DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '05 I => Topic started by: PennyDreadful on February 16, 2005, 06:12:01 PM
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I've been wondering about storylines, ideas, and plotlines the DS writers & Dan Curtis planned which never made it into the series.
These are the ones I know of, but they are unverified (i.e. I've heard them from fans over the years):
* Dan Curtis planned to do a mummy storyline but changed his mind because he felt a mummy was too "slow to catch anyone." Is this true? Does anyone know the details of this unused plot?
* They eventually planned to show the Leviathan creature and were going to have one built, but it was too expensive. Supposedly it was going to resemble the many-headed Naga serpent. (I heard this from a fan many years ago and he claims he read it in a magazine - this has never been verified to my knowledge so I have no idea how valid it is).
* A story about a cursed ring which would cause the wearer to become possessed and take on a new identity or somesuch (another unverified fan rumor I heard many years back).
Does anyone know of more unused DS ideas? Or can anyone verify any of the above?
~Penny Dreadful~
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Well, the best known example is the Sam Hall TV Guide article in which he wrote up his story notes for what would have been the wrap-up months of the series.
I think it would have been very cool to have brought Count Petofi back, but I believe most fans had had more than enough of the character well before the conclusion of the 1897 storyline.
G.
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I cannot verify any of the abandoned storylines, but that possible mummy storyline could have been interesting. If DC had gone the route of Karloff's The Mummy, it could have worked. After all, Karloff as Turhan Bey was pretty spry and agile.
(Pointless aside: I have always thought DC cribbed the Barnabas/Josette story directly from the 1933 version of The Mummy. You have a supernatural creature awakening in a modern time, meeting a woman that resembles his Lost Love (tm) from long ago, believes she is the reincarnation of said Lost Love and sets about trying to restore the previous incarnation's memories in the mind of the modern woman.)
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The TV Guide article was quite interesting but I'm sure that was Sam Hall's ideal version of what would have happened next. I think most of the world travelling definitely wouldn't have happened, and Curtis would have likely nixed some of the other stuff Hall speculated about in the article. I do think Adam and Petofi would have eventually returned though.
Yes Nelson, I too think the original Barnabas story was borrowed from the original Mummy film. I always thought a mummy storyline involving an ancient lover of Laura's would have been a great idea. I read on these boards awhile back that the mummy would have been a followup to 1897. I never knew any details about this proposed storyline though and am curious to find out more about it and other unused plotlines.
~Penny Dreadful~
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I, personally, am very happy that they didn't make a giant Scylla back then. No offense, but special effects weren't the best back then...and I didn't watching it until the late 90's, so then I would have gotten turned off to one of the greatest shows ever made. XD
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My version of an actual Leviathan creature on DS is very similar to the re-enactment of Bela Lugosi's struggle with the giant squid in "Ed Wood."
So, yeah, I have to agree with Ian that it's just as well they blue-pencilled it--although NOTHING could have kept me from becoming the Dark Shadows fanatic I remain to this day!
G.
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My version of an actual Leviathan creature on DS is very similar to the re-enactment of Bela Lugosi's struggle with the giant squid in "Ed Wood."
ROTFLMAO! That's hilarious Gothick! [laughing6]
I wonder if it's even true that they planned to show it at all, or if they knew all along it would have been
a bad idea. I'd love to see artist interpretations of what it looked like though. I know Frenchy (the 16 Magazine artist) did a little sketch of what she thought it might have looked like in her Chris Pennock montage.
~Penny Dreadful~
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After all, Karloff as Turhan Bey was pretty spry and agile.
Make that Ardeth Bey..... ;)....(it's one of my all time favorite films.)
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Here's that Frenchy pic. Her vision of the Leviathan is the scaly kitty-cat looking thing with snakes coming out of it in the bottom left corner...
http://www.hollowmoon.net/sites/darknessfalls/images/misc/misc15.jpg
I'm guessing if they had done a mummy it would have started as a bandaged, slow-moving undead being and would have eventually become the intelligent Ardeth Bey type.
~PennyDreadful~
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Wow, Penny, that Frenchy drawing is STUNNING.
If you hadn't said so, I wouldn't have know what "Levia-kitty" was meant to be.
Y'know, I vaguely recall seeing that picture Back in the Day. I was quite the slavish reader of !6, Tiger Beat, and the rest of them... just because of their DS coverage.
