DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '26 I => Current Talk '05 I => Topic started by: FireRose on April 29, 2005, 06:19:34 AM
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I was looking at the final episode and I don't know about anyone else, but to me that episode looked like a cliff hanger that never finished.
Yes Catherine and Bramwell survived the room and Melanie was cured, but when Melanie was bitten by what Ben said looked like a vampire. Did everyone notice how the camera panned to the portrait of Barnabas. Yes... I heard the voice over of Ben saying it was an animal attack, but while he was saying that the camera pans to the window like something more is suppose to happen. As if there is something more sinister to come.
The way that scene felt to me was that what Ben was saying, about it being an animal attack, didn't quite go with the atmosphere in the room. Like it was thrown in because that was going to be the end of the show and they had to resolve it somehow. It was, more or less, as if it ended in the middle of the script and there was another twist to come. We just didn't get to see it.
The fact it ended in the past and not the present was just strange. Maybe that was what makes the way it ended seem like there was something else suppose to happen. It just didn't feel resolved.
FireRose
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The fact it ended in the past and not the present was just strange. Maybe that was what makes the way it ended seem like there was something else suppose to happen. It just didn't feel resolved.
I agree. Not only was it strange that they ended in the past, but they ended in a parallel time past. That never seemed right. Yes, there was definitely an ominous atmosphere to that scene, and in a way I almost wish Thayer's voiceover didn't say it was just an animal attack. IMO, it would have been more appropriate if he had said something like- they found a rabid animal in the woods that night, but that did not account for Melanie's enormous loss of blood - or something to make it more vague. They could have let the viewer decide.
In a strange sense, all the dangling plot threads in the show have helped maintain fandom to some degree IMO. They provide endless fodder for fan speculation on things like Vickie's parentage, what happened to the present day characters, etc.. There were many unanswered questions in the series, which kind of left people hungry for more. While I do wish they answered some of these things in the show, it is fun to speculate about them.
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I have an interview with Grayson Hall in which she says that in the original script for the final episode, Bramwell was given the lines about "if I didn't know better... I'd say there was a vampire at Collinwood."
The scene was changed to what was aired at the personal request of Jonathan Frid during the taping on that day, according to Grayson.
I think that final scene was rather neat, myself. I was watching back in April of 1971 so I haven't really interrogated it that way a fresh viewer would. Back then, it seemed cool that, even though the show was going off the air, they were leaving the door open for at least the possibility of futher "mysteries."
G.
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I have a copy of that final show's script, and Thayer David's character is not even in the script. It appears that the Stokes character was added after the script was written, perhaps in part because of Frid's objection to the line, but also perhaps because Mr. David had been so integral to the series (and would soon be shooting NODS in place of Jerry Lacy). The final VO also seems to add closure for those of us who couldn't believe in 1971 that our beloved DS was going off the air and would never been seen again. LOL!! Who knew?
The final scene, after Harris enters, is written as follows:
HARRIS' VOICE: Mrs. Collins!
FLORA: What is it, Harris?
(Harris appears in the doorway. He is half supporting Melanie, who has been attacked in the woods.)
HARRIS: I found her in the woods.
KENDRICK: Melanie! What's happened? My God . . .
JULIA: Get her to the sofa . . .
(They do . . .she is crying softly.)
HARRIS: She must have been attacked by something -- some animal.
FLORA: Get the doctor.
(He nods and leaves.)
KENDRICK: Melanie. . .Melanie. . .are you all right. . .?
JULIA: Look!
(She points to Melanie's neck.)
FLORA: What. . .what. . .
(Bramwell looks down. The camera zooms to what he sees. There are two holes in Melanie's neck.)
KENDRICK: What could have caused them? Melanie, talk to us. . .tell us.
(But she cannot. She shakes her head.)
FLORA: What could it have been?
JULIA: What kind of animal makes a mark like that?
BRAMWELL: If I didn't know bettter [sic] . . .
(He stops)
KENDRICK: Yes, Bramwell?
BRAMWELL: If I didn't know is was impossible, I would say. . .there is a vampire at Collinwood.
(And we pan their shocked faces as we:)
FADE OUT.
ONE COMMERCIAL.
Of course, the fact that it ended in a parallel time and in the past should have given us a clue--after all, in hindsight, once Barnabasa, Julia and Stokes went up those stairs to 1971, and then the show's reality took us back to 1841PT--well, how could the show have continued with our present time characters?
