DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '04 II => Topic started by: Julia99 on August 06, 2004, 03:17:57 PM
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Taken from another topic:
another great moment...when vicki gets caught in a storm and is forced to spend the night in josette's room at the old house...when she's asleep barnabas comes into the room and gazes at her longingly...but he cannot bring himself to take her blood.it sums up the complexity of b's character.
you know i don't like to acknowledge this but i think as Julia later said to Barnabas.. "oh you really do love Vicki. ." or some facsimile of that. . . .so B loved
- Josette (im including Kitty here),
- Vicki,
I think he LUSTED after
I also think on a deep level Barnabas loved Julia--what kind of love ..sisterly, somewhat, friendly, definitely, more than that--well that was never fully explored--cancellation interferred with best laid plans. . .
anyone wanna add or modify the list (I didn't include all his meals in the LUST category)
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Other "loves" include Rachel Drummond and Maggie Evans, but I'm not sure if Barnabas 'loved' them as individuals (or if he even thought of them as individuals) or if he was merely drawn to them because each woman resembled dear, lost Josette. When I first watched the series, I kept thinking how superficial and fickle Barnabas was for flitting from one so-called "true love" to another every month. Over time, I came to believe that while he seemed to be pursuing Maggie, Vicki, Rachel, or Kitty in reality he was always chasing Josette and associated her with every brunette ingenue he met. If Maggie, Rachel, etc. were just stand-ins for Josette, then I suppose they belong on the lust list.
However, I don't know how to account for 1840 Roxanne. ::) That match always seemed to be very sudden and far-fetched considering what a wreck Barnabas was after losing Josette in 1795.
ProfStokes
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When I first watched the series, I kept thinking how superficial and fickle Barnabas was for flitting from one so-called "true love" to another every month. Over time, I came to believe that while he seemed to be pursuing Maggie, Vicki, Rachel, or Kitty in reality he was always chasing Josette and associated her with every brunette ingenue he met.
I'm newish to the series but that's the way it seems to me. He switched from Maggie to Vicki in a heartbeat. Maybe he grew to love Vicki on her own merits but his sudden flip-flop didn't seem terribly loving.
I'm kind of curious about Julia's feelings for Barnabas. I suppose she initially lusted for him and that grew to love. He could be so wicked and downright abusive to her in the earlier eps...I don't know how much that changes later. What was it about him that she desired so much. Sure, he was a hottie but he could also be so sexist, abusive and manipulative toward her. I guess she just saw his inner hurt.
Yet, there are a few moments, in the earlier days, that he seems to let down his guard a bit and at least appreciate/respect her. He seemed genuinely touched when she offered her blood to restore his youth but said that he couldn't take her independence. Maybe I'm reading too much into that but it seemed like he really didn't want to see her give up the independence and accomplishments she'd worked so hard to achieve.
Of course, it may have also been foresight on his part---he knew a smart, savvy person could help in the future...or maybe he just wanted to chomp on a girly-girl's neck.
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I think that at first Barnabas was attracted to Roxanne because of her beauty and vulnerability. She was definitely in need of protection. Often times, a man can be very attracted to a 'needy' woman. At first the thrill of being needed by someone is so very appealing. Then, after awhile, the neediness becomes smothering and not so alluring. I personally know several men that have been through that experience!
I think he became attracted to Vicki because of her sweet old fashioned ways. He may have also thought that since she didn't know who her family was, and if she disappeared, it wouldn't be investigated at any great length. I think he really did end up loving her in the long run. But he, like so many of us, learned to love again when he realized that he could never really have her in the way that he wanted.
His feelings for Julia were very complex IMO. He was grateful for the sacrifices she made for him but then he would turn around and be awful to her at the drop of hat showing no appreciation. I'm struck by the way he tenderly carried her into the old house after the attack and settled her gently in the chair. A chair by the way that was directly opposite of the usual chair where he sat. It was as if he knew she belonged there, it was her place in his home. Even if the relationship progressed to a more intimate one, I don't picture it as a 'tear your clothes off' type of thing. It would be one of a gradual buildup in intensity until the desire wouldn't be denied and would be openly acknowledged between them.
