DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '04 II => Topic started by: veryvenn on October 30, 2004, 12:34:33 AM
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I've always been puzzled by JF forgetting his lines so often. Robert Rodak made a comment, I don't remember his exact words. something like "Frid could forget his own name while he was giving it."
I'm an admirer of JF, but he was after all a Shakesperian actor. How could he remember all that and forget something so much simpler?
Could it be that he just did not like the part too much and had a mental block? Theories anybody?
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I figure that Frid and the other cast members had too little time and too few rehearsals to help them learn their lines. Also, the directors had a habit of cutting or changing dialogue to fit time constraints right up to the last minute. I'm sure this created a stressful environment. It's amazing that the cast was able to give any memorable, convincing performances under these conditions.
ProfStokes
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I seem to recall John Karlen making that same point.....that the amount of time between getting the script and shooting the scene was never sufficient to learn the lines properly. And that they were constantly being re-written right up to the last possible moment. Obviously, that lack of time was more of a problem for some than for others.
Mr. Frid's forte was Shakespeare......which, I'm sure, was rarely subjected to re-writes..... ;)
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considering the limitations that they worked within...constant re-writes,little rehearsal time and no re-shoots it's remarkable that they put anything remotely watchable on.but the actors did more than just that with what was handed to them...they created a little bit of "magic" that we're still enjoying today.
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The remarkable thing for me in watching Frid especially is yes he did forget his lines. Sometimes, rather badly. However, he never lost his conviction of Barnabas. He did not break character while trying to remember what to say.
In fact, the fear on his face added to the spooky aspect of the show.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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When I watched the show during its original run, as a kid, I didn't have the thespian maturity to note when lines were flubbed and when other bloopers happened, unless it was something really big (like when Jonathan Frid walked across the set during the running of the closing credits). The only time I could ever remember him blowing a line was when he gave the wrong year in a scene. Then, years and decades later, while watching it in re-runs I caught all the flubs, bloops and everything else, wondering how I didn't see that as a wee-widdo-one.
Gerard
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I remember discussing the show with someone, and he remarked that when he watched the show as a kid, and JF looked at the Teleprompter, he thought that "Barnabas" could see him and was looking directly at him.
JF gets a lot of flack for his problems with his lines, but I find that those moments add considerably to the "flying by their pants" charm of DS.
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JF gets a lot of flack for his problems with his lines, but I find that those moments add considerably to the "flying by their pants" charm of DS.
I agree... that's probably one reason why the I love the show so much. For some reason those...imperfections make it that much more real/endearing to me. And It made those improbable wacky situations that much more believable, IMO. ;D
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i always felt that maybe he thought some of the lines were so absurb
that it hard not to flub them LOL!
jennifer
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I think he was at a bit of a disadvantage in that his character wouldn't be using slang, he always had to speak with conviction with no stuttering, etc.
In one of the DVD interviews, Sam Hall said that some of Barn's early dialogue was so Byron-esque as to be silly. So perhaps absurdity had something to do with it.
Flubbed lines aside (and under the circumstances, they are entirely forgivable) he certainly gave Barnabas all that humanity and charm with seemingly little effort.
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I think he was at a bit of a disadvantage in that his character wouldn't be using slang, he always had to speak with conviction with no stuttering, etc.
In one of the DVD interviews, Sam Hall said that some of Barn's early dialogue was so Byron-esque as to be silly. So perhaps absurdity had something to do with it.
Flubbed lines aside (and under the circumstances, they are entirely forgivable) he certainly gave Barnabas all that humanity and charm with seemingly little effort.
i just laughing at the thought of Barnabas and slang (of 1968) "groovy, far out, the colors man" come to mind LOL
agree with you totally!
jennifer
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Jonathan Frid himself has said he is a slow study. He tended to have a lot more lines than the others because Barnabas was the lead of the show. When Selby came on, it helped alleviate the pressure because there was another male lead to take over and give JF a bit of a break, but the episodes in which he appeared still tended to be very dialogue heavy.
