DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '26 I => Current Talk '17 I => Topic started by: Patti Feinberg on February 09, 2017, 03:41:06 AM

Title: Exteriors
Post by: Patti Feinberg on February 09, 2017, 03:41:06 AM: Through the years, I've read what some cousins have mentioned about the exteriors (and, what real buildings they are).

Until these early eps, I never noticed/saw them.

I'm specifically mentioning shots of David going into the Old House. The columns are very high. That wasn't common until mid-1800s, was it? The columns themselves are very wide (although, this might be 'perspective', i.e., David is a boy).

Which real life building are the shots of the exterior of the Old House?

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More on Buildings:

While trying to find Victoria AGAINSTILLMORE, I think it's Burke who asks Elizabeth how many buildings are on the grounds; she says just the main house, the O.H., some sheds, (I think she says a barn, but, I could be wrong on that), and she says the caretakers house.

At it's height, there were *I believe* 3 'other' small houses on the grounds (not including main or old houses), nor Seacrest.

Am I correct, or, incorrect?

Patti
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Gerard on February 09, 2017, 11:37:58 AM: The Seaview/Carey Mansion in Newport, RI, of course, served as the exterior of Collinwood. A wing of it, at least during the early seasons of DS, also served as the exterior of the caretaker's cottage.

The Old House exterior was a mansion located on or near the Lyndhurst Estate in NYS. It burned down during the run of the series; fortunately, all the stills and film of it on the show "survived" to be used over and over again.

I don't know exactly how many structures stood on the Collinwood estate according to the writers. As per DS, I'm sure it changed based upon the plot. We know there was the Main House, the Old House and the caretaker's cottage for sure. As for the others, it was never made clear. There were several "cottages by the sea" (such as the one where Laura went up, and the one where the delirious middle-aged Carolyn lived in 1995), but it was not ascertained, as far as I know, if they were a part of the estate or near it. Then there's Rose Cottage. No one knows what to make of that.

Gerard
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Midnite on February 09, 2017, 10:48:47 PM: Quote from: Gerard on February 09, 2017, 11:37:58 AM
The Seaview/Carey Mansion in Newport, RI, of course, served as the exterior of Collinwood. A wing of it, at least during the early seasons of DS, also served as the exterior of the caretaker's cottage.

The scenes outside the caretaker's cottage as well as the Collinwood garages were filmed at the Lyndhurst stables.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Patti Feinberg on February 10, 2017, 04:44:34 AM: So, the building with the large outdoor columns are Seaview, which was in real life Carey Mansion?

Does anyone know when the Carey Mansion was built?

(That would be creepy, working on a show that shows a house, which in real life burns down, if you follow my somewhat zig-zag logic.)

Patti
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 10, 2017, 05:36:02 AM: The exterior of Seaview/Carey Mansion was used as Collinwood. Seaview as it appears now was completed in 1925.

The real name of the house that was used as the exterior of the Old House was the Spratt Mansion. It's the house that burned. And it was also located on the Lyndhurst grounds.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Gothick on February 10, 2017, 01:41:27 PM: Hi Patti,

This is a cool article on the history of Seaview Terrace. The existing structure combines two houses. One house was originally built in Washington DC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaview_Terrace

I think there is a web article somewhere on the Spratt House as well. Ruins reportedly are still visible on the site. It is somewhere away from the main grounds I think.

Yeah, here's one page for that house:

http://www.hudsonvalleyruins.org/yasinsac/spratt/spratt.html

In the original DS backstory, Barnabas, Josette and Jeremiah were all living at Collinwood in the 1830s. For some reason the date 1837 sticks in my head for when Barnabas originally became a vampire. I don't know why. It might have been mentioned in an episode. The style of Collinwood does not fit at all the period of the 1830s, but I think the style of the Old House does.

