DARK SHADOWS FORUMS

General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '26 I => Current Talk '15 I => Topic started by: Watching Project on March 26, 2015, 06:28:30 PM

Title: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: Watching Project on March 26, 2015, 06:28:30 PM

Quote from: ROBINV on April 27, 2003, 01:03:12 PM

Robservations #0911

And if you'd care to look back, the first WP discussion topic for this ep:

Quote from: Lydia on January 13, 2010, 05:58:21 AM

Re: Discuss - Ep #0911

Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: Joeytrom on March 27, 2015, 02:09:40 PM

I'll correct my previous statement of the Leviathans causing everyone to remember Quentin's ghost to that of Barnabas causing/influencing the Leviathans to do it, it as he perceives Quentin as a threat to their plans.

Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: DarkLady on March 27, 2015, 02:26:50 PM

Poor David freaks out when he wakes up out of a sound sleep and realizes that Quentin has come back. "Grant" still wants answers from Julia.

After his shock, David goes downstairs, expecting to see the ghostly Quentin materialize at any moment. He hides in the drawing room and watches in terror through a crack in the doors as Julia leads Grant Douglas downstairs and out of the house. As he sees the man’s face, he realizes he is seeing Quentin Collins--a very corporeal Quentin Collins.

Just outside the doors, Quentin again demands a full explanation. Julia promises to give him one. David listens from just inside in amazement as Julia addresses the man as “Mr. Douglas.” I’m sorry I couldn’t more helpful, she says. So am I, he replies. He walks away from the house. (In a storm? This ep. aired in December 1969. And how did he get back to town if Julia drove him to Collinwood? Or did he suddenly acquire a car?) As David waits for Julia to go upstairs ahead of him, he remembers. Grant Douglas was in the accident--Carolyn met him at the antique shop. But why does he look so much like Quentin? And how can he without _being_ Quentin?

The Todds are out when Julia arrives at the antique shop the next day. She questions Alexander without much success. Elizabeth brings David and Amy to the shop for a play date. Amy makes two mistakes: She calls Alexander "Alex" and picks up a doll. Alexander tells her she can't play with it because it's for sale. When he reaches for it, Julia notices that he has the same red crescent-shaped birthmark as the baby did. Elizabeth assures her that the kids will be all right without adult supervision. Julia reluctantly leaves with her.

Dr. Hoffman is nosy, Alexander comments in annoyance. Amy makes her third mistake when she spots the photo of young Carolyn. Give it back, Alexander orders her. David looks frightened. You stole it, Amy guesses. You have a crush on Carolyn! she adds with a giggle. Alexander orders David to get the photo. David tries to persuade Amy. Alexander took the photo without asking, she points out. As Alexander starts toward Amy, David holds him back and says, Wait, I’ll get it. Amy comments, I don’t understand why you’re afraid of Alexander--you’re bigger than he is. David might be about to explain, but Alexander gives Amy a look that would kill her if looks could kill.

Elizabeth leads Julia to the storage room, which is actually Quentin’s outer room. I’m still thinking about Alexander, Julia says. The way he looked at me when I left the shop makes me think that somehow he knew he had outsmarted me. You just haven’t been around children enough, Elizabeth says. You’re treating Alexander like an adult. Julia feels compelled to offer some advice: Don’t let Amy and David play with Alexander. Elizabeth is amazed. Julia says, I don’t think Alexander has any friends. I don’t know why I feel so strongly about it, but I do. Paul was very upset the day Alexander was at Collinwood, she reminds Elizabeth. I hope you aren’t taking Paul’s wild stories seriously, Elizabeth says. Julia replies, At this point I don’t know what to believe--which is very unusual for me. She steps over to the paintings, not noticing how Elizabeth glowers at her.

