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Picking up on a comment in another topic:
And this also pushed back on the NODS restoration and DVD release which it deserves.
Do we know for certain that the release of hoDS and NoDS on DVD has been pushed back? The plan was for them to come out around Halloween 2010, with the Depp/DS film to follow at some point afterward. Even with Burton's extended involvement with AIW, it is still possible that the Depp/DS film could be ready for release in 2010. Though, of course, that all depends on how soon in 2010 it goes into production and whether or not Burton decides to go wild with special effects. But it is doable - so the scheduled release of hoDS and NoDS on DVD may still be on track...
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The release of the two films on DVD, has been postponed and has no release date at all. It won't be put back on the schedule until the movie starts actual production. Until then, the studio can't nail down a timeline for when they feature would be released. While 2010 release is not impossible, with Depp tied to half a dozen or more projects- Lone Ranger, Pirates 4, etc.- vying for his time, it looks highly unlikely that 2010 is feasible. 2011, 2012 probably.
Given the current economy, perhaps we'll have a better chance of WB ponying up the restoration money in a couple of years, if we pass this financial slump.
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Major bummer! [ghost_sad]
Well, the Movies Quotes Slideshow will just have to keep running until hoDS and NoDS actually do come out on DVD. [ghost_wink]
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Sorry to hear that the NODS/HODS DVDs release have been postponed and is still up in the air. I reread my linked post and I did not intend to mean that I knew for a fact that the release had been pushed back. I was only going on with what were previously told that the DVDs release is tied with the movie's production. I am hoping that somehow the movie goes into production early next year and that everything else will fall into place.
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Hooray for Hollywood.
I'm immensely enjoying the Movie Quotes slideshow. Thanks, MB!
G.
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The release of the two films on DVD, has been postponed and has no release date at all. It won't be put back on the schedule until the movie starts actual production.
Given the current economy, perhaps we'll have a better chance of WB ponying up the restoration money in a couple of years, if we pass this financial slump.
I am very disappointed that the DVD release of HODS and NODS has been tied to the projected film project. The existing movies will likely bear little similarity to the upcoming feature film. The younger generation of moviegoers that the new movie will be marketed toward is unlikely to embrace what will seem to be rather dated movies from the 1970s.
I'm certain I'm in the minority, but I personally have no interest in a Dark Shadows feature film directed by Tim Burton.
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I'm certain I'm in the minority, but I personally have no interest in a Dark Shadows feature film directed by Tim Burton.
I'll join you in that minority, Philippe. On the whole, I'm not impressed by the style of modern horror films, and I'm apprehensive about how DS will be interpreted for the current generation.
ProfStokes
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I would to add also that I don't feel that the Johnny Depp audience will hurry up to the nearest video out and purchase HODS and hopefully the restored NODS.My honest opinion is that for the most part it will be 2 different audiences. My own feelings. To be very honest with everyone one involved, I think that this is a huge mistake tohold back the release of HODS and NODS till now I am seeing 2011 or 2012, are you guys kidding all of us or what? This has got to be the stupidest decision regarding these2 films that I have ever seen. This news is really aggravating.I don't feel also that its just WB holding them back.As I have said before, I am grateful I still have my Laser Disc on these films.
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I don't feel also that its just WB holding them back.
Whom do you suspect?
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I simply don't understand why they don't just go ahead and release both movies on DVD; they did on video. It's not like HoDS especially is some unknown film; it saved MGM from almost going bankrupt. It doesn't make sense - you can go into any video rental store and find some totally unheard-of flop of a film, like The Return of the Revenge of the Son of the Thing That Ate Cleveland Part VIII, but HoDS or NoDS? Nope. What's the big deal? I don't know how the entertainment industry operates, so I guess I just don't get it.
Gerard
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Gerard my take on this and from reading other posts elsewhere here is that the hard core DS fans will buy the movies' DVDs independent of the new DS movie. I think WB understands that. But as all big corporations do they try to maximize its profits. WB is timing the release of the DVDs with the new movie so that it will draw attention to the old series and that new fans of the new movie and the DS universe will buy the NODS/HODS DVDs. It's a theory for sure and perhaps a no brainer but I am not totally convinced that this timing theory will dramatically increase the DVDs sales but I could be very wrong. I obviously agree with you in that the DVDs should be released now. Regarding the restoration NODS project, my understanding is that there is no doubt that the project is tied into the new movie's production/release as well as the economic conditions which hopefully gets better next year. I hope I am reading this right.
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Sorry I just needed to correct my post. I would like to see the release of HODS on DVD as soon as possible. I would like to see The NODS released on DVD only after it has been restored. The only benefit of releasing NODS today would be that new fans will know that there was a second DS movie.
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they did on video.
Funny that you should mention the VHS releases of the movies today - today while picking out captures for Robservations for Ep #829, I came across an ad that KLS had done to hawk the movies on VHS from back when Ep #829 ran on Sci-Fi on November 25, 1996:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/kls-movies.jpg)
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Perhaps the tone of my reply was very angry the other night.It is very frustrating to see all the films that have so many of movie lovers and collectors double dipping for directors cuts, and ultimate editions of different films. Yet, HODS, and NODS, are still just sitting there waiting to be released.Movies that never made it to VHS and Laser Disc have made it to DVD.But no House, and no Night of Dark Shadows.Darren, you asked whom do I suspect? Warner Brothers, yes, and perhaps some people that involved with running the Festival. Its just my opinion, and I have been knownto be wrong many times.I still feel, that IF this film is ever made, and I am one of the few that dosen't think it will be made, I don't think that the majority of Johnny Depps audience will be going to the stores and buying House and Night on DVD.The core audience are the original fans, the fans whom liked the 1991 series and went to see the original.Too much time has elapsed, and my feeling is that they be waiting to long till 2011 or 2012 to put them out.These are just my opinions, and I am not trying to hurt anyone else's feelings.I hope it all works out. I hope one day to seethe restored version of Night. It sounds like it willbe a totally different picture. I hope it all works out.
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I don't believe DS is a very large fandom. It makes marketing sense to release the HODS/NODS DVDs as a tie-in to the new DS movie. There will be publicity surrounding the release of the film and you can bet that Depp and Burton will discuss their love of the original TV series. People who like the film are likely to take a look out of curiousity as to what the original attraction was for the actor and the director. I would. I know of several fans who came into this fandom from being exposed to the 1991 revival series. They appreciate the original for what it was.
Unfortunately, NODS is hardly representative of what the series was like. The tone was very different. However, that still leaves the original TV series out there to be discovered via NetFlix, purchase on ebay, etc.
The idea of a new DS movie is exciting for all fans. I don't believe holding off the release of the DVD movies is a plot to drive us off Widows Hill but a way to maximize the marketing for the old series. Nothing like a new DS movie and its publicity to renew interest in what came before.
Nancy
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It's more than about increasing DVD sales, it's about introducing a new audience to the old series which will hopefully increase interest it, maybe get it broadcast on a cable network and increase the sales of the original series on DVDs too. I would imagine (and hope) that the movie DVDs will have spots promoting the original series and perhaps clips from it to entice viewers to check it out.
I believe I am in the minority of fans who intensely dislikes HODS and NODS but I do hope the planned tie-in and promotions will promote new interest in the original.
nancy
I think WB understands that. But as all big corporations do they try to maximize its profits. WB is timing the release of the DVDs with the new movie so that it will draw attention to the old series and that new fans of the new movie and the DS universe will buy the NODS/HODS DVDs. It's a theory for sure and perhaps a no brainer but I am not totally convinced that this timing theory will dramatically increase the DVDs sales but I could be very wrong.
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I haven't followed things like ownership of the series closely, so I'm not sure what the references to WB are that other posters have referred to. The only connection I recall is that the WB network was producing the pilot for the series that never came to be, as happens with many TV and film projects.
I don't believe holding off the release of the DVD movies is a plot to drive us off Widows Hill but a way to maximize the marketing for the old series.
It's more than about increasing DVD sales, it's about introducing a new audience to the old series which will hopefully increase interest it
I'm not informed with insider information, but I feel skeptical that a corporate entity like "WB" would really have an interest or concern with promoting the original ABC series from the '60s and '70s. But if I'm wrong, and they really do have this humanistic interest at heart, I'm still skeptical that delaying release of the HODS and NODS on DVD for a 2010 (or whatever) movie is going to either 1) bring about a major resurgeance of interest in the TV series, or, 2) be a marketing coup for selling the 1970s movies.
Personally, I didn't think the movies were great, but they do have a connection with the original series with the cast and general storylines (plus great locations!), so I would buy them up in a snap.
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I believe I am in the minority of fans who intensely dislikes HODS and NODS
You're certainly not alone when it come to disliking hoDS. I'm actually fascinated though hardly surprised by how many fans have spoken out against it in recent years. For years I thought I was alone in disliking it. However, that being said, I love NoDS. And for quite a while I thought I was alone in that - but I'm very happy to say that is not the case as in those same recent years fans have increasingly voiced their appreciation of it.
I've mentioned this before, but one of the things I find most interesting when it comes to the reviews of the two films is that almost universally, the horror press likes hoDS and dislikes NoDS, whereas the non-horror press tends to be exactly the opposite. One could say that's possibly because hoDS is a total blood/gore fest and NoDS is character/psychologically driven - and that is probably part of it...
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You should consider the fact that DCProductions has a marketing arm and production companies pay to have their products placed for promotion purposes on DVDs and elsewhere. It's a longstanding marketing tool. It wouldn't surprise me at all if DCP uses this tool as it as a stake (no pun intended) in anything related to Dark Shadows.
Nancy
Is'm not informed with insider information, but I feel skeptical that a corporate entity like "WB" would really have an interest or concern with promoting the original ABC series from the '60s and '70s. But if I'm wrong, and they really do have this humanistic interest at heart, I'm still skeptical that delaying release of the HODS and NODS on DVD for a 2010 (or whatever) movie is going to either 1) bring about a major resurgeance of interest in the TV series, or, 2) be a marketing coup for selling the 1970s movies.
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It's not like HoDS especially is some unknown film; it saved MGM from almost going bankrupt.
Unfortunately, this bit of trivia, repeated ad infinitum throughout the years by KLS, is complete hogwash. They made 10 times as much money on SHAFT and TICK...TICK...TICK as they did on HODS, during the same year.
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I haven't followed things like ownership of the series closely, so I'm not sure what the references to WB are that other posters have referred to. The only connection I recall is that the WB network was producing the pilot for the series that never came to be, as happens with many TV and film projects.
I'm not informed with insider information, but I feel skeptical that a corporate entity like "WB" would really have an interest or concern with promoting the original ABC series from the '60s and '70s. But if I'm wrong, and they really do have this humanistic interest at heart, I'm still skeptical that delaying release of the HODS and NODS on DVD for a 2010 (or whatever) movie is going to either 1) bring about a major resurgeance of interest in the TV series, or, 2) be a marketing coup for selling the 1970s movies.
Personally, I didn't think the movies were great, but they do have a connection with the original series with the cast and general storylines (plus great locations!), so I would buy them up in a snap.
Hi Philippe,
WB owns both the DS movies. Every MGM-produced film prior to 1986 is owned by them. The WB has no control whatsoever on the TV series or its reruns.
On the feature film DVD releases, no one at the Fest has any control over when the WB decides to release them.
DVD sales across the board have plummeted, and the massive amount of titles out there makes store shelf space a premium commodity. People have to pay, especially smaller companies, a per copy amount to get chains like Best Buy to stock their titles on the shelves. While online sales sites are fine, it can be the equivalent of putting dvds in a carboard box on the floor, as far as visibility is concerned. The visibility of a title in-stores is of tremendous value. The impulse buy is king. If WB were to release the two films now or last year or the year before, you'd very likely have many chain stores that simply would not order it, or would order one, out of both lack of awareness of the titles, AND the amount of other, newer, hotter titles that they could spend their shelf space on.
A big Johnny Depp WB film brings with it a massive marketing budget, to create and make aware new audiences about what this new DS is. That marketing push creates an awareness of the property, which affects not just the new film but the property itself. You can be assured that the recent hit Star Trek reboot has had an electric effect on sales of the new movie and TV series box sets. The same thing for Dark Knight on Batman DVDs, the new Friday the 13th remake on the originals, as well. That expectation and marketing confidence enables the studio to budget more of a push for the films on DVD, allowing them to place ads, and enabling the sales people to push the title to the retailers, so they put them on shelves. All this visibility and saturation makes itself known to the consumer, quite clearly, who will read the Johnny Depp DS cover of Ent Weekly, and notice that there's a review of the two DS movies on DVD, newly released. It's for the 'Wow, I liked that new DS movie, and gosh jinkies, there's a couple older movies that inspired it... I'll check it out!" effect. The effect of a new movie re-energizes the old franchises.
It's been proven over and over to the studios that this works, which is why they're doing it. They're considering the 10 or 20X the numbers on possible sales if it's tied in to a feature, vs just dumping it out on the market. Plus the sales would surge again if a sequel film is made... It's all pretty understandable, if you think about it.
With the above in mind, look at it this way: if the movie goes poof and doesn't happen, then barely any effort will go into the DVD releases, and you'll be lucky to get trailers on them. While a movie release doesn't guarantee restoration of NODS, the chances are much greater that the necessary budget might be allocated. Without it, the restoration will never happen, and it will remain a pipe dream.
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Darren, I apologize for responding to this so much later, but I've been away for a while, in my own version of time traveling ...
Your reply explains things very well, and the circumstances you describe now make sense to me.
- Philippe
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Cool, Philippe. [ghost_wink]
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I have a few questions. I was wondering, in order to restore these movies anyway, you must have the voiceovers in place of all the actors. My first question is, are all the actors accounted for and did they all do their voiceovers yet? My second question is, Has the voiceover for Grayson Hall been done yet, and if not, who is doing her voice? My feeling is, even if this doesnt fly for another couple of years, i would hope that we get all voices recorded now, just incase, god forbid, something should happen to the actors involved, before the release of the movies. Can someone answer this for me? I would be most appreciative. Thanks, JVjr
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Darren can certainly speak to this more specifically than I can, but so far as I know, at least a few of the actors have already recorded their missing dialogue. In fact, I believe all the missing dialogue for the piano scene has been done.
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Hw JVjr, please excuse the tardy reply- I just spotted this thread today.
To answer your questions: about 75% of the dialogue has all been re-recorded. Grayson's voice double has not been cast or recorded yet. We're waiting until the project is greenlit for that, to give us a wider range in our casting pool. All of the other actors have re-recorded their parts, including Kate Jackson. We need one more day with Ms. Jackson, but that's pretty much it.
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What a lot of work is going into this! Once upon a time I wasn't terribly interested, but having watching the progression of the Night of Dark Shadows slide show this year, I'm really hoping to see the real thing some day.
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If the slideshow (and particularly featuring all the NoDS scenes that were cut) can bring more people to the NoDS party, then the decision to feature the film(s) in a slideshow has been well worth it! [hall2_smiley]
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I guess maybe I am in the minority, because I loved HODS and really disliked NODS. But I hadn't realized a lot was cut out from NODS until I read about it on here. Maybe if ever NODS is totally restored on DVD, I'll see it again and feel differently.
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Anything or anybody having anything to do with DS is of interest to me. I'm very interested in seeing NODS fully restored. Fortunately I have both 'cut scenes' movies on VHS but would love to see both restored but will accept whatever I can get.
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At This point hope they Put them out on Blu-ray as well and as rell as giving us a restored NODS witch i would gess would be High Deffinition give us HD remastered HODS as well. Mabey they could use some digital effects to make the night scenes that were shot during the day look like they were shot at night. But that might be taking it a bit to far.
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[stocking] Very nice to see a new post on the 2 original DS films. Oh, I would love to see them on Blu Ray. Its a new and great format, but at this point, I will love to one day on this site to read that they have been announnced to dvd.Hope everyone out there enjoyed the Holidays, regardless of which one you celebrate, and have a happy and blessed New Year.
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New article about HODS not being on DVD and mentions NODS and the upcoming movie.
http://wearemoviegeeks.com/2010/01/not-available-on-dvd-house-of-dark-shadows/
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Thanks so much for the link, jimbo. [santa_smiley] But what an odd article with some really strange to all out incorrect notions put forth. [santa_undecided]
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Misinformation going viral on the internet is a real concern. I have seen one blogger post something so wrong about DS only to have other websites run wild with it. Even if the original blogger corrects the information it's too late especially with Twitter, Facebook etc.. Years ago all we had to do was write to the author of an article and ask him/her to correct it in print. Even with printed publications these days most of their articles go online so you can't really win.
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Today I happened to spot this thread (mostly from December '09) on the Classic Horror Film Board. It discusses downloads of both DS films that are being sold via Amazon. Near the bottom of the first page are some screen captures from the download of hoDS, including a lovely shot of Barnabas at the costume ball and Stokes and Julia at the dinner after Carolyn's funeral. The shot of Old Barnabas in Maggie's bedroom really shows how much visual material we get in this "widescreen" type release:
http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum.yuku.com/topic/27967/t/video-on-demand-HOUSE-NIGHT-OF-DARK-SHADOWS-on-amazon.html?page=1
One fan who has seen it describes it as an improvement upon the VHS/laserdisc releases (both p&s), but still not DVD quality.
For those with the right equipment at home, it makes a nice stopgap while we're still waiting for WB to set a date for the restored deluxe DVD editions (which every fan worth their salt will want to buy--we're talking major material involving our favorites that will have NEVER seen the light of day before now).
cheers,
G.
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I rented HODS from Amazon tonight through my Blu-ray player (have to use a long Ethernet wire to hook it into my router) . It was nice to watch in widescreen on a 40 inch widescreen TV and other then the choppy red letters in the opening credits you for the most part you could not tell it was being streamed from the internet. The overall picture looked no better then my VHS copy and the DVD transfers I made of it. Since this was the first time i used the Amazon rental service (it did not give me the option to buy) the gave me a $5.00 credit for activating the service and linking it to my Amazon Account the $2.99 rental was free.
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In my opinion, the ultimate versions of HODS and NODS as of now are the DVDs I made of the Turner Classic Movies showing that were commercial free. I recorded these "Live", since I think there's a slight improvement when you record as it's showing versus copying from the DVR. I'm not sure if that's true, but I think I notice a slight difference. I recorded both on separate discs at 2 hour speed. Now I have not seen any of the online offerings, so it's possible there's an improvement. I am in no rush to see these films on DVD as I think that if they were slated for release now, the powers that be would not restore NODS. I think time is on our side. When this Depp film is made, and I believe Depp is too dedicated to the idea to drop it, I believe that we have a decent shot at getting a restored version. That's just my take, but hey I thought Cindi Lauper would be massive and Madonna was a flash in the pan, and I thought Buffy would flop and DS 91 would last for years, so what do I know?
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I watched HODS in iTunes and the picture was fine with one exception. The scene where Jeff meets up with Stokes at the very end of the film is too dark to see anything.
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man do i wish they'd put these on dvd already. hopefully the uncut versions. i know we all wish that. buut i hope they'd put the remake pilot on it as well as a bonus. & really Itunes has the flix on it?
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The discussion sparked by B.Collins' remark about the WB pilot and possibly releasing it has been moved to this topic starting with this post:
The 2004 WB Pilot
[snow_smiley]
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I haven't found this mentioned elsewhere yet, but at one of the festival events in Burbank on Sunday, Jim Pierson mentioned almost offhandedly that "House of Dark Shadows" and "Night of Dark Shadows" would be released on DVD sometime next year (2011), in conjunction with the new movie.
I would note, though, that the Burton-Depp production is only "in development." Mr. Pierson mentioned that the script is in development, which shows that this project has a long way to go. But in the British TV interview with Depp and Burton, which I saw in its entirety, the duo did make it sound like "Dark Shadows" is definitely in their plans.
Mr. Pierson also said that they still need to find an actress to cover Grayson Hall's lines for the deleted scene(s?) that would be restored. This scene or scenes would possibly be included as an extra on the DVD since inserting the scene would disrupt the sequence as it was rearranged by DC after cuts were made.
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I forgot to mention that the script writer is Seth Grahame-Smith, author of "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter", in case that hasn't been posted yet. [ghost_rolleyes]
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For those who may have missed it, the video from Friday Night with Jonathan Ross can be seen via the link in this post:
...the Jonathan Ross interview on the Accidental Sexiness site- it's in 2 parts:
http://www.accidentalsexiness.com/2010/02/27/johnny-depp-tim-burton-talk-alice-edward-and-more/
I forgot to mention that the script writer is Seth Grahame-Smith, author of "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter", in case that hasn't been posted yet. [ghost_rolleyes]
There's a long discussion about that starting here:
Some news today- Variety reports that Seth Grahame-Smith has been signed on as a writer for DS. ...
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That's good to hear that Pierson did make some mention of the feature film DVDs, although I would guess that if the Depp Shadows release gets pushed back later, the same will go for the film releases given how the suits think about these things (as Darren explained so patiently sometime back).
I wonder whether Daryl Schaefer was ever contacted about possibly looping Grayson's missing dialogue. His mimicry of her voice is truly uncanny, and after all, even Sam said that the dialogue should be re-dubbed by a male to get the right quality.
I suppose that if they can't get Daryl, her dialogue could also be represented by subtitles.
G.
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I wonder whether Daryl Schaefer was ever contacted about possibly looping Grayson's missing dialogue.
He was.
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Mr. Pierson also said that they still need to find an actress to cover Grayson Hall's lines for the deleted scene(s?) that would be restored. This scene or scenes would possibly be included as an extra on the DVD since inserting the scene would disrupt the sequence as it was rearranged by DC after cuts were made.
