DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '06 I => Topic started by: Roland on January 13, 2006, 06:02:22 AM
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I've often wondered how Joan Bennett, Louis Edmonds, Nancy Barrett, Kathryn Leigh Scott etc. felt about their characters always being so clueless once Barnabas and Julia took center stage in the drama. For most of the time after Barnabas' arrival, the original "stars" of the show suddenly became very "in the shadows" in terms of understanding the "big picture" or what was happening at Collinwood at any given time. Occasionally, they would be let in on the big dark secret - such as when the ghost of Quentin finally made his presence known - but, for the most part, they never seemed to have a clue about all the strange supernatural forces at work beneath the surface. Only Barnabas and Julia ever seemed to be FULLY aware of what was going on at all times.
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I suppose if the mainstays like Elizabeth, Roger, Carolyn, Maggie, etc. were all privy to and accepting of Barnabas' vampire curse, as well as the other sundry scandals at Collinwood, the tension and suspense would have been compromised to a large degree. Secrets are a major element of a captivating serial. I was always rooting for Barnabas and Julia to save the day, cover their tracks, and keep the Collins gang in the dark (shadows) - kind of a "what they don't know won't spook them" protective bond - they were the dynamic duo, the childless couple who'd adopted this family, and spent more time protecting them from sordid truths than pursuing their own wants.
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good topic.
it's interesting to note that many of the main characters besides julia and willie actually did "know" barnabas' secret...and then convieniently "forgot" it when the plot dictated.
maggie knew.vicki knew.carolyn knew.david was highly suspisious and certainly on his way to knowing.but the plot dictated that all these characters "forget" it or at least have their attention otherwise focused.
it worked out this way for most of the supernatural plots.as soon as it was over everyone acted like it had never happened and in many cases never spoke of it or appeared to have any recollection of it whatsoever. ::)
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For quite some time I've meant to post a link to this review:
http://www.imagesjournal.com/2002/reviews/darkshadows/
It's one of the best DS reviews I've read, and the first paragraph eloquently expresses this issue -
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The review of Collection 2 is pretty good too:
http://www.imagesjournal.com/2002/reviews/darkshadows2/
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it worked out this way for most of the supernatural plots.as soon as it was over everyone acted like it had never happened and in many cases never spoke of it or appeared to have any recollection of it whatsoever. ::)
I was always puzzled about that! ::)it's interesting to note that many of the main characters besides julia and willie actually did "know" barnabas' secret...and then convieniently "forgot" it when the plot dictated.
maggie knew.vicki knew.carolyn knew.david was highly suspisious and certainly on his way to knowing.but the plot dictated that all these characters "forget" it or at least have their attention otherwise focused.
I interpreted this differently. Maggie, Vicki, and Carolyn were all under Barnabas' power at one time or another, and I just felt that he had a lingering, residual effect on them - I think this was hinted at though never explicitly stated. They may not have consciously remembered their victimization.
I didn't think David was ever that close to the truth, but the most interesting case was Prof. Stokes. Surely he suspected something !
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Cool link. And speaking of MPI, does anybody here know where I can get my hands on the pre-Banabas episodes(VHS)? Anybody got any for sale? MPI is out of stock on these.
Janet
For quite some time I've meant to post a link to this review:
http://www.imagesjournal.com/2002/reviews/darkshadows/
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It is expected that MPI is going to release the DS Collector's edition on DVD once the end of the regular season DVD's is complete. This would be the 210 pre-Barnabus episodes.
By my calculations, they should be close to completing the series release by DVD 25 that should be released at the end of July. As of yet I have not heard for sure that MPI is planning to release the pre-Barnabus episodes. Perhpas someone on the board has some inside information. Because they no longer have any stock of the VHS copies may be a good sign of an eventual release on DVD.
I would suggest waiting to see what happens. Trying to purchase the 50-something Collector's tapes would be time consuming if they have to be tracked down individually.
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I feel they made everyone clueless because it allowed them to push the character of Barnabas into the spotlight. If anyone else (or everyone else) knew about everything supernatural it would probably drive them insane or just make the show too hokey.
I mean if the story required a character to know things then the writers allowe it. but makingf them clueless allowed for the "star" to step in and lead.
pushing all other characters aside and making himself the show.
