DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '06 I => Topic started by: Pansity on June 16, 2006, 12:13:58 AM
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I find it interesting how they handled the Collins' wealth through the various RT storylines. Interestingly enough, being a history wonk, I find that what they show parallels how things progressed in society in the real world.
In Barnabas' time, Joshua is a wealthy shipbuilder, apparently with shipping interests in various parts of the world. The connection with the West Indies makes me think of the song Molassses to Rum to Slaves from 1776 (in which Virginia Vestoff -- Samantha in 1840 -- starred on Broadway). The song WAS based on a truism of the time, and that trade was the basis of a LOT of the extreme wealth of the time.
1840s we have Quentin the head of the household as the Captain of what sounds like a Clipper Trade Ship, and the implication is that the family has a large fleet, and, though my memory is rusty on this, it sounds like they also have a major shipbuilding business.
The 1897 family is implied to have vast wealth. They show Gilded age extravagance and its inferred even more by Edward being good friends with British nobility - and you needed SERIOUS money to run in those circles in Victorian times. This fits with a time when shipping and trade were at its height and anyone involved with them could increase even the biggest fortune many times over.
But then we come to 1966. This is a time when shipping is dying, planes are taking away most of the passenger trade and a lot of the cargo trade. There has not been a big call for shipbuilding for many decades. The family business seems to consist mostly of a cannery. We see Elizabeth is trying to keep Collins Enterprises afloat, and negotiating with the town to lower her property taxes on teh grounds that most of the property is unused. A far cry from the family who had enough spare assets that Naomi';s jewels disappearing didn't even rate a hiccup on the family's style of living.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
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good topic pansity.
you're right about the timing of all this.the types of industries that first built the collins' family fortune(whaling,shipbuilding)would have been in steep decline by the 1960's.
also a factor to consider is simply how the show's plotting changed over time.
when the show began in 1966 it was a traditional "soap opera" so things like family fortunes in decline were common storylines.
once the show centered on supernatural plotting that type of thing became less important.especially during the time travel storylines.
setting up a backdrop of immense wealth here created a more colorful atmosphere.there could be elaborate sets and costuming.servants could be worked into the plot.a grudgeful townspeople.apart from the main estate and its outbuildings there could be private mausoleums and cemetaries.all the types of things only great wealth could support.
and of course that old chestnut about how the vast collins' family wealth and position could do things like rewrite the town's records and history books must have made for writing the family as hugely wealthy irresistable for the show's writers.
i noticed that during 1970 parallel time the family's finances seemed to be in great shape too and even during the present time episodes after awhile there is no mention of financial straights and they just seemed to be quite rich...again allowing for a more colorful backdrop.
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Part of Elizabeth's struggle was that she'd locked up a large part of her assets
in trust for Carolyn and David.
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This reminds me of something that "General Hospital" experimented with many years ago. I'm not sure if it was a direct response to complaints that "rich" characters seemed to take over the stories, but at one point they brought in a new group of relatives for the Spencer family. I particularly recall Tony Geary playing his own cousin "Bill" in that storyline. They were very obviously working class, with working class interests and problems.
It was a long time ago, but I do recall that it didn't last for very long and I always assumed that the audiences and the production company quickly realised that if the characters on the show resembled the audience's own boring middle class lives, there wasn't much reason to watch.
Now, of course, damn near everyone on GH is a multi-millionaire..... ::)
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This reminds me of something that "General Hospital" experimented with many years ago. I'm not sure if it was a direct response to complaints that "rich" characters seemed to take over the stories, but at one point they brought in a new group of relatives for the Spencer family. I particularly recall Tony Geary playing his own cousin "Bill" in that storyline. They were very obviously working class, with working class interests and problems.
It was a long time ago, but I do recall that it didn't last for very long and I always assumed that the audiences and the production company quickly realised that if the characters on the show resembled the audience's own boring middle class lives, there wasn't much reason to watch.
Now, of course, damn near everyone on GH is a multi-millionaire..... ::)
thats weird rainey as Luke and Bobbie were from the wrong side of town to begin with
but i agree i do find it boring though that everyone is rich :o
jennifer
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Just to interject my pet bete-noire about the stories set in "the PAWSSST" (I do adore how Joan pronounced that word)--namely, that a family with the standing of the Collins' in the 1790s, 1840s and 1890s would have had a full staff of servants (in the 1790s and 1840s, this would have been very necessary due to all the hard physical labor necessary to perform simple tasks of household maintenance). Instead, we get Riggs and Stokes holding down the fort in 1795, and poor Beth (whom Judith keeps trying to fire) the only servant seen onscreen in 1897. I can't remember any servants in 1840 apart from Hortense the Hapless.
The only time the house seemed to be properly staffed was in the 1940s, judging from the list of people Liz fired in '49.
G.
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If you read Angelique's Descent by Lara Parker, she spends a fair amount of time describing the sugar plantations on Martinique (at least I think it was sugar, my memory is getting bad), where the DuPres' made their fortune, and even has Barnabas being in the Navy because that's pretty much required for anyone to be in a shipbuilding family.