Despite these innate difficulties, there were several scenes on DS where I thought he was just brilliant. I think his secret was as Jean-Claude has said, his belief in who and what he was playing. He projected a tremendous integrity as Barnabas, which probably had a lot to do with the unusual attractiveness of a middle-aged courtly gentleman to America's teen-agers during the "youthquake" of the Sixties. Frid's integrity goes a long way towards making Barn palatable to me now, since so much of what the character actually does is, to be tactful, rather unsavory.
G.
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It may have had something to do with the fact that everytime he seen the camera, he realized that 10 MILLION FOLKS was watching his every move, which caused further meltdown...Being a Vampire was not the only reason he looked pale and nervous. :o
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And sometimes when Jonathan Frid delivered his lines flawlessly, it was an incredible bit of acting. I particularly remember the classic scene where he returns to the Old House after being released by Willie and sorrowfully addresses the essence of Josette in the portrait.
Gerard
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And sometimes when Jonathan Frid delivered his lines flawlessly, it was an incredible bit of acting. I particularly remember the classic scene where he returns to the Old House after being released by Willie and sorrowfully addresses the essence of Josette in the portrait.
I think that might be my favorite JF moment. Really shows Barnabas' insecurity and vulnerability, especially those final words, "whatever that may turn out to be." (Not sure if that's the exact quote.)
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I think he was at a bit of a disadvantage in that his character wouldn't be using slang, he always had to speak with conviction with no stuttering, etc.
In one of the DVD interviews, Sam Hall said that some of Barn's early dialogue was so Byron-esque as to be silly. So perhaps absurdity had something to do with it.
Flubbed lines aside (and under the circumstances, they are entirely forgivable) he certainly gave Barnabas all that humanity and charm with seemingly little effort.
i just laughing at the thought of Barnabas and slang (of 1968) "groovy, far out, the colors man" come to mind LOL
agree with you totally!
jennifer
<LOL> There's an idea: Willie could have taught Barnabas how to be "mod" -- a hip, swingin' cat from London, decked out in the latest Carnaby Street fashions.
On that note, it is interesting to think about how "timeless" DS is. DC and Company managed to keep out any sort of then-contemporary references. Aside from hair, clothing, and make-up, there is really nothing about the series that links it to the 1960s or early 1970s. Considering the show's youth appeal, it's surprising that there weren't attempts made to cater to that audience. (You know how networks like to tamper with success...)
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I don't know if Mr. Frid ever suffered from stage fright, but that can make an actor forget his lines.
I've read that memorization has never been his strength as an actor, whether for the stage or television. He could have been very successful in movies, or in television today, despite such a liability, given all the takes and re-takes that are typically needed for every scene.
I remember being a little surprised at a comment KLS made at the festival in Anaheim a couple of years ago. She was asked a question about Mr. Frid and his reputation for forgetting his lines. KLS commented that as a young person during the production of DS, memorization of lines presented no problem, and she added in reference to those who had difficulties with this that they should "just memorize them." I can appreciate the exasperation that some actors might have with those who have a problem memorizing lines, but I didn't think she was very understanding of the problem.
I agree with VictoriaWinters when she comments that even when he forgot his lines, Frid never broke character. I would agree with that. I am usually so riveted by his performance that I tend not to notice the majority of his flubs until they're pointed out to me.
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I've been watching an awful lot of DS lately and I've noticed that more often than not, JF's flubbed or mixed up or forgotten lines almost always seem to take place during "same old, same old" dialogue, discussions of the crisis of the day, etc. After awhile that sort of stuff gets harder and harder to memorize IMHO. Where he really does well and shines are in poignant, deeply emotional or just plain interesting/unusual scenes - something he can really
'sink his teeth into'. <<--- (sorry...sorry...that's REALLY bad - I know) ::)
The comment Vlad made about KLS. Ya know, it seems like in almost every appearance I've seen of her - either in person or on tape, she always says something about his "terrible time remembering lines" and quite frankly I'm tired of hearing about it from her. :P
"Just memorize them" ??? Yeah, okay. Easy for her to say. She obviously didn't have much trouble with that. (Both her and Nancy Barrett seemed consistently flawless in that area)
But is seems to me that memorizing lines, and quickly, is a natural ability and either you have it or you don't. Has anyone on here ever done any acting? (Or attempted to? - LOL)
Once back in high school I did this summer workshop theater thing and got the lead in a play. (Sorry, Wrong Number) It was really a dumb choice for a play on the instructor's part 'cause the lead had about 98% of all the dialogue. But anyway, it was a nightmare. After a few pages I was dead. It was just impossible. I had to have the script hidden inside this magazine in front of me -- absolutely could NOT memorize all that stuff in a million years. (Thus ended my little exploration into acting) LOL
-CLC
VP & General Manager
MagazineTeleprompter Props of America
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I remember being a little surprised at a comment KLS made at the festival in Anaheim a couple of years ago. She was asked a question about Mr. Frid and his reputation for forgetting his lines. KLS commented that as a young person during the production of DS, memorization of lines presented no problem, and she added in reference to those who had difficulties with this that they should "just memorize them." I can appreciate the exasperation that some actors might have with those who have a problem memorizing lines, but I didn't think she was very understanding of the problem.
