DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
Members' Mausoleum => Calendar Events / Announcements Archive => Calendar Events / Announcements '24 I => Calendar Events / Announcements '04 II => Topic started by: Raineypark on September 16, 2004, 02:57:20 AM
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Is now available, and being advertised and reviewed with considerable enthusiasm.
The problem is: Nothing about the title or the reviews will give you so much as a hint that it's a Dark Shadows book.
S.E. Hinton, author of acclaimed novels such as The Outsiders and Rumble Fish has written her first book in 15 years, entitled Hawkes Harbor
Nowhere on the book jacket, or in the blurbs, is any mention made of Dark Shadows. None of the names will have the slightest ring of the familiar. But if you're a Dark Shadows fan, and, in particular, a fan of the character of Willie Loomis, it won't take long for you to realise that S. E. Hinton has written the story of Willie's life.
Beginning with his early childhood traumas (the death of a parent, his placement in the Orphanage from Hell) and on to the tales of his years at sea with his friend Kell, Jamie Sommers lives the life of Willie Loomis, in detail not even the most devoted fan would have conjured up.
We learn about his years among pirates and thieves in the South China Sea, the rich and famous off the coast of France, and especially with his Irish gun-runner friend, Kellan. Or is his name really Jason Maguire?
But we know where this young man is headed, and what (make that who) lies in wait for him.
At first, I thought I'd finally over-dosed on Dark Shadows. I've just been to my first Fest and I spend an awful lot of time on this forum..... ;) I kept thinking.."okay...now you're seeing Willie Loomis in a novel by one of the best known authors in America."
But after Jamie ends up in a Psych Ward.....and we learn about his encounter with a Vampire.....well, I knew who Jamie Sommers really was, and so will you.
It will amuse you to recognize characters in spite of their unfamiliar names. Believe me, you'll have very few doubts about the major figures. You'll also recognize incidents from the beginning of the original storyline that lead to the arrival of 'Grenville Hawkes', and the direction Jamie's life takes from there.
And if you read the novel carefully, you'll notice the only time a name from the series appears in print.....but if you're not looking for it, it might slip right past you, it's so short. Almost as if S. E. Hinton was playing a game with fans of the show, to see if anyone caught on to the joke.
Imagine my astonishment and delight, to have purchased the book on a whim....knowing almost nothing about it at all.....only to find the ultimate "fan fiction" retelling of the relationship of Willie Loomis and Barnabas Collins.
Which leaves me wondering.....why on earth didn't any of us know about this already? :D
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Which leaves me wondering.....why on earth didn't any of us know about this already? :D
There had been a news item floating around online some time ago that Hinton would be writing the next DS novel, but nothing more was said about it, and talk turned to Lara Parker's efforts to write her second novel.
Guess Hinton didn't abandon the project after all.
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I'm interested in looking up this book. Hinton is a major figure in young adult fiction, though I've never read anything by her. I'd be curious to know if her new book is also YA fiction (I'll find out soon enough by checking amazon).
I remember the announcement that she was writing the next DS novel, which conflicted with previous announcements that Lara Parker was working on her second DS novel for HarperCollins. I can't remember the details now other than reading that Hinton's book had been rejected (whether by DCP or by HarperCollins, I forget). Sometime later it was reported that Hinton's outline had been rejected because of explicit sexual content. Don't remember who reported that and maybe it wasn't accurate, yet for some reason her project was dropped. Or was it wrongly reported in the first place - it's hard to understand how both Parker and Hinton could have been officially touted as writing the second DS novel for HarperCollins. I think Mark Rainey would know the background of this.
???
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Hinton is a major figure in young adult fiction, though I've never read anything by her. I'd be curious to know if her new book is also YA fiction (I'll find out soon enough by checking amazon).
The review on the front page of today's Calendar (entertainment) section of the L.A. Times indicated that this was her first adult novel (and her first published book in 25 years?!). The opinion of the reviewer, who is a huge fan of Hinton's young adult lit, is summed up by the article's title: "A taste for blood taints Hinton's new venture." Obviously, some people don't appreciate horror. :-
it's hard to understand how both Parker and Hinton could have been officially touted as writing the second DS novel for HarperCollins. I think Mark Rainey would know the background of this.
???
I'm sure you meant the 3rd DS novel. Mark co-authored the 2nd.
