DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '05 II => Topic started by: Misa on November 29, 2005, 03:21:36 AM
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Hello everyone,
I am thirsting to hear as many views and opinions as I possibly can about the 2004 pilot. Could those here who were at the fest and watched it; write a post and let everyone who was not so fortunate to see it know what they thought of the show?
Misa
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There's a much faster way to read what the lucky ones who saw the pilot thought about it: do a search for it......there were LOTS of comments written right after the fest.... ;)
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Buzz spoke elsewhere about the pilot being great because of the new "sexy" Barnabas. Nothing at all against Buzz, who's a funny, smart, and good poster, but I wasn't the slightest bit surprised that they got this part of the program "right". That's what TV and the whole culture is about now. Personally it's depressing to me to see show after show after show filled with bland interchangeable model-actors, whose problems we're then asked to care about. Of course there would be no place in the new DS for a Frid or Hall or Thayer David. That's the problem.
Today's cookie-cutter actors don't even have interesting faces, leaving aside the cookie-cutter acting. Frid, Hall, even Ben Cross, there are faces for you. A "traditionally" or mass-market 2005 type "sexy" actor could not play Barnabas, probably, and if he were the greatest actor in the world, the bland face would still get in the way.
I haven't seen the new pilot, and that's the perspective I'm writing from.
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I completely understand where you're coming from, Magnus. But having seen Alec Newman's work in several things beyond the WB pilot, I think it's safe to say that, if he'd been given the chance, he would have been a wonderful Barnabas. For example, if you haven't already done so, check out this video clip from an appearance Newman made on Tru Calling two seasons ago, shortly before he was cast in the pilot:
(RVID)
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Buzz spoke elsewhere about the pilot being great because of the new "sexy" Barnabas. Nothing at all against Buzz, who's a funny, smart, and good poster
Why, thank you you MT! [santa_wink]
but I wasn't the slightest bit surprised that they got this part of the program "right". That's what TV and the whole culture is about now. Personally it's depressing to me to see show after show after show filled with bland interchangeable model-actors, whose problems we're then asked to care about. Of course there would be no place in the new DS for a Frid or Hall or Thayer David. That's the problem.
Today's cookie-cutter actors don't even have interesting faces, leaving aside the cookie-cutter acting. Frid, Hall, even Ben Cross, there are faces for you. A "traditionally" or mass-market 2005 type "sexy" actor could not play Barnabas, probably, and if he were the greatest actor in the world, the bland face would still get in the way.
I haven't seen the new pilot, and that's the perspective I'm writing from.
In theory I agree w/you, *especially* when it comes to the WB Network! Their shows seem to be filled w/ppl who look good, but can't act. But in this instance, at least from what I could tell from the one show, the actors were all good looking, and could actually ACT! It would have been interesting to see more, wish they'd at least gotten 13 eps like the NBC show.
I think Ben Cross is a wonderful actor, and not bad looking, he just didn't light me up as Barnabas. And you're completely correct about actors like Frid, Hall and Thayer David, they wouldn't get more than a "senior", back-burner plot on a daytime soap these days. Sad but true unfortunatly. I think it was Charles Ellis who said that some of the wonderful soap actors from the 1970's, like Don Stewart, Don Hastings, John Beradino, Larry Haines etc...would never find the kind of roles today on soaps that they did then. What does that say about our society? [santa_cry]
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I think Ben Cross is a wonderful actor, and not bad looking, he just didn't light me up as Barnabas. And you're completely correct about actors like Frid, Hall and Thayer David, they wouldn't get more than a "senior", back-burner plot on a daytime soap these days. Sad but true unfortunatly. I think it was Charles Ellis who said that some of the wonderful soap actors from the 1970's, like Don Stewart, Don Hastings, John Beradino, Larry Haines etc...would never find the kind of roles today on soaps that they did then. What does that say about our society?
I think it just says that standards of what constitutes personal attraction and even charisma change over time. In their heyday, Hastings, Beradino, and most of the men of DS were considered handsome but in a mature, rugged, earthy, or even fatherly way, and Thayer David was, apparently due to his fluctuating weight, destined for middle-aged character roles on TV if not the stage. (This has always been the case since the early movies. I don't believe that will ever change significantly, like it or not.) The main difference is that the average age of these gents was up in the 30s and early 40s, though as the current crop of "sexy young" actors ages, no doubt they'll keep seeking leading roles as long as they can. I mean, how old was Sean Connery before he finally stopped doing "action" roles? Or Harrison Ford? Or are they even done with all that? I think Eastwood finally gave up that stuff, though he still has leading status. And they ALL still can get parts where they romance the ladies, probably will until they're on oxygen and in wheelchairs. And even then, maybe....
