DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '05 II => Topic started by: stefan on October 01, 2005, 09:58:10 PM

Title: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: stefan on October 01, 2005, 09:58:10 PM
Well, I guess the days when the Collins' leading matriarch Naomi would moan "...when will all this END?!..." is over. Now it's "That Crazy Collins family" where no-one blinks an eye over the ghostly possession of Charity Trask in her frills and feathers or a sullen Barnbabas (from England again) skulking about after plunging a stake through the heart of another doppleganger vampire Barnabas. The supernatural has taken over the family and everyone has their own supernatural life/death struggle to care or notice what anyone else does.

Anyway, all the acting is terrific though and the regulars improved tremendously. The casting crew really had a knack for talent. But, that all said:

My worst 1897 storylines so far: Count Petrofi - way too much airtime spent on this nonesense but Thayer D. is always excellent. All the Petrofi hangers-on - Aristede, the Blackmore fellow with the chains, the crickly glove/hand, the possession of Quention. It was just all too much and too much time spent away from the more interesting Collins stuff ...

The best and makes it worth watching so far: Kitty/Josette reincarnation and Barnabas. Very very engaging and sad because barely touched upon (barely stuck in between Petrofi's trance). The chemistry was right too and it appears KLS started to take the Josette/Barnabas pairing seriously and was touchingly sincere and believable. Also, I sensed a new maturity in KLS. What a great Kitty/Barnie and Edward triangle it would have made!!

Judith and Trask. Judith locking her Trask husband in a room and calling him periodically was fantastic. Fantastic acting by Joan Bennett and Jerry Lacy (who is much more solid). Great writing and tone.

The sullen Collins crowd: Judith, Edward, Charity (such as she is), Edith. Quentin is a handsome dude but I wished they gave him more interesting stuff to do.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: AndreDuPres on October 02, 2005, 03:01:12 AM
I completely agree, although I find the Quentin-Petofi switcheroo pretty exciting since it's the last time we get to see Selby as a villain with a purpose rather than some languid loafer who has nothing to do as in the succeedng storyline.  I *love* the Barnabas-Kitty plot--it's *the* best Josette spin-off, and I dare say it's better than their original relationship.  You're spot on about KLS's maturity--she seems so in control of the character and her acting ability.  Oh, I so wish they had given her more development!  An Edward-Kitty-Barnabas love triangle would have been perfect, but, alas, we only get Judith stating, "What will Edward say?" in that last 1897 episode. 
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: stefan on October 02, 2005, 07:20:49 AM
Quote
I *love* the Barnabas-Kitty plot--it's *the* best Josette spin-off, and I dare say it's better than their original relationship.  You're spot on about KLS's maturity--she seems so in control of the character and her acting ability.  Oh, I so wish they had given her more development!  An Edward-Kitty-Barnabas love triangle would have been perfect, but, alas, we only get Judith stating, "What will Edward say?" in that last 1897 episode. 

With both Frid and KLS in top form they wasted the opportunity to clarify and deepen an uneven but potentially beautiful romance. It would have also have finally given Josette the voice she was never allowed in 1795. When Kitty started to talk about being afraid of Angelique and that she was her maid I thought "YES!" please go there, allow Josette to understand that Angelique was the witch and that her fiancee had sexual relations with her. What drama that all would have made and, in addition, you have a lovely Edward not to be entirely pushed aside, plus the whole ghostly possession thing (though they already had the Charity Trask possession). Not to take away from the Charity storyline because Nancy B. seems to be having a blast, it would have been ghostly possession with characters the audience was already familiar with and with storylines left unopened and underdeveloped. It would have made perfect sense and why they didn't explore it much more is beyond me. As example, you have a beautifully staged Kitty/Barnabas/Josette scene and then next Barnabas is wandering about looking for Petrofi or Quentin. The writing just lost its focus by that time I think. I mean, why else would they have Barnabas meet hooded goblins, straight out of a Star Trek episode, stopping him from meeting Kitty. I was so dissapointed and right when things were just starting to heat up between those two!
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Barnabas'sBride on October 02, 2005, 02:00:42 PM
I love 1897. There are parts that dragged for me, and Petofi did become a bit tiring after a while (though he was a good villian, I loathed him so much), but overall I was just glued to the television while I was watching it. I thought many of the characters were interesting and fun to watch. I liked the dynamic between the Collins siblings, the Judith/Trask storyline, Charity-Pansy, Quentin/Beth and the changes that Quentin went through.