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i'll have to check this out rainey as i'm going to the book store today thanks
(after the treadmill that is started back this week have to lose those 15 lbs! :o)
jennifer
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The review on the front page of today's Calendar (entertainment) section of the L.A. Times indicated that this was her first adult novel (and her first published book in 25 years?!). The opinion of the reviewer, who is a huge fan of Hinton's young adult lit, is summed up by the article's title: "A taste for blood taints Hinton's new venture." Obviously, some people don't appreciate horror. :-
The reviewer had praise for all parts of the book with the exception of the "reformed vampire." And, not being a fan of horror or vampires, she obviously did NOT get the DS connection. Too bad.
The last portion of the review reads:
"If readers prepare themselves, they may be able to encounter the novel on its own terms and embrace once again the voice of a fabulous writer. Hinton is an author whose work -- vampires aside--I'll forever revere." :-
Bette
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Check out page 108 where the character opens the vampire's coffin...
"What year is it?"
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Guess I figured out what I'm reading on my next bus trip to Canada! Thanks, Raineypark, and all the others who have commented on this.
I've been thinking about Willie's backstory as I have been watching the very first batch of Willie episodes; the ones with James Hall. The character got a radical retooling once Karlen "the Boss" took over.
It's weird to watch the early scenes between Jason and Willie. The dynamic between the two seems s-o-o-o slashy. I just found an interview with Dennis Patrick (taped a little over ten years ago, I guess) where he said he liked to play it as if Willie was "his" and he and Karlen had a lot of fun spicing up their scenes together. He also said that JK kept sliding into the brogue when they were rehearsing and DP would say, "Now, Johnny, *I* do the brogue and *you* do the vampire bites!" funny stuff...
G.
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I don't know many details about what transpired officially with S. E. Hinton. I know there was talk about her doing the third book, but it wasn't long after Dreams of the Dark came out that HarperCollins ended up selling their entertainment division. (This was not due in any way to shortcomings with the sales of Dreams; in fact, HC indicated great pleasure with its performance.) So that closing in effect killed Hinton's potential slot as the next author in the series.
There was talk of the line moving to Tor, but the word came down from the powers-that-be that, if there were to be any more DS books on the menu, they would be written only by the stars of the show. (Don't get me started on this kind of "celebrity book = success" mentality; selling a name rather than a writer is a personal bugaboo of mine.) However, their "research" indicated that none of the DS stars really had enough of a name draw to warrant continuing the line. Tor did agree to publish Lara's next Dark Shadows novel (as a trade paperback); and I know that the deal is still available to her, but I don't know if and when she'll turn in the book.
Anyway, I haven't read Hinton's novel (yet), but I definitely will. I think it's great that she was able to pull off a kind of work-around to see that her book got produced. I briefly entertained the idea of doing something along the same lines, but I abandoned it quickly simply because I have too many of my own "things" that I want to do. The only way I'd do a Dark Shadows project is as a Dark Shadows project. However, I will say that in my most recent novel (The Lebo Coven, now out in hardback from Five Star Books), I've included a few subtle -- I guess you'd call them "playful" ;D -- links that would be evident only to fans. For example, the main character's family comes from Maine, and there's a reference to "Grandma and Grandpa Collins." That sort of thing -- just enough of a nod to be gratifying. ;)
--M
http://home.triad.rr.com/smrainey
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For what it's worth, "Hawkes Harbor" was published by Tor Books.
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For residents of LaLaLand, SE Hinton will be signing Hawkes Harbor at
Dutton's Brentwood Bookstore (http://duttonsbrentwood.booksense.com/NASApp/store/IndexJsp) on Wednesday, Sept. 29 at 7 p.m.
11975 San Vicente Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90049
Tel: (310) 476-6263
http://www.duttonsbrentwood.com/septembercalendar.html#Hinton
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I found the review posted on collinwood.net (announced by Stuart in another thread) very informative and helpful ... I'm happy to be passing on the book. I'm not exactly a prude, but I know in this instance this book wouldn't be to my tastes.
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I found the review posted on collinwood.net (announced by Stuart in another thread) very informative and helpful ... I'm happy to be passing on the book. I'm not exactly a prude, but I know in this instance this book wouldn't be to my tastes.
There doesn't appear to be a review on collinwood.net.....I believe you are referring to the jacket blurb provided by the publishing company.
I've read the book.....and that blurb tells you nothing significant at all....especially if you're a Dark Shadows fan. There's no mention of the connection at all.