Yes, he said that inserting the cut scenes could at times prove difficult, but that he would push for having both versions (footage restored within the movie as well as kept separate) in a future NoDS release.
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i was reading posts that people made on "IMDB" i sometimes read them just for fun. sometimes for a good laugh as we all do here. anyways, someone on one the movie boards of the films, i forget which one, they may have posted it on both of them. anyways, they were talking about the deleted scenes & such. & if they did in fact exist.
anyways, they posted an interview that Darren Gross here did a few months. no they didn't say the source. i read it & it sounded real. from what i remember he said that the reason he closed the site down was i think folks at WB who own the film. i believe the article said. i guess felt put on the spot or something. bear in mind i forget what the article on this actually said so i'm just going from memory here. so please don't hold that against me. anyways,
than the article went on & said that there is footage for the 2nd "DS" film but that there is no deleted scenes that exist anymore. & that "Dan Curtis" destroyed them all a few years later after he made the film. & he told "Darren Gross" himself this. now i'm not sure if that is indeed true. but i used to read that website of his so him closing it down for the reason that was stated sounded true. to me anyways. & made sense. but if memory serves me right the article could be wrong.
cause to my knowledge he did find footage. my question here after all this typing is, is the article indeed true? if you guys & gals want to read the article that i mention here. that someone posted it's on the movie boards for the "DS" films i'm not sure about the boards for the tv show. the only part i remember fully in that article is the part about the deleted scenes.
the rest i could be wrong about it. cause i read it a few days ago. so bear with me if i'm wrong. he he.
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I would certainaly buy both movies on DVD, but I'm actually rather lukewarm about a generic movie only packaging bereft of special features or restoration. If I want to see those films now, I can choose between my SP DVD copy of a laser disk or my SP copy from Dish Network of the uncut TCM airings. Both of these may not live up to the standards of commercial DVD, but the quality is fantastic and they look superb on my flat screen TV. I saw a sample of the download that's currently being offered, and after a cursory view, it seemed fine as an alternative in the meantime, until the DVDs are out. I'd rest easily if I knew FOR SURE that NODS would be restored and released in five years or when the Depp movie came out, whichever came first. As for HODS, I'd hope they'd do some sort of commentary with some of the actors and/or production people. A rush job to get the movies, a la carte onto DVD is not something I'm dying for.
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Howdy- I don't recall doing an interview on the IMDB. I did post comments and corrections on some of those threads several times...
To clarify, I was saying that there are no deleted scenes or longer versions of HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS-- DC destroyed that years ago.
Of course, we have the full 129min version of NIGHT OF DS, picture-wise, and the audio mostly finished re-recording waiting for full audio editing etc. once we get the WB go-ahead...
I really don't know what Jim was talking about when he said they'd be presented as deleted scenes instead of integrated into the movie. That would be a pretty ghastly development. Plus it would cost just as much to edit the audio and dialogue for deleted scenes as it would to integrate them into the film itself...He was probably just not wanting to make big promises, because after all, it ain't done til it's done, ya know what I mean...?
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Daryl Schaefer was indeed contacted-- I have an audition tape he sent me, and ones from other Grayson impersonators, several years ago.
He's a lovely fellow.
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You misunderstood me. 1stly i personally thought you had found some of the deleted scenes for both films. i thought i had read that somewhere. maybe your old site. but than bear in mind it's been awhile. so i can't really remember. i do recall you looking for QUITE A LONG TIME! anyways, i didn't say you did an interview for 'IMDB" someone posted one you did
when another fan was asking about it. i was just curious if the interview was real cause as everyone here knows, it's not always easy to get things right when it comes to the internet. you could be misquoted in any interview online or off. i do find it awefully sad & dissapointing that you were unable to find any scenes for "HODS" i honestly thought you had.
i was dying to see at some least of the footage inserted back in. cause the film itself doesn't seem like Dan Curtis did a very good job at cutting it. he cut too much out of it. i believe i read somewhere that even Denise Nickerson was in the "HODS" but her scenes got cut. it would have been nice to see those scenes. i have "HODS" on VHS actually. i've been unable to find in any stores "NODS" that's another film that too much got cut & isn't very good. i can't wait until thee footage is back in so the film can be watchable! at least to me. & by the way. if i confused you. my apologies man.
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i forgot to mention & again i'm sorry i didn't realize it until after i posted it. that about the interview it was an interview you had done somewhere. they didn't give a link. so it may have been to some site, NOT IMDB. in short i dunno where they got the link from the interview you gave. but someone found it online & cut & pasted it on the IMDB boards. to correct a fan who was asking about the films. that's what i meant to say. but i didn't do so very well.
please know that i haven't gotten much sleep so bear with me. as my attention span at the moment isn't all there. he he. i just wanted to add that. & thank you for your reply. i was just curious if the interview that you did was real. & i guess it was.
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Dear B. Collins,
Denise Nickerson wasn't in either of the DS films. A publicity item stating that she was slated to be in the projected THIRD film, to be titled either Death of DS or Curse of DS (can't recall which), was published in a 1971 mag, but I think by the time that the little squib was printed, Dan Curtis had already decided not to proceed with a third movie.
Hope you can get some sleep.
Best wishes,
G.
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My recollection of what Jim said was simply he did not know how the NODS will be formatted. Jim said it was possible that the deleted scenes would be a separated feature from the movie. Jim also said it was very possible that there would be a separate theatrical version and a separate full version of the movie with all of the deleted scenes in the DVD.
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I think Denise Nickerson did have a cameo in HODS that was cut. If I remember correctly, she alluded to that in an interview on a PA talk radio special called Collinsport Revisited. I can check that when I get home, but I'm fairly certain that's what she said.
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that's right, i believe i read that in 2 places, the trivia section on 'IMDB" which i admit freely can sometimes be wrong, & i also read that somewhere else as well, in an interview that she did herself. i even think it may have been on her offical site a couple years back. before it was closed. so that's where i think i read it. i dunno where else it was stated though. but i DO recall that's where i read it 1st. i can't recall if she said anything about a 3rd film. i wish Dan Curtis would have done one. but
oh well i guess. he he. & thanx you both for the info. i'm going to TRY & sleep some more. it's one of those days where you keep waking up every couple of hrs. don't you HATE THAT?
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That's fascinating if DN had a cameo in hoDS. In everything that I have read about the movie, I had never heard that. I wonder who she would have played--perhaps someone at the costume party?
I read in an old issue of Castle of Frankenstein I picked up a month or two ago that Bob Cobert had a cameo in that scene (costume party), but I failed to spot him the last time I watched the movie.
G.
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I think Denise Nickerson did have a cameo in HODS that was cut. If I remember correctly, she alluded to that in an interview on a PA talk radio special called Collinsport Revisited. I can check that when I get home, but I'm fairly certain that's what she said.
While a guest at the Collins Association party in 1998, Denise told guests that Curtis was upset with her for leaving the show and as a result, her appearance in the costume party scene in HoDS was cut, which led to much discussion by fans back then, because not only is there not a single bit of evidence to corroborate her story, but at the same Q&A she also contradicted what she had stated elsewhere about her reason for leaving the series in the first place. Wow, that was a long sentence. But anyway, I choose to take what she said that day with a grain of salt.
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I read in an old issue of Castle of Frankenstein I picked up a month or two ago that Bob Cobert had a cameo in that scene (costume party), but I failed to spot him the last time I watched the movie.
I wonder if they confused Cobert with Bob Costello.
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Hey B.Collins- no need to apologize- trying to decode the messy IMDB boards is as confusing as it gets. Any comments from Darren-24 are mine, so you can depend on those...
Cobert did coroborate the story that he had a cameo in the party sequence in HODS, where he was playing the piano, as I recall, which was cut. There's lots of stills from material cut from that sequence- it's probably about 1/3 as long as it was supposed to be, with much more character interaction, and story points elaborated on, etc. I've seen several pix of David in period costume from the scene and lots of coverage of other little trimmed bits, but no image of Cobert or DN.
An alternate universe where a fully expanded HODS and restored NODS existed would be a glorious place indeed.
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An alternate universe where a fully expanded HODS and restored NODS existed would be a glorious place indeed.
Extremely glorious! [ghost_wink] Particularly an alternate universe where Julia's walk with Barnabas (hoDS Scene #186) and Quentin and Alex' discovery of Charles' skeleton and Angelique's actual coffin (NoDS Scene #229) still exists because that footage has apparently been destroyed in this universe. [sad3]
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Extremely glorious! [ghost_wink] Particularly an alternate universe where Julia's walk with Barnabas (hoDS Scene #186) and Quentin and Alex' discovery of Charles' skeleton and Angelique's actual coffin (NoDS Scene #229) still exists because that footage has apparently been destroyed in this universe. [sad3]
Ugh, don't get me started. I can still remember the crestfallen feeling when I was rolling through the long version all those years ago and saw it dissolve right from the basement to the seance.... Talk about mixed feelings. Massive disappointment about scene 229, but wow, seance!
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but wow, seance!
Thank heavens that still exists - and what glorious footage it is! I can never see it often enough. [62b2]
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Cobert did coroborate the story that he had a cameo in the party sequence in HODS, where he was playing the piano, as I recall, which was cut. There's lots of stills from material cut from that sequence- it's probably about 1/3 as long as it was supposed to be, with much more character interaction, and story points elaborated on, etc. I've seen several pix of David in period costume from the scene and lots of coverage of other little trimmed bits, but no image of Cobert or DN.
Thanks, Darren. Oh the pain!
LOVE that seance too.
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thank you for your kind words Darren. i'm Stimpy25 on that site if ya ever see me on it. anyways, i apologized cause i didn't want to appear like i knew everything cause i admit freely, that i don't. i'm sure you've had to deal with people who think they DO know everything. who hasn't? he he. ya know? anyways, i think i recall DN saying it was during the party Sequence.
it's kinda funny how we can't trust 100% somone who did the show! & sad at the same time. cause she doesn't seem to appear to me anyways like she thinks knows everything either. i wish i could have met Dan Curtis to ask him about it. oh well i guess.
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Hi Midnite, I can't resist noting that Bob Costello couldn't have appeared in hoDS because at that point in the scheme of things, he was living in Beautiful Downtown Ottawa acting as producer for one of my favorite series, Strange Paradise!
I don't recall at all Denise Nickerson ever giving a reason why she left the series. I think I was at that Collins Assn. party too, because I remember standing with Denise just outside the building talking to her about Grayson, who she remembered as very professional, courteous, and always being on top of her lines which she indicated wasn't always the case with other cast members.
Then again I don't remember her story about being the movie either, so I must have missed her presentation at the event.
G.
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But I spied Bob Costello at the costume party.
Seeing HoDS again on the big screen along with having the advantages of both sitting up front and next to Guy Haines (who pointed it out) allowed me to see a goof-- a crewmember reflected in a glass pane that I'd never noticed before.
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Well, that's very interesting that Costello did appear in the film. I had always wondered whether his departure from DS was an amicable one or not. DC did not, to say the least, have a good track record when it came to amicable departures.
I thought Costello was in Ottawa pretty much full time from around October of 1969 through July of 1970 but evidently he made trips back to NYC...
G.
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I don't recall at all Denise Nickerson ever giving a reason why she left the series.
In an article in the DS Almanac (Millennium), she wrote that she had to leave DS to head to Germany for the filming of Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory. At Lyndhurst, she said she left the show to make The Neon Ceiling. I don't know which was accurate and I know memories aren't always perfect, but did her story change from 1998 to 2000?
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the mystery continues. well i don't know about the other film but Willy Wonka was film at some point in (1970) & her part was pretty big. other than "Dark Shadows" making her a star did doing films ever do that for her? to be honest i've only ever see her in 'Willy Wonka" so that's why i ask. i'd love to see her other work to be honest. & when i 1st saw her on "DS"
it took me a LONG TIME to get used to the idea really cause i have Littery seen "Willy Wonka" at least almost a thousand times i'm guessing. or close to it. he he. i don't know the number. so seeing her in something else before that film was made or released took me some getting used to. & really the only films i've seen with any cast member Of "DS" is a few with "Joan Bennet" who hasn't? 'David Selby" i think a bit with "Kate Jackson" & that's all i can think of for now. oh & a couple with "Lara Parker" in short there hasn't been many films i've seen with actors from DS.
anyways you beat me to the punch. i was just going to ask why she left the show? one actor that i wish did the show even for a short time like "Abe Vigoda" did who looks EXACTLY the same as he did back than. he he. is "Christopher Lee" or "Vincent Price" one question though, i've seen places online that say "Harvey Keitel" did the show as an extra at the blue Whale" i've seen the entire show a few time completly through & looked for him too. i just can't see him. "IMBD" i think lists him doing 2 or 3 in episods #35 or something like that, did he in fact do the show?
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Thanks for answering my "Night of Dark Shadows" question, Darren (about why it wasn't in widescreen at the festival). I realize that the answers to many of my questions are probably to be found in the "Dark Shadows Movie Book" and have likely been addressed many times on this forum; fortunately, I have located my copy of the movie book now.* [ghost_grin]
HODS was certainly effective on the big screen at the Vista Theater ... but reading about those deleted scenes and scenes that were never shot shows how much better the movie could have been. To take just one example - the scene where Barnabas and Julia begin to develop a relationship, which was never shot. That would have gone a long way to the jarring moment when Stokes announces to Julia "you're in love with him." So many things needed to be established or fleshed out that weren't.
A longer costume scene (and some mention of it beforehand, unless I missed it), would have been welcome. I do think children would have been out of place at an adult cocktail/costume event, and it would have looked odd to see Denise Nickerson there. But I guess if David was originally intended to be present, in costume, then I suppose he could have had a friend of his own age as a guest; so who knows - maybe Ms. Nickerson was planned for the scene.
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* If I remember correctly, lost footage for NODS was found after the publication of the "Dark Shadows Movie Book."
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To take just one example - the scene where Barnabas and Julia begin to develop a relationship, which was never shot. That would have gone a long way to the jarring moment when Stokes announces to Julia "you're in love with him."
Do you mean the scene I referenced back in reply #61 - the scene in which Julia and Barnabas take a walk? If so, that was shot. In fact, there are many photos of it - one even in the DS Movie Book. [ghost_smiley]
So many things needed to be established or fleshed out that weren't.
So many things weren't fleshed out because DC didn't want them to be fleshed out. Blood, gore, mayhem and death was quite obviously his philosophy over character development. [ghost_rolleyes]
If I remember correctly, lost footage for NODS was found after the publication of the "Dark Shadows Movie Book."
[ghost_nowink] It was actually found before.
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Regarding Denise Nickerson in films. I happened to catch her in a movie with Darren McGavin (saw the last half hour or so of it). She must have been in her late teens/early twenties..she was quite a decent actress back then. Because of her acting skills, physical features, etc., I think she would make an excellent Lisbeth Salander if she were about 30 years younger. Hopefully Hollywood will choose someone with the right skills and physical appearance to play that role..but it things run true to form, they will pick someone for their beauty. They've signed Daniel Craig for the role of Blomqvist..which is a good start. I too had heard the rumors about DN being in a 3rd DS movie. When I think of what might have been, I get quite sad..but, if we can get NODS restored... [ghost_smiley]
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If I remember correctly, lost footage for NODS was found after the publication of the "Dark Shadows Movie Book."
[ghost_nowink] It was actually found before.
Actually it was found afterwards... working on the movie book lead me to propose going all out and looking into the missing footage with some serious effort...
;)
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Actually it was found afterwards... working on the movie book lead me to propose going all out and looking into the missing footage with some serious effort...
;)
Really? [ghost_embarrassed] Well, you should definitely be the one to know - but I could have honestly sworn you found it before the book came out in 1998... But now that I think about it, Sci-Fi did the video transfer for you back when they were working on the ill-fated (and ill-conceived) Sciography program - and that was back in 2000. And then the first time any of the recovered footage was shown at a Fest was in 2001, right?
Things like this wouldn't happen if I could still easily access my saved '90s e-mails from back then. But I haven't had Eudora on my PC in years and years. [ghost_wink]
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i think you correct. cause if you look at K. Lee's Scott's Book her 35th anniversery of the show. & sorry about the spelling. that book came out in (2001) "Dark Shadows Memories" i think it's called? sorry if it's wrong i' m just to lazy to look for it. he he. anyways, in it if ya look are pics taken by someone for the (2001) premire i believe cause i think "Louis Edmonds"
i believe are in them, i may be mistaken but i think he went & saw it before he unfortnually passed away. now i may be wrong on him being there but please let me know.
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Yup, very certain- Movie book was 98, footage was found in 99, which lead to the Almanac article...
or in Old Testament terms:
Video Watchdog article begat DS Movie Book
DS Movie book begat footage recovery
Footage recovery begat DS Almanac Millennium Edition
and so on... ;-)
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which lead to the Almanac article...
OMG yes- the Millennium Edition NoDS article - DUH! [6184] How quickly I forget!! (http://www.dsboards.com/SMF/Smileys/classic/embarrassed.gif) (And why has no one else brought that up?) But in my mind at the time I replied to Phillipe I was thinking the summer of '98, not '99 - and that's mostly because I was thinking of something that happened between the time of the Video Watchdog article and the Movie Book (but I won't go into what that was because, well, I would no longer be so mysterious if I went into that publicly (http://www.dsboards.com/SMF/Smileys/classic/wink.gif)). But trust me, I won't get the chronology of events mixed up ever again! (http://www.dsboards.com/SMF/Smileys/classic/cheesy.gif)
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I currently own dvd-r copies for NODS and HODS, hope there's release to conicide with Tim Burton's upcoming film.
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I wonder whether any Cousins out there remember Crowhaven Farm (1970), an ABC Movie of the Week starring Hope Lange, Paul Burke (from Valley of the Dolls), Cyril Delevanti (Night of the Iguana), Patricia Barry (also appeared in Boris Karloff's Thriller I believe) and the fabulous Virginia Gregg (brililiant in "Mr. George" from Thriller and also played the voice of Norman's Mother in Psycho!). Thanks to the kindness of a friend who owns a VHS of the movie from an airing on some channel called "Plex" I got to see Crowhaven Farm again recently. The style and presentation of the flashbacks of the Hope Lange character's past life in 17th century Brampton, Mass. strongly reminded me of Quentin's flashback experiences in NoDS. I spotted a couple of other things that DC seems to have copied in Burnt Offerings a few years later.
It did make me wonder whether Sam and DC were watching closely when this movie aired in 1970... particularly given how fast they had to pull a fresh screenplay together when Frid turned down doing the DS feature film sequel late in '70 or early in '71 (I would guess that this came down when he walked off the set late in '70).
G.
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I remember really liking Crowhaven Farm when it originally aired and also several years later when I saw it in syndication. But it's been so long since I've seen it that I don't honestly remember any similarities between it and NoDS.
As for DC "borrowing" from other films, well, does a vampire drink blood? [hall2_wink] Though, of course, we have no way of really knowing if he "borrowed" from Crowhaven Farm...
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Wow, I was so excited to see that there were new posts in the HODS/NODS DVD Release thread, and I saw a couple of posts that are not at all related to that topic. Why are they here?
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Many topics deviate somewhat from their stated titles, and so long as the new discussion relates in some way to the originally stated topic (as almost anything having to do with hoDS or Nods would here) we let the discussion slide. Well, unless it takes on a life of it's own (meaning going on for several posts), then we generally split it off into its own topic. But only two posts doesn't warrant that sort of split. [hall2_smiley]
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But usually threads deviate through some kind of natural process (i.e. in a post that's on-topic, the poster will say something that relates to something else, then a subsequent poster picks up on that off-topic comment). In this case, it was just a sudden post that wasn't replying to anything else, and entirely off-topic. Maybe they were just unsure about how to start a new thread?
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In this case, it was just a sudden post that wasn't replying to anything else, and entirely off-topic.
But it wasn't. The post made a comparison to NoDS, which as MB explained, relates it in some way to the main topic.
Maybe they were just unsure about how to start a new thread?
That stat can be viewed through a member's profile. Gothick started 230 topics.
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I have Seen "Crowhaven Farm" i downloaded it a couple years ago cause it's just such a RARE film. or so i hear. i did it for really one reason & one reason only 'John Carradine" i'm a HUGE fan of his. & to be honest that's a guy who SHOULD have done a few episodes of "DS" or any of the films for that matter.
he would have been perfect! at the time i was watching the film i didn't really think about the differences but NOW that you mention it. you guys & gals are right it is Similar to the "DS" film. the film itself i thought was well acted & well made. i just didn't like the ending of it. that's all. i think the film itself dragged a bit though. but what's even more Surprising is it's an "A. Spelling" film! now i'm NOT
a HUGE fan of his. like many people are. but there are some shows of his i enjoy & grew up on. so it is nice that he also dabbled in the horror genre. it's also hard to believe that tv movies back than took chances & were actually scary! the horror ones i mean. some of them were anyways. i wasn't born until (1978) so i wasn't around to see them 1st hand. but the storyline of DS the show anyways
where the pirates tear Colilnwood apart was actually pretty scary. i think a few years ago it even gave me nightmare. odd uh? i was watching it late at nite i think with the lights off so bear wtih me. anyways. as for the films of DS. i'm guessing if the DS film comes out in 2 years than that's my guess the dvd will come out. at least by what they say anyways
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'Crowhaven Farm' is an enjoyable little chiller. Someone sent me a copy several months ago. I miss spooky TV movies like this one. I can see similarities to the NoDS flashback scenes, at least in terms of the dream-like style employed in shooting the flashback scenes.
Does anyone know what the plot of the second DS film would have been if Jonathan Frid had agreed to it?
