DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '02 I => Topic started by: Darren Gross on March 28, 2002, 01:41:32 AM
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Most of you board regulars have heard this before, but we've got some new members, so...
The standard release of HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS runs 97 mins. A few 16mm prints were struck and distributed which contained several cut scenes. These ran anywhere from 5-15 mins longer and the studio (MGM/Turner) and Dan Curtis do not have them any more.
If you own a 16mm print of the film, PLEASE email me immediately. The prints are probably fairly worn and certainly fading (they were printed on Eastmancolor stock). I'm desperate to preserve and restore this footage before the color deteriorates beyond saving or the film is damaged beyond restoration. Even completely red or pinkish faded prints can be of use!
We're (DCP and myself) offering a hefty cash reward in order to borrow one of these prints and could probably throw in some nice perks (lunch with one of the actors or something) as well.
If you know someone that has a print, please let me know. I've been at this for about 2 years now and have yet to find a single person. I'd love to show this missing footage at a DS Festival- but we need your help to find it first! Keep you're eyes open at garage sales or flea markets- lost TV series episodes (Dr. Who etc.) and other rare lost footage has been found this way. You never know!
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Hi Darren, I was under the impression that the restoration of NODS and HODS was basically scrapped. That there was no interest in pursuing it. I hope this message that you are writing here, means that you are still having hope that the restoration project is still alive and well. If this is the case, then what progress have you heard of or what progress is being made to have these movies restored and available to the public to view. If you can answer these questions, then please let us know. It's just that I have heard nothing for so long and was wondering. Thank You Darren.
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SCRAPPED? Never!
The teaser clips shown at the 2001 DS Festival and 30th Anniversary Vista screenings went over so well!
Essentially, we're kind of in a holding pattern. The studio doesn't have any interest at this time in restoring NODS- at least as far as the home video division is concerned.
The video division felt that there would be a strong chance of doing it if DS was in the spotlight again- ie: another series, feature film etc. Since the proposed Fox pilot was rejected, they're attitude hasn't changed. I was also hoping that having the restoration higlighted in the 'Sciography' show (they interviewed me doing a transfer of some footage to video and were going to show the hanging scene) would help as well. Since the 'Sciography' show (and the fan profile show) isn't going to air, that didn't work either. :'(
There is still the TCM division that I'm targeting. I've had fans emailing requests to TCM (www.tcm.turner.com) for them to show and restore the 129 min version in order to build up ground support. Fans should continue to send their requests in, even if they have before. Once I feel enough time has passed and the appropriate people are aware of the film and it's hotly-requested (I hope) status, we'll approach them. I'd say, in a couple of months. Since the other attempts with cable, foreign TV, rental film and video failed, I want to make sure that our pitch to TCM is as strong as it could possibly be. Having them actually know what the proposed restoration is (via the email requests) should certainly help.
As far as HODS is concerned, there is nothing for the studio to restore- the missing footage has yet to show up. Once it does, that's a different matter. Because HODS is a stronger seller, the restoration of footage to that title would probably interest them more than the NODS one. If the HODS footage is recovered, I could then pitch a restoration of BOTH titles to them. Since the costs would be spread out over both films, it would probably seem less of a gamble. It's one of the reasons I'm so passionate about finding this HODS footage- it could help the restorations of both films. :o
As far as actual restoration work is concerned, Jim Pierson and I are considering the value of re-recording the missing dialogue now. With that in hand, at least we'd be secure, knowing that the dialogue was preserved, in case anything should happen to the actors before restoration becomes possible.
Please be sure to check out the FAQ page on the website (www.nightofdarkshadows.com) for many updated questions and answers...
It may take awhile, but I'm confident it will happen eventually. If it's ever officially scrapped you'll know, because I'll post it on several sites, write an article and shut down the website....
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Made a bit of a discovery doing research today. :o
In a Japanese film reference source, HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS' Japanese release date (March 1971) with a documented running time of 101 minutes...I've seen another source with a 102 minute time, so I think that pretty much narrows down the proposed length of the longer version. It would appear that anywhere from 4 to 5-1/2 minutes of footage comprises the longer version. This would be enough for the David hanging, Stokes and Willie, Opening Carolyn's coffin scenes and any slightly longer additions of violence that might be there.
For decades, the Japanese received more explicit versions, so that would seem to at least pinpoint the source of this version. A Japanese fan swore that he has seen a longer edition in Japan. Looks like he was right!
Unfortunately, if there are any Japanese film archives, they are not part of the international archive federation, so trying to track them down will be a great pain in the keister...
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For another account of a proposed restoration project with similar difficulties check out this piece on Robert Harris' proposed restoration of IT'S A MAD MAD MAD MAD WORLD.
It's nice to know we're not alone! (I've talked to Harris about the DS films restorations. His tips basically confirmed that I've been looking in the right places and approaching the correct people.)
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/madworld/mad.html
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For what it's worth, I hope we will all get behind Darren and DCP, and support the efforts at restorations of both HODS and NODS.!! If you have any connections to film, TV, collectors, etc--please send them a plea to help in the search for missing footage from HODS and NODS--and let WB know how much we want to see restored versions of the films.
