DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk '25 I => Topic started by: Gerard on December 21, 2024, 02:21:04 AM

Title: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Gerard on December 21, 2024, 02:21:04 AM

After Alexandra left DS due to a bun in her oven, Betsy took over the roll of Victoria.  From what I've read or heard, whether or not it's true, the character of Vicki was to remain part, parcel and central to the show and the storylines, including Quentin's haunting, the journey to 1897, etc.  But it's obvious that never happened.  Was it because Betsy never caught on (Icky Vicky) with the audience and the powers-that-be knew it?  Once Betsy made her appearance, rather than hanging around for the rest of the serious, Victoria quickly vanished - we saw it today as she and a returned Jeff went poof into the past together.  But if Betoria/Vicsy had remained, how would that have impacted the Quentin haunting storyline?  Obviously, Victoria would've remained the governess and Maggie never would've been hired.  Would Betsy have played Rachel Drummond in 1897 rather than TLATKLS?  If another reincarnated Josette would be part of the plot, and played by TLATKLS, what would her character have been (not counting the later arriving Lady Kitty)?  Asking for a friend.

Gerard

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: McTrooper on December 21, 2024, 03:05:35 AM

I wonder if it was more of a cost savings move.  Maggie’s actress was already a known quantity and reducing the cast of course saved. 

But I’m far from an expert and I think the topic is interesting.   
Maybe there is something tantalizing tidbits of information out there. 

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Uncle Roger on December 21, 2024, 06:09:47 AM

At the first DS Festival back in 1983, Ron Sproat said that most, if not all, of the stuff that happened to Maggie from the fall of 1968 would have happened to Vivki. At that point, nothing was set in stone for 1897. A more interesting question to me is what would happened to Maggie if Vicki had remained on the show. The diner was no longer being prominently used. The characters that were part of Maggie's circle (Sam, Joe, Nicholas) were no longer on the show, leaving Maggie precisely where. They would have to move new characters into Maggie's orbit for her to interact with. Or write her off the show for lack of storyline.

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 21, 2024, 05:24:10 PM

You make a good point about the possibility that Maggie may have very well been written out after all the characters that were connected to her were no longer on the show. I agree that seems like it could have been a real possibility. If so, KLS definitely benefited from Alexandra Moltke's departure because otherwise KLS may have found herself without a job. Well, unless it was simply Maggie who was written out but they may have brought KLS back as a different character...

Another fascinating point is if Maggie had been written out of the show and KLS had not been brought back as another character, would Maggie/KLS have appeared in hoDS? Or would Vicki have been the one to resemble Josette as they did in the '91 Series?

Also, it's interesting that the subject of Betsy Durkin has been revived at this time given that her final DS ep is currently featured in the Robservations slideshows:

On the first page:

(http://www.dsboards.com/quoteimages/1220ds_0.jpg)
1968: Ep #650 - Peter: 'Centuries separate us.'

And on the second:

(http://www.dsboards.com/eventimages/1220ds_8.jpg)
1968: Ep #650 - Vicki believes she must leave
Collinwood because the house holds too many
memories.

(http://www.dsboards.com/eventimages/1220ds_9.jpg)
1968: Ep #650 - Vicki turns down Barnabas' proposal
because she will always love Jeff.

(http://www.dsboards.com/eventimages/1220ds_10.jpg)
1968: Ep #650 - Peter explains that Vicki did marry
him and that his spirit was allowed to exist inside a
man named Jeff Clark's body.

(http://www.dsboards.com/eventimages/1220ds_11.jpg)
1968: Ep #650 - Peter and Vicki begin to disappear
before Barnabas and Liz' startled eyes.

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Uncle Roger on December 21, 2024, 05:45:56 PM

DC seemed to have liked Kathryn (as much as he was going to like anyone), so I think that there was a good possibility that if Maggie had been written off, Kathryn would likely have turned up as another character.

