DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '05 II => Topic started by: Roland on November 03, 2005, 02:35:46 AM
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I'm currently watching the early episodes of the first "parallel time" storyline, the one set in 1970. This was the period when most of the "A" players in the cast - Barnabas, Julia, Elizabeth, Roger, Carolyn, Maggie etc. - were off filming the first "Dark Shadows" movie. As a result, the story is forced to rely on many of the second-stringers to take up the slack. The only exceptions are Quentin and Angelique, who have prominent roles in this section. Otherwise, Barnabas is locked in his coffin, Julia (the servant) has been sent away for a "vacation," Maggie has fled to her sister's, and Carolyn, Elizabeth and Roger make infrequent appearances if they show up at all.
Thanks to all this, I'm afraid this section contains what is, for me, the single worst plotline in all of "Dark Shadows" - the Jeckyl and Hyde ripoff involving the repulsive John Yaeger. That story is sooooooo tedious and boring that I can barely get through the episodes. I wonder if the show lost a significant percentage of its viewership during this arid period.
I can't wait for the key actors to make their way back and get the story rolling again.
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I wonder if the show lost a significant percentage of its viewership during this arid period.
Nope. The ratings took a significant nosedive during Leviathans but began rebounding during 1970PT.
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Wow, I love 1970PT! I find it to be one of my favourite plots! Lara Parker is in most of the episodes--maybe that's why I like it so much. I actually like the Jekyll and Hyde plot better than I did before, now that I've seen it all again. Elizabeth Eis is spectacular as Buffie, even though Sabrina is really irritating, as usual.
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Hmm. I really loved the Longworth/Yaeger storyline and thought Chris Pennock made an excellent, vile and loathsome Hyde-based character. Yaeger is supposed to be repulsive. He embodies the essence of evil. Pennock did an excellent job with Longworth too, who was fairly true to the Jekyll character in Stevenson's novella. Part of Jekyll wants to be Hyde. Through Hyde, he can live out his deepest, darkest desires but starts to lose control as the evil side becomes more powerful and more depraved. I thought the DS version was done well, and stayed fairly true to the character/s in the book. Like Hyde, Yaeger is truly a loathsome, evil fiend. He has no redeeming features...other than his nose of course. ;)
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I'm not crazy about either of the PT storylines.
1841 PT being my least liked storyline.
In the 1970 PT I Quentin was whiny and dull.
I did enjoy Yeager/Longworth plot. I thought that
was a hoot. The worst was Barnabas falling for Roxanne though.
Julianka
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The 1970 PT storyline was one of the better parts of the later DS- a much needed "return to glory" after the Leviathan mess. Much has been made over the fact that for a couple of weeks the show revovled around David Selby, Lara Parker, Michael Stroka, Lisa Richards and Denise Nickerson while other cast members were filming HODS. There's something I'd like to address. There were actors on the film who had to juggle both the show and HODS, yet there were DS stars in the film who didn't appear in the PT storyline- why? To bolster the show up a bit, Dan Curtis could have brought Roger Davis back to the show as a PT Ned Stuart for a few episodes and have him run up against John Yeager. Also, what about Dennis Patrick, Terry Crawford and Paul Michael? They were in HODS and could've been brought back to the series. Better yet, this would've been a golden opportunity to get Alexandra Moltke back to DS in a different role- she always wanted to play a bad girl on the show, and having her in a different role in PT would've pleased her and brought longtime fans who had left during Leviathan back to the show. Talk about missed opportunities!!! I've always wondered about a Vicki- Quentin pairing!
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Worst things about PT... the fact that the alternate choices idea is completely bungled... they just use PT as yet another excuse to knock all the pieces off the chess board and start all over again, without giving thought to anything making any sense. Apparently Quentin's different life choice was to be born in the 20th century, instead of the 19th. If I'm wrong, and different choices could actually have led to what we saw in PT, please tell me.
Secondly... the whole opportunity of PT was wasted by just doing Jeckyl and Hyde without a new twist, when it was a big cliche of 60s television already, and Hitchcock's "Rebecca", a movie I may not have seen as a kid, but I certainly had by the time I got the tapes in 2002. It's a major old Cary Grant movie. You can't build and build to a big climax that's exactly the same as in the movie you're stealing from. (Hoffman taunting Maggie to jump out the window.) Sure, with Barnabas we'd all seen Dracula, but did they redo that story? No, they added original twists, most notably the business about medically treating the vampire, and eventually making him the protagonist. That MADE the series. If Barnabas's story had just been Dracula's, verbatim, who would have cared?
PT gets watchable once Rebecca and Jeckyl and Hyde get resolved.
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Apparently Quentin's different life choice was to be born in the 20th century, instead of the 19th. If I'm wrong, and different choices could actually have led to what we saw in PT, please tell me.
