DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '11 I => Topic started by: Taeylor Collins on January 28, 2011, 02:18:43 AM

Title: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Taeylor Collins on January 28, 2011, 02:18:43 AM

I am creating this thread because I would like to give Laura some love. I want to add first that I don't think that Laura gets her due. My opinion is that if there was no Laura, they wouldn't have went all out and added the vampire.  I remember one of the writers saying the same thing although it escapes me at the moment who it was.   I personally think that the Laura story was an amazing preamble to what was to come on DS. I absolutely love the fact that this story is a great supernatural tale that is also composed of traditional soap elements as well.  I think that if DS would have continued with this mantra instead of all manner of supernatural creatures running amok (1968 anyone) then the show perhaps wouldn't have ran out steam as quickly.  Side note: I love 1968, but I am sure you get my point.

I also want to reflect on the fact that before I had seen the original show I was extremely intrigued by what was up with Laura in the Revival.  [spoiler] When Maggie meets Victoria on the docks and explains what was going on with David and the fact that Laura was controlling him somehow; I was simply riveted.  "His mother is in an institution in England" [/spoiler]I clearly remember watching that scene and the line sent chills down my spine.

When reviewing the 1991 Revival after watching the original; I feel that Laura would have turned out to be one of the most  intriguing (for me) stories that would have been explored in Season Two of DS 1991. Unless we get a trilogy or perhaps a Star Trek like franchise I doubt Laura will be explored further; however, it would be glorious if it was.

Laura The Phoenix is definitely in my top five of favorite Dark Shadows storylines.  And I have to give props to Diana Millay for her beautiful portrayal of The Phoenix.  Miss Millay as The Phoenix will be emblazoned on my memory until the day I die!  I am so grateful for whomever noticed that Laura was coming from Phoenix and created TV History!

Thoughts????

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Janet the Wicked on January 28, 2011, 03:02:56 AM

I actually just purchased the Laura Storyline DVDs. I haven't had a chance to watch them yet. I love that they're in black and white, they are still doing some location shooting, Burke is kissing all the girls, and we have Frank Garner.
Diana Millay is deliciously creepy as Laura. It's good stuff.

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Gothick on January 28, 2011, 03:56:58 AM

Right on with this thread, Cousin!  In some ways the 1966-67 Laura Collins storyline was THE BEST story DS ever produced, bar none; none of the later difficulties with sloppy writing, non sequiturs, poorly rehearsed actors, continuity blunders, etc.  As you watch it you can also see ways in which the Laura story was a try-out for the recipe they followed when introducing "the Vampire" a few months later.

G.

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on January 28, 2011, 04:56:46 AM

I love the Laura storyline. Diana Millay is brilliant. It's clear to see that Alexandra Moltke enjoyed what she was doing, and Vicki was not only an integral part of the plot, she had a brain and she used it. Actually, the storyline was a triumph in one way or another for all the core cast and characters as everyone already had or came to have some connection/involvement with Laura and her plans for David. It was a well thought out and intricately plotted story that provided meaty material for everyone involved to work with. And what's truly sad is that it doesn't get the attention/credit it deserves because the decision to extend DS beyond the six months it had to prove itself or face cancellation was made by ABC during the Laura storyline. In large part the popularity of Barnabas gave DS an even longer run, but it was the audience's response to Laura that first saved the show.

Quote from: Taeylor Collins on January 28, 2011, 02:18:43 AM

I personally think that the Laura story was an amazing preamble to what was to come on DS. I absolutely love the fact that this story is a great supernatural tale that is also composed of traditional soap elements as well.  I think that if DS would have continued with this mantra instead of all manner of supernatural creatures running amok (1968 anyone) then the show perhaps wouldn't have ran out steam as quickly.

Well, during the Laura storyline Art Wallace was still the head writer. But in 1968, well, he wasn't - DC had proclaimed himself as head writer and Wallace was sadly long gone...

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Taeylor Collins on January 28, 2011, 06:06:10 AM

Wonderful posts by everyone.  I am glad that you guys are happy I decided to give a shout out to Laura.  I thought it was intersting that Diana said that she was going to come back for a third time had the show continued.  I think it would have been amazing if David had been re cast and SORASED so he could come into his half Phoenix powers when he turned 18. I always felt that the reason David was so sensitive to spirits, seeing things in the crystal ball, etc. was because his Phoenix powers were latent but manifesting.