Likewise, most of the ladies of DS were considered beautiful and sexy for their time (and many would agree still are to some extent). Plus, as to youth, on average, most of the actresses were about 10 years younger than most of the men on the show. No doubt most of them they were chosen for THEIR physical charms as much as for their talent, and some of them were still new to the profession, thus their perfomances, while enhanced by our nostalgic fondness, often were uneven at best. And hey, what about those miniskirts and sleeveless numbers they were often called upon to wear? (And some who still do?) Plus, a few did modeling on the side. So while some of these "negatives" have been ramped up in the last 20 years or so, we're not talking about a "new" phenomenon, maybe just one that will never be completely overcome.
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Why, the Amanda Harris plot crap exemplifies your point exactly, Magnus: AH is a somewhat cute girl with little talent and zero personality but who depends solely on looks to get her way.
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DF--- If actresses then had not worn mini-skirts, viewers would have wondered what other time or what other planet these women were from. Mini-skirts were universal. DS would not have reflected the times without them. In fact, the attitude of some women then would have been, if they hadn't had mini-skirts on DS, why won't they let us show anything? Do they want us to wrap ourselves up in curtains? I'm not commenting on whether that's good or bad. It just is, or was.
Amanda Harris was okay.
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A few other social thoughts i've had:
1) folks are psychologically aging much slower . .e.g. still dressing like a teenagers when their in their middle 40s, haven't found themselves even at 60 and
2) Everyone smoked back in the DS days which dramatically ages a person (lines around eyes, mouth, overall skin appearance). . . This point occurred to me when i kept wondering. .well, you know. . on DS Grayson Hall is only 6-8 years older than me but she seems older .. And Frid too seems 50ish (not 20ish no matter how many believe). .and then i thought of my own Mother who looks significantly older than her mother and grandmother--and even me at this age. .we all have the same physical and skin types. . .ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! Mama smoked like a train for 30 years. . .and then i thought back to the earlier generation of DS actors all smoking. . . some actors even kept their cigarettes on the camera dolly for drags between takes (okay Grayson was the main actor who did this. .)
J99 ho ho ho [santa_tongue]
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DF--- If actresses then had not worn mini-skirts, viewers would have wondered what other time or what other planet these women were from. Mini-skirts were universal. DS would not have reflected the times without them. In fact, the attitude of some women then would have been, if they hadn't had mini-skirts on DS, why won't they let us show anything? Do they want us to wrap ourselves up in curtains? I'm not commenting on whether that's good or bad. It just is, or was.
Amanda Harris was okay.
the d.s. fashions are one of my favorite thing about the show.especially those miniskirts.there's nothing sweeter than maggie evans in a mini.funny but i think the mini's made the actresses look girlish and innocent.
i work in the fashion industry and every few seasons designers try to bring them back but except for the 'paris hilton' set there aren't alot of takers.
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A few other social thoughts i've had:
1) folks are psychologically aging much slower . .e.g. still dressing like a teenagers when their in their middle 40s, haven't found themselves even at 60 and
2) Everyone smoked back in the DS days which dramatically ages a person (lines around eyes, mouth, overall skin appearance). . . This point occurred to me when i kept wondering. .well, you know. . on DS Grayson Hall is only 6-8 years older than me but she seems older .. And Frid too seems 50ish (not 20ish no matter how many believe). .and then i thought of my own Mother who looks significantly older than her mother and grandmother--and even me at this age. .we all have the same physical and skin types.
On the first thing, it's beside your real point maybe, but it's up to individuals to decide what appearance looks mature to them. It's hardly an objective thing, to be stated as a fact. If people in their forties are "dressing like teenagers", teenagers of the 60s that is, then the standard has shifted, and it's not a teenage appearance any longer. Neil Young probably fits your profile as regards appearance usually, and he's awfully mature. When he wants to be.
I want to say people are getting more and more immature in personality, but maybe it was bad in the 60s too, and as kids we had to frame of reference to tell.