I imagine it can be a little annoying for the technically perfect performer to not get as much attention as the performer who is technically imperfect but manages to capture the audience's imagination and ignite their passion on a far greater scale. It smacks of sour grapes when certain actors comment on it especially when they attend the festivals and the technically imperfect actors do not and are constantly asked for.;)
Nancy
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Who among us would find it amusing to constantly have to be ready to cover for a co-worker's mistakes?
Especially in the circumstances of live videotaping where every mistake could cost a great deal of money?
I have no idea how often it really happened.... but if it happened often enough for Frid to have a reputation for it, it was probably often enough to entitle his co-workers to be irritated by it.
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I know I would be irritated beyond belief having to constantly cover up for someone else's mistakes.
But then I would not turn around and capitalize off that same person's success while still complaining about that individual. That strikes me as being rather hypocritical. I have yet to DS brought out outside any DS festival or fan event say, when DS is brought up - "Hey, how about that Kathryn Leigh Scott! Remember her?!" Not once.
Nancy
Who among us would find it amusing to constantly have to be ready to cover for a co-worker's mistakes?
Especially in the circumstances of live videotaping where every mistake could cost a great deal of money?
I have no idea how often it really happened.... but if it happened often enough for Frid to have a reputation for it, it was probably often enough to entitle his co-workers to be irritated by it.
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Lara has at times complained about JF going up on his lines but she has also said at other times that she thought it also made his performance more riveting and a lot of times it added to a scene she was in with him, so at least she appreciated his talent and said she enjoyed working with him.
What frosted me was in listening to the Conversation with Grayson CD she thought Jonathan was "dumb" because he flubbed the lines and that he was not a very good actor...interesting observation coming from an actress who constantly gave over the top performances on the show to the point where there have been so many humerous takeoffs of her peformance as Julia in skits and in the videos the guy who impersonates Julia does....
To me, Jonathan overacted at a minimum on the show ( I can think of one scene where he did, when he got bitten by the bat in Leviathan), but for the most part as many here have said he stayed in character and more often than not gave a very realistic, natural performance where he sometimes was able to even recover from a flub...I think you have to go with the overall acting performance rather than pick at specifics--a reason I have never considered til now is maybe one reason a lot of us could never see Julia with Barnabas is that she was almost campy at times, whereas with Barnabas and Angelique you could see the romantic/erotic undertones in many of those fights they had...and the scenes flowed more naturally..
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One of the things I admire personally about Jonathan Frid is that I know he did not work four years with a group of people - his colleagues - without having any criticisms or complaints about any cast member or production member. But you haven't heard him criticize them made in public on the stage at the festivals or anywhere else because he doesn't do that. It's called class.
Nancy
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Well, I was born shortly after the whole show was cancelled. I watch DS on DVD and Frid's Barnabas is the reason I pay $40 odd for those sets. I love Grayson Hall's performance, but Frid is why I buy. I don't think I'd be so into this stuff if he was "dumb". Granted, I partly like him cause he was so darn hot -- but it wasn't just that. He was no better looking than Jerry Lacey or Joel Crothers -- just sexier (and that was largely via his performance!!)