Back at the shop, Amy still refuses to give Alexander the photo of young Carolyn. David warns her, If you don’t do as Alexander says, I’ll send Quentin after you. Amy whirls around in shock, protesting, Quentin is gone! No, he isn’t, David says. I heard his music. Would like to see him?Frightened now, Amy says, I don’t believe you! I’ll tell if you scare me! She runs into the back room and shuts the door. David smiles and asks Alexander to follow her and keep her in there for a few minutes. Alexander complies. David picks up a book with a red tag clipped to it, picks up the phone, and starts dialing.

Julia finds a painting that is almost identical to the one she bought at the antique shop. But this one is signed: Harrison Monroe 1968. I bought this one at a charity auction last year, Elizabeth says. Despite the undercurrent of menace in the air, the two women share a laugh when Elizabeth tells Julia, Roger told me to come right up here with it! May I show the painting to Professor Stokes? Julia asks. Elizabeth says go ahead. What’s so important about Charles Tate? she asks. Julia tells her that Professor Osmund said he died ten years ago--there must be some explanation.

Amy and Alexander have emerged from the back room. Alexander gives David the book with the red tag, which we can now see says to return it to Grant Douglas. David insists that Amy play hide and seek because Alexander wants to. I’m too old, Amy declares, Don’t try to scare me with Quentin again. I won’t, David replies, if you’ll shut her eyes and start counting. Amy closes her eyes and starts to count. David gestures to Alexander to go upstairs. David hides near the front of the shop. Amy finishes counting to ten and calls out, Ready or not, here I come. She opens her eyes to start looking--at the exact moment that Grant Douglas opens the shop door to reclaim his book. Poor Amy is frozen with terror. She calls to David. Grant smiles pleasantly and comes closer, but Amy backs away from him, screaming, Don’t let him get me, David! David, please! She runs upstairs, leaving Grant very puzzled. David emerges and says they’re just having a game. You should go after her, Quentin suggests. You seem to have frightened her, David comments innocently. Quentin stares at him. You’re David Collins, he guesses. David says yes, adding, I called you about the book. Is the little girl is also a Collins? Quentin asks. Her name is Amy Jennings, David replies. She just lives at Collinwood. Well, David Collins, you are a most unusual young man, Grant tells him. He takes the book and leaves, thus ending his first meeting with his great-granddaughter. David smiles triumphantly.

Meanwhile, Amy is in the upstairs hall, getting closer to Alexander’s bedroom. She’s thoroughly frightened and calls to David for help. David, make him go away! she pleads. You win--wherever you are! Suddenly she starts to hear the slow, heavy breathing. Even more frightened now, she tells David, I won’t let you frighten me! She opens the door and steps into the bedroom. She brings both hands up to her mouth in horror at what she sees and screams over and over and over.....

Here is a note I made in trying to figure a few things out:

[spoiler][So why did Julia and “Grant Douglas” find Quentin’s room intact? Well, because Barnabas has changed history after all. Quentin never died, and in the changed 1897 story, Trask’s ghost never inhabited the room. Quentin’s ghost had survived because he had never resolved his guilt about being a murderous werewolf; under his sanctimony Trask was a murderer and then a suicide, pure and simple, so his soul is damned to eternal hell and doesn’t roam the earth, let alone haunt Quentin’s room. As we saw in 1897, Judith phoned Tim and told him to remove the brick wall after Trask died. Perhaps Tim insured himself and buried Trask’s body so that Judith couldn’t implicate him (Tim) if she later had a change of heart and confessed her guilt. (Or maybe he didn’t, and even in the changed 1969 story, the children still found Trask’s skeleton and buried it.) Perhaps Tim also moved Quentin’s Victrola back to his room as part of the coverup. Quentin wouldn’t miss it because he never returned to Collinwood after leaving for New York to find Amanda Harris--at least not until 1969. As for Amanda’s seemingly indestructible portrait, Tate did make a lot of drawings and portraits of her; and his portraits of her and of Quentin seem to be self-healing. The only thing left unexplained is the whereabouts of the I Ching wands. Petofi was the last person to have them, and they were in Tate’s studio at the time of the fire, so they couldn’t have been in Quentin’s room for Barnabas to find. On the other hand, perhaps in the original story, there was no fire, because Petofi never revived Garth Blackwood, and Petofi never found them.][/spoiler]

Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: MagnusTrask on March 28, 2015, 01:17:20 AM

(I'll have to give that a second pass later, DL gouyt 3/4 through it and brain went tilt.... well done, too thorough for my brain today...)