Smoking: my mother quit very late. All my life she looked literally twenty years older than she actually was. She died at 75, and looked 90-something. Her mother lived to 98.
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Likewise, most of the ladies of DS were considered beautiful and sexy for their time (and many would agree still are to some extent). Plus, as to youth, on average, most of the actresses were about 10 years younger than most of the men on the show. No doubt most of them they were chosen for THEIR physical charms as much as for their talent, and some of them were still new to the profession, thus their perfomances, while enhanced by our nostalgic fondness, often were uneven at best. And hey, what about those miniskirts and sleeveless numbers they were often called upon to wear? (And some who still do?) Plus, a few did modeling on the side. So while some of these "negatives" have been ramped up in the last 20 years or so, we're not talking about a "new" phenomenon, maybe just one that will never be completely overcome.
What do you mean "most of the ladies of DS were considered beautiful and sexy for their time" [santa_huh] They were beautiful and sexy, Nancy Barrett: Beautiful and sexy. KLS: Beautiful and sexy. Alexandra Moltke: Beautiful and sexy. Lara Parker: Beautiful and sexy. Terry Crawford: Beautiful and sexy. Marie Wallace: ditto
And as to sexy hot young hunks: Don Brisco, David Selby, Joel Crothers, John Karlen, Jerry Lacy, James Storm, and Michael Stroka. Mitchell Ryan(Not quite as young, but very sexy) same with Humbert Allen Astredo (Pant, pant), and Dennis Patrick (that Irish brogue was way sexy).
These actors were hot, and they still would be hot in today's TV. Jonathan Frid was sexy, sensual, and mysterious as Barnabas. It is as you said, Harrison Ford and Sean Connery are still pretty hot. Frid was hot!
As to the uneven performances they were probably due to the amount of time allowed to rehearse and the one-take that was then shown with all the mistakes, so sometimes they got lucky and the performance was good. Sometimes the performance was fantastic, and sometimes they were glad that no one was ever going to see it again (unaware that it would later be released on video and DVD for everyone to scrutinize all of the performances over and over again). [santa_embarassed]
Misa
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2) Everyone smoked back in the DS days which dramatically ages a person (lines around eyes, mouth, overall skin appearance). . . This point occurred to me when i kept wondering. .well, you know. . on DS Grayson Hall is only 6-8 years older than me but she seems older .. And Frid too seems 50ish (not 20ish no matter how many believe). .and then i thought of my own Mother who looks significantly older than her mother and grandmother--and even me at this age. .we all have the same physical and skin types. . .ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! Mama smoked like a train for 30 years.
Same here. My dad was a heavy smoker for 40 + years until he finally quit (thank goddess) due to a health emergency...I've also found, in my own family, that those that smoke do tend to look a bit older physically. Luckily, I don't smoke because I've seen what they've gone through, not to mention I'm allergic to the stuff...
some actors even kept their cigarettes on the camera dolly for drags between takes (okay Grayson was the main actor who did this.
You're full of interesting fun facts J99, I'm telling ya... :-*
J99 ho ho ho [santa_tongue]
Are you giving out gifts this year? I'll be waiting... ;) [santa_cheesy]
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1) folks are psychologically aging much slower . .e.g. still dressing like a teenagers when their in their middle 40s, haven't found themselves even at 60 and
This would be me! I'm 41 and dress like I'm 17, can't help it, I just like jeans and tee-shirts. Hell I feel TWELVE on a good day, LOL! [a_xmas]
2) Everyone smoked back in the DS days which dramatically ages a person (lines around eyes, mouth, overall skin appearance). . . This point occurred to me when i kept wondering. .well, you know. . on DS Grayson Hall is only 6-8 years older than me but she seems older .. And Frid too seems 50ish (not 20ish no matter how many believe). .and then i thought of my own Mother who looks significantly older than her mother and grandmother--and even me at this age. .we all have the same physical and skin types. . .ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! Mama smoked like a train for 30 years. . .and then i thought back to the earlier generation of DS actors all smoking. . . some actors even kept their cigarettes on the camera dolly for drags between takes (okay Grayson was the main actor who did this. .)
Hell, Frid used to smoke IN THE COFFIN! How nasty is that? :P
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Buzz.. he was just method acting, for playing a dead guy.