And the reference to sexual content is mis-leading. The book might have more sexual content than any previous Hinton book....but that's to be expected since all her previous books were written for the Young Adult market. The sexual encounters in this book are not particularly frequent, bizarre or detailed. They are, for the most part, romantic.....or sad.
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There is a review on Collinwood.net.
It's at:
http://www.collinwood.net/features/review/hawkes.htm
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Thanks for that link, Darren--I hadn't spotted that.
Boy, there sure are a lot of spoilers in that review!
Think I'll wait to borrow the library copy of this book.
G.
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Just finished reading this and found it rather moving. It's a shame the publishers didn't go with this as the next DS novel. Havng a known author contribute to the series certainly would have upped its prestige level and could have even generated interest in a new DS series or theatrical film.
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I'm not sure what the majority of fans would make of this book if it had been issued as a DS novel.
The "Barnabas" character is secondary and not very sympathetic. That suits me just fine.....but most fans of the show wouldn't be too thrilled, would they? ;)
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The "Barnabas" character is secondary and not very sympathetic. That suits me just fine.....but most fans of the show wouldn't be too thrilled, would they? ;)
I think the decision to reject this book says a lot about fan fiction vs. "official" novelizations. Fan fic writers/audiences are much more eager to embrace and explore these sorts of stories that foreground a secondary character (please don't slap me, Willie fans). The stuff that's produced commercially has to appeal to a broader base, so you're not going to see many of the "twists" associated with fan fic. What Hinton is up to here is what fans would expect and most likely embrace from a fan fic writer, but the very same people might scream and yell over what she did if it were sanctioned novelization, perhaps because it somehow represents an assault on the DS canon that a piece of fan fic wouldn't present because it doesn't carry the blessings of DCP.
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One aspect of the novel that I really enjoyed was
***SPOILER*** (forgive me for not using the spoiler text feature--I can't figure out how to do it)
[spoiler]the relationship between "Willie" and "Maggie". One thing that always bothered me about DS is Willie's never fully escaping suspicion regarding Maggie's kidnapping. The moments of "Willie's" vindication are quite lovely.[/spoiler]
By the way, am I the only person who found it distracting that the "Willie" character's new name is the same as that of the Bionic Woman? ::)
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***SPOILER*** (forgive me for not using the spoiler text feature--I can't figure out how to do it)
[spoiler]the text you want to hide[/spoiler]
:)
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[spoiler]One aspect of the novel that I really enjoyed was the relationship between "Willie" and "Maggie". One thing that always bothered me about DS is Willie's never fully escaping suspicion regarding Maggie's kidnapping. The moments of "Willie's" vindication are quite lovely.[/spoiler]
Another reason I probably wouldn't like the novel, if I understand you correctly. One of the things that made DS unique was its refusal to resolve all its tensions and ambiguities. Hence Barnabas never fell in love with Julia, no matter how much some fans may have wanted this. Barnabas was neither entirely good nor entirely evil. We are meant to admire and sympathize with Julia, yet she was clearly complicit in a murder. A cloud of suspicion continued to hang over Willie (though I'd forgotten this). Characters remained in the dark over the true nature of others and their true motives, just as is the case in real life. Though DS is often said to have pandered to its audience, it did not always do so, and that is one of the things I most admire about the original series.
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Hence Barnabas never fell in love with Julia, no matter how much some fans may have wanted this.
Hmm - I think that's debatable... ;) Barn. was such a complicated character...you could never quite tell what was really going on in that noggin of his (chuckle), especially near the end of the series. I know they officially left things unsaid but...well...ya know... ;)
Although, I wholeheartedly agree that one of the awesome things about the show was it's refusal to resolve all of it's loose ends. Makes the show that_ much_ more_ fun to watch, again and again; contemplating all the storylines and unique characters from beginning to end. :) Oh, how I miss it being on the boob tube. Sigh...
And interestingly enough, that's also what makes fanfiction that much more delicious. But that's just me... I know, I'm a nut (kinda like a low-fat chewy chocolate chip cookie spiked with rainbow m&m's, sprinkles, sliced almonds and chopped pecans for added crunch. Hey, new recipe...gotta write that down... ;)). ;D lol
I now send you back to the original discussion at hand...cough...[/i] :-*
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Well, I loved it. I think it's extreme and perhaps a little challenging to the DS status quo, but I think that's healthy. I just think it's a pity that such a vivid take on the format can only make it into print hiding under faux names and sly sidesteps.