~Penny~
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No one seems to know - not even the man who came up with the script. When asked in an interview what the plot was, Sam Hall said that he couldn't remember anything about it. And if the plot was actually such that he couldn't even remember it, perhaps it's a blessing that it was never made...
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Ah, I suppose it's lost to the ages then.
~Penny~
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I began wondering today if the announced April start for the Depp/DS film will in any way start to get the hoDS/NoDS DVD release moving? But probably not. Considering how stubborn WB is about not moving forward until the film is getting made, nothing concrete will probably start to happen until April - or even after. [hall2_rolleyes]
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i agree, i don't think it'll be on dvd/ or blue-ray until the film is released. than my guess they will reissue the dvd of the original series. my guess also is they will maybe do spurts or something of the show that may continue until & even after for awhle at least the film gets released on dvd & blue-ray. i'm just guessing of course.
i have no way of knowing or any proof this is what's going to go down.
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I think it depend if the new movie will be released in 2011 or in 2012. I don't see why WB can't release DS in late 2011. Pirates 4 is still filming as we speak and it has a May 2011 release date. I can't wait for the fully restored DS movies release on DVD. We have been waiting a very long time haven't we?
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With filming to finally begin next april, I'm guessin Burton will opt for a 2012 release.
Wonder if he will have some of the original cast make cameo appearances in this version?
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No one seems to know - not even the man who came up with the script. When asked in an interview what the plot was, Sam Hall said that he couldn't remember anything about it. And if the plot was actually such that he couldn't even remember it, perhaps it's a blessing that it was never made...
Howdy! Actually, I may be able to put this urban myth to rest for good... I've discussed this with both Sam Hall and Dan Curtis previously and there was never any script nor an outline written for a proposed Barnabas-centered sequel film. When I asked Hall about it, he couldn't recall how much thought they'd given it, and his only impression was that Curtis wanted to make sure there was a role for Kate Jackson in it, because he was impressed by her. Curtis said that they put in the bat gag at the end credits, but never had thought beyond it. As he described it, MGM called him, delighted with how HODS was doing at the boxoffice and said they wanted another one. He went and had a lunch or dinner with Frid to tell him about it, and Frid said he wouldn't do it. That lunch is where the oft quoted exchange below is supposed to have happened:
Frid, "Friends have all warned me about continuing to play Barnabas-- I'm concerned for my image."
Curtis, "What about the image of an out-of-work actor? How about that image?"
I pushed on the point again with Curtis, "Not a rough outline, a treatment, nothing?"
Curtis, "No! We never got there. MGM said they wanted another one. I asked Frid. He refused. That was it. Period."
There have been rumors about this for years, but I think it's just a game of telephone, a rumor or comment stated by people back in the day, that has bounced around ever since.
Oh, I wish there had been though!
There is a story breakdown/treatment for NODS with some solid differences, but nothing with old Barny.
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That's interesting. And I certainly don't discount that's what Dan Curtis said. But back in the '80s, when Sam Hall was interviewed on the subject, according to a published transcript the exchange went like this:
"Q: Did you ever give thought to what the Jonathan Frid sequel film would deal with?
A: We had the whole plot worked out for Jonathan when he said he wouldn't do it. I don't think he ever read it."
And that conflicts with DC's version. Though I can't say that surprises me all that much because through the years DC had often gotten his facts wrong. And one need not simply look to his latter years for evidence of that because even while the original DS was still on the air there were interviews where DC got his facts wrong. The most infamous was probably the one in which DC was certain that Sam Hall had begun writing for DS before Grayson Hall began working on the show and that it was through Sam's association with the show that Grayson got the job as Julia. However, we all know that Grayson began working on DS in June of '67 and Sam didn't begin writing for DS until November 0f '67 - and it was actually Grayson and Sam's socializing with DC after she'd begun working on the show that got Sam the job. [hall2_smiley]
As far as discussing the matter with Sam Hall goes, I wouldn't doubt that his memory of things might be a bit faulty nowadays. That happens to nearly everyone at his age. But I'm more inclined to believe the things he said back in the '80s when there wasn't as much of a time distance and things could have been much more clear in his mind.
Though, honestly, who knows what the truth really is. I seriously doubt we'll ever really know...
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well said man well said. seriously "DC" got his facts wrong THAT MUCH? it's kinda funny in a way. cause you'd expect
a guy like him would be memory perfect. ya know? i mean hell if you look at one of my favorite directors/writers/ producers
"Roger Corman" who just turned 84 this year. the same age as Frid i believe. his memory is perfect still at 84. & Frid's i think is pretty good still as well. how old is Sam Hall now anyways?
man i wish that Frid had done the sequel. i understand he didn't want his image to be just of Barnabas of course. i can't say that i blame him to be honest. as i've said in the past if you look at "Christopher Lee"if he or his son-in-law or anyone else in his family i'm sure says he's only well known as Dracula they get REAL PISSED! & have banned members
from their site cause on how some people atitudes are. or somethings like that. & i can't say that i blame them either.
cause i wouldn't want to be well known for just one role either. it does break my heart that Frid quit acting well in movies anyways. i think at some point he would have been better known for other roles as well. outside of Horror.
cause "DC" did at some point quit doing horror movies & went to Drama films. & i'm pretty sure he would have Cast Frid in a heartbeat in any of them had he still been acting in films by than. but this is just one guy's opinion. ya know?
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I would be surprised if at the very least Sam had not done a story/treatment for "hoDS 2" figuring from his experience with DC that at some point DC would turn to him and say, "OK, can you get the script to me for the new movie by the end of the week?"--and if he had some ideas, he'd want it covered. As a sometime writer myself, I know that's what I would have done in his shoes.
So, we inch closer to seeing WB finally giving the green light for the feature film disc release. The main good thing about having the release tied to the big Depp/Burton project is that it means that the suits will want it as a real release, not something they just casually toss out to online consumers in their "archival" project for which they would be unlikely to have much, if any of a real budget line.
I'm afraid a lot of the fans here don't understand that even when Burton has delivered the completed movie with its post-production, there could be a SUBSTANTIAL wait before the studio shoehorns it into one of the hot release weekends on their calendar. As I've mentioned before, I well recall how Firefly fans had to wait six months for the release of the feature film version when the studio decided that the release date that had been announced for months would conflict with some other megabomb release date.
The military industrial entertainment complex of the 21st century is often tiresome terrain to navigate... one of the many reasons why I don't miss television.
G.
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even when Burton has delivered the completed movie with its post-production, there could be a SUBSTANTIAL wait before the studio shoehorns it into one of the hot release weekends on their calendar.
This is very true. If, say, WB sees the film as an October, November or even December release (the three months when most studios release their big dramatic guns), and if the film is not completed in time for WB to find what they deem a suitable week in October-December 2011 where they don't already have a movie (or movies) in play and there isn't a film (or there aren't films) they fear might be major competition for the Depp/DS film, they could easily hold off releasing it in 2011. And if they really have their heart set on an October, November or December release, then its release could easily be held off until sometime in October-December 2012 even though it was completed the year before. Studios do such things all the time.
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i know & it's just plain damn stupid if ya ask me. why wait a total year after a film is done? Tim Burton doesn't have that many flops in his resume. & even those films that did flop made some good money as well. at least i think they did.
studio's are to damn picky today. just cause a film doesn't hit say $50 million bucks on the opening day or weekend they consider it a flop. ok maybe not that much money but you get my point. tv studios do it now to. most of the time.
take the show "Lone Star" for example. it's a new show that started this season. i didn't happen to watch it so bear with me i can't comment on it if it was any good or not? but they only aired 2 episodes THAN freaking cancelled it! how in the world is a tv show going to be a hit or gain an audience if they don't air at least 13 episodes? or almost up that
at the very least. they need to understand that there are a LOT of programs on tv. & people do go out & have a life. so they don't always catch this or that program. same thing with movies. i don't go to the movies that often.
but i do once in awhile download one. or buy it on blue-ray or dvd when it comes out. & it's not cause i refuse to see this or that film in the theatre. its' really cause i don't get out much. that's all. in short in tv & in the movie buisiness these morons need to just loosen up a little & not have such HIGH standards for their films. there's nothing wrong in
having faith in the product by any means. but they go way overboard. ya know what i mean? & i also agree on the release on the "DS" film on dvd & maybe even "Blue-Ray" from what i hear, if you download say the film
"The House of the long Shadows" from say "Amazon" the picture quality & everything else is from what i hear freaking HORRIBLE! they spend NO money whatsoever putting films out that way. it's a good idea to release not so well known titles to sites like "Amazon" but not remastering it at the very least is just plain stupid. & bad business. but than what do know i don't know anything about business anyways. he he
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I would be surprised if at the very least Sam had not done a story/treatment for "hoDS 2" figuring from his experience with DC that at some point DC would turn to him and say, "OK, can you get the script to me for the new movie by the end of the week?"--and if he had some ideas, he'd want it covered. As a sometime writer myself, I know that's what I would have done in his shoes.
Interesting. If so, that's smart thinking, but I'm surprised with the TV show workload that he had the time. If it was a story or treatment that would make sense though, as it could have been anything from a 3 page to 25 page document...
If Sam said it in the 80s that sounds more verifiable to me, especially if he was doing it on his own without Dan telling him, it would gel with Dan's story. Whether it actually would have been what they ended up filming will have to remain a mystery for the ages or parallel time.
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i know & it's just plain damn stupid if ya ask me. why wait a total year after a film is done?
It might seem stupid to hold off on releasing a film - especially to the people who are highly anticipating seeing it. But from the studio's POV it's considered good marketing. Studios don't simply want their films to make money, they want them to make the most money possible - and more often than not that has to do with what a film's competition is at the box office at the time of it's release. And also, if they feel they have a prestige film that has the potential for Oscar nominations, more often than not the film will be held for the end of the year because quite frequently (and despite the ability of Academy members to screen films at home) many Academy members have the habit of overlooking films that came out earlier in the year - not to mention the buzz on those films has probably died down, while the buzz on current releases is still taking place.
Of course, normally the Academy looks down their nose at vampire/horror films in general, particularly when it comes to acting nominations. But if any vampire role could bring an acting nomination if done correctly, Barnabas must surely be one of them because he's so deeply complex.
And getting back to the competition aspect of release, let's not forget that the first installment of Twilight: Breaking Dawn is to be released on November 18, 2011. So, it really is quite likely that WB won't want the Depp/DS film anywhere near the box office while it's in release. And who knows if the Depp/DS film could even be completed with enough time to be released and be released with sufficient enough distance between it and T:BD P1's release? And to complicate matters further, the second installment of T:BD is scheduled to come out on November 16, 2012, so the release of the Depp/DS will surely be sufficiently earlier in 2012 so as to not compete directly with it.
Actually, one need look no further for a perfect example of a studio holding off on releasing films than the T:BD films because BD is in production right now, yet even the first installment won't be released until over a year from now...
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one it's going to take QUITE a long time for them to film it. so i can understand why breaking dawn won't come out until november of next year. though i do find it pretty stupid that they wait another FULL year to release the 2nd half of it.
hell even "harry Potter" which took damn near an entire year & actually i think it was 14 months? to film the last film in the series. that's coming out on the 19th & the 2nd half comes out in July of next year i believe. so that is at least reasonable. & makes sense ya know? they aren't waiting a year for it. so i'm happy about that.
when it comes to releasing movies i don't think there really is a good time a year to do it. BIG movies i mean. cause if you think about it's a win or lose situation either way. you may release a film with lesser films. or rather films that aren't really expected to DO BIG MONEY! & you could get stuck with a flop cause those films do better. so in short there's really never a good time to do that. though i DO think Disney screwed uP on the last "Narnia" film when they put it out 2 years
ago. on when they released it. with all the reboots coming out that May at the same time. yet they wonder why it did't make money like the 1st one did hmm...??
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If Sam said it in the 80s that sounds more verifiable to me
The one thing that makes me believe Curtis' version over Hall's is that Hall responds to "what would the plot have been for a HODS2?" with the reason they didn't do it, but never actually answers the question in that exchange.
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the only thing i could think of is a big screen version of the 1795 storyline. Which acutally would have been a great companion piece to HODS.
I would loved to have seen the 1897 storyline as a movie. shame it was never done and it wasn't done for the revival series.
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the only thing i could think of is a big screen version of the 1795 storyline. Which acutally would have been a great companion piece to HODS.
I've also assumed the Barnabas sequel would have been a flashback to when he became a vampire - though, of course, we know how dangerous it is to assume. [snow_wink]
Also, I've often wondered if the Barnabas backstory was somewhat different for the film than it was for the daytime show. When Barnabas explains a bit of it to Willie, he says, "but when they put this curse upon me..." That could have simply been Frid putting the dialogue into his own words because, as scripted, it should have been, "but when this curse was put upon me..." But at times dialogue in both films was actually changed just prior to shooting. And if that was the case there, it is interesting to wonder who the "they" were.
I would loved to have seen the 1897 storyline as a movie. shame it was never done and it wasn't done for the revival series.
The '91 Series had planned it for its second season. To get into that here would be way OT, but there are probably at least a couple topics on the forum that get into what the plans were had the show continued...
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I don't want to be guilty of taking us too far afield OT, but Adrian Paul said that Curtis had mentioned he wanted him to be Quentin. Joanna Going confirmed this in the interview I conducted with her for the '91 Concordance.
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Posted Monday on Warner Archive's Facebook page:
Question ...are you gonna release the Dark Shadows films on DVD?
Warner Archive Collection Both Dark Shadows movies were being readied for release as far back as 2006....but we've been holding back the releases in order to coincide with the new DARK SHADOWS movie, which was in development for YEARS! The wait will have been worth it, as this will now allow Barnabas to be Blu.... :) :)
Q ...Can you guys go into any more details about these releases?
Warner Archive Collection Nothing more to report for the moment!
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Fantastic news that the movies will be out on Blu-ray! [hello] Though it's sort of deceptive for them to say that they've been being readied for release since '06. Sure, the surviving NoDS actors recorded their missing dialogue, and the piano scene was shown with dialogue at a Fest. But from what Darren has posted here and elsewhere, it wouldn't seem that anything has been done with the color timing of the recovered NoDS print. Also, there's still the matter of finding someone to loop Carlotta's missing dialogue. And, as I'd mentioned the other day in the Depp/DS topic, as of a couple weeks ago Darren had yet to hear anything from WB about when he can move forward beyond the few things that have been done to get the movies ready to be transferred to DVD (and now also Blu-ray)...
But still, it is great to see WB talking about the movies again.
And, of course, thanks for sharing the Facebook posting, Midnite. [snow_smiley]
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To be fair, they did say that the films were "being prepared in 2006" not that they were completely finished in 2006...
I have yet to hear a word from the WB yet. Since we're more than a year out probably from release, that's not an issue, but completing the NODS work will take several months, and the more time we have, the better it will be.
Carlotta needs to be done, and more Kate Jackson looping is needed. Plus all take editing, sync, foley, music spotting, sound mixing, transfer or scanning of the long version elements, dirt removal, etc. Much to do.
The piano scene was just a demo to have something to show at the fest. I'd tackle that from scratch going forward...
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Well, now that we know the release date for the Depp/DS film, it gives this project less than a year to be completed if the release of the films on DVD is going to coincide with the release of the Depp/DS film in theaters. Hopefully that's enough time. Fingers crossed...
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If a street date of May 2012 was being targeted, then all of the finished video and audio materials (the deliverables, as it were) would need to be completed by February. We need 4 months at the minimum to turn this around, so the ball better start rolling by October. Nothing has progressed in a while we're still waiting for the go-ahead...
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Thanks so much for the update. [ghost_smiley] And those execs at Warner Bros. had better get their acts together... [ghost_huh]
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Agh, I've been curious about this, and sorry to hear there hasn't been any progress on this yet. I'm hoping that now that the film production is in full swing that this will now get moving, too. I wish you all the best, Darren!
Cathy
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The best news of the entire Hermes panel at Comic Con 2011:
That the restoration of NoDS will indeed move forward. [cheer] [banana] [clap2] [blob6] [headbang] [blob3] [clap] [banana2] [cheerleader]
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Excellent! I would love to see the formal announcement from WB, if available. The last news about this was a casual statement in a chat that "Barnabas will now be blu" which I think was just some tired suit having fun at the expense of fans...
G.
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I'm thinking it was something Pierson said on the panel. But I'm sure more news will come out about it before too long.
According to what I've read about what was said, as expected, the release of the DVDs/Blu-rays will coincide with the release of the Depp/DS film.
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A tweet from someone we may know. [ghost_wink]
darrenlgross
NIGHT OF DARK SHADOWS restoration will be underway shortly for DVD and Blu-Ray release to coincide with the Depp DS film. Huzzah!
1 hour ago
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Still hoping to see an official announcement, in print, from the WB DVD office, giving release dates for the DS feature film discs. I really don't want to be told that the original films are going to have to wait for some sort of mega-box release with the 2012 Depp thing.
Warners most likely will not make any announcement about the Blu-ray and DVDs until about 3-4 months before street date.
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Darren - Getting news from you is offical enough for me. We all know how this is a labor of love for you. You care more about this being done right than anyone at WB. Thank you for all your work on it.
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Those are very kind words, and very nice to hear.
Thank you!
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darrenlgross
is hoping to find a music log sheet that identifies the library music used for the House of DS and Night of Dark Shadows trailers.
34 minutes ago
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darrenlgross
thought perhaps the House of/Night of Dark Shadows trailer music may have been an from an orchestral adaptation of Bach's Tocatta but nope!
1 hour ago
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A DS fan after my own heart:
camposova Nicole Campos
Took years but finally watched 'Night of Dark Shadows'. Put me in the "It's better than 'House Of..'" column.That shit's genuinely creepy.
28 Aug
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This article reports that the releases may be in 2013. Don't know how reliable the writer's information is.
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Dark-Shadows-The-Complete-Original-Series/16451
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Interesting - particularly considering that just the other day this week ShadowGram reiterated that the release was expected to be this year. But then SG reports what's been confirmed to them by a certain someone. And if the change is true, and if the certain someone hasn't informed them of the change, they wouldn't be expected to report it.
I suppose, like everything lately, time will tell...
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I just read this... Interesting indeed.
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i think it'd be stupid NOT to release it this year. i mean they are putting out an A list film that will make A LOT Of money. & it would be smart to release it either when the film comes out in May. or later this year when it hits dvd/ Blu-Ray. i still am curious if they will go on just dvd though,
it didn't say.
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It's been reported in several other places that the films will be released on DVD and Blu-ray. [snow_smiley]
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With the New Dark Shadows fim release date getting close. There still is no release news of House and Night.Should we be better of expecting it when the New Film Hits Blu and Dvd, or the movie release date? Thankyou
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These will not be coming out until several months after the new film is released on Blu-ray and DVD, so sometime in 2013.
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That really sucks. So I'm guessing that if the new movie doesn't do well enough we may not get a release of the classic films on DVD.
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UGH.
G.
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The delay until 2013 isn't really a surprise because tvshowsondvd.com reported that back in January:
This article reports that the releases may be in 2013.
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This is bad news. We were led to believe that when the depp film was released that House and Night would follow. Now, its AFTER the blu and dvd release of the Depp film. That stinks. Than MPI expects everyone to rush out and buy the series in a box set. Forget this crap. This is the biggest bunch of nonsence that I have heard of. No one regarding Dark Shadows gets my money ever again.For years, I have brought vhs tapes dvd, books and stuff, no more. Its over.I am disgusted with all the antics that go on.
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For the record, the decision is not mine, nor do I believe it's the home video department's, who I'm certain feels they'd get a bigger sales bump if these were out during the new film's release.
Because of the unique take on DS that the trailer description out there and stills seem to convey, someone in the studio or the production team does not want brand confusion. They're probably thinking of the long game here- turning this new film into a franchise series, apart from the works that came before, with the hopes that it could ultimately generate a half billion or more dollars like the Pirates series. In the face of that, several hundred thousand dollars of sales generated by the movie releases on video probably seems like chump change in comparison.
For reasons I cannot go into right now, this may all be for the best. There are things I'm working on right now in preparation for this project that are taking up a great deal of time and will need a couple of more months to play out...until I'm satisfied we can proceed in the best possible manner for the most polished possible result. Hopefully this will all turn out to be a remarkable case of fate intervening in the timing, and hosannas will be sung this time next year.
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There are things I'm working on right now in preparation for this project that are taking up a great deal of time and will need a couple of more months to play out...until I'm satisfied we can proceed in the best possible manner for the most polished possible result. Hopefully this will all turn out to be a remarkable case of fate intervening in the timing, and hosannas will be sung this time next year.
Sounds good to me. If the delay means we'll be getting a more polished/interesting release in 2013 than we would if it came out earlier, I'm more than willing to wait. After all, what's a few more months when we've been waiting for over 10 years. [snow_wink]
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I agree. Although it is very frustrating, if the delay brings us a more superior release then it will definitely be worth the wait. Best of luck Darren and thanks for the update.
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Thanks, Darren -- I appreciate all the years of hard work you've poured into these projects!
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Thanks for the updates, Darren! While it means a longer wait, I'm kind of accustomed to waiting longer than I'd like to for various entertainment releases, and if it makes the final result better it's all for the best!
Cathy
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Thanks for the news, Darren, and for the hints that the delay may help you to deliver a superior product. After all the YEARS of your own time you have put into this project, you deserve to be allowed to get it right. I appreciate the fact that the films are in the hands of such a knowledgeable fan as yourself.
In the old days, whenever a remake came along, it meant that the original or previous iterations of a story were buried in the deepest, darkest vault known to humankind and sometimes lost for a time altogether. This happened with both the 1932 Old Dark House and the 1935 She, I believe, in the Sixties.
G.