Brian
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Darrin,
I hate to sound like a wet blanket, but my sister works as Vice President of Operations for TCM. When TCM was owned by Turner Broadcasting, it is true they were very active in film preservation and restoration. However, since Turner was merged with AOL Time Warner, all such activities have stopped. All proposed projects as well as those in the works were stopped and abandoned almost immediately after Warner took control. When it was Turner, they were at the forefront in film preservation and restoration, but as soon as Warner came into the picture all that stopped and they became like AMC, where the company donates money to film restoration and then claims they are truely concerned with and involved in film restoration and preservation but really they just give money. The rest of the former committment that Turner had to these things are now gone. If Ted Turner was still in control and it was the old Turner Broadcasting, I would say go for it and that your requests would be listened to, but now Warner has a closed mind to such things.
When Warner took over not only did they abandon all film preservation projects but also halted release of a good portion of the movie library that Turner had. Part of that collection was the old RKO studio movies, which Turner had pulled from release, to remaster and rerelease under the TCM Video logo. This was to be done in stages, but when Warner took over, the project was scrapped and the previous releases stopped from production. Warner has very little interest in the films that were originally part of MGM's or RKO's film library, which the DS films are a part of. They just wanted to get ahold of part of their own film libary which had been split in half many years earlier. Therefore, alot of MGM movies were pulled from the market and others, some major classics, have not been rereleased, with no future plans to do so. This is because Warner says there is no market for older films, which is a crock. They believe that only new releases sell and that the money and the market is there, but the success of TCM and AMC prove otherwise. With regard to TCM, Warner went as far as to consider adding commericals to the station but that was protested and for now that idea has been abandoned.
If you have dealt with Warner video regarding NODS restoration then going to TCM for either of the DS movies is really a futile attempt because they are both controled by AOL Time Warner and both have the same policies and constriction, placed on them by their parent company, who seems to not understand the marketplace and how much people truely enjoy older films and want them saved, restored and preserved for generations to come.
As I said in the beginning of this message, I don't want to throw a wet blanket on the idea of restoring either of these films, but I felt that you should know this so that you would not waste your time and efforts trying to seek help from the same source under a different name...Warner.
Richard Holt
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Thanks for the info, Richard. I remember reading some of your insights on another forum.
Sadly, what you say is true about home video having no interest in releasing the classics. I know that in the case of RKO titles, the main point of contention is that the profits have to be split between Turner and RKO, and Turner/Warners would rather release something they own entirely. This of course puts titles like the Val Lewton classics and others in a bad position.
I know that TCM inspired restoration projects still happen- the last were Rick Schmidlin's restorations of ELVIS, THAT'S THE WAY IT IS and GREED. These were probably okayed before the merger, but everything I've been told is that the separate divisions maintain their own budgets and authorizations for their own projects. A friend put it best, describing each division as separate, but equal fiefdoms. That's how things like the GREED restoration will be given a big TV push for its premiere broadcast, but video marketing totally drops the ball by not releasing or pre-listing a video of it for a few years after- and no DVD at all.
These are grave things that you say, but like all things in Hollywood, could turn around quite quickly. A new DS series, a movie; any number of 'in-the-spotlight' projects could happen quite quickly and you can be quite sure video would be interested in capitalizing on the press from that. And if Warners were the ones to release the project, perhaps Dan would make it a clause in his contract or agreement.
In the case of HODS, the money required for that restoration- if the print could be found- would be negligible and I'm sure we could pay for it or raise enough to pay for it. Then, it's just a matter of letting video use that restored footage.
These are all longshots, of course, and require a bit of blind faith and hope. Sometimes, it seems very easy (and would probably a wise idea) to just throw in the towel and forget it, but at this point I've sank so much time, effort, and money into it, that I want to give it one last try before doing that.
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Well, this background information explains much of what's happened with AMC and TCM. (sigh).
I don't think you should give up hope, Darren.
All I can suggest is that we continue to express our opinions to the Behometh that is AOL/TimeWarner. Maybe it's like shouting into a hurricane, but hey, you have to try.
When AMC started showing schlock and commercials, I stopped watching. I also sent them a letter explaining why. Not that it's changed anything, but you never know.
Luciaphil
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Here are some ideas...
What about embracing the new technology of the internet and having people pay to download a webcast of it?
How much would it cost to acquire teh rights to NODS just out of curiosity? That is always a possibility, though it would require someone with a great deal of money. However, donations could possibly be made at festivals over a number of years. I have no idea how mcuh such a venture would cost, or if Dark Shadows fans would have the ability to raise that kind of money.
At the very least, I'll buy the rights to it when I am older and rich. But that will be a great while from now, I fear!
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Also, what about trying to get this going in a foreign market? Fans could then import it? If it's PAL, secam, mesesecam, or whatever format, fans can simply pay the $10 to convert it. And if a foreign television network were interested in it, then what about the possibility of fans just trading bootlegged copies of the broadcast?