I wish Kitty had been brought into 1897 earlier. I loved Barnabas and Kitty, though it seemed like the storyline ended right when they met. I think that's part of the reason why I despised the beginning of the Leviathan storyline so much, Kitty was just dropped. I would've loved more than anything to see how the Josette/Kitty angle played out over time, her having two different personalities (Josette, Kitty). Because the storyline is only at the end of 1897, it almost comes off at times like Josette possessed her, rather than the way I think of it - that Josette and Kitty were the same person and Kitty was just a more mature, life hardened version of Josette. Still, I loved what little we got of Barnabas/Kitty. I wanted him to take her back to the present, when they were seperated (even though I knew they would be) I was very disappointed. So much potential lost.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Gothick on October 02, 2005, 10:04:17 PM
Personally, I love all the wild and woolly antics of the 1897/Count Petofi storyline.  I think a lot of the credit for how good it was goes not only to Thayer David and the rest of the cast, but to Violet Welles who seems to have had the knack of using the supernatural intelligently in a television screenplay.  She wrote all the best 1897 episodes in my not-so-humble opinion.

As for Kitty, I think she's much more interesting in her original persona.  I find the whole Josette-rediviva thing a snooze-fest, although I agree that KLS and Frid had a wonderful chemistry together.  I just find the chance the original Kitty character gave KLS to show that she knew how to do more than just fall apart onscreen to have created some of her finest moments on the series.  Once Josie starts seriously taking over, that comes to an end.

I guess we all find personal strengths and weaknesses, favorites and not-so-favorites, in watching this extraordinary series.

G.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Misa on October 04, 2005, 02:44:44 AM
I loved the Count Petofi story so much, I also was loving the Kitty, Barnabas, Edward triangle. I wish that instead of doing the Leviathan story they could have stayed in the past and told the Kitty story to a grand completion.

I agree with Barnabas' Bride that Kitty and Josette were the same person, Kitty was the reincarnation of Josette, her memories were being reawakened. If only the writers would have showed this instead of having her drawn into the portrait and her whole Kitty personality being lost. "Boo" Then they show the 1796 thing again, BORING" and once again Josette kills herself, I just don't think she would have done this. By having her kill herself they made her seem to be such a weak person. "Oh boo-hoo Barnabas left me, I'm going to kill myself. What about her duty to her aunt and father? And to the Collins family? After she married Jeramiah she became a member of the Collins family. I just hated this part of the Kitty story. Kitty was a fighter, she becomes Josette and is a quitter. Yuck! Crap! Bad writing!

A love triangle with Barnabas and Edward would have been such fun! And wasn't it fun to see Josette as a gold digger? The scenes they could have had between Angelque and Kitty would have been delish.

What a missed opportunity. Poor KLS, this was the best character besides early Maggie that she was given. If only...

Misa
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Patti Feinberg on October 04, 2005, 12:17:40 PM
Quote from: Misa
And wasn't it fun to see Josette as a gold digger?

I was thinking the same thing Misa. I wish they could have expounded on this facet of Kitty too.

For me, Petofi was T H E funnest part of DS; I really couldn't stand the Beth/Quentin/Jenny/Angelique issue(s). It also would've been fun to watch additional identify crises, ie Edward and Charity on other characters. Hmm...Barnabas could fancy himself a butterfly...

Patti
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Josette on October 04, 2005, 09:36:18 PM
There were lots of intriguing possibilities with the Kitty story.