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you know i don't like to acknowledge this but i think as Julia later said to Barnabas.. "oh you really do love Vicki. ." or some facsimile of that. . . .so B loved
- Josette (im including Kitty here),
- Vicki,
I think he LUSTED after
Barnabas, ever the insatiable romantic, cared for many people (like Julia, I think he has a heart underneath that complicated fascade). But In the end, I think he was lusting after all those mentioned above (Josette, Kitty, Roxie, Angie, etc...). On the other hand, I do believe he loved the *original* Josette, that she touched his heart unlike anyone he'd met at that time, but beyond that...
Barnabas may have "believed" that he loved each of Josette's and [GAG] Roxanne's reincarnations, but I think if he would've hooked up with any of them, he'd NEVER be able to sustain that fantasy (or a long term relationship with said ladies for that matter). He (a product of his past, past hursts, and a splash of his own selfish tendecies) was desperately holding onto the life he lost in 1795. I believe that only JULIA could've helped him embrace the possibilities of life in the present...and future. Okay, I'll stop now. :D
I also think on a deep level Barnabas loved Julia--what kind of love ..sisterly, somewhat, friendly, definitely, more than that--well that was never fully explored--cancellation interferred with best laid plans. . .
It didn't interfere with fanfiction, though... ;) :-*
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This topic got me to thinking, and several questions popped up. It would seem like he would have 2 great desires after being roused from his slumber... The first would have been satisfied by willies blood, the 2nd, well, he has been couped up for 172 years in the same room , with no female companionship whatsoever, I would think the first place he heads to after arising is the Collinsport docks for a little P & P (plasma and partying for you who was thinking otherwise). OK then he meets his Josette working in the cafe, kidnaps her.. After a few weeks, Maggie escapes, but finds out she is pregnant, and decides to keep the baby, what kind of child would this be? Half Vampire and human?? Would Barnabas have had to travel to 1995 to score some Viagra?? (he is 200 you know) for his partying with the ladies of 1968? How would Maggie explain away her kids mouthful of k9 teeth? Would she question why her little girl always wore her hair with the fang bangs? When she was older and in acting school, would she forget her lines, but make it seem that it was the other actor that screwed up? (( ok ok way to much time on my hands i know ;) ))
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(rainey howls laughing..... ;D )
Gee, tripwire.....if the gang that produced the WB DS/2004 pilot had had YOUR script.....we all might have been celebrating this September...... ;)
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I think the original 1795 Barnabas (before the vamp thing) was a typical product of his time. He also had a terrific female influence in his life - his lovely mother Naomi. Barnabas may have lusted after Angelique but I believed he genuinely loved Josette as she really did represent many of the qualities of his mother, she was kind, gracious, somewhat immature but you could see the potential of a generous and gracious nature. Essentially Barnabas made the best decision and I never felt money or status influenced him that much though it's obvious Angelique had a tougher time of it than Josette did.
After recently watching the post Josette death and Barnabas' reaction I think he went somewhat mad with grief and probably guilt had much to do with it. Realistically, people often change after experiencing such trauma and it does seem that even with the vamp thing Barnabas probably never recovered from it. As a romantic, idealistic and sensual person and having felt Josette rejected him at the end his pursuance of innocent ingenue types, that always seemed very asexual to me, made sense. He did like and respect Vickie, and why not? she was a nice and respectable person. Maggie looked just like Josette so that was the story there. I never saw Roxanne. As much as I loath Julia Hoffman I have to admit it also makes sense Barnabas could have experienced some sort of sanity and peace in her company, maybe because she was so different from Josette. Josette should have been the one and that was the horrible tragedy of his life but he could exist, at least, with Julia Hoffman. My two cents.
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I think that Vicky was his ONE true Love:)...Barnabas always seemed to avoid trying to hurt her either as a Vampire or human...but when it came to Maggie Evans whether as a Vampire or human at times he could still be cruel and selfish towards her ...for the most part I would say it was more lust ..True in 1795 he seemed to be in Love with his Josette but again I think Vicky really brought out the tenderness and real Love in Barnabas .
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I'm kind of curious about Julia's feelings for Barnabas. I suppose she initially lusted for him and that grew to love. He could be so wicked and downright abusive to her in the earlier eps...I don't know how much that changes later. What was it about him that she desired so much. Sure, he was a hottie but he could also be so sexist, abusive and manipulative toward her. I guess she just saw his inner hurt.