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Hi 'Albert.' Thanks for the suggestions- I'll answer them the best I can.
1) Warners does NOT license their titles. PERIOD. NO EXCEPTIONS. DON'T ASK. DON'T CALL. DON'T TRY. (Their CAPS, not mine.) We tried anyway, being Dan the producer/director/co-writer etc. of the show wanted to license them. They won't do it not to us or Criterion or Anchor Bay or any one else.
2) There's no money in the internet download option, plus there would have to be a finished restored version to download. People promising their intention to download and pay wouldn't work- just ask Stephen King.
3) Have tried ALL TV markets within the studio, especially foreign and cable. Not enough interest or money in those divisions. Worst of all, when Sci-Fi was approached by the studio about buying the broadcast rights to the film (NODS) for a few year period, they said that they would pay the same amount whether it was restored or not, that it made no difference to them. (Gong!)
4) The only TV market not approached is TCM- that's the last holdout.
5) Foreign video divisions have also been approached. No go.
As a side note, doing a foreign edition would be just as problematic as restoring the film and would cost a significant amount than just the US restoration. This is because the only foreign audio tracks that were made were of the short version. We'd have to just as much work re-looping and re-editing the foreign voices as we would on the US version. The restoration itself is a $100,000 project. Each foreign edition would rack on $10,000 more per language or more.
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It seems to me that a restoration cost of $100,000, in the grand scheme of things "Hollywood," is a relatively low amount of money. Certainly, there is someone associated with NODS who can afford (i.e., could/would) cough up the $$ for this project.
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Well, it's certainly not me! ;)
Yes, in the Hollywood scheme of things, it's pennies, but most studios' film and cultural memory goes back 2 years. DS, what's that? Dan Curtis, who's that?
No, I'm not kidding.
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Darren,
Since I work at an Union Business Agent representing Equity actors at Walt Disney World, I can understand the "hollywood" system and its way of doing things. As I've said before, I wish I had the wealth to finance the project--but my salary doesn't allow for such "extravagances."
Also, like they say about actors in TV or Hollywood, "you're only as good as your last 'hit!'"
LOL.
Brian
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Always nice to hear from you, Bri.
The industry politics can be a bit sad, can't it?
As for myself, if I win the lottery, I know where $100K is going- heck it would probably be tax deductable if I set up the appropriate fund name beforehand...
We'll just have to wait and hope for studio politics to work itself out. The terrible recession we're in isn't helping matters either. Studios and PR agencies are dropping people like flies and shutting down whole departments. As with most business, it seems more like a matter in preparation for presumed business losses months or a year or so down the line.
Putting 'risky' money into this is a scary concept for corporations at this time.
In the meantime, I'll continue spreading the word, looking for HODS elements, and making preparations for an eventual go-ahead.
Also- it looks like I'll be doing another NODS presentation with clips and Q & A for the June Festival. Don't know the day or time yet, but I'm going to try for a full 45 mins this time.
Weathering the storm,
Darren
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Hi, Darren.
Thanks for the extra insight. I wish I could be at the DS convention in LA this year, but I've made a promise to myself to go to the the DS Con in NY in 2003--exactly 10 years since I attended my first and only convention. Hopefully, by then, you'll have made lots of progress with these projects, and I'll look forward to hearing you talk about your restoration work that "resulted in the final, director's version of NODS." ;)
In the meantime, if I get lucky with the lottery, I'll let you know.
Brian
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I'm taking those who wish on the journey this time. I thought it might be interesting for restoration fans to see how print investigations and leads develop, how they're followed up and what the results are.
I just found a lead on a 16mm HODS print- running time unknown. It's in the UK. Naturally hopes are high as this is the only print I've been able to find in the last 9 months. The last were at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences archive and at the UCLA archive but both were TV versions and didn't pan out.
A friend at MGM who I've been around and around with this mentioned a company in regards to an Australian rental inquiry that he wasn't sure I contacted. I hadn't, so I did. Long distance- at 2 in the AM. They, it turns out don't have any films they just secure licensing and lease agreements (and fees) for revival screenings etc.
When pressed, they kindly suggested another company and even gave an email to contact a particular person. I contacted him, and he came back with confirmation that a certain company does have a print in the UK.
I followed up, asking if they would be kind enough to check the reels and come back with a footage measurement so I could ascertain which version they have. Most catalogs and rental companies list a standard 97 min running time, having gotten that information from a studio reference or a film listing book. Very rarely do they actually check the print itself. If they come back with a measurement or are willing to do it is a 50-50 proposition. It takes about a half hour or so to do and smaller companies usually don't want to be bothered, especially if the print is in storage or off-site.
I'll post follow-ups as they develop.
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This is exciting news, Darren! Let's hope the firm is willing to check their print. It would be a tremendous find if it has the sequences you are trying to locate.
My big regret is that the Barnabas/Julia "walk" sequence is probably gone for good, since that was presumably trashed before any prints were struck from the master at MGM.
At least we have the stills. The reconstruction of this sequence on Michael Miozza's DS films website is a must for Barnabas/Julia fans.