I suppose how much acceptance it would have found as a bonafide DS novel is moot, but as a part of an ongoing series of books, I would hope that readers can embrace these sort of deviations from the norm as not only welcome but necessary.
BTW, did anyone else spot the glitch where one of the characters slipped into their copyright-challenged alter-ego?
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BTW, did anyone else spot the glitch where one of the characters slipped into their copyright-challenged alter-ego?
LOL, yes, and both first and last names.
I think it was natural to resolve the plot point mentioned by Jean-Claude since it's a novel about Willie, and it's a given that I was picturing a young John Karlen (sigh) throughout.
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Excerpt from book review in Entertainment Weekly Online from 9/10:
"Hinton hopes all the hoopla will generate some Hollywood interest. She has fond memories of standing alongside Francis Ford Coppola on the Tulsa sets of The Outsiders and Rumble Fish."
:o
It also states that she spent 5 years researching and writing HH and was signed to a two-book deal with Tor after several publishers passed, provided she get out and sell herself. She's about to do just that as she begins a 12-city tour.
The full article is at http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,692230_5_0_,00.html and is accessible to EW subscribers, AOL members, and anyone with the current issue lying around.
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Go to: www.bookreporter.com for an interview with S. E. Hinton and how she came about to write Hawke's Harbor.
~~Carol
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And still not one word of acknowledgment by the author that the book is based on Dark Shadows. ::)
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I wonder if she can't say anything for fear of the remotest possibility of having DCP lawyers pounding at her door.
Gerard
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I don't think that can be the scenario, Gerard. Sooner or later, it would have to get back to DCP...how could it be kept secret?
Someone else suggested that it's actually the opposite: that Dan Curtis agreed to let the book be published only so long as no mention of the connection was made directly by the author or the publishing company.
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Someone else suggested that it's actually the opposite: that Dan Curtis agreed to let the book be published only so long as no mention of the connection was made directly by the author or the publishing company.
That sounds plausible to me. I'm looking forward to reading it myself.
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I finally picked up a copy and started reading it. What's fun is, in my mind, substituting the DS characters for the ones in the novel. Whenever I see "Jamie," I just think "Willie," etc.
Gerard
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There are several legal reasons why she probably did not acknowledge DS, and one of the reasons might have to do with a request from DCP that her inspiration not be acknowledged.
Several possibilities . .
Nancy
And still not one word of acknowledgment by the author that the book is based on Dark Shadows. ::)
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And if you read the novel carefully, you'll notice the only time a name from the series appears in print.....but if you're not looking for it, it might slip right past you, it's so short. Almost as if S. E. Hinton was playing a game with fans of the show, to see if anyone caught on to the joke.
I just came upon it today in my reading of the novel. What a wonderful surprise! Kudos to Ms. Hinton for "sliding" it in, a sort-of deliberate "error" for just us Dark Shadows fans. It reminds me of the one, deliberate faux pas James Cameron did in his 1997 Titanic to see if fanatics of the ship's history would catch it - smoke came out of the fourth stack; that funnel was actually a "dummy," placed there to give the impression of size, and used to store deckchairs.
Gerard
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???
Review of "Hawkes Harbor"
I reviewed the book, finally, after putting off the task, and cannot say I can recommend it. In fact, I would say instead: stay well away and save your money for something else.
It took me two hours to read the book, so it's not very long. Certainly not long enough to deal with the subject matter, which is the life of a young man from the age of 8 to the age of 40. It barely skims the surface of most of Jamie Summer's life, leaving out the development that would tell us why and how he came to be as he is.
The writing itself is inconsistent and poor. There are sentences and thoughts ending in ellipses on almost every page. Ellipses typically indicate information that has been removed from a quote. Here, Hinton uses them, as some writers do, to indicate unfinished thoughts on the part of the protagonist, the antagonist, and everyone in between. It might be said, however, that the ellipses mostly seem to indicate unfinished thoughts on the part of Hinton in writing her story. It's almost as if she's not sure what her characters think. For example, on page 21: "Dr. McDevitt sighed. There had been no mention in his record of these fantasies¢â‚¬¦." Pardon me? Either there was a mention in his record of these fantasies or there wasn't. Either the doctor knows or he doesn't. Why the ellipses? Is there some dramatic statement that Hinton feels she is making? I know a great many gothic novels from the 1970's that use this technique to far more effect than this.
