DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '05 I => Topic started by: michael c on May 02, 2005, 10:49:11 PM
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over the weekend i received what are,for me,a very signifigant group of episodes.original series volume 79...the final alexandra moltke vicki episodes.
i started watching the show from episode one("my name is victoria winters...my journey is beginning...").for various reasons it's taken me over three years just to get to this point in the show.so victoria winters has been a part of my life for a long time.
true,the character deteriorated greatly after 1795 but she was still around and for whatever reason i found her to be a comforting presence on the show.a quiet note in a cacophony of over-the-top characters.her placidness(often criticized)reassuring.i felt like when i was seeing vicki i was watching "dark shadows".
i know i can always go back and re-watch her episodes but i wanted to get through this whole thing once before i re-watched favorite storylines.even though barnabas became the stand-out character from the show i feel as though vicki was at it's heart and when i watch future episodes her absence will be a large void for me.i went into this knowing that she was only around for about two and a half years but i guess i got more attatched to her than i thought.
plus she was just so darn easy on the eyes.
anyways i couldn't bring myself to watch the episodes.the box is still sitting unopened.at the risk of sounding like a maj drama queen i'm really kind of sad. :'(
i know alot of you here consider vicki to be a total ditz but did anyone else experience a similar sense of "loss" when she exited the show.
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I was sad to see her exit the show. I didn't like what was done to her (dumbing her down, not giving her a decent storyline) after 1795, but I still liked Victoria as a character. I would've liked to have seen AM stick with show and be given better roles in the storylines. I think it would've been possible for them to do more with Victoria, so it's a shame the actress left the series.
It was sort of the end of a DS era when she left.
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I completely agree: I started watching Dark Shadows on the Sci-Fi channel when the Adam storyline was running bumpily along during the summer about three years ago. I grew rather attached to Vicki, too. I did like her placid serenity and how she was so calm amongst all that Dream Curse/Adam hysteria. True, she was a total ditz by that point, but when Alexandra walked up those stairs never to return again, I was very disappointed--especially when the next voiceover or so declared "Betsy Durkin will be playing the part of Victoria Winters" or some such statement. I didn't realise until that point how Vicki really was the "heart" of the show. If only Carolyn Groves had been hired before Betsy Durkin...the character may have been salvaged. I would definitely advise you to keep on watching the show, though. There are many great moments ahead despite Alexandra's departure. Just try not to abandon the show when you watch those horrendous Jeff and Vicki "romance" scenes coming up between Roger Davis and Betsy Durkin.
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thanks for the words b.b. and a.d.
i still haven't watched the episodes ::).
i was sort of disappointed that the topic of vicki's departure didn't inspire more thoughts.hmmmmmm. :-
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Alexandra Moltke is my favorite actress on the show and when I seen her last episode adn then they brought on Betsy Durkin it just wasn't the same. She laked Alexandra's innocence and certainly was not able to carry the character after Alexandra. It was unfortunate that she was not allowed to come back in the role that she would have liked to of played or for Vicki to get out of the duldrums sort of speak. But even after 1795 I still love Alexandra and Vicki both.
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i was sort of disappointed that the topic of vicki's departure didn't inspire more thoughts.hmmmmmm.
I can't speak for others, but as much as I enjoy Vicki, particularly during DS' first year, her departure coincides with the beginning of Quentin's haunting and signals that the best (IMO) and the most popular part of DS (1897) is yet to come. Yes, Alexandra Moltke's and finally Vicki's complete departure are somewhat bittersweet. But let's face it, by the time AM leaves the show, Vicki is simply a shadow (pun fully intended) of her former self, so the facts that first the actress and then the character are finally put out of her misery are actually blessings.
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Ouch! :o
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Vicki is simply a shadow (pun fully intended) of her former self, so the facts that first the actress and then the character are finally put out of her misery are actually blessings.
I think that's true but feel one of the main reasons the writers lost interest in Vickie, or in developing her, was in the changing role of Dr. Julia Hoffman whom, in my opinion, took over the role of interpreter and straight-man to the Collins family. And, of course, we all know GH was married to the head writer. Vickie could not have remained the same innocent but I could see her as helping Barnabas getting back to the past, or in helping catch Barnabas or stop him from attacking people etc. etc. there were many possibilities but Julia Hoffman got them all. I'm not sure if the Julia/Barnabas relationship helped DS any or was even neccessary.
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since the show seemed to make itself up as it went along i like to think that the deterioration of the writing for vicki was not a deliberate act("let's shaft this girl!")but an unintended slight that snowballed as time went on until it was almost too late to turn back.didn't dan curtis always want her back?
but it's true that dr.hoffman took over as "straight man" to those crazy collins'.i like julia alot and she was an integral part of the story(i prefer her before 1795 in a more adversarial role)but her prominence does become somewhat overblown(and remarkable in it's nepotism when you know the backstory).