I agree with you MB. The whole cast was in on the storyline and that is what made it so wonderful. Victoria was exactly written the way she needed to be written; plucky, inquisitive, and very protective of David. I liked when she stood up to Laura as well.  I always wondered why an angel never visited Collinsport to help the good side; however, kind of felt as if Josette filled that role in this storyline. She was like the guardian angel in the story alerting the "good guys" when they needed help.  It was just a well thought out story and beautifully executed.  I have only watched it twice but sometimes I wonder if my third view of it's going to push it to the top of my list?

Was Art the head writer at this time? I didn't realize that. I thought he just wrote the first 60 something episodes and then moved on.   One has to wonder how DS would have turned out had the original team stayed in place? Alas...

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on January 28, 2011, 06:27:15 AM

Quote from: Taeylor Collins on January 28, 2011, 06:06:10 AM

Was Art the head writer at this time? I didn't realize that. I thought he just wrote the first 60 something episodes and then moved on.   One has to wonder how DS would have turned out had the original team stayed in place? Alas...

Art Wallace plotted the show and wrote the first 65 scripts all by himself. But when that proved too exhausting, he brought on Francis Swann and they traded script writing up until Ron Sproat and Malcolm Marmorstein were brought in. Then Wallace focused exclusively on plotting and creating characters, which is what most head writers do best. And he remained with DS right up to and including the development and introduction of Barnabas.

Have you ever read the original brief outline in Shadows on the Wall for what the Laura storyline was to be before the decision was made to go supernatural?

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Taeylor Collins on January 28, 2011, 08:23:31 AM

I haven't MB. I am looking for a bargain for SHADOWS ON THE WALL but haven't found one yet.  I am sure it was typical soapy stuff eh?  My friend found it for 8 dollars in mint condtion on Ebay!

Also thanks for the additional information about Art Wallace etc. :)

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Gerard on January 28, 2011, 04:18:32 PM

I, too loved the Laura storyline, from its plot to writing to acting.  Diana Millay was so good, especially when she took her characteristic defensive posture:  head held up, eyes looking down, mouth closed tightly while speaking but with that smirky grin.  But I have to add that my favorite Diana Millay scene wasn't from the present-day Phoenix story, but from the 1897 one, where she and hubby Edward verbally duke it out over who was the bad parent.

Gerard

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on January 28, 2011, 05:15:20 PM

Quote from: Taeylor Collins on January 28, 2011, 08:23:31 AM

I am sure it was typical soapy stuff eh?

Let's say the "capping event" was supposed to be Laura's death "under mysterious circumstances," with Vicki accused and put on trial (with Frank Garner defending her). And they probably could have done something similar even after turning the story supernatural because the authorities could have believed that Vicki was responsible for the fire in the fishing shack (we know she wasn't - but we also know how the authorities on soaps operate, particularly the authorities on DS  [wink2]). (Though who knows how in heaven's name Vicki would have gotten off?) But instead after Laura's fiery demise they decided to do the Liz blackmail storyline, which in the Shadows on the Wall chronology was actually supposed to take place before Laura's return. Though I absolutely love how they used the blackmail storyline as a counterbalance to the introduction of Barnabas. But that's an entirely different subject for an entirely different topic...

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: michael c on January 29, 2011, 05:23:45 PM

great topic. it should come as no surprise to those here that i love this storyline. it's very close to being a personal favorite.

in terms of the show's overall continuity the laura story exists in almost complete isolation. it effects very little what came before or after it. in this way it almost functions as a little self-contained series-within-a-series. it has it's own tempo that's quite unlike any other storyline.

after it's over it's over. there's the very occasional and cryptic reference to "roger's wife" or "david's mother" but laura is never mentioned by name again(in the present)and the whole "pheonix" thing is certainly never even alluded to.

diana millay is phenomenal. her performance is electrifying. i love how vicki functions as a sort of "nancy drew" type of character here. kind of a girl mystery solver. i watched the show from the beginning and when i first got into fandom i was surprised to hear vicki constantly refered to a "clueless" because this was the vicki i knew. it wasn't until later years that she picked up those qualities.

in some ways this is "my" DS  because it's really the first storyline i was mesmerized by and i always remember i watched it over the winter and it's totally curl up under the covers stuff. i was hooked the minute laura walked into the collinsport diner(in a hat and gloves no less!). her delivery was so languid and odd i was entranced.

and oh the showdowns during this plot! nearly every character goes toe-to-toe with laura and the results are always genius. it's a true gem for me.

