is indeed Alexander Gould, who played David in this pilot:
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/David_grave.jpg)
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He's a long way from Finding Dory and even further away from Finding Nemo.
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I've mentioned this before, but for the life of me I don't understand why today's quote in the '04 Pilot Slideshow -
Page 36 - Roger (still suspicious): 'As long as I'm
not involved. Welcome to Collinsport.'
- was dropped in the YouTube version of the pilot. It completes the scene by letting the audience know Roger has given his permission for Barnabas to restore the Old House, whereas in the YouTube version Barnabas' request is left dangling. Weird. Plus, deleting any Roger material is a huge shame...
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I'm still baffled by why the 2004 pilot wasn't included in that long delayed home video release earlier this year. Presumably, WB or whoever controls the rights wanted more moola than the distributor was willing to pay.
Meanwhile, this story is so vague that it does not really warrant a new thread IMO, but perhaps eventually it will qualify for one?
http://www.collinsporthistoricalsociety.com/2019/08/a-new-dark-shadows-tv-series-is-in-works.html
G.
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I'm still baffled by why the 2004 pilot wasn't included in that long delayed home video release earlier this year. Presumably, WB or whoever controls the rights wanted more moola than the distributor was willing to pay.
Your guess is as good as anyone's as to why the pilot wasn't included, but I don't know if money was an issue. For several years the pilot was controlled by Warner Brothers, and supposedly they went so far as to have it locked away in a vault except for the times when it was being shown at Fests. But when the pilot was pulled from YouTube the reason given was because of a copyright claim by MPI Media Group (which came as quite the surprise, but that's another discussion) - and MPI is the company that released the Master of Dark Shadows video. Who knows? At this point everything seems so convoluted.
Meanwhile, this story is so vague that it does not really warrant a new thread IMO, but perhaps eventually it will qualify for one?
Fascinating. But as the article rightly points out, so much has to and can happen before a new DS can get made and actually see the light of day. I don't really know much about Bradley Gallo. The only thing I do know about him is that he's worked mostly on independent projects, but that doesn't really tell us much so far as getting a new DS off the ground goes. But I'm sure we all remember that back in the '80s another independent producer tried to get a DS reunion movie made and nothing ever came of that, despite many of the original stars expressing interest when approached. Although, there's one big difference now: DC has passed on and it was because of DC that the reunion movie never got off the ground. But DC is no longer with us, so...
Thanks so much for posting the link, Gothick. [ghost_smiley]
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A couple things that I neglected to comment on with regard to a potential new DS:
- It's interesting that Bradley Gallo is apparently already working with Warner Brothers. That must mean they already have the rights to do DS as a series. Not being able to secure the rights to DS is what killed the '80s reunion move. But either Warner Brothers and/or Gallo have already passed that hurdle.
- and that could be because some online reports say Amasia Entertainment, the company that would do the potential series, was founded by DC's two daughters. But I can't find confirmation of that. All the sites I've found say Gallo and his partner Michael Helfant founded the company. Who knows? Though all may be made clear eventually.
- And supposedly "the major streaming services are being targeted." But I wonder if Warner Brothers might consider a DS series for their own upcoming streaming service? It's going to become available at some point in the spring of 2020. Given everything that still needs to happen before a potential new DS can see the light of day, it's not likely it could be ready that early. But a great deal of WarnerMedia is already expected to be a part of the service, including all the Warner Brothers produced shows on the CW and HBO, as well as additional content produced by them.
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Well, here's news of a project Bradley Gallo is definitely moving forward with:
Emily Blunt, Jon Hamm Join Jamie Dornan in ‘Wild Mountain Thyme’ (https://variety.com/2019/film/news/emily-blunt-jamie-dornan-jon-hamm-in-wild-mountain-thyme-1203321383/)
The interesting thing is that even though he's an independent producer, he certainly works with big/hot names. And as the Forbes article which referenced DS also mentions, he recently sold a film starring Academy Award winner Olivia Colman, and you don't get much bigger or hotter than she currently is. In fact, she'll be portraying Queen Elizabeth II is the upcoming 3rd season of The Crown (with Helena Bonham Carter playing her sister, Princess Margaret).
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I've discovered another editing difference in the version of the pilot that's circulated online versus the version that's been shown at Fests:
I meant to mention that I find yesterday's quote in the slideshow -
(http://www.dsboards.com/2004pilotquoteimages/0304ds2004_0.jpg)
Page 11 - Victoria: 'Only that he's troubled, and runs
through tutors like most kids run through socks.'
- to be one of the most amusing in the script. I did remember that, unfortunately, the amusing part regarding David going through tutors like most kids run through socks doesn't appear in the original cut of the pilot, the one that's been shown at Fests - only the part about David being troubled does. However, when I checked the online version to see if I could get a screen capture of the part where Vicki says David is troubled, I discovered even that part doesn't appear in the online version. In fact, the exchange between Vicki and Carolyn regarding David is very different.
