DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '26 I => Current Talk '05 I => Topic started by: AndreDuPres on June 24, 2005, 03:29:50 PM
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Well, I just got the new Dark Shadows DVD, which features the first chunk of the Leviathan plot, and I must say that I'm overwhelmed by the intensity and over-all creepiness to this storyline. I had seen it before (2 years or so ago), and then I thought it was kind of cheesy and boring, but now...yeah, I know it falls apart soon after [spoiler]Jeb comes along what with all those stupid additions like Peter Bradford's ghost and the death of Victoria Winters, but right now it's fresh and interesting.[/spoiler] So, what are your thoughts on this often-hated era of Dark Shadows?
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AndreDuPres, I'm so with you on this. The first time I saw the Leviathan storyline, I couldn't wait for it to be over. But the second time around, I gained so much more appreciation for it. In fact, there are parts of it that rank up there as some of my favorite DS moments, including:
[spoiler] * Barnabas Collins return to evil, at the behest of the the Leviathan elders, with Dr. Julia Hoffman back as his adversary, trying to figure out what he's up to.
* Leviathanized Liz's cold hearted treatment of Paul Stoddard
* Carolyn and Jeb's romance - these two just had real chemistry
* The return of Angelique, and her discovery that her husband's real boss is her old boss - Nicholas Blair.[/spoiler]
Although there are still aspects of this storyline that get on my nerves, I find that even now, when I watch it on my tapes, there is much to enjoy about Leviathan era Dark Shadows
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The Leviathan storyline is creepy and a lot of fun. It definitely isn't my favorite DS storyline, but I certainly enjoyed it a great deal. The Lovecraft material they employed for the story was quite eerie, and different from anything which had appeared on DS before then. There were faults in this portion of the series, but there were also some very strong points such as Frid and Parker's strong performances, and the continuation of the Chris Jennings storyline. Gothick wrote an excellent article about the Leviathan sequence awhile back. I can't find the URL at the moment but I'll try and post it this weekend if someone doesn't post it before then.
~Penny Dreadful~
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I absolutely agree, and it's refreshing to find a thread lauding the very obvious merits of this grossly pilloried and under-estimated period of DS. For the record, I also think the final month of the 1897 storyline, which has been equally dissed in the official histories of DS published by the Pomegranate Press, was fabulous written and acted--you know it's gotta be good for me to say that, because my beloved Grayson had that month off (filming Adam at Six A.M. with "Mikey" Douglas in Podunk, Kansas).
Even though the second half of Leviathans does not maintain the same degree of intensity, I still think those episodes contain some of the best scenes in the entire series.
Just because the ratings went down during late 1897 and Leviathan doesn't mean that we have to give those shows a low evaluation today, watching the series in a very different way from the original broadcast. The extraordinary quality of DS is that it does often improve with repeated viewings--the acting and writing was that good.
G.
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S P O I L E R S
I've mentioned this any number of times before, so forgive my redundancy, but the Leviathans episodes were the very first ones I got to watch regularly as a kid. Before that, I could only see the show sporadically (we didn't get cable in the house till 1969, which one needed to pick up the ABC channel that ran DS); certainly not enough to get any sense of what was really happening with the story. So as far as I was concerned at that age, the Leviathans, bad Barnabas, the walking dead, scary (unseen) monsters, and all such elements of the show were truly what DS was all about. I still have a lot of fondness for the story, especially Barnabas's renewed malevolence, which, looking at with the benefit of hindsight, was a desperately needed move. I really like Paul Stoddard's return, and even though I didn't know the backstory as a kid, even then his relationship with Carolyn hit me with some poignancy. Best of all, I was never so creeped out as by the heavy-breathing thing behind the Todd's upstairs door. They definitely made the right decision to not even attempt to show the critter.
Nowadays, the little feller that played Alexander creeps me out REAL bad. ;)
While it certainly had its shortcomings, the Leviathans story hit some distinct high points, particularly the atmosphere of dark mystery in the early episodes. It's a shame it didn't play out to fulfill its potential, but I can't help but maintain an emotional attachment to that particular era of the show.
--M
http://home.triad.rr.com/smrainey
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I enjoy the Leviathan sequence for bringing Grayson Hall to the front-burner again. Rather than pine and sigh over Barnabas and continue to play his second banana, Julia moved on to other mysteries (the return of Quentin, the discovery of Angelique, the desperation of Chris Jennings, the odd behavior of Elizabeth towards Paul Stoddard). Julia never seemed more liberated than when she and Barn were on the outs, plus she got to wear lots of snappy non-tweed Ohrbach's numbers that actually flattered her.
As a kid, I "borrowed" one of my mom's knick knacks that resembled the actual Leviathan box, and I resisted entering rooms where I'd hear heavy breathing on the other side of the door (viva my parents' sex life in 1969)! The Leviathan period did have its perks and influences.
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I always enjoyed the Leviathan story line. At first, I thought I was a "loner" in this, but now I see there are others who have this vice! (My least favorite was the Adam plot - I loathe it to this day.) When I first saw it as a junior-high-schooler, I found it creepy and eerie, always wanting to know what that monster-in-the-room looked like, since its very appearance drove people into insanity. Barnabas becoming evil again (at least temporarily) caused me great angst. And I felt such sympathy for the Todds. Having Angelique become good, and even emotionally vulnerable, really appealed to me. I so hoped that Carolyn and her father would have a forever-loving relationship, and it was headed towards that happy conclusion, but for those of you who have seen it, that was not meant to be. There was just so much, especially in character development, twists and turns, that I really had an appreciation for it.
