DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Polls Archive => Topic started by: TNickey2003 on November 12, 2005, 08:07:30 PM

Title: DS women of present time.
Post by: TNickey2003 on November 12, 2005, 08:07:30 PM

For other DS present time women you feel are IMmature that I didn't include on the list, please opine in group message posts.

Happy voting :)

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Amy Jennings Fan on November 21, 2005, 11:08:13 PM

Carolyn Stoddard Hawkes

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Misa on November 23, 2005, 07:52:30 PM

Victoria Winters Clark was the most immature woman IMO, all she did was whine about Jeff. She wasn't this self-centered when poor Burke supposedly died in that plane crash. She completely forgot about poor old Burke.

Of course the new actress playing Vicki didn't help, but she was responsible for the children, she should have got some therapy and gotten on with her life. If she thought that the only way she would be with Jeff again was to die, she should have been able to live her life to the fullest. After all everyone dies, so after she lived her life and died she would have been with Jeff, right? So what was the hurry?

Misa

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Raineypark on November 23, 2005, 09:48:41 PM

Quote from: Misa on November 23, 2005, 07:52:30 PM

Victoria Winters Clark was the most immature woman IMO....... .......

I'm not sure I understand what you think Vicki should have done: are you criticizing her for mourning Jeff at the same time you are criticizing her for NOT mourning Burke?

Coming to terms with the death of a dearly loved one is about as indivdual a journey as any of us ever take.  There's no one right way to handle it, and as long as it is not self-destructive, no one else has the right to criticize.  Actually, I can't imagine any woman who was mourning the loss of a man she loved giving a damn what anyone thought, much less altering her way of mourning to suit others.

If only it was as simple as "getting some therapy and getting on with her life".

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Misa on November 24, 2005, 11:58:43 PM

I didn't mean to imply that Vicki shouldn't have mourned Jeff's death that would have been totally inhuman. I just meant that the way they wrote her, and the way the actress played her was whiny.

They wrote that she loved Burke, and this was played out so that you believed that they were very much in love. Vicki didn't get all whiny when she believed that Burke died, in fact they hardly had her mourn him at all (a mistake). The writers made it seem that she completely forgot all about him.

By making her get over Burke so quickly, then having her fall in love with Jeff, then when she loses him have her mourn him in such a self-destructive way. She just didn't seem like Vicki (and it makes you wonder why she never mourned for Burke even more). I have known people who have lost those they love, they never seemed to become as self absorbed as Vicki does, they still were concerned about the other people in their lifes. Yes, it takes time to get over the loss of a loved one. but if Vicki was this distraught why didn't anyone try and get her some help, especially after she tried to kill herself. The 60s were a time when people went to see psychiatrists, and got put on valium. You'd think they might have even sent her to Wyndcliff.

Then again, maybe Dan Curtis wanted the viewers to be glad when Vicki leaves and that's why she was written and played in this way. Also, perhaps if they had been able to finish this storyline with the original Vicki, it would have played better.


Misa

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on November 25, 2005, 02:30:20 AM

Quote from: Misa on November 24, 2005, 11:58:43 PM

They wrote that she loved Burke, and this was played out so that you believed that they were very much in love. Vicki didn't get all whiny when she believed that Burke died, in fact they hardly had her mourn him at all (a mistake). The writers made it seem that she completely forgot all about him.

Actually, that's not quite true. For one, Vicki didn't completely believe that Burke had died - not even after Liz told her that all 16 bodies had been recovered from the plane crash. And for another, even though she doesn't fully accept his death, Vicki continues to grieve for him into the 1795 flashback. Beginning with Ep #345, we see her initial grieving right after the plane crash. Vicki then goes off with David to Boston so that each may have some respite from the goings on in their lives, but when she returns in Ep #364, we see that her grieving process, or actually the avoidance thereof, continues when she refuses to fully accept Burke's death even after the 16 bodies have been discovered. And then after Vicki has travelled back to 1795, she looks upon her initial weeks there as a sort of dream - a dream which she's almost happy to be having because it's a diversion from her having to deal with Burke - and she comes right out and says as much to Jeremiah in today's Ep #370. By the time that Vicki meets up with Peter and begins to fall in love with him, for her it has already been almost four months since the plane crash. Even though we don't see her transition completely play out on screen, apparently by then Vicki has learned to accept Burke's death and she's ready to move on. (Not to mention she's in dire need of Peter's help, which is a deeply bonding experience in and of itself.)

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Misa on November 25, 2005, 10:51:06 PM

I guess you're right she did not truly accept Burke's death. And maybe because I just didn't like the way Vicki was played, or Jeff for that matter is why this whiny stuff bothered me so much.

I wonder what would have happened if Burke would have shown up during the 1968 love story between Jeff and Vicki?

Misa

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on November 25, 2005, 11:09:09 PM

Quote from: Misa on November 25, 2005, 10:51:06 PM

I just didn't like the way Vicki was played, or Jeff for that matter

You'd be a strange person indeed if Jeff didn't bother you.  [lghy]

Quote

I wonder what would have happened if Burke would have shown up during the 1968 love story between Jeff and Vicki?

If only we had been so lucky. I strongly suspect that Burke might have wiped the floor with Jeff and run him out of town faster than Jeff would have known what hit him!  [b003]

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Barnabas'sBride on November 26, 2005, 12:27:49 AM

I would've loved to have seen that. :)

I didn't like Vicki and Jeff's relationship to begin with, so when he disappeared into the past and she was miserable, it was hard for me to feel anything for them.