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Ok Darren,if you feel that we can have a better Blu Ray and DVD of the restored version of Night, and also House, I will step back from my anger and frustration at this and wait a little longer.I really don't have much choice anyway. However, since I have a great love and affection for the original DS, and also the 91 series, I will have to calm down and relax. Forgive me for being so blunt about this. But, we are waiting an awful long time for this. Good luck Darren.
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thank you "Darren" for an update. since you are going to be working on it, to make it a better product i think i can wait a little longer as well.
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The two questions/comments in the previous post about other topics have been moved to those topics. And though we certainly more than accept your apology, B.Collins, in the future we beg members to please try extremely hard to post in the correct topic. [beg] Dividing individual posts and sending parts off to other topics is a pain in the you know where for us to do because, unlike being able to split entire posts out of topics and merging them with other topics, dividing posts isn't a feature that's built into the system for us so it's something we have to do on the fly on our own.
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These will not be coming out until several months after the new film is released on Blu-ray and DVD, so sometime in 2013.
Only thing questionable there is that the new movie will definitely be out on blu and DVD before the end of the year. Big studio movies that came out in May and June of last year were on home video by September and October. Waiting til 2013 to release the new film on video is a big window.
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Because of the unique take on DS that the trailer description out there and stills seem to convey, someone in the studio or the production team does not want brand confusion.
It may be for the best if the original Dark Shadows movies (and the original DS series) are NOT closely associated with the new movie ... they may have little in common other than the basic plotline. Some DS "purists" may want to distance themselves from what is to come . . .
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Something tells me they distanced themselves from the new film a long time ago - probably from the moment they learned about the film because for them all there is and all there ever will be is the original series. And that's certainly their decision to make so long as they don't behave irrationally towards the fans who are open to new and different versions of DS - but sadly that's not always the case. And even when it comes to the original films, there are plenty who vehemently dislike both of them because they're not the original series, so the fact that they're coming to DVD/Blu-Ray wouldn't interest them in the slightest bit, anyway, regardless of the new film...
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In the old days, whenever a remake came along, it meant that the original or previous iterations of a story were buried in the deepest, darkest vault known to humankind and sometimes lost for a time altogether. This happened with both the 1932 Old Dark House and the 1935 She, I believe, in the Sixties.
I believe this also happened with the classic Fredric March 'Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde' when the Spencer Tracy version came out.
Darren, thanks for all you've done and continue to do! I look forward to the eventual release!
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I'm glad both movies will be on Blu-Ray.
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In the old days,
Darren, thanks for all you've done and continue to do! I look forward to the eventual release!
Thanks Penny and B. for the shout-out!
While I can't explain myself fully, if something I'm deep into right now, that began a month and a half ago doesn't yield some more results soon, I may end up at Windcliff.
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Darren, I think we all have a lot of faith in you! We know how hard you have been working on this.
I know I can't wait to see the results, and I am sure those results will be the best they can be!
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Darren, when the films finally see the disc release, I wish those of us who have been following this saga since the days of your classic Video Watchdog review essays could throw a very special party for you. You deserve it!
cheers, Steve
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Thank you...
No champagne corks will be popped until this thing is actually a fait accompli and not just promises...
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Good Luck Darren. I hope that all your hard work on the restoration of NODS will be a great success. I am really looking forward to it, especially on Blu Ray. Take care.
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Adding my thoughts and best wishes, too. I look forward to this, especially NODS. Cheers to Darren!
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Maestro Gross! We're starved for information, man [nerv] !
Throw us a bone, some crumbs from the table, anything [nuts] !
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Your secrets are safe with us [bigok]
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I greatly appreciate all the nice comments and well wishes.
Unfortunately, at this time, I am not at liberty to discuss anything.
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We wish you the best Darren.
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The feeling is mutual!
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We're extremlyy fortunate that the project is in such good hands.
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I thought of starting a separate topic about this, but it doesn't seem significant enough to warrant its own niche. I was listening today to a Youtube post that combines 2 or 3 versions each of the surviving hoDS and NoDS trailers. In the NoDS trailer, it always sounds like Roger Davis doing the v/o to me, but then today I started to wonder. Has anyone else thought that it was Davis on that trailer? Is there any confirmation one way or the other that we know of?
I thought this "cameo" in the NoDS trailer would be a pretty amusing touch if true, given that Davis was an outright star of the first film.
G.
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In the NoDS trailer, it always sounds like Roger Davis doing the v/o to me, but then today I started to wonder. Has anyone else thought that it was Davis on that trailer? Is there any confirmation one way or the other that we know of?
I know exactly where you're coming from... it's the way he says, "that house of dark...shadows" with the pause that probably triggered it. It's not Davis though. After years of poking around, I tracked down the company and editors (the reknowned Chuck Workman and his Calliope Films) that put together the HODS/NODS trailers, and it was one of the voice-over guys they normally used, but not Davis... No luck identifying the music track used in both, but he was fairly confident that it was probably a Bach organ piece, though not Toccata & Fugue in D minor. The HODS trailer was something they were very proud of at the time, and it was up for an advertising award that year. Workman & co went on to do some of the major trailers of the era, including Godfather 2, American Graffiti, Close Encounters..., and this little film called Star Wars...
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How wild because all these years I've thought it was Roger Davis. And that's mostly because there was many reports back in the day that said it was him. But then, we're talking about the same magazines that reported that Denise Nickerson had been cast in Death of Dark Shadows. [ghost_wink]
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Hey MB, I remember that mag, or should I say rag? lol.
Darren, once again I bow to how incredibly far-reaching your research on these films has been. Can't wait to read the new essay in the new PomPress book. That is very cool that the hoDS trailer was up for an award. I wonder which one. I hope it was the one where the ghoulish horror-host-esque narrator says, after Grayson Hall's line "you're not really serious!" ... "Oh, but he IS, Julia," over footage of the unfortunate Dr.'s demise. Just great stuff.
It's wild about that NoDS voiceover. I was listening through headphones and it suddenly struck me (after the MANY times I've played that trailer) that there was something about the timbre of the voice that just didn't quite fit with Davis.
G.
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Thanks Gothick.
Roger Davis's voice is more smooth, soft honey... there's a little bit of sharpness to the NODS narrator's voice.
The editor couldn't remember the HODS narrator's name, but said he was British, and doing a sort of neutral accent, but you can pick up the slight accent. The nominated trailer was the long theatrical trailer, the 2-2.5min one...
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This sounds promising. http://actionaudioandvisual.wordpress.com/2012/06/01/dark-shadows/
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Thanks for the link, jimbo. [ghost_smiley] But I don't know. Where do they get the notion that Frid is in the film? [ghost_rolleyes] And to my knowledge, much of the voiceover work needed to complete the missing sound was done years ago. But who knows...
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I have no idea where they got that notion. This is the first I ever heard of this website. I just happened on this article on a Google search.
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I'm having a hard time believing what I'm reading on that site. Frid in NODS? And as "Barnabus"? And while I wouldn't sayit would never be done, the idea of using Skype to do dialogue looping seems rather unlikely for a project like this; maybe for a commentary track, though. (And I wouldn't call the acting style in NODS "over the top"...)
Color me skeptical.
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Okay, after doing a little bit of Googling for "Skype sound post production", I think I now understand that they're probably using Skype for the communication between the personnel, not as a medium for transmitting sound that's being recorded. Duh... But that bit about Frid is still puzzling. Unless they just threw that in as a hook for people unfamiliar with NODS and only know the vampire aspect of DS?
[Edited to change "Friday" to "Frid"--damn autocorrect on my tablet!!]
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I don't know. To me it certainly looks as if they're saying NoDS stars David Selby, Kate Jackson and Jonathan Frid. And if that is the case, it calls into question the entire existence of that Web page. [ghost_wacko]
But I'm sure that once Darren sees these latest posts, he'll clear up any confusion...
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The confusion of anyone reading that post is certainly understandable!
I was unaware until this moment that Action Audio had a blog... since it shows a post date of yesterday, that explains it...
Action Audio has been the primary Los Angeles (actually Burbank) recording location for the Big Finish audio dramas, as well as Private Island Trax. We've been doing a lot of work lately with them for Big Finish where we've had to record an actor in Burbank, who's acting opposite another actor in Arizona or North Carolina, or NY, or London. There was a three-way one between LA (Amber Benson), North Carolina (Terry Crawford), and London (James Unsworth) recently, that was a bit of a technical challenge, but not one that I directed. Audio is recorded at each professional studio, but the engineer and booth are connected to LA & London, etc. via Skype so that the director can hear the actor and communicate with the actor and the engineer.
We have a lovely relationship with the folks at Action Audio, and my trusty engineer there, James Barth, worked previously at Private Island, and over the years he's been the engineer on most of the looping sessions we've done for NODS, so he knows all about our efforts. We haven't done another looping session in over a year, though, and Kate Jackson was recorded years ago in Los Angeles, not North Carolina...
Action is also where I directed Karlen's part of Night Whispers, with Jim Pierson directing the Barbara Steele part there later, with Frid recorded by a different studio entirely in Canada.
Clearly, my beloved engineer has had DS project overload, and with all the sessions swirling about in his head, created the dada-ist blog post that is referenced above... Or perhaps he had a little too much Claret Cup yesterday afternoon!
I shall endeavor to clarify this for the fine fellow.
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Thanks for clearing everything up, Darren. But I knew you would. [ghost_smiley]
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Is "foley" shorthand for some form of post-sync type sound production?
Thanks for the clarification, Darren! Love your theory about the Claret Cup.
Life staggers onwards, and as the late Kurt Vonnegut used to say... "so it goes."
Steve
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Thanks Darren for the must needed clarification. Greatly appreciated.
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Is "foley" shorthand for some form of post-sync type sound production?
Foley is the recording of footsteps, clothes rustling, etc. and other live sound effects and it's done with a foley artist watching specific scenes over and over, then doing footsteps on a similar surface (tile, wood, grass, gravel, etc.) and matching it to what is happening on-screen. Basically any human-caused sound effect that can be recorded live in the studio, unlike a car crash or explosion.
They have a foley studio & artist they hire out, and they were used for the very rough demo scene we showed a few years back.
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Cool. Thanks for taking the time out to enlighten us!
I associate European horror and genre films of the Sixties, especially the Italian ones, with really fake foley effects. Even as a kid I noticed how the footsteps sounded so artificial in Italian movies that would air on TV.
But somehow it was all part of the charm...
G.
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I should have taken a week to reply... the responses would have been soooo interesting to read... I tend to kill threads dead when I post, with all my cold facts!
Ah, interesting you mention the Italian foley effects... Usually that would be either really bad foley the Italians did themselves... or the US company that bought the film would dub the movie and want to replace the music score, and since the Italian company only provided an audio element that had the music and sound effects combined (an MFX track, it's called, or MuseFX), they would have to toss out everything and do a quickie sound effects & foley recording for the film. Just slapped together on the cheap...
Almost all films have foley, though, from Apocalypse Now to Dark Shadows, from NODS to Star Wars... it's an art...
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Sorry to be the bearer of such awful news, but WB has officially announced a date for the hoDS and NoDS DVD/BD film releases.
The UNRESTORED prints.
The "extras" consist of one theatrical trailer per film.
Words fail me. To Darren, I am so very sorry... what a devastating blow for you. We all know you gave 500 percent and we'll always honor your efforts on behalf of the films we love.
G.
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I just saw that, Gothick, and headed over to this board to see if there was any more information or clarification (since this seems to be the most informative and authoritative DS site that I can find on the interwebs...)
How depressing. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that WB is planning on a double-dip for NODS and will bring out the restored version next year. Or maybe they just really screwed up on the press release...
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was the NODS restoration completed? You can't release what doesn't exist.
I'd prefer to have both versions of course.
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This is beyond awful news if true. And this is the first I've learned about it. Where has the actual WB Press Release been posted?
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This is where many on FB have found the release. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/322117/whv-press-release-house-of-dark-shadows-and-night-of-dark-shadows-blu-ray
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Oy. I'm very sorry to hear this, also. Still hoping for the best...
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Well, this could be grasping at straws, but it does say: "Note: All enhanced content/special features listed above is subject to change." So, it may not really be the theatrical GP version of NoDS that ultimately gets released.
Though one thing we can be sure of, at some point Darren will surface and he will tell us what's really going on...
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It says on the Classic Horror Film Fans board that Darren has confirmed on Mobius that the NoDS release is the unrestored cut. In fact the same one that was prepared for TV broadcast a few years ago--2006 I think? So, if you DVD-Red the movies at any point since then, you pretty much have what they're selling.
G.
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Wow... I am stunned. I have one thing to say to Warner Bros., and it's not appropriate for a public forum. So I will try to clean it up: First, you slap fans in the face with your approval of some of the new film's screenplay, then your handling of the new film's marketing, and now this - the final straw. I think all most of us wanted was to see Darren's magnificent work, and that is why we enthusiastically went along with everything you have done. But now...
Just sell the rights to these films to MPI after you release them. At least they would do the right thing.
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It says on the Classic Horror Film Fans board that Darren has confirmed on Mobius that the NoDS release is the unrestored cut.
Well, if that really is true, then it's hardly a time to "rejoice" as the press release would have us do. It's more like a time to weep/grieve! [bawl]
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...and hold onto your laserdisc, as those have TV spots for each film (the NODS one has a couple shots from cut scenes in it), something the new DVD & Blu-rays won't.
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This doesn't mean that we won't see the restored version in the future. My understanding is that there is still a great deal of work to be done on the restoration and, if that's the case, it's understandable that Warners would want to get the two original films out to tie in with the 2012 DVD release rather than waiting for the completion of the restoration.
Also, I think it's a good sign that Warners is releasing HODS and NODS on DVD and BluRay rather than through their MOD Archives program. That indicates that they feel that there is a significant market for both films. It wouldn't surprise me if Warners is testing the waters with these releases, to see if there is sufficient interest for them to pursue the restoration and release of NODS.
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Whatever standard they may have for NoDS selling is obviously too high, if they still consider the new film a flop, after raking in as much money as it has. This is pretty devastating to fans of NoDS.
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In fact the same one that was prepared for TV broadcast a few years ago--2006 I think?
I've never seen that version. Is it at least Widescreen and not a Pan & Scan version?
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Yes, it will be 1.85:1 not pan and scan.
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Well, then at least we can be thankful for small favors...
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Whether they've fixed all of the audio problems in their NODS transfer is unknown.
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This is so sad! All those years of anticipation that we could get to see the enhanced, restored NODS cut that would more clearly tell the story in the script, and now it's all gone. We get nothing. Devastating and insulting.
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Whether they've fixed all of the audio problems in their NODS transfer is unknown.
Somehow I'm doubting that they have.
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A letter campaign to Warner Bros. expressing our dismay with the handling of our show, anyone?
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Yes. And if they release them bare bones, we have to buy them. Buy two copies. Money talks.
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A letter campaign to Warner Bros. expressing our dismay with the handling of our show, anyone?
Angry letters scolding Warners and declaring "ownership" of DS? Not likely to help, and could actually hurt the chances of a future release. Calm, reasonable letters thanking them for the planned releases and encouraging them to pursue the restoration and release of NODS? That could be helpful.
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Angry letters scolding Warners and declaring "ownership" of DS? Not likely to help, and could actually hurt the chances of a future release. Calm, reasonable letters thanking them for the planned releases and encouraging them to pursue the restoration and release of NODS? That could be helpful.
Well, it is our show, and they should be thanking us for supporting their product as much as we have - when many of us didn't want to. Many of us gingerly went along with the production of the new film in the hopes that they would pay us back in kind by releasing these restorations, and while I would never write them a letter to that effect, I feel that I can relay my disappointment in such a manner here.
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I'm not going to buy a bare bones release of the theatrical cut. I have no interest in ever seeing that version of NODS again. Money does talk, and that's why I'm keeping mine. But everyone can do what they want, as far as letters or purchasing, for all it matters.
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Do we know or can you say Darren why they choose not to do the restored version? Damn....So sad. I feel for you most of all because of all your hard work.
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Very sad news. Although I am happy that both films will be released to Blu Ray, I am so sad to hear that the restored version of Night is not the one coming out. Yes I will buy them, I love Dark Shadows, and yes, I will get the Depp film also. Hopefully, maybe in the future they will do the restored version.
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i'll prolly buy them just to have them. but oh this pisses me off. since Darren was unable to find footage for the 1st film ok that makes me sad. but that's not his fault. i know he did try for quite a long time. & he worked quite hard to find all the cut scenes for the 2nd film. i'm to lazy to put the titles.
sorry this just makes me mad. he worked his ass off working on that one. so not only does this i'm sure upset him. but the rest of us as well. as you can tell i am mad about this. i'm sorry i don't care about the theatrical cut for the 2nd film. that film well that cut makes no sense to me & it was cut in a way that the film makes NO SENSE to me. it's boring as well. i was dying to see the uncut version so that the film would explain more of the story for not only me but the rest of us here. oh there's no doubt that i prolly would have enjoyed that cut MUCH better than the theatrical cut.
since it was the version that "Dan Curtis" wanted to put out but was as we all know was pretty much forced to cut. i'm sure i'm not alone in this either. sorry folks i just had to vent.
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Angry letters scolding Warners and declaring "ownership" of DS? Not likely to help, and could actually hurt the chances of a future release. Calm, reasonable letters thanking them for the planned releases and encouraging them to pursue the restoration and release of NODS? That could be helpful.
Please, and buying the DVDs and Blu-rays couldn't hurt, not buying them won't help. Buy them, for the cause [ghost]
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Do we know or can you say Darren why they choose not to do the restored version?
I can't go into great detail, but essentially home video didn't want to spend the money on a restoration.
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oh that's total BS Darren. i don't mean i don't believe what you say isn't true. there's no doubt you are telling the truth. it's just BS that they can spend money on movies that don't need restoration & fill those with extra's. yet they are to damn cheap to give us Loyal fans the actual versions of DS. well the films i mean.
they can afford it. an example would be & granted MGM owns this film. the film "The Wizard of Oz' as much as i love that film cause it's a film that is part of my child hood as it is most of us here i'm sure. they've remastered that damn film at least a dozen times & i wouldn't be surprised if they do it one time & the film breaks on how much it's actually been restored. yes that's a beloved film but you'd think that they'd just say ok we've done it enough. other films that's got countless releases through the years" uh "Re-Animator"
i dunno how many times that's been remasterd but it's been released at least 20 times onto dvd. at least. 'Army of Darkness' is another one for example & well "The Evil Dead' as well. those from different companies granted but still. there have been films that they'd put out other than the ones i've mentioned that
have gone the same route. cause they are too damn cheap. yet if it was an oscar winning film it'd be done in a heartbeat. ok if they'd want to put the films out in time for the "Tim Burton' release the video release mind you. ok fine i can live with that. since the whole series did get put out again. but the films really needed remastered regardless. i know i haven't seen the print that you made so i don't know how bad the print was. but i could have lived with saying gee we need more time to work on this. instead of saying screw it let's put out the crappy version. it just bugs me how much these studio's don't listen to us fans. or you who work their asses off to put all this together. i don't know how much money you've spent on putting all of that together. but i have no doubt that it's a LOT of money. sorry for the ramblings
it's just these people in charge wonder why some people don't buy their product it's cause they don't listen to the fans. when a show's creators ask the fans what they want on this or that set. some listen & give us fans what they want. those are people i really respect. & there's no doubt that they'd make a TON of money if they'd put out the uncut version you put together. more so than the cut version they are putting out no doubt. ok rant done sorry about the length.
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No gnus is good gnus, I hope.
[ghost_huh]
Never say die!
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Darren, I am so sorry to hear of this news as I know how much work you have done and what it all has meant to you. I'm sorry for the NODS fans as well. [ghost_sad]
[ghost_tongue] [ghost_mad] [ghost_angry]
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I can't go into great detail, but essentially home video didn't want to spend the money on a restoration.
Would Warners approve the project if funding could be obtained from other sources?
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Major bummer. I'm glad they are being released but I was really looking forward to the restored NODS. Sorry Darren. :(
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Thank you-- everyone-- for all the kind words and well wishes.
I deeply appreciate them. I just wish I had better news after all this time.
The general sense I get is they spent some money transferring the short version back in 2005/2006 in HD, and they feel it's an excellent transfer, and they don't feel it's worth spending any more money on it.
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Darren, I just want to add to everyone else's sentiments and say how disappointed I am, especially after your years of hard work. I have heard you make at least three presentations at Festivals over the years. For what's it worth, I would never buy these versions, which I already own on VHS. This is a major disappointment and perhaps most insulting is that it is a reversal of what we were told - that the Depp film would finally spur the release of the restoration of Night of Dark Shadows. If not now, never, I regret to say.
Frank
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The VHS versions are Pan & Scan, so you lose a lot of the frame. Sometimes characters are even completely missing in some shots. And that's why I said that at least we can be thankful for small favors that the DVD/Blu-ray release will be widescreen.
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Too bad. They almost got $40.00 off me, but I have both on my computer. No need to spend money if they are going to be the same movies. I would have bought HODS if there was a complete NODS to have a set of DVDs of the old movies.
[ghost_tongue] to WB for not making my day and causing Darren hard work that won't be recognized! [ghost_mad]
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I really should step in here and say that Jim Pierson has also been on this crusade with me, and working hard on trying to make it happen. The cast has also been beyond generous with their time and talents, laying down the needed audio. I have to hope that it won't be for naught and someday it will happen. Though after 13 years (16 if you include the originating Video Watchdog article that began this whole tragic crusade into oblivion), my optimism is worn a bit thin.
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This is so sad. We've waited so long, so patiently. I suppose that it shouldn't come as too big of a surprise. Of course Warners has the resources to do this but apparently it's not regarded as enough of a money maker.