This isn't necessarily true. Maybe the Quentin of 1897 PT was vastly different from 1897 RT Quentin, in that he married and had a son that survived, sans a werewolf curse, and this son had a son, who had a son etc...and at some point one of the descendants of the "original" 1897 PT Quentin named his son Quention after him. Thus we have a 1970 PT man named Quentin after his ancestor and not under a werewolf curse.
Sound reasonable? ;)
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I think I like 1970 PT so much, because I see an atmosphere--yes, atmosphere--far different than that of the Leviathan storyline (a plot which I really like, but I felt it went downhill once Jeb shows up). With the Leviathans, you get a feeling of skin-crawling uneasiness. That whole plot was so repulsive and almost grotesque especially in the latter half. But with PT...everything is so superficially beautiful. Collinwood is bright, flowery, and well-ordered. The people lilving there are generally successful (or once successful) artistic types, and the queen bee, the deceased Angelique, is the very hub of a Renaissance-esque cultural centre. It all *seems* so very nice and comforting and "normal," especially compared to the preceding Leviathan antics. Angelique herself is gorgeous--she never looked more lovely than in spring/summer of 1970.
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I didn't care for the Jekyll/Hyde story, either (especially when Yaeger's nose was so huge in the first few episodes that it got its own billing), but it did have its moments, particularly the presense of the wonderful Buffy Harrington. She has always remained one of my favorite "secondary" characters of any story or plotline. Why, she was the only character in all of Dark Shadows who ever had a television set. Not even one in all of Normal Time had a set.
There were many other vibrant and magnificent characters in PT1970. I've gone on and one before about the dynamic, Tennessee Williamsesque Will and Carolyn Loomis. Auntie Hannah was a wonderful hoot, always dressed in her Carol Brady pants-suit outfit. And who would not want to have Hoffman as their housekeeper, having her answer the door when somebody on the other side is all set to say: "Have you heard about the Watchtower....?" Elizabeth Stoddard, as the poor relation, maintained a sense of dignity and gentleness. Roger, also the other poor relation, remained Roger no matter what band of time he was in.
Gerard
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I don't mean to be critical, Magnus, but your ignorance is blazing through. First, it's spelled Jekyll. Second, Rebecca starred Laurence Olivier, not Cary Grant, and it so happens to be my favorite Hitchcock film, and the DS writers certainly did a good job in borrowing from the film for the 1970PT Angelique storyline. In case you forgot (and you probably did!), in the film Rebecca stayed dead, whereas on DS Angelique came back to wreak all sorts of havoc, and she had a twin sister, something Rebecca DeWinter didn't have! There were plenty of original twists to both of the "ripped-off" storylines you deplore. Now that the episodes are on DVD, may I suggest you actually WATCH them, as well as Rebecca and any major film/TV version of Jekyll and Hyde you desire, including the fab Dan Curtis version starring Jack Palance! The next time you post something so venal regarding the DS storyline, be sure to check your facts first!!!!!
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Secondly... the whole opportunity of PT was wasted by just doing Jeckyl and Hyde without a new twist, when it was a big cliche of 60s television already, and Hitchcock's "Rebecca", a movie I may not have seen as a kid, but I certainly had by the time I got the tapes in 2002. It's a major old Cary Grant movie.
You mean Lawrence Olivier...Cary Grant isn't in REBECCA...
That'd be NOTORIOUS- the other Hitchcock film Dan Curtis stole from for NODS... ;D
Jeez, Charles that's way beyond harsh...Take it down a notch, please. We're all friends here.
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I'm not sure that Roger is exactly the same in PT, Gerard.
[spoiler]I just can't imagine our Roger murdering someone in cold blood, I can imagine him having an affair, but not murdering her. Nope, I can't see him murdering her. He let Burke go to prison for his manslaughter, but he never murdered anyone outright.[/spoiler]
Misa
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PT 1970 would have been a good place to set things up based on the original premise. Have Elizabeth Collins Malloy as a widow. Bring a PT Burke Devlin for Barnabas to deal with. A PT Dr. Woodard making appearances when needed. Let Roger be the one who spent five years in prision for manslaughter. Have the first actor as caretaker Matthew Morgan.
The only character mentioned who had been gone from the series was Sam Evans who drowned on Jamison Collins' yacht.
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I think I need to clarify something in my opening post. I don't dislike the PT storyline per se. I think the Angelique/Alexis stuff is fine.
I would also like to defend the Leviathon story somewhat. I think the writers did a good job making Jeb a complex villain. The fact that he wants so desperately to become a good person because of his love for Carolyn ends up making him a rather poignant figure. I think that Jeb and Carolyn make one of the only truly "sexy" couples DS ever came up with, and much of that is due to the fact that Jeb is a "bad boy" trying to be good. There is a real tension in that relationship that is often lacking in the other romances.