Joan Bennett VO.  In Quentin's old room, with Julia, we see a brief moment of the old Quentin, when he grabs her by the arm and gets coercive, though he relaxes his grip immediately.  Alexander took human form with a missing front tooth, for some reason.  David Jay had to keep from smiling when he was ordering Henesy around, I think.  This part must have been a bully's dream come true...  Alexander is evil, yet wears a tie.  Propriety comes first, when destroying the world...

Quentin (I know, 'Grant Douglas') walks into the antique shop.  Denise N does a great job of being terrified.  Why isn't David scared?  Fortified by Leviathan evil?  Maybe Julia explained about G Douglas to him, but I didn't think he bought it.  Amy sees the Leviathan!

Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: dom on March 28, 2015, 02:15:49 AM

David saw and overheard Julia talking to GQ at Collinwood. I think it's in the fourth quarter. ;)

Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: MagnusTrask on March 28, 2015, 02:57:35 AM

Thanks, dom.  I remember that part, but it didn't seem enough to inform David, but just confuse him.  If it had been me, I wouldn't have lost all sense of fear and danger about Q, because of that.

Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: dom on March 28, 2015, 04:19:55 AM

Well, one thing's for sure, everyone remember's Quentin's ghost.

Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: Patti Feinberg on March 30, 2015, 05:35:33 PM

Everyone EXCEPT Grant....

Creepy eps...Barn being so mean-spirited.

Poor Amy...two against one.

Liz to Julia at antique shop, where the kids are already fighting: "Sure, it's okay to leave youngish kids unattended, especially when they're being mean to Amy, plus all these expensive antiques, yeah, it's fine".

Why (I don't believe it was addressed) did Megan & Philip leave dear, sweet F**CK face Allie (yuck yuck) alone...he was 'young' and could have hurt himself.

I don't know if I sense of 'crush' from Stokes to Julia, perhaps, but, I think Stokes appreciates having someone with intellect plus a sense of curiousity, as he has.

Oh Lawdy, lawdy, yeah, we won't be seeing 'Alex', but worse is coming.

Creepy, creepy....Liz, Barn and David.

Don't 'overthink' the Quentin not dying/haunting Collinwood....remember the huge holes that the 1967 seance which sent Vicki to 1795....Phyllis Wickes....remember, it's a soap-opera, dead people come and go; there isn't a great deal of continuit with that, and that is not by any means just a DS thing.

Patti

Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: DarkLady on March 31, 2015, 02:55:44 PM

Thanks, Patti! It's like the Mystery Science Theater 3000 theme song says: Just think to yourself, it's a TV show, I should really just relax!  [snow_smiley]

Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: MagnusTrask on April 01, 2015, 09:35:24 AM

How I see it, for what it's worth-- Causes and effects are a basic part of any plot.  It interferes with suspension of disbelief if they screw those things up.  I don't really thing of there being anything "just" about the medium of TV.  Continuity is competence.  A genuinely bad show, who cares about continuity, but for a show to be so good in so many areas and then push you away with sloppy contradictions, that's hard to put up with.  Those "just a show" programs, I don't watch those.

Very little details are exceptions, unimportant.

Title: Re: Discuss - Ep #0911
Post by: Mysterious Benefactor on May 01, 2015, 08:18:46 PM

I love how in this ep you can see Julia's mind working when she finds Alexander alone at the shop:

(http://www.dsboards.com/images/ds_0911-1.jpg)

And then how her whole demeanor changes when she decides to try to get info out of him:

(http://www.dsboards.com/images/ds_0911-2.jpg)

(And it's nice that they finally gave her a decent coat - too bad she'll probably never be seen wearing it again...)