I read some recent transcripts, though, and it seems that John Karlen is someone who is very respectful and admiring towards Frid. He is one who has noted that Frid had loads of dialogue, etc. Karlen, like Frid, made his character someone you genuinely cared about. Willie is compelling and sympathetic...much like Barnabas. Makes me wonder if he understood better where Frid was coming from acting wise.
As for KLS, loads of her dialogue was just repeating the last thing said to her. Concerned person: "Why were you in the cemetary?" KLS: "The cemetary?" Concerned person: "Yes, you seemed lost!" KLS: "Lost?" It happened so much so that many of her scenes were boring and drearily repetitive. Not her fault, mind, (she didn't write Maggie, afterall)...but her scenes could get plenty dull nonetheless.
Frid could bring us into his performance. Even if his repetition of lines was off, he still was magnetic. Some other performers could give perfect readings, and somehow manage to bore me. Just because someone can remember lots of dialogue doesn't mean they can convey the emotions necessary to make us give a toss, afterall.
BTW, I kind of think the best actor on the show was probably Thayer David. He memorized lines quite perfectly, could save a flub, and made his character compelling without overacting. Frid's my favorite but I still have to give props out to Thayer.
As for Grayson, awww...I still love her. She did overact and pulled the silliest faces but I still love her. She was fun to watch and had great chemistry with Frid. Makes me wonder why she'd diss him so. ???
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I remember being a little surprised at a comment KLS made at the festival in Anaheim a couple of years ago. She was asked a question about Mr. Frid and his reputation for forgetting his lines. KLS commented that as a young person during the production of DS, memorization of lines presented no problem, and she added in reference to those who had difficulties with this that they should "just memorize them." I can appreciate the exasperation that some actors might have with those who have a problem memorizing lines, but I didn't think she was very understanding of the problem.
I imagine it can be a little annoying for the technically perfect performer to not get as much attention as the performer who is technically imperfect but manages to capture the audience's imagination and ignite their passion on a far greater scale. It smacks of sour grapes when certain actors comment on it especially when they attend the festivals and the technically imperfect actors do not and are constantly asked for.;)
Maybe if JF bought a few of KLS' books, she'd be less inclined to criticize him... ;)
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As for Grayson, awww...I still love her. She did overact and pulled the silliest faces but I still love her. She was fun to watch and had great chemistry with Frid. Makes me wonder why she'd diss him so. ???
Eh! I would guess she was just running her mouth (as was the norm). I haven't heard that interview but I know she had a tendency to sort of over-speak, "let it all hang out", maybe speak first, think later, etc. LOL
When I saw Jonathan and Grayson together they appeared quite chummy.
Anyway, it's easy to take a comment from an interview and blow it out of proportion without knowing the people involved and their relationship with each other.
;D
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And sometimes when Jonathan Frid delivered his lines flawlessly, it was an incredible bit of acting. I particularly remember the classic scene where he returns to the Old House after being released by Willie and sorrowfully addresses the essence of Josette in the portrait.
I think that might be my favorite JF moment. Really shows Barnabas' insecurity and vulnerability, especially those final words, "whatever that may turn out to be." (Not sure if that's the exact quote.)
As we like to say on another list, that was most certainly a *defining moment*. Having watched the early Barnabas episodes again recently, especially the early B&J eps., all I can say is that whatever flaws there were, it never undermined the power, the energy of Frid's performance. Those complex characters had such chemistry...that's what strikes you the most. But of course I love the bloopers, and can really get a kick out of the absurdity of various situations...
I just look at it as a celebration of the whole entity that is DS...it's all good.
Stop rolling your eyes at me... LOL. ;)
<LOL> There's an idea: Willie could have taught Barnabas how to be "mod" -- a hip, swingin' cat from London, decked out in the latest Carnaby Street fashions.
LMAO. Always got the gears turning, doncha Jean-Claude? ;D
On that note, it is interesting to think about how "timeless" DS is. DC and Company managed to keep out any sort of then-contemporary references. Aside from hair, clothing, and make-up, there is really nothing about the series that links it to the 1960s or early 1970s.
Certain members of my family and I have talked about that...at length, believe it or not. :P Although, one thing my sister and I have caught is references to modern music...definitely heard a few Beatles melodies played in the Blue Whale at one time or another, etc...
