DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '07 I => Topic started by: loril54 on May 09, 2007, 12:48:48 AM
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I have a feeling that they had some relationship. Maybe they really did get involved with some dope and had some wild partys. You know those medical students.
Everybody like DR Dave, but maybe he is also hiding out in Collinsport.
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In all seriousness, I always felt that Woodard & Hoffman had a med school affair.
Long in the past by 1967, they were still quite close & had a lot of affection/respect for each other.
Grayson & Gerringer sure played it that way, in my view!
David
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Well I'm not sure they played it as a romantic relationship. . .Julia pre-Barn was a pretty stiff character, devoted solely to her hospital and work. Dave kidded her about being interested in Barn and Grayson's physical brustling at the suggestion is classic IMO. She did know how to flirt, she did so mercilessly with Barn and a bit with Dave--but that was to keep or get control of the situation.
Julia said she and Dave knew each other in med school, they were the top students . .. Dave raved about her brilliance (okay before she was cast as a *she*). I can see that he may have had a yen for her but I think she kept it at bay because she didn't want or know how to deal with romance (as later evidenced by her awkward relationship with early Barn). Flirting to get her way. . .not a problem .. full blown romance. . .a problem. Her grief at his murder is explainable as longtime friends and her own horror at her lapsing morality. .
But then again I argued controversially on the JuliaList that Julia was NOT a virgin. . . Why did I or do I believe that? People cited as proof positive of virginity that she had some quite awkward moments with Barn. . I say "hey I didn't say she had a good lover. . just that Dr Julia Hoffman was too curious about stuff to not try it once . .I see her thinking she should figure out why her friends were acting weird abotu love and romance, tries it and think-- 'eh what the fuss that wasn't so great' (which most women think the first time). So she tried it, didn't get crazy by it and marched onto her own drum until she slammed right into our hero. . . [artist] [artist]
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I've read fanfic that cast medical-school Julia and Dave as lovers, but re-watching quite a bit of their storyline last year, I don't feel that it really adds up in how their story was played in Canon. I think Julia may have intimidated Dave a bit just because she was so brilliant. She was also extremely caustic and short-tempered (except for when she put on the Niceness Wig when she was trying to get something out of somebody, such as Liz). I'm talking now about the original Julia characterization.
I do think that Dave's death was a horrible turning-point for Julia... in the ORIGINAL '67 storyline. "You no longer have any friends, Julia," rang hideously true for her. I don't think we need to presume a former romantic attachment between them to explicate the horror she feels at her implication in Dave's death. I think it was a major wake-up call for her... the logical conclusion to it was when she informed the family that everything David had said was TRUE.
Julia's character is written very inconsistently during the weeks leading up to 1795 but I'm usually so dazzled by the brilliance of Grayson's thesping that I suspend disbelief. Her behavior on the two days of Barn's aging, for example, is very contradictory. But then, as some wag of the 18th century once wrote, "la donna e mobile" (really explains nothing but is a very pretty conceit).
cheers, G.
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She did know how to flirt, she did so mercilessly with Barn and a bit with Dave--but that was to keep or get control of the situation.
Absolutely....
Julia does have her witty, smart and somewhat evil side. Which is why I luv her. ^-^
I'll always remember the scene where Julia flashes dave some leg as she attempts to get him off her trail so to speak, and he looks at her and says: "....are you sure this isn't another tactic to keep me quiet?" >:D
Okay, I took that partly out of context, but still...
But then again I argued controversially on the JuliaList that Julia was NOT a virgin. . . Why did I or do I believe that? People cited as proof positive of virginity that she had some quite awkward moments with Barn. . I say "hey I didn't say she had a good lover. . just that Dr Julia Hoffman was too curious about stuff to not try it once
I have to agree. I just don't see Julia as a virgin. No freakin' way....
But as you might guess, I've read the arguments for both sides of that hot topic [cough]. I think its an interesting fodder for fanfic either way though. Hey, I'm a gemini...I have two minds about a lot of things... >:D
I've read fanfic that cast medical-school Julia and Dave as lovers, but re-watching quite a bit of their storyline last year, I don't feel that it really adds up in how their story was played in Canon. I think Julia may have intimidated Dave a bit just because she was so brilliant.