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Gothick on January 30, 2011, 04:37:39 AM

I just loved Laura's showdowns with Liz.  The two were so well matched.  There was a regal, icy attention to etiquette between the two, and yet you could feel the rage and resentment boiling underneath.  Fantastic work from both actresses.

G.

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Brandon Collins on January 30, 2011, 05:36:46 AM

I read and still own (I think) Shadows on the Wall and I loved it mostly because it was interesting to see how things were originally outlined to occur and how they were actually written for the television show.

Laura's storyline has always been one of my favorites even though I've only seen it probably twice. I don't currently have the DVDs of that storyline but with my regenerated interested in DS hopefully I'll buy them soon so I can rewatch some of the glory days of DS. I remember liking it because not only was it superbly acted but it was also excellently written, with dramatic twists and turns at the appropriate places and (for the most part) good old soap opera storytelling.

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Taeylor Collins on January 30, 2011, 06:46:33 PM

Good to see you posting again Brandon.  I was talking with someone from this boards and we wondered where you had went.   I always enjoyed your posts. I think we all have our DS ups and downs though. Glad to see your having an up! :) 

Great thoughts guys.  The showdown's were some of the best on the series. The only thing that matched it later on was Julia smacking the hell out of Cassandra. 

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on January 30, 2011, 08:04:59 PM

Quote from: Taeylor Collins on January 30, 2011, 06:46:33 PM

I think we all have our DS ups and downs

As hard as it may be for some to imagine, I had about a ten year period during the late '70s/early '80s where I'd packed away all my DS stuff and had put DS completely behind me. I thought I'd probably never be into DS again and figured it would simply be a fond memory of my past. But that changed not too long after I discovered in '85 that DS was running in syndication on a channel in my area. At first I just peeked in on days off from work to see what was going on - but before I knew it I was hooked all over again. (Who couldn't be when the eps I happened upon were Barnabas explaining to Vicki and Carolyn about Josette's suicide and Julia discovering Barn in his coffin?!) And I haven't looked back since. That's not to say I watch the show all the time - I don't - I probably haven't watched a full ep much less a full stretch of eps since I put together the 40th Anniversary slideshow back in '05/'06. And while I own the DVDs, there are many where I haven't even watched the extras, much less the eps. But obviously I still remain very active with DS through my work here on the forum. And now Midnite and I have embarked on a year long project to celebrate the 20th Anniversary of the '91 Series. And, of course, the Depp/DS film is something most of us are highly anticipating. So, I've embraced the fact that DS will in all probability always be a part of my life. [wink2]  And to get back on topic, the Laura storyline will always be one of my favorites.  [b003]

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Taeylor Collins on January 30, 2011, 09:28:10 PM

I agree MB! To veer off a bit DS was out of my life from 1998-2004!  I had a bad experience in fandom which turned me off.  However, I found this board when the 2004 pilot was being done and I discovered my love for DS again.  I have found so many friends here and new wonderful friends through Facebook, been to Seaview, and working on a new fanzine, met a DS friend I had known since I was 13 and now I am 33. She is my best friend.  It's amazing what DS has brought to my life  Also I am excited about the new movie as well. CAN'T. WAIT. FOR. IT!!!!  I watch the show at least once or twice a week but I am watching to help with some story ideas so that is probably why. 

On Topic:  I am pretty sure Laura is my number 2 favorite storyline now that I have watched it for the second time.

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Joeytrom on January 31, 2011, 04:35:30 PM

What also makes the Laura storyline so unique is that it features different characters who never appear again on DS afterwards- Dr. Guthrie, Frank Garner, Lt. Riley from Phoenix (played by two different actors with no announcement about the change to the viewers).
There is even a live shot of a Phoenix street as well as a morgue scene!

Seeing this storyline a second time, I didn't realize that Dr. Guthrie appeared in an almost uninterrupted run from his first appearance until his last, I think he misses only one episode.  I loved the live shot of his car in flames! 

He was featured so prominently, one would think he would have been kept on the show after this story came to an end, a Prof. Stokes type.   Removing him from the show was a huge mistake I believe.  If you're watching the syndicated series only like I was the first time around, you never would have known he was ever there at all.

