DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '05 II => Topic started by: AndreDuPres on September 25, 2005, 01:24:24 AM
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I love the feel Cassandra brings to the house as soon as she arrives--suddenly, it's like a "normal" soap again what with all that family drama and angst. I especially like what appears to be a budding friendship between Barnabas' worst enemy and his strongest advocate. Unfortunately, all that real stuff is dropped in favour of the increasingly hokey Curse/Adam crap, which, while mildly entertaining, would have been a whole lot better if they had downplayed the supernatural and actually focused on the emotions and passions as they had done more in the pre-1795 episodes. Did you guys notice the few episodes when Julia and Cassandra are laughing and talking to one another like friends? It's just so bizarre, for they never really talk/communicate any more, until that infamous slap scene.
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that's exactly how i felt.
when cassandra first showed up at collinwood i thought "boy is this going to be good!"i was imagining it to be more like the laura collins story...exploring cassandra's relationships with roger and david and carolyn and liz.with vicki and barnabas who knew who she really was.the budding friendship with julia was another aspect of this underdeveloped storyline that had great potential(remember julia knew nothing about angelique until after 1795 and her relationship with barnabas was still somewhat undefined).
but cassandra ultimately ended up playing second banana to the adam/nicholas plot before she was ousted entirely.i found this whole character/storyline to be a key example of wasted opportunities by the writers.
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In my opinion the whole Cassandra/Angelique plot was totally enigmatic. Sometimes it's hard to understand if Cassandra is Angelique or a version of Angelique or a form of Angelique. Certainly, from what I know of 1795 Angelique (and that's the time period I know the most and watch frequently) Cassandra is somewhat subdued and watered-down version of her original. Yes, one of Angelique's strength and mysteries was her ability to dissimulate and this is what made her annihilation of much of the Collins family so disturbing. 1895 Angelique is also strangly subdued as well (just started to watch some DVDs). Maybe they wanted to re-introduce Angelique fresh and more sympathetic as 1795 Angelique (her true self I believe) was a fiesty aggressive sociopath just bursting with murderous intensions. A true monster in the making.
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The original Angelique had a set of very human motivations for her actions. Some of the dialogue in Angelique's early scenes, especially the ones with Ben who is the only character to whom she was ever really honest (paradoxical as that seems), leads me to think that Angelique only wanted Barnabas in the first place because of the attraction between him and Josette. She wanted everything Josette had--her position, her clothes, her wealth, perhaps most of all her respectability--her desire for Barnabas fit that pattern perfectly. His rejection of her drove her mad, I think, because it was above all a blow to her pride. The whole romantic thing about her putative unrequited love for him was something I always found difficult to fit into the way the character was established at the beginning.
I think they started out with a fairly clear vision for Cassandra, but the character ran afoul of the chopped-and-changed Adam subplot. My guess is that Adam's role was beefed up because of all the fanmail I've read kids sent in who totally identified with the big lug.
I love Lara Parker's performance as Cassandra because it is so nuanced. I thought she portrayed the character's inner conflicts, and even her vulnerability, really well. I am also overweeningly fond of Cassandra, I suspect, because this was how I first saw the character but when I first started watching the show.
G.
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Yes, I first saw Lara Parker as Cassandra, not Angelique, too. I supose that's why I still love the 1968 storyline despite its flaws. I remember walking into my living room asking my mom what she was watching, and I sat down on the couch next to her and saw Cassandra arguing with Nicholas. A moment to remember...
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I found it interesting how during their first encounter (Julia bandaged up Cassandra's 'sprained' ankle), Cassandra/Angelique immediately picked up on Julia's feelings for Barnabas. She later remarks to Roger, "I think she's (Julia) in love with him." Wonder if that made Julia an instant enemy in Cassandra's mind. Did Julia make her feelings that obvious in that scene? I wonder....
More catfights between Julia & Cassandra would have made for some great TV... but alas, we just got more of Adam in his trusty green sweater.... sigh.
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I found it interesting how during their first encounter (Julia bandaged up Cassandra's 'sprained' ankle), Cassandra/Angelique immediately picked up on Julia's feelings for Barnabas. She later remarks to Roger, "I think she's (Julia) in love with him." Wonder if that made Julia an instant enemy in Cassandra's mind. Did Julia make her feelings that obvious in that scene? I wonder....
More catfights between Julia & Cassandra would have made for some great TV... but alas, we just got more of Adam in his trusty green sweater.... sigh.
I think Cass/Ang asked Roger if Julia was inlove with Barnabas ..he snorted like it was a stupid question--not so clear it was stupid but absurd like Julia had better sense. . .Julia wasn't overly obvious in my mind .. .Cass/Ang asked J if she was close to Barnabas and Julia halted then said they were close in certain ways or something like that--i don't think she inferred romance or even unrequited love--only that yes they were close and perhaps they had an understanding of one another. .of course which Cass/Ang wanted to know--did Julia **know**--I don't really think Julia started to revile C/A until the dream curse? but then i don't have this all committed to greatly to memory .. .