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I've always thought that a lot of the flubs made the characters seem more real to me, more natural. It does seem Jonathan Frid did it the most, but I've also never found him to be less than convincing. I think Connie may be on to something as far as JF seeming to flub his lines more with certain types of dialogue. A lot of his big scenes seem like monologues to me, like the one Gerard mentioned, and he just nails them. My favorite scene is when he tells Carolyn and Vicki the story of Josette's death! It's a huge piece of dialogue and he's so good.
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My favorite scene is when he tells Carolyn and Vicki the story of Josette's death! It's a huge piece of dialogue and he's so good.
Scott, I've been thinking of that scene too, and was planning to post a separate thread asking if anyone has access to that speech. Somone posted it on the forum several years back. I would love to have a copy of it again! Anyone?!? A phrase that might be searched on google, perhaps? I remember something about the bloodless body at the foot of Widow's Hill.
Frid did a superb job in that very effective scene!
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Regarding KLS, I'm sure she meant no ill will and has expressed her fondness for JF too. She seems to tell anecdotes that will entertain an audience -- a few years back she was interviewed for a tabloid about DS, and some of her memories, while hilarious, are known not to have been accurate (for example, I think she repeated the story of someone jumping from Widow's Hill and bouncing back up into the frame).
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Amen Nancy. It's called class, but this time with capitol "C". He is one of the great actors I have had the great pleasure of seeing. If you want to see "Class", watch Barnabas, Vicki and Carolyn at Collinwood. There is a storm, lights go out, and it was still filmed in b/w. 'Barnabas' tells them about Josette.
He a slow reader. And besides, who hasn't "Flub his Lines"
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...remember being a little surprised at a comment KLS made at the festival in Anaheim a couple of years ago. She was asked a question about Mr. Frid and his reputation for forgetting his lines. KLS commented that as a young person during the production of DS, memorization of lines presented no problem, and she added in reference to those who had difficulties with this that they should "just memorize them."
I think KLS's comments are especially tacky for several reasons 1) she and JF had some amazing scenes together and if she didn't recognize his talent back then and STILL doesn't recognize Frid's talent then she's a boob who makes Josette seem like a rocket scientist ALSO 1) KLS seems to have benefited the most from Frid's talent in that her publishing company (promogate or something like that press) makes money off of DS with Jonathan Frid's picture as the brooding Barnabas smack right on the front cover (I know cause I've seen the book in Barnes and Noble)...don't tell me she doesn't know what sells DS books.
And may I go even further in stating that if it weren't for JF's talent (bad memory and all) there would probably be no DS festivals for KLS and that jerk Roger Davies to use as a forum to promote their own interests and money making and bad mouthing JF. Sorry to the other great actors on the show - John Karlen who always strikes me as the most intelligent, Thayer David, Clarice Blackburn, Louis Edmonds and Lara Parker. But DS was simply JF's time and place.
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...remember being a little surprised at a comment KLS made at the festival in Anaheim a couple of years ago. She was asked a question about Mr. Frid and his reputation for forgetting his lines. KLS commented that as a young person during the production of DS, memorization of lines presented no problem, and she added in reference to those who had difficulties with this that they should "just memorize them."
I think KLS's comments are especially tacky for several reasons 1) she and JF had some amazing scenes together and if she didn't recognize his talent back then and STILL doesn't recognize Frid's talent then she's a boob who makes Josette seem like a rocket scientist ALSO 1) KLS seems to have benefited the most from Frid's talent in that her publishing company (promogate or something like that press) makes money off of DS with Jonathan Frid's picture as the brooding Barnabas smack right on the front cover (I know cause I've seen the book in Barnes and Noble)...don't tell me she doesn't know what sells DS books.
And may I go even further in stating that if it weren't for JF's talent (bad memory and all) there would probably be no DS festivals for KLS and that jerk Roger Davies to use as a forum to promote their own interests and money making and bad mouthing JF. Sorry to the other great actors on the show - John Karlen who always strikes me as the most intelligent, Thayer David, Clarice Blackburn, Louis Edmonds and Lara Parker. But DS was simply JF's time and place.