I've commented on this before but for the newbies. . Grayson said publically that she used Julia being inlove with Barnabas as a subtext for her character, who seemed rather dull to her. She acted it, it wasn't scripted--then folks caught on and they ran with it. I think, for me anyway, Julia's original feelings grew out of a possesiveness for her "pet science project". When he started revealing his past to her --the feeling became deeper and complex ..of course then he tried to drive her insane and kill her. . .it was a 'thin line' like she said. Eventually they became quite good friends, companions and Barnabas couldn't function without her--a fact recognized by Dan Curtis who wouldn't kill off Julia Hoffman even though Sam Hall suggested it as a way to continue the show when it appeared B&J had gone everywhere and done what they could in the family's past .. .
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vicki brought out the tender,human side of barnabas.josette was his great love but i think he was fond of vicki like no one else.
it doesn't seem like he ever really "loved" maggie.he abducted her because she resembled josette but was cruel to her from the start.there was never affection,only manipulation,between them.then he loses iterest in her entirely.
his feelings towards julia changed almost overnight.just before the 1795 story he was about to kill her.when they return to the present she becomes his friend and confidant during the dr.lang/adam story.i don't think he returns the feelings julia has for him but relies on her as a confidant.
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a fact recognized by Dan Curtis who wouldn't kill off Julia Hoffman even though Sam Hall suggested it as a way to continue the show when it appeared B&J had gone everywhere and done what they could in the family's past .. .
I remember this being discussed on the other list. Frankly, that would've been *terrible*. Glad they didn't do that.
I mean (for all the pro-Julia fanfiction writers)...how many stories could you come up with involving Julia coming back from the dead? LOL ;)
Well, there's still that TV Guide article...thank god. ;D
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I think Barnabas came to love Maggie, but not in a really romantic sort of way; it was probably more complex. It came, IMO, from a mixture of guilt for what he tried to do to her, and admiration for her devotion to the Collins family once she moved in, especially regarding the way she tried to protect David and Amy from Quentin's horrific ghost. And throw in her similarity with Josette. His love for her was one based more on a developing and evolving affectionate friendship, even a protective paternalism, reflected in his commenting on how "fond" he always was of her.
Gerard
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I think Barnabas came to love Maggie, but not in a really romantic sort of way; it was probably more complex. It came, IMO, from a mixture of guilt for what he tried to do to her, and admiration for her devotion to the Collins family once she moved in, especially regarding the way she tried to protect David and Amy from Quentin's horrific ghost. And throw in her similarity with Josette. His love for her was one based more on a developing and evolving affectionate friendship, even a protective paternalism, reflected in his commenting on how "fond" he always was of her.
I would agree with that except that during the Adam story,
[spoiler]he wanted Maggie to provide the life force for Adam's mate and was quite insistent on it.[/spoiler]
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In my opinion Barnabas Collins' only deeply abiding love affair was with his own self-preservation. In order to avoid either the stake-in-the-heart OR the chain-on-the-casket he was willing to, and often DID allow the death or misery of those around him. Especially the women.
How many time did he ever say "I love you" as opposed to how many times he said "he/she/it MUST be DESTROYED!"?
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::) I always felt that Angelique was Barn's true love. She certainly knew him the longest and didn't really give up----having done some nasty things. But I think Josette was his social equal; Maggie was a replacement; Roxanne wasn't on long enough to judge; Julia was a beloved friend (Barn's point of view); Vickie didn't return his affection,in the same way, and I thought he let her go without much ado; Angelique was the one he turned to for help--even to spare the lives of his other ladies. And, of course, when she finally gave up trying ----------don't want to be a spoiler. I've watched the complete series several times and I always come away with the same impression.
Misty
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In my opinion Barnabas Collins' only deeply abiding love affair was with his own self-preservation. In order to avoid either the stake-in-the-heart OR the chain-on-the-casket he was willing to, and often DID allow the death or misery of those around him. Especially the women.
How many time did he ever say "I love you" as opposed to how many times he said "he/she/it MUST be DESTROYED!"?
I think we should now seal this topic because Rainey spoken the absolute TRUTH. . .
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In my opinion Barnabas Collins' only deeply abiding love affair was with his own self-preservation. In order to avoid either the stake-in-the-heart OR the chain-on-the-casket he was willing to, and often DID allow the death or misery of those around him. Especially the women.
How many time did he ever say "I love you" as opposed to how many times he said "he/she/it MUST be DESTROYED!"?
