DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '13 II => Topic started by: The Doctor and K9 on December 08, 2013, 06:48:29 PM
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Here's an eBay listing for a 1225 episode collection of tapes.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DARK-SHADOWS-KODACHROME-16MM-PROTECTION-PRINT-COLLECTION-1966-1971-/281223043311?pt=US_Film&hash=item417a3318ef
I wrote to the seller.
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From: cmcviefan
To: interfilmartentertainment
Subject: Details about item: cmcviefan sent a message about DARK SHADOWS KODACHROME 16MM PROTECTION PRINT COLLECTION 1966-1971 #281223043311
Sent Date: Dec-08-13 08:50:47 PST
Dear interfilmartentertainment,HelloEpisode 1219 is missing from the DS llibrary. Did you count these cannisters? If there are 1225 as you mentioned in your post, then you have an episode that's considered lost. I think you might be able to get more money from MPI or Dan Curtis Productions if you take it to them. I have a link to the reconstruction of the ep to check against whatever may be in a cannister labled 1219. If you have any questions, please contact me. I'm trying not to get too excited about this. Best wishes,Joe - cmcviefan
And here is his answer.
Dear cmcviefan,Joe,yes I have that episode as well. I once offered prints to MPI but they said they have everything and don't need anything. I'll wait and see what happens.- interfilmartentertainment
What do you all think?
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That might well be the biggest find since Darren Gross found the footage from Night of Dark Shadows.
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Just try to make sure it really IS the missing episode. Due to different ways of counting and number shows, it's easy for an episode to have a number on it that does not tally with the "correct number."
If you do buy the show and want it converted to a format you can watch, feel free to PM me--I know someone who may be able to help you.
Best,
SF
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I've also spoken to him and he confirms that the set is complete of ALL 1225 episodes, including missing 1219 and all 30 of the missing color episodes...in color.
How the existence and creation of color kinescopes back in the day was unknown and never mentioned in any of the paperwork or documentation for the show is a mystery to me.
There are several questions that need answering- he needs to post images from film frames to confirm what he's selling actually is (not stock framegrabs which is what is up there now) what he says it is and shots of the film cans where one can actually real the labels. That way I can confirm some technical information, like film lab, creation date etc. to make sure these are not a fan filming off of TV or actually b&w or something else odd.
He's been responsive to a few questions so far, so we'll see where it goes.
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I've chatted with the seller some more and this looks legit- he's a DS fan and collector from way back and knows what he is selling. He'll post some film frames in the next couple of days.
Interested to see where it goes- I just hope it doesn't end up in the hands of a collector who puts it in his storage locker and exalts in the knowledge he can see what no one else can see, which happens a bit with DS rarities.
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If this is legit, it'll be interesting to see what happens. How much will DCP and Worldvision be willing to pay for them? How many lawyers will you-know-who call out to demand that they be turned over free of charge? Regardless, again, if this is legit, it's a remarkable find.
Gerard
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I just hope it doesn't end up in the hands of a collector who puts it in his storage locker and exalts in the knowledge he can see what no one else can see, which happens a bit with DS rarities.
Sad but very true. [santa_sad]
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I have a daugther to put through college; I will not be bidding.As for getting the tapes through legal channels, I'm pretty sure that the statute of limitations is up on retrieving them. I know that the BBC had leads to Doctor Who episodes. They were not able to search the premises to see if the lead was real or bogus. I'm not an expert on the law, of course.
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Again, if this is legit, I have no problem with the owner of them making some money, even a lot of money, off of it. After all, doesn't you-know-who make sure that some people get and keeps lots of money? But beyond that, it would be great if the owner of these tapes would put some of them on youtube and allow fans to see them, at least some of them, for free. That would burn the grundies of you-know-who. You-know-who doesn't own them; the collector does. It's time to put you-know-who and his army of lawyers in his place.
Gerard
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I read that some old episodes of The Tonight Show made their way into the hands of a collector. He retained the right to keep them, but he was told he'd be sued if he made the shows available to the public. The collector owns the physical tape or film not the rights to distribution or performance.
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Well, if that's also the case in this case, which seems quite possible, then unless whoever ends up owning the tapes decides to make some sort of arrangement with DCP/MPI, no one is likely to ever see them in any type of public manner, much less own DVD copies of them. [santa_sad]
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The auction was ended by the seller.