Best, G.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Gothick on February 10, 2017, 02:01:14 PM: Also, it is worth noting that Dan Curtis started planning a flashback storyline that would reveal how Barnabas became a vampire as early as August of 1967. It is documented in some letters that Jonathan Frid sent to his mother that somehow wound up being owned and distributed by a fan. I don't know at what point DC decided that the flashback story would be set in the 1790s. I've always wondered if the backdating happened simply because a costume rental company had stuff available for the 18th century, but nothing on hand for the 1830s era. An odd thing is that the last big flashback story they did was set in 1840 which was pretty close to the original period for Barnabas, Josette and the others. As you'll have noticed, Josette originally had a different name--not du Pres.

G.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 10, 2017, 05:19:25 PM: Quote from: Gothick on February 10, 2017, 01:41:27 PM
The style of Collinwood does not fit at all the period of the 1830s, but I think the style of the Old House does.

The original backstory for Collinwood was that Jeremiah built it for Josette, so that would be why it's in the French Châteauesque style of architecture. Once they dropped that backstory in the 1795/96 storyline, the style of Collinwood embodied by Seaview made no sense whatsoever. [snow_rolleyes]

As for the Old House, I love how Stokes describes it as Greek Revival before they got it right. [snow_laugh] But it's a good way to explain away the fact that the Old House was built in the 1760s but Greek Revival is most associated with the period of 1825 through 1860. (I also love how Stokes says he finds the Old House more satisfying than Collinwood. I've often wondered if that was an acknowledgement from the writers that they realized that the 1795/96 backstory for Collinwood made it's French Châteauesque style way off base? [snow_wink])
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Gothick on February 11, 2017, 04:07:51 AM: I'd personally call Seaview Terrace Queen Anne with some French features, but let's face it, the house is a complete hodgepodge architecturally. Of course that just makes me love it all the more.

I'd forgotten Stokes's remarks about the Old House. Maybe an excuse to revisit the early Stokes episodes...

Best, G.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: michael c on February 11, 2017, 11:29:29 AM: needless to say the size of Collinwood is completely out of scale with anything built in this country in the 18th century. it looked like what it was: a mansion put up by the nouveau riche robber barons of the late 19th century.

in the brief segment set in the 1600s the notion of a house of this scale being plunked down in the middle of the colonial wilds was even more ludicrous.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 11, 2017, 03:37:04 PM: Well, at least in 1680PT we have no idea what the history of the time or even the country was, so it could have easily worked then/there.

And as for Collinwood in all the other times, well, we can just tell ourselves that the Collinses were a different breed from everyone else. That's one of the reasons I have no problem believing they had indoor plumbing at the Old House and also at Collinwood in 1795 because it was available in other parts of the world if one was rich enough to have it. Who cares if no one else in America had it - Joshua Collins could have and would have had it... [b003]
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 11, 2017, 03:53:15 PM: Quote from: Gothick on February 11, 2017, 04:07:51 AM
I'd personally call Seaview Terrace Queen Anne with some French features

I once did a couple posts explaining that Seaview is mostly in the French Eclectic style (and included photographic evidence to show why that is) -

Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on November 12, 2005, 07:22:50 AM
Re: Yeah, Big House, See, Yeah

Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on November 16, 2005, 06:36:06 AM
Re: Yeah, Big House, See, Yeah

- which is why the original backstory that Jeremiah built Collinwood for Josette worked perfectly.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Patti Feinberg on February 13, 2017, 01:29:27 AM: Since Vicki is STILL trapped in O.H., I wonder...where is the kitchen and eating area supposed to be?
Also, for 'wealthy' people, the OH only 'appears' to have the one 'living room'; I know early Americans didn't want to be associated with Europe, but, obviously larger homes were.

In O.H., there would have HAD to have 5-7 BRs; Ma & Pa Kettle (which, I'm sure everyone knows, if you weren't poor, husband & wife normally had separate BRs), Jeremiah (right?),Sarah, Barn, Aunt Abigail, and, when our friends from Martinique come a visiting, IIRC, they all stayed in OH also (I'm a little fuzzy on if Countess DuPres stayed in same room w/Chjozette).
So:
1) Joshua
2) Naomi
3) Abigail
4) Jeremiah
5) Sarah
6) Barnabas
7, 8, 9 extra rooms.