If you like Chris Pennock, there are some *gorgeous* screen captures the Mysterious Benefactor did way back of Jeb in his one shirtless scene, the one where he's wearing those pj bottoms (too bad they didn't just slip off... hee hee!). I thought CP was a sexy mofo back then, but that seems to be a minority view.
G.
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I read on these boards awhile back that the mummy would have been a followup to 1897. I never knew any details about this proposed storyline though and am curious to find out more about it and other unused plotlines.
When it comes to what others have posted, be careful about what you believe. Most people cite their sources, and if it's a credible source and/or they provide actual excerpts, you can most likely believe it. But if something is stated without a source, it *might* just be their own opinion or a rumor they're repeating. ;)
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Sorry to correct yet again, but the Karloff character in The Mummy was ARDATH BEY (not ArDETH).
I've seen that movie so many times I can recite practically every word of dialogue in it. And I STILL enjoy watching it! Yeah, I really should get a life.
G.
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Here's that Frenchy pic. ...
http://www.hollowmoon.net/sites/darknessfalls/images/misc/misc15.jpg
The image is on Arashi's site. Here's her DS home page-- Darkness Falls (http://www.hollowmoon.net/sites/darknessfalls/)
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If you like Chris Pennock, there are some *gorgeous* screen captures the Mysterious Benefactor did way back of Jeb in his one shirtless scene, the one where he's wearing those pj bottoms (too bad they didn't just slip off... hee hee!).
That would be this topic:
and you know that you want these (Part2). So, here are some captures from episode #969:
Enjoy! [b003]
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Sorry to correct yet again, but the Karloff character in The Mummy was ARDATH BEY (not ArDETH).
I've seen that movie so many times I can recite practically every word of dialogue in it. And I STILL enjoy watching it! Yeah, I really should get a life.
I'll take your word for it Steve.....but would you believe that GOOGLE has 4,520 entries for ArdEth as opposed to 2,310 for ArdAth?......[lghy]
Anyone have a copy of the original print? [smrtasb]
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Hmmmm... thanks for that link, darling Mysterioso.
It reminds me there was definitely SOMETHING hinted at there that I WANTED to see, but never did... on DS...
*sly wink* G.
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I quote from the published credits on us.imdb.com
Boris Karloff .... Im-ho-tep, alias Ardath Bey
yep, somebody definitely has WAY too much time on his hands today.
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yep, somebody definitely has WAY too much time on his hands today.
You're not alone.... I have my kid tossing the house looking for my VHS copy of the film....[lghy]
BTW....is it available on DVD?
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would you believe that GOOGLE has 4,520 entries for ArdEth as opposed to 2,310 for ArdAth?......[lghy]
I'd definitely believe it. Spelling variations can be the single worst nightmare when you're trying to look up something on the Internet! ::) You'll often miss out on a lot of informative sites simply because someone has misspelled something. :(
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I'd definitely believe it. Spelling variations can be the single worst nightmare when you're trying to look up something on the Internet! ::) You'll often miss out on a lot of informative sites simply because someone has misspelled something. :(
Google has 4,030 results for Barnabus "Dark Shadows".
:-X
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You'll often miss out on a lot of informative sites simply because someone has misspelled something. :(
You mean someone like me.....who treats the rules of spelling as though they were mere suggestions...... ::)
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You mean someone like me.....who treats the rules of spelling as though they were mere suggestions...... ::)
I wasn't pointing any fingers. [gring]
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You mean someone like me.....who treats the rules of spelling as though they were mere suggestions...... ::)
I wasn't pointing any fingers. [gring]
You didn't have to, Pepe.....[lghy]
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You're not alone.... I have my kid tossing the house looking for my VHS copy of the film....[lghy]
You mean you don't keep your tape in a place of honor where you can easily access it and watch it every year just before Halloween? [shkdb]
BTW....is it available on DVD?
Yes, all the Universal Monster films were recently released in DVD boxed sets (Frankenstein: the Legacy Collection, Dracula: the Legacy Collection, etc.) to coincide with the release of Van Helsing. The Mummy Legacy would include Karloff's Mummy and the four Kharis films (The Mummy's Hand, The Mummy's Tomb, The Mummy's Ghost, and The Mummy's Curse). There's also a separate boxed set with the newest Brendan Fraser Mummy movies (also by Universal), so be careful of which one you buy.
ProfStokes
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I've been wondering about storylines, ideas, and plotlines the DS writers & Dan Curtis planned which never made it into the series.