Omg - yes!
She was also extremely caustic and short-tempered (except for when she put on the Niceness Wig when she was trying to get something out of somebody, such as Liz).
So was this the real ticket to her staying at Collinwood? Did Liz and Julia play 'catch the wig' after hours at the big house?
[j/k....cough]
I do think that Dave's death was a horrible turning-point for Julia... in the ORIGINAL '67 storyline. "You no longer have any friends, Julia," rang hideously true for her. I don't think we need to presume a former romantic attachment between them to explicate the horror she feels at her implication in Dave's death.
Yup....
I can see how some might think that romantic sparks may have occurred between Dave W. And Jules way back, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and whatnot, but after some deep soul searching [cough] I personally don't see it either. In fact, I wrote a story a couple years ago touching on this subject in a sense...basically I had this wild idea that Julia had a discrete and brief affair with an older doctor/mentor when she was a resident; and a controversial incident surrounding that cemented Dave and Julia's friendship...
The rest is on the JuliaList. :-X
But then, as some wag of the 18th century once wrote, "la donna e mobile" (really explains nothing but is a very pretty conceit).
I learn something new every time i read the posts over here...rock on G, and all.
Okay, back to work... xo
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A very, very long time ago, a DS fan (and I apologize to this person for not remembering who he is!) told me that he was writing fan fiction that portrayed Julia Hoffman & Dave Woodard as INMATES at Wyndcliffe! Along with the other patients, they killed the staff & took control of the asylum, eventually becoming the doctors & nurses, etc. themselves. I'm not sure how he was going to explain Woodard's later behavior, but I always thought that was an intriguing theory!
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Welcome markyboo, now that would have been interesting. It would only be Julia and Woddard 2 having an affair, the other 2, one and three, no way.
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Did Liz and Julia play 'catch the wig' after hours at the big house?
Just trying to picture that is hysterically funny. [stfl]
And welcome markyboo! Hopefully we'll see many more posts from you. :)
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But then again I argued controversially on the JuliaList that Julia was NOT a virgin. . . Why did I or do I believe that? People cited as proof positive of virginity that she had some quite awkward moments with Barn. . I say "hey I didn't say she had a good lover. . just that Dr Julia Hoffman was too curious about stuff to not try it once
I have to agree. I just don't see Julia as a virgin. No freakin' way....
But as you might guess, I've read the arguments for both sides of that hot topic [cough]. I think its an interesting fodder for fanfic either way though. Hey, I'm a gemini...I have two minds about a lot of things... >:D
Let my point be clear . .I don't think she was any sexual provocateur either . .I think she would've tried it out of curiosity, dismissed it as stupid/barbarian/insane and moved on. I don't think she had 'experience' as a seductress or anything like that--she saw flirting as a way to an end. . . so she used it. She probably stumbled upon it by accident since she was so piqued about being dismissed by so many (professors) due to her gender. Or maybe her mother was kinda trampy . . . >:D and she saw how it helped her Ma out. .well we just don't know in this made up fictional universe. . . :P
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Let my point be clear . .I don't think she was any sexual provocateur either . .I think she would've tried it out of curiosity, dismissed it as stupid/barbarian/insane and moved on. I don't think she had 'experience' as a seductress or anything like that--she saw flirting as a way to an end. . . so she used it. She probably stumbled upon it by accident since she was so piqued about being dismissed by so many (professors) due to her gender. Or maybe her mother was kinda trampy . . . >:D and she saw how it helped her Ma out. .
I stand corrected. Intriguing theories...
I just wanted to say that I wasn't trying to infer that you thought Julia was a seductress, but that I agree that she was unlikely a virgin. I'd also imagine she read a few books in her time too about...various subjects.