[spoiler]Aside from what we learned about her in her letters home, which were obviously quite different from what she was pretending to Edward, so that story had lots of potential, there was also the fact that both Edward and Kitty thought the other had a lot of money and that's why they were so interested in each other.  How that would have played out would have been lots of fun.[/spoiler]

Some of the Josette reincarnation part wasn't too bad.  It could have been incorporated into her main story, but once they abandoned that and just turned her into Josette, it was very disappointing.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: stefan on October 05, 2005, 12:14:38 AM
Quote
I agree with Barnabas' Bride that Kitty and Josette were the same person, Kitty was the reincarnation of Josette, her memories were being reawakened. If only the writers would have showed this instead of having her drawn into the portrait and her whole Kitty personality being lost. "Boo" Then they show the 1796 thing again, BORING" and once again Josette kills herself,

I wonder why they had Josette kill herself again? I wonder if they felt it added to the BarnabasJosette pathos. Maybe they just wanted a lead into the next storyline which came about very suddenly. I could have gone for a Josette reincarnation or a Josette ghostly Kitty takeover. Both of those possibilities would have been great. It's interesting that it appeared Josette (if she were separate) was aggressively taking over the mind of Kitty. Was Barnabas in cahoots about this? I thought I heard Barnabas soliquizing that he wanted Kitty to be Josette. I thought the image of Kitty floating up into the Josette portrait really beautiful and affective but since I havn't watched more of "normal" Kitty I can't connect to her yet. I'll have to buy more CDs of early 1897.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Misa on October 05, 2005, 12:37:01 AM
The way Kitty was drawn into the portrait was really well done, and beautiful. Having said that though, I just wish they would have had Kitty stay herself with the memories of her previous life now intact. As others have said Kitty was a fascinating character.

The Josette time line change they showed just made the already tangled up 1795 more messy. Each time they went back to 1795/-6 they changed something. The way it was the first time was beautiful, each change just messed it up. This change also made Josette into a weeker character. She originally killed herself only because Angelique frightened her with what she would become if she went to Barnabas. Before Barnabas had bitten her she certainly wasn't going to kill herself. Now she kills herself, what is the reason? "Dumb, dumb, dumb."

And what a waste of a great character, Kitty. Oh crumb! If they do a remake perhaps they can fix this, and explore this character more.

Misa
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: michael c on October 05, 2005, 12:57:36 AM
i just started to watch the storyline so these are my random comments thus far...

so far i'm really enjoying the story for the most part.for me it's a bit like a new beginning.i always watched the show with vicki as my focus character and this is really the first storyline that she is squarely not a part of.while i'm not quite as emotionally involved i have a new objectivity and that's not a bad thing.i can enjoy it or not on it's own terms.

so far i'm liking the mix of the supernatural and more "human" storylines(edith's will,jenny,worthington hall).i like that joan bennett has a great part to play in judith collins.she has such chemistry with david selby.they have a few "come into my parlour said the spider to the fly" moments that are priceless.i can see why mr.selby became such a hit with viewers.he's tremendously charasmatic.i love jenny and feel that marie wallace brought pathos and a smidgen of sweetness to a character that could easily have been a standard-issue psycho.and what can i say about the return of laura collins?her 1966 story was and is a personal favorite and seeing her again is great.especially her scenes with joan and louis edmonds...seems like old times in a way.

my only apprehension with it is that it lasts so long.i'm only about forty episodes into it and it's much longer than that.it's thus far been pretty tight but it sounds like the middle/end gets a bit all-over-the-place and that's where my patience with the show can wear thin.time will tell. :P
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: stefan on October 05, 2005, 03:31:15 AM
Quote
my only apprehension with it is that it lasts so long.i'm only about forty episodes into it and it's much longer than that.it's thus far been pretty tight but it sounds like the middle/end gets a bit all-over-the-place and that's where my patience with the show can wear thin.time will tell.

