DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '02 I => Topic started by: Dr. Eric Lang on June 20, 2002, 02:32:44 AM
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That tacky shot of Nicholas and Cassandra standing in front of the slide of Seaview Terrace was without question one of the cheapest, tackiest, cheesiest looking shots ever on this show! I guess it didn't phase them a bit to chromakey these two figures in front of their stock photo but how cheap looking was that?
This is the sort of thing I was used to seeing on those live-action Saturday morning shows like Electra Woman and Dyna Girl. Perhaps at the time they found the effect satisfactory rather than laughable.
What are your favorite cheap shots? My other favorite was the one where Amanda saw the big fake looking spider in "Hades."
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That tacky shot of Nicholas and Cassandra standing in front of the slide of Seaview Terrace was without question one of the cheapest, tackiest, cheesiest looking shots ever on this show! I guess it didn't phase them a bit to chromakey these two figures in front of their stock photo but how cheap looking was that?
But it was still glorious color television! Most of us at the time were still too much in awe that DS was one of the few soaps being broadcast in color to care about it's technical flaws. We had a 1960 RCA color tv with vacuum tubes and as good as it was at the time, it was certainly no Sony Trinitron which would reveal all such anomalies. No other show at the time even made the effort to be that creative.
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Ummmm, weren't those state of the art special effects? Looked pretty good compared to Lost in Space!
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Ummmm, weren't those state of the art special effects?
They were cutting edge for the time.
In many ways, DS was inventing video techniques that many other shows would eventually utilize. 8)
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They were cutting edge for the time.
In many ways, DS was inventing video techniques that many other shows would eventually utilize. 8)
When I began studying Television Production in the 1970's, the studio where Freshmen took their first classes was probably an exact replica of the production studios DS was using in the 60's. (If you didn't break anything you moved up to the new studios in Sophmore year ;) )
You can't BEGIN to imagine how primative those conditions were compared to today. ANY special effect of any sort was the result of someone's sheer genius, artistic talents, and determination, because the 'technical' effects were virtually non-existant!
We're talking about 'if you want an earthquake you gotta shake the camera' special effects here, kids!
If you could travel back in time and bring your little Sony videocams into that studio, they'd have worshipped you as a god! [lghy]
Raineypark
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It worked for me, I liked it! :)
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That shot of Nicholas and Cassandra wasn't the best, but it certainly beat the scene from 1897 when Laura, Tim, and Nora are fleeing the fire at Worthington Hall. I think the crew must have set a cardboard house on fire and made the actors run past it. Perhaps the house was supposed to be in the distance, and that's why it was out of proportion.
Another ill-timed effect was when Barnabas changed from a bat to a man in front of Dr. Woodard; the bat can still be seen through the window after Barnabas has materialized.
Negatives aside, I have been impressed with some of the recent special effects: Cassandra and Trask materializing at the tree and in the wall. I felt that those came through unusually smoothly (no bouncing.) Later in the serieis, the shot of Lady Kitty and Josette's portrait also looked pretty impressive. Thank you, Mysterious Benefactor and Rainey, for sharing your information on the video techniques of the day. I feel better knowing that DS was honestly trying its best, even as much as its special effects are derided today.
ProfStokes
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if you are looking for perfection, this is not the show for you lol..... 8)..to me, thats all a part of the show, sure, some of them are ridiculous, but, when the show was airing, i was the first one off the bus getting to the tv..and it seems this show only gets better with age..and in this age of movies that have all special effects and very little substance, its a refreshing change,even with its glitches...hey, next week, that great scene, when nicholas turns angeliques hand into a skeleton hand, comes on :o....i am sure when i seen that the first time, i said "thats so fake"..but by that time, i was hooked, what with great plots and unintentional humor, it sure beat the rerun cartoons that was showing at the time
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Thank you, Mysterious Benefactor and Rainey, for sharing your information on the video techniques of the day. I feel better knowing that DS was honestly trying its best, even as much as its special effects are derided today.
ProfStokes
I agree Prof.Stokes and with DS having to deal with such a low budget, Im sure they felt they did the best they could.
