DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '05 I => Topic started by: Nelson Collins on January 05, 2005, 02:40:12 AM
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I seem to recall reading here that [spoiler]Chris/Tom/Amy Jennings are related to the Collines through Quentin.[/spoiler] But I also recall someone mentioning that they are also realated to Joe Haskell. Is this ever spelled out? Is Joe related to the Collinses as well, or [spoiler]just related to Chris by marriage?[/spoiler]
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i don't believe Joe is a Collins i believe he's related to Chris and Amy by marriage.
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Joe Haskell isn't a Collins but he is a cousin to Tom, Chris and Amy Jennings. Hope that clears things up for you. :)
edited by Midnite
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I agree with DSFan008. He was only a cousin to Tom, Chris and Amy.
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Yes indeed, Joe was the cousin of Tom,Chris and Amy... I believe on their father's side since [spoiler]their Grandmother was lanore who was a Collins.[/spoiler] [9366]
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As I understand it from viewing the series a few times, and seeing the family tree in the DS Almanac (chuckle) ;) as well as a few websites...
[spoiler]Quentin had two kids, a boy and a girl... Now of course the boy died, via the curse placed on Quentin. The girl, Lenore, lived. Lenore later married and must have had at least two daughters: one married a Jennings, the other a Haskell. So - Tom/Chris/Amy were cousins to Joe. However, that also means that for Tom, Chris, Amy *and* Joe...Lenore was their Grandmother, and Quentin was therefore their Great-Grandfather (even though they probably wouldn't have known that, since Lenore wasn't brought up a Collins - but she still had the same genes to pass on the curse and whatnot, of course :D) They all have traces of Collins blood, but not directly.[/spoiler]
Whew...hope I figured that out right. LOL [emblgh]
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/rosebud22/Werewolf_by_Zikes.gif)
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There's nothing to say how Joe is related, just that he's a cousin. He could be descended from Lenore's spouse. He could be descended from the spouse of one of her children. Or, he could be related to the Jennings' other parent, the one who isn't Lenore's grandchild and have nothing to do with her family at all.
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Good point. My apologies... late night. [sick2] [sleep]
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Whew...hope I figured that out right. LOL [emblgh]
Well, you did - according to both the 30th Anniversary Almanac and the more recent Millenium Edition.
The family tree shows clearly that...
[spoiler]Quentin is great grandfather to both the Jennings AND Joe Haskell because Lenore is their grandmother. Interestingly, the 30th Anniversary book shows Joe's name in the family tree and the other book does not - just that the other daughter of Lenore married a Haskell.[/spoiler]
Just one question....don't know if this has ever been discussed:
[spoiler]Why wasn't Joe also a victim of the werewolf curse??[/spoiler]
[hdscrt]
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Just one question....don't know if this has ever been discussed:
[spoiler]Why wasn't Joe also a victim of the werewolf curse??[/spoiler]
[hdscrt]
That was my next question. And for that matter [spoiler]why were Amy and Tom not affected? Especially Tom since he and Chris were twins?[/spoiler]
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We forget this was a soap--familial ties would've changed or become clearer or more muddled had it stayed on .. in my warped imagination and in a JuliaList story i scribed. .i wrote that Lenore was still alive--albeit old--she was born in 1897 and in 1972=-age 75--she was still alive and reunited with Amy and Chris and it is also revealed she was Julia's long lost bad bad mother. .haha !
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Those family trees would appear to incorporate quite a bit of fannish speculation. I myself have speculated that Joe was related to the Collins', though distantly enough so that I don't squick at the thought of him dating Carolyn. I think actually that in the Celtic lands there were traditions of first cousins marrying so the same goes for Chris and Carolyn... I've always thought that the Collins had their background in a Scots-Irish family. Since they were already here in the US in the 17th century, they were obviously amongst the early waves of settlers. But I digress...
On the show, in canon, it only says that Joe was a "cousin" to Chris, Tom and Amy. Because of his closeness to Chris, and his protectiveness to the child, I always thought that cousin here means a close relationship rather than a distant one. English kin terms are so darned imprecise ...
G.
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I've always assumed that we, the fans, have given much more thought and consideration to this familial relationship than the writers ever did. In soap operas everyone is related (usually unknowingly) to everyone else.
Being cousins is the least of it. I'll bet money that there's a character out there in Soap Opera Land who's married to her own Step-Grandpa-once-removed...on her mother's side. ::)
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And for that matter [spoiler]why were Amy and Tom not affected? Especially Tom since he and Chris were twins?[/spoiler]
[nono] As Midnite has conclusively proven [spoiler]Tom and Chris were not twins[/spoiler] That is a misconception that has been aided and abetted by the all too frequently inaccurate PomPress books. ::)
In ep #564...