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I'm afraid the real answer to this question is sloppy writing. The only character allowed to call Barn and Jules on their constant use of "I'll explain later" was Prof. Stokes. His lines were so distinctive at times, I've often wondered whether Thayer rewrote some of his own dialogue.
I'm quite sure that after awhile, Stokes DID know about Barnabas. After all, even before his venture into the world of The Dream, he already had a very sharp suspicion that it was Cassandra who was the Witch. Witchcraft is a lot easier to hide than Vampirism, ergo I presume the Professor must have figured it all out.
I'm surprised to hear that MPI is out of stock on the Collectors Series tapes. I just ordered three of them two months ago and received them without any problem.
Best, G.
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I agree that Stokes probably figured it out.
David actually knew. He just never used the word vampire specifically, but the kid was having dreams of a fanged Barnabas and saying that "cousin Barnabas is dead" IIRC. Sarah kinda spilled the beans on her big bro.
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I think it would have been interesting if they had a storyline where Stokes proclaimed that he actually knew what Barnabas was. What would he do? Allow Barnabas to continue to exist as a vampire knowing the potential harm he would cause to innocents, or would he help out Julia in attempting to find a cure?
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It's one of the best DS reviews I've read, and the first paragraph eloquently expresses this issue
I've read this review before and thought it was a very intelligent discussion. I don't neccessarily agree that Frid's performance was all that bad in the beginning. I think some of his earliests performances were brilliant - such as his intro to Collinwood, with his 50's hat, when Clarice Blackburn stares at him in shock as the cousin from England. His soliloquy to Vickie in the old house, and his mesmerizing story to Vickie and Carolyn re the death of Josette with the thunder booming in the background. I do believe, though, that after those initial scenes he became overwhelmed by his popularity and screen time and that's when he started to goof with the lines. Probably he just wasn't use to the immense amounts of dialogue he had to memorize daily. Also, I think after initial Barnabas the writers seemed uncertain where to take the character and this might be another reason why his performances sagged. Personally, I disliked his "dream cuse" work much more so. But by that time I hear he was exhausted by the pressure. As much as Frid is criticized I still believe he carried the show for years.
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I always wanted someone at Collinwood - one of the family - to find out about Barnabas. After a while, it got kind of tiring to see only Julia in on things. I think it would've been interesting if one of the other characters had discovered his secret (and not forgotten about it). With good writing, it could've been fun to watch.
Beyond Collinwood, I think it would've been neat if Chris had found out because I like the friendship between Chris and Barnabas once Barnabas discovers what Chris is and wants to help him.
Like others, I think Stokes knew, but there was no drama there because if he knew he chose not to say anything and even though Barnabas and Julia went to him on more than one occasion, they still kept him on the outside, so to speak.
Penny - I agree, David definitely knew....it's fascinating to speculate that he knew from then on about Barnabas. Like in [spoiler]1970 when he & Hallie want to try and tell someone about the playroom, Daphne & Gerard....David chooses Barnabas because he's "different".[/spoiler]
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There're a few more comments about the Collection 1 & 2 DVD reviews in this topic:
Some reviews of possible interest
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I always wanted someone at Collinwood - one of the family - to find out about Barnabas. After a while, it got kind of tiring to see only Julia in on things. I think it would've been interesting if one of the other characters had discovered his secret (and not forgotten about it). With good writing, it could've been fun to watch.
You guys are forgetting that a Collins *did* know [spoiler]Quentin found out in 1897, remember? ;)[/spoiler]
I agree that Stokes figured it out, he knew everything about everything anyway, LOL! I think he would have helped Julia find a cure.
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You guys are forgetting that a Collins *did* know [spoiler]Quentin found out in 1897, remember? ;)[/spoiler]
I didn't forget him, I just didn't count him. I meant someone from the present day - Elizabeth, Carolyn, Roger, Victoria....the regular Collins family. David knew, but it was never dealt with after 1795. I would've liked to have seen a story around one of the adults finding out.
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But it isn't just their not knowing that Barnabas is a vampire.
None of the main characters knew Chris was the werewolf or who the heck this strange Adam guy was or what was really going on with those strange Leviathans.