With all due respect... I wholeheartedly DISAGREE. Watching the entire series with a fine tooth comb (like all of you out there), I know what you guys mean about Barnabas...he wasn't all sweetness and light by any stretch of the imagination...he could be a downright bastard when he wanted (or was driven) to be. However, That character is a lot more complex than one who wishes to destroy... sorry.
Back in my corner,
Heather
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With all due respect... I wholeheartedly DISAGREE. Watching the entire series with a fine tooth comb (like all of you out there), I know what you guys mean about Barnabas...he wasn't all sweetness and light by any stretch of the imagination...he could be a downright bastard when he wanted (or was driven) to be. However, That character is a lot more complex than one who wishes to destroy... sorry.
I thought he treated Maggie the worst of all the women. She was entirely expendable and he never hesitated to put her life on the line if he had to. Her resemblance to Josette aside, I think he looked down on her station in life. The daughter of an alcholic father with no money or connections to speak of. But I agree, the man was such a complex character. He was in a constant fight against the evil side of his nature trying to take him over. This is why his story is so fascinating IMO.
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Well. ..he did give a little, i stress a little but only 'cuz of his own self-interest or lust. . .for Josette, Vicki or Kitty. The only selfless things he did were for Vicki (not biting her and going back in time to save her from execution). ..all other actions were motivated to save his own sorry behind. . .not that i don't enjoy watching it but let's be real, Barnabas was a selfish son-of-a--you know the rest. And that does not robe him (for his lusty admirrers) of his romantic aura. . if you look at the great romantic heros of literature .. they are mostly all in the same vein.
::) :P :-*
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I never liked the Maggie/Barnabas in love angle of the Leviatian storyline. It came out of nowhere-prior to 1897, Maggie never showed any interest in Barnabas.
[spoiler]During Leviathan, When Josette's ghost tells Barnabas she is at peace and he is to move on with his life, giving her ring back to him, what does Barnabas do? He gives it to Maggie, the current Josette lookalike![/spoiler]
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i'm with Rainey Barnabas wasn't really good to any of his
"women" he loved SYT 's, a lot like Bill Clinton, but that doesn't mean
we can't "like" him Hell i'd vote for Clinton again!
jennifer
there is somethin about "bad" men ;D
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I think part of his horrid attitude toward Maggie can be attributed, though, to the initial intent of having him just be a temporary character. He was the most vile toward her and, has been pointed out, even looked down upon her because of her station in life.
Once he became popular and female fans wrote letters offering him their necks (and them some! :o) there was little choice but to keep him along and try to redeem him some.
Of course, he could still be nasty but, well, his early treatment of Maggie was utterly diabolical.
Kind of neat how he was so snobbish toward Maggie yet when we see him in the past, he's busy trying to teach Ben Stokes (great character is Ben, btw) letters and writing.
It's right about him being like a romantic hero though. He is v. Bronte-esque to me. All dark, sexy, and troubled with outlandish mood swings...while not being conventionally handsome or charming (just handsome & charming in his own bizarre way).
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Well. ..he did give a little, i stress a little but only 'cuz of his own self-interest or lust. . .for Josette, Vicki or Kitty. The only selfless things he did were for Vicki (not biting her and going back in time to save her from execution). ..all other actions were motivated to save his own sorry behind. . .not that i don't enjoy watching it but let's be real, Barnabas was a selfish son-of-a--you know the rest. And that does not robe him (for his lusty admirrers) of his romantic aura. . if you look at the great romantic heros of literature .. they are mostly all in the same vein. ::) :P :-*
You *know* you love it when I get riled up, doncha J99? ;) :-*
Yes, Barnabas could be a total ass sometimes...but then, what man have you known hasn't? [NO offense meant to any fellas on the board out there - just trying to make a point - you guys rock] ;) The thing that I like about this character is that, despite his flaws, he has a heart underneath it all. A troubled heart, but it's there nonetheless. Throughout the series, he is in a constant struggle with good and evil...both external and internal. That continuing struggle (to maintain some semblance of humanity) is what makes the character attractive to all us nuts out here... :D
And as far as his being selfish is concerned...and I won't deny that he IS many a time (yes, his treatment of Maggie and several other women wasn't too kind at times)...there are several instances when he could've just stayed bundled up like a warm cinnamon roll in front of the fireplace in the Old House Drawing room (now there's a visual - LOL), but he didn't. When things came up, he usually noticed and dealt with it as best he could...often with Julia's persuasion and help, of course (no naughty pun intended, you wenches out there... ;))
Even when he was first turned into a vampire, he cared very much what happened to his sister, his mother, and Ben. The changes he went through are part of what made the character so interesting; including that struggle to maintain an ounce of humanity, his rage, the joy in revenge, the fear of exposure, the need to control when he first reemerged. Once he was able to walk in the daylight again, the almost constant theme was how he was sticking his neck out and putting his buns on the line for someone else.