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Just to interject my pet bete-noire about the stories set in "the PAWSSST" (I do adore how Joan pronounced that word)--namely, that a family with the standing of the Collins' in the 1790s, 1840s and 1890s would have had a full staff of servants (in the 1790s and 1840s, this would have been very necessary due to all the hard physical labor necessary to perform simple tasks of household maintenance). Instead, we get Riggs and Stokes holding down the fort in 1795, and poor Beth (whom Judith keeps trying to fire) the only servant seen onscreen in 1897. I can't remember any servants in 1840 apart from Hortense the Hapless.
The only time the house seemed to be properly staffed was in the 1940s, judging from the list of people Liz fired in '49.
There was Dirk Wilkins as well, though I think he was a groundskeeper?
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There was Dirk Wilkins as well, though I think he was a groundskeeper?
Dirk was a groundskeeper - also the bloodsucker to be named later! >:D
Petofi
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In one episode of 1897 we do see another maid. I forget what they called her.
If I rewatch 1897 soon, I'll find out what episode it was.
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There was Willie... do they count if you don't pay them?
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Part of Elizabeth's struggle was that she'd locked up a large part of her assets
in trust for Carolyn and David.
Thanks Julianka. I forgot about that. Only saw the series straight through once, and (silly me) was only TIMESHIFTING when I caught them from episode one. I TAPED over them after watching. [8311] . Didn't think I was going to get sucked into the fandom you see -- I thought I was only taking the convenient opportunity, on seeing that they were starting from ep 1, to finally see ALL of the show.Only started keeping them after the ep with Carl and Quentin in the mausoleum grabbed me.
But I would like to thank the nice cousin (Arashi, I think) who posted elsewhere about Deepdiscountdvd.com having the sale (which ends as of end of business today) with 20% off their already cheap as it gets prices, PLUS FREE SHIPPING. At that price, I went and snagged 1795 as I've been intending to for some time. ME BAD. [naughty]
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Just to interject my pet bete-noire about the stories set in "the PAWSSST" (I do adore how Joan pronounced that word)--namely, that a family with the standing of the Collins' in the 1790s, 1840s and 1890s would have had a full staff of servants (in the 1790s and 1840s, this would have been very necessary due to all the hard physical labor necessary to perform simple tasks of household maintenance). Instead, we get Riggs and Stokes holding down the fort in 1795, and poor Beth (whom Judith keeps trying to fire) the only servant seen onscreen in 1897. I can't remember any servants in 1840 apart from Hortense the Hapless.
The only time the house seemed to be properly staffed was in the 1940s, judging from the list of people Liz fired in '49.
Nice to see such great responses to this! ;D
I was wondering whether someone would bring up the servant thing. Have to admit, it's a pet peeve of mine too. But -- and I admit being unusual in this -- I tend to think of DS as more of a play than a tv show. I take it for granted with servants that there are far more than we see "on stage"; we just don't see them because they aren't essential to the action.
Add to that DC's tendency to use as few actors as possible and you get such weirdnesses as Beth -- who was Jenny's LADIES MAID -- doing everthing from the household dusting to the toting and hauling as well as caring for the kids. Taking care of Grandmamma as the cover story for caring for Jenny made sense for a ladies maid; the other stuff didn't really. Not to mention wondering , between the long hours of a Victorian servant, running around on the various adventures [Wolfie] and then working for Petofi full time, when the HECK the woman got any sleep. [sleepy3] [sleepy5]
Anyway, as to the lack of the proper servant population in the various periods, I just give them the right number and kind of staff for the time in my minds eye. Just one more thing for that list my friend AngeliqueWins and I often discuss, of scenes that you KNOW had to have happened, but we never saw. [b003]
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I find it rather amusing that some nights the family is up ALL HOURS and this appears to be the norm, while other nights they are all in bed by 9:00! If the family kept such odd hours, imagine what the servants sleep patterns were like.
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But I would like to thank the nice cousin (Arashi, I think) who posted elsewhere about Deepdiscountdvd.com having the sale...
:D You're very welcome ;D
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i agree with pansity that the presence of servants is "implied" rather than having the characters actually appear on screen.they frequently get mentioned in most time periods.
the exception would be the present where it is clearly established that liz dismissed the entire staff eighteen years earlier and since that time only matthew morgan,and later mrs.johnson,are the only servants in the house.
speaking of mrs.j. such is her devotion to the collins clan that it is easy to forget that she actually first came to collinwood to spy for burke devlin and help him bring down the family.
i remember once in 1795 some sort of hatted maid delivered a note to millicent.
in 1970pt there also is apprently a full staff.besides a maid(hoffman) and a butler(trask) there is talk of a cook,a gardener and several chambermaids.again these characters go unseen.
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I find it rather amusing that some nights the family is up ALL HOURS and this appears to be the norm, while other nights they are all in bed by 9:00! If the family kept such odd hours, imagine what the servants sleep patterns were like.
that is so true!
some nights these people are just up until near dawn.other times(especially liz)it's lights out at sundown.
perhaps because certain characters could only function at night they needed to maximize that time so you have some nights that stretch into a week's worth of episodes. ::)