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I don't mean to be critical, Magnus, but your ignorance is blazing through. First, it's spelled Jekyll. Second, Rebecca starred Laurence Olivier, not Cary Grant, and it so happens to be my favorite Hitchcock film, and the DS writers certainly did a good job in borrowing from the film for the 1970PT Angelique storyline. In case you forgot (and you probably did!), in the film Rebecca stayed dead, whereas on DS Angelique came back to wreak all sorts of havoc, and she had a twin sister, something Rebecca DeWinter didn't have! There were plenty of original twists to both of the "ripped-off" storylines you deplore. Now that the episodes are on DVD, may I suggest you actually WATCH them, as well as Rebecca and any major film/TV version of Jekyll and Hyde you desire, including the fab Dan Curtis version starring Jack Palance! The next time you post something so venal regarding the DS storyline, be sure to check your facts first!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
Sorry about that ignorance of mine blazing through, and everything. So, what, I left an "l" off "Jekyll"?
I thought I'd stopped getting Notorious and Rebecca mixed up years ago. I don't know why I do that. "I don't mean to be critical."?? "Venal"?? I'm fully aware that the whole supernatural aspect with the twins, witchcraft, the wife coming back, was new. (To me. that may have come from someplace else too.) I guess that part didn't interest me so much, except the end of Alexis was unusually jarring. The storyline with Maggie's intimidation by Hoffman and her misunderstanding of the relationship of Angelique to Q, leading up to the window scene, was the same, and the payoff being the same was very frustrating to me. The Jekyll (I'm trusting your spelling on that since you're the expert)-Hyde part was tiresome to me. I don't care about any little details that might be different, nothing was fresh about it to me.
PT 1970 isn't an orphan child I've tied to the railroad tracks. Nothing to get angry about. You have some good points. I've had the videotapes since 2002 and have watched them repeatedly. I hope I get more out of PT someday.
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Apparently Quentin's different life choice was to be born in the 20th century, instead of the 19th. If I'm wrong, and different choices could actually have led to what we saw in PT, please tell me.
This isn't necessarily true. Maybe the Quentin of 1897 PT was vastly different from 1897 RT Quentin, in that he married and had a son that survived, sans a werewolf curse, and this son had a son, who had a son etc...and at some point one of the descendants of the "original" 1897 PT Quentin named his son Quention after him. Thus we have a 1970 PT man named Quentin after his ancestor and not under a werewolf curse.
Sound reasonable? ;)
Well, Buzz, I have no choice but to say yes, since this is just what they did with 1840 and 1897 Quentin. I do feel a bit stupid about this, but... I do remember thinking there was a lot of chaos that was unexplainable in PT, that they just made up on the spot. But the only other thing I could think of was the twins being Stokeses. It must have been that original Angelique showed up at Collinsport not witchy, not bitter, just happy to serve, and falls in love with Ben. Alright, my memory does have certain problems for medical reasons, but was there anything else, or does PT 1970 actually make sense?!
As for Roger, has anyone noticed that for awhile in PT, he stopped being alternative sleazy no-good sarcastic layabout Roger, and started acting exactly like regular stuffy dignified responsible Roger? Then eventually someone remembered and fixed this...?
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I abhor! the Yaeger/Hyde scenes, but, I personally enjoy PT Quentin. Perhaps because he's 'normal', ie not a supernatural creature.
Grayson was a hoot and 3/8ths!!
Angelexis was very enjoyable (and IIRC, she was not in HoDS).
The Roger part...I dunno, in PT, perhaps/maybe he could've killed someone in cold blood.
Also....we cannot forget the wonderful! terrific! William Loomis and his 'blushing' ^-^ bride!!
Patti
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Well, Buzz, I have no choice but to say yes, since this is just what they did with 1840 and 1897 Quentin. I do feel a bit stupid about this, but... I do remember thinking there was a lot of chaos that was unexplainable in PT, that they just made up on the spot. But the only other thing I could think of was the twins being Stokeses. It must have been that original Angelique showed up at Collinsport not witchy, not bitter, just happy to serve, and falls in love with Ben. Alright, my memory does have certain problems for medical reasons, but was there anything else, or does PT 1970 actually make sense?!
LOL, well, I actually have never SEEN 1970 PT, I've only read the Concordance by Kathleen Resch...BUT, I *do* have it now on DVD, just have to get to it, I can't wait! I've never seen Leviathan either (can't wait to see Barnabas driving! Who taught him anyway? ^-^)
I like your idea of a 1795 PT Angie showing up and will to be a servent who marries Ben, sounds like a great idea of a fan fic. ;) However, having just read the Concordance recently, the twins were actually his step-daughters, not biological ones. :)
Regarding your thoughts that the writers just made it up as they went along, I think KLS once said at a Festival that that's EXACTLY what they did, LOL! Good eye.