There's Seaview. That's the house Vicki falls in love with and Burke tries to buy. They were clearly going toward a haunted house thing with that one. Not sure why that got dropped like the proverbial hot potato.
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Now...I may be thinking that this may have been shown in the show before...since I'm unfortunately not the most avid watcher...wish I could be. Oh well...anyways:
Didn't they just drop the storyline with Vicki's parents?
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Didn't they just drop the storyline with Vicki's parents?
Yep, they definitely left that plot thread dangling. In the pre-Barnabas eps they dropped hints about her parentage but we never found out the truth.
~Penny Dreadful~
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I've been wondering about storylines, ideas, and plotlines the DS writers & Dan Curtis planned which never made it into the series.
There's Seaview. That's the house Vicki falls in love with and Burke tries to buy. They were clearly going toward a haunted house thing with that one. Not sure why that got dropped like the proverbial hot potato.
i would have liked to see more of "seaview" as well.it had interesting possibilities.but that unresolved plotline occured shortly before the 1795 arc and i think that they decided to go after bigger fish.
and let's not forget that after 1795 nearly EVERY SINGLE PLOT that occured before it was dropped like that proverbial hot potato. ::)
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i would have liked to see more of "seaview" as well.it had interesting possibilities.
Yes, I wonder what exactly they had planned for the Seaview house. I agree, it was probably going to be a "haunted house" type tale with Vicki at the center of it no doubt.
and let's not forget that after 1795 nearly EVERY SINGLE PLOT that occured before it was dropped like that proverbial hot potato. ::)
Absolutely. Why, for example, was David no longer terrified of Barnabas after 1795?! I mean, he pretty much knew Barnabas was a vampire at that point, flat out stating that Barnabas was "dead!" I figure either Barnabas hypnotized David into forgetting, or David realized Barnabas wasn't a vampire any more after seeing him walk around in the daylight later on. I wonder where that would have gone had they pursued it.
I wonder if Dan Curtis or the show's writers would remember any unused plots at this point. It'd be interesting to find out what didn't make the "final cut" so to speak.
~Penny Dreadful~
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You mean you don't keep your tape in a place of honor where you can easily access it and watch it every year just before Halloween? [shkdb]
Well, yes, actually....I do. But when I went looking for it, it wasn't where it was supposed to be. Thus, the house tossing. What's worse is that it still hasn't been located. Now I have to determine which member of the household was fool enough to lend it to someone else, and impose the appropriate penalty.[13]
Yes, all the Universal Monster films were recently released in DVD boxed sets
Thank you , Professor. Now that you mention it, I remember being in a store with my husband debating the purchase of one of those sets. If I can't locate the tape, I might have to buy the DVD now. ;)
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After all, Karloff as Turhan Bey was pretty spry and agile.
Make that Ardeth Bey..... ;)....(it's one of my all time favorite films.)
OOPS. I stand corrected (no matter how it's spelled! :) ) I wonder where I got "Turhan" from??
Anyhoo, interesting that there are so many rabid fans of Karloff's The Mummy! ;D So, I guess you do see what I mean vis a vis the similarities between the Im-ho-tep/Anckesen-Amon and Barnabas/Josette love stories.
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Yes, the Barnabas-Josette storyline does bear a powerful resemblance to The Mummy. I suspect that Dan Curtis must have been inspired by it. The only slight difference is that Helen really was the reincarnation of Im-ho-tep's lost love, whereas Maggie was not really Josette.
OOPS. I stand corrected (no matter how it's spelled! :) ) I wonder where I got "Turhan" from??
An actor called Turhan Bey played Mehemet, the high priest of Karnak (or maybe by then it was Arkham) in The Mummy's Tomb.
Rabid ProfStokes
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Yes, the Barnabas-Josette storyline does bear a powerful resemblance to The Mummy. I suspect that Dan Curtis must have been inspired by it. The only slight difference is that Helen really was the reincarnation of Im-ho-tep's lost love, whereas Maggie was not really Josette.
Ah, well. I guess I had always thought that Maggie was a reincarnation of Josette, but I realize that I was probably reading more into it that was there, seeing the resemblance to the storylines. :) Or perhaps it was HODS that suggested that Maggie was a reincarnation. I have an impression that it was at least hinted at some point, but again, it may be that it was only Barnabas who thought this. :)
Didn't DC work that storyline element into his version of Dracula with Jack Palance? It's been so many years since I have seen it, I don't remember.