I was getting impatient watching the Petrofi stuff, it seems like one thing after another. Just never ending gloom and doom from show to show (a big problem for DS after awhile there's so much "terror and evil" you can't take anything seriously).  Petrofi inhabits Quentin, Quentin comes back to himself, Petrofi inhabits Quentin again ... anyway, the 1897 I've watched so far could use some lightness and comic relief. 1795 had early Millicent as a comic figure, the Collins early bickering had some comic touches (though with dark undercurrents) and Andres Dupres cracked me up sometimes with his no-nonesense attitude. Even Angelique/Ben scenes had some funny dialogue.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Julianka7 on October 05, 2005, 04:16:18 AM
One of my favorite 1897 moments was when Nora saw her mother in the drawing room fire.
When Edward wanted to take Nora back in to show her she hadn't, Nora planted her feet and
stiffen her little body. Both Denise and Loius did a great acting job.
Julianka
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Josette on October 05, 2005, 07:10:20 AM
Now that you've mentioned Nora, a moment I particularly liked, and I think my favorite Denise Nickerson moment, was when Edward was trying to get Lady Kitty to play with Nora and hoping for them to get along.  Nora had a lot of sharp comments to her.  It was a great scene.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: MagnusTrask on October 05, 2005, 05:54:07 PM
1897 is my favorite period, (almost) everything to do with Petofi in particular.    That hand was lodged in my memory for the thirty years it took for me to see it again.    I love all the characters and complicated interwoven storylines.    There is humor but not much in the way of lightness-- Tim Shaw expected to get the hand from Quentin after Petofi actually has re-attached it by that point, is priceless.   Tim goes rushing out into the night determined to get it back, when everyone but him knows he can't...

Carl suddenly re-appearing in the gloomiest of moments is fun.    Carl's later exit isn't.   Trask has one of the most fun deaths you're ever going to see.    Charity Fay is always a scream.    I love how everyone's just fine with leaving Charity possessed for the rest of her life, because Pansy Faye was fun, and Charity was lifeless.    Evan Hanley getting threatened and embarrassed was funny too.    Giant Quentin turning into a really short werewolf was unintentionally funny.

1897 starts falling apart for me with the Q/Petofi bodyswap.   That was silly, T David wandering around saying "I am Quentin Collins!!"... in his Petofi voice!    They redeem themselves with the very end to 1897, where

vague semi-spoiler (below)?? [spoiler]everyone's stories are tied up depressingly but satisfyingly, and I've decided it was even satisfying to me for BC to have achieved such mixed and inconclusive results, and information, after all that agony, time, and struggle.    That's life for you.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: stefan on October 06, 2005, 02:40:25 AM
Quote
Trask has one of the most fun deaths you're ever going to see.    Charity Fay is always a scream.    I love how everyone's just fine with leaving Charity possessed for the rest of her life, because Pansy Faye was fun, and Charity was lifeless.

Very true! to all of these. Let me rephrase my post in that what I meant is I missed more "normal" scenes in 1897, such as someone having a job, or running a business, or having an engagement, or playing cards etc, or going out shopping etc. One more funny episode (probably unintentionally) is when Judith asks Edward if new Barnabas #2 from England would like to "join them for dinner" after bedridden from being hounded by his twin vampire. Good ol Joan B. and Louise E. combination to lend some normalcy to a situation. I just feel 1897 is too spookridden. I also miss some of the more historically interesting comments such as Joshua had about the war or about someone "affecting a title". Just normal human tidbits that made 1795 so complete a fable.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on October 06, 2005, 05:11:02 AM
I missed more "normal" scenes in 1897, such as ... playing cards...

Evan, Tim, Judith, and (most importantly) Minerva played cards.  [wink2]
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Gothick on October 06, 2005, 01:33:43 PM
MB, I love the card playing storyline in 1897!  I regard it as DS' very own tribute to one of my favorite films--the John Frankheimer early 1960s Manchurian Candidate (accept NO substitutes or remakes!).

Clarice Blackburn was particularly wonderful in a crucial scene of this storyline...

G.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: MagnusTrask on October 07, 2005, 11:33:26 AM
Stefan... the source of the historical detail in 1897, for me, is Petofi, with all the Lord Kitchener stuff, and I wish there'd been more of it.

People just couldn't get enough of Minerva's card playing.   She should have sold tickets.    Some found it difficult to take their eyes off her.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: stefan on October 08, 2005, 11:09:52 PM
Quote
People just couldn't get enough of Minerva's card playing.   She should have sold tickets.    Some found it difficult to take their eyes off her.