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Barnabas would NEVER have had the same relationship with Victoria that he did with Julia. Vicky was a Sweet Young Thing that he saw in a purely romantic light. She was not his equal, and he would never have depended upon her the way he did Julia.
Julia was a grown woman to Vicky's little girl. Julia had the medical and educational background to be of tremendous help and support to Barnabas. He may have loved and desired Vicky, but he admired and needed Julia. I don't think the roles could have been reversed and still have been believable.
Having said that, I agree that the dumbing down of Vicky Winters was a pointless travesty, and I can only imagine how infuriating it must have become for Ms. Moltke to endure before she finally gave it up.
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Barnabas would NEVER have had the same relationship with Victoria that he did with Julia. Vicky was a Sweet Young Thing that he saw in a purely romantic light. She was not his equal, and he would never have depended upon her the way he did Julia.
Julia was a grown woman to Vicky's little girl. Julia had the medical and educational background to be of tremendous help and support to Barnabas. He may have loved and desired Vicky, but he admired and needed Julia. I don't think the roles could have been reversed and still have been believable.
Well said, Rainey... [thumb]
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I liked Vicki early on. DS was a solid gothic drama and she was the reasonably likeable protagonist. She was a part of storylines. Whatever uniqueness her character had was actually utilized as part of the stories (as opposed to later when her history/personality stops being a factor and she's either in bait or love interest roles). She had really nice hair.
When it comes to AM's departure, I was really just hoping for a decent send off (which I didn't exactly get- I found it tough to root for Vicki + Peter as a couple). I mean, her character was really insufferable. She didn't want to be there and *really* didn't want to do scenes with Roger Davis. The only reasons I was sad to see her go were a) all the built up good-will and empathy I had for VIcki and b) AM was smokin' hot for most of 1968 (sorry).
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Barnabas would NEVER have had the same relationship with Victoria that he did with Julia. Vicky was a Sweet Young Thing that he saw in a purely romantic light. She was not his equal, and he would never have depended upon her the way he did Julia.
Was never a fan of either the Julia/Barnabas or the Vickie/Barnabas romantic pairings (as they were - sort of a tease here and there). My statement has nothing to do about romance. I consider Josette to be Barnabas' true mate. I honestly don't see why Vickie could not have developed into a mature, thoughtful, sensitive and interesting character fully capable of being Barnabas' equal or anyone else equal on the show. It's ridiculous to presume Vickie was to remain a "sweet young thing". I liked Julia as the tough-minded doctor observing and helping despite her own ambitions and desire for fame. I could even imagine Vickie and Julia as a team dealing with the "Barnabas issue". It seems though, that the character of Julia took everything.
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I don't think the Julia/Barnabas/Vicki team seems viable. Threes a crowd. How would Vicki/Julia handle the sweet young thing of the month? If Julia and Vicki had romances on the side while helping Barnabas and his sweet young thing of the month, it would be awfully crowded and maybe a little kinky. :o
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I don't think the Julia/Barnabas/Vicki team seems viable. Threes a crowd. How would Vicki/Julia handle the sweet young thing of the month?
OK, I get that Julia might have a crush on Barnabas but really don't see Vickie as having any romantic interest in Barnabas at all (nor do I believe she ever did have). I see the Julia/Vickie team and the "Barnabas issue" as strictly business, science and just plain helping out a wierd and fascinating situation. I mean, how many 175 yr old vampires does one come across usually? Why couldn't Vickie have a purely intellectual interest in Barnabas and his situation? One of Vickie's best qualities was concern for people and her desire to help and she loved the past.
Oh, and I see both Julia and Vickie having romance on the side (other storylines) independant of Barnabas.
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miles,
i like your choice B.she was smokin' hot!alexandra moltke's not really my "type" ;) but she was one seriously foxy governess.towards the end of her days on the show she wears her hair down alot and she's extra sweet.