As for cheesy effects, I would have to say all the fire scenes, especially the one in Vicky's room during 1795 when Trask was perfoming his so called exorcism. The fire was burning right in front of Vicky and still she hadn't noticed it. Then when she finally sees it, she tries to put it out by throwing a blanket over it, only the blanket was on the side of the fire, instead of on top of it, yet it still went out.
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The worst special effect on DS has to be the cardboard shadow.
But believe me, back then, all these special effects, cheesy as they appear today, were amazing and unique, and we WERE impressed!
Love, Robin.
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That shot of Nicholas and Cassandra wasn't the best, but it certainly beat the scene from 1897 when Laura, Tim, and Nora are fleeing the fire at Worthington Hall. I think the crew must have set a cardboard house on fire and made the actors run past it. Perhaps the house was supposed to be in the distance, and that's why it was out of proportion.
I was going to mention that one as my favorite "cheese"! Actually, when I first saw that scene as a kid, it looked so realistic to me, which indicates how "cutting edge" such ef-ex were at that time. Today, of course, we're almost "de-sensitized" from movie to movie, or from program to program. I was not a fan of the first chapter of the Star Wars movies that came out a couple of years ago, one of the reasons being the special ef-ex. All those computer-generated things (especially that annoying rabbit-duck creature) looked like pure animation to me, as if I was watching a sequel to Roger Rabbit.
And even some things they do today are no different from the "cutting edge" of Dark Shadows. A friend of mine watches "Passions", so I see clips of it every once in a while. There is this disembodied head which talks to the woman playing the witch who starred in "Nanny and the Professor". It looks absolutely no different from the disembodied heads and other anatomical parts we saw on DS more than 30 years ago. It's just a superimposed, two-dimensional thing and nothing more.
Gerard
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i think Ds was pretty good for it time We liked it!
when you look back to some of those old movies then,
for example the other day Dean Martin was driving a car and you could tell he really was just sitting in it singing as they moved scenes outside the car to make it look like they were driving(sometimes if you looked closely
the scenes repeated LOL) and of course he was looking at the girl not the road the whole time But guess he was one cool dude[coolb]
the funny thing about the shadow was Jeb's reaction to it!
jennifer
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I view the special effects missteps in two ways. First, I appreciate that, for the most part, they were ambitious and cutting edge for a daytime serial of that era. When they succeeded, it was magic. Perhaps the reason they look so primitive and tacky today is because of how far the state-of-the-art has progressed since then -- but in many instances, DS was the first to attempt it, and perhaps the show that inspired latter generations to develop and refine its technique. I'm reminded of a PBS documentary about silent film star Buster Keaton, which explored how he was the first to attempt effects that are considered old hat today. But he was the first! I'm always fascinated to explore early, raw genius, without all the refinement.
Second, as a forgiving fan, I strongly feel that these instances of imperfection contribute to the charm of the show. I'm not sure how high the level of enduring affection would be for DS, had the effects and the actors' delivery always achieved perfection.
Gerard, I still had a B&W set in the '60s (and most of the '70s), so some effects that might have appeared more obviously tacky in color were lost on me.
It's my understanding that DS was not a low budget show in every respect. I seem to recall hearing that much money was in fact spent on special effects and costumes, so that in many instances (with obvious exceptions), the special effects weren't cheap as much as primitive. Can someone clarify?
Yes, Robin V, that shadow stretched believability. I howl at how its "victims" were so afraid of it, resisting the temptation to yell at my TV set, "Why are you screaming at a cardboard shadow?"
That shot of Nicholas and Cassandra wasn't the best, but it certainly beat the scene from 1897 when Laura, Tim, and Nora are fleeing the fire at Worthington Hall. I think the crew must have set a cardboard house on fire and made the actors run past it. Perhaps the house was supposed to be in the distance, and that's why it was out of proportion. ProfStokes
Very funny, ProfStokes! In addition, I chuckle at how (if I recall correctly) the next scene was back at Collinwood -- several miles away from Worthington Hall -- yet the actors were trying so nonchalantly to ignore all the smoke that had wafted into the foyer and drawing room sets.
Ben
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I grew up watching it, Ben, in b&w, too, and I imagine that in the grey shades of b&w, many of the effects did appear to be so much better than in color. I remember the first season of "Lost In Space" was also in b&w, and the special ef-ex were of far greater quality in appearance than the ones used in the next two color seasons.