The point of view (pov) skips trippingly from character to character, never staying long enough in one place for the reader to be able to get a very good idea of what motivates that character. On any given page, we get the points of view of at least two people. For example, on page 62 we get the pov of both Jamie Summers and Dr. Louisa Kahne. It starts with Kahne looking at Jamie, and then Jamie looking at Kahne. The objective of this, one assumes, is so that Hinton doesn't have to develop the point of view of one character too much. It's easier that way. The last time I read a book with that many points of view on a single page was a romance novel, where this technique is used so that not only the beauty of the heroine is described from the pov of the hero, the reader gets an eyeful of the handsomeness of the hero from the heroine's perspective. But truly, the worst part about the jumping pov is that the main character, Jamie Summers, is never fully fleshed out and can never be fully understood by the reader.
The structure of the book muddies the waters even further. For the first half of the book, the story is told in flashback and flash-forward mode, during McDevitt's question and answer sessions with Jamie while he's in the mental institution. The last half of the book mostly moves forward, but there are inexplicable flashbacks there, as well, moving over as much time as a year, or as little as a month. For example, on page 237, it's 1978, and we flash forward to January 2, 1979, to a scene between two characters, Lydia and Richard Hawkes. We've never really seen these characters before, just heard about them from afar. Half a page is devoted to them discussing an odd delivery man that has come to their door. The second half of the page jumps back to December 26, 1978, barely two weeks earlier, where we find Jamie and Grenville in Washington, D.C. together. How does the flash-forward move the plot forward? Moreover, when did Grenville get an office in Washington, D.C?
Since the story was originally a Dark Shadows novel, most of the work is based on the original plots developed by the writers of that show, though they are never given credit. Since the story was not to be published as a Dark Shadows novel, Hinton apparently was willing to change it enough for mainstream publication. That's all very well and good, but to me it appears that too much of the Dark Shadows elements still remain, and the rest of the story was not developed enough to hide the fact that the it is based on very badly written personal fan fiction. For fan fiction it is, a story based on a television series to further develop characters or plots as the writer sees fit. On page 189, an original character from the series mentioned, Roger Collins; Hinton obviously used search and replace for all the other names, why did this particular name slip through? As a nod to DS? Or as a written version of the finger?
Other plot and character elements, as well, remain, intact. Grenville Hawkes is Barnabas Collins, the reluctant vampire. Kell Quinn is the jaunty Irishman, Jason McGuire, who takes Jamie Summers around the world with schemes and dreams. Maggie Evans, as kidnap victim, is found in Katie Roddendem. And Jamie Summers, himself, is based on Willie Loomis, the caretaker of the vampire's residence. Jamie receives three bullets in the back, the original character receives five. Both end up in horrible mental institutions. Both are left there until their masters come to get them. Both are afraid of the dark. The only original part of the novel is the background to Jamie Summers life, and then, what comes after the part where Grenville is cured of his vampirism.
The book, after all, has a vampire in it, and vampires must be cured! Somewhere, between the pages of 142 and 179, Grenville has a miraculous recovery from his curse. How? When? Where? We don't know and we never will. Just all of a sudden, BAM, he's well. Well enough to take Jamie Summers on a cruise around the islands, Jamie, who is suddenly well enough to enjoy himself. There, the two bond with incredible speed and intensity. Yes, sure, they've been through a lot, and it's possible that the two of them could become friends, but excuse me, Grenville tortured Jamie for a long, long time. If Jamie is in denial, that's fine. I can use the Stockholm Syndrome to explain that, as well as the next person can. What I can't understand is how in the world the two men got to the point where they can exchange stories about having sex? I never see Grenville develop the guilt he supposedly feels about what harm he's done to Jamie. I see Jamie, one minute, addicted to a great many drugs, then suddenly, he's cured, with no sign of having gone through withdrawal. I never see how or why anyone changes. They just suddenly have, and with great speed, too.