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First I want to thank Darren and the others who assisted you and for all the hard work you put into this project and for all of the personal/professional sacrifices you made through the years. I pray one day soon it will happen.
There are some cousins here advocating not to buy the DVD as is. I am just trying to figure out in my little mind if that is a good idea. If the NODS sales are poor that would back WB's decision in not paying for the restoration. On the other hand if the NODS sales are great would that change WB's position? Or is it that we have reached a point in time where after all of the movies' DVDs are released including the new movie, WB will completely cut off all ties to the DS franchise. I am assuming there will not be a sequel.
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Even though I am not a fan of HODS, I will buy the Blu Ray when it comes out to show support for the franchise. Not buying it because it is not what it should be (the restored version) is only going to send the message that there is not a market for DS. I'll buy the new DS film as well.
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There are some cousins here advocating not to buy the DVD as is. I am just trying to figure out in my little mind if that is a good idea. If the NODS sales are poor that would back WB's decision in not paying for the restoration. On the other hand if the NODS sales are great would that change WB's position? Or is it that we have reached a point in time where after all of the movies' DVDs are released including the new movie, WB will completely cut off all ties to the DS franchise. I am assuming there will not be a sequel.
This is how I look at it, and why I am so blistering mad - for Darren and us.
It took them until the end of the DVD era to even release it on disc. It would have to do exceptionally well to even warrant another physical release. We all thought that two big names in Hollywood (Burton and Depp) would create a motion picture that could spawn a DS revival. Apparently that didn't happen. And if the efforts of Burton and Depp couldn't help in getting the restored DVD/BRD release (It has been argued that they actually hurt it, but I won't go there), it looks very bleak. Night would have to sell exceptionally well for the studio to consider re-releasing it as it is, without the restoration. It would have to do even better to get the restoration. Now it is possible that it will, since so many people have wanted these films for so long. And it is possible that fans of the new film will bite on these, though for a barebones release, it's kind of expensive (perhaps big box markdowns will help).
Warner Bros. didn't learn their lesson from the film - that you have to support the fans to avoid negative reactions from the get-go which inspire initial apathy at the box office or at the supermarket checkout stand. Releasing a bare bones DVD/BRD is silly, because, as is seen here, some fans won't bite because they feel it's the same thing they already have. Warner Bros. is not helping its own cause, and, at this point, it doesn't appear that they want to. Note that they didn't even have to release the restoration, but a few audio commentaries or mini-specials could have made the difference for some fans. But I don't know if that difference will be made now, meaning another 20 years without seeing any part of the restored version released? Like I said, I'd love for Warner Bros. to relinquish the rights to these movies, so another studio can do the right thing. What I'd really love is for Warner Bros. to step up to the plate and realize their mistake and fix it.
Now, if by some chance, we do get a sequel or a re-envisioning of the Burton film, things could change. But that would be a miracle.
As always, I thank Darren for all of his hard work. I have been following this for years now, so I know how much you have been through, and it's just not fair. I too want to chime in and tell you that I am very sorry.
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Something we have to remember, though, is that even since the Depp/Burton DS has been in play, it's never been a given that the restoration was going to be allowed and released. The truth is that WB has been dragging its feet on poor Darren all along. And who can forget how not all that long ago they'd announced with great fanfare that the two films were going to come out as a set, also with no extras whatsoever. Sure, they eventually backtracked on the idea then, but that really appears to have been their inclination all along and the only thing new now is that they finally seem to be following through on doing it. [ghost_sad]
Also, we probably shouldn't confuse the film and video divisions because they're separate entities at WB and they operate independently. The Depp/Burton film could have been a huge success and spawned who knows what and the video division could have still made this same decision. Apparently as Darren says, they believe they've already put in enough money with the HD transfers they already have. And its certainly been a case that all along they haven't believed that there's a big DVD/Blu-ray market for either hoDS or NoDS, so it's not really surprising that they don't believe that putting more money into them will reap any greater profit when their apparent myopia causes them to see the potential market as a finite one regardless of what they may do. We could certainly argue and I'm sure it has been argued that a restored NoDS is likely to sell much better than a non-restored NoDS might. But apparently they've closed both their minds and their pocketbooks to that possibility. [ghost_rolleyes]
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well said well said. & you too Cousin Barnabas. honestly not to be Mean it didn't even occur me to how much Jim Pearson put his hard work into as well. as well as the cast. you would think that with the cast members who were involved & who support it. plus the man who Run DS Jim Pearson they'd reconsider & realize there's a market for it. hell they did put out the whole series on dvd. yes i know that MPI originally put those out. but they sold well enough to do the whole show.
i forget who's since re-released the show but that has to be doing well. & those big box sets of the whole series you'd think they'd look at the numbers if Warner's didn't put those out they could have at least picked up the phone. i doubt they did but it would have been nice. i haven't seen the Johnny Depp/Tim Burton Film yet to be honest. i never got around to see it in the theatre. but i have heard it wasn't good. so i'll prolly buy that on blu-ray. since it's DS & i'll go in with an open mind. like i always do when it comes to watching a film. or tv show etc..
honestly i dunno if refusing to buy the films as they are going to put them out will help our cause. i don't think dvd is done yet to be honest. we prolly still got a few years left of it i'm sure. but i do see your point though. i'd say i wish MGM would help us out. but they have been having money problems for years!
cause didn't they release the films? way back when? i know my VHS copy of the 1st film was put out by them at least. or does Warner own them now? i lose track who owns MGM since it's been sold countless times through the past 20-25 years to be honest. even though MGM is my favorite movie company. well that & New Line. this kinda reminds me of Paramount with the Friday the 13th Series well the films i mean.
on how for years they denied having ANY deleted scenes for any of the films. than in (2004) they put out that dvd box set. & what do you know it's got deleted scenes! now they are saying that's all there was.
which i doubt. the original uncut versions for those from what i hear the MPAA prolly has their own copies. but Paramount isn't putting those out. nor seeking them out either. same thing isn't it? sorry for going off topic a bit. i've been watching that series a little bit in the past few days. he he.
granted that's NOT based off a tv series. but they drag their feet on those as well. it did later become a great tv series though. anyways. back on topic. i also thank Darren & everyone who has worked on getting the intended film out as it was meant to be. i was also a follower of his website for a long time as well. & i missed it & still miss it a great deal but i do understand why he closed it. as you can tell i've calmed down a LOT. it just sickens me HOW cheap these movie companies are yet they can afford these stars with these stupid pay checks. & these over priced films that most of time these days anyways suck. sure we get some good ones. but movies honestly have sucked ass in the past few years. that's why the lose money.
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sorry i forgot to add this, it's NOT cause people download films. it's cause people see crap & don't want to pay for it. it's really that simple. hollywood has run out of ideas. original ones. but again sorry for going off topic here. my point is really this either way if they can afford those kind of films & all that. they can afford to fix our films. & Darren & Dan Curtis' & everyone else who worked hard on that film, during the making of it & during the restoration that Darren spent nearly 20 years putting together.
there's no doubt i'm sure he's angry about it as well. well i'm done rambling again sorry for going on so long
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I am also slightly concerned about the date of this release. October 30? They could have had a whole month to sell this thing in October when people grab random, spooky films. Are they trying to separate it from Depp Shadows as much as possible? Why not market them together? What is it, exactly, that they are trying to accomplish by releasing these the day before Halloween? Thoughts?
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I suspect the timing is just like when things are specifically timed right before Christmas - WB is hoping to cash in on last minute impulse buying when the spirit of the season is its highest.
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One has to remember that Hollywood uses current corporatist thinking: how much money can I make right now? It doesn't plan ahead, looking at all the benefits and consequences. It just wants lots and lots of money right now. Not wanting to invest anything in the restoration, but just dumping out the DVD's/BR's right now, it wants to make that money right now, and then move on to something else because right now comes and goes quickly. To them, making a hundred bucks right now appears better than making over a thousand bucks over the next week. Hollywood doesn't want to spend money on the restoration because spending money is not what it's all about; it's about making money. Of course, the old, correct, tried and true axiom of you've got to spend money to make money is forgotten. Instead, they follow what Thurston Howell III said on Gilligan's Island: "Money is something you do not spend; you just make more of it."
What's really sad, is that when they do stick a crowbar into their wallets and spend it, they do so foolishly. Look at how they blew it when it came to marketing DS-2012. And these guys get eight-figures-a-year salaries. Now that's foolish spending.
Gerard
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Scroll down to post# 33 for the cover "art."
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/322116/whv-press-release-house-of-dark-shadows-and-night-of-dark-shadows-dvd/30#post_3947554
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I suspect the timing is just like when things are specifically timed right before Christmas - WB is hoping to cash in on last minute impulse buying when the spirit of the season is its highest.
But who buys a Christmas special the day before Christmas? If it were released three weeks before, it would still be there for last-minute shopping. This is really idiotic and is going to hurt the sales of these discs even more. Impulse buyers have two days to buy???? Get DS out of the hands of this horrible company.
EDIT:
Darren, thank you. I see NO MENTION of the new movie on the covers? Wow. Wonder if it will be incorporated somewhere else in their marketing. If not, that is telling.
And I see Grayson gets the center picture. Even more interesting. Would've thought by looking at it that they were planning to release a picture with more of her in it. [ghost_huh]
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We were initially told that these would be coming out in 2013, 5 months from the release of the Depp/Burton movie on DVD in order to keep them separate, then shortly before the theatrical release of the Burton film we were suddenly hearing that the date was being moved to October and they weren't interested in the restoration. The late October date is probably the fastest they could squeeze it into the schedule, as obviously September would have been better. Studios usually need 5 months from having completed masters to release date.
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Scroll down to post# 33 for the cover "art."
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/322116/whv-press-release-house-of-dark-shadows-and-night-of-dark-shadows-dvd/30#post_3947554
Ugh, not very nice. And giving NODS a tagline of "one bite is never enough" to fool people into thinking it's a more straightforward 'vampire film' sequel to HODS is lame.
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But who buys a Christmas special the day before Christmas?
You and I may think it's strange, and we may not impulse buy in the situation - but apparently enough other people do or it wouldn't continue to be a marketing strategy that seems to always show up for the holidays. And with online shopping, it's only only gotten even more widespread.
I see NO MENTION of the new movie on the covers? Wow. Wonder if it will be incorporated somewhere else in their marketing. If not, that is telling.
The Depp/Burton film may be mentioned on the backs of the cases. Who knows? But even if it isn't I don't know how telling it might be. If the decision to move the release up to October and not to do the restoration had been made after the Depp/Burton film came out, then maybe one could make a case that it had something to do with the Depp/Burton film. But as the decisions were made before the film was even released, it seems more like what I was saying yesterday - WB has had the inclination all along to release both films without extras and not to do the restoration. The Depp/Burton film has pretty much been immaterial. In fact, if as Darren indicates that the previous decision to hold off the DVD/Blu-ray release of the original films until 2013 so as to keep their release separate from the release of the Depp/Burton film was made even earlier than this latest decision was, then in all likelihood WB never had a plan to tie the original films to the Depp/Burton film.
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The "One bite is never enough" line nowithstanding, I like the packaging. Both are certainly better than the ways the VHS releases were packaged.
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Well, this is all I know. We were supposed to get the unrestored releases on DVD years ago. They were delayed because of the new Dark Shadows. The thinking is they would be released around the same time, but then they were pushed back so as to separate the titles.
Then Depp Shadows is being promoted and something caused Home Entertainment to change the date of the release again.
Now, the packaging plays up the original series as opposed to Depp Shadows. Like you said, MB, there could be something on the back or, like I said, there could be some marketing tie-in. But I find it strange that all of this went down and now the TV Show is being used as the promotional tool as opposed to Depp Shadows. What does that lead us to believe? I have no idea, but I think it's clear that Depp Shadows played a part.
Why wait to release the movies until Depp Shadows came out, then opt to separate the release dates, then reverse that decision, release them closer to the debut of Depp Shadows, and then fail to mention Depp Shadows on the front covers? [ghost_wacko]
As for the art, I don't dislike it. It's actually what I was expecting.
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Though the original films should be tied to the original series because that's what their based on. They have a tangential relationship to the Depp/Burton film at best - and it to them. And tying them together could even confuse the non-DS public in sort of the same way that people have been confused in the past when it comes to the Buffy TV series and the original Buffy film. So personally I think keeping the original films and the Depp/Burton film separate is a smart move. But maybe that's just me...
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true...
other than an old mansion called "collinwood" NODS and DeppShadows have absolutely nothing to do with one another.
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I agree, but we could have had these released years ago. It is my understanding that they were pushed back because of Depp Shadows, presumably as a tie-in or as a follow-up. So when the decision was made to hold off on them (and later reversed), it is my interpretation that this decision had to do directly with Depp Shadows.
It is tangled, as you said. It is my hope that we will learn everything at some point. I understand that it can't be discussed now, but the whole thing is so strange and frustrating. GAH!
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I could be wrong, but given how this has played out it seems as if, against their own beliefs and their own desire to move forward, someone in WB's video division was somehow persuaded to hold off releasing the original films on DVD/Blu-ray because the Depp/Burton film was going to be made. And if the person who did the persuading was Pierson, it's certainly no secret that he can be persuasive. However, in truth they were fairly indifferent toward the Depp/Burton film, they didn't care if it did well or not, and they never really wanted the original films to be associated with it - and in the end they finally decided to go with their core belief that they should just release the original films in their original form using the transfer they had already done before the Depp/Burton film was even announced and let the chips fall where they may. We could certainly argue that their actions are exceptionally shortsighted. But it does seem as if much of that is quite possibly how things went down.
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Maybe they just really don't have a clue what to do with vintage genre material, and the Burton/Depp project simply muddied the waters?
Not a fan of the box "art," btw.
G.
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What's fascinating is to reread though this topic and to see that in July of last year it was reported with absolute certainty that the NoDS restoration was a go and the release of the hoDS/NoDS DVD/Blu-ray should coincide with the release of the Depp/Burton film - then in January of this year it was reported that the release of hoDS/NoDS had been moved to 2013 so that it would be separate from the Depp/Burton film - then in February a report that there had been absolutely no movement on the restoration - then just today Darren reported that a couple months later, even before the Depp/Burton film was released, they gotten wind that the decision had already been made not to restore NoDS and to release hoDS/NoDS this coming October. Seemingly bizarre. But apparently it all makes weird sense in the twisted mind of the WB video division's exec in charge who in the end appears to have gotten what he'd seemingly always wanted: no restoration and a DVD/Blu-ray release with no extras. [ghost_rolleyes]
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I think after 42 years WB had sufficient time to learn how to spell Jonathan's name correctly!
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I sincerely hope that the cover doesn't have that mistake, jimbo. [ghost_sad]
It's interesting whose names went on each cover. For HoDS, it's Jonathan and Joan, something I love very much, despite the fact that I don't think Joan has a large enough role in this film to warrant it. But I am not complaining. [ghost_wink] (The VHS only listed Frid.)
For NoDS, however, I don't know why David Selby's is the only name. The old VHS gave Kate Jackson the top billing followed by David. I guess her name isn't that recognizable anymore?
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For those interested, on Blu Ray .com, you can get the link to amazon to preorder them at $13.99 each. Mine are ordered, one set for me, and the other for my little sister, although she is not so little anymore, but if it wasn't for her, I never would have watched Dark Shadows to begin with, she got me started watching it on Thanksgiving, 1968.I am hopeful, that someday, perhaps Warner Brothers will have a change of heart, and complete the restoration of Night.
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Here's the links for pre-ordering on Amazon:
House of Dark Shadows dvd:
http://www.amazon.com/House-Dark-Shadows-Jonathan-Frid/dp/B008JL8NQ0/ref=sr_1_24...
House of Dark Shadows blu-ray:
http://www.amazon.com/House-Dark-Shadows-BD-Blu-ray/dp/B008JLBNJE/ref=sr_1_2?s=m...
Night of Dark Shadows dvd:
http://www.amazon.com/Night-Of-Dark-Shadows-DVD/dp/B008JLBNLW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_...
Night of Dark Shadows blu-Ray:
http://www.amazon.com/Night-Dark-Shadows-BD-Blu-ray/dp/B008JLBNNA/ref=sr_1_3?s=m...
At the moment, the dvds are only $10.47 a piece (while the blu-rays are $13.99 each), with free shipping on orders over $25! [ghost_smiley]
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That's very reasonable for these bare bones releases. Would I gladly pay $20 for bonus features? Yes, I would. Would I gladly pay $30.00 for the restoration? Yes, I would. Does Warner Bros. care at this point? No, they do not. [ghost_closedeyes]
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Not a fan of the box "art," btw.
Likewise. Weak.
[smash] [original promotional art drum]
I'll buy them. And I'm pleased and hopeful that the Depp/Burton film won't be mentioned anywhere on the packaging, for purity's sake.
I never imagined a more anti-climactic fallout from this new movie.
Somehow, I still feel optimistic about the future of the restoration.
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i really doubt they will ever put out Darren's Version. but i of course hope i am wrong. i'm curious & this may sound like a stupid question but how well did the Depp version do anyways? i wasn't really following it. it of course didn't do business like say "Batman' did back in (1989) for example. or "Edward Scissorhands' both are
i think classic in their own right.
but is there going to be a sequel to the Depp film? i thought i heard somewhere that it was greenlight for one. but the thing is though i have heard that. i haven't heard anything since if that is still going to even happen. if they do make one & by the trailers it looks like they added comedy? in it they should remove that in the next film. maybe have someone who will do it better since i haven't heard the greatest things about the film. & honestly i don't always get the spelling of "J.Frids's name right either. but than i don't often type or write his name anyways it's only on a rare occassion so that's my excuse. what's theirs?
i think with them using "Joan Bennet's name on the front makes sense actually. no her part isn't big in the film but she is a name actress. kind how like some films that "John Carradine" did through the years when he only had a cameo in it, he was billed on the front. & in some of the 'Christopher Lee" films where he's only has a cameo or just a small role or just even hell a narrator. he gets sometimes top billing. even though
he wasn't used that much. that's prolly the same reason on why "Joan's B.' name is on the front.
i dunno why Kate Jackson's name isn't on the cover she's i think still a name. just from "Charlie's Angel's itself. unless the current moron's running that department hasn't even taken a look at the film.
i don't mean the people who did restore it a few years ago at the Warners. anyways if the Depp Version did flop maybe they just don't want to tie it in together? or something? i dunno it'll prolly say something mentioning it though. no doubt they will stick a trailer on for the film before the film starts. or i dunno they may think that people will get confused on which film they are buying. i may have said this in the past here. where some people are pretty damn stupid. back when my brother was manager at various video stores through the years. people would rent say "Malcom X' sorry about my spelling. when that was out in the theatre. & when they saw a video in the video store called that. they thought it was the actual film.
than they'd rent it & watch it & than complain that it wasn't the film but the actual documentary! they didn't carry porn so it wouldn't surprise me if someone would even get those titles confused. well the paradoy's anyways. there are some pretty stupid people out there. i'm not calling anyone here stupid but you all know someone like this. or are related to at least one person. my point is maybe that's WB reasoning on putting them release wise apart?
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Don't forget that Grayson Hall was an Academy Award nominee and John Karlen has made a name for himself as well. Joan Bennet should get an AND Joan Bennet billing. As far as NODS, again Grayson Hall. David Selby, Kate Jackson and John Karlen are well known names as well. Lara Parker might be recognizable now because of her writing.
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Yeah, I too was suprised there was no mention of "Academy Award nominee" Grayson Hall or "Emmy winner" John Karlen, Kate Jackson (nominee), etc. Maybe it will pop up on the bacK? And while we're at it, how about "film legend" before Joan Bennett's name? [ghost_wink]
I never imagined a more anti-climactic fallout from this new movie.
Tell me about it. [ghost_closedeyes]
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The back cover art is up for both HoDS and NoDS. No mention of Depp Shadows anywhere. Check it out for yourself on Amazon. Really kind of digging the backs.
http://www.amazon.com/Night-Dark-Shadows-David-Selby/dp/B008JLBNLW/ref=sr_1_24?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1343715871&sr=1-24&keywords=dark+shadows
http://www.amazon.com/House-Dark-Shadows-Jonathan-Frid/dp/B008JL8NQ0/ref=sr_1_11?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1343716149&sr=1-11&keywords=dark+shadows
Though I would have loved for this to have been the cover art...
http://www.amazon.com/House-of-Dark-Shadows/dp/B0012DP6L2/ref=sr_1_3?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1343716224&sr=1-3&keywords=dark+shadows
This must be new, because I don't recall this being the image used for the Amazon rental. It was the old VHS art.
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I like the new cover art, both front and back. The back artwork is cool.
Bennet's name is on the front cover, no?
The third artwork has been used so much.
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The more I'm seeing of the packaging, the more I'm liking it. Thanks so much for the links, Cousin_Barnabas. [ghost_smiley]
As for using the hoDS poster, as much as I love it, I'm sort of glad they're not using it on the packaging because it gives away that Carolyn gets staked. But then, too much of the hoDS promotional materials gave away too much IMHO. And that poster has been being used for a while now for the Amazon Instant Video because I've been seeing it come up in DS searches since around sometime in May.