I do, however, very strongly remember the first time I say Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula, and thinking what an obvious swipe from the Dark Shadows Barn/Josette story the Dracula/Mina story was!! ;D (though again, in FFC's Dracula Mina is a reincarnation of Dracula's wife Elizabetha, though there are some strong similarities the the DS story as well.)
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The only slight difference is that Helen really was the reincarnation of Im-ho-tep's lost love, whereas Maggie was not really Josette.
No she wasn't. They could have done allot more with that storyline though. I would have liked to have seen Josette's ghost take over Maggie but, then again, knowing Josette as we all did eventually, she was too gentle for that kind of stuff. But it would have been cool to have Josette's ghost inhabit Maggie briefly and connect with Barnabas.
I wonder if Dan Curtis did take his stories from the old horror movies or was it coincidence?
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Sam Hall told an interviewer that they used to go through old stuff all the time for story ideas.
And no one could have come up with the head in a box thing who hadn't seen The Thing that Wouldn't Die.
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(though again, in FFC's Dracula Mina is a reincarnation of Dracula's wife Elizabetha, though there are some strong similarities the the DS story as well.)
OT, but as long as we're talking about Dracula...
The Elizabetha I'm assuming you're talking about is referring to the real life Countess Elizabeth Bathory, who was a descendant of the legendary Vlad Tepes, later known as Vlad Dracul, later known as Count Dracula. Elizabeth was convinced that if she bathed in the blood of virgin women, she would remain young and immortal.
Here's some more information on her from http://www.bathory.org/
"Erzsebet was arrested by Count Thurzo and his compatriots, an arrest that was political in nature. The aging Countess -- quite old for those times of ill health and early death -- had become an embarrassment, particularly since she had begun to kill members of the royalty, and despite (and perhaps because of) her high placement in the Bƒ¡thory family as cousin to the Polish king and holder of vast amounts of royal land.
Anna Darvulia had gone blind, and then died sometime earlier, probably of tuberculosis. Ferenc Nadasdy had been killed in battle several years earlier.
Two trials brought by Thurzo were held in 1611, one in Hungarian and one in Latin. A later tribunal with more than 200 witnesses was convened by King Matthias II. Erzsebet and her servants were found guilty and had their punishments set by the Bicse judge. Helena Jo and Dorattya Szentes were tortured and burned at the stake in 1611. Janos Ujvary was beheaded. Katalin Beneczky was spared death, and her fate is unknown.
Erzsebet herself was walled into her torture chamber, where she died after three years of imprisonment, in 1614.
All records of Erzsebet were sealed for more than a century, and her name was forbidden to be spoken in Hungarian society." [From: http://bathory.org/erzstale.html]
Sooo...there you go. Enjoy my darker side. XD
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Sam Hall told an interviewer that they used to go through old stuff all the time for story ideas.
Yep, I've heard the writers actually kept a rolodex (not sure if they meant this literally or not) of famous horror story synopses! I can't help but think of the Spoof comics DS parody with Barnabas reading the book "Plagiarism For Fun and Profit!" ;D
Ian, a friend of mine wants to write a musical about Elizabeth Bathory, the Blood Countess! He said he was going to write it as a dark comedy! :o I'll have to ask him if he's made any progress!
~Penny Dreadful~
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(though again, in FFC's Dracula Mina is a reincarnation of Dracula's wife Elizabetha, though there are some strong similarities the the DS story as well.)
OT, but as long as we're talking about Dracula...
The Elizabetha I'm assuming you're talking about is referring to the real life Countess Elizabeth Bathory, who was a descendant of the legendary Vlad Tepes, later known as Vlad Dracul, later known as Count Dracula. Elizabeth was convinced that if she bathed in the blood of virgin women, she would remain young and immortal.
I am familiar with the Countess Bathory story, but was not aware that she was distantly related to Vlad Tepes. However, the Elizabetha I was referring to was the character that was Dracula's wife when he was alive. In the film, Dracul left her to go to war and one of his enemies smuggled a letter to her falsely saying that he had been killed. So distraught was Elizabetha by the news of her husband's death she threw herself off the highest parapet of their castle home. The wife was played by Winona Ryder, who also played Mina Harker and in that film it was made pretty plain that Mina was a reincarnation of Dracul's wife. Since KLS played both Maggie and Josette and Josette also (but for different reasons) plunged to her death and in the "contemporary" story, Dracula is trying to reconnect with his Lost Love (tm) is why I suggested that FCC prettly baldly swiped elements of the Barn/Maggie/Josette story from DS for his version of Dracula.