anyways i try not to overthink or overanalyze the character too much.i just like to see her. [love10]
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I am going to have to agree that by the time Alexandra left the series, the character of Vickie no longer truly fit into the direction of the show. It is however hard to think of the early stories without her. Alexandra brought a great deal of warmth and a genuine sincerity to Vickie's innocence that worked perfectly. She was indeed as someone said earlier, "the straight man" for all the eccentricities of Collinwood. In a way, its a little sad that Vickie will not be exactly that same character if or when we have a revival. I think we can tell Vickie 2003 would have been quite different. Alexandra even when she had scripts that made her painfully naive still rose above them and made us care for her. On the other hand, I am glad she may have been spared the indignity of a "Rosemary's Baby" story to exploit her own pregnancy. I think the odd "Dunwich horror" children worked better in the Leviathans, most especially with Michael Maitland. Before I digress, however, Vickie did get a major disservice by [spoiler]having the totally THROWAWAY line about her having been killed by Jeb Hawkes in his earlier incarnation! This was a terrble contrivance just to allow a ghost of a past DS character tie in! And not just because it was Peter Bradford either. Its just disrespectful of the legacy of Vickie's character as well as wiping away the one great post Alexandra moment for Vickie when Carolyn Groves does more with that one glance back at Barnabas than the poor Betsy Durkin was ever able to do with the poor use of Vickie in her short era. That was a more proper was of exiting Vickie. I guess this kind of poor plotting almost proves that Dan thought no one would be rewatching things 40 years later.[/spoiler]
Vickie never did seem to grow as a person, even such as say Roger did. I can understand Alexandra being frustrated near the end of her run. It did make for an awkward arc when Maggie comes in as governess. Lastly, I wonder what Alexandra or even KLS might have done as Samatha Collins, one of the juiciest female parts on the last year of DS. I don't mean this in any way as a slight on Virginia Vestoff. Shadows is very lucky to have been able to have her for the role. I just wonder what Alexandra or KLS might have been able to do with a stronger, better developed character like her.
And if anyone sees Alexandra, tell her how much we would all LOVE to have her at the 40th anniverary festival!
Michael
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i loved vicki when she was first on and as a teenage girl wanted to be her
i just thnk they ran out of ideas for her and when she left to have her child
there was no place left for Vicki so they didn't bother to really recast her but
to me she really was a part of DS that i'll never forget.
jennifer
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thanks for the thoughts guys.you brought up alot of interesting points.
when i first posted this topic i wasn't thinking about it objectively.i was coming from an emotional point of view.
because of the huge volume of episodes we've all spent a staggering number of hours with these people and vicki's the one i grew the most attatched to.
since i'm watching this for the first time it's like she's leaving now and not thirty odd years ago.
with all that's been said i still can't think of the character as being complete toast.if a young governess was no longer a viable character then why would they bother to bring maggie in to replace vicki?they could just have eliminated that role and had maggie do something else.
and alexandra at the fortieth anniversary fest would be divine!
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Sorry about the late post to this topic, but I did want to get my two cents worth in.
I was watching the original run of DS during High School. Towards the end of the Adam story line I had extra ciricular activies that kept me from watching the show for a few weeks. When I came back to the show during the start of the 1897 storyline I couldn't figure out what happened to VW as she was never mentioned at all until the Leviathin story. It wasn't until twenty some years later when I was buying the MPI tapes that the full story of VW's returning to 1795 was revealed to me.
This in my opinion is the point that DS transitioned from one type of show to another. Most people identify the introduction of Barnabus as a turning point but I disagree. The introduction of Barnabus was significant, that can't be denied, but the show at this point still revolved around VW and her adventures.
The first half of the series was definitely done in a different format when VW was the center of the story. It was Gothic, slower paced, and much more character driven. Because many of the early episodes were done in black and white it also had a film noir kind of feel to it.
With Barnabus at the center the stories were faster and more about horror than people. More of a Hammeresque feel to it with great costumes and such. This doesn't make one better then the other as I love the whole series equally. It is different and I very much like rewatching the early episodes.
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Reading everyone's opinions on this topic is interesting....
I thought stefan brought up some interesting points regarding Victoria and the Julia and Barnabas angle, some of which I'm inclined to agree with.
Whenever I go back and watch the pre-1795 DVD sets, I always think to myself that teaming up Barnabas and Victoria (not necessarily romantic) was a missed opportunity and should've been seriously considered. They really were the two main characters of the show, to the point of defining it, really. Victoria gave DS its gothic mystery beginnings and Barnabas brought in the gothic horror aspect. It didn't have to be "one or the other". I feel the two should've been combined and that there was plenty still left for Victoria Winters as a character. They should've allowed her to continue to develop and involved her in the Barnabas angle, and not just as the clueless innocent. With good writing, it would've been possible, IMO.
Of course that doesn't have to mean no Julia. I think there was plenty of room for both of the characters, in different capacities.
Just my .02 (possibly .03 ) cents. ;)
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What??? Victoria Winters leaves the show? Thanks a lot guys .... [ghost_wink]
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For all the teasing I and others do about Vicki not understanding much after her return from 1795, I still feel a great deal of affection for her character. The show didn't exactly go down in flames once she left (in fact, thanks to Quentin and 1897 I understand the show had its highest ratings ever around this time) but I still a feel a bit of sadness whenever I watch Alexandra's last episode. She had a warm presence about her and she was able to corporate that into the character of Vicki, even when the writers dumbed down the character.