One thing about the NoDS packaging that's interesting is that the billing on the back seems to be a mixture of the opening credits and the poster credits. The film has:
Starring David Selby
Also Starring Grayson Hall
Lara Parker, John Karlen, Nancy Barrett, James Storm, Thayer David, Christopher Pennock, Diana Millay
And Introducing Kate Jackson as Tracy
(as opposed to the film's closing credits which are:
David Selby, Grayson Hall, Kate Jackson, Lara Parker, John Karlen, Nancy Barrett, James Storm, Thayer David, Christopher Pennock, Diana Millay, ...)
whereas the posters have:
Starring David Selby
Also Starring Grayson Hall - With John Karlen - Nancy Barrett - Lara Parker
but the packaging has:
Starring David Selby Also Starring Grayson Hall With John Karlen Nancy Barrett Lara Parker James Storm Thayer David Christopher Pennock Diana Millay And Introducing Kate Jackson as Tracy
Also, I don't think I've ever seen that photo of Nancy Barrett as Claire that positioned next to Collinwood - or the one of David Selby and Lara Parker as Charles and Angelique with his face buried in her neck. And after all these years it's great to see something new (or at least new to me).
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I'm thrilled with that picture of Angelique looking out the window which I've never seen before; seems to be a variation of that photo shoot with Lara Parker looking melancholic that was so heavily featured in The Dark Shadows Companion.
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Ah ha - I was thinking it might have been the same one that's in the DS Companion, but I didn't compare them. Now I see how foolish I was to ever think that because they're very different - and the version on the packaging is something that I've never seen either. [ghost_cool]
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And that poster has been being used for a while now for the Amazon Instant Video because I've been seeing it come up in DS searches since around sometime in May.
Ahhh... I haven't checked in a while, but I always remember seeing the VHS art, but this was like 6 months back, so they must have updated it recently.
Also, I don't think I've ever seen that photo of Nancy Barrett as Claire that positioned next to Collinwood...
Nancy Barrett is getting A LOT of love in this artwork, which I think is fantastic, since she has always been so undervalued in promotion and official history, etc. She's one of the finest actors of the group, so I am glad that she is getting so much attention here - especially in the NoDS shot! Fantastic!
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I am not sure if this has been mentioned here before, since we have been discussing so many different possibilities for the eventual release of a restored NoDS, but this looks to be one of the best options:
http://www.shoutfactory.com/browse/470/scream_factory.aspx#axzz22qDWeJnx
Scream! Factory, a new division of Shout! Factory, specializes in cult Horror films. And what's interesting is that they are re-releasing Halloween II on Blu-Ray, despite the fact that Universal released it just last year on BRD! Universal's release was bare-bones, but Scream! is debuting a version packed with extras. So, if they could work something out with Warner Bros., this would be a great opportunity for a NoDS restoration. I wonder if there's any chance... [ghost_embarrassed]
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That sounds like it would be wonderful, CB. If only it were possible! Bear in mind that we're talking about Warner Bros. here, which must be absolutely the most "stingy" of the studios in regard to licensing its properties to other entities...
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Tell me about it... But if Shout! knew just how much money they would make off of the NoDS restoration, which would probably be substantial for their size studio, they may be more interested in bargaining with Warners. And the better the offer, the more likely money-hungry Warners will listen. [ghost_wink]
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If only. But as KMR says, Warner Brothers isn't normally willing to license out its properties, so getting them to do so with NoDS would probably be an uphill battle no matter how great a presentation they might get from other companies. [ghost_rolleyes] [ghost_sad]
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There's a fascinating critical discussion of house of DS, mainly focusing on the movie's initial impact on its audience, at this site:
http://videowatchdog.com/web/darkshadows/
The material originated as part of the Video Watchdog round table discussion on the DS original series, but there wasn't room to include it in the print version.
Our own Darren is one of the critics involved!
Best, G.
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[female_skull] [8_1_209] I Haven't seen anything posted on the release of House and Night of Dark Shadows in a while. But, I just wanted to say that I am very anxious to see how the Blu Rays of both look. I will have them Tuesday, I am really looking forward to seeing them. I know we all rightfully feel Warner Bros didn't do the right thing by not going ahead with the restoration. Hopefully, these will sell well. Then they hopefully will have a change of heart. I hope everyone enjoys them.
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I'm definitely looking forward to getting my copies. Yes, even a copy of hoDS (which is my least favorite version of DS) because I haven't seen it in its intended aspect ratio since 1971.
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I want to pick these up on Tuesday. I wonder which retailers will be selling them...
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J&R in New York -- regular DVDS are 7.99 each and the Blue rays are 15.and change.
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I'm an Amazon Prime member, and pre-ordered HODS/NODS from them. Usually I should've had them delivered by release day, which would've been today. However, in between following Hurricane Sandy's track on Sunday, I was checking Amazon and noticing that they hadn't been preparing my items for shipment. Ditto yesterday. I finally got an e-mail apologizing for the delayed shipment, but that it's on its way now. So, I wonder if this had anything to do with Sandy. If so, folks might get their Amazon shipments a day or two late. But at least it's on the way!
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As per usual, my order at Amazon merely says "Shipping Soon." [hall2_wink]
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I just received a text from Amazon that my order has shipped. So, chances are if you've ordered from Amazon but haven't received a text/e-mail yet, you should be hearing from them soon. [hall2_smiley]
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I preordered through Best Buy, and HODS is on its way [hall2_smiley] but NODS is backordered ("normally ships in 1-2 weeks") [hall2_sad] [hall2_angry] [hall2_cry]
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I preordered both HODS and NODS blu-ray some months ago from Amazon, and received them this afternoon. I'm watching HODS now (which is in 1.85:1 aspect ratio) and, may I say, so far HODS LOOKS FABULOUS! I wonder is our dear Mr. Darren can enlighten us as to the source for this HD transfer...(hint, hint).
Brian
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That's really great to hear, Brian! [bat7628] But I'm also very, very green with envy!!!
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I preordered both HODS and NODS blu-ray some months ago from Amazon, and received them this afternoon. I'm watching HODS now (which is in 1.85:1 aspect ratio) and, may I say, so far HODS LOOKS FABULOUS! I wonder is our dear Mr. Darren can enlighten us as to the source for this HD transfer...(hint, hint).
I'm 90% certain it was a 35mm Interpositive made from the original negative. I have only had the chance to spot check a few instances in NODS, and will post more on it later, but taking the director's cut/theatrical cut issue out of it entirely, apart from a few scattered shots that look a little chalky, visually it looks terrific. Some minimal grain reduction has been done which makes some of the optical effects much cleaner (the first appearance of Carlotta, for one), but does make those shots seem somewhat soft.
The audio quality itself is crisp and clean, and they have made one fix compared to the track used in the iTunes/Amazon download, but all the rest of the little music bumps and overlaps that shouldn't be there have not been fixed. There's music in the dining room scene that shouldn't be there, and a cue during the shot of Q&T getting out of their car as seen from the tower window is missing. Sound effects are a bit low in a few scenes, and some fragments of music appear right at the beginning or tail ends of some scenes that do not belong there.
On the plus side for both HODS and NODS, each includes German, Italian, and Castilian Spanish audio, but not the Latin American Espanol noted on the package. The German and Castilian narrate the scrolling text at the end, but not the Italian which has forced subs, which will be a revelation to Italian speakers who never were privy to what the end text said before.
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I'm 90% certain it was a 35mm Interpositive made from the original negative.
That's a lovely sentence.
And thanks for the information, too!
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It's possible that it derives from a 2K or HD scan of the original neg. The shots that appear chalky and flat, may be ones that have faded a bit on the original neg, as none of the previous transfers from interpositives appear this way.
Of course, if they scan the preservation element of the director's cut, that has no fading at all, so might bring those few shots back to life.
If you're curious, for two examples, a few shots in the funeral flashback, notable the POV from inside the tomb, and in the hanging flashback a few shots there and the overhead shot looking down past the hanging Angelique's body, in particular look very flat and a bit blue. It's in scattered shots throughout, I'd say 10%.
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another botched job from WB home video... sigh.
G.
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[skelleton_runs] I am still waiting for my Blu rays. I received a email from Amazon regrding Hurricane Sandy, and the delay. I am hopefull it will be here Thursday. After the horrors I saw on TV the past 2 days regarding the aftermath of this storm, I cannot cry about a delay. I feel terrible abut the devastation I saw happen. But thankyou for letting us know HODS and how it looks.
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I just checked on Amazon, and my HODS/NODS were delivered this morning (after I left for work, naturally). That was one day better than their estimate, so I hope that y'all will be receiving your copies soon.
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My copy of HODS on Blu-ray arrived yesterday (yay!) and I watched it last night. I hadn't seen it a number of years, and I have to say that it didn't hold up very well (for me, at least). While I certainly enjoyed it, the pacing and editing problems really stood out, and I was not really impressed by the acting of most of the principals (or the material they had to work with). It's really funny that I recall it being very gory for its time--a veritable bloodbath. But now, being used to stuff like True Blood, it seems so restrained! (And that '50s-'70s "bright red paint" blood is a hoot!) It was quite a pleasure to finally see Don Briscoe in his blue jammies in hi-def! [hall2_kiss]
Best Buy sent me a message this morning that they have shipped my backordered copy of NODS, so if I'm lucky I'll get it tomorrow (more likely it'll be Monday). That's the one that I'm really looking forward to. I tend to watch this one once every year or two. When it first was released, I considered it to be quite inferior to HODS, but since then I've definitely changed my opinion. I think it holds up quite well. Plus, for those who are enamored with Lyndhurst, it's virtually a religious experience.
I'm hoping that the (brief) backordered status of my BB order--and the fact that I saw no copies of either movie at a local strip mall--is maybe a clue that these are selling very well. (I don't want to entertain the idea that they just had a really small print run and distribution...) Hopefully WB will be surprised by the sales and quickly give the green light to a restoration of NODS!!!
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Got my copy of NODS Blu-ray today! YAY!! [hall2_grin] And while I was eating lunch and going through today's newspaper, I took a look at the Fry's Electronics ad supplement in the Chicago Tribune. They have both of the Blu-rays featured! $12.99 each, with a note that the DVDs are also available for $6.99 each. I certainly wasn't expecting to see these movies in an ad supplement to a major newspaper! Cool! [hall2_smiley] I think this shows that Fry's has some reason to believe there's significant interest in the films.
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Just watched my Blu Ray of House of Dark Shadows. It look excellent. Remember on VHS, and even Laser how the red colors would bleed, nothing like that here. Its crystal clear. It looks and sounds excellent.Does the film itself hold up? For me it does.I do prefer the original show to the films.I enjoyed it very much. Looking forward toe watching Night very soon.
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Has this been brought up yet? I swear they cropped the picture (again).
VHS screen capture:
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcyqxhOU7u1r7y881.jpg)
DVD screen capture:
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcyqy8uMJ11r7y881.jpg)
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Somehow it looks like they cropped even more out for NODS:
VHS screen capture:
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcyrr2R8701r7y881.jpg)
DVD screen capture:
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcyrrkW3Ko1r7y881.jpg)
You can see that the table & the top of the fireplace have been completely removed!
Also, on a lesser note, the dvd menus are kinda crappy:
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcyqnelfRJ1rpbqpfo1_1280.jpg)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcyrjdZNSi1rpbqpfo1_1280.jpg)
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Are there some extra bits of dialogue in NODS? I was watching with friends and thought I heard some new lines in the Tower Room scene flashback and a repeat of the line "bring the painting to life" after that scene. I have not had time to replay it.
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Golly, those DVD captures look dark. Maybe it's the delightful people who work for the home video department punishing anyone who refuses to buy a Blu Ray player. *shrug*
The "cropping" might be a result of the correct screen ratio being restored. I remember Darren writing in previous posts about pan and scan versions where more of the frame actually showed up than was intended by the director. I wish I could recall the details, but my short term memory is like a swiss cheese that a rat has had its way with these days...
G.
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I was disappointed when I saw HODS. Daphne's nurse was always visible in the mirror, but Julia speaks to her and she's off camera. I thought she had been cropped, but tha twas not the case. Was Curtis saving money? It seems odd.
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Yes, when it comes to DVDs, it appears that it's typical for the widescreen version of a film to show less at the top and bottom but more at the sides than the full screen version does (and a VHS version would be comparable to a full screen DVD version). I've seen many complaints about that over the years - though as Gothick says, it also seems that the widescreen version is the way the film was intended to be seen. That would be why hoDS looks the way it does. However, with that example from NoDS, it seems as if we're not getting any extra width. Odd.
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Sara, Gothick is right. We're seeing the picture the way it was intended to be seen. Normally for TV showings of 1.85:1 widescreen films, the top and bottom of the 1.33:1 frame of the film print are included (or a little bit all the way around is cropped). These transfers are wonderful. No, Gothick, the picture is not too dark now. If anything, it was too bright on the VHS and laserdisc.
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MB, I think the earlier transfers of NODS used the entire frame. When I made a DVD of my laserdisc copy, I would sometimes watch it zoomed in on my widescreen TV, and the picture looked perfectly framed. With HODS, they had cropped a little bit all the way around for the VHS and laserdisc. I remember when HODS was on the CBS Late Movie, you could see a boom microphone in a drawing room scene and in the scene with the police car outside the front entrance of Collinwood; but when I got the home video releases, the microphone was gone...
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I haven't received my Blu-rays of hoDS and NoDS yet, but I do own the Amazon Instant Video version of NoDS. I just checked it for that Alex scene, and the framing is exactly the same as Sara Monster's screen cap, which is strange because I know that when I first bought that version I checked some other scenes and they were definitely wider than they are on the VHS. How weird would it be for some scenes to be wider but others not to be...
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The Tower Room Flashback definately has dialogue that is not in any of my previous versions, bootleg VHS, Pro VHS, VHS dub from Laser Disk, and SP DVDr copy from TCM.
We hear a laugh and Charles saying "more of your dreary moralizing, brother?"
Then we hear Gabriel yell "open the door" and Charles responds with "trying my patience brother." The annoying thing about this added dialogue is the fact that it's not synced with the lip movements.
The scene ends with Angelique repeating her lines about bringing the painting to life as a voice over and we see the portrait. Very strange.
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The Tower Room Flashback definately has dialogue that is not in any of my previous versions, bootleg VHS, Pro VHS, VHS dub from Laser Disk, and SP DVDr copy from TCM.
We hear a laugh and Charles saying "more of your dreary moralizing, brother?"
Then we hear Gabriel yell "open the door" and Charles responds with "trying my patience brother." The annoying thing about this added dialogue is the fact that it's not synced with the lip movements.
The scene ends with Angelique repeating her lines about bringing the painting to life as a voice over and we see the portrait. Very strange.
It's one of about two dozen audio mistakes on the transfer. The original audio source they used is of the 97min R version, and they had to make edits to it, in order to make it match the 94min picture. The tower scenes is one where they made a few bad decisions about what was supposed to be in there and what wasn't. The laugh and "moralizing" lines occur in shots from the R version where you can see the cast members saying them. They should have been edited out. The repeat of Angelique's "bring the painting to life, etc." at the end of the scene, does not belong in the 94min version- that should only be in a fully restored director's cut. The same for the music that now plays during the dining room scene- Curtis and co, dropped it from this scene when they mixed the short version. It should not be in the DVD transfer.
Previous video transfers were done "open matte" showing more on the top an bottom that was meant to be seen, theatrically. On the older transfers, for a few shots, where boom mics or floor mics would have been visible because of the extra head and foot room visible, the framed them tighter, but just for those shots.
TV broadcasts in the late 70s and early 80s would actually have been of a film print, shown entirely open matte with every boom and floor mic, gloriously, and incorrectly on display...
I hope this makes some sense.
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I compared a handful of shots from the new DVD/Blu-ray transfer of HODS to the 35mm film frames from a print, and the new transfer is zoomed in a little more than is preferable on the sides. There is a sliver or picture information on all 4 sides that has been cropped off.
The color is terrific on the new transfer for the most part, and some shots have an impressive amount of detail, but in my opinion, the framing is too tight.
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Thanks for the fascinating info, Darren. I can't make up my mind whether to buy the DVDs or not. The two snaps posted were not very impressive, but what you say about the color in the hoDS print makes me want to see for myself.
I really lack words to express the distaste I feel for the box cover designs, the same images repeated for those crap menus.
I'll stop now as I can feel a rant coming on.
G.
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I'll stop now as I can feel a rant coming on.
:(
Maybe next time.... ;)
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OK, now THIS is exciting: the fabulous RJ Jamison, author of the DEFINITIVE biography of Grayson Hall, has reviewed the hoDS/NoDS discs in the new issue of SCREEM magazine! Yay!
cheers, G.
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Yeah, the covers are weak, but I'll say in their defense that I like that DS12 is not mentioned anywhere on them. And the picture frame design they used, more so with DVD version, matches somewhat with the new covers for MPI's rereleases of the 40-ep sets. I'd have preferred original promotional art, of course, but it could've turned out much worse. .
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I received both DVDs, "House of Dark Shadows" and "Night of Dark Shadows" from amazon on October 30, delivered by UPS. I viewed "House of Dark Shadows" on a large screen, HD TV (not mine), and the print looked fantastic. I was especially taken by the depth of colors – the cinematography was superb for this film. Darren wrote "the framing is too tight," and I did somehow have the sense that the film had a broader scope (to use my own terminology) when I saw it at the Vista Theater in Los Angeles at the fest there a few years ago. The warmth of the fire in the several scenes with fireplaces was beautiful – I think that scene where Barnabas gives Maggie the music box is absolutely lovely. And I really liked the thick red glasses at the Blue Whale, or whatever that restaurant was. I like this movie more each time I see it, to my surprise. Of course there are flaws, but I think this is one of the best vampire movies I've seen. The performances are very good to excellent, beginning with Frid's. And Lyndhurst was breathtakingly beautiful.
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That was a pleasant read, thanx for that. I love this movie more for nostalgic reasons than cinematic reasons so it nice to hear positive points. I'd love to see the new print, but, I probably never will.
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I think Amazon might have mailed them by way of Australia, but my Blu-rays finally arrived today. And what's funny (or perhaps not so funny) is that the Depp/DS film's DVDs/Blu-rays that I ordered last week as Christmas gifts arrived yesterday even though they were shipped by Amazon 6 days after the Blu-rays of the original films. You've got to love the USPS! [hall2_rolleyes]
But be all that as it may, I'm really looking forward to checking out both hoDS and NoDS. [hall2_wink]
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Hey dom, you could try the local library. Ask if they can get the discs via Interlibrary Loan (ILL) if the local branch doesn't carry them. I would bet dollars to doughnuts they could get the films for you.
hugs, Tuffie
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Thanx, T, good idea. I'd love to see this version of HOUSE OF.
M
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Curiosity did get the better of me, so I checked the first NoDS Gallery sequence (Scenes #33-#39), and I see that the DVD/Blu-ray version of NoDS is not only different from the VHS, but it's different from the Amazon Instant Video version as it doesn't include the bit that I wrote about last year:
there's a point where you get to hear the beginning of one of Carlotta's lines that isn't in the current version of NoDS and also wasn't in the version that I'd seen back in '71:
Near the end of the scene in which Carlotta shows Quentin and Tracy the Gallery, after Quentin has had his vision of Angelique's body hanging in the tree, Tracy has questioned him as to what's wrong, and he replies that he guesses he was just daydreaming, as the camera holds on Quentin's close up, we hear Carlotta return to the room (recall that she had left to get a salad that she had prepared) and she says, "I brought some..." before her line gets cut off by the transition to the bedroom scene later that night.
So, with the R rated version's dialogue between Charles, Gabriel, and Angelique in the tower scene that was mentioned in earlier posts (which, BTW, is also in the Amazon Instant Video version along with the later repeat of Angelique telling Charles to bring the painting to life) it seems like between the VHS, the Amazon Instant Video, and the DVD/Blu-ray, there are at least three separate versions of NoDS out there, all of which seem to have something that the others don't. So it would be nice if one day we actually have a version that has everything - though, given Warner Brothers behavior through the years, who knows when that day will come?
Now watching the NoDS Blu-ray in its entirety is going to be even more fascinating to see what other things are different about it...
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How utterly maddening. But thanks for the eclaircissement, MB.
G.
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I think Amazon might have mailed them by way of Australia, but my Blu-rays finally arrived today.
I'm so glad you finally got them, though that was quite a wait you had, there [hall2_sad] For what it's worth, I had another Amazon pre-order of something that was released this Tuesday, and for the second week in a row, the shipment was delayed, in spite of my being a Prime member and supposedly getting my preorders on the day of release (I don't think this is an actual guarantee, but they sure make it seem like I should expect this). This time, they didn't cite a reason (backups from Sandy or the Nor'Easter, which really didn't affect us here in DC). But it was delivered today. I can't really complain, though, when I know that so many folks have been devastated by the storm. Next up is my DS (Film) Visual Companion preorder, so we'll see if I have better luck with that one in a couple of weeks.
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Something that was different from my recent orders was that the Blu-rays of the original films came in a padded bag rather than in an Amazon box. Not that that should make a difference because both the boxes and the bags have the same type of mailing labels - but perhaps it does. I'm going to have to pay attention from now on.
One thing I forgot to comment on yesterday is the quality of the picture with the NoDS Blu-ray. Just viewing the few bits that I checked yesterday was practically like really seeing those bits for the first time because the clarity of the picture and the vibrance of the color is just spectacular - especially compared to the VHS, which was originally amazing to me compared to the TV versions of NoDS that circulated back in the '80s and '90s. The clarity of the picture is even better than the Amazon Instant Video version, which I thought was an improvement over the VHS, though the color is about the same as the VHS. (But the AIV version still holds a place in my heart because of all the "extra" bits of dialogue and music cues that don't seem to appear on any other version of NoDS.) I actually wonder if NoDS even looked as good when it was originally shown in theaters because a lot of the projection equipment used back in the day left a lot to be desired.
