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Members' Mausoleum => Luciaphil's Idle Thoughts => Luciaphil's Idle Thoughts '02 => Topic started by: Luciaphile on July 27, 2002, 03:51:34 AM

Title: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Luciaphile on July 27, 2002, 03:51:34 AM
Fashion notes first . . .

Just wondering.  Why does Willie wear his windbreaker indoors?  Drafts?

Liked Maggie's blue short-sleeved dress with the striped detail.  Think it served to delineate her figure so she wasn't swimming in the dress.  KLS was a twig!  Also have noticed that her hemlines are beginning to make their upward climb.

Hated the bright green sleeveless dress they had KLS in.  The color was great; the cut was not and the fabric looked very cheap.

Okay, Josette :)  I know you like the solid white frock of Angelique's, but to me it shall ever be her most heinous, scary, evil dress.  My chief problem with it is that I don't think it's very flattering.  The gathers which go like two different ways make Parker look dumpy, and she wasn't dumpy.  That and the lighting guy had her looking green as well.  Mr. Spock and Kermit the Frog should be green; the cast of DS should not.

Yuck to Vicki's gray pleated skirt.

And Carolyn's most singularly unattractive outfit makes its debut.  I am thankful that after one or two more episodes it goes into the void.  I speak, of course, of the taupe dress.  Again with the atrocious cut and the color is beyond ick.  Completely washes Barrett out, and why did she choose to go sans brassiere for this one.  Not a smart idea.

And lastly, I turn my attention to La Bennett.  On the night when we see her clearing out her wardrobe, we first are treated to her in a teal robe.  It's very fetching.  Presumably a few hours later, she's changed this for an icky Queen Mother powder blue nightgown and robe.  And then magically--she awakes in a fuschia striped number.  Now, I love the last.  I like how the fabric hangs in back and it's a great color on her, but what is this?  Parallel time wardrobe?

Onto the shows . . .

The Tom bites Julia scene was very sexy . . . until Don Briscoe chose to cross his eyes.

Hehehe Julia doesn't want to share with Liz (okay, okay, the more conventional interpretation is that she was concerned for Elizabeth's well-being, but mine is more fun, admit it).

These episodes were much more enjoyable for me.  One of my favorite scenes is the one where Willie is standing there snickering to himself while Barnabas comes up with all these reasons why he's worried about Julia.

"You're acting like some man whose secretary is missing."

Very nicely done.  I'm not a B&J adherent much, but like it or not, Julia and Barnabas do share a relationship of sorts--platonic, not-so-platonic--there's something there and it was nice to see acknowledgement of that.

Liz and her death obsession.  Yawn.  I so don't care.  I have to admit though she's right about Barnabas not knowing much about Roger.  And in a way, it'a an appropriate curse that makes a good deal of psychological sense as far as the character goes.  Elizabeth is probably afraid deep down that she's "buried" herself by having shut the world out for nearly 20 years.  But good God, it's so bloody tedious.

Liked the struggle between Tom and Barnabas, which was suitably dramatic, or would have been if Briscoe had not been so hammy.

No one seemed surprised when Elizabeth shot up from behind the arm chair which seems kind of odd.  I mean, she's not a child.  If I saw a 50+ year old matron popping up from behind the Chesterfield, I think that would rate a jaw drop or two.

Also loved the scene between HAA and Grayson Hall.  The verbal fencing was a joy to hear and there was just the right amount of tension.  About bloody time the writing started to improve.

Holy speedy recovery!  It was remarked upon in the main forum, but here's my two cents.  You would think that it would take longer than 24 hours to replace the drained fluids without benefit of a transfusion.  But hey, Julia is set up for electricity, maybe she ordered some blood when she bought the generator  ;)

As far as the debate over Nicholas Blair and his involvement in the mess goes.  It was refreshing to see Julia, at least, using her mind and pointing out a few facts to Barnabas.  Am I right in thinking that this little interlude with toothsome Tom restored some of her brains?

Maggie, Maggie, Maggie.  Is it possible for someone to have held a job as a waitress, experiencing the worst of humanity (and I thought retail was bad) and not have developed a fairly accurate sense for when someone is hitting on her?  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce the reason behind Mr. Blair's "kindness" and "generosity" as well as the fact that this is just not the sort of man that commonly is referred to as "kind."  

Also remain deeply puzzled as to the reluctance to take the two grand for the painting.  In the first place, Sam did once command that kind of a price--that's what Barnabas paid to have his portrait painted.  In the second, I do believe that the value of an artist's work typically goes up after their demise.   Aside from that, let's consider:

1. She has no discernible form of income.  
2. She's engaged to be married to a working stiff and presumably any kind of money would be welcome.
3. Sam doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to leave behind a healthy little nest egg.
4. Bills must be coming due (mortgage, utilities, food, groceries, the tab at the Blue Whale).