Plus, downstairs rooms for servants.

The downstairs of the house would have HAD to have 3-6 more rooms, or the house would topple over!

Patti
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on February 13, 2017, 01:36:57 AM: Quote from: Patti Feinberg on February 13, 2017, 01:29:27 AM
The downstairs of the house would have HAD to have 3-6 more rooms, or the house would topple over!

That's too funny, Patti!! [lghy] But you forget another alternative - maybe there are more secret rooms on the first floor of the Old House than we're aware of. [b003] Either that, or the interior of the secret room behind the bookcase is A LOT BIGGER than we're aware!! [shkdb]
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Uncle Roger on February 13, 2017, 04:37:10 PM: If the PT Collinwood was already built in 1680, it is kind of mind boggling to speculate just how old "the old house" is.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Patti Feinberg on February 14, 2017, 12:27:57 AM: Does anyone know when it was commonplace to have a basement?

Without modern excavators, etc., how long would it take for men to dig all that dirt out?

(My father bought a late 1800s Victorian, with a basement.)

Plus, and I have no idea, how do you keep the foundation (the bottom, where you walk, NOT the basement) up? (I'm not sure if I phrased that correctly.)

Root cellars have been around, but, since a house is not on top of them, they're strickly dirt, terra firma. Wine cellars if I'm not mistaken, are also inside 'dirt' (temperature underground I believe is always 54' F).
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: michael c on February 14, 2017, 02:36:47 AM: the writers made sure from the jump that there were "reasons" why most of the house was closed off (reclusive matriarch. straitened circumstances. buried secrets)...

but there was considerable practical consideration in play as well (tiny set. low production values). but making it part of the story kept viewer questions as to why only 5 or 6 rooms of such an immense mansion were being seen at a minimum.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Patti Feinberg on February 15, 2017, 04:21:15 AM: Quote from: michael c on February 14, 2017, 02:36:47 AM
but making it part of the story kept viewer questions as to why only 5 or 6 rooms of such an immense mansion were being seen at a minimum.

Can you expand on this? Did anyone (specifically, first/original run) question, "Why are we only seeing 'x' amount of rooms"?

Also, and this I would believe, because we've all posted about it, how, early eps, kitchen and 'dining area' (Collinwood would have had a large dining hall).

As long as we're talking about rooms and such, it has ALWAYS bothered me that people entering the house put their coats on a table in foyer. Occassionally we see people near the door getting their coats on. Who plops a coat on a table (excluding children)??

Patti
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Gerard on February 15, 2017, 10:52:35 AM: There was that kitchen set used in the early years of the series where everyone drank coffee and Mrs. Johnson smoked her cigarettes. It was one of my favorite sets and sadly vanished. In PT70, the kitchen reappeared with the butler/cook/candlestick-maker/etc. "Trask" did his work, albeit it was a completely different set.

Gerard
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: KMR on February 15, 2017, 07:48:10 PM: Quote from: Patti Feinberg on February 15, 2017, 04:21:15 AM
Can you expand on this? Did anyone (specifically, first/original run) question, "Why are we only seeing 'x' amount of rooms"?

Also, and this I would believe, because we've all posted about it, how, early eps, kitchen and 'dining area' (Collinwood would have had a large dining hall).

As long as we're talking about rooms and such, it has ALWAYS bothered me that people entering the house put their coats on a table in foyer. Occassionally we see people near the door getting their coats on. Who plops a coat on a table (excluding children)??

I think it might have been reasonable for the writers to assume viewers might question why such a large house had so few rooms visible in the series. But then again, it might also be the case that soap opera viewers were quite used to seeing just a few rooms of any given house in the story. But probably the major reason for saying that wings of the house were closed off was because it adds a sense of mystery to the place, and allows more places for the spooky goings-on.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Gerard on February 16, 2017, 01:45:00 AM: Actually, I think if anyone can somehow count all the rooms that were seen on the series, the tally would be more than surprising. Granted, many were in the closed off wings, within secret passageways, and even in the basement. I can think of at least 15 separate rooms off-hand. Of course, none were a bathroom. Maybe that's why so many living there had those looks on their faces.