He did everything he could to keep the family safe and nearly died more than once because of it. [I know, one could argue that the Collins family was too much of a priority for Barnabas at times...I've thought that myself. But keep in mind that he was an 18th century guy--with all those notions of honor and what his priorities should be (including that inbred and post-tramatic tendency to go after all those SYT's :( ); trying to find peace in a time and worlds alien to him]
Tom Jennings almost took him out when he went to the crypt to stake him and save Julia. If it hadn't been for the sun coming up, Barnabas would have been in deep trouble. Willie even said how Barnabas had changed. In the scene where he's been bitten by the bat again at the end of the dream curse, he and Julia are standing by the grave they dug and Willie says, "He was so different, ever since I came back this time." Later on, those three characters are like a family trying to keep their heads above water (okay, they were dysfunctional clan, but still...LOL)
Another example...If he only cared about himself, then why did he I-Ching back to 1897 to prevent David from dying? Why did he risk his life to save Chris? During that point in time, he was human and safe and sound living in the Old House.
Barnabas definitely had good in him. A lot of it. Could he still be blind as a bat and insensitive...YUP. He definitely deserved a nice slap upside the head on more than a few occasions...that thick Collins skull, ya know (LOL). ;) Although it can often seem futile, patience is a virtue when dealing with Barnabas. And IMHO, Julia wouldn't have cared about and come to love a complete jerk - she had much better taste than that. ;D
Okay, I'm a typical Gemini...Love Grayson and Barnabas (despite his eccentricities) all at the same time. Are ya ready to whip me with my T-square at high noon yet...? ;) LOL
Wait--I got a better idea. I'm gonna go make me a batch of de-luxe brownies[/b]...I feel calmer already (chuckle). Anyone want one? I make em with extra cocoa (the baking variety, that is). Tastyyyyy... ;) :-*
Love ya you evil thing you,
Heather
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Heather. You have said it so perfectly. Wow!
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I think the thrust and angles of Barnabas' character may be due to Frids' (as someone else said in tihs discussion) popularity and the scrambling of "rewriting" character to suit a growing female fanbase. First he was a baaad vampire to be quickly written off, then as his popularity soared and JF's acting talent recognized Barnabas became a romantic but still baad vampire, then in 1795 it was explained why he was baad.
Its understandable that this emotional and romantic man who seemed very gentle and considerate in 1795 would turn into a hardened ego-centric vampire/person while lying in a coffin for over a 100 years after murdering dozens of woman because of an affair he had with his fiancee's maid and witnessing his family dropping off like flies because of it. I feel Barnabas changed from what he originally was before he became a vampire and even when he was turned back into a human (how many times did that happen?) he still retained some of those hardened characteristics.
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I just read Heather's long and fascinating post about Barnabas and I must say....BRAVO!!! Now I think I'll add my own two cents (equally as long and maybe even more!)
There's no denying Barnabas could be really selfish and awful at times but he was also a lot more selfless than people give him credit for.
Barnabas did treat Maggie really awful especially when [spoiler]he wanted to turn her into Josette and she kept refusing to give in. And I agree he was totally in the wrong for deciding that she should be the sacrificial lamb in the experiment to create a mate for Adam, the man who was at least partially responsible for her Pop's death. But you know once Maggie replaced Vicki as David's governess, I think Barnabas did grow fond of her and grew to care for her. Notice how panic-stricken he was when Maggie went missing for a couple of episodes during the Leviathan story (Jeb had abducted her and placed her in the late Sheriff Davenport's "custody.")