Gothick
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Darren,
Thanks for sharing the latest in your efforts. I'm one of those people who enjoys reading about things like film restoration and reconstruction of "lost" music from Broadway shows and films. There's a book about the making of A STAR IS BORN and restoration in the 80s that I've read a couple of times in the past decade. Also, the restoration of the score to SHOW BOAT as it was recorded by John McGlinn some years ago interested me. So, in my opinion, no detail is too minor to include in your reporting. Thanks for sharing your work.
Brian
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It's unknown whether the Barnabas/Julia walk scene was included in longer prints, but is certainly one of the more important cut scenes. I think all affect the story and structure in significant ways. My list of scenes that are crucially important are:
Extended opening with hanging
Julia/Barnabas walk
Greenhouse
Opening Carolyn's coffin
Stokes and Willie
There are other strong scenes as well, but these, I feel, would significantly add to the film and are particularly curious by their absence. Multiple reports had claimed that the Carolyn's coffin and hanging were included in the 16mm prints but it's uncertain whether the others were.
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No updates about the UK print but in the meantime I've been looking towards Australia and (thanks to a forum of fellow collectors) have secured a list of Australian film rental companies which I'll be calling and contacting to see if they have or ever had 16mm prints in inventory.
There's 18 companies. A few have websites, some are studio centered and useless to contact. (Don't think 20th Century fox would have it for rent, nope.) But will check into the others.
Also discovered that a branch of the Chicago public library was auctioning off a 5000 title film collection. I made an inquiry and HODS is not amongst their holdings.
I'll keep these posts going for a month just to give an idea to those with an interest, what's usually happening behind the scenes. I tend just to post updates on the restoration website when I have something to report, like a find or discovery.
As for restoration book recommendations, Ron Haver's A STAR IS BORN book is a must (good choice, Brian), as well as Kevin Brownlow's NAPOLEON book, the pictorial LAWRENCE OF ARABIA book which has a good chapter with photos and for a terrific overview of the whole ball of wax, OUR MOVIE HERITAGE can not be beat. Filled with terrific demonstrative photos, intelligent, compulsively readable text, it will expand your technical knowledge without burdening you with jargon. An expensive book ($30-40) but worth every penny. NITRATE WON'T WAIT and KEEPERS OF THE FRAME are more focused on archive history but have tons of useful info as well...
Off to check some site...
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Odd things...
So I call this Australian Film rental company (long distance, on my own dime, as usual) and ask about the title and the receptionist says, 'Someone just called about that 5 mins ago!...Are you sure it wasn't someone from your company?' Odd, this is the first call I've made today...Hmmm...Is someone out there poking around as well? It wasn't Jim as he leaves me alone to follow my leads.
Strange...
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How odd that someone was calling that company about hoDS. Was Dark Shadows ever shown Down Under? Maybe somebody was looking for a print to show at some fantasy/horror fest? Were you around when those people wanted to screen a print of it at their drive in theatre, and they were unable to get hold of one? That was very sad.
This is totally OT, but I wonder whether you have ever run into anyone interested in restoring the 2 Vincent Price Dr Phibes films (AIP productions from the early 70s). The second one was slashed to ribbons similarly to NoDS--I read at the time that Vincent Price was disgusted because he had to re-loop some of his scenes as the existing dialogue made no sense because of the cuts!
The movies were slashed a SECOND time due to the fact that AIP failed to pay licensing fees (or whatever they're called) for certain pieces of music used in the soundtrack scores. So far as I know, the ONLY prints in current circulation of these movies are missing scenes that were still present in TV showings of the 1980s.
It's a sad situation. I can no longer enjoy watching these movies because every time I watch them I started ranting and raving about the *&@! cuts. The last time AMC ran Dr. Phibes rises again was particularly offensive--the underscore for the first sequence in the film was practically inaudible, and bore NO relationship to what was going on onscreen!
What is it about early 70s horror films? The only available print of Vault of Horror is similarly incomprehensible, though I have read that a complete print was released on Laserdisc in Japan.
Steve
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Hi Gothick.
HODS was released theatrically in Australia in 1970/1971 during its original release. According to the official press sheets it was shortened by a few minutes for censorship reasons. In the intervening years a few reports have come from Australia also mentioning screening revival prints of the longer print that I'm searching for.
I'm unaware of the drive-in print request, but would love to hear more about it...
Don't want to stray too far off-topic on this thread so I've started another one about Phibes and music rights...
.......Well, I started another thread and wrote this great piece about music rights and Phibes and it all went poof when I lost the connection, so here's the caveman rewrite.
1. Phibes 1- music rights problems
2. Phibes rises again- music problems cleared for DVD- 'Somewhere over the rainbow' is included on disc. Disregard packaging. Was unaware of cuts to film but it feels like scenes are missing. If it was director's choice, then restoration unlikely. MGm restoration people good. Will ask friend about Phibes.
3. Music rights problems are video only. Theatrical prints for revival screenings or campus rentals would have correct music tracks. For films like CONQUEROR WORM, PHIBES, it's essential...