I attended the fest you refer to and KLS did say those words although not in that content... her words were said in a sarcastic humorous fashion, I recall her saying it that way.. how difficult it was for everyone to memorize their lines then learn new lines almost at the last second before tapping and that to anyone who never knew this would simply say "just memorize them" KLS is the most sweetest person and would never ever say a cruel or unpleasant statement about anyone.
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I attended the fest you refer to and KLS did say those words although not in that content... her words were said in a sarcastic humorous fashion, I recall her saying it that way.. how difficult it was for everyone to memorize their lines then learn new lines almost at the last second before tapping and that to anyone who never knew this would simply say "just memorize them" KLS is the most sweetest person and would never ever say a cruel or unpleasant statement about anyone.
Since making my original post I think I have recalled more accurately that KLS's exact words were "just learn your lines!" She expressed this with a touch of (perhaps) mock exasperation but she seemed to mean it, too. That's why I was a bit taken aback. I felt it a bit personally too, having some acting experience years ago, and remembering that learning my lines didn't come especially easily to me, whereas KLS suggested she couldn't understand why anyone couldn't just learn them. She specifically stated how easily memorization is when you're young, as most of the DS cast was. (Reminded me a bit of a statistics instructor I had, she was a grad student, who, in showing how to solve a problem, said, "you just solve it." Easy for her to say, and I soon bowed out of the class.)
Perhaps you were present at a different occasion when KLS might have said something different.
As I expanded upon in a later comment, I did not mean to imply that KLS made her comment with any malice; rather that she often relates a story or anecdote that gets a laugh. It's unfortunate that in the above post, someone else's comment appears to have merged with mine since ... the second comment was someone else's!
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It's unfortunate that in the above post, someone else's comment appears to have merged with mine since ... the second comment was someone else's!
The post has been edited to attribute the quotes correctly.
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Not to beat a dead horse, but...................................................
As was stated before but is worth noting again, Jonathan was very often on day after day after day. Other actors were on maybe twice a week. When he was on he was always in most of the scenes. Even for a quick study those circumstances had to be difficult and he has always said said memorizing lines was difficult for him. Remember he came from the stage where he recited the same lines night after night.
Do I put him with the greats of Marlon Brando, Sean Penn, Robert DeNiro or Al Pacino? Of course not but he is a very fine actor who has given me many great memories of my childhood and I thank him for that.
Murph
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Bravo murph.
p.s. I LOVE everyone of the actors that you have mentioned. They are.....Gods on Mt. Olympus. 8)
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Thank you for straightening out the quotes, Midnite ;D
Do I put him with the greats of Marlon Brando, Sean Penn, Robert DeNiro or Al Pacino? Of course not but he is a very fine actor who has given me many great memories of my childhood and I thank him for that.
Hmm, I don't know about that, Murph! I think we would really have to see all of the actors performing comparable (or the same) roles and in the same media (i.e., all doing the performance on live TV, or all performing the role on film, etc.)
As far as "stars" or "great actors" are concerned, I personally think that most of them are fine actors who for some reason or another made it big ... and that many of their supporting and unsung fellow actors are equally talented.
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It does not matter what roles he gets, or how many oscars the guy ends up winning, Sean Penn will always be Jeff Spicoli from" Fast times at Ridgemont High" His performance was Gnarly. ;)
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It does not matter what roles he gets, or how many oscars the guy ends up winning, Sean Penn will always be Jeff Spicoli from" Fast times at Ridgemont High" His performance was Gnarly. ;)
LOL That's funny... Whenever someone mentions Sean Penn to me, I don't even think of his acting - the only thing that runs through my head is "That's the guy that slapped Madonna around."
[91a2]
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Jonathan Frid's Freudian slip during a particularly troublesome scene of dialogue:
"As long as Willie is alive, my entire career is in danger!"
And I know Frid gets a lot of flack for flubbed lines, but Grayson Hall is matching him pretty well, if we're keeping score.
