DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '06 II => Topic started by: BuzzH on July 27, 2006, 07:47:23 PM
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Can anyone tell me why it is that [spoiler]David seems to forget that he and Amy were once possessed by children from a past Collinwood? He seems to be turning into his father when Carolyn & Hallie insist there's someone in the room w/them. Why would he think Tad and Carrie couldn't harm them given his past at being possessed. And another thing, did anyone get a little tired of the "David will die unless we go back to the past and change events"?[/spoiler]
Just wondering....;)
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Hi Buzz,
If might add my speculations. I think David was always considered THE heir to the family name and legacy. I kind of smile when I remember realizing Barnabas might kill any number of people to prevent harm to David, especially since [spoiler]he was almost intent on doing away with David in the 1967 present day era.[/spoiler] Ultimately Barnabas is about family, and David becomes a kind of priority to him after a while. Likewise, Barnabas the "anti-hero" really seems to respect Elizabeth and therefore her goals for the Collins family future. While Elizabeth is no doubt preparing for Carolyn's Trust, there is also that expectations of the show's era that Carolyn will marry at least moderately well and will be provided for. I think Elizabeth liked Joe both for his integrity and honesty as well as for a sincere and realistic ambition.
Now, [spoiler]I think there were always time paradoxes. The people who made the changes in the past were aware of what had happened and the changes. But admittedly, the effect on the people of the present was inconsistent. Amy fears Quentin in 1969, but at the end of 1840, it was as if most of 1970 had not happened. Its the old, if you could time travel and kill your grandfather, would you cease to exist conundrum. If I might speculate, that being possessed by Tad, whom he may have been in a previous incarnation, affects him differently than being possessed by Quentin, who was basically an angry ghost. Hope this is food for thought.[/spoiler]
Michael ::)
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Ultimately Barnabas is about family, and David becomes a kind of priority to him after a while.
Hmm, you make some good points, thanks! ;) As for Barnabas, I agree he sorta became a surrogate father to David. I mean, he had all that practice fawning over Sarah back in the day. I just watched the scene where [spoiler]he tells David it's good to see him (after being in PT and 1995) and that he looks taller. David replies he is, he thinks.[/spoiler]
I feel this scene was more about Jonathan chatting w/David Hennessy rather than Barnabas chatting w/David Collins. ;)
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i can't believe that the writers themselves didn't see the similarities here to the quentin hauntings of 1968/69.
sometimes i feel like i'm having deja vu when i'm watching this.
another problem with the storyline here is that both david and hallie are too old for it with it's talk of playrooms and dollhouses.they're constantly refered to as "children" even though they seem more like young teenagers.
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Just a comment about Hallie. She's so annoying, she's like Jan Brady on Crack! >:D
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i can't believe that the writers themselves didn't see the similarities here to the quentin hauntings of 1968/69.
sometimes i feel like i'm having deja vu when i'm watching this.
another problem with the storyline here is that both david and hallie are too old for it with it's talk of playrooms and dollhouses.they're constantly refered to as "children" even though they seem more like young teenagers.
That was quite ridiculous wasn't it? I think they could have come up with a better way to move this plot forward. David and Hallie, as well as Tad and Carrie were FAR too old for this. If Tad was old enough to spend time away from home at sea, I sincerely doubt he would be cavorting about with girls in the playroom on his return.
They never did explain the whole closet = huge room thing either.
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They never did explain the whole closet = huge room thing either.
I think of the 'vanishing' playroom/closet thing the way I think of the parallel time room. Sometimes it's there, and sometimes it's not. ;) Now, why the playroom is BIGGER than the closet, well, that just smacks of Dr. Who and his police call box/Tartis. ;D
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Just watched the ep where [spoiler]Hallie and David have the same dream where they are seemingly in 1840 and go down to the foyer. Outside you hear a carriage race up to the front doors and Flora bursts in demanding to see the children. Quentin comes out of the closed drawing room to comfort her and take her to see their bodies, but he doesn't call her Flora, he calls her Elizabeth. Hmmm, interesting. Blooper on Selby's part? Or had they not come up w/the name Flora yet?[/spoiler]
And while we're at it, does anyone else think that the name Flora was used as a sort of 'inside joke' as that was Jonathan's mother's name? Or merely coincidence?
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Just a comment about Hallie. She's so annoying, she's like Jan Brady on Crack! >:D
:o :o :o thats so funny
jennifer
hope you make it to 2000 Buzz :)
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buzz,
i just saw that episode recently myself and i did notice that quentin called joan bennett "elizabeth".i haven't seen 1840 but i do know that bennett's character there is called "flora".
funny,i noticed something else during these episodes.i haven't heard "liz" in a long time.barnabas,julia and quentin call her "elizabeth".carolyn calls her "mother".david calls her "aunt elizabeth".maggie,mrs.johnson,hallie,sebastian and others call her "mrs.stoddard".
then it hit me that roger is not present during this storyline and he is primarily the one who called her "liz".it's sort of a brother/sister thing.most of the other characters speak to her more formally.