Barnabas also really treated Julia badly when she was trying to cure him in 1967....he was always so suspicious of her that he felt he had to throttle her whenever she didn't tell him every little detail of what was happening around Collinwood everyday. Once the curse is removed that first time after 1795, he does treat Julia much better (hey he stopped wanting to throttle her and that's definitely a big improvement in my book!) and grew to care for her very much. Unfortunately though he did seem to take her for granted at times, especially when he was lusting for whichever SYT that was in his life at the time. (Frankly, I don't know what he ever saw in Roxanne....Julia was much more attractive than her IMO). However I remember when he found out Julia had betrayed him in 1995 to the sheriff....she told him to go back to 1970 without her and he refused. "Never without you", he says. Such a wonderful moment of tenderness from Barnabas towards Julia....and when Julia went missing in 1840, thanks to Angelique and vamp Roxanne, Barnabas was so frantic to find her.[/spoiler]
Heather already named his other selfless deeds, so I won't repeat it.
Barnabas wasn't perfect, he had a lot of flaws and faults like everyone else, but that's what makes him such a fascinating character to watch. If Barnabas WAS perfect, would we all be talking about him?
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When I was a kid and DS was all the rage, I was fascinated with the character beyond bellief (well, not beyond belief here on this board). I thought he was handsome too. However, I did not at any time want the man in my house either as a human being or a vampire. I didn't fault Barnabas for being screwed up in the head as anyone who had been through what he had would be messed up. As much as I liked the courtly manners (when he wasn't strangling someone) and the vocal qualities of the character, in really thinking about it I could not imagine myself going on a roller coaster or to the beach even with the human Barnabas. Even if I could, his penchant for having Plan B ready (that meant killing someone) if Plan A didn't work out was not romantic enough for me to develop that kind of crush on the character.
Maybe I'm just old but being strangled has never appealed to me.
Nancy
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I agree with what someone said about Angelique. I think she was his one true love, which he finally admitted to in 1840. I always believed his oft-spoken "love" for Josette was something he made himself believe. Theirs was not a true love match, IMO. It was a business alliance between two powerful shipping families. In fact, that was alluded to:
[spoiler]when Andre and Joshua were discussing it in the drawing room of the Old House, they mentioned how beneficial this marriage between their two children would be to their financial holdings.[/spoiler]
As proof, how about when Angelique first came to Collinwood? Barnabas kept trying to put her off, yet ...
[spoiler]when he went to her room, he couldn't resist her and kissed her passionately.[/spoiler]
Some may say that was lust, but I believe it really was love. And after all was said and done, no matter what Angelique did, he always needed her.
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When I was a kid and DS was all the rage, I was fascinated with the character beyond bellief (well, not beyond belief here on this board).
;D
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I don't necessarily have the hots for Barn per say... I love both B & J. [coughing]
And being one who's experienced abuse first hand, I would never, ever, in a million years, condone that....
I just think Barn., like all people, has it within him to grow and develop as a character and as a person...
xo
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Was there anybody else on the show who, once he or she got to be a vampire, didn't want to be? Angelique didn't want to be, but it wasn't because of any ethical issues; she just didn't want to be tied down to the craving. She found lots of other fine ways to hurt people when she wasn't a vampire. Tom Jennings, originally a nice, ordinary guy (I believe Joe mentioned that Maggie dated him way back when), embraced being a vampire with unbridled enthusiasm. And so on. Becoming a Dark Shadows vampire causes radical personality changes, and some of them may not be entirely reversible even when the subject is cured.
I haven't seen all the Dark Shadows vampires, but I never hear about one, other than Barnabas, who wanted out, and I do remember the specific offer being made to one of them, who turned it down. It must have taken extraordinary strength of character for Barnabas to want to be human again. What would have happened to Julia if the vampire whom she lured to her bedroom had been anybody other than Barnabas? Golly, she didn't even have a cross in her pocket just in case!
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I think that's a distinct possibility as well! >:D
Nancy
(rainey howls laughing..... ;D )
Gee, tripwire.....if the gang that produced the WB DS/2004 pilot had had YOUR script.....we all might have been celebrating this September...... ;)
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Can you PM me some of those, Heather? :o
Nancy
Wait--I got a better idea. I'm gonna go make me a batch of de-luxe brownies[/b]...I feel calmer already (chuckle). Anyone want one? I make em with extra cocoa (the baking variety, that is). Tastyyyyy... ;) :-*
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Just because he didn't say "I love you" doesn't mean he didn't have loving feelings for someone. Julia never said to Barnabas she loved him but she did. ;D
Nancy
How many time did he ever say "I love you" as opposed to how many times he said "he/she/it MUST be DESTROYED!"?