And, perhaps in a yet to be discovered band of parallel time, the lead characters in HODS would have been Vicki and Joe Haskell.

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 21, 2024, 06:49:48 PM

A KLS return as another character might have been complicated IF after Maggie being written out KLS had decided to go off with Ben Martin on his foreign assignments, similar to how she took a leave of absence to go with him to Africa in 1969. Of course, we'll never know - but there's another possibly for a yet to be discovered band of parallel time.   [santa_wink]

Really, there are so many things that might have been different had Alexandra Moltke not left the show...

Quote from: Uncle Roger on December 21, 2024, 05:45:56 PM

And, perhaps in a yet to be discovered band of parallel time, the lead characters in HODS would have been Vicki and Joe Haskell.

Now that would have been fascinating. Not to mention, based on things KLS and Joan Bennett have said, just think of how the other actors would have enjoyed not working with a certain co-star had Joel Crothers been in the film rather than him... (Not to mention how several viewers would have enjoyed hoDS so much more without him - but that's an entirely different story... [santa_cheesy])

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Uncle Roger on December 21, 2024, 09:52:04 PM

It's hard to say if Betsy was intended to replace Alexandra permanently or not. It seems possible that they hired her to burn off the scripts that were already written and get the character off screen as quickly as possible.

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 21, 2024, 10:34:17 PM

 [pointing-up]  Yes, I've often wondered if that was a possibility, too. Though the only comment in the well researched DS Companion with regard to Betsy Durkin taking over as Vicki is that the audience never accepted her. I've always taken that to mean that the fan mail wasn't exactly positive when she took over. Who knows if that's what really led to Vicki fading away into the past with Peter? And like I've said before, I was no longer able to watch DS when Betsy Durkin's eps were originally run because parents' groups had succeeded in getting the show moved to 8:30am on the Providence, RI ABC affiliate and to 2:30pm on an independent Boston, MA station. (It wasn't until Ep #666 in January of '69 that DS fans' protests got the show back on at 4pm, and even Carolyn Groves' Vicki's ep had already all run.) So I have no idea how I might have reacted to her if I had seen her in '68. By the time I finally did see her when her eps were shown around here in syndication in '87, I'd already read all sorts of unflattering things about her performances as Vicki, so I was expecting the worst. But I was surprised to discover that I didn't think she was all that bad - certainly not as bad as I'd been led to believe she would be. But then I was seeing her eps long after the original run and not in real time right after the disappointment of Alexandra Moltke leaving, so I suspect that made a big difference...

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Gerard on December 22, 2024, 01:41:29 AM

I don't know if I read this somewhere, or if it's just DSFMS (Dark Shadows False Memory Syndrome), but I think that I think that I remember thinking I remembered that it was hoped after Alexandra finished baking and tending to her bun, it was hoped she would return and continue with the role, Betsy just holding out as a long term "Fake Carolyn" until Alexandra ended her maternity leave.  Again, did I read this somewhere correctly, or was it DSFMS?  Regardless, let's say it's true for the sake of argument, it still would leave "what would happen" unresolved:  the character of Maggie; who played who in 1897, etc. 

Gerard

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Uncle Roger on December 22, 2024, 02:28:20 AM

Curtis did try to persuade Alexandra to return several times. She had grown weary of the one note character that Vicki had become and would only consider a return if she got to play something different. If not an actual villain, at least a character with something of an edge. Curtis wouldn't hear of it, feeling that the audience would only accept original recipe Vicki. Stalemate.
One tentative scenario would have come during the Leviathan story. Barnabas would have time traveled to 1795, rescued Vicki and returned to the present with her. I don't know the specifics of how this would have been worked into the ongoing story but maybe it wasn't planned that far.
Betsy was offered to reprise the character in the short term arc that Carolyn Groves eventually played. She had planned a family vacation that was during the taping dates and chose not to cancel her trip

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Gerard on December 23, 2024, 02:58:06 AM