The Fest version (which is very close to the script):
Carolyn
So...how much did they tell you about David?
Vicki
Only that he's troubled. And I read his psych evaluation on the trip up. According to his shrink, he's hyperactive and suffers from A.D.D...
Carolyn
Fascinating. David's problems go much deeper than that.
(A beat)
I hope I'm not scaring you. (laughs)
Vicki
(nervous laughter - regaining composure) He's a little boy, not the Boogeyman.
The online version:
Carolyn
So...how much did they tell you about David and his imaginary friend Sarah? I hope I'm not scaring you. One time, David drained all the blood from a squirrel. (laughs)
Vicki
(nervous laughter - regaining composure) He's a little boy, not the Boogeyman.
No mention of Sarah in the Fest version - and no mention of draining squirrel blood. And none of any of that is in the script, so quite possibly it was come up with on the day of filming - possibly even as an adlib...
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I still have no idea why this was done and it irks me every time I'm reminded of it. [easter_angry]
I've mentioned this before, but for the life of me I don't understand why today's quote in the '04 Pilot Slideshow -
Page 36 - Roger (still suspicious): 'As long as I'm
not involved. Welcome to Collinsport.'
- was dropped in the YouTube version of the pilot. It completes the scene by letting the audience know Roger has given his permission for Barnabas to restore the Old House, whereas in the YouTube version Barnabas' request is left dangling. Weird. Plus, deleting any Roger material is a huge shame...
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Rob Bowman left as director
It was bad enough that Rob Bowman's exit as director of the pilot in favor of his directing Elektra was likely a contributing factor to the pilot not going to series because the WB didn't like what P. J. Hogan had done as director (even though the WB hand picked Hogan), but now to learn that Jennifer Garner was basically forced to star in the movie -
Actors who were forced to play roles against their will: Jennifer Garner - Part 1 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/actors-who-were-forced-to-play-roles-against-their-will/ss-AAP0xri?li=BBnb7Kz#image=15)
Actors who were forced to play roles against their will: Jennifer Garner - Part 2 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/actors-who-were-forced-to-play-roles-against-their-will/ss-AAP0xri?li=BBnb7Kz#image=16)
- really makes Bowman's exit and the turn of events because of it sting. If Garner hadn't been forced to do the movie, perhaps there wouldn't have been no movie and Bowman never would have exited, so who knows what may have happened because up to P. J. Hogan taking over it was widely believed the '04 DS was a sure thing to go to series. But then, unless someone really can use I Ching wands to go back and change things, everything is moot at this point...
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Actors who were forced to play roles against their will:
Jennifer Garner (https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/actors-who-were-forced-to-play-roles-against-their-will/ss-AAZZy89?cvid=36e07b55efd44936832ca507a43ee1e5#image=15)
Jennifer Garner (https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/actors-who-were-forced-to-play-roles-against-their-will/ss-AAZZy89?cvid=36e07b55efd44936832ca507a43ee1e5#image=16)
If only she hadn't done the movie, then perhaps Rob Bowman would not have exited the pilot to direct Elektra instead, and the belief that it was a sure thing that this pilot would go to series may have come to pass. But alas...
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Is the version that was shown at the Festival available anywhere?
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[pointing-up] I wish. But if it is, I've never come across anyone providing a link to it. And when I finally got a chance today to search for it myself, I came up with zilch.
I did find some interesting things in my search, though:
While a link that's provided some posts back in this topic is still active, the pilot has disappeared from other places. Copyright issues? Perhaps not because:
The most interesting thing I discovered is the pilot is once again available on You Tube, despite having been posted and removed from there more than once in the past. It's been available again there since December 19, 2019. So, apparently enforcing WB's copyright is no longer as big an issue as it was back in 2017. Given that, perhaps one day the original edit of the pilot will show up online. Considering there's material in it that isn't included in the currently available edit, we should only be so lucky. (Though I'm still grateful for the currently available edit because there's material in it that isn't included in the original edit.)
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I have no idea when they were added, but when I checked out the pilot's section on IMDb today I noticed that someone has added two stills that I've never seen before. Both feature Alec Newman and Marley Shelton and deal with Banabas taking Vicki to Josette's room. I believe one is even from from a deleted scene in the sequence.
Thanks for bringing the pilot up in another topic, Gerard , because otherwise it's not likely I would have gone to IMDb today...
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[pointing-up] I just realized that another rare still, of Kelly Hu and Michael D. Roberts as Dr. Hoffman and Sheriff Patterson, has been removed. Who knows why? [santa_undecided]