With those sorts of pressures, I would say you smile politely the minute some sucker offers to buy a painting, take the money, and you run to the bank.  Again, not rocket science.

And speaking of Maggie's boyfriend.  I've always wondered.  What effect do you think distance would have on the power of the vampire?  They always talk about running far away in the vampire stories, but no one ever actually does.  Let's just say that oh, Joe someone finds the cash (and I know he wouldn't have it, but hypothetically speaking) and while he's got the will power, gets on a plane that's going to I dunno, Canberra or say, Abilene.  And the plane takes off and gets wherever.

Meanwhile there's Angelique who's hardly the sharpest knife in the drawer, these days either.  By the time she figured out why Joe wasn't answering, what exactly could she do?  I dunno.  Just a thought.

More things that should make Maggie go hmmm.  Nicholas Blair shows up at like 4AM with the vaguest of excuses.  Honey, get a clue.  I wouldn't blame her for ditching Joe, but it's pretty obvious why Blair's there.  

As far as Joe goes (and Crothers is really amazing with these performances, btw), it's also painfully obvious that the guy's problems go a lot deeper than another woman.  Cheating men typically don't appear this tortured and don't act that erratic.  I can see why Maggie would give him the old heave-ho (and I mean this in the kindest way--but her father's dead.  She is at a crossroads.  Maybe it's time to say sorry, and move on), but my first thought here as to what's wrong would be mental illness, not another girl.  But then I did say that Maggie wasn't that bright.

Some nice dialogue here.  Angelique seems kinda mystified as to why Joe keeps fighting her.  It's sort of like watching a sociopath trying to figure out why some people bother with things like laws and codes.

I have to say that Lucretia Borgia is a better choice for most evil woman in history than Elizabeth Bathory (although revisionist historians might disagree).

Jeff is just one creepy human being.  I'm just saying.  

Poor Adam.  I felt distinctly sorry for him as Jeff the self-righteous ass was ragging on him "you were made of dead bodies, nananana."

Roger is a total shadow of his former self.  How he (or any other sentient being) could refer to Jeff as "presentable" is beyond me.  And I cannot believe that he would want Jeff at the cannery (unless he was envisioning a nasty accident with the sardine equipment  ;) )  And what kind of a ditz has no idea what kind of work her fiance does?

I loved Liz's indignation that Richard Garner wouldn't come to the phone at 3AM to discuss her burial arrangements.  

Oh dear, Stokes is a Freudian.  This is the first negative thing about him, but it's kind of a biggie.  Did enjoy Adam taking Carolyn to task for the obvious deficiencies of her education.

Too bad that they didn't do more with Tony.  I thought Jerry Lacy had nice chemistry with Nancy Barrett.  He was an edgy character and I also liked the baggage he brought with him.  Oh well.

Luciaphil
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Josette on July 27, 2002, 05:11:07 AM
Maggie with Nicholas is really unbelievable!  And, while you're indicating that she wasn't too bright, originally she was the sharp one!  But, even if she didn't catch on to Nicholas from all of the previous encounters - when he suddenly shows up at 4 in the morning just because he suddenly had a feeling that there was something wrong and he had to check on her!!  Really!!!  She actually believed that?!!!

(By the way - she had the painting wrapped up for him when he gave her the check.  Evidently Joe's arrival disturbed everyone, because he left the check but said he'd be back for the painting the next day - at which time she informs him she has it ready - he knows that!)

Again, her encounters with Joe - when Nicholas plants the seeds that it could be another woman.  Joe has been pleading with her that he loves her, kisses her, and begs her to keep him there and not let him out.  I can understand her puzzlement and that she might think of mental illness, as you suggested, but I can't imagine that sounding like someone who is going with another woman.

Adam's getting good (it's a shame that aspect is about to come to an end!) - his statement to Stokes about no one caring if anything happens to him and the whole Freud thing and how could Carolyn have lived so long and learned so little (!) were really good scenes.
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Cassandra on July 28, 2002, 09:42:12 AM
Lately it seems as if everyone along with Maggie is loosing their "oomph" these days!  And you're right, this Liz being buried alive business is starting to get more and more tedious each day.  What gets me is that Liz and everyone else seems to forget how STRANGELY Roger was behaving when Vicky bought that portrait to the house! He believed he was Joshua Collins and did nothing but talk to a painting all darn day.  Well why didn't anyone (especially Liz) decide to commit him to Wyndcliff back then?  Yet, when it's Liz's turn to act like she's from another century, they couldn't wait to commit her fast enough.  Also Barnabas, of all people should believe Liz when she says she was put under a curse by Cassandra, yet he too acts like she's gone mad. It's funny how they all forgot so fast about Roger's strange behaviour back then.  I wish Liz would get some of her spunk back and just remind her brother of his own past odd behavior!