Quote from: Uncle Roger on December 22, 2024, 02:28:20 AM

Betsy was offered to reprise the character in the short term arc that Carolyn Groves eventually played. She had planned a family vacation that was during the taping dates and chose not to cancel her trip

I always wondered why, instead of Icky Vicki, they had another one (Kicky Vick? Licky Vicki? Micky Vicki? Picky Vicki? Sicky Vicki?...).  Well, apparently to some people, a family vacation rates more than DS - although in June 1970 I missed over two weeks of it because of a family vacation driving from the shores of Lake Michigan to Yellowstone and back.

Gerard

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Uncle Roger on December 23, 2024, 09:27:26 PM

Apparently acting did not turn out to be Betsy's thing in the long run. She appeared in a short lived NBC soap called Hidden Faces which also featured John Karlen. She did do some commercials, including an early one for Irish Spring, where she did get utter the immortal slogan Manly yes but I like it too.
Betsy did have better success as a songwriter. She was quite prolific in the 1970's, writing songs for The Michael Zager Band and Stephanie Mills.

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Philippe Cordier on December 25, 2024, 04:12:08 PM

Quote from: Uncle Roger on December 23, 2024, 09:27:26 PM

Apparently acting did not turn out to be Betsy's thing in the long run. She appeared in a short lived NBC soap called Hidden Faces which also featured John Karlen. She did do some commercials, including an early one for Irish Spring, where she did get utter the immortal slogan Manly yes but I like it too.

I think I can remember when Irish Spring soap was new and in the earliest commercials, as I recall, that immortal line was delivered by a young woman with a distinctly Irish brogue ... was that Betsy Durbin?

Perhaps if she had remained on DS she would have grown more and played Vicki more comfortably than she did in her limited time.

Merry Christmas one and all!

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Uncle Roger on December 25, 2024, 05:03:56 PM

I haven't seen that particular commercial in a long time but I think that it might well be Betsy.
Prior to Dark Shadows, Betsy appeared on Broadway in the play Cactus Flower as Botticelli's Springtime. At some point, the part was also played by DS alumni Marsha Mason.

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 25, 2024, 11:10:24 PM

 [pointing-up]  That's very interesting - who knew two different DS actresses had played the same role in the play!

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Uncle Roger on December 26, 2024, 01:57:42 AM

Further research shows that a third DS actress played the part. Gay Edmond, who played the ill-fated Stella Young in 1841 Parallel Time, played the part in the national touring cast. The male ingenue in that production was Gene Lindsey who played Randall Drew.

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 26, 2024, 04:01:48 PM

 [pointing-up]  That makes the situation even wilder!! [santa_wink] [santa_cheesy]

Thanks for doing all your research, Uncle Roger!  [santa_smiley]

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Uncle Roger on December 26, 2024, 04:16:11 PM

You're most welcome, MB.

 [ChristmaS0] [ChristmaS0] [ChristmaS0]

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: McTrooper on December 31, 2024, 08:55:48 PM

Such an interesting topic this has become. 

I wonder if YouTube has a that Irish Spring commercial? 

Lot’s of old commercials have found their way to YouTube. 
Kind of interesting to see what commercials I remember and how they were different / the same / not to mention commercials from other countries. 

Title: Re: Thoughts about "Icky" Vicky
Post by: Uncle Roger on January 01, 2025, 03:51:22 PM

I checked several Irish Spring commercials on YouTube and didn't find any with Betsy Durkin, though I did see one with Martin Kove, John Karlen's Cagney and Lacey costar. If it's out there, I'm sure it will turn up eventually.
Most of the DS cast did commercials at some point. While a lot of them have surfaced, some remain in obscurity. I would particularly like to see Joan Bennett's Geritol commercial. She's reunited with her Trade Winds costar Ralph Bellamy and, at the end, coos: Geritol's Mahvelous, as only Joan could.