Even in my most wild fanfic brainstorms [well, the ones where I've kept Julia in character ::rolling eyes at self::] I also don't see Julia as the type who would have used sex in such a way [okay I've written my fair share of B&J smut, but that's a totally different subject... >:D], but yeah the flirting factor was definitely there. We all have theories about her background, but I see her as someone who did what they could to pull themselves out of the life they grew up with, very goal oriented, determined, stubborn, she fell back on her studies and pursuits as a means to survive, and make something of her life. Her work became, and was, her life. If flirting and flattery helped now and then along the way, there you go...
well we just don't know in this made up fictional universe. . . :P
But come hell or high water I'm determined to find out... ;) Futile quest I know, but now my creative writing gears are turning...
be afraid J99, be very afraid. ;D :-*
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I stand corrected. Intriguing theories...
I just wanted to say that I wasn't trying to infer that you thought Julia was a seductress, but that I agree that she was unlikely a virgin.
I didn't particularly mean to infer you'd changed the meaning of my comment, I just intended to clarify my POV.
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A very, very long time ago, a DS fan (and I apologize to this person for not remembering who he is!) told me that he was writing fan fiction that portrayed Julia Hoffman & Dave Woodard as INMATES at Wyndcliffe! Along with the other patients, they killed the staff & took control of the asylum, eventually becoming the doctors & nurses, etc. themselves. I'm not sure how he was going to explain Woodard's later behavior, but I always thought that was an intriguing theory!
That was a Hammer movie whose name I forget, but Barry Morse, Barbara Parkins, and Clouseau's boss were in it.
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This is my theory on the Julia and Dave friendship. I believe that Julia was #1 in the graduating class and Dave was #2. They were friends throughout school and Dave's friendship rescued her from a shattered relationship with a married Prof. A Prof who while appreciating a star pupil's eagerness to excel as a student, also saw an opportunity to exploit a possibly 'love starved' young woman who was awkward and shy around attractive men. I think she and Dave go way back and perhaps at one time, Dave wanted more of the relationship but Julia never picked up on it. When Julia ran to Dave after the romance with the Prof fell through, she was too blinded to see him as a love interest and he was to conscientious to take advantage of her.
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If Julia and Dave was number 1 and 2 how did they end up in Maine, not saying that Maine is a bad place, but isn't it out of the way. Or what Med School did they go to?? Did they get in trouble by doing things they shouldn't have done??
I know that Julia has her hospital, but what about Dave, did he run the Collinsport Hospital?? Just a strange idea.
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If Julia and Dave was number 1 and 2 how did they end up in Maine, not saying that Maine is a bad place, but isn't it out of the way. Or what Med School did they go to?? Did they get in trouble by doing things they shouldn't have done??
I know that Julia has her hospital, but what about Dave, did he run the Collinsport Hospital?? Just a strange idea.
Well we don't know **where** they went to med school. . U of Bangor or something ???! Also, I think Julia stated to Barnabas early on that she wasn't taken too seriously in med school and that Dave was seen as the brighter student. .then Barn did a classic manipulation thing. . anyway. . I wrote some fanfic where Julia worked at a bigger, more prestigious hospital but because she had *wild* ideas about treatment she went to a smaller institution that SHE got to run--more freedom in the hinterlands. . . Dave could've been from Collinsport and came back for various reasons. . not wanting a big time hectic practice, ailing parent. . who knows? Does it matter. .they were written as great doctors and both of 'em did really stupid things . .personally, medically. . .yada yada yada. .
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If Julia and Dave was number 1 and 2 how did they end up in Maine, not saying that Maine is a bad place, but isn't it out of the way.
Just because someone is at the top of his/her class in whatever field, that certainly does not mean that s/he is required to work in the biggest, best, most famous, etc. place and is somehow a disappointment if s/he doesn't. People make life/career choices every day that often place them in what could be considered a lower tier position, and there are a variety of personal and professional reasons for that. Some people like the challenge of working in an environment where they feel they are in a position to improve things rather than a place where everything is shiny, new, and wonderful. Thank goodness some of the "best and brightest" opt for these sorts of challenges. ;)
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I like the comment about Dr Hoffman opting for a smaller, less prestigous shall we say, hospital where she probably was given more leeway to do the type of research that she wanted. Dave did comment that she was brilliant in research. The type of research that she was doing probably didn't make big waves and was only of interest to a small group of researchers. I really think that they were very good friends over the years and then she felt like she betrayed that friendship when Barnabas killed him.