I rmember Trask was crying for Minerva before he shot himself in that room. Were they married? And,so far, I havn't gotten those card playing 1897 DVDs yet. Not sure when I will as these combo DVDs are pricey. I paid over $40.00 for the 1897 set I have.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Joeytrom on October 09, 2005, 12:45:58 AM
Trask and Minerva were married for many years.   1897 was the year Dracula was published, too bad they didn't reference it on DS at the time.

I liked 1897 but it got to be tedious toward the end, I didn't like the plot involving the I Ching, the writers were just stretching the story at that point.  I would have preferred that Rachael leave town for a while and then return after realizing she was Josette's reincarnation instead of KLS playing another character who no one notices looks like Rachael.

As for Roger Davis, well, I would have cast three different actors as Ned Stuart, Dirk Wilkins, and Charles Delaware Tate. 
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: MsCriseyde on October 09, 2005, 01:22:48 AM
Trask and Minerva were married for many years.
Initially, I found it rather odd that the writers chose to give Trask's wife a name taken from Roman mythology rather than a Biblical name or a name associated with a virtue (like Charity) or a saint (like Gregory).

But it does fit the bit with the cards since the Queen of Spades is associated with Minerva.

Had Trask and Evan opted for the same approach with Judith, then the card of choice should've been the Queen of Hearts, which is associated with Judith from the apocryphal Book of Judith.

For Rachel, it should've been the Queen of Diamonds, which is associated with the Old Testament Rachel.

As far as I know, none of the other 1897 character names is associated with a specific card.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Misa on October 09, 2005, 02:20:47 AM
I rmember Trask was crying for Minerva before he shot himself in that room. Were they married?

Minerva and Gregory Trask are the parents of Charity Trask, who becomes Pansy Faye.

I'm still not sure that all of Charity was lost completely after she becomes Pansy, because the first time Petofi turns her into Charity, she says that she knows Trask is her father, "but that he's a big bore" or something to that effect. And then when Petofi turns her into Pansy completely, he says "Enjoy this life, some people won't understand, but enjoy it while it lasts." So I think that Charity and Pansy sort of blend or something.

Misa [hall2_wink]
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: MagnusTrask on October 09, 2005, 03:03:58 PM
I liked 1897 but it got to be tedious toward the end, I didn't like the plot involving the I Ching, the writers were just stretching the story at that point.

Egad... the I Ching was my favorite thing about DS.    I pestered my parents in an airport gift shop to get me a book on the I Ching that was only published, or at least only widely distributed, because of the I Ching content in DS at the time.    I love the experimentation and  wish they'd done much more of it.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: stefan on October 09, 2005, 04:22:42 PM
Quote
I would have preferred that Rachael leave town for a while and then return after realizing she was Josette's reincarnation instead of KLS playing another character who no one notices looks like Rachael. 

I almost seems like the Josette reincarnation story was an afterthought. I would have perferred it to be a front-burner for most of 1897. Seems like it was just stuck at the end and abruptly discontinued for (I guess) the Levinthian storyline. Though, I wonder if a Maggie/Josette reincarnation would have been more interesting. There does seem to be an indication that Barnabas went for the more refined, classy types and looked down on Maggie's plebian upbringing and lifestyle. If Maggie were the Josette reincarnation it might have tested the nature of Barnabas' love for Josette. Would Barnabas' love for Josette be the same if she were a poor working girl as opposed to the 1795 artistocrat? Might have brought up some interesting psyhological stuff and character analysis.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Misa on October 09, 2005, 08:31:42 PM
The fact that Rachel and Kitty looked alike and no one mentioned it was rather dumb, but, as to the Maggie/Josette thing that stefan mentioned, this would have worked with Kitty too, she was the governess to the children of the man she married. She married him for his title and wealth, she was after Edward because she mistakenly thinks he has money too. This is certainly an abrupt change from the Josette that Barnabas loved, yet she is the reincarnation of Josette. Rachel was not! Rachel seemed to have the looks of Josette and was closer to her personality than Maggie or Kitty. It has been stated that Kitty was the only true reincarnation of Josette though.

As an interesting character Kitty tops Rachel. Too bad that they didn't  have the Rachel played by someone else.