Ah, well, thank goodness for Dan Curtis, video tape, VHS and DVD!! DS, like Barnabas, will never truly "die."
Brian
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This is why I loved CDT's continuation fanfic of the series. It wrapped up so many loose ends. :)
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This is why I loved CDT's continuation fanfic of the series. It wrapped up so many loose ends. :)
Me too.
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This is why I loved CDT's continuation fanfic of the series. It wrapped up so many loose ends.
Me too.
Me three! (except for the very end of it)
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CDT?
I was watching back then, and it was funny to me how incredibly slapped-together at the last minute and contrived that ending seemed to be. Well, we meant to do the tired old vampire device again, but wait, thank God we don't have to, the series is ending! Whoops, it was just an animal bite!
That was a terrible line from Bramwell. Thanks very much for telling us about it, but the writing itself would have been reason enough for cutting it.
When I got my DS tapes in 2002 or so, I was actually very surprised to find that events had been tied up much more neatly than I'd remembered. I remembered the series as being much more abruptly cut off mid-stream, than it was. The main storyline had actually been resolved happily, and left that way. Parallel 1841 had even been resolved, or the first storyline of it, anyway. The end took place at the end of a storyline, and it had all seemed more sudden and unplanned, in my memory.
I have heard that the cancellation was abrupt... the ratings apparently plunged quickly when the character of Barnabas was gone, and then the real ratings nosedive a bit later led to cancellation almost the same week, something like this.
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CDT?
Charles Delaware Troll. He wrote an excellent episode by episode summary for a year of DS which never existed. It is fanfic, but is so well-constructed & generally true to the series, that it's absolutely worth reading - though it'll take a long while to get through everything! These "episodes" make an effort to tie up several loose ends and answer some of the unanswered questions in the series. CDT also brings back various characters throughout the various storylines, and introduces new characters "played" by later series regulars like James Storm and Virginia Vestoff. At one point, you even get a unique look at what might have happened if Dan Curtis had followed through with his original plans for Barnabas. There are lots of neat ideas in all these storylines.
Here's a link: http://members.aol.com/chasdtroll/mainp.html
Have fun!
~Penny Dreadful~
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I have heard that the cancellation was abrupt... the ratings apparently plunged quickly when the character of Barnabas was gone, and then the real ratings nosedive a bit later led to cancellation almost the same week, something like this.
Sorry, hate to be contrary, but it didn't happen like that at all. The 1841 PT story runs for over nine weeks of shows, so it wasn't something decided within a matter of days. Reading between the lines, I think the cancellation was more about economics than DS' performance. When I interviewed David Selby last summer, he pointed out that by the end of its run, ABC could afford a bunch of game shows for the outlay DS demanded. It's interesting to note that within a couple of years, a lot of the DS crew are back at the same studio making another ABC daytime soap, "Ryan's Hope". Also, the ratings for the 1841PT story were actually markedly up on those in the months before, so make of all that what you will.
As for the final episode, apparently Jonathan Frid felt that the line about the vampire sent up Barnabas, and didn't want to do it. The rehearsal script doesnt have the closing monologue from Thayer David, nor does it have Ben Stokes in it. So it seems they brought in Thayer at the last minute just to plug that final scene.
And I think that's pretty damned nifty - Thayer was the best actor on DS by a mile, for my money. If anyone deserved to take the final bow for the show, he was the one.
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As for the final episode, apparently Thayer was the best actor on DS by a mile, for my money. If anyone deserved to take the final bow for the show, he was the one.
I agree. When you think about it, most of his characters where observent outsiders to the Collins clan's history. It was more than appropriate for one of his characters to "close the book" on them.
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I find everyone's comments very interesting and very informative... Which brings up this...
I just don't get the vampire comment, when to me, it seemed they were hinting that Barnabas Collins was back at Collinwood as a vampire. Especially since Jonathan Frid had already made it clear he no longer was interested in doing the vampire thing.
So why did they put it in there when they knew that Jonathan Frid wouldn't go for it? Especially as was pointed out that according to a interview that Grayson Hall gave. Jonathan wanted it changed.
Although my mother's theory is this: "They did it to jerk Jonathan Frid's chain, because he no longer wanted to play Barnabas the vampire and that was there way of having some fun off of him."
Of course if that was really the reason... That was just plain mean.