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The dream curse time period is one of the most satisfying storylines for me. It's interesting how easily the people who had the first dreams in the beginning gave in to the need to tell the next person all about it. But then, it got harder and harder for Cassandra to get the next person on up the line to talk about it so easily. It was great to to watch her reactions. I really admired Carolyn and Vicki hanging tough for such a long time. And how about Mrs. Johnson!
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vicki's refusal to tell barnabas the dream was supposed to be indicative of the goodness and integrity intrinsic to the character.it was great to see at a time when the character was otherwise rather wishy-washy.
towards the end of the storyline there is a genius scene between vicki and cassandra!cassandra is trying to get barnabas and vicki together so that the dream curse may continue.after telling vicki a fib about barnabas looking for her vic(who is by now on to cassangelique)let's loose with quite a little tirade along the lines of "you're a liar...and you're evil and selfish and wicked...i'll die before i tell barnabas the dream!".cass is all mistress-of-the-manor "i beg your pardon?" and "how dare you?!".
great spunk from vicki and a cool scene all around. :P
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Vicki understood much more than she thought she did... she caught on to Laura, Cassandra, Nicholas... before other characters. Her *weak* spot was Barnabas, but that worked out well... you could say she saw the *good* in him. Her blind spot may have helped the audience accept the flawed, but charming, Barnabas Collins.
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The whole romantic thing about her putative unrequited love for him was something I always found difficult to fit into the way the character was established at the beginning.
I totally agree with this. I never felt the passion, or "chemistry" if you will, between Lara and Jonathan in these roles. I believe Angelique was the typical jealous servant who wanted what Josette had, simply because Josette had it and she didn't. It's like fighting over toys, or as you said, clothes etc...Women are bitchy w/each other and very competitivie, especially when it comes to men (a *wealthy* one at that), so this seems more plausible to me as well.
Getting back to "chemistry", while I, as I stated above, didn't feel the chemistry between Lara and Jon as Angelique/Barnabas, it was *definately* there when they were Bramwell and Catherine! Damn but they lit up the screen as those two, the temperature in the room goes up everytime they're on screen together!! What a change for them both! [hall2_wink]
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More catfights between Julia & Cassandra would have made for some great TV... but alas, we just got more of Adam in his trusty green sweater.... sigh.
Again, I agree wholeheartedly! A good round of catfights, ala Krystal & Alexis from Dynasty, would have been amusing and highly entertaining! Can you just see the two of them flying into the "never scene" pool or fishpond (you KNOW there was one, or both, of these on the estate *somewhere*!)? [hall2_grin]
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Vicki understood much more than she thought she did... she caught on to Laura, Cassandra, Nicholas... before other characters. Her *weak* spot was Barnabas, but that worked out well... you could say she saw the *good* in him. Her blind spot may have helped the audience accept the flawed, but charming, Barnabas Collins.
This is an excellant point, one I'd never thought of. Maybe Vickie was smarter than we all think. [hall2_wink]
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Women are bitchy w/each other and very competitivie, especially when it comes to men (a *wealthy* one at that), so this seems more plausible to me as well.
hmmmm....
HHMMMMM....
Patti
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hmmmm....
HHMMMMM....
My sentiments exactly. [lghy]
This remark strikes me as the result of watching too many soap operas. Either that, or having lived too long in a trailer park.
[hall2_rolleyes]
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This remark strikes me as the result of watching too many soap operas. Either that, or having lived too long in a trailer park.
LMAO.....LOLOLOL!!!
Thanks honey...good day [hall2_cheesy]
Patti
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Either that, or having lived too long in a trailer park.
[lghy] [laughing3] [laughing4]
(laughing so hard I can't catch my breath [stfl].......)
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Lot's of comments I could make, let's see....
First I think Angelique truly DID love Barnabas (in her own twisted, warped way). She wouldn't have been so obsessed with him over two centuries over his wealth, when there were other plenty rich guys she could have leeched off on.
I loved how Vicki stood up to Cassandra. For all the times we make fun of Vicki for not understanding, when push came to shove she could really stand up for someone she believed in (Barnabas, Elizabeth) and come through for them in the cinch (David, Daniel). Even though Vicki did unfortunately get dumbed down during the 1795 story, I still have a great deal of admiration and affection for her.
Love the bitch slap Julia gave Cassandra.......I think it was only natural they should go from friendly acquaintances to bitter enemies because they were both obsessed over Barnabas, one woman wanted to help him, the other wanted to destroy him. This was bound to cause a lot of friction betwen them.
Also Cassandra was obviously aware from the start Julia had strong feelings towards Barnabas. She was evil, but she wasn't stupid.
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I think they had one thing they agreed upon the love of Barnabas. One was selfish the other was unselfish. A wanted him because she couldn't have him, sometimes you keep going for things that resist you. J loved him for who he really was even with all his failings but she saw the person. I would have loved to see more scenes with Julia and Angelilque fighting over Barn. [cheerleader]