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I really enjoy the Rebecca -esque storyline with the looming presence of Quentin's dead wife affecting Maggie. I also really like how things are sort of the inverse of what they are in RT. For example, in PT Liz & Roger are the poor relations, Willie traps Barnabas in his coffin as opposed to releasing him from the coffin, Julia wants to destroy Barnabas instead of saving him, etc. Really neat stuff, IMO.
I have to say, in all honesty, I haven't met a DS storyline I didn't like. My least favorite is probably 1841 PT but there are lots of cool parts to that storyline too. I enjoyed the lottery and the whole Wuthering Heights quality. It was interesting and fun watching Frid and Parker in different roles. My main gripe with 1841PT is the fact that they totally severed any link to the regular time-band. As viewers, we always had a link to the regular time (Barnabas, Vicki, Julia, etc). With 1841PT, the touchstone to the main time band was totally removed, which I personally didn't care for. Despite that, I still enjoyed the storyline for what it was - a creative exercise in "let's see what it would have been like if Barnabas hadn't been turned into a vampire" mixed with Shirley Jackson's The Lottery. Fun stuff, but I just wish it had some bearing on the regular time-band.
~Penny Dreadful~
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I've never seen Leviathan either (can't wait to see Barnabas driving! Who taught him anyway? ^-^)
Buzz, if I'm not mistaken, the driving occurs prior to PT; Vicki is in automobile w/Barnabas. [spoiler]It's actually before the Adam storyline. It's why Barnabas has to go to hospital, etc.[/spoiler]
Patti
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Vicky was driving the car in the episode.
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Buzz, if I'm not mistaken, the driving occurs prior to PT; Vicki is in automobile w/Barnabas.
I believe BuzzH is referring to [spoiler]the Leviathan episode where Barnabas runs down Grant Douglas (aka Quentin). Barnabas is the driver in that episode.[/spoiler]
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Vicky was driving the car in the episode.
Very true, it was Vickie driving and she swerved to miss mowing down Jeff Clark and that's when the accident occured. (Don't we all wish she'd mowed him down in light of who played him, LOL!) >:D
Getting back to Barnabas driving, he was actually able to drive before Leviathan. During the 1968 storyline, I'm not sure exactly when and can't remember if it was when Quentin and Beth were haunting Collinwood, but he has to drive somewhere for some reason, and Stokes let's him borrow his car. Stokes goes to the Old House and says he left his car by the gate w/the keys in it for Barnabas to borrow. But we don't actually *see* him driving in that instance. ;)
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it was Vickie driving and she swerved to miss mowing down Jeff Clark and that's when the accident occured.
Are you sure it wasn't Bozo Bradford that she was trying to avoid hitting? As I recall, the oversized clown shoes may have been a dead giveaway.
And no, I haven't completely lost it. ;D Check out:
I can think of one other actor's shoes (heh) that Bozo the clown could've stepped into successfully-- Roger Davis'. Particularly as lawyer Peter Bradford. ;D
Sort of like this:
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In watching these great episodes from Spring 1970 on DVD again, I do notice at first that as the filming of HODS began, there was an effort made to have at least one of the HODS actors in a PT episode. After a week or so, from about the tape date of about March 23rd (the 1st day of HODS filming) to April 27th it's strictly the "B" team, with the blessed additions of Misses Laurence and Eis and the return of Jerry Lacy to DS. David Henesy does make a few episodes, but to repeat my earlier question, why didn't Curtis and Miner bring back other DS regulars to fill in the gaps left by Frid, Hall, Scott et al? Why weren't Chris Bernau of Geoffrey Scott asked back? And what about Humbert Allen Astredo- he played Dr. Forbes in HODS, and he was brought back for 1840, so why not PT- he was (and is) a popular figure for his roles on the show. OK, Donna McKechnie was doing "Company" on Broadway, but she could've been asked to play Jennifer Evans (a part that may have been Marie Wallace's if she hadn't left for "Somerset"- either that character or Buffie Harrington). Fortunately for us, there are great moments in those four "B Team" weeks- John Yeager makes his first onscreen appearance as Angelique returns bigtime (I defy you to say that the Angelique/Alexis confrontation-body switch isn't one of the most heartstopping episodes in DS history), the late Paula Laurence makes a lasting impression in her all-too-brief role as Hannah Stokes, the intro of Buffie and Dameon Edwards' ghost, and Jerry Lacy as a butler Trask!