4. Film music contracts did not include home video until the 80s, only clearances for theatrical and TV. For video studio needs to renegotiate music for video and pay $$$. If artist/label greedy (99% of time) or artist missing, big problem...
ugh!
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Hi Darren,
Many thanks for taking the time to comment upon my OT whinging about the Phibes films. I hadn't heard that the missing scenes/cues had been restored for the DVD release--this is exciting news! I wish reviewers would include this kind of info when they review the discs! Ah well... I could've sworn I checked the Video Watchdog reviews for the Phibes DVD, but not a clue about any restoration there.
I suspect that the footage slashed in the original cut (to bring the film down to the 90 minute running time dictated by AIP) has been lost. But Director Robert Fuest is still active & on the scene so far as I know, so he may still have a copy of the intact thing. Who knows.
Getting back to hoDS, I wonder whether "Japanese version" prints might not be around over in Japan that might have the lost footage? It might be worth tracing ...
Christopher Lee reminisces in his long interview on the new City of the Dead ("Horror Hotel") DVD about filming the Kharis tongue-slicing sequence from the front for "the Japanese version." He said that he has still never seen a print that contained this footage.
Steve
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My pleasure.
I'm not sure about Phibes 1's music track on dvd. I think that one still has some probs. Phibes 2 is the one I know has been corrected. It was a big deal on many web review sites, but it's been a while so I can't remember the magazine coverage.
I'm 90% sure the Japanese release is the one that has the footage and have made steps in investigating that for HODS. The language barrier is a huge problem. I sent a letter (both in English and in clunky Japanese) to the Tokyo Museum of Art which has an extensive film collection but have yet to receive any kind of response. The Japanese audio master held in the US was of the standard version. That's not too unusual, though. There are other elements from a Japanese that are not held in the US (like the Japanese title sequence, the dupe negative, the trailer material and the subtitle opticals) that must he held by an archive, lab or rental facility in Japan. Most Japanese releases of English language films are subtitled, not dubbed, so there certainly had to be a subtitle master.
The MGM distribution center is no longer operating over there but I would like to find some Japanese film rental companies that may have prints, but again the language barrier is a problem.
I have a friend who is looking into possible non-returned holdings in Australia and Japan. (He had someone start making calls before I was aware which is probably who called that Aussie company before me last week.)
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FYI, I've purchased a HODS and a NODS lobby poster (through eBay) from Australian sellers--both similar to our American posters, but also different enough to make them interesting. Each is about 13.25" x 30", on thin paper, and appear to be artists' renderings of portions of the American posters, i.e., the HODS poster features Carolyn's face as she is staked, and the NODS poster features Angelique and Quentin. (I also have two American posters--one from each film--which are my frame of reference.)
Not that this post has much to do with the questions, but I thought I'd share because it confirms the "down under" release of these films.
Brian
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The Australian daybill posters are interesting, aren't they Brian?
The paper is so thin (almost like onionskin) and delicate and the image was clearly drawn by hand. The NODS slogan for Australia 'Ghost on a love rampage' is a hoot as well.
There's this guy who pops up on ebay and sells these all the time. He must have boxes of them!
The Australian press sheets (basically a two sided pressbook) list the films footage and running times and HODS was about 5 mins shorter and NODS about 3 mins shorter. That, of course if the official 35mm release.
With 16mm repertory, the lengths are unknown...
Made a follow up call and email about the UK print length yesterday morning, but still no word.
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One thing I would love to find is the Japanese video release of the two films.
When you order the video from Amazon Japan the cover artwork is identical to the US one and it is not stated if its subtitled or dubbed so it would appear to be the company is just making the same US tapes available over there.
There must have been a release (probably in the 80's) on Japanese VHS which is now out of print. That tape could have been mastered from a longer print and it would be nice to know for sure. It never shows up on ebay (been checking for 6 years) so short of flying out there and looking in video stores and rental shops, finding it is a bit of a challenge.
Thankfully, I've been able to obtain copies (or examine) of the French, UK, and Spanish vids for HODS which were the standard cut...
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Hi Darren, Just a note to thank you again for alerting me to the restoration of Price's Over the Rainbow vocals on the Phibes Rises Again DVD. I wonder whether the scenes that were cut from the VHS release due to music rights issues were restored as well? I checked a couple of online DVD reviews but obviously none of the reviewers knew the films well enough to comment.
Good luck with your quest for the Japanese print of hoDS. I still feel doubtful whether the footage of the Barnabas/Julia walk scene will be recovered there, but perhaps the hanging David scene will be. I don't know that the Stokes/Willie scene was ever included in ANY print--ditto for the Barnabas/Julia one ... Obviously, though, you've researched this thoroughly!