Only Barnabas and Julia seemed to always be fully informed about what was happening at all times. I guess, in a way, they functioned as the narrator for the rest of us. I just wonder if the other actors ever resented it (much like many of the actors in "Lost in Space" apparently resented becoming second bananas to Will and Dr. Smith).
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just a thought but perhaps the collins family and the other "normal" characters were supposed to represent "us" the viewing audience.
barnabas and julia knew all but the rest of the characters,like us,gained bits of information on an episode-by-episode basis.because the situations were so preposterous they just didn't see the "big picture" and couldn't put the pieces of the puzzle together themselves.then,as i said earlier,once that particular crisis was over with they acted like it had never happened or were somehow influenced so that they "forgot" it.
my feelings on professor stokes was that he was certainly aware of the fact that something highly unusual was always going on at collinwood but i never got the impression that the whole 'vampire' thing had fully fleshed itself out to him.especially since during much of their interaction barnabas was not actually in the vampire state.
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Even if they tried to tell them, it generally didn't work. Barnabas and Julia would learn things and perhaps figure out some more. Sometimes they tried to warn the family, as when they returned from 1995 and knew the disaster was approaching. They couldn't convince anyone it was true.
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I would suggest waiting to see what happens. Trying to purchase the 50-something Collector's tapes would be time consuming if they have to be tracked down individually.
I just saw a complete set of the Collector's Series VHS tapes go for about $185.00 plus $25.00 for shipping on eBay. They show up quite a bit.
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I didn't forget him, I just didn't count him. I meant someone from the present day - Elizabeth, Carolyn, Roger, Victoria....the regular Collins family.
[spoiler]But Quentin ends up in the present, so as I said before, a Collins, in the present day, DID know about Barnabas.[/spoiler]
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just a thought but perhaps the collins family and the other "normal" characters were supposed to represent "us" the viewing audience.
Nah, we knew as much as Barny and Julie, sometimes more. Case in point would be [spoiler]when Julia is being chomped on by Tom, Barnabas has no idea, at first, what's going on w/her. And she certainly was in the dark about him being under the control of the Leviathans.[/spoiler]The clan was just clueless. LOL! ;)
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None of the main characters knew Chris was the werewolf or who the heck this strange Adam guy was
LOL .. by that time they really should have had a clue that "wierd stuff" was lurking around them thanks to the bizarre DS writing team. I thought it was a shame Maggie couldn't put 2 & 2 together regarding Barnabas especially since their storyline (makeshift Josette) was so potent and disturbing.
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I thought it was a shame Maggie couldn't put 2 & 2 together regarding Barnabas especially since their storyline (makeshift Josette) was so potent and disturbing.
I love it when she actually DOES remember what happened to her! Finally some normality! Does she, as Julia and Willie did, accept what Barnabas did to her and move on? No! She limps all the way to Joe's apartment to get the heck out of Collinsport. Only [spoiler]she discovers her b/f in the arms--and fangs--of Angelique.[/spoiler]Too bad her memory is conveniently erased soon afterwards...
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[spoiler] I think erasing Maggie's memory permanently was the only way the writers could have gone. She wasn't going to forgive and forget. She still believed Barnabas was a vampire and wanted to make her into Josette. She was determined to go to the police and expose him. Nicholas couldn't have that. Anything that happened to Barnabas would happen to Adam and vice versa.
I figure Nicholas came to the apartment, Maggie spilled the beans about Barnabas and what he did to her, so Nicholas had to make her forget. [/spoiler]
To the original question, as someone has already said, bad writing.
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i think as they facial expressions showed, the speculated. i mean, all this nonsense happened right after barny appeared at collinwood.
and don't forget that angelique's curse cursed the whole family too, that is why after barnabas resurrected, all crazy things started happening.
[ghost_undecided] does that make sense?
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for the most part, they never seemed to have a clue about all the strange supernatural forces at work beneath the surface.
How likely do you think it is that anyone could possibly deduce that someone is a vampire unless they actually saw him/her disappear or bite someone? I don't know about you, but if a bunch of people in my town were getting bitten and their blood drank, I would just assume some mental patient got loose, not that there was a vampire.