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funny,i noticed something else during these episodes.i haven't heard "liz" in a long time.barnabas,julia and quentin call her "elizabeth".carolyn calls her "mother".david calls her "aunt elizabeth".maggie,mrs.johnson,hallie,sebastian and others call her "mrs.stoddard".
then it hit me that roger is not present during this storyline and he is primarily the one who called her "liz".it's sort of a brother/sister thing.most of the other characters speak to her more formally.
Jason called her Liz too. But I think they are the only 2. ;)
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The fact that Roger is absent seems to indicate they didn't know what to do with him anymore, especially since Quentin is there.
If the show had continued in the present time after 1840, we may have still seen Roger but David, Maggie, & Mrs. Johnson would be gone. Perhaps they would have done the "kid trick" as other soaps and aged David into his 20's.
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The fact that Roger is absent seems to indicate they didn't know what to do with him anymore, especially since Quentin is there.
I'm sure Louie was just doing a play. ;) They'd often have a character be idle or off somewhere, in this case, to Europe, when one of the actor's was off 'walking the boards'. ;)
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perhaps it's just this unrelenting heat that's got me crabby but there are some continuity gaffes here that are very jarring.for instance...
[spoiler]when maggie is bitten by "an animal" carolyn reminds her that there were similar attacks in town about "a year earlier".perhaps i'm forgetting something but the last time i recall unexplained attacks was during the tom jennings/angelique storyline of 1968.[/spoiler]
then...
[spoiler]when gerard summons carolyn to the playroom he does so using the theme from josette's music box.which if you think about it really had no signifigance for her(maggie and vicki being it's recipients).
later when she performs her "recital" it's pansey faye's theme.[/spoiler]
call me cynical but i feel as if this was an attempt to remind viewers of two of the show's most popular storylines at a time when the ratings were in decline.
speaking of that music box does anyone remember what ultimately became of it?the last time i recall seeing it barnabas had mrs.johnson throw it into a cardboard box full of sleeveless dresses to be stored in the basement when vicki disappeared into the past.
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perhaps it's just this unrelenting heat that's got me crabby but there are some continuity gaffes here that are very jarring.for instance...
[spoiler]when maggie is bitten by "an animal" carolyn reminds her that there were similar attacks in town about "a year earlier".perhaps i'm forgetting something but the last time i recall unexplained attacks was during the tom jennings/angelique storyline of 1968.[/spoiler]
then...
[spoiler]when gerard summons carolyn to the playroom he does so using the theme from josette's music box.which if you think about it really had no signifigance for her(maggie and vicki being it's recipients).
later when she performs her "recital" it's pansey faye's theme.[/spoiler]
call me cynical but i feel as if this was an attempt to remind viewers of two of the show's most popular storylines at a time when the ratings were in decline.
From what I remember a LOT of the summer 0f 70 storyline was unbearable plotwise. It's like they had these ideas for 1840, but weren't quite sure how to get there. They set stuff up in 1995 that they weren't sure later how to tie into anything at all. Personally I'm looking forward to watching these episodes, having seen them only once before.
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IMHO- the writers particuliarly russell and welles, thru in the towel in post 1969 storylines----its a shame because what a waste of acting talent doing poorly written plots.....
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last night as i was watching the progression of this storyline i was startled when there were a few references to the long forgotten miss winters.
[spoiler]when barnabas is trying to find out if david in possessed he asks him a few questions that david would know the answer to.he asks him about his mother(the never mentioned laura!)and about who his governess was before maggie.
later when hallie needs to find some contemporary clothing for daphne she digs up some "ridiculous" cloths that once belonged to a governess there.a "victoria something".[/spoiler]
a rare nod to a departed character.usually once they're gone they never get mentioned again(laura,burke,joe,sam...).
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like most shows i think they seem to run out of ideas
jennifer
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Though 1995 was brilliant, summer 70 & 1840 was a poor rehash of what went on in 1897.
Worse, it was dull, ignored many parts of the show's established history & didn't tie up loose ends.
Maybe they didn't care anymore?
David
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just the atmosphere of d.s. is enough to hold my attention in general.
but,yeah,this storyline has to be the one i'm the most dispassionate about.some storylines have me glued to my seat but i could easily have this on in the background as i do other things.maybe i'm just burned-out on the whole thing.
perhaps because the previous two storylines(leviathan and parallel time)had been so super-specific to the plot the continuity errors were a bit easier to overlook.but this is just sort of "regular" collinwood so they really stand out.