Gerard
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: KMR on February 16, 2017, 07:01:49 PM: Quote from: Gerard on February 16, 2017, 01:45:00 AM
Of course, none were a bathroom. Maybe that's why so many living there had those looks on their faces.

[snow_laugh]
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: michael c on February 17, 2017, 12:28:50 AM: in the "present day" timeline we saw...

the foyer, the drawing room, the study, the kitchen/breakfast room, bedrooms for (at various times) vicki/maggie, liz, carolyn, david, roger, julia. willie. jason, amy, hallie and an attic room for quentin. and some no-doubt dumpy (unseen) servant's room for mrs. j.

of course there were countless assorted and sundry closed-off basement and attic rooms as well (and not counting the rooms in the other time periods/alternate time bands). so that does make about 15 rooms actively used during the series run.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Gerard on February 17, 2017, 02:16:50 AM: Add to those, Michael, Quentin's (sealed off) room, the antechamber attached to it, the empty parallel time room and, like I said, sundry "closed" rooms where various characters found stored-away items as in the Quentin haunting plot as well as the Gerard one, the main cellar room, the locked room where "Paul" was "buried," and, oh, so possibly many others. We've probably crossed into well over twenty, just in normal, regular time. Don't forget the room David locked Vicki in where Bill's soaked spook appeared to her as well as the corridor outside filled with discarded furnishings. One may, if he/she wants, count the patio outside the drawing room with the sometimes working fountain. We might be approaching 25. That's pretty hefty stuff for sets considering it was all shot in a claustrophobic studio with limited space on a "limited" (meaning cheap) budget. I've always taken umbrage when people say DS "skimped" on spending money. Considering all those sets (whether in Collinwood, at the Old House, at the Blue Whale, Roger's office, restaurants, and so many, many, many other places) the series far out-classed all other soap operas at the same time. And when taken into account that it was done "live-on-tape" with scenes shot primarily in sequence, with all that limited space, that was an incredible thing to do. From one day to the next, stuff had to be shuffled around, set up, taken down, recycled and then the process started all over again the next day. One of the DS books talked about it and how difficult but brilliantly it had been done, even showing "deck plans" as to how it was accomplished. Granted, the quality did suffer in later years. And even in the "pristine" years, it wasn't perfect with tombstones wabbling when bumped and "bushes" with Charlie-Brown-Christmas-tree bases toppling over, cameras panning back too far to reveal that "grass" was a rumpled mat with the flooring clearly visible, but, still, it was far above and beyond anything offered on daytime TV at that time.

But, also still, where were those bathrooms? And not a single TV set in the whole house? The only one we saw was in Buffy's apartment in '70 parallel time. That's where she probably watched soaps like Space is a Many Splendored Love, and prime-time shows like The Partridge Bunch.

Gerard
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Patti Feinberg on February 17, 2017, 03:10:34 AM: Quote from: michael c on February 17, 2017, 12:28:50 AM
and some no-doubt dumpy (unseen) servant's room for mrs. j.
And for Ben Stokes, and Angelique (hers was upstairs, I reckon to be closer to ChJosette).

Also, we cannot forget the tower room!

I'm assuming Amy's room became Hallie's room.

But, then there's the closet that sometimes becomes a playroom.

IIRC, there's two masoleums...one, since ((Laura's)) come to town, we'll be visiting soon, and, of course the 'regular' one with lion's head secret passage.

Funny, we've mentioned how DC didn't like going over 5 actors (that's one of the questions on that Quiz Up game I've mentioned I play), but in last ep, Garner & Garner, Maggie, Vicki, Roger, Sam. Okay, that's 5. But I've been counting 6-7 ALOT of late. I know that won't last, except on occassions.