It's funny how Maggie's behaving so clueless about Nick's fondness for her. Any guy that comes to your house at that hour with such a lame excuse definetely has something more in mind than "just being concerned."  

Everyone except Julia and Professor Stokes seems to be off in another world these days. Im wondering what happened to all their fighting spirit?  I can remember awhile back when Laura came to town and put Liz under a spell and then tried to harm her own son, how fast everyone seemed to catch on to her.  Even Vicky was pretty swift then too.  She kept suggesting that Liz's illness was caused by Laura and then she did all she could to keep David away from her.  I can't for the life of me figure out what's wrong with everyone now? Either the experiment has gotten everyone crazy or it's just bad writing in this storyline.

I too wish that they did more with the character of Tony Peterson.  After Cassandra left, he seemed to be put in the backround.  It's a shame too because all of his other characters, Rev.Trask, Gregory Trask, etc.. were all so similar, so it was nice to see J.L. playing a much different character for this storyline. :)
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Nancy on July 28, 2002, 06:28:28 PM
It does seem to me that the producer compelled the writers to paint themselves and the show into a corner by every single storyline revolving around Barnabas.  True, he was the major draw of the show, however, it would have made life much easier for the actor playing Barnabas and others too if other actors were given more to do on the show dealing with their own subplots/storylines.   Maybe this decision was based on the fact DS was a half hour show but still you think it would have made the soap more complex and interesting to have characters who were otherwise liked well enough have more storylines that had nothing to do with whatever demonic battle Barn and Julia were engaged in at the time.  Instead, good characters were all but eliminated (dummed down I think was the word used) and other characters were given most of the burden of the show.

Elliot Stokes was an amazing character and more of  him would have been good too.

Nancy

Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Raineypark on July 28, 2002, 09:15:33 PM
Absolutely, Nancy.....and it's not as though there wasn't room in the half hour for it.  No soap opera in history ever "moved along" more slowly than this one.  

If they had done away with the opening "repeat" of the last scene of the day before, it would have freed up minutes-a-day they could have used to develope sub-plots.

If they had picked up the pace of the dialogue, instead of assuming that the audience required remediation, they could have added even more time and space for complimentary storylines.

But they didn't.

Rainey
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Nancy on July 30, 2002, 06:29:18 AM
Was never much of a soap watcher so I don't have much to compare all this to . . however, as we have said, there was much more they could have done.  I understand the concern of keeping the "draw" out there and visible but I think they still could have done that AND created other sidestories.  They had other very compelling characters.  They would not have even gone for Quentin in such a big way but for the fact Frid told them they needed to bring on another leading man to carry the load!  That character got development!

Not just milk, but development.;)
Nancy

Quote
Absolutely, Nancy.....and it's not as though there wasn't room in the half hour for it.  No soap opera in history ever "moved along" more slowly than this one.  

If they had done away with the opening "repeat" of the last scene of the day before, it would have freed up minutes-a-day they could have used to develope sub-plots.

If they had picked up the pace of the dialogue, instead of assuming that the audience required remediation, they could have added even more time and space for complimentary storylines.

But they didn't.

Rainey

Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Dr. Eric Lang on July 31, 2002, 02:45:27 AM
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Just wondering.  Why does Willie wear his windbreaker indoors?  Drafts?

Of course! It's always drafty in the Old House! Barnabas never did install central heating you know.

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No one seemed surprised when Elizabeth shot up from behind the arm chair which seems kind of odd.  I mean, she's not a child.  If I saw a 50+ year old matron popping up from behind the Chesterfield, I think that would rate a jaw drop or two.

LOL! Well, maybe she used to do that all the time. Maybe that's where David learned in from.

Quote
Aside from that, let's consider:

1. She has no discernible form of income.  
2. She's engaged to be married to a working stiff and presumably any kind of money would be welcome.
3. Sam doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to leave behind a healthy little nest egg.
4. Bills must be coming due (mortgage, utilities, food, groceries, the tab at the Blue Whale).