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Curiosity did get the better of me, so I checked the first NoDS Gallery sequence (Scenes #33-#39), and I see that the DVD/Blu-ray version of NoDS is not only different from the VHS, but it's different from the Amazon Instant Video version as it doesn't include the bit that I wrote about last year:
there's a point where you get to hear the beginning of one of Carlotta's lines that isn't in the current version of NoDS and also wasn't in the version that I'd seen back in '71:
Near the end of the scene in which Carlotta shows Quentin and Tracy the Gallery, after Quentin has had his vision of Angelique's body hanging in the tree, Tracy has questioned him as to what's wrong, and he replies that he guesses he was just daydreaming, as the camera holds on Quentin's close up, we hear Carlotta return to the room (recall that she had left to get a salad that she had prepared) and she says, "I brought some..." before her line gets cut off by the transition to the bedroom scene later that night.
So, with the R rated version's dialogue between Charles, Gabriel, and Angelique in the tower scene that was mentioned in earlier posts (which, BTW, is also in the Amazon Instant Video version along with the later repeat of Angelique telling Charles to bring the painting to life) it seems like between the VHS, the Amazon Instant Video, and the DVD/Blu-ray, there are at least three separate versions of NoDS out there, all of which seem to have something that the others don't. So it would be nice if one day we actually have a version that has everything - though, given Warner Brothers behavior through the years, who knows when that day will come?
Now watching the NoDS Blu-ray in its entirety is going to be even more fascinating to see what other things are different about it...
The removal of the partial Grayson line from the gallery scene is the one fix (of over a dozen that are on the transfer, that they were informed about) that WB seems to have performed, while they left all the all of the others- the half-heard music cues at the head and tail of some scenes, the music in the dining room that doesn't belong there, the missing music from the tower POV early in the film. Each time they release the movies on home video, they do something wrong. First it was the foley and sound effects that were way too low on the laserdisc, now this. Each time, the end up generating another variant, another circus-freak/ Frankensteinien version, that has never, ever existed before and shouldn't. There were 3 versions: director's cut, 97min R version and 94min version. Now there's the 94 min version with the undermixed sound effects, the HD remaster (used for itunes and amazon, etc.) with the audio issues and the errant Grayson line, and the Blu-ray/DVD version which is the same as the HD remaster but has the Grayson line fixed. WB are turning NODS into Welles's Mr. Arkadin/Confidential Report! It's becoming an archival and historic mess.
It's a shame, because as far as sound quality is concerned, it's excellent. But the sound content is a complete mess. This track is not what DC approved for the shortened theatrical version back in 1971, and the studio was given ample opportunity and an offer of free assistance to help them make the fixes, which they couldn't be bothered to do.
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Dear God. Now THIS is horror. But thanks again, Darren, for giving us such a beautifully detailed (if excruciating) account of what's been happening with this title.
I know I'm one of the few who feels this way, but etched in my head right now is FDR's voice intoning "2012 ... a date that will live in infamy"--at least insofar as the history of DS is concerned.
G.
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NO FRENCH LANGUAGE ON H.O.D.S. BLU RAY? im watching the blu ray of H.O.D.S. and notice that french language is not available only french subtitles. the french language version had the titles redone as LA FIANCE DU VAMPIRE. I guess i will have to hang on to my vhs bootleg.
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FYI, I spot checked the German, Spanish and Italian dubs, and of course none of the sound effects and music issues are present there. I didn't believe they would- there's no reason they would, but there you go.
Joe- I was also hoping that HODS and NODS would have the foreign title sequences present, and that they'd switch-on when you chose the different languages, but alas. I remember my DVD of BABE did that, which enabled you too see the different title sequences.
The vault has film on all the foreign title sequences, all done in that "spooky" title font and sans serif font for the rest, but I think they aren't doing that kind of thing any longer- they're making disc authoring much simpler on the Blu-ray front and not using much alternate angle or branching options except rarely.
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I still haven't gotten the chance to watch the film itself, but I was also curious as to which trailer was included on the NoDS DVD/Blu-ray. And I was pleased to see that it's the one that I like to refer to as the "Death kept their love alive" (a tag line that I much prefer to "Just another night of...TERROR") trailer. But what I was really pleased to see was that it's a more complete version than the one that was included on the DS Tribute. That version was missing the audio for:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Prepare.jpg)
Strak - "Prepare yourself for eternity, witch.
And that's something that has always irked me because the "Death kept their love alive" trailer is one of my favorite trailers for the film. But now we have the complete version. And many thanks to whoever was responsible for that. [hall2_smiley]
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Let the Devil take his own!
lol...
G.
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given that NODS focuses so heavily on david selby and kate jackson, two of the series' later actors i never particularly cared for, this film never did much for me.
but i'm impressed with all of the passion and enthusiasm it's generating in this topic. i never really understood the power of it's fanbase.
i'll probably pick it up.
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I don't know if it's a case that NoDS has gained fans over the years, but a check of almost any general DS message board/mailing list clearly shows that it's certainly a case that over the years more and more DS fans have come out of the closet, as it were, to admit that of the two original films, NoDS is their favorite. And there are definitely many posts like that here on this forum.
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I still haven't gotten the chance to watch the film itself, but I was also curious as to which trailer was included on the NoDS DVD/Blu-ray. And I was pleased to see that it's the one that I like to refer to as the "Death kept their love alive" (a tag line that I much prefer to "Just another night of...TERROR") trailer. But what I was really pleased to see was that it's a more complete version than the one that was included on the DS Tribute. That version was missing the audio for:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Prepare.jpg)
Strak - "Prepare yourself for eternity, witch.
And that's something that has always irked me because the "Death kept their love alive" trailer is one of my favorite trailers for the film. But now we have the complete version. And many thanks to whoever was responsible for that. [hall2_smiley]
It's actually the same trailer that was on the laserdisc, and even the same exact 20+ year old transfer, from a damaged film element- You'll note the rip in the last shot of it. The unfortunate thing is that WB doesn't actively remaster their trailers in HD. If they did, I could have pointed them in the right direction as there's one trailer film element that is undamaged they could have used. Plus if they transferred it from one of the elements that doesn't have the superimposed text and title card, you'd be able to see a full 9 second shot from the lost Poolhouse sequence, without the text over it...
From the list of possible trailers there is:
-1min TEASER- this is the one that's mostly audio over the long-shot of Collinwood from HODS, with lightning flashes
-Domestic trailer- this is the one that's included on the new DVD/Blu-ray (also on the laserdisc)
-2min International trailer- this is on one of the DS bonus DVDs, but it's one without the superimposed text, and my fave of the bunch.
-TV spots (one was on the laserdisc- there are 10, 20, and 30 second varieties) a shot or two of a deleted scene is included on one of them.
The Miss American Ghost contest teaser- scrolling text over a Collinwood background.
And radio spots.
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Golly, Darren, you sure do know how to get an old fan excited! I'm sitting here salivating over the thought of that 9 second shot from the lost poolhouse sequence. Of ALL the lost sequences in the two films, I think that is the one I really wish had been salvaged. The shots from it that we do have are incredible...
It comes as no surprise to read that WB home video missed the boat even with the NoDS trailer. I presume that the hoDS trailer held no surprises, but, if there are comments to be made, you know I would love to hear them.
Best, Steve
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Hi Steve.
Well, you can see the 9 sec shot (or maybe it's 7secs- going off memory here) on the DVD/Blu-ray trailer with the text over it, but you've probably seen it already... A brief 2 sec bit of it is on the international trailer, and without text. I'm sure you know it well! Also keep your eyes out as the very first shot of the trailer is from a cut sequence (zoom in to glowing tower), and a few alternate angles in the hanging- the wideshot looking toward Angelque on the scaffold, for one.
The HODS trailer is the full 2:30 version, again sourced from the laserdisc and looking a bit grotty...
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Thanks, Darren. As I am sure I have mentioned multiple times, I own the laserdisc and my VHS tapes of the films are sourced from that. The friend who made the tapes for me (I have never owned a laserdisc player) was kind enough to include the trailer from each disc.
Even then WB home video was cheap, lazy, and disrespectful of these films.
Just calling it as I see it.
Steve
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when i play the trailers to either hods or nods it freezes my entire player and the only way to resume playing is to unplug my blu ray player and plug it back in again! anybody else experience this problem?
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I haven't even looked at hoDS - but I don't have that problem with NoDS.
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It's actually the same trailer that was on the laserdisc, and even the same exact 20+ year old transfer, from a damaged film element- You'll note the rip in the last shot of it.
I don't think I've seen the laserdisc version - well, unless it's the one that has shown up on a few Web sites, perhaps even your former Restoration site. I know I have seen a version on the Internet where Strak's line is included. But the odd thing is that it's completely missing in the version included on the DS Tribute (aka the DS 30th Anniversary). When it comes to that point in the trailer, there's just dead silence. And that's all the odder now that you've pointed out that it certainly appears that that version and the version on the DVD/Blu-ray are the same because they both have that rip near the very end. It's very odd. [hall2_undecided] Though I've also noticed that the version on the DS Tribute has somewhat of a green tint that isn't present in the Blu-ray version. (I'd show a side by side comparison, but my Blu-ray playing software on my computer doesn't have a screen capturing feature. Though a capture from the DS Tribute version is upcoming in this post.)
Plus if they transferred it from one of the elements that doesn't have the superimposed text and title card, you'd be able to see a full 9 second shot from the lost Poolhouse sequence, without the text over it...
Yes, here are screen caps with and without the NoDS logo:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Dream_logo.jpg)
Click here (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Dream_logo.jpg) for a 640X480 version.) | (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Dream_nologo.jpg)
Click here (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Dream_nologo.jpg) for a 640X480 version.) |
-1min TEASER- this is the one that's mostly audio over the long-shot of Collinwood from HODS, with lightning flashes
That one has to be the most bizarre trailer for the film. But then I'm not particularly a fan of the radio spots, so using one of them over footage from hoDS is not something I'd respond to well anyway. [hall2_wink]
-2min International trailer- this is on one of the DS bonus DVDs, but it's one without the superimposed text, and my fave of the bunch.
Yes, it's on DS Collection 26. It's probably my favorite as well, and I like to refer to it as the "He came from the house on the hill/She came from the grave" trailer because of the way the voiceover includes those tag lines over, among others, these two shots:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_HeHouse.jpg)
Click here (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_HeHouse.jpg) for a 640X480 version.) | (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_SheGrave.jpg)
Click here (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_SheGrave.jpg) for a 640X480 version.) |
Plus it includes some great shots from the seance:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Seance1.jpg)
Click here (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Seance1.jpg) for a 640X480 version.) | (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Seance2.jpg)
Click here (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Seance2.jpg) for a 640X480 version.) | (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Seance3.jpg)
Click here (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_Seance3.jpg) for a 640X480 version.) |
-TV spots (one was on the laserdisc- there are 10, 20, and 30 second varieties) a shot or two of a deleted scene is included on one of them.
I believe I've only seen the 10 and 30 second varieties of these. The 30 second version is on the DS Behind the Scenes VHS and segment of the DS Special Edition DVD. And I saw the 10 second version back in the day - though it wasn't much to get excited about because all it featured was the shot of Angelique approaching Tracy with the voiceover "From the makers of house of Dark Shadows, Night of Dark Shadows. (Laughter) A night of...TERROR."
Is the 20 second version of any interest compared to the 30 second version? At least the 30 second version includes deleted material.
The Miss American Ghost contest teaser- scrolling text over a Collinwood background.
I'm pretty sure I've never seen that. The only thing connected to Miss American Ghost that I've seen is the poster:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_MissGhost.jpg)
Click here (http://www.dsboards.com/images/NoDS_MissGhost.jpg) for a 1680X2543 version.)
And radio spots.
Yes...well...
[hall2_wink]
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Great stuff, MB.
I love this DS place.
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Latarnia posted three good screen shots of the new hoDS disc here (look for page 6, middle of page, in this thread):
http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum.yuku.com/topic/42499/master/1/?page=6#.UKHFGY7FXu0
He gives comparison shots from what he says is an Italian DVD--it looks a lot like the previous iteration we've seen of the movie, although I haven't seen the version Amazon offered for streaming/download.
I have to say the color, particularly on the third shot (Maggie lying on the altar from the final sequence of the movie) is stunning. It actually looks a lot more crisp than what I recall from what was shown in the local movie house in Aberdeen Maryland in 1970.
G.
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I don't know what "Italian DVD" was referred to in that thread. It looks like a bootleg made from the old VHS, and released by some shady company. If the HODS/NODS DVDs will be available in Italy, and it's pretty certain they will be, then the will be identical to the US releases, with maybe slightly different audio/subtitle options.
I have no qualms on the colors for HODS- it looks mostly terrific to me.
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I haven't bought mine yet, but -- looking at the captures -- I am extremely impressed with the way HoDS looks. Simply gorgeous. Now, I would like the studio to release NoDS "as it was meant to be."
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A few interesting home forum threads on the Blu-ray/restoration controversy... Hop on over and throw your two cents in... The studios do monitor the threads on the HTF...
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/325284/night-of-dark-shadows-butchered-on-blu-ray
http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum.yuku.com/topic/42499?page=7
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Darren, your tireless and astounding efforts are truly heroic. I'll keep the faith till the fat lady sings!
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Amen. I'm staying optimistic. Never say die.
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That's a fabulous thread, Darren. Way to go! and of course now i'm more frustrated than ever with the latest releases of the films. Aargh!
If I can think of something civil and eloquent to say, I'll post, but some of the posters, particularly yourself and Richard W, have already said it all much better than I could have.
If James Aubrey really did target Grayson's performance for cuts, that's yet another reason to loathe and detest the man.
Happy Thanksgiving!
G.
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If James Aubrey really did target Grayson's performance for cuts, that's yet another reason to loathe and detest the man.
I had the exact same reaction when I read that. [vylnt] IMO Grayson's performance as Carlotta is absolutely one of the best things about NoDS.
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[hall2_smiley]
My review of both films will be in the next issue of Videoscope. I refer to HODS as Dan's Hammer film, and NODS as his Ingmar Bergman film.
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If fans want NIGHT OF DARK SHADOWS restored and released on blu-ray, you're going to have fight for it. You've already spent 14 years hoping, and then Warner Brothers slapped the theatrical version onto blu-ray with an utter lack of care. That's it. They're done. It's over. Don't expect a special edition if the current edition sells well. That's not how it works. They will consider the market played out and the consumer demand satisfied.
I started a thread at Home Theater Forum that needs the support of Dark Shadows fans. Warner Home Video actively participates on HTF even to the extent of hosting field trips to studio for the membership. The head of the department monitors the posts there, and many back-catalogue titles the members have requested do get released. You don't have to write anything profound, just state that you want to see the 129 minute director's cut restored and that you'll buy it. Keep it simple or write longer posts if you want to, but stay focused on demanding NIGHT OF DARK SHADOWS:
www.hometheaterforum.com/t/325284/night-of-dark-shadows-butchered-on-blu-ray
If there is persistence and enough people interested, WHV will take notice and there will be results. They've responded to costlier undertakings in the past. But right now the thread is sinking down to the backpages. The trick is to keep the thread active and near the top of the page.
If you're not persistent it means you don't want the film badly enough.
Many thanks.
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Thanks for posting this, Richard. I will do what I can even though I personally am doubtful it will do any good.
My holiday message to the suits who control WB Home Video is a succinct one: a word that rhymes with "hockey puck", followed by YOU ALL.
Holiday cheer,
G.
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I'm glad you started that thread, Richard, and I really like the tone you got going there. Reasonable and productive, not bitchy and angry. I'll try to post there from time to time, and I hope others here will consider doing the same. I see nothing to be gained from throwing in the towel. Keeping interest in the restoration alive will keep the possibility of its completion alive.
The Bluray release is a setback, but it can be used as a tool for the cause if enough fans express their dissatisfaction with it, and their genuine desire to purchase the restored cut.
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One thing I've noticed, having bought both the DVD and Blu-ray versions of these movies, is there's not a whole lot of difference between the Blu-ray and the DVD when it's played on a Blu-ray player. When I play the DVD on the standard DVD player, the difference is like night and day. The colors are much more vibrant, the detail is profoundly sharper. I put the DVD on pause and did the same for the Blu-ray, then switched inputs to compare several times. I was unable to do the same with the when comparing the DVD on a Blu-ray player; I only have one of those players. Still, I paused at the same point and then removed the disk and replaced it with the Bu-ray disk. I did not percieve much, if any difference. It may be that my eyes are not sharp enough to pick up finer detail. It's also possible if I stared at them long enough side by side that I'd eventually notice an improved image on the Blu-ray. Be that as it may, the experiment has put to rest any concerns that I have over idea that my DVD collection has become obsolete and outdated.
In case anyone is wondering, I bought both versions because I was planning to get a Blu-ray player when I placed the order. I wanted DVD copies because I know I'm going to want to bring them to other people's houses to watch. I sometimes use HODS when I teach Dracula. Having the students compare and find counterparts for characters in the novel is an activity they enjoy.
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One thing I've noticed...is there's not a whole lot of difference between the Blu-ray and the DVD when it's played on a Blu-ray player. When I play the DVD on the standard DVD player, the difference is like night and day.
Your Blu-ray player may be upconverting the standard-definition DVD signal to a hi-def signal. Some player/TV setups do a better job at that than others, so results can vary.
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Upconverting results can even vary from DVD to DVD because with some of mine I've noticed a big difference, while with others there's seemingly no difference at all.
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I'd say it wouldn't hurt to comment on reviews like this one, in which the reviewer feels it's the most boring, worthless piece of crap ever.
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/7358/night_shadows.html
His House of DS one isn't really a rave, either...
I don't think people shold comment just to be a troll, but to respond to the review with positive comments, on how you disagree and love the film, etc. just so the reader comes away not entirely discouraged from seeking it out. After all, if you read nothing but bad reviews of something, then you tend to think there's a consensus, therefore X is, indeed bad. But if the reviews are all over the place, than you are a bit more charitable... "Hmm- some people hate it, but others seem to really love it... I wonder which side I'll be on..."
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Done.
I tried real hard to be nice but that review pushed my buttons.
Richard
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[See Reply #336 for link --admin]
Anyone who likes NIGHT OF DARK SHADOWS has been dismissed as a fan of the program.
I got into it with him.
Meanwhile, my thread on Home Theater Forum needs all the support it can get. Just on the click on the link in my post above. A moderator changed the title from "NIGHT OF DARK SHADOWS -- butchered on blu-ray" to "-- history and possible restoration?" and moved it out of the blu-ray section. Everyone please register and post there before the thread drops off Warner Home Video's radar.
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Even their new thread title is misleading. They should change it to NIGHT OF DARK SHADOWS:RESTORATION UNRELEASED. Has a nice ring to it.
I think it's safe to say that Duarte's review is amateurish, and that he's done some very poor research on NoDS. I'd be interested to hear if anyone reads it and thinks otherwise. But, I don't think the HighDefDigest gang is going to acknowledge that. It's gotten a little heated, and they obviously aren't impressed by the DS fans they've encountered so far (myself included).
I hope more of us will chime in over there (and elsewhere), speak kindly of the film, and hopefully get a more positive spin going.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that WB wants to sell NODS twice. If this version is successful, I suspect they will follow it up with the restored cut. Look at Watchmen. It was followed by the DIRECTOR'S CUT. I got suckered into buying that, because that was checkmated by THE ULITMATE CUT. There have been other examples of this sort of maneuvering to get people to buy multiple copies of movies. I might be naive and overly hopeful with regard to this matter, but I can't help but suspect that greed is at work here.
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I think it might be more that they're unsure how large the market actually is for the film. Will it sell enough copies to warrant the expense of preparing the restoration? If the theatrical cut doesn't sell very well, at least they don't lose whatever would have been spent in the restoration. If the theatrical cut does sell well, that gives them justification for spending more on the restoration ("Hey, we made our money back, and it looks like enough people are interested in this"). I really don't think the diehard fans would be anywhere near big enough a market by themselves, although we'd like to think so.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that WB wants to sell NODS twice. If this version is successful, I suspect they will follow it up with the restored cut. Look at Watchmen. It was followed by the DIRECTOR'S CUT. I got suckered into buying that, because that was checkmated by THE ULITMATE CUT. There have been other examples of this sort of maneuvering to get people to buy multiple copies of movies. I might be naive and overly hopeful with regard to this matter, but I can't help but suspect that greed is at work here.
To play devil's advocate on the WATCHMEN releases, when this was released on DVD, all the other planned disc releases were announced at that time, so it shouldn't have come as too much of a surprise. That said, the Ultimate Cut is really more of a novelty and an indulgence, than the final word-- that would be the director's cut only...as the Ultimate edits in a 25min separate animated comic story within the story itself, to match something the original comic mini-series did... since the director was given the opportunity to do it.
WB certainly has no plans to release other versions of the DS films at this point in time, though of course, anything can happen.
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My thanks to retzev for his support in both threads.
We need more support in both threads, folks.
Can someone help me obtain screen captures of the cut scenes for my upcoming breakdown? I know there's missing footage in trailers and TV spots and on-set photos and such, but my PC doesn't have a video card or the ability to capture frames. So I must ask for help. I will keep plugging away at both places. Large rez screen captures at 500 kb or higher will be a big help. Use the Private Message function and I will provide an email where you can send them.
Many thanks.
Richard
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MB posted a few on pg 22 that might be useful...
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All I'd ask is that from here on in, if anyone wants to jump in on any of these threads and talk about the possible restoration, please refrain from mentioning my name. I'm starting to feel really uncomfortable about having my name thrown about as much as it is, especially in posts that are critical of the studio, especially since it's something I have particularly shied away from. I don't want to be perceived as a trouble-maker or source of irritation to the WB. Because of the nature of forums and threads, they could very well assume that I'm posting much more critical comments under another name and throwing my name about in an effort to build my name up.