I also think, that Barnabas constantly falling in love with women who don't resemble Josette, weakens his supposed love for her. ie: Vicki and Roxanne. Although, when they first introduced Barnabas, he said that Maggie reminded him of Josette, not that she looked exactly like her, then when he failed to make her into Josette, he turned to Vicki to be the next Josette. The story wasn't completely fleshed out at this time.

When Barnabas first entered the old house he asked Josette why she hadn't protected him, after all he was a Collins, They must not have had the idea to make her his love interest yet.

Misa
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: stefan on October 09, 2005, 08:55:21 PM
Quote
I also think, that Barnabas constantly falling in love with women who don't resemble Josette, weakens his supposed love for her. ie: Vicki and Roxanne.

i agree. That is a problem. They made the same mistake (given if you are a josette/barnabas fan, which i am) with early Luke and Laura. When Laura/Genie Francis left the show they very quickly paired Luke with a bunch of women dissapointing many of their fans and General Hospital viewership in general. But, how are these people to know, except after the fact, that certain romances stick, have weight, depth, and shouldn't be messed with.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on October 09, 2005, 09:37:43 PM
But remember, by the time Barnabas becomes involved with Roxanne, the show had already decided that the Barnabas/Josette relationship should be put behind him. [spoiler]There is a scene in Ep #948 in which Josette's spirirt specifically tells Barnabas that they must release each other and he must move on with his life.[/spoiler]
As for Vicki, as Misa points out, Barnabas first turns to her because he feels she possesses all the qualities that appealed to him in Josette - and, of course, let's not forget that he originally plans on turning Vicki into Josette. Once he drops that idea, one can easily presume that Barnabas is still attracted to Vicki because of her Josette-like qualities.

When Barnabas first entered the old house he asked Josette why she hadn't protected him, after all he was a Collins, They must not have had the idea to make her his love interest yet.

It would seem likely that they had already decided that Josette had been Barnabas' love interest and that Maggie would resemble her because it was only nine episodes after Barnabas spoke to Josette's portrait that he met Maggie at the coffee shop.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Josette on October 10, 2005, 04:40:40 AM
Now that you've mentioned Nora, a moment I particularly liked, and I think my favorite Denise Nickerson moment, was when Edward was trying to get Lady Kitty to play with Nora and hoping for them to get along.  Nora had a lot of sharp comments to her.  It was a great scene.

Today's picture from episode #859 with Lady Kitty and Nora must be this scene.  I really love it!!
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on October 10, 2005, 04:54:36 AM
Today's picture from episode #859 with Lady Kitty and Nora must be this scene.  I really love it!!

Yes, it is.  [hall2_wink]

(http://www.dsboards.com/eventimages/1009ds_10.jpg)

And I completely agree that it's a great scene. And just look at that expression on Nora's face. If that isn't a girl with an attitude, I don't know what is. One almost feels sorry for Lady Kitty opposite that.  [hall2_grin]
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Patti Feinberg on October 10, 2005, 11:47:04 AM
quote from Misa
Quote
When Barnabas first entered the old house he asked Josette why she hadn't protected him, after all he was a Collins, They must not have had the idea to make her his love interest yet.

Misa....huh?? I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. Could you please elaborate?

Thanks,

Patti
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: stefan on October 11, 2005, 01:31:42 AM
Quote
Misa....huh?? I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. Could you please elaborate?

I remember that quote from Barnabas, It was a beautiful scene with JF at his BEST. It was very early Barnie just after, or maybe before, Elizabeth Stoddard give Barnabas permission to live at the old house. Barnabas goes to the old house, which is in terrible shape. cobwebs, broken panes etc. and gives a marvelous solilique. I think he even stares at Josette's portrait but can't remember entirely. Thinking about that speech it was beautiful but not quite in sync with what happened afterwards as in the Josette reference. Didn't seem lover-like but maybe family oriented, like maybe she/Josette was a relation.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on October 11, 2005, 02:34:41 AM
Thinking about that speech it was beautiful but not quite in sync with what happened afterwards as in the Josette reference. Didn't seem lover-like but maybe family oriented, like maybe she/Josette was a relation.