I just lent VHS copies (taken from the LaserDisc, in my untutored opinion the best available versions) to a friend for viewing. He was quite complimentary about NoDS, believe it or not--in my opinion even in its current "trimmed" state it's head and shoulders above hoDS as a film and a theatrical artifact. There ARE characters, there ARE motives, which is more than one can say for hoDS. About the latter, my friend made a witty comment you might appreciate (or see as the unkindest "cut" of all???):
I have some old trees I'd like to clear off my property, and wonder where the editors of HODS got the *AXE* they edited the movie with! I guess that and a blindfold were all they needed. Dear, I've haven't seen editing that bad since Paul Morrissey made it an art form in the Warhol films. There are times when the soundtrack just DIES.
I did warn him that as it stands, the movie is something of a train wreck... It does remain one of my guilty pleasures, nonetheless!
Steve
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The NODS slogan for Australia 'Ghost on a love rampage' is a hoot as well.
You're right, Darren--and they used the same quote, sort of, for HODS: "The living dead on a frightening love rampage!" But the HODS poster uses a photo of Carolyn rather than the drawing.
I also have one of the American NODS posters on cardstock, about 40" x 60"--and I think the artwork is very beautiful. I'm guessing the original painting was a watercolor, from the looks of it (I really don't know much about art), but I'm still impressed with the quality that was put into the artwork on this poster. (It's the one with Angelique hanging from the tree limb, with some of Angie's various incarnations superimposed on her body.)
"Sensuous, terrifying. After 200 years Angelique, witch and adultress, returns from the grave!"
Brian
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My favorite NODS poster is the style-B poster that features a big decaying Angelique head superimposed over a Collinwood dripping blood. Garish to be sure, but I love it.
Despite that, I don't think NODS ever had a poster that adequately sold the film or represented its contents. I'd love to commission a new one.
Still no update info from the print in the UK.
A collector I know was kind enough to examine his Japanese memorabilia to see if he could find a running time notation, but alas tis not included in the material...
Also a fan with college connections has offered to contact the schools in his area to see if they have any HODS prints in their collection. A generous offer which I happily accepted. Fans do offer their help from time to time and as long as it doesn't cause them any expense, I usually accept.
(Librarian VAM has helped out with some US library archive database searches in the past, which was, naturally, appreciated.)
Have just begun inquiries into Japanese and Australian film rental holdings and am waiting to hear back.
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Breaking news as it develops!
A fan and website member contacted me as she has been having dealings with a collector selling DS memorabilia. Apparently a few months back he sold a print of HODS for big bucks. She's trying to find out from him if it was the longer version....
Will it be heartbreak or triumph?
only time will tell. Now you can be just as goose pimpled and anxious as me! ;)
Stay tuned...
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Breaking news as it develops!
A fan and website member contacted me as she has been having dealings with a collector selling DS memorabilia. Apparently a few months back he sold a print of HODS for big bucks. She's trying to find out from him if it was the longer version....
Will it be heartbreak or triumph?
only time will tell. Now you can be just as goose pimpled and anxious as me! ;)
Stay tuned...
I cross my fingers for you and for us, Darren . ..
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I cross my fingers for you and for us, Darren . ..
Me too Darren Good luck
jennifer
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Still no word back whether that print was the longer version but I'm told the collector is looking through his files to see if there's any notation of it or who the buyer was.
Still waiting on word about the UK prints (turns out there are two) but I followed up with a phone call and should probably know next week some time.
Also I finally made touch with a private fan I've been trying to contact- lots of terrific first hand info on the contents of the longer HODS print. Confirmed the David hanging and the splattery gory staking of Carolyn which other sources had mentioned. Also added some information about other (previously unknown) violence extensions as well../While they don't have a print they were very helpful with information and wish to remain anonymous.
Requests for information on Japanese and Australian rental prints have been bounced around a few departments but there should be some activity next week...
Lots of things hanging, but I've got a good feeling about things this time.
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Hi folks.
No word yet from the collector. It's a delicate situation; I'm dealing with a person who knows the collector and can't communicate directly...
The UK prints are being checked and I should know next week.
Still waiting for the Australia, Japan information.
Til then!
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Hey folks, I kid you not. The japanese translation of House of Dark Shadows is "Lip of Blood" or Chi no Kuchibiru. I can only imagine they got this name because the poster for the movie was a collage of "Old Barnabas" heads with bloody lips.
And Darren, I e-mailed you but I'm going to post it here in case you don't get it. I found two rental copies of the Japanese version of HODS. E-mail me if you want more info.
~Arashi
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Sad news, folks.
Received a report back from the UK film rental company that was examining the 2 HODS prints they had in inventory.
Unfortunately, they do NOT contain any deleted scenes and are just prints of the standard 97 min release version. Thanks, of course to the company and people who spent the time to check.
Also received word in regards from the studio in regards to rental prints in Japan and Australia. After checking with their distributors in those territories, the reponse came back that there are no prints (16mm or 35mm) held or available in those territories.
The Japanese and Australian leads were the 'most likely' territories for the long prints. That Japanese language (or subtitled) rental prints no longer exist in that territory is a sorry state of affairs.
Still no word on the collector's print that was sold awhile back (see posts above). It doesn't look like further information about the buyer is going to turn up, at this point. Especially since it was at a collectables show and probably sold for cash, right off the table.
