DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '05 I => Topic started by: FireRose on April 13, 2005, 09:24:11 AM
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I know that I Dream of Jeanie got busted for showing Jeanie's belly button, but did any of the Dark Shadow storylines ever fall victim to the censor police?
FireRose
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From what I've heard (or read), the censors did not allow Barnabas to bite Willie on the neck; hence, the chomp on the wrist. They probably thought it would've seemed, well, you know. Later, Barnabas was allowed to go for the jugular when having to deal with the male species. Also (not sure how true this is), the censors did not allow the use of the word "vampire" for months and months into the initial Barnabas story line. I think it was first uttered by Angelique to Ben Stokes in the 1795 plot. Regardless as to whether or not that was true, I think it actually benefited the story, the performers (Julia in particular) having to utter "what you are" and such.
Gerard
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I agree that not saying the word "vampire" for so long was effective, and added to the impact when Angelique finally said the word (and later when Barnabas himself said it to Joshua).
This isn't really a censorship example, but it does involve a backlash against DS' content. Certain religious fundamentalist groups were really POed about some of the stuff in the series. Particularly 'offensive', was the Nicholas Blair scene where he speaks with Satan in hell. As I mentioned in another post, there was an anti-DS flyer going around entitled "The Devil's Favorite TV Show." The flyer illustration depicted a cartoon devil gleefully watching a televison with the words "Dark Shadows" on the screeen! LOL! I heard there was a similar flyer for "Bewitched."
If anyone has a copy of the anti-DS flyer, I'd love to see it again. I remember seeing it reprinted in some DS fan publication several years ago (maybe Josette Kernaghan's books?).
I also read the show was banned/taken off the air in parts of Canada due to parents complaining about the show being on daytime tv. Those killjoys! [chkyy]
~Penny Dreadful~
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Hey All!
I just received the latest Time Magazine issue and on page 13, the Letters section discusses about TV being too outrageous and some censorship issues. And I think that DS was somewhat censored for content and other aspects. But DS seems quite tame compared to what the networks show in this day and age, even ABC. Even I being a young adult is offended by today's programming. I am glad that DS doesn't offend me, it mirrors my young life in so many ways.
Thanks fo letting me put my two cents in,
dvlvan26, who ponders that DS was the first show to have trouble with the censor police LOL
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Also (not sure how true this is), the censors did not allow the use of the word "vampire" for months and months into the initial Barnabas story line.
Hmm...I can't imagine why the word "vampire" would be censored. I figured it was a device used by the writers as sort of a build-up thing. I don't remember censorship issues surrounding the show, or remember reading any controversy.
Amazing what was deemed acceptable back then and what is now. I walk by the TV and can't believe what I'm hearing. And my kids are watching this stuff. :- What a wasteland of sick, taudry garbage!
I'm like, "What in HELL are you watching!"
"Oh - it's really funny - blah blah..."
"Shut it off!"
"But it's only rated PG 14!"
Unbelievable. [puke]
[spoiler]Back during 1841 PT when Catherine found herself pregnant, was there any broo-ha-ha (sp?) over that?[/spoiler]
I wasn't watching at that point.
-CLC
Not a prude by any stretch
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Just a couple of historical comments on this thread...
I believe the decision not to SAY "vampire" on the air was a conscious strategy on the part of DC and the writers to try to make the first Barnabas storyline more realistic. You'll also note that before 1795, they never confronted Barnabas with a cross. I think that was deliberate--to try to create a new space for a new kind of Undead that would owe less to the existing portrayals and more to the imagination of the viewers. Of course they did use quite a lot of traditional "Gothic" iconography in the physical portrayal of Barnabas... so there was a give and take between the traditions and something that was new.
ABC had an office called Standards and Practices that was internal to the network and I believe all the scripts had to be stamped by that office. In a book that came out several years ago about the first Barnabas storyline, the editor reprinted a memo from the S & P office which was, I believe, addressed to the producers and directors and had to do with scenes involving Willie, Jason and Barnabas. They were concerned that Jason not be insinuating that he thought Willie and Barn were a gay couple in a scene with Willie in which he had some smirking dialogue about his former playmate's "light housekeeping" duties in the Old House.
I think the business about a male vampire not biting another man in the throat, etc. also came from S & P or from a presumption about how they would react--so, if this was censorship, it was more or less self-censorship.
The Bible-thumping crowd did conduct campaigns against DS but I think it was all too small scale for the network to bother over. I never heard about it at the time. I have to say I get a giggle out of the idea of DS as "the devil's favorite TV show."
G.
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I've never heard that ABC had a policy regarding the word "vampire", but maybe the Comics Code Authority (http://www.comics.dm.net/codetext.htm), which didn't allow it and caused horror comics to all but disappear, influenced Curtis' decision?
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ABC had an office called Standards and Practices that was internal to the network and I believe all the scripts had to be stamped by that office.