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Taeylor Collins on February 01, 2011, 12:03:52 AM

I enjoyed having a parapsychologist around to help solve the puzzles. I missed him after he was gone.

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 01, 2011, 01:30:16 AM

Definitely. Dr. Guthrie is one of my all-time favorite short term characters. Even though when I first watched the storyline in '96, I knew he wasn't going to continue, I was still upset by his death. And if I had been watching the storyline in '67 when it originally aired, I'm pretty sure I would have been really upset when they killed him off. But the great thing about having all of DS available to us is that whenever we want a Dr. Guthrie fix he's only as far away as a DVD (or VHS).  ;)

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: michael c on February 01, 2011, 03:12:54 AM

like bill malloy dr.guthrie was one of those first year characters i found rather attractive(daddy complex?). for real.

frank garner was easy on the eyes too. i actually prefer these guys to the later more conventionally "hunky" characters like quentin and jeb. [snow_strange]

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Sandor on February 01, 2011, 05:30:47 AM

Great topic. What a great part to play on a soap opera in the mid-60's: trampy runaway wife, nasty sister-in-law, possessive mother, and a Phoenix to boot! Only Diana Millay could be so rapturous and sublime and lovable in the role. She's one of those actresses who, when playing a role she relishes and relates to in ways no other mortal being could, takes you on a wild roller coaster ride through her character's twisted passions - guaranteed. Millay was no slouch on some great episodic late 50s/early 60s TV shows (Perry Mason and Route 66 come to mind) - with the blonde hair, the mole, the sharp intensity in her crystal blue eyes, she always left a memorable impression everywhere she went.

As MB pointed out, props to the Laura storyline and all involved, for boosting the show's ratings, taking it to stranger dimensions for a daytime series, whereby ABC allowed Dan Curtis time to develop and present Barnabas Collins to the masses.   

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Brandon Collins on February 01, 2011, 05:33:45 AM

Quote from: Taeylor Collins on January 30, 2011, 06:46:33 PM

Good to see you posting again Brandon.  I was talking with someone from this boards and we wondered where you had went.   I always enjoyed your posts. I think we all have our DS ups and downs though. Glad to see your having an up! :)  

Thanks Taeylor! I appreciate it! To add a little more to the "out of the ds realm" topic, I literally have packed away all of my DS stuff except for my DVDs. There was a time when I had my signed pictures framed on displayed, and my various collectibles displayed around as well. But now all of that is packed away and I'm actually thinking about selling some of it, as soon as I can figure out what I can part with. lol

I definitely agree with the idea that the short term characters featured in the Laura storyline were some of the best of the series, and it is definitely a shame that Guthrie was not continued in some form. One would've thought he could've been brought back as a ghost or something, given that so many other characters were. It would've been cool if his "Great great grandfather" or whatever had've appeared when Laura reemerged in 1897(? someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

The reason the Pheonix storyline works so well is because it truly is a classic peace of storytelling. A marriage goes awry and after the breakup the ex resurfaces and it seems she's more than everyone originally thought. All she wants is her child to come with her into the fire and become like her, living forever as a supernatural being. Her selfishness in this aspect makes her somewhat like Angelique, and definitely her will and determination to reach her goal rivals Angelique's best day.

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: michael c on February 01, 2011, 04:45:57 PM

another word on john lasell(dr. guthrie)...

because not just one 1960's small-new-england-town-with-secrets soap opera is enough for me i've been watching "peyton place". lasell appears in one or two episodes as the divorce attorney of bad girl betty anderson(the lovely barbara parkins)during her breakup with golden boy rodney harrington(ryan o'neal).

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Taeylor Collins on February 03, 2011, 01:45:45 AM

I honestly have never seen this character as "evil" She wants to give her child eternal life and take him to Paradise.  I like stories such as  this.  Season 4 of Angel and Season Seven of Charmed dealt with Utopia's and I feel these stories are akin to the Phoenix storyline.  There is a price to pay, but is it too high a price for eternal rebirth and living in Paradise?

Title: Re: Laura The Phoenix --Your Thoughts?
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 05, 2011, 05:22:06 PM

Not that this has much to do with the storyline, but I came across this Sci-FI add from '97 while working on the captures for this week's WP eps:

(http://www.dsboards.com/images/eat-act.jpg)