(Thanks Arashi for the Japanese video tip- it's my most wanted HODS research item. Hopefully i'll be able to find one when I've got $200 to invest in it...If anyone else finds an auction for a Foreign video release of either of the films, please let me know.)
DG
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In order to provide some kind of closure, I'm going to cease the ongoing moment-to-moment updates in regard to the HODS search.
I hope you enjoyed a look into a month of the ups and downs of the work that has gone into trying to recover this missing footage. As a sample, it's a good indication of what a typical month is like.
I'll be continuing the search, of course, but won't discuss any other leads unless a discovery is made.
Please keep the thread open; I think there's a wealth of information that's worth having available. I'll respond to additional comments, as well.
Oh, I'm also upping the HODS print reward from $1000 to $2,000 dollars. That's the ceiling on this, as far as I'm concerned.
cheers,
Darren
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Darren,
I talked to my sister, for the first time since I posted way back a month or so ago, over last weekend. We got to talking about the DS films and I told her the problems that were being had about trying to restore NODS and find the longer version of HODS. I said something about you approaching Warner Home Video division and they weren't interested. I mentioned something about licensing the film rights from Warner, and she that the Video division does not have the right to refuse such a request, though they do it all the time and make it sound final. She said she knew that people are being told that Warner doesn't license, but she said they do and she knows that for certain. She said for some reason the people in the Home Video Division are not smart and cost the company money which if higher ups knew, they would not be happy.
I know you mentioned talking to Warner's Video Division about NODS. It might pay to going higher up. If something was to released on home video, it would have to be done through Warner's Home Video Division, but the final word about what is or is not released, who can get access and rights to license the film is not suppose to be the Home Video Division's decision. Just though you might want to know this.
Richard Holt
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Fascinating.
I think one of the problems is that no department wants to cause strife with Warner Home Video head Warren Lieberfarb. He's considered the 'father of DVD' and is given much control and free reign of the department.
Execs don't want to say he's losing the studio money because he'll just say he's protecting the studios assets and public image.
I think he's way too powerful. All departments- TV, archive, intl TV and video all repeat the no licensing policy. It's possible it came down from higher levels several years ago.
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Just a thought: I wonder if Anchor Bay would be interested in pursuing restoration and release of HODS and NODS--they've released other DC movies, and I believe have restored other non-DC flicks.
Brian
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They are. I worked for them, briefly and discussed the matter with one of their disc producers.
His response was that they'd love to do it, but it was impossible to license titles from Warners as they'd tried many times in the past.
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Well Darren, my sister said she knew of several times that film rights had been licensed out by Warner for projects. However, she also said that she had heard the same policy that you mentioned repeated, but it always seems to come from the Home Video Division. It apparently is their standard answer when approached on the issue, but she said there is apparently no such policy and that she knew, first hand, of people getting licensing agreement made with Warner on material they owned. She said they want all the money they can get, but apparently certain people in the Home Video Division didn't get that memo. Since it can be done, despite what some people say in Home Video, there is obviously a channel that has to be used to get such a thing done, but it is not one widely known, or is one that for reason's known only to the Home Video Division, they try to keep people from. To me, it sounds like your original stradegy of trying different avenues through Warner is the way to go and eventually it might lead to getting the okay.
Richard Holt
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Although I have nothing new to contribute to this discussion, I must say I find all of this fascinating. I hope you will all continue to share information here in this public forum. It makes for sad but instructive reading.
Darren, have you tried getting any Catholic friends of yours to say a prayer to St. Anthony of Padua for the hoDS footage? I've heard that if it is anywhere, St. Anthony will find it!
Best wishes,
Steve
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Darren, have you tried getting any Catholic friends of yours to say a prayer to St. Anthony of Padua for the hoDS footage? I've heard that if it is anywhere, St. Anthony will find it!
you know Steve i never believed that (Not being a religious person)but after looking for a diamond for a week finally gave in to my mother's pleas to pray to him!
i found it an hour later Pretty spooky to me1
good luck darren anyway1
jennifer
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I've read about this on House of Dark Shadows website a long while ago. I do hope that someone will locate the deleted scenes and maybe have an uncut HODS on DVD! Thatb would be sweet... ;D
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Darren, have you tried getting any Catholic friends of yours to say a prayer to St. Anthony of Padua for the hoDS footage? I've heard that if it is anywhere, St. Anthony will find it!
And while you're at it, Darren, include St. Jude, the patron saint of lost causes in those prayers. My Mom went to her grave thanking St. Jude for bringing my brother home from Vietnam.
Raineypark
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Thanks to some new reports, here's the latest listing of scenes exclusive to the lost 102 min cut of HODS.
MAGGIE EXPLORES HOUSE/DAVID HANGING SCENE
Barnabas' second attack on Carolyn is more savage, with another shot or two of her violent struggles.
ROGER, STOKES OPEN CAROLYN'S COFFIN AND FIND IT EMPTY. LIZ DISCOVERS THEM AND HITS THE ROOF.
Another stake hit in the Carolyn staking scene, with some of the blood hitting the lens.