Speaking of the Stockholm Syndrome. It's a condition that has been around, one supposes, for years. It's a condition whereby the victim in someone else's power comes to view their captor in a kinder, gentler light. This enables the victim to survive. It's coping mechanism, and easy enough to apply to Jamie Summers. The term is mentioned in the book on page 189. (The same page, incidentally, where Roger Collins is mentioned by name.) {Did the editor of the work (was there one?) skip this page altogether?} On page 189, the year is 1968, as clearly indicated at the beginning of the chapter on page 179. In 1968 there was no term "Stockholm Syndrome" that had been coined. We'd have to wait till 1973, when bank robbers in Stockholm, Sweden (hence the name), kept hostages captive in a bank they were robbing. The hostages bonded very quickly in various ways with their captors and the whole thing was caught by the 10 o'clock news. World wide. It was then, in 1973, that the term existed. Yet, Louisa Kahne uses it in 1968. Why? Perhaps Hinton was flash-forwarding and flash-backwarding so often she lost track. Or, perhaps, she didn't care that there was this inaccuracy. I can't call it poetic license, because this isn't an alternate universe. The fact that the term Stockholm Syndrom was coined in 1973 is a fact, and a badly used one. Certainly not a well-researched one.
Other elements, as well, are ill-timed, ill-used, or badly done. For example, on page 62, Louisa Kahne asks Jamie if Grenville beats him. Jamie replies, to himself, "¢â‚¬¦Like It needed to do that¢â‚¬¦" Later, however, we learn that Grenville not only bites Jamie to keep him in line, he smacks him around. So¢â‚¬¦Grenville does beat Jamie. Right? Either Jamie is in denial, which is possible, or Hinton does not have the ability to be consistent within her own work.
Another scene that bothered me was the scene where Jamie meets Kell. This happens on page 32. It takes only half a page for Hinton to passively describe the meeting between two men who would travel around the world for years together. Who got into and out of as many scrapes as might be imagined. They meet, they drink, and Hinton sums it up by saying, "So Kell and Jamie shipped out together." The whole incident is told in the passive voice and we are left being told about the bond, but never shown it.
Throughout the book, paragraphs are one, maybe two sentences long, and characters are half-developed. Towards the end, when it's suddenly 1978, Grenville suddenly gives Jamie a warm quilt. He suddenly realizes that it's cold and drafty where Jamie sleeps. What happened to the bonding that happened on the ship ten years ago? Weren't Grenville and Jamie friends after that? Don't you think that Grenville would have noticed sooner? And then Hinton, obviously unable to figure out what else to do, kills off her main character. The ghost, ta-da, of Kell Quinn comes to take Jamie away, perhaps to a heaven where there are only schooners and warm breezes. What a disaster. And a disappointment.
But, the worst part about the book, I feel, is the fact that it must have been in Hinton's head for quite some time. A lot of fiction is, before the writer gets around to putting it down on paper. And like a lot of fiction, the idea in her head probably centered around a main scene or idea, which she ruminated over for hours on end. Unlike a lot of fiction, however, Hinton did not develop her story beyond this particular idea. This particular idea, I think, was developed in a chapter called The Last Scam, which starts on page 153. The entire scene is told in past tense. The font is italicized, for some reason, perhaps to let us know that it happened long ago. Or something. Anyway, in this scene, Hinton sticks to a single point of view, that of Jamie Summers, which raises the intensity missing in the rest of the book. She tells the scene from beginning to end, with no flash forward or flash back. There are ellipses, but perhaps Hinton can't help those, at this point. But you *know* Hinton loved this scene. It's the one that took her to bed at night, helped her get through chores, and helped her relax when paying the bills. It's *the* scene. The one the story is based around. The one she takes her time with.
In it, Kell comes to say goodbye. His scheme has gone wrong and he's leaving town, wants to say goodbye to his pal, Jamie. Only it's sundown. Grenville awakens. Kills Kell. And Jamie, upon Grenville's instructions, is forced to stake Kell to keep Kell from turning into a vampire. The scene goes deep, and possibly develops why Jamie has nightmares. He makes himself pretend it's not Kell he's staking, and makes himself think of something else through the long ordeal. It's marvelous torture that Hinton performs on Jamie, and she takes her slow, sweet time with it, letting the reader know that she's savoring every last second. It's the scene she wanted to write originally. It's her little fantasy. Unfortunately for her, and for us, in order for the fantasy scene to be published, Hinton had to develop a story around it. And also, unfortunately for us, the rest of the story has all the craft of a below-average Harlequin novel, and even the intensity of six pages of The Last Scam cannot make up for the passively told remaining 144 or so pages of badly constructed framework.