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Ahhh...now I understand. Thanks for the clarification, Nelson. :)
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I would have liked for Chris Jennings to return to Collinsport and find a way to break his curse. I would also have liked Joe to be cured from his madness and get back with Maggie.
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:o Wow! I just saw the Leviathan Kitty picture! Nicely done!! NowI have some idea of what
the Leviathan Creature might havelooked like.
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NowI have some idea of what the Leviathan Creature might have looked like.
I know this has been said before here on the board, but I really think that NOT showing the creature was the wisest thing they could have done with that (definitely not my favorite) storyline. First of all, as mentioned earlier in this thread; whatever special effects would have been used would by now be nearly comical in this case. I even get a chuckle out of some of the more subtle ones - like that silly looking shadow that follows Jeb around. And need I mention our little friend Squeaky Bat who looked like an escapee from Ed Wood's prop closet? Something on the scale of "the creature" would probably have us all wincing, rolling on the floor or both. Leaving it to the imagination - like an old radio drama - was an inexpensive way to create something uniquely hideous for everyone. In my own personal vision, I wasn't seeing kitties and snakes, but something slimey and green - more in the neighborhood of Jabba the Hutt - who, by the sound of him, was keeping himself busy making obscene phone calls all over Collinsport when he was stuck in that room upstairs.
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Castlebee,
Can you just see "Jebba" the Hut and our poor Carolyn creating a race of beings? After reading your post, I imagined Carolyn in the place of Princess Leya(sp) [shockeyes] [tongue9]
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Watching all this I thought, early on, they're going to put us through all this and never show us the damn snake, or blob, or whatever, are they??!! After all the boredom and straight-line simplicity of that storyline (really disappointing after 1897, which had complexity and overlapping storylines enough to please anyone) , a glimpse is the least they could have done.
They didn't always trip up as regards the props and effects. The Hand was very well done, and left more of a lasting impression with me as a kid, than anything else on the program. Barnabas's old age mask was so incredible that they brought it out again for one of the large-screen films. (The only time I've ever seen convincing old-age makeup, anywhere.) What they could have done was to build a portion of the creature, a really unexpected-looking, startling small portion, and have it occupy just a bit of the screen, as we look past this to see at the same time a human's horrified response, all taking place in the dim light of the Room, so any flaws are hidden, and the mystery quotient is dialed up. (I'm getting verbose today, sorry)
Sure, it's great to leave things to the imagination, but the imagination needs to have a little something to work with. An effective, horrifying image such as this might even have inspired the writers to come up with better material. Their imaginations need something to spark them, too. Asthma and a locked door over and over wouldn't inspire me, I know.
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I think the scenario you described would have worked Magnus. I did want to see what it really looked like, but I'm sure they couldn't have afforded a decent full-frontal view. Some dimly-lit portion of it would have been really cool though. I think it probably had some snake-like element to it because the Naga serpent was such a prevalent Leviathan symbol. Couple a multi-headed snake with some horrific, hellish Lovecraftian being and I think that might just equal the Leviathan creature. I mean, if it causes madness just to even look at the thing it must really be unimaginably terrifying.
~Penny Dreadful~
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Sure, it's great to leave things to the imagination, but the imagination needs to have a little something to work with. An effective, horrifying image such as this might even have inspired the writers to come up with better material. Their imaginations need something to spark them, too. Asthma and a locked door over and over wouldn't inspire me, I know.
Given that their other attempts at F/X were so horrid--I speak here of the Moon Poppy, the Construction Paper Shadow from Hell, the Incredible Shrinking Werewolf--I tend to think that not depicting the Leviathans was a very smart move on someone's part.
There's a scene in The Bad and the Beautiful that was based in part on Val Lewton's experience making Cat People. Small budget film and the intent was to have actors wearing a jungle cat suit to depict the monsters. In the movie, we see that what ends up happening is that it looks just like actors wearing jungle cat suits. So the producer decides never to show the audience exactly what the jungle cat looks like. 100% more effective.
They would have had some stunt guy underneath a painted sheet or something. His hand would have been visible or his face and they wouldn't have stopped shooting. And it would have looked exactly like some stunt guy underneath a painted sheet.
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As unlikely as it would have been, a good, imaginative Leviathan prop could have saved the storyline, and the series. They wouldn't have had to resort to another influx of "atmosphere" via 1840 (to reproduce 1897).