On Dark Shadows, there were also some ef-ex scenes of exceptional quality. The one of Josette's ghost walking out of her portrait comes to mind. It was flawless. And just the other day, the ghost of Rev. Trask appearing in place of (superimposed over) his skeleton was also very well done, considering they had to line up the blue screen precisely with the zig-zag outline of the bricks. It matched perfectly.
Like I said in my previous post, even many of today's special f-x are not without their problems. Many of the computer-generated ones look absolutely phoney, like animation. Some are well done, others are not. I remember when the updated American version of "Godzilla" came out a few years ago. I've always been a big Godzilla fan, but that movie put me right to sleep. Furthermore, whenever they used the computer generated giant iguana (they made Godzilla a radiation-mutated iguana!), it looked about as real as the cartoon penguins that danced with Julie Andrews and Dick Van Dyke in "Mary Poppins". However, when they utilized the good, old-fashioned miniature puppet in certain scenes, it looked real.
Gerard
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Oh, I *love* that shot of Nicholas and Cassandra outside the house. I majorly groove on the psychedelic color scheme of Cassandra's nightmare butterfly peignoir (of course, I LOVE IT that she rematerialized still wearing that thing--can't you just hear all the demons snickering away down in the Inferno when she turned up in that outfit), especially as imprinted upon the weird electric blue color scheme of the house. It's really trippy!
My nomination for the worst special effect on DS has to be the use of a still of Dennis Patrick having some sort of bizarre fit which was inserted at a key moment because the actor was not available for the episode. That was one script that needed a rewrite because the work-around they came up with was simply ludicrous, even by DS standards.
Robin's right, though, that a lot of us kids who watched the show believed EVERYTHING we saw way back in the day. It didn't take much to impress us back then. My sister had nightmares for weeks because of the scene involving the spell Nicky puts on Cassandra's hand, mentioned in a post above.
Thanks to Raineypark for the fascinating post about conditions inside a typical TV production studio of the 1970s. Great stuff!
Steve
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I hope I didn't offend anyone by making fun of the special effects! "Cheap Shot" was just a play on words. Like all of you I'm more interested in the story than in the effects and I overlook these things. I realize that given the technology for the day what they were able to accomplish was really quite impressive.
You can't BEGIN to imagine how primative those conditions were compared to today. ANY special effect of any sort was the result of someone's sheer genius, artistic talents, and determination, because the 'technical' effects were virtually non-existant!
Yup - I took a media class in the mid-70's too. The old-fashioned, enormous video cams that only filmed in black and white and who ever heard of cordless in those days? LOL!
That shot of Nicholas and Cassandra wasn't the best, but it certainly beat the scene from 1897 when Laura, Tim, and Nora are fleeing the fire at Worthington Hall.
Thank you, ProfStokes! I remember that one too! I think you're right - that one has the Cass/Nicholas shot beat all to heck!
As for cheesy effects, I would have to say all the fire scenes, especially the one in Vicky's room during 1795 when Trask was perfoming his so called exorcism. The fire was burning right in front of Vicky and still she hadn't noticed it. Then when she finally sees it, she tries to put it out by throwing a blanket over it, only the blanket was on the side of the fire, instead of on top of it, yet it still went out.
Yup, Cassandra - most superimposed fire scenes have been pretty bad. I remember once scene where a house was on fire (this may be the same scene ProfStokes was talking about, or possibly another) and you could tell the flames were shot in extreme close-up, so they looked pretty bad.
The worst special effect on DS has to be the cardboard shadow.
But believe me, back then, all these special effects, cheesy as they appear today, were amazing and unique, and we WERE impressed!
Love, Robin.
Whenever I think about that puppet shadow thing I find myself singing that Cat Stevens song "I'm being followed by a puppet shadow . . . puppet shadow, puppet shadow."
And even some things they do today are no different from the "cutting edge" of Dark Shadows. A friend of mine watches "Passions", so I see clips of it every once in a while. There is this disembodied head which talks to the woman playing the witch who starred in "Nanny and the Professor".
I saw that too when I was flipping by the channels. Talk about a Saturday morning cartoon . . . (no offense to you Passions fans out there)
Very funny, ProfStokes! In addition, I chuckle at how (if I recall correctly) the next scene was back at Collinwood -- several miles away from Worthington Hall -- yet the actors were trying so nonchalantly to ignore all the smoke that had wafted into the foyer and drawing room sets.