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: michael c on November 27, 2005, 01:46:42 AM

for me one of the show's most moving scenes actually does involve vicki's reaction the burke's death.

shortly after liz receives news of the plane crash she has a scene with vicki and mrs.johnson.vicki is going on about the planned renovations to the part of the house that she and burke will be living in and how happy liz has made her with the offer to allow them to live there.liz is nearly unable to deliver the bad news and when she does vicki faints as i recall.

later vicki encounters barnabas on widow's hill and there it's obvious how deeply she was affected by this tragedy. :'(

after 1795 jeff was barnabas' rival for vicki's affections.i don't know how they would have worked burke into the storyline here at all.

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Barnabas'sBride on November 27, 2005, 02:50:13 AM

I wish they had left Peter in the past and had Burke re-appear instead of bringing Jeff into the mix. But then, they probably didn't feel Burke would go with the direction they were taking the show in. I think it would've been far more interesting though.

mscbryk - I remember those scenes and I thought they were well done, especially when Elizabeth and Mrs. Johnson find out and then have to tell Vicki. It's funny because I'm not a huge Burke fan, but I missed the character when he was gone.

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Midnite on November 27, 2005, 03:14:04 AM

Quote from: Barnabas'sBride on November 27, 2005, 02:50:13 AM

I'm not a huge Burke fan, but I missed the character when he was gone.

Out of curiosity, since Anthony George's contract was up, would you have still wished for Burke to return if it meant a new (3rd) actor would be playing him?

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: michael c on November 27, 2005, 03:29:26 AM

how long was anthony george's contract for?

it seemed like he was on the show for less than a year.

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Barnabas'sBride on November 27, 2005, 03:44:17 AM

Quote from: Midnite on November 27, 2005, 03:14:04 AM

Out of curiosity, since Anthony George's contract was up, would you have still wished for Burke to return if it meant a new (3rd) actor would be playing him?

Honestly, I'm not sure. I'm not too big on recasts, especially multiple recasts like what would be the case for Burke. I suppose it would depend on who they got for the role. For example, I liked Carolyn Groves as Vicki much better than Betsy Durkin. I could've possibly warmed up to Groves as Vicki, which never would've been the case for Durkin. But Vicki's almost an impossible character to recast because she was such a major, major character. Of course, Burke was a major player in the beginning, but for some reason the transition wasn't too bad for me when they went from Ryan to George, though I liked Ryan. I'm not sure why.

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Midnite on November 27, 2005, 05:16:49 AM

Quote from: mscbryk on November 27, 2005, 03:29:26 AM

how long was anthony george's contract for?

Six months

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Misa on November 27, 2005, 08:32:25 AM

They would have had time to get someone good if they wanted to recast him.

So yes, rather then having Peter show up and think he's Jeff, but has amnesia, I would have liked them to bring Burke back.

They never explained about who Jeff Clark was. Was he someone whom Peter possessed? And what about what Dr. Lang said about him having killed someone or something? I can't remember exactly what it was. But I remember he said something about him having been a patient in a mental hospital for the criminally insane.

If Peter was simply possessing someone, how did he happen to find someone that looked just like he did?

Misa

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: michael c on November 27, 2005, 06:39:40 PM

good question misa.

they never really did explain who jeff clark was.vicki nearly ran him down very shortly after she returned to the present from 1795.but according to dr.lang jeff had been in his employ for some time and before that he was in some sort of institution for the criminally insane.so all this had been happening to jeff while peter was still alive in 1795?since vicki had only been in the past for minutes in the present was jeff in collinsport before the seance?would their meeting have had any signifigance if it happened before her trip to the past?

also they have jeff/peter return to the past during the betsy durkin episodes.i wonder if they knew it wasn't working out and just needed to wrap the character and the storyline up(with assurances to roger davis he would be almost immediately brought back as another character).if alexandra hadn't left i wonder if jeff would have remained in the present or if his departure was inevitable?

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Midnite on November 28, 2005, 03:07:57 AM

Quote from: Misa on November 27, 2005, 08:32:25 AM

They never explained about who Jeff Clark was. Was he someone whom Peter possessed?

Yes, he was.  In the same scene in which Stokes sarcastically asked Barnabas if he thought him some sort of travel agent through time, Stokes said he had given Jeff's situation a great deal of thought before arriving at his theory that a man living the present named Jeff Clark became possessed by the spirit of Peter Bradford, and when Peter was pulled back to his own time the borrowed body was returned to whatever part of the world it was from.  (#660)  And as a friend recently shared with me, Stokes' theories were often used on DS to to neatly tie up loose ends and are often the closest things to facts that we get.  :)

Quote

And what about what Dr. Lang said about him having killed someone or something? I can't remember exactly what it was. But I remember he said something about him having been a patient in a mental hospital for the criminally insane.

Lang told him that he had strangled 3 women, but Jeff eventually broke into his records in order to read his own file and saw the words "No homicidal tendencies."  (#487)  Soon after, Jeff told Vicki that Lang lied in order to keep a hold on him.

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on December 21, 2005, 02:03:39 AM

And besides Stokes' explanation, I completely forgot:

(http://www.dsboards.com/eventimages/1220ds_10.jpg)
Ep #650 - Peter explains that Vicki really did marry him and that his spirit was allowed to exist
inside a man named Jeff Clark's body for a while before he had to return to his own time.

Funny how some of us do remember Stokes' theory but we completely forgot about Peter's own explanation. Now, I wonder just why THAT is?   [santa_wink]  [santa_grin]

Title: Re: DS women of present time.
Post by: Midnite on December 21, 2005, 03:34:22 AM

Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on December 21, 2005, 02:03:39 AM

Funny how some of us do remember Stokes' theory but we completely forgot about Peter's own explanation. Now, I wonder just why THAT is?

Heh, heh.  I thought I remembered Jeff, er, Peter saying it, then assumed I was mistaken when I couldn't find it.  I thought the conversation took place on their wedding night (before he disappeared), but now I realize I was off by several eps.  Thanks, MB!