All three networks still have Standards and Practices offices as do some of the major cable networks. There are still things that cannot be said, done, or shown on TV. Sometimes there are also legal liability issues as well.
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Of course there was the episode that had to be completely retaped start to finish because Quentin's *tight* trousers split wide open and the ultimate Secret of Collinwood popped out to be revealed in full ecstatic view of the cameras...
G. *anybody else notice that it's FRIDAY???*
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Quentin's *tight* trousers split wide open and the ultimate Secret of Collinwood popped out to be revealed in full ecstatic view of the cameras...
I don't have this outtake. (Was Grayson in the vicinity?)
;D
I love the way you write.....degenerate elegance.
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All three networks still have Standards and Practices offices as do some of the major cable networks. There are still things that cannot be said, done, or shown on TV. Sometimes there are also legal liability issues as well.
"Standards and practices are a vital link in keeping good and funny ideas away from you, the television viewer."
or better yet:
"Hey, check it out... if you pause the DVD just right, you can almost see the bottom of Moltke's knees."
"Whoa. Hot."
Honestly though, I can't imagine censorship constraints would've made a big difference in DS . Granted, you never know, (Barbara Eden's bellybutton... Unacceptable!) but they managed to get Satan, a number of violent deaths, and KLS's minis on there. Throw in that a big chunk of the target audience was kids and I just start wondering what they really would've done differently given the chance. "Modern Sensibilites" would've freed the writers up to possibly explore new themes and stories, but look at the revival. We saw relatively few new elements that would've been "off-limits" in the 60s (mostly weird sexual energy and some gore) and they weren't enjoyed by a number of fans.
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Speaking of Jeannie and her invisible navel, it was also on the books that Dawn Wells on Gilligan's Island was suppose to keep her belly-button covered according to CBS's SAP. Ironically, sweet, innocent, pure Kansas farm girl Mary Ann Summers wore far skimpier outfits than did sultry, sex-goddess movie star Ginger Grant. But didn't we see Mary Ann's belly-button on the show, and quite frequently? Yes, we did. So how did they get around that? Well, whenever Dawn Wells would wear those teeny shorts, they would constantly slip down exposing her navel and shooting would have to stop, the shorts hiked up, and the scene reshot. After that kept happening, they said to-heck-with-it and just filmed. At other times, they didn't notice it until the episode was edited and ready for airing. By that time it was too late, so they took their chances. Looks like they managed to get away with it.
Gerard
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Did the censors ever complain about the violence towards women on the show? Angelique got slapped by Nicholas and in the 1795 storyline Trask slapped Victoria. I'm not sure but I think Trask in the 1897 storyline slapped Judith and Rachel. I didn't think shows back then allowed things like that.
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Hey Satan, don't forget Julia. Not only was she constantly getting strangled, grabbed and roughhoused by Barn in 1967 (hmmm she must have *liked* it rough), she got her own back in the 1968 storyline in which she slapped Mrs Johnson, Cassandra and Joe. In 1970 she had to slap Sabrina out of a hysterical episode.
Welcome to our board, and hope you continue to enjoy watching Dark Shadows (assuming you do enjoy watching it).
Gothick
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Hey Satan, don't forget Julia. Not only was she constantly getting strangled, grabbed and roughhoused by Barn in 1967 (hmmm she must have *liked* it rough), she got her own back in the 1968 storyline in which she slapped Mrs Johnson, Cassandra and Joe. In 1970 she had to slap Sabrina out of a hysterical episode.
Welcome to our board, and hope you continue to enjoy watching Dark Shadows (assuming you do enjoy watching it).
I knew there was more women getting slapped by men on the show. I can't believe they allowed that and not the use of the word 'vampire'. I love that moment when Julia slaps Cassandra.
I love Dark Shadows. I have all 17 collection DVD sets, still waiting for the next one to release. If it weren't for Sci-Fi, I would have never gotten to seen this show. Thank you :)
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I knew there was more women getting slapped by men on the show. I can't believe they allowed that and not the use of the word 'vampire'.
Considering the abundance of it on all the soaps at the time, it's hard to imagine that any of the networks' censors had any problems whatsoever with violence towards women.
[spoiler]One of the worst examples of physical violence on DS has to be the scene between John Yaeger and Buffie Harrington in 1970PT episode #1002. It's somewhat left up to interpretation as to whether he raped her or not (though the fact that Yaeger is seen buttoning his shirt could be a strong indiction that he did), but we definitely know that he beat her. But as bad as that one is, the worst example of violence, IMO, is probably in episode #997 when Yaeger tells Buffie, "You're like a dog - you have to be hit to learn." I think that's one of the most degrading things any DS character ever said to another character, man or woman - and a perfect example of how verbal violence can actually be much worse than physical violence. (Though I do have to say that his remark is amazingly effective in the scene because the whole point is to show what a misogynist pig Yaeger is.)[/spoiler]
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Since Yaeger is supposed to embody the pure - literally undistilled - essence of evil, those horrible remarks are certainly in keeping with his character. [spoiler]I do think he raped Buffie.[/spoiler] It's amazing and disturbing that they got away with even that implication on daytime television, but again, it's in Yaeger's nature to do something so utterly loathsome and depraved.