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Yeah, and while I will always love seeing Jonathan and Lara together either on or off stage, I myself think that Lara has brought up Jonathan flubbing his lines in the last couple of years more often than was neccessary. What I sometimes find myself doing now if I am watching some of my favorite Barnabas/Angelique scenes is saying to myself, aha, Lara, you flubbed here in that scene and Jonathan was great!! And it did happen!! Well, when you watch things over and over you sometimes find yourself spotting other things, but does not prevent my enjoyment from watching their joint scenes repeatedly, their chemistry leapt off the screen most of the time whether the scene was letter perfect or not, and I think we will see on the last two upcoming MPI video sets that they were both really at the top of their game late 1840 and in PT 1841, I think Jonathan getting a new character in a way reenergized his performance on the show, though sadly it was the last segment of the show...
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I read ( I forget where- I think in one of KLS's DS books) That Jonathan Frid was uable to see the teleprompter good enough to bail him out if he forgot his lines, unlike most of the other actors. Since he couldn't wear his glasses during filming.
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Frid had to memorize monologues and lengthy passages of dialogue. These were often written in a heightened, eloquent style of English which most people don't use in everyday speech. He had to do that almost every day, live on tape with only the night before and the next morning to get all those new lines memorized. Not only that, but he had to infuse those lengthy lines with meaning - pretty much on the spot. ANY actor, under those circumstances, will stumble at least occasionally. There were rarely any retakes on the show and no one is perfect. I've heard JF get picked on for this stuff and it makes no sense to me. Roger Davis and KLS had to memorize lines overnight as well, but they weren't delivering lengthy speeches about Widow's Hill and regularly using words like "elliptic" and "sepulchre." Actors like Jonathan Frid, Thayer David, and Lara Parker often had these lengthy and "fancy" sorts of speeches to deliver.
-Penny
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Despite these innate difficulties, there were several scenes on DS where I thought he was just brilliant.
I agree, one scene that comes to mind for me is the Tower Room scene between he and Angelique in 1897. He was SPOT on and didn't flub once or look at the teleprompter. The scene was smooth and flawless, to the point that I forget I'm watching a TV show *every* time I watch it. I'm just GLUED to my seat watching it. I also agree w/others about the scene w/him and Josette's portrait. IMHO, that's probably the point where his 13 week stint was about to turn into a 4 year one as I'm sure fans truly empathized w/this strange, sad, LONELY young man! :'(
I seem to recall John Karlen making that same point.....that the amount of time between getting the script and shooting the scene was never sufficient to learn the lines properly.
And John Karlen is also the biggest cheerleader for Jonathan when asked about this by fans when he says, basically, "Hey guys, give Johnny a break, he had 85% of the dialog on any given day!" ;)
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I know I would be irritated beyond belief having to constantly cover up for someone else's mistakes. But then I would not turn around and capitalize off that same person's success while still complaining about that individual. That strikes me as being rather hypocritical. I have yet to DS brought out outside any DS festival or fan event say, when DS is brought up - "Hey, how about that Kathryn Leigh Scott! Remember her?!" Not once.
Now, before I comment on this, I want it understood dear cousins that I have absolutely NO PROBLEMS w/KLS! She's always been very kind, gracious and friendly to me (whether it was/is sincere or a book selling ploy who knows, but I digress...LOL!), so take this w/that in mind.
I agree w/Nancy that sometimes it seems like sour grapes for KLS to sound catty about Jon's memorization skills, especially in light of the fact that he was the STAR of DS and she, well, she just WASN'T! That said, I think mostly she is just poking playful, loving fun at a guy who I think IS a dear friend (maybe they really hate each other, I don't know) but they always seemed genuinely warm and friendly to one another at the Fest's I saw them at so there's that. And I think Lara is the same way, she teases Jonathan, to his face and behind his back, about flubbing lines. But I've never heard her say anything in a malicious sort of way, more like, "Oh Jonathan, forgot his lines--AGAIN!" then a playful smile and roll of the eyes. But she's another one who I *think* genuinely LIKES Jonathan and is not trying to damage his rep w/the fans.
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What frosted me was in listening to the Conversation with Grayson CD she thought Jonathan was "dumb" because he flubbed the lines and that he was not a very good actor.