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compared to all that is on the telly these days i say BRING BACK DS! :(
jennifer
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More on the Summer of 1970-
I finally made it to this part of the series in the boxsets, and was pleasantly surprised (so far) that my previous recollection of this storyline was wrong. So far I find it pretty damn engrossing. There's a current of terror running through the house that Julia and Barnabas are trying to find, but is already affecting David, Hallie and Quentin. Julia and Barnabas know something is up and keep finding out about the "clues" after the fact, which must be pretty damn frustrating. This however is disguised by a pleasant day-to-day atmosphere in the house when something ghostly isn't going on. It's been a long time since we've seen the family sitting around reading, sewing, having tea or going on picnics.
Quentin is again an interesting character here. He's been heavily forewarned about Daphne and what the future holds for both him and the family. He knows she's going to lead to the destruction of everyone around him, but one meeting and he's almost completely under her sway. He doesn't disclose to Julia or Barnabas that he has in fact seen her, he questions the children in a round-about way if they've seen her themselves, and then lies about his actions when caught searching for more information about her. He's already obsessed.
Daphne I love. She's so beautiful! I wonder if the scene in the graveyard was a turning point for her. (Anyone else notice that Gerard's grave was missing and replaced with Thomas Jennings?) It'd been 130 years since anyone had shown her any genuine affection, and I imagine Gerard has been feeding her hate all this time. After she drops the knife she looks startled and confused. I barely remember 1840 so I can't comment on the dynamics of character relationships there vs. the present. For example, is it known prior to the trip to 1840 that Daphne & Quentin were an item? Or were they? (Don't answer that! I want to see for myself).
The playroom itself I see in a different light, now having seen some of the episodes aagin. It's not that David and Hallie want to hang out there. At first they go to look for it as a lark, something teenagers would do, searching out sealed rooms and family secrets. (Although you think David would have learned his lesson the first time!) But once they find it they are compelled to return to it by forces outside their control. As for Tad and Carrie, they seemingly grew up in that room together, so with the house in turmoil after Tad's return from sea, they may have used it as a refuge from the family and a reminder of calmer and happier times. Even though they probably weren't calmer or happier times, but they have the filter of childhood to look back through.
I still don't understand how the playroom and the closet seemingly exist in the same space. Perhaps the door on the closet was once the door to the playroom. If they took the door off the playroom before they sealed it up and put it on another doorframe, maybe sometimes when that door was opened it would act as a portal to the other room it once guarded.
I ended disc 2 last night with the return of Roxanne. I have a feeling things are about to take a different swing, but I'll see as I go along.
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interesting assesment arashi.
while i did start to lose interest during this storyline i can appreciate what you said about the "pleasant day-to-day" atmosphere at collinwood.it's true.i appreciated that appearance of normalcy during the early part of the leviathan storyline as well as parallel-time.
with all sorts of monsters coming out of the woodwork during 1968/69 a return to a slightly more "normal" atmosphere at the house(of course with an undercurrent of terror)was welcome.
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The playroom itself I see in a different light, now having seen some of the episodes aagin. It's not that David and Hallie want to hang out there. At first they go to look for it as a lark, something teenagers would do, searching out sealed rooms and family secrets. (Although you think David would have learned his lesson the first time!) But once they find it they are compelled to return to it by forces outside their control. As for Tad and Carrie, they seemingly grew up in that room together, so with the house in turmoil after Tad's return from sea, they may have used it as a refuge from the family and a reminder of calmer and happier times.
Exactly!
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1995-1970-1840 is a jumble of things for me that I know wouldn't make sense if I were to look further into it, so I don't. Were they actually walking into Rose Cottage when they entered the playroom in Collinwood? Or was the room a temporary part of Collinwood every time the kids entered it? What if Mrs. Johnson was getting a towel and the rooms switched? Was the Stairway just another crazy room or were the phenomena connected? And the Parallel Time room... lots of crazy time and space rooms in the same general location. Why'd they leave the towels behind when they closed down the wing? Were they haunted too?
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When I first saw Summer 1970, actually during Summer 1970, the one thing I kept thinking was how the stories rapidly came and went. Whereas we were use to a single plot going on for months (1897 lasted almost nine - 3/4 of a year), suddenly, in the space of one years, we're dealing with the Leviathans, Parallel Time, Future Time, Gerard and Daphne's ghosts, and getting whisked back to 1840. Here it comes; there it goes, on to the next.
Gerard
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1995-1970-1840 was one long storyline, though.