That reminds me of when Jeff had the dream curse - he woke up in the Evans Cottage but the room was filled with dry ice which had spilled over from the dream set!
I grew up watching it, Ben, in b&w, too, and I imagine that in the grey shades of b&w, many of the effects did appear to be so much better than in color. I remember the first season of "Lost In Space" was also in b&w, and the special ef-ex were of far greater quality in appearance than the ones used in the next two color seasons.
On Dark Shadows, there were also some ef-ex scenes of exceptional quality. The one of Josette's ghost walking out of her portrait comes to mind. It was flawless. And just the other day, the ghost of Rev. Trask appearing in place of (superimposed over) his skeleton was also very well done, considering they had to line up the blue screen precisely with the zig-zag outline of the bricks. It matched perfectly.
I agree - the black and white shows looked much more impressive. The sets looked more realistic too. The first appearance of Josette you described must have really tickled Dan Curtis - he used it at least 3 or times. It was definitely memorable for the RIGHT reasons!
My sister had nightmares for weeks because of the scene involving the spell Nicky puts on Cassandra's hand, mentioned in a post above.
Actually, that's one of the more impressive special effects - and it STILL creeps me out to think about it. One area where DS had good success is with the aging makeup they used on Barnabas and Cassandra - very impressive stuff!
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Oh Gothick I recall that Dennis Patrick scene you are talking about... SPOILER>...
From the 1970 Leviathon eps, Megan and Jeb decide to open Paul Stodard's coffin to destroy the body and DP's smiling face greets them. I don't know how Marie Wallace spat out the words..."Jeb..he's laughing at you!" Priceless...
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Most of the effects don't bother me. Sometimes one can see an obvious inaccuracy, but it's usually relatively slight. The main effect is there and the point comes across.
I never minded the shadow, either. For one thing, she creates it by making the cutout - so it IS supposed to look like that. As they make it grow and given the significance of what it's supposed to be, I always thought it served it's purpose and wasn't as bad as everyone else seems to think.
However, I had forgotten about that face of Paul Stoddard. That really was a funny one and definitely qualifies as a "cheap shot."
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It might be interesting to adjust your tv to b&w while watching the color episodes -- just to see if it's an improvement! :)
I've always wondered what the show would have been like if they had decided to go b&w all the way and had the art direction reflect this -- now that would have been creepy! :o After all, it's all about dark shadows.
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>>You can't BEGIN to imagine how primative those conditions were compared to today. ANY special effect of any sort was the result of someone's sheer genius, artistic talents, and determination, because the 'technical' effects were virtually non-existant!<<
Technically, this says it all very well Raineypark! [thumb]
As far as being able to overlook the way it looks today - for me it's kind of like this. When I was in my teens and 20's I remember wondering just how people who grew up during the heyday of radio could have enjoyed that medium so much. No bells, no whistles just sound and...their young, fertile imaginations!
Looking back from 2002 at my own huge and continued enthusiasm for DS I can better relate to my parents generation's love of things like "The Shadow". With DS, it wasn't so much what it looked like as where it was able to inspire my imagination to go. In the long run (IMO) that kind of thing is always more about writing and acting than it ever is special effects. Not that I mind special effects - actually get into them on a certain level - but I do think they've sort of jaded my pallet over the years so to speak.
I enjoy re-watching DS because it makes me remember a time when I could not only believe that the walls of Collinwood were real, but could trancend those walls and imagine all sorts of wonderful and strange things beyond them.
If you could travel back in time and bring your little Sony videocams into that studio, they'd have worshipped you as a god! [lghy]
LOL! How true! [lghy]
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(I)f you are looking for perfection, this is not the show for you...lol
But part of the fun of DS--IMO--is rooting for the actors to get through scenes when things go very wrong; like when TLATKLS lost her earring in a scene with Joel Crothers where they were ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT the earrings! Loved how she subtly covered her ear...like we all didn't see it fall off!
We all have our favorite actors/characters (see the "Breaking & Entering" thread ;)), but when it all goes south, I like to cheer for everyone to make it through...