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And as to sexy hot young hunks: Don Brisco, David Selby, Joel Crothers, John Karlen, Jerry Lacy, James Storm, and Michael Stroka. Mitchell Ryan(Not quite as young, but very sexy) same with Humbert Allen Astredo (Pant, pant), and Dennis Patrick (that Irish brogue was way sexy).
These actors were hot, and they still would be hot in today's TV. Jonathan Frid was sexy, sensual, and mysterious as Barnabas. It is as you said, Harrison Ford and Sean Connery are still pretty hot. Frid was hot!
I find it interesting how you've ordered the names of the male actors here. I'm sure it's a matter of opinion, but I see a definite dividing line in your list between Storm and Stroka. Stroka, Ryan, Astredo, Patrick, and Frid all may have had appeal or charisma - which made them actors - but I don't think you'd find any of them mistaken for GQ models. Unlike the majority of leading actors on TV shows today.
[ChristmaS11]
P.S. to Forum Moderator - I'm unable to view the videoclip of Alec Newman in MB's post. A message said something about either an error or that I didn't have the authority to view it or something.
[snowball]
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P.S. to Forum Moderator - I'm unable to view the videoclip of Alec Newman in MB's post. A message said something about either an error or that I didn't have the authority to view it or something.
That's because that link was to the "Video for Full" board (because MagnusTrask's status was as a Full Poster at the time of the posting). Senior Posters need to view the "Video for God and Senior" board. [santa_wink]
Senior Members (and future Gods) can access the video in question here:
(RVID)
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P.S. to Forum Moderator - I'm unable to view the videoclip of Alec Newman in MB's post. A message said something about either an error or that I didn't have the authority to view it or something.
That's because that link was to the "Video for Full" board (because MagnusTrask's status was as a Full Poster at the time of the posting). Senior Posters need to view the "Video for God and Senior" board. [santa_wink]
Senior Members (and future Gods) can access the video in question here:
(RVID)
Am I somehow connected to this? I don't even know what is being talked about.
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And as to sexy hot young hunks: Don Brisco, David Selby, Joel Crothers, John Karlen, Jerry Lacy, James Storm, and Michael Stroka. Mitchell Ryan(Not quite as young, but very sexy) same with Humbert Allen Astredo (Pant, pant), and Dennis Patrick (that Irish brogue was way sexy).
These actors were hot, and they still would be hot in today's TV. Jonathan Frid was sexy, sensual, and mysterious as Barnabas. It is as you said, Harrison Ford and Sean Connery are still pretty hot. Frid was hot!
I find it interesting how you've ordered the names of the male actors here. I'm sure it's a matter of opinion, but I see a definite dividing line in your list between Storm and Stroka. Stroka, Ryan, Astredo, Patrick, and Frid all may have had appeal or charisma - which made them actors - but I don't think you'd find any of them mistaken for GQ models. Unlike the majority of leading actors on TV shows today.
Michael Stroka is listed with the younger actors. I think he was pretty sexy in his scenes as Aristede, and I think that Mitch Ryan is very GQ! He could have been a model. The pictures of Mr. Ryan from today's episode (#127) are especially GQ.
Misa
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Let's face it, the clothes from the 60s, 70s and 80s will always be remembered. Who is going to lookback in 2010 and remember the style of the early 2000s as definitely early 2000s? It really doesn't have a style that defines a generation IMO.
I saw the clip of Alex Neuman and I have to say that he could definitely make a hot Barnabas. His face has character plus he's a good actor from everything I've read about him.
Not so long ago I heard a much younger woman at work talk about disliking the 1990s 'Persuasion' actor (I don't remember his real name) Captain Wentworth because he wasn't attactive! I thought his portrayal of Captain Wentworth was so good that his personal appearance measured up to his performance IMO.
I'm also a big Dallas fan and the latest thing I've heard is that John Travolta is the first choice to play J.R. At first the idea of him playing my favorite character was not positive but I'm now thinking that Travolta can pull it off. It looks like they're not going for a real young actor for that choice part. That's a good thing. Oh, I've heard mention that Teri Hatcher is suggested for the role of Pamela Barnes Ewing. That's not a good idea to me. Miss Hatcher looks like she's been baking in the California sun a little too long. Pamela needs to be really fresh looking, and be as good an actor as the way Victoria Principal played the role.