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Re: Tom and Chris - Are their any cast or writers who have gone on record as to what was intended?
MB - Thanks for the link to the other thread! Interesting, but as I recall [spoiler]headstones are not the most reliable for dating the births and deaths of DS characters ;) ;D[/spoiler]
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Re: Tom and Chris - Are their any cast or writers who have gone on record as to what was intended?
Nope. But nowhere on the show is the often assumed relationship ever stated or even hinted. To the contrary, the writing seems to go out of its way NOT to imply it.
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as we have had this discussion before i think we found there is no mention [spoiler]of whether tom or chris were twins just brothers i have searched through my tapes and where i thought chris once said he was the older brother and could not find it so who knows but i agree MB the books Ds alamacs do say they are twins even though they are just guessing[/spoiler]also i always believed that joe wasn't a collins but a cousin from the jennings side. [spoiler]Lenore's daughter or grandaughter married a jennings who had the non twins and amy[/spoiler]but this is just IMHO because i don't believe this was ever revealed on the show either. the family tree was also i believe just made up by fans and not the writers
jennifer
searching through the tapes of the jennings boys was fun though!
double eye candy ;D
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I think jen that you are right.
Lenore could have had a daughter who married a guy named Jennings. Jennings must have had a sister who married a guy named Haskell. So as you can see, Joe and Chris can be cousins without the collins relation.
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As Midnite discovered from the tombstone, Chris and Tom are not twins. However, for the sake of argument, let's assume that they ARE twins. Tom still doesn't have to suffer from the curse. The curse affects the first-born son. Obviously, even if they are twins, ONE of them has to come out first! If Chris was born a few minutes before Tom, the magic would affect him and not his brother.
PennyDreadful
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Can you imagine what a nightmare probate must be in that family.
Gerard
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As Midnite discovered from the tombstone, Chris and Tom are not twins. However, for the sake of argument, let's assume that they ARE twins. Tom still doesn't have to suffer from the curse. The curse affects the first-born son. Obviously, even if they are twins, ONE of them has to come out first! If Chris was born a few minutes before Tom, the magic would affect him and not his brother.
Well, as I point out in my comment above, tombstones are probably not the most accurate way of determining the birth or death of any DS character. :) But consider this (and this is a big retcon), perhaps all the journeys back and forward (and even sideways) in time that we have seen (and even future trips we never saw), is responsible for all the altered backstories and wrong years quoted or seen. ;D Such a trip might be responsible for either a) a future attempt to change the timeline to prevent the curse from ever being visited on Chris, a knock on effect of which was somehow preventing tom and Chris to be born as twins, or b) (and I favor Occam's razor for this explanation) the tombstone maker was given the wrong year or simply made a mistake.
However, it's probably all moot, as MB says they it was never mentioned on the show that they were twins and there has been no public comment by either cast members or writers and also sadly Don Briscoe is no longer with us. :(
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As Midnite discovered from the tombstone, Chris and Tom are not twins. However, for the sake of argument, let's assume that they ARE twins. Tom still doesn't have to suffer from the curse. The curse affects the first-born son. Obviously, even if they are twins, ONE of them has to come out first! If Chris was born a few minutes before Tom, the magic would affect him and not his brother.
Well, as I point out in my comment above, tombstones are probably not the most accurate way of determining the birth or death of any DS character. :) But consider this (and this is a big retcon), perhaps all the journeys back and forward (and even sideways) in time that we have seen (and even future trips we never saw), is responsible for all the altered backstories and wrong years quoted or seen. ;D Such a trip might be responsible for either a) a future attempt to change the timeline to prevent the curse from ever being visited on Chris, a knock on effect of which was somehow preventing tom and Chris to be born as twins, or b) (and I favor Occam's razor for this explanation) the tombstone maker was given the wrong year or simply made a mistake.
However, it's probably all moot, as MB says they it was never mentioned on the show that they were twins and there has been no public comment by either cast members or writers and also sadly Don Briscoe is no longer with us. :(
what tombstones?
also i think jon frid pointed out one time the actors are probaly the last ones to
ask about relationships between charactors. they were playing the roles but the
fans are the ones who remember it all! LOL
jennifer
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As Midnite discovered from the tombstone, Chris and Tom are not twins. However, for the sake of argument, let's assume that they ARE twins. Tom still doesn't have to suffer from the curse. The curse affects the first-born son. Obviously, even if they are twins, ONE of them has to come out first! If Chris was born a few minutes before Tom, the magic would affect him and not his brother.
That's what I was thinking. The name Thomas does mean twin.
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The name Thomas does mean twin.
Naming the character Tom with twins in mind presupposes that they planned ahead to introduce Tom's look-alike brother Chris somewhere down the line - but that's not actually the case. It was the fan response to Don Briscoe that caused the DS PTB to bring him back in another role. ;)