It could also be that the writers didn't want to give away too much too soon, preferring to keep Barnabas and Josette's true relationship less defined until he comes face to face with Maggie and that plot takes off.
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Julianka7 on October 11, 2005, 07:30:13 AM
Thinking about that speech it was beautiful but not quite in sync with what happened afterwards as in the Josette reference. Didn't seem lover-like but maybe family oriented, like maybe she/Josette was a relation.
It could also be that the writers didn't want to give away too much too soon, preferring to keep Barnabas and Josette's true relationship less defined until he comes face to face with Maggie and that plot takes off.
I have read a bit about this. When J. Frid first came on DS it was only suppost to be for a short term role.
Barnabas was suppost to be killed off.
But the character of Barnabas became so popular so fast, that that idea was thrown out and they came
up with what we ended up seeing.
Julianka
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on October 11, 2005, 06:37:21 PM
When J. Frid first came on DS it was only suppost to be for a short term role. But the character of Barnabas became so popular so fast, that that idea was thrown out and they came up with what we ended up seeing.

That's very true. But from the start Barnabas was slated to be on 13 weeks and the idea was that he would be killed off as a result of Maggie's kidnapping. And the Barnabas/Josette relationship was a major element in that plot from the very moment Maggie is first seen in Josette's room in Ep #236, only slightly more than a month into Barnabas' initial storyline and, according to Frid's own letters to his mom, long before the decision was made to extend Barnabas' run past the initial 13 weeks.  [hall2_smiley]
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Misa on October 11, 2005, 07:17:03 PM
To try and clarify my quote: David was talking to Barnabas, and he told Barnabas that "Josette's ghost always protects the members of the Collins family" Later, when Barnabas is in the Old House he looks at Josette's portrait and says "I was a Collins, why didn't you protect me?" then he says something like "Why did you let them make me into something that even my Father, blah, blah, blah." or something like this, I don't remember this part of his speech as well. However, I still don't think that this would make sense if they were alive at the same time. David is talking about her ghost, unless the writers were planning that he didn't become a vampire until after she died. Then perhaps her ghost could have protected him. If this was the case they changed it later, when Barnabas tells Vicki and Carolyn the story of Josette's death. (He was obviously a vampire and he was chasing her. It even sounded like he may have drained her before she was able to throw herself off the cliff, "Bloodless body".)

It is sightly unfortunate that the storylines weren't more true to each other. But, they were writing them over a long period of time, and there were 5 episodes a week. Continuity often isn't very good even in weekly shows that have been on for 5 years, but lack of continuity is one of my pet peeves, so I always keep the parts that I like the best, and ignore the changes, or the original part that I don't like as much as the later change.

I hope that this makes more sense.

Misa  [hall2_grin]
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Patti Feinberg on October 12, 2005, 08:14:21 PM
I remember that quote from Barnabas,  Barnabas goes to the old house...I think he even stares at Josette's portrait but can't remember entirely.

Ooooh, so Barnabas doesn't actually say it to Josette, but to her portrait?? Thanks Stefan [hall2_wink]

Patti
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on October 15, 2005, 08:40:16 PM
I missed more "normal" scenes in 1897, such as ... playing cards...

Evan, Tim, Judith, and (most importantly) Minerva played cards.  [wink2]

Until I rewatched Ep #863 today I'd completely forgotten that Edward is also seen playing cards with Judith.  [hall2_smiley]

(http://www.dsboards.com/images/ds_863-197.jpg)
Title: Re: random 1897 comments ...
Post by: stefan on October 16, 2005, 12:15:23 AM
Quote
It could also be that the writers didn't want to give away too much too soon, preferring to keep Barnabas and Josette's true relationship less defined until he comes face to face with Maggie and that plot takes off.

I guess. If they knew don't think they gave JF a clue as Barnie's classic rendition did not seem lover-like as per what eventually did happen. But, I'm sure by that time the writers were in a scramble trying to figure out just WHAT to do with Frid and Barnabas and may have been winging it as they went along. Typical soap opera stuff.