The book jacket describes Hinton as an "honored storyteller," and an "international bestselling author." These accolades are the only reason I think that Hinton's private fantasy got into mainstream publication at all. "Hawkes Harbor" is a far cry from "The Outsiders." Perhaps Hinton has forgotten what she once knew. Perhaps she's a closet DS fan out of touch with what works in fan fiction, let alone mainstream fiction. There are stories out there that have never seen the inside of a bookstore that outshine "Hawkes Harbor" with enough brilliance to blind. They are written not for profit or acclaim, but instead are written only for the pleasure of writing a well-crafted story with fully-fleshed characters and a plot that engages the reader with intelligence and heart. I know Hinton remembers those days. Perhaps she can return to them.
Sincerely,
Maine Girl
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I liked it. I haven't read The Outsiders or Hinton's other works, but I enjoyed HH. I thought the first third of the book was the strongest and that the last third paled in comparison, but it kept me entertained and engaged. I also was able to divorce DS from the story. In fact, during the first portion of the book, I can honestly say that I forgot about it. There are inconsistencies and errors, but to be fair, most books, even books from first rate publishers often have these. They bug me too, but they happen.
Since I doubt any publisher in their right mind would publiished a book whose inspiration came from a copyrighted source, I can only imagine that DCP was aware and gave their blessings. As for the rest, well, we don't know the circumstances or the specifics of the agreement so I'm not about to lay blame on Hinton or Tor.
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Darn. It won't let me edit my post. Anyhow found this http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/life/2004/10/26theundeadputbit.html. The fact that she says she can't talk about it backs up the idea that there was some sort of agreement to that effect.
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I liked it. I haven't read The Outsiders or Hinton's other works, but I enjoyed HH. I thought the first third of the book was the strongest and that the last third paled in comparison, but it kept me entertained and engaged. I also was able to divorce DS from the story. In fact, during the first portion of the book, I can honestly say that I forgot about it. There are inconsistencies and errors, but to be fair, most books, even books from first rate publishers often have these. They bug me too, but they happen.
Since I doubt any publisher in their right mind would publiished a book whose inspiration came from a copyrighted source, I can only imagine that DCP was aware and gave their blessings. As for the rest, well, we don't know the circumstances or the specifics of the agreement so I'm not about to lay blame on Hinton or Tor.
Oh sure. We'll never know the how or the why...and who am I to stop someone from writing a DS novel and publishing it mainstream? Not I. I just think she should have polished her work a bit more before sending it out.
Maine Girl
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starting it today so i'll let you know what i think
jennifer
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starting it today so i'll let you know what i think
Looking forward to hearing it...and good luck!
Maine Girl
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I think this was a major if not the contributing factor as to why I
couldn't get into this book. Not to mention the fact that she
contiously
jumps forward and back. You hit the nail on the head with your
summary, Maine Chick
Janet
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Review of "Hawkes Harbor"
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I have a personal rule about book reviews: sometimes I read them, sometimes I don't.
But I always ignore them when it comes time to decide if I want to read a particular book. Because, after all, the only opinion that matters is my own.
I don't think "Hawkes Harbor" was a great book. But I enjoyed it. Willie Loomis is at the center of the story, and in many ways, he's treated gently by the author.
I suspect that (like me) S.E. Hinton is fond of the character of Willie Loomis. Her "Jamie" was true to the way John Karlen portrayed him. In the end, I felt like I'd gotten a letter from an old friend of whom I'd lost track. The news wasn't all good....but I was glad I'd heard from him.
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I don't think "Hawkes Harbor" was a great book. But I enjoyed it. Willie Loomis is at the center of the story, and in many ways, he's treated gently by the author.
I suspect that (like me) S.E. Hinton is fond of the character of Willie Loomis. Her "Jamie" was true to the way John Karlen portrayed him. In the end, I felt like I'd gotten a letter from an old friend of whom I'd lost track. The news wasn't all good....but I was glad I'd heard from him.
willie was suppose to be a loser who the viewer was suppose to hate IMHO JK made him likable which to me shows what a great actor he is
i think if the other guy had stayed in the role this never would have happened and they would have killed Willie off at some point
so i agree Rainey that the author is probaly fond of our Willie
jennifer
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???
Review of "Hawkes Harbor"
Wow! I'm impressed with the meticulousness of the review you posted on this book Maine Girl. It was very articulate and informative. Thanks so much for your insight. This is a bit off topic....well, more then a bit, ;) but i wonder if any or the posters on this thread have read Gregory Maguire's prequel to the Wizard of Oz entitled; Wicked. If so, I would be interested in your thoughts.