In Stevenson's tale, Yaeger's predecessor Mr. Edward Hyde, tramples a small child for the sheer sake of it, and brutally beats an elderly man to death with his cane. In some of the Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde movies (and more subtly in the book IIRC), it's also implied that he commits rape, amongst other horrific acts. The DS writers really nailed the "Hyde" thing with that character. There's nothing redeeming about John Yaeger ... and some would say the same about that whole storyline! ;) Although, of course, I'd disagree.
~Penny Dreadful~
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I remember reading somewhere that DS was picked up by TV stations across the country in several different places during the series run. There was a TV station in NY I believe that started airing the series the day teacher Dorcas Trilling was mauled to death by the werewolf in the 1897 storyline. I think I read the show was dropped as tons of irate parents called in about the show scaring their children.
I just skimmed through the almanac and the 25th anniversary companion but couldn't find the story, but I DO remember reading it. Will check the other books for the actual recount.
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You know after reading a couple of the post on violence toward women. This thought came to mind.
Back then the law didn't really consider a woman being beat up, especially a wife by the husband, that serious a crime. Plus alot of the views on rape were in the same mentality. I know there was a rape trial that my English Teacher was a juror on and she said that the defense attorney was allowed to ask the victim, who was 15 at the time if she enjoyed it. The fact that the piece of trash used a gun and nearly beat the girl to death didn't prevent the defense attorney from asking that offensive question. So with that mentality I would assume that that is how alot of the violence toward women got on all the daytime shows back then.
I can assure you most people would have been more offended if Barnabas had been allowed to bite Willie on the neck, instead of the wrist, more so than any of the violent acts Barnabas ever commited toward Dr. Hoffman when he was trying to kill her.
Because of the bite of a vampire being akin to a sexual act. Couldn't have that happening between two male character's on tv in the 60s. But beating up a woman wasn't that big of a deal.
FireRose
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I think the thread on violence against women on the show is highlighting just one of the *many* real life, nitty-gritty reasons for the gestation of the feminist movement in the US at that time (the 1960s). The next time you hear somebody in the mass media bashing feminism (it seems to be quite the regular thing these days), you might stop and think about this. And a lot of this sort of thing still goes on today.
Arashi, I thought that the episode you are thinking of wasn't the Dorcas Trilling killing, but that of Mr Wells, which featured one of DS' most Grand Guignol shots as the climax. It is true that a lot of ABC affiliates began to drop the show from the fall of 1970 down to the end. I remember during the very final weeks of the show, ch. 7 in Washington D. C. (I think) was airing it in the evenings. I could pick up that broadcast and I was in heaven because I got to see some of the last episodes twice!
G.
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What really surprises me is the whole "Barnabas can't bite a man on the neck" thing imposed by the network's S&P office. What do you suppose changed between 1967, when Barnabas had to restrict his biting of Willie to the wrist and 1969, when he bit Sandor on the neck (with great relish, I might add)?
Now, I think most of the violence towards women on Dark Shadows was in keeping with the characters and the stories, but how sad that S&P or the censors, or the Bible-thumpers or whoever seemed to have more of a problem with implied homosexuality or perceived Satanism than with violence towards women. What does that say about the culture?
Okay, I'm down off the soapbox now. ::)
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Mass media has hardly every led the culture. Hell, sometimes it barely keeps UP with it. And the reason for that is the simple fact that its primary function is to sell us things. NOT to educate us, or entertain us, much less enlighten us.
Sponsors respond like Pavlov's dogs to the slightest rise in complaints from even the smallest demographic. Why? Because they might not sell as much detergent or shampoo. Even cable stations have to be able to pull in sufficient numbers to justify their costs, and their bottom lines are still at the mercy of their viewer numbers and what amount they can charge for second showings on other channels.
If no one complained about the women on the show being smacked, bit, choked and murdered, then it was reasonablae to assume no one cared, and the sponsors would stay on board. Hint at homoeroticism and heads would have rolled.
And don't kid youselves into thinking that's changed. There's actually more violence done to female characters on TV today than ever before.....but now the women fight back, so that's supposed to make it okay.
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You could and very well are probably right Mr. Gothick. I myself have still never seen that episode! (Still haven't seen 90% of the Adam storyline either, but that is another story).
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...the performers (Julia in particular) having to utter "what you are" and such.
Oh my God, you mean Barnabas was--heaven forbid--one of those whose love dare not speak its name--"what you are"--a homosexual!! LOL.
Brian