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Curiouser and curiouser. I have the feeling we haven't heard the last of this... but then, who knows.
Let's hope we're not all saying at some point down the line, "What might have been... can never be." (quoting the late great Sandor Rakosi)
G.
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I've been looking into this with a great deal of hope, but the further I go... something doesn't smell right. I could be wrong, but something is not jelling.
I'd take all of this with a grain of salt right now. Sometimes things that sound too good to be true, are.
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I agree that "something doesn't smell right." One reason 1219 was missing in the first place, we were told, was that a backup copy was never made. It was never syndicated. We are lucky to have the series at all. Those kinescopes were not buackups; they were made for stations that wanted to timeshift DS. The network did away with the kinescopes a year or so before the series ended, hence the "lost episode."
What bugged me from the get go was the fact that he never highlighted the fact that the "lost episode" was supposedly included. I wanted to get a fresh perspective from everyone, so I made no mention of my reservations. I siimply asked what you all thought. Unless he reposts soon, I smell a hoax.
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It's too bad. I'd personally much rather have a pristine color videotape of the 1795 episode depicting the arrival of Angelique and the Countess at Collinwood. Now THAT would excite me.
G.
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It's too bad. I'd personally much rather have a pristine color videotape of the 1795 episode depicting the arrival of Angelique and the Countess at Collinwood. Now THAT would excite me.
That's another thing that bothered me. I didn't think about it until Darren alluded to it, but if color backups existed why were BW kinescopes sent to stations in the first place?
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Yes, it does get stranger the more you think about it. And the really odd thing is, if the whole thing was a hoax, how did the seller ever think s/he would be able to get away with it once a buyer received the tapes and saw that what they ended up with wasn't as described? Well, unless the eBay ID is also a hoax and s/he planned to up and disappear. Though if s/he wasn't as legit as initially appeared, that could easily explain why s/he ended the auction. Perhaps s/he never expected questions from knowledgeable people - or at least that s/he could fudge through any questions. But when faced with probing questions, s/he got cold feet.
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Wow, very interesting indeed. The fact that they suddenly took the auction down seems very fishy to me though.
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I was hoping to find the collection relisted, perhaps with more description and a higher starting bid. I'm almost positive this was a scam.
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This would be amazing if true. The seller does look legitimate. But it contradicts what MPI has stated - and wouldn't DCP have known if this episode existed somewhere? Please keep us posted.
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This would be amazing if true. The seller does look legitimate. But it contradicts what MPI has stated - and wouldn't DCP have known if this episode existed somewhere? Please keep us posted.
While DCP might be able to know what was originally produced (original master tape, syndication copies, kinescopes, etc.), they would have no way of knowing for certain which of those copies were still in existence, or whatever other copies may have been "unofficially" produced. It is certainly possible that a videotape copy of episode 1219 exists somewhere, for instance if a TV station taped the network transmission so they could broadcast it at a different time. But the likelihood of that copy showing up, if it even does exist at all, is not very high. But such miracles are known to happen, and are what give us hope.
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This continues to unravel, as expected.
The photo of the 16mm kinescopes that the seller on ebay used is a shot from a NY Sun article from 2008! It's of a NY Public Library 16mm film collection. All the rest of the images in the auction were framegrabs, easily pulled from the internet. Not a single actual photo of film or the items supposedly for sale.
http://www.nysun.com/arts/public-library-liberates-trove-of-16-mm-films/84856/
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Taking and using a photo from an article in the NY Sun to represent the collection of DS eps was really sloppy. And as the evidence that this was nothing more than a hoax appears to be mounting, I still can't imagine how this person ever thought they could get away with it?! [santa_undecided]
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Taking and using a photo from an article in the NY Sun to represent the collection of DS eps was really sloppy. And as the evidence that this was nothing more than a hoax appears to be mounting, I still can't imagine how this person ever thought they could get away with it?! [santa_undecided]
I imagine he had thought he could rip someone off quietly and slip away. He doesn't have many feedback points, so he probably got the acccount with the intention of ripping a few people off and then abandoning it. I doubt he expected this much interest and probably got scared off when he realized he'd be swindling someone who had a community of people behind him (her). That's the only scenario that I think makes sense. Any other ideas?
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Did this person actually think that DS fans don't count among themselves those very familiar with everything and will spread the word about possible farces like this?
Gerard