Wait...THREE masoleums....the one where Liz 'goes'.

Patti

[edited by admin]
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Midnite on February 17, 2017, 08:53:54 PM: Quote from: Gerard on February 17, 2017, 02:16:50 AM
And not a single TV set in the whole house? The only one we saw was in Buffy's apartment in '70 parallel time.

We saw two TV sets on the series-- that one (http://darkshadows.wikia.com/wiki/Category:1021) in Collinsport (1st image in DS Wiki's Gallery) and this one in Bangor:

(http://www.dsboards.com/images/Motel2tv.jpg)
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: dom on February 17, 2017, 09:25:52 PM: I wonder if it's the same one. I haven't put it under a microscope but it looks like it.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Gerard on February 18, 2017, 12:44:15 AM: Good detective work, Midnite! It actually looks exactly like the "portable" set we got from my parents back in '69 one Christmas that was kept on top of the refrigerator by my mom so she could watch Days of Our Lives while she prepared lunch. Like Dom said, I wonder if it was the same set in Buffy's apartment.

Now, if anyone can find that one, just one, pic of a bathroom, he or she will win the Agatha Christie award. But then, there were no bathrooms on the USS Enterprise, either (at least there were on the starship in ST-TNG). No wonder that five-year-mission caused the equal amount of angst as on DS.

Oh, speaking of that portable we got and a DS connection, I remember when, for the first time, I was allowed to "stay up late" by my parents. Back then, there was something called CBS Late Night At the Movies. At 10:30 p.m. (CST), it would air a film. One night, it was Hammer's Horror of Dracula with DS-12 alumnus Christopher Lee. I begged and pleaded with my parents to allow me to stay up and watch it. They capitulated. I was so excited. That very day, as I prepped myself for my late night viewing, my mom sent me to a local supermarket to pick up a few things. When I was there, on the news stand, was the copy of Look magazine that contained the story (paraphrased here, because I don't remember the exact wording): "Can A 200-Year-Old Vampire Find Love in Maine?" It was about, of course, the cultural phenomenon of DS. I scooped it up. Filled with words and pictures, I read it sitting on the front porch. Of course, that DS collector's edition I purchased has long since disappeared. But I consumed it.

Then the night came. My parents watched the ten-o'clock news and told me I could watch my "crappy movie" on the portable in the kitchen. They went to bed. I took it down from the refrigerator and set it on the kitchen table. I watched THOD mesmerized until 12:30 a.m. It was the latest I was, until then, allowed to stay up "that late."

Gerard
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Josette on February 18, 2017, 06:34:49 AM: Quote from: Gerard on February 18, 2017, 12:44:15 AM
Now, if anyone can find that one, just one, pic of a bathroom, he or she will win the Agatha Christie award. But then, there were no bathrooms on the USS Enterprise, either (at least there were on the starship in ST-TNG). No wonder that five-year-mission caused the equal amount of angst as on DS.

You're kidding! I don't recall there ever being a bathroom on the show.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: dom on February 18, 2017, 03:33:42 PM: Mr. Wells was using the "facilities" when Burke and Vicki first entered The Collinsport Inn in episode one.
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Gerard on February 18, 2017, 04:25:12 PM: Quote from: Josette on February 18, 2017, 06:34:49 AM
You're kidding! I don't recall there ever being a bathroom on the show.

On ST-TNG, there were several scenes showing the bathrooms in the crews' private quarters, including one of a crewwoman who, wrapped in a towel after stepping out of the shower, was brushing her hair as she looked in the mirror over the bathroom sink. Surprising, isn't it?

Gerard
Title: Re: Exteriors
Post by: Patti Feinberg on February 20, 2017, 05:31:03 AM: Well, no toilet, but these early Laura eps; Liz says to David, "Don't you want to wash up before your mother arrives"? David says yes and he goes upstairs.

(He later tells Vicki that he even brushed his hair.)

Patti