Gerard
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I am also one of those who never thought the ouright disgust most DS fans have for the Leviathan series was deserved. I was just discovering H. P. Lovecrafts stories when DS took up this story line so I watched it religiously. I'll be the first to admit that the DS writers didn't do a very good job of connecting the dots in the story but they did introduce several story items that I enjoyed.
The first was what I consider Angeligues second best curse of all time,
[spoiler]The Shadow Curse[/spoiler]
I know many people will say Angelique's all time number one curse is the curse of the undead she placed on Barnabas, but I am going to take a chance on receiving some flaming here and say I only consider it her third best curse. I believe her all time best curse was the Dream Curse, the conclusion of which was to have the one Barnabas cared the most about re-establish the original curse of the undead upon him. Now that is devious.
Anyway back to the Leviathans. This story line also had Zombies in it. Being from Pittsburgh, I always love a good Zombie. They just "liven" up the place.
Jeff
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Anyway back to the Leviathans. This story line also had Zombies in it. Being from Pittsburgh, I always love a good Zombie. They just "liven" up the place.
When I lived in Pittsburgh, I loved going to the mall where they filmed the first sequel, Dawn of the Dead. Of course, by the time I was living there the mall had changed greatly from when they made that movie (I think the ice rink was already gone). And then when they released the remake last summer, I was tickled that they had moved the location from Pittsburgh to Milwaukee, being a Wisconsinite, so I came full circle. Of course, it wasn't filmed in Milwaukee, but in Toronto (using one of their malls), but the thought was there.
Gerard
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Here's the link to Gothick's Leviathan article:
http://www.bloodparty.com/cafe/sotnight/bluewhale/2004/08/loving-leviathans-by-s-r-shutt.htm
Gerard, just as you felt like a "loner" in liking the Leviathan storyline, I sometimes feel the same way about liking the Adam storyline, which also had great moments and episodes, despite its flaws. I'll get another thread going about that at a later date.
~Penny Dreadful~
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The Leviathan Story was a very well-crafted horror tale. It used so many ideas, ( Lovecraft, suspense, old-tyme horror/monster movies) to create an almost brand-new DS. The major problem i had when trying to watch it the first time was their where too many sub-plots and additional mysteries going on at the same time.
First their was evil Barnabas
then the Passing of the box
The birth of the creature
Then their's Quinten's return
Olivia Corey
their's Angelique's return
The Munrowe/Tate situation
it just compacted too much stuff into this period it drove me nuts.
But in retrospective, i did like most of this period and had hoped more stories like this would have occured.
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When I lived in Pittsburgh, I loved going to the mall where they filmed the first sequel, Dawn of the Dead. Of course, by the time I was living there the mall had changed greatly from when they made that movie (I think the ice rink was already gone)
Hiya Gerard. [wave] Me too (I still go there actually - lol.) My mom remembers that ice rink... :D
Anyway back to the Leviathans. This story line also had Zombies in it. Being from Pittsburgh, I always love a good Zombie. They just "liven" up the place.
LOL - Ditto...n'at. [for non-pittsburghers, N'at = And so forth; Used for emphasis.] ;)
-Heather (born and raised in da 'Burgh. Yeah, Pittsburghese was my first language... (just kidding...sorta) ::))
p.s. Nice thread! Yunz guys summed it up quite nicely. It's not the most treasured time period by everyone...to each his/her own, and whatnot, but that doesn't mean it isn't uniquely divine in its own way. ;) And Sandor (you adorable wench - chortle)...couldn't have said it better myself. JUlia and Co. shined during this time period, with Jules playing master detective and multitasker extraordinaire while the rest of the town was being threated by that *unseen terror*. Actually, I adore pretty much all of DS - you can always find some juicy tidbits in almost every storyline (in my humble opinion, of course...cough), no matter what your initial reaction to it might be. ;) :-*
{hugs}
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When I first watched this storyline, I was absolutely giddy with where it was going to go next. The return of Paul Stoddard, Charles Tate, Angelique & Nicholas Blair, the deliciousness of the once-again evil Barnabas.... however as the story went on it just got ridiculous and they had no idea how or where to end it.
There were great moments here, as all the storylines have their great moments, and their ridiculous moments. (The moon poppy comes to mind, how I loathed any scene with Sabrina). I wasn't a huge fan of Jeb either. I really love Chris Pennock, but Jeb just somehow.... I didn't give a crap if he lived or died.
And considering the amount of people who plunged off Widow's Hill you'd think they'd put up a fence or something.
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The Leviathan storyline was the first major DS story line from the original show that I got to see.
So, it holds a special place in my heart.
If the pace of the story line was a bit faster I don't think it would as much of a bad rap that it does.
And of coerce the need for a faster pace is generally an issue with any soap opera (It's hard to call DS that, though).
I think the "unseen" monster was more creepy than a guy in a monster custom could be.
Like with a book your imagination could fill in the details.
All-in-all an under rated story line. Though reasonable criticism is understandable.
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I can't say I totally agree with Gothick's Leviathan article, but it was an interesting worth while read.
". . its implicit mockery of the Christian theology . ."
Personally I don't see it that way.
From the start the Leviathan thing was evil and alien (but not from outer space).
The kid was more like an imp* than Jesus.
Jeb did the death-and-rebirth growth and necessary changing of names.
And the hidden nature of the leviathan story compared to the public nature of Jesus doesn't seem to compare.
At most it's an in-direct antonym.
* imp - the kind that replace real children with themselves and cause trouble and grif for parents.
". . the destruction of the Leviathan altar . . ""humanity" and "the inhuman"
That's a great point that the article had. [spoiler]Jeb turns his back on what he has been told was his destiny out of love for Carolyn.[/spoiler]