LOL! But you know what's so FUNNY about that comment from her, she IMMEDIATELY follows it up by quickly saying, "But, he's a VERY nice man!" ;D
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My favorite scene is when he tells Carolyn and Vicki the story of Josette's death! It's a huge piece of dialogue and he's so good.
YES! Another scene where he's spot on! ;)
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a few years back she was interviewed for a tabloid about DS, and some of her memories, while hilarious, are known not to have been accurate (for example, I think she repeated the story of someone jumping from Widow's Hill and bouncing back up into the frame).
Several actors have told that story about Terry Crawford and I've never seen that scene, I think perhaps it happened in rehersals and the actors think it happened during taping. It's the scene where [spoiler]Beth is running from Quentin thinking he's possessed by Petofi, and falls off Widows Hill.[/spoiler]
KLS does this again when she talks about [spoiler]Sam's death, where he *supposedly* sits bolt up in bed and says "WHERE IS IT!" when the teleprompter falls off the camera and she said, "Don't worry Pop, it's okay" and he just dies.[/spoiler]
That's not how it happened on camera so again, I think it happened in rehersal and she's confused. ;)
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One of the things I admire personally about Jonathan Frid is that I know he did not work four years with a group of people - his colleagues - without having any criticisms or complaints about any cast member or production member. But you haven't heard him criticize them made in public on the stage at the festivals or anywhere else because he doesn't do that. It's called class.
Actually, that's not true. I heard an interview, I *believe* it was on The Ron Berry Show that Frid did solo, where he was saying he couldn't understand why a certain actress, now, mind you, he didn't NAME KLS-but you knew damn well it was her he was referring to if you watched the show, had trouble getting into a coffin for a scene on the show. He was basically like, "Hey, it's called ACTING, just get in the coffin!" or something to that affect. He didn't say this in a overly mean way, actually it was rather matter-of-fact, but the point was driven home, at least for me. ;)
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their chemistry leapt off the screen most of the time whether the scene was letter perfect or not, and I think we will see on the last two upcoming MPI video sets that they were both really at the top of their game late 1840 and in PT 1841, I think Jonathan getting a new character in a way reenergized his performance on the show, though sadly it was the last segment of the show...
Absolutely it did! LP and JF had chemistry to BURN, especially during 1841 PT when they were lovers Bramwell and Catherine! ;D
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I also agree w/others about the scene w/him and Josette's portrait. IMHO, that's probably the point where his 13 week stint was about to turn into a 4 year one
I like to imagine the other cast and the crew watching as this was being filmed, and holding their breath and thinking: "By George, we've got something here."
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Actually, that's not true. I heard an interview, I *believe* it was on The Ron Berry Show that Frid did solo, where he was saying he couldn't understand why a certain actress, now, mind you, he didn't NAME KLS-but you knew damn well it was her he was referring to if you watched the show, had trouble getting into a coffin for a scene on the show. He was basically like, "Hey, it's called ACTING, just get in the coffin!" or something to that affect. He didn't say this in a overly mean way, actually it was rather matter-of-fact, but the point was driven home, at least for me. ;)
Perhaps he told it more than once, but he tells this story on his Merv Griffin appearance that's on the reunion DVD.
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Perhaps he told it more than once, but he tells this story on his Merv Griffin appearance that's on the reunion DVD.
You know what, that may have been where I heard it! I'll have to go back and look at my copy of that Merv Griffin appearance.
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Flubbed lines or not, Jonathan and his portrayal of Barnabas is what made me started watching Dark Shadows.
Besides I think most of us agree that the bloopers (flubbed lines and others) is part of Dark Shadow's charm. We can laugh at the bloopers yet we can still take the stories seriously.
Jonathan had a lot of powerful scenes he played to perfection (such as the all-ready mentioned scene where he tells Vicki and Carolyn the details of Josette's death) that his occasional bloopers can easily be forgiven. And it's not like he was the only one who messed up on his lines. I think just about everyone on the show flubbed once in awhile. Even Joan Bennett (whom I consider the best actress on the show) was known to mess up on the lines once in awhile.
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On page 133 of the DS Companion, it says that "on one occasion, the incidental noise got out of hand and Frid asked to 'stop tape'. His polite request was just as politely ignored." Anyone know where in the show's run this took place?