FireRose
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just don't get the vampire comment, when to me, it seemed they were hinting that Barnabas Collins was back at Collinwood as a vampire... So why did they put it in there when they knew that Jonathan Frid wouldn't go for it? Especially as was pointed out that according to a interview that Grayson Hall gave. Jonathan wanted it changed.
I think you're reading *way* too much into this. It's a wry little wink at the audience - one of the "dumb" characters *finally* managing to put two-and-two together and realise what might have been going on at Collinwood. It's not meant to be a the beginning of a new story or have any repercussions beyond the closing credits. It's the DS equivalent of an end-of-term class prank - something done for no other reason than the spirit of fun. And that's exactly how it should be enjoyed.
I think the DS finale kinda sums up the show's rep theatre vibe perfectly - no great show-stopper or twists to be had, but instead a smile to the audience saying "Hey, that was fun, wasn't it?"
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Whether Jonathan Frid wanted to do Barnabas again or not, it wouldn't matter, as it was the final episode and everyone knew that. I thought it was rather clever. Everything had been wrapped up neatly, supposedly all was over, and then there's that last bit of excitment and one thinks they are going to end it with a cliffhanger. Instead, there's the narration afterwards to let us know that this time, for once, it really was an animal bite, and then all ends nicely.
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I think the DS finale kinda sums up the show's rep theatre vibe perfectly - no great show-stopper or twists to be had, but instead a smile to the audience saying "Hey, that was fun, wasn't it?"
I would agree with that if Dan Curtis had been the one pulling the plug on the show himself, but Dark Shadows was canceled by the network. So I know that when a show is canceled by the network. They cancel them in the middle of stories. The parallel time storyline was not originally written as the way to end the show. That just happened to be the storyline they were involved in when it got the ax.
Now I have read that everyone wonders why since Dan Curtis knew, months in advance, that the show was definately going to be canceled. Why he chose to end in parellel time. Perhaps he didn't. I mean in reality the network saw Dark Shadows as a waste of money and wanted it off the air. For me it is much more in the realm of reality that the network would not allow him to do another storyline. He was more than likely told. Wrap it up with the storyline you've got planned out already.
When a show is being canceled. The network could care less how it is resolved. They want it gone as quickly as possible.
I understand that most of you believe that the final episode script was written as the end of the show. But since I know what it is like when a show is canceled. I think the script that was used was more likely only written as the end of the parellel time storyline. They had to take that script and make it work as the end of the series.
Of course it all depends on how far in advance the storylines were planned out and just how much of the scripts were written in advance to the storyline being played out on screen.
Most shows these days plan their storylines out months ahead of time and the scripts are already wrote. I can't believe that Dark Shadows didn't do something similar back then. So it goes to say that what we saw as the end of the show, with the network pulling the plug, and what the end of the show would have really been had Dan Curtis himself been the one who pulled the plug on the show is something that remains never to be seen.
I guess basically having watched so many shows get canceled over the years without realistic resolution. I'm skeptical that the final episode of Dark Shadows was what Dan Curtis would really have planned out as the end had he been the one who was choosing to end the show himself.
He was forced to end the show by the network... He didn't choose to end the show himself and based on that fact. To me the final episode comes across as a forced ending that didn't quite fit. Maybe it is just me who is seeing that and I am reading more into it than I should.
But you do have to wonder if it would have had a different ending had Dan Curtis himself had been the one to decide it was time for the show to end instead of the network making that decision for him?
FireRose
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Bit more history here... They went to Parallel Time after 1840 because Frid's contract was coming up for a renewal towards the end of 1970. Somebody on here mentioned that he walked off the set one day and refused to return until he was assured that he would get to play another character besides Barnabas. Lara Parker had also long expressed a desire to play a "good" character. The only way they could think of meeting Frid's demand was by constructing the 1841 storyline, with its obvious roots in Wuthering Heights. Also, Director (and at this time, Producer) Lela Swift believed that the largest contingent of the audience wanted to see Frid and Parker's characters in a happy romantic story, which is why 1840 took the turn of a framework for [spoiler]Barnabas realizing he had "always really loved" Angelique for the final weeks of that story.[/spoiler] I believe that these ingredients led to the creation of the PT1841 storyline.