It's conceivable the mortgage is paid, and she does still have that waitressing job at the Collinsport Inn, we just don't see her there anymore. I can see her hesitation in taking Mr. Blair's too-generous offer, but NOT unless she's suspicious of his motives, which she blindly doesn't seem to be. I'm also still at a loss to explain why she isn't suspicious of the man in general, considering what Vicki told her about Cassandra being Angelique.
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: abbeymarch on July 31, 2002, 07:53:06 PM
Luciaphil,
Re "fashion notes". (I've lost the hang [no fashion pun intended] of thequote box.)
You must remember that most of these women were also models. The wardrobe came from Orbach's. Orbach's was polyester knock-off heaven. The clothes were made for real people, not people (women, mostly) who had to resort to any means necessary to keep themselves ultra-slim to keep their jobs.
It was also still very near the time of bra burning & I like to think that Carolyn (who's real name just flew out of my head) was making her own public statement.  Or maybe she was just really late that day.
Just a few thoughts from someone who lived, ate, breathed. & slept fashion in those days.
Which was one of the reasons I loved watching DS!
abbeymarch
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Luciaphile on July 31, 2002, 09:24:47 PM
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Luciaphil,
Re "fashion notes". (I've lost the hang [no fashion pun intended] of thequote box.)
You must remember that most of these women were also models. The wardrobe came from Orbach's. Orbach's was polyester knock-off heaven. The clothes were made for real people, not people (women, mostly) who had to resort to any means necessary to keep themselves ultra-slim to keep their jobs.
It was also still very near the time of bra burning & I like to think that Carolyn (who's real name just flew out of my head) was making her own public statement.  Or maybe she was just really late that day.
Just a few thoughts from someone who lived, ate, breathed. & slept fashion in those days.
Which was one of the reasons I loved watching DS!
abbeymarch


abbeymarch--if you ever met me (or you can ask Nancy, she has), you would know that I'm not exactly the sort who buys her clothes at Saks.  I hate to iron.  I don't wear skirts or dresses much and my figure is closer to Mrs. J's than Maggie's.  My clothes, for that matter, tend toward the dull, conservative, and the plain--I make sure they are cleaned, not too wrinkled, and that they cover the requisite amount of skin.

I am, in short, one of the last people in the world who should be playing "Mr. Blackwell."  ;)

That being said, DS was a television show and IMO, fair game for fashion critiquing.  They had a wardrobe person (or persons--I think the only one who shows up on the screen is Mostoller there--the poor man's Irene) and presumably they were there picking the wheat from the chaff, doing alterations, making sure that the clothes worked for the characters.

I have to say that in most cases, I think Mostoller did a good job.  Some of the actresses, of course, like Bennett looked great in nearly anything they gave her to wear and in almost any color.  Other actresses were less fortunate.  Since it's Mostoller there picking out these things, you would think she would have been making sure that the outfits they got made the actors look good as well as plausible.  Like the taupe dress.  Now Carolyn's supposed to be wealthy, so that the dress looked cheap (and often, you really couldn't tell) was strike 1.  The color made her look like one of those fishes that live in entirely underground.  Strike 2.  It was just a bad cut.  Strike 3.

I hate the dress.

As for her going braless--well, that actually works, I guess.  Carolyn does trend to be a little daring in her attire.  I could see that working.  I just thought that this was the wrong outfit to make the statement in.  8)

Luciaphil,
Fashion Policeperson
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Philippe Cordier on August 01, 2002, 03:35:39 AM
I agree.  :D

That is, I think your observations are very sharp, Luciaphil -- as are everyone's followup comments.

I have missed some episodes lately and think I've watched a few others out of order, and was even considering not bothering to tape/watch for a week or so, especially when I saw yesterday's scene where Angelique was writhing on the "operating" table in the makeshift lab.  It made me feel sorry for Lara Parker.  If that's the type of material she was associated with, it's no wonder her career didn't skyrocket.  (However, we know that she typically had much better material on DS.)

So, just as I was considering not bothering to watch the show for a while (especially after reading someone's comment elsewhere that it doesn't get any better in the next week), I discovered one day's eps I hadn't viewed -- the one where Adam is playing chess, discusses Freud with Carolyn, where Elizabeth calls her lawyers and dictates her new will, etc.  And it actually was quite good.  So I'm hoping the eps won't be completely about this stupid life force experiment.

BTW, I agree, Jeff Clark's character has gotten to be extremely irritating.  I've been wishing he'd be killed off completely by vampire bites.

I'm rather confused now with my viewing in that I remember Julia having been bitten by the Don Briscoe character (and yes, those crossed-eyes completely spoiled the scene), but I'm unclear now if she's under a vampire's power or if I've missed something.  Are both she and Jeff Clark currently under vampiric influence?

About Freud:  I admit I was quite disappointed, too, when I learned that Professor Stokes had told Adam that every man of the 20th century should read Freud.  (Now, Jung -- that would have been more interesting for his character, I think.)