If Warners believes (however incorrectly) that I am antagonistic towards them, then it will erode the slight possibility of a restoration even further, and it will destroy any opportunities I might have of working with them or for them in the future, or any other studio that thinks I have a big mouth. I have to be cognizant of that... Though it's kind of like closing the barn door after the horse has left at this point...
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Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but this was an interesting read:
http://blogs.commercialappeal.com/the_bloodshot_eye/2012/12/dark-shad.html
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While the Watching Project is on its three week long holidays hiatus, the Games boards will almost exclusively focus on screen caps from and set ups for NoDS. And each board has been kicked off tonight with 20 new screen caps and/or set ups on the NoDS Complete this Phrase / Fill in the Blank(s) board and 8 new screen caps on its Caption This! board. Enjoy! [santa_wink]
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Of course I was aware that the opening and closing of NoDS on VHS is boxed - but foolishly it never occurred to me that that may have been something that MGM/UA did for the VHS and it wasn't actually that way when the film was originally released in theaters. Though it should have because obviously the film wasn't released in theaters with a 4X3 aspect ratio, so it couldn't have been boxed that way.
Check out the comparisons below between the VHS and the Blu-Ray (yes, I've figured out a way to get captures from the Blu-ray):
(I've put them in quote boxes simply to give a much better contrast against the background.)
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/no_00024.jpg)
|
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/NO_00012.jpg) |
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/no_01287.jpg)
|
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/NO_11258.jpg) |
This does have me wondering, though, if the boxing might have started with TV showings prior to the release of the VHS. Unfortunately, I taped over my TV copy of NoDS after I bought the VHS, so I have no way to compare the pre-VHS TV showings. Does anyone else still have their copies, or do you remember?
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This does have me wondering, though, if the boxing might have started with TV showings prior to the release of the VHS.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if that were the case, since the purpose of the windowboxing seems to be to ensure that title/credit data is within the "title safe" area so it doesn't get cut off by overscan on television sets. On some sets, the black border may not be seen, because of the overscan.
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I was also thinking that perhaps that might have been a reason. Though perhaps it's odd that MGM/UA didn't do the same for hoDS:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/HO_00006.jpg) |
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/HO_11061.jpg) |
And the interesting thing is that once the opening credits for NoDS become their widest, the credits are no longer boxed:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/no_00041.jpg) |
And though I could see MGM/UA doing the boxing for the closing credits of NoDS because those credits are much more widely spaced than the closing credits for hoDS are:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/HO_11057.jpg) |
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/no_01300.jpg) |
Even without boxing on the Blu-Ray, the black space to the left and right of the credits doesn't seem all that much wider on the VHS than it currently is on the Blu-Ray:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/NO_01275.jpg) |
Who knows? [idontknow]
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the boxing may have been done to make the credits "tv safe" back when all tvs were 4x3. i dont know why they didnt do the same for h.o.d.s. and they didnt do it on the blu ray because now most tvs are 16x9
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Typically, it was usually done to compensate for the over-scanning of older tube televisions. As Joe states, to keep the credits within the "title safe" area. If you compare the end credits of HODS and NODS, you'll see that the text itself has a lot of room on either side in HODS, so there's very little chance of letters or names being cropped off due to overscanning. Apparently they wanted to be doubly sure for NODS, though, to my eye, it still appears in the title safe area.
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though, to my eye, it still appears in the title safe area.
Exactly. I can see where perhaps they wanted to make doubly sure the UPI ticker detailing the Jenkins' deaths didn't get cut off because that does seem just a bit wider than even the closing credits are. But if one shrinks the Blu-ray version of the closing credits to 320 pixels wide and does a comparison between it and the VHS version, do they really look all that different:
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/no_01300.jpg) |
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/NO_01275.jpg) |
Certainly not with a difference as wide as the black boxing used in other parts of the film, so it actually begs the question as to whether or not they even boxed anything from the close of the film apart from the UPI ticker?
And then there's why even box part of the opening credits when no part of it during the boxing seems to have been likely not to have shown on a 4X3 TV, whereas DC's producer/director, which is the widest credit in the opening, wasn't even boxed? [santa_huh]
But of course we weren't in the room when these decisions were made, so how are we to fathom that they did what they did?
But be that as it may, let's move on to something else - namely how I never really ever paid much notice to the sketch that's hanging on the wall near the door when Charles answers the door to Gabriel. And I have no idea how I actually could have paid little attention to it, particularly in the VHS version of the film where it seems to show up more prominently for a longer period of time:
(http://www.dsboards.com/NoDSAnniQuoteImages/Painting_To_Life_Blu-ray_frame_02449.jpg)
(http://www.dsboards.com/NoDSAnniQuoteImages/Painting_To_Life_Laser_frame_02447.jpg)
Apparently one can easily presume that Angelique wasn't always as, uh, overly dressed as she was when she was posing for Charles' unfinished portrait. [santa_grin] And apparently this is yet further proof that no matter how often one watches something (and I've watched NoDS so many time that I lost count long ago) one can still pick up things on even more repeated viewings. [santa_wink]
(ADMIN: Edited to add better images, including a Laser Disc capture)
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If it makes you feel any better, in the entire filmed frame, the nude sketch glimpsed to the right of the above doesn't have Angelique's face on it. It's more of a female body study. There's no head on the sketch-- it ends at the neck...
[santa_cheesy]
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And apparently this is yet further proof that no matter how often one watches something (and I've watched NoDS so many time that I lost count long ago) one can still pick up things on even more repeated viewings. [santa_wink]
And what *I* never seemed to notice so much before was that sexy shot of David's neck! Time to pop that Blu-ray in the player again! [reindeer]
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Oh, I would never want the woman in the sketch to be anyone other than Angelique. And let's face it, did Charles even have a model other than Angelique? It's hard to imagine given all that time that Laura lamented Angelique and Charles spent in the tower together. [santa_wink]
I can definitely see it as some fun, post-coital sketching as Angelique basks in the afterglow. And once the sketch was done, then it was on to round two, round three, or maybe even round ten. Who knows? I'm betting the birds were always getting an eyeful! [santa_cheesy]
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There seems to be more picture information on all four sides of the 4x3. Was NoDS shot open-matte?
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There seems to be more picture information on all four sides of the 4x3. Was NoDS shot open-matte?
Yes- both HODS and NODS were shot open matte, but composed for 1.85. Most 1.85 films were shot that way.
I think the recent DVD transfer is a little too tight on the sides. Not egregiously so, but unnecessarily.
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There seems to be more picture information on all four sides of the 4x3. Was NoDS shot open-matte?
Yes, NODS was shot open matte, but the frames MB posted with the drawing are not identical frames. On the Blu-ray, I went to the same frame that MB posted from the VHS. The Blu-ray has very slightly more picture information on both the left and right sides as compared to the VHS. (And since this seems to confirm that the old video transfer was essentially "open frame", that explains why the DVD that I made from my laserdisc ended up looking pleasantly framed when I would watch it in zoom mode on my widescreen TV. It's essentially what the original intended to look like in the theaters.)
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The old VHS/LD transfer was nearly open matte. It's a 1.33 extraction from the frame, but it's not quite edge to edge. As a result, it doesn't show quite as much on the left and right as is possible, but does show more top and bottom than is meant to be seen. In an overhead shot of Angelique hanging, you can see at the very bottom of the frame the edge of the cherry picker that the camera is on, and in the piano scene at the beginning, you can briefly spot the floor mic poking into frame on the left.
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That's interesting, Darren, about the couple of things appearing in the VHS transfer of NODS. I never caught those! What I very distinctly remember seeing in the CBS Late Movie presentation of HODS in the 1970s was a boom mike appearing a few times. I didn't see those in the VHS release, which obviously tells me that they definitely cropped the picture all the way around on that one.
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Editing the mic out of Dark Shadows? Blasphemy!
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If they were doing it to the original series, it certainly would be blasphemy to edit out the mic! But since it and the other things were never supposed to be seen because the film was never meant to be seen in 4X3, at least it's a different situation with NoDS (and hoDS). [santa_smiley]
I have to say, though, that even though I had noticed while watching the VHS version on my computer (while getting screen caps) that occasionally the edge of something that looked like it might be metal of some sort sneaked into frame at the very bottom of some of the overheard shots during the hanging scene -
(http://www.dsboards.com/images/no_00592.jpg)
- I never would have guessed it was the edge of the cherry picker - and quite honestly more often than not I don't even pay attention to that sort of stuff because I'm too caught up in the story and paying attention to the characters. [santa_wink]
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What I very distinctly remember seeing in the CBS Late Movie presentation of HODS in the 1970s was a boom mike appearing a few times. I didn't see those in the VHS release, which obviously tells me that they definitely cropped the picture all the way around on that one.
The scene I remember most distinctly from older broadcasts (and bootlegs sold at conventions) with boom mics sticking right into the shot was where the Sheriff is handing out bullets in front of the porte cochere. It would have been 1989, so 23 years ago, and way before I knew about things like open matte transfers/etc.
In the old days they would send 16mm prints around the country and show those on a film chain, and that's what was actually broadcast. The 16mm prints were usually a simple reduction print from 35mm, so the framing was identical, so in the 70s and 80s you were constantly watching open matte transfers of 1.85 films with "mistakes" that really weren't... I remember in a shower scene from OH GOD!, you could see that John Denver was wearing underwear (thank heavens!). [8_2_81]
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On the plus side for both HODS and NODS, each includes German, Italian, and Castilian Spanish audio, but not the Latin American Espanol noted on the package. The German and Castilian narrate the scrolling text at the end, but not the Italian which has forced subs, which will be a revelation to Italian speakers who never were privy to what the end text said before.
I have Latino Espanol on mine. scroll over to the arrow and scroll again. I'm looking at it now (the option). But do you mean regular DVD or Blu-Ray -- I have Blu-Ray
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doi....I was looking at the subtitles option.
Neverrrrrmiiiinnnddd.......
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One of the things I really love about NoDS that doesn't always get mentioned is the way the lighting often plays with shadow and even uses shadow integrally to the plot - and this shot here (which was added today to the film's Complete This Phrase / Fill In The Blank(s) board) of Quarles about to attempt to drown Tracy is a perfect example:
(http://www.dsboards.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42918.0;attach=74373)
[thumb]
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Just watched my blue rays on my new wide screen TV.
While watching both of them, I just really felt cheated because of the editing of scenes in both of them especially Night. [snowball]
I'm wondering how the restoration efforts are going for Night, if they are going at all...haven't kept up with this and my recent viewing got me interested again.
I also thought that if anyone had the script, maybe Ms. Parker would endeavor to write a novel of that story to give us the full impact and clear up a few questions..... hint...hint.... [snow_bigglass]
OR...maybe a serious (NOT CAMP) remake of the whole story....
Such a great ghost story ruined by the editor's scissors (not blaming Curtis though)....
Thoughts, yays, nays?
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I can't access the site now because my bosses have blocked it. I wrote a noveliziation (actually it's novella length) of the original script that's gotten some good feedback. You can find it at www.fanfiction.net , just do a search for Night of Dark Shadows. I added very little to what was written. There were a couple of scenes that I felt needed a bit of filling in. For example, there's a reference to bodies being buried. I felt that needed to be fleshed out. Anyway, if you want to check it out its on the www.fanfiction.net site.
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I wrote a noveliziation (actually it's novella length) of the original script that's gotten some good feedback.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10083233/1/Night-of-Dark-Shadows
It's nicely done!
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https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10083233/1/Night-of-Dark-Shadows
It's nicely done!
Thank you! That project was started in the 80s and scrapped when I learned how much was cut from the movie. My rough draft was made using an audio tape and VHS copy of a broadcast on TBS. When I learned that the restored version was not likely to see the light of day anytime soon, I decided to resurrect the project. I've received some nice feedback on it.
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Interesting review (done as a kind of memory piece) of hoDS:
http://webelongdead.co.uk/the-house-of-dark-shadows/
G.
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Listing for the hoDS DVD at the Santa Clara County Library Disctrict (https://sccl.bibliocommons.com/item/show/418784118_house_of_dark_shadows) Web site.
Roger Davis listed first - seriously?
No listing of Grayson Hall - SERIOUSLY?!
And I'm suspecting that jimg2000 is not a member of any of the Facebook groups that despise the Depp/DS film...
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Oh, the depravity.
G.
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This is interesting because I would never think to look for the hoDS DVD in Staples or on their Web site:
Shop Staples for great deals on House of Dark Shadows (DVD) (https://www.staples.ca/en/house-of-dark-shadows-dvd/product_982758_1-CA_1_20001)
Though their idea of "great deals" isn't quite that great compared to Amazon...
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This person is obviously not an hoDS fan:
CinemaCats's review: House of Dark Shadows 1970 ☆˝. Watched Aug 22, 2019 (https://letterboxd.com/cinemacats/film/house-of-dark-shadows/)
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It looks like DS related laserdiscs are coming out of the woodwork on eBay:
House Of Dark Shadows / Night Of Dark Shadows - 12" Laserdisc (https://www.ebay.com/itm/House-Of-Dark-Shadows-Night-Of-Dark-Shadows-12-Laserdisc/143355632060?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3Dfde1c675a79b49e28396d56f15b26195%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D113870425905%26itm%3D143355632060%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1)
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It's nice to see that some libraies are at least stocking the NoDS DVD for their patrons:
Night of dark shadows (https://www.hcpl.net/title-record/363958)
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Apparently Dana Gould is a big hoDS fan:
Dana Gould On His Upcoming Plan 9 From Outer Space Live Stage Reading (https://411mania.com/movies/dana-gould-on-his-upcoming-plan-9-from-outer-space-live-stage-reading/)
That might also explain why he's also a big fan of Plan 9 From Outer Space... [tngg]
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Not sure what language this site is written in (Chrome will normally ask if I want to translate and also tell me the language it's translating from, but not this time) -
House of Dark Shadows (https://streamingguiden.filmweb.no/movies/74800/HouseofDarkShadows/)
- but it's always interesting to see that the '70s films are available in other countries...
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I think it's Danish. Nice that they are hosting the film.
G.
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Close. I decided to try checking it out, and while it said Danish for one word, other words and the longer phrases came up as Norwegian.
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House Of Dark Shadows (https://sbooks.best/downloads/House-Of-Dark-Shadows.pdf)
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It said "members only area" when I clicked. Nice to see the film getting more attention.
G.
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Night of Dark Shadows 1971 (https://www.torreckt.com/movies/night-of-dark-shadows-1971)
Who knows what language this is in? But your browser should ask if you'd like to translate it. Mine does...
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Looks like Arabic, MB. Interesting...
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I tried Google Translate and yes, it comes up Arabic.
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Now Watch House of Dark Shadows (1970) Online (http://carrierovermovie.over-blog.com/tpk0eju3adotf)
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House of Dark Shadows, 1970
Caroline Collins (Nancy Barrett) appearing as a vampire to terrorize David Collins (David Henesy) in House of Dark Shadows 1970. (Photo by Ben Martin/Getty Images) (https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/caroline-collins-appearing-as-a-vampire-to-terrorize-david-news-photo/1132488890)
Caroline? Though it may actually say that somewhere on the photo. Movie publicity isn't above shooting itself in the foot...
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I'm sure that was never released as a pub photo. You can see the stagehand holding the end of her train. I think this photo first surfaced just a couple of years ago. It must have been from a still photographer's archive... I have no idea whether Getty really has legal ownership of that image.
G.
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It's in one of the PomPress books. I think it's actually the original My Scrapbook Memories. But of course for that KLS would have gotten it directly from Ben Martin...
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I have no idea where this -
House of Dark Shadows (1970) - A Century of Horror & Sci-Fi - card no. 552 (https://www.pinterest.it/pin/458804280788426603/?amp_client_id=CLIENT_ID(_)&mweb_unauth_id={{default.session}}&from_amp_pin_page=true)
-came from. If someone online just made them up or if it's actually from a real card collection that can be bought, but it's interesting...
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Fanpop: Grayson Hall "House of Dark Shadows" (1970) collage (https://www.fanpop.com/clubs/grayson-hall/images/23729101/title/house-dark-shadows-1970-collage-screencap)
An interesting combination of stills and screen caps...
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Many NoDS (and a few non-NoDS) photos:
Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs tagged as #Night of Dark Shadows (https://www.tumgir.com/tag/Night%20of%20Dark%20Shadows)
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House of Dark Shadows (1970) (https://bandsaboutmovies.com/2020/03/23/house-of-dark-shadows-1970/)
Night of Dark Shadows (1971) (https://bandsaboutmovies.com/2020/03/24/night-of-dark-shadows-1971/?fbclid=IwAR18XaJT2nAS-UF2b3vFIaXuHQr8xxiN2ZX_MLVsfs_IbEaoimXlPEFXwm8)
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I don't know if I've ever seen this NoDS still:
Pinterest: Kate Jackson as Tracy Collins in the 1971 movie, Night of Dark Shadows! (https://www.pinterest.dk/pin/388224430370811772/)
I've seen many of her on horseback - but I'm not sure if I've ever seen this one of her dismounting...
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I've always loved this still of VampCarolyn from hoDS:
Pinterest: House of Dark Shadows (1970) (https://www.pinterest.ru/pin/214202525999546510/)
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I don't know if I've ever seen this NoDS still:
Pinterest: Kate Jackson as Tracy Collins in the 1971 movie, Night of Dark Shadows! (https://www.pinterest.dk/pin/388224430370811772/)
I've seen many of her on horseback - but I'm not sure if I've ever seen this one of her dismounting...
Is that a still or a screen capture from the film? I'm fairly certain I've never seen it either.
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Being that it's in B&W and most of the stills I've seen from that scene are also B&W, I presumed it's also a still from the same photo B&W shoot. But who knows? Though, one might think a screen caps would be in color. I can't say I've ever seen someone greyscale a color screen cap just for the fun of it. But I suppose there's always a first time. Maybe someone wanted to be arty...
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Duh! [6184] I don't know why I didn't think of this in the first place - I pulled out my blu-ray and checked the scene and it's shot from a different angle than that photo, so it can't be a screen cap...
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Being that it's in B&W and most of the stills I've seen from that scene are also B&W, I presumed it's also a still from the same photo B&W shoot. But who knows? Though, one might think a screen caps would be in color. I can't say I've ever seen someone greyscale a color screen cap just for the fun of it. But I suppose there's always a first time. Maybe someone wanted to be arty...
I hadn't thought of that. It seems unlikely that someone would convert a screenshot to BW.
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[pointing-up] Truthfully, though, we probably shouldn't second-guess what someone might do because sooner or later you're likely to come across it! [ghost_wink]
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Pinterest: Pin on House of Dark Shadows (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/587016132671064689/)
Poor Roger...
Actually, given his personality, can you even imagine what Roger would be like as a vampire?! It's a real shame we never got to see...
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I just noticed on my DVR's schedule that the two original DS films will be on Movies!:
July 3
1:30PM ET- House of Dark Shadows
3:45PM ET- Night of Dark Shadows
Apparently the various Turner networks no longer have exclusive rights to the films...
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John Karlen and Nancy Barrett in Night of Dark Shadows (https://www.twaku.com/76_jeanette/tweet/1133713899230978048)
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Apparently there will be several showings. I just checked out the MOVIES! Web site and discovered these listings:
HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS (https://moviestvnetwork.com/movies/1764)
NIGHT OF DARK SHADOWS (https://moviestvnetwork.com/movies/1765)
I love the color version of that hoDS poster...
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Hmmm - I not sure if I've even seen this still. I've definitely seen the one in which Barnabas in included with them - but I don't know if I've seen the one with only the two ladies:
Pinterest: Pin on House of Dark Shadows (https://www.pinterest.de/pin/587016132671787921/)
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I'm not quite sure if I've ever seen this particular behind the scenes hoDS still before:
Pinterest: Pin by Rob on House Of Dark Shadows (https://www.pinterest.de/pin/3518505944460532/)
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I don't know if this is fan created or if it's official. But if it's official, I've never seen it.
Pinterest: Vintage. House of Dark Shadows (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/545287467387754621/)
The fact that it say "vintage" makes me want to think it's official. But who knows? Though it's definitely not from the hoDS Pressbook...
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A NoDS art print:
ANGELIQUE (https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-DARK-SHADOWS-TV-SHOW-ANGELIQUE-4-ACTUAL-DRAWINGS/254627469700?_trkparms=aid%3D1110012%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOIPOST%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818142836%26meid%3Ddc3e35b3fdc44e48be824a85099e5322%26pid%3D101197%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D254685616079%26itm%3D254627469700%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2&_trksid=p2047675.c101197.m1850)
It's nice. And one rarely sees NoDS art work. But I wouldn't pay $45 for it.
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‘House of Dark Shadows’ (1970) Continues to Enthrall After 50 Years – Retro Review (https://www.pophorror.com/house-of-dark-shadows-1970-continues-to-enthrall-after-50-years-retro-review/)
Love the behind-the-scenes photo of Frid and Hall probably rehearsing. One tends to forget there are so many people around while working on such intense scenes. It's a testament to actors that they can tune out what's around them and behave as if their scene partners are the only ones around...
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Turner Classic Movies Reveals Impressive Schedule of Horror Movies for Halloween (https://comicbook.com/movies/news/turner-classic-movies-halloween-horror-movies-schedule/)
Sunday, October 18th
1:45 a.m. ET – The Fearless Vampire Killers (1966)
3:45 a.m. ET – House of Dark Shadows (1970)
What a flashback to 1970 that is for me because that double bill was exactly how I saw hoDS in 1970!!
Thursday, October 29th
2:15 p.m. ET – Night of Dark Shadows (1971)
(On the other hand, I always saw NoDS with hoDS.)