I believe that local network affiliates dropping DS are as much an explanation for the decline in the ratings as anything else. However, I have read that the ratings began to rise again in January-Feb. 1971. Apparently, when the announcement was made at the March '71 ABC board meeting that DS was going to get the axe, there was genuine concern that such a popular show was being dumped.
My theory for several years now has been that if it was the network's idea to cancel DS, Dan Curtis was more than happy to meet them halfway. I still think that the timing of the cancellation had more to do with the need to go into production for NoDS than it did any other factor. Since JF reportedly refused to "do the fanging thing" any longer, and also refused to do the sequel film (which had been originally constructed around him), DC probably felt it was more than time to move on. Sam Hall's notes for the final storyline, published in that TV Guide article, were all about Barnabas' final cure from vampirism; they couldn't really have played that story if the actor did not want to portray a vampire any longer.
G.
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I think that no matter WHAT was intended by anyone involved, if they had "cured" Barnabas, the show would have ended anyway. The character would no longer have been the "tragic" hero everyone (Well, almost everyone... ::) ) found so romantic.
My take on it has always been that Dan Curtis never intended to make a life's work out of that show and was not sorry to leave it behind, when the convenient moment arrived.
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My take on it has always been that Dan Curtis never intended to make a life's work out of that show and was not sorry to leave it behind, when the convenient moment arrived.
Perhaps that is true, but Dan Curtis sure does keep trying to bring Dark Shadows back to life.
Now the million dollar question is will he ever succeed in doing it?
FireRose
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perhaps dan curtis now realizes who butters his bread...i don't imagine there is a large and lucrative fanbase for "supertrain". :P
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That was some interseting information Gothick. Thanks for posting that. I didn't know about JF walking off the set. He must have been really frustrated over having to play the Barnabas role at that point.
I think that no matter WHAT was intended by anyone involved, if they had "cured" Barnabas, the show would have ended anyway.
You have a point...
[spoiler] Since Barnabas was technically "cured" by the end of 1840, it seems you are right! I assume if they had gone back to 1971, the curse would have come back to Barnabas somehow. Actually, in the present, he was suffering from the curse Jeb Hawkes inflicted. Shouldn't he still be under THAT curse, regardless of whether Angelique took her own curse off him in 1840? When he comes up the stairs in 1971, he's cured. I imagine he would have soon reverted back to vampirism shortly after returning to the present because of Jeb's curse.[/spoiler]
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You have a point...
[spoiler] Since Barnabas was technically "cured" by the end of 1840, it seems you are right! I assume if they had gone back to 1971, the curse would have come back to Barnabas somehow. Actually, in the present, he was suffering from the curse Jeb Hawkes inflicted. Shouldn't he still be under THAT curse, regardless of whether Angelique took her own curse off him in 1840? When he comes up the stairs in 1971, he's cured. I imagine he would have soon reverted back to vampirism shortly after returning to the present because of Jeb's curse.[/spoiler]
Depends whether a curse is lifted on a soul or a body, and if soul, which version of a soul when there are two in the one body, from two different time periods. I saw it as-- [spoiler]Barnabas was uncursed in 1840, and 1840 comes before 1970, so no vampirism for BC after 1840. This means a drastic restructuring of events after 1840, even including BC not being freed by Willie in 1967, since he wasn't a vampire any longer, then. The events with Jeb and Barnabas are undone. In fact, events are totally different from 1840 on, to the point where E Stoddard should never have recognized Barnabas when he "returned" to 1971. The death of Angelique in 1840 alone screws up the timeline so badly that they didn't dare pursue the 1971 story any further.[/spoiler] They slapped together an unexplained and unexplainable "happy ending" in 1971 that could not possibly have happened, and hoped viewers would ask no questions.
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Yes, I've been trying to figure out how everything would change after the 1840carnage--so many deaths that should not have occurred! Everything in 1897 and thus 1971 would have been utterly changed and different. It gives me quite a head-ache thinking about it.
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What I'm about to say doesn't reconcile any of that, but as for how BC and Julia continue to live and interact with the Collins family after that in 1971, despite their memories being completely different and at odds with what the family remembers about the past few years, I thought this might be an interesting device: BC and Julia have two complete sets of different, overlapping memories. At the same time, they can remember the way we saw events unfold over the last few years, while simultaneously remembering the very different series of events that Elizabeth and the others have now lived through instead (because of the changing of history), which presumably BC and Julia also lived through. Never mind though that they would never have made it to 20th century Collinwood in the first place.