It does possibly reinforce my belief, though, that Stokes is a psychologist who branched off into parapsychology.

Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Philippe Cordier on August 01, 2002, 03:41:41 AM
P.S.  I don't really mind the Liz's obsession with death storyline at all, though I know most people complain about it.  Anything's better than the create-a-mate-for-potential-killer-Adam business.

And actually the death obsession and being buried alive are preoccupations in much of Poe's work.  They speak to all of our deepest fears (at least the first one) though we manage not to think about it too much.
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Nancy on August 01, 2002, 06:29:31 AM
Quote
abbeymarch--if you ever met me (or you can ask Nancy, she has), you would know that I'm not exactly the sort who buys her clothes at Saks.  I hate to iron.  I don't wear skirts or dresses much and my figure is closer to Mrs. J's than Maggie's.  My clothes, for that matter, tend toward the dull, conservative, and the plain--I make sure they are cleaned, not too wrinkled, and that they cover the requisite amount of skin.

I am, in short, one of the last people in the world who should be playing "Mr. Blackwell."  ;)
Luciaphil,
Fashion Policeperson

LOL, Luciaphil is indeed a clean, non-objectionably dressed people.  However, she does have this one bright lime green dress shaped like an awning I never liked and I've felt uncomfortable mentioning it to her . .honey, the lime green dress has gotta go!

Nancy  
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Luciaphile on August 01, 2002, 02:40:21 PM
Quote
LOL, Luciaphil is indeed a clean, non-objectionably dressed people.  However, she does have this one bright lime green dress shaped like an awning I never liked and I've felt uncomfortable mentioning it to her . .honey, the lime green dress has gotta go!

Uh huh, right  >:(

Just kidding  :D

Luciaphil
(who really would rather swan around the suburbs in floor length blue velvet and pearls)
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: abbeymarch on August 02, 2002, 12:47:52 PM
Quote
Luciaphil
(who really would rather swan around the suburbs in floor length blue velvet and pearls)

Unless it's poly/cotton & you can toss it the dryer, I'm not interested. I use my iron for touch ups if what I want to wear didn't come out of the dryer fast enough.

As someone who has spent a tiny amount of time backstage as a costume person...sometimes what you thought was going to be for someone just didn't fit at all, so someone else got it. I think the taupe was originally meant for someone with darker colouring. With TV lighting, Blondes in neutrals can be disastrous.
IMO, Mostoller did not dress Joan Bennett. She may have brought back a lot of possible choices for her, but I think JB eihter chose her own, or someone else did.
I also don't think there were fittings either.

Well, enough prostletizing..I have to get ready for work. So annoying.
abbeymarch
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Nancy on August 02, 2002, 04:58:02 PM
I met Ramse Mostellor in 1993 and the impression I got was that she did all the costumes on DS but had to fight with the producer seemingly every single day to get the basic stuff she wanted.  The same happened in the movie. In other words, it didn't appear that she got much financial cooperation where dressing the actors was concerned.  

Nancy

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Unless it's poly/cotton & you can toss it the dryer, I'm not interested. I use my iron for touch ups if what I want to wear didn't come out of the dryer fast enough.

As someone who has spent a tiny amount of time backstage as a costume person...sometimes what you thought was going to be for someone just didn't fit at all, so someone else got it. I think the taupe was originally meant for someone with darker colouring. With TV lighting, Blondes in neutrals can be disastrous.
IMO, Mostoller did not dress Joan Bennett. She may have brought back a lot of possible choices for her, but I think JB eihter chose her own, or someone else did.
I also don't think there were fittings either.

Well, enough prostletizing..I have to get ready for work. So annoying.

Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Luciaphile on August 02, 2002, 06:37:56 PM
Quote

IMO, Mostoller did not dress Joan Bennett. She may have brought back a lot of possible choices for her, but I think JB eihter chose her own, or someone else did.


I would bet money that you're right about Bennett.  I also have a suspicion that Bennett's wardrobe did not primarily come from Ohrbach's.  I grant you that they could put her in a burlap sack and she probably would look great, but her clothes for the most part always looked miles better than everyone else's.

Luciaphil
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Barnababy on December 26, 2018, 08:08:04 AM
Because I have nothing better to think about right now, just wondering whether all the historical costumes were created for the show or might they have been rented or borrowed from other sources.  Anyone know?
Title: Re: Idle Thoughts--Freudian Slips 7/22-7/25
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 26, 2018, 03:15:19 PM
The costumes for 1795/96 were all rented. The costumes for 1840/41 and 1841PT were all specifically created for the show. And I *think* the same is true for 1897.