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Wow! I'm impressed with the meticulousness of the review you posted on this book Maine Girl. It was very articulate and informative. Thanks so much for your insight. This is a bit off topic....well, more then a bit, ;) but i wonder if any or the posters on this thread have read Gregory Maguire's prequel to the Wizard of Oz entitled; Wicked. If so, I would be interested in your thoughts.
Thanks for the kind words, Bobubas. I know the review was long, but I felt I needed to write it, even if in the end, everyone must decide for themselves whether or not to read the thing.
As to "Wicked"...is that the guy who wrote the story about the Wicked Witch of the West wherein the Witch is a sympathetic character, and Dorothy is the antagonist?
Maine Girl
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Everybody I know who has read it just loves Wicked. As you probably know, it's now an off-Broadway musical that has been a huge success, too.
My personal experience of Wicked was that it was a wonderful thing to read, UNTIL the author had to follow the Baum narrative which then brings us to the end of his own book. The events as he collapsed them into what was already a far more complicated tapestry than anything Baum ever wrote (I'm pretty sure I read them all back when I was a teenager, including The Sea Fairies which was much better than any of the Oz books) made less and less emotional/narrative sense, TO ME as a reader, as he got further along with the events of the novel. [spoiler]his basic thought seems to have been that what has happened to Elphaba drives her psychotic by the time Dorothy arrives... it wasn't plausible to me. I think he meant the events of Dorothy's visit to seem like a waking nightmare to Elphaba--I found it all to be a pointless jumble.[/spoiler]
Anyhow, like I said, everybody but me loves it. He's written several other books as well. I think the latest one is about the Wicked Queen in Snow White, which certainly sounds like a promising topic!
G.
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Hawkes' Harbor is on my Xmas wish list. Especially with the many divergent opinions I've seen of it, I'm looking forward to reading it for myself.
If I get the main things on my list -- the extended edition of Return of the King, the Star Wars DVD trilogy, and Hawkes' Harbor, I guess that will mean I've been REALLY good this year.
Hm, something tells me I'm liable to get a rock.
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Hey Gothick!
Well I do agree on one point. Maguire gets very bogged down in the end trying to tie together all that has happened to Elphaba throughout her life with the Baum ending we all know so well. I had to reread it over and over to get some continuity out of it, which was a little frustrating.
Otherwise count me among those who absolutely LOVE the book, I've read it twice and definitely recommend it to everyone. He does a wonderful job with character development. He drew me in and got me to truly care about the characters. And the undercurrents of social, political and religious commentary make a person really think!
Color me confused, I thought Wicked was ON Broadway. Hmmmmm, anyhoo, I hope when it tours next year it either comes to my hometown or is in LA at the time of the fest. I really want to see it.
I still need to get a copy of Hawkes Harbor.
And I finally got my copy of Mark Rainey's Deathrealm anthology. This should definitely be on everyone's Christmas reading wish list. And you get double your pleasure DS writer wise since Elizabeth Massie has a story in Deathrealms as well.
Always, Minja 8)
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I'll grant that at least there was some character development (or characterizations, which is not meant to be a slight) and fully formed thoughts in "Wicked," but, treading on dangerous ground here since so many people are so enthusiastic about "Wicked", I personally found the book distasteful. It perverts everything that made Baum's works so wonderful - completely subverting both the spirit of the original, not to mention the spiritual. On top of that Maguire's writing tended to make me gag. On the whole, the book was far better received by readers who were not familiar with Baum's books. Thank you, Maine Girl, for your very detailed critique of "Hawkes Harbor." I don't know if you're right or not, but Hawkes Harbor sounds dreadful, at least to those readers who are inclined to analyze the finer points.
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just finished it and i did like it. It has DS written all over it even though she did change a few things
and i'm not siure i liked the ending or not! i see some of your points Maine girl but guess i liked it
because it was DS and Willie. it is choppy and jumps around a lot and i quess i'd like to see a review from someone who
never heard of DS and read the book!
what page is the name from DS on I could go back and search but i'm much too tired!
jennifer
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i quess i'd like to see a review from someone who never heard of DS and read the book!
Go to Amazon and type in Hawkes Harbor and look at the section for editorial reviews. Then click on all editorial reviews. Publishers Weekly and Booklist both reviewed it. :)
It made all the trades and a lot of other papers, unfortunately I can't link to them because they're subscription based.