More graphic strangling of Julia, with more of Barnabas throttling her (as can be seen in a production still).
Lingering shot of old Barnabas shlurping blood at Maggie's neck before pulling away and turning young.
WILLIE TELLS ALL TO STOKES
Adds both character, story AND violent nastiness. Did this version survive being mulched? Only time will tell...
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Hey, Darren Gross-
I have a friend in Japan and she may be able to help me track down the Japanese version of HODS.
I'll see what I can do! :D
-DrJulia
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Great!
Let me know if you find out anything!
Darren
P.S. Did you get my instant message? I sent it way back when you first posted...
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P.S. Did you get my instant message? I sent it way back when you first posted...
Sorry...I did get your i/m. Haven't found anything out yet. I'll post when I do.
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Hi folks.
A little bit of info has come to light. I just received one of the original Japanese movie program booklets for HODS. The booklet lists the following film info, which I translated: "1970: YEAR OF PRODUCTION, RUNNING TIME: 1 hr 41 mins."
Seeing that in print, in actual studio publicity material for the Japanese release confirms previously received information that the longer cut I've been searching for runs between 101 and 102 mins.
The length of the film as copyrighted by the Library of Congress in 1970 is 102 mins, so the film most likely runs 101 mins and several seconds. Different publications, reviews, and countries either round the seconds up or down. That explains the one minute discrepancy here and the listings in other reviews of 96 mins instead of 97. (The film runs 96.50).
I should be receiving a copy of the Japanese VHS release within the next few weeks, but it's both subtitled and packaged in similar style to the 1983 UK PAL release, so it's doubtful the tape includes any additional footage. I'll post when I know.
According to the booklet, the film was released by TOHO/MGM in Japan, so I'll have to inquire with TOHO ('Eastern Treasures') them whether they have any prints left or not. Japanese studios are notoriously difficult and uncommunicative when it comes to providing information on film elements or the elements themselves. Every US studio, (espec. MGM and Criterion recently) has major problems in this regard and are rarely given access to the best elements or even told that they are available....
I wasn't even able to get the Japanese Modern art museum to respond to my inquiry...
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Hi folks.
I've received and evaluated the Japanese video release of HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS. Sadly, it's of the 97 min version, featuring video-generated subtitles.
There's a full report and cover image at the website http://www.nightofdarkshadows.com
D
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There's a full report and cover image at the website
Hmmm - why does that cover remind me more of Night of the Living Dead than HODS? :D
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Since I've gotten nowhere in regards to the longer Japanese HODS print, I'm considering making a trip to Japan to talk to some collectors and archivists and to track down some leads. A friend has some film collector acquaintances over there and two contacts with Toho who I should be able to get meetings with.
This all comes out of my own pocket, so if all goes well, I might be able to go around March or April, hopefully in time for the cherry blossom festivals.
We'll have to see how things develop.
D
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1. I wish I could watch this! (I think it airs on TCM this December. It's either this one or 'Night of Dark Shadows')
2.I wish I could watch the long version when I do end up seein it.
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It's been awhile.
Looks like the Japan trip will have to wait until the fall 2003 or 2004.
On the positive front the head of Warner Home Video, Warren Lieberfarb (the man responsible for WHVs narrow-minded marketing eye and one of DVDs biggest credit hogs) resigned a few months ago. Whether this will lead to more positive action from that department remains to be seen. His replacement is Jim Cardwell who we've spoken to about the project before. Hopefully this will be step in the right direction.
D
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Thanks for the update, Darren. I've sworn off viewing my VHS copies of both HODS and NODS so that I can be truly surprised at the beautiful picture and sound of the DVD releases WHEN (not if) they are released. Keep up the good work.
Brian
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I write to you today because I have seen diminishment of the fire and spirit among DS fans concerning the hope and prospect of fully restoring Night and House of Dark Shadows to their original versions as approved by Dan Curtis. We must not give up or give in! If Godzilla's parent company is uncooperative, so what? If the higher-ups at Warner Brothers are buttheads, so what? If we never find another scrap of exposed negative relating to DS films, SO WHAT??????? We cannot let the dream die! DS has given all of us hours, days, years, decades of entertainment and we must reciprocate by keeping the fire going!! Do not ask what Dark Shadows can do for you, ask what you can do for Dark Shadows! We have nothing to fear but fear itself! WE HAVE NOT YET BEGUN TO FIGHT!!!!! So come on, DS fans, keep this thread going, keep on posting and sharing your thoughts, and keep the fire going!!
Exuberantly,
DrJulia*
*a guy, btw
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Bravo, DrJulia!! My thoughts exactly! Now come on the rest of you--give Darren and DCP some online support. Let's show the bean-counters that we're a force with which to be reckoned!!!
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Darrin, I've been reading all through these posts and find it so interesting and facinating to read. You're doing such a swell job and I wish I could be of more help to you in finding the lost episodes.
I wish you the best of luck with your search and whatever you do, don't give up!! Somethings bound to come along sometime.
Deb
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Thanks for the kind words, Debra.
Much appreciated.
D