DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '15 I => Topic started by: Watching Project on February 20, 2015, 03:20:08 AM
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Robservations #888
And if you'd care to look back, the first WP discussion topic for this ep:Re: Discuss - Ep #0888
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This episode was actually mainly in tune to a regular soap opera storyline as in the first year of DS. They should have continued the Paul Stoddard storyline in this manner separate from Leviathan.
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Joey, it still would have been interesting if they had. But DC somehow got his hands on H. P. Lovecraft's Leviathan stories, and the rest is history. *sigh* But as always, I do like how the writers set up the story for us.
Welcome back, Dennis Patrick and Marie Wallace! And welcome, Christopher Bernau!
Poor Julia has been waiting patiently for Barn to re-materialize. Carolyn tells her that sometimes Chris Jennings seems like two different people. Julia makes a noncommittal reply, then Carolyn takes her to the "divine" antique shop in town, where she introduces Julia to the proprietors, Megan and Philip Todd. (Unfortunately, Philip is wearing a maroon self-belted turtleneck sweater and gray windowpane plaid trousers, but after all it was 1969.)
Julia is amazed to find that one of the Todds' new items is a landscape by Charles Delaware Tate, painted 20 years ago. Julia’s amazement increases at the thought that Charles Delaware Tate, in his late twenties in 1897, went on painting for another fifty years. (Presumably Petofi had no chance to withdraw his gift of talent before Garth Blackwood attacked him and started the fire.) Philip draws her attention to the lack of age crackling in the glaze; the subject is modern, but the canvas is not. Since Tate would be about a hundred years old if he is still alive, he was in control of his faculties in his eighties, Philip comments. It’s not inconceivable that he could still be alive, Julia observes. Philip says he found the painting at the Anderson auction house in Rockport, and will sell it to Julia for three hundred dollars. Julia promptly fishes out her checkbook while Carolyn watches in surprise. Once they leave, Megan and Philip have Champagne to celebrate their first big sale. (In 1969 dollars, it would have been a significant one.)
Julia phones the Anderson auction house. They tell her the painting was part of the estate of Matthew Smith. There were no other Tate paintings, but someone else tried to buy hers. She asks who, but we don’t know what answer she gets. After she hangs up, she thinks to herself. I must find out if Tate is still alive. Somehow the portrait of Quentin saved him from the werewolf curse. If Tate is still alive, he may be able to help Chris Jennings.
Walking through the woods, Carolyn comes on the cairn-altar with its snake-carved stele. What is it? she asks herself, Where did it come from? No one could have built it without the family’s knowledge. The stranger steps into the clearing, startling her. We can now see that he has gray hair and a gray mustache. He is somewhere in his fifties, trim, and still fine looking. Courteously he takes off his hat to speak to her and promises not to harm her. Carolyn is frightened, more so when she recognizes him as the stranger from the Old House. He moves to the opposite end of the altar and promises to stay there. What do you want? Carolyn asks. I’m not sure, he replies. Haughtily, Carolyn tells him, You’re trespassing on Collins property. I advise you to leave. Are you a Collins? he asks, and she introduces herself as Carolyn Collins Stoddard. The heiress of Collinwood, she has almost unlimited wealth and power at her command. Her assured, regal bearing is very like her mother’s; her golden hair cascades down her shoulders and back in a long, shining fall. The stranger stares at this lovely young woman, speechless, even when Carolyn addresses him once or twice. Gazing at her with a strange fondness, he recovers and tells her, You’re a very beautiful woman. Carolyn refuses to be flattered and orders him to leave. Not the least offended, he replies, And I like your attitude. You know what is yours. I would be willing to wager that you would be willing to fight to keep it. You’ve read me well, she admits. I hope we will meet again, the stranger says politely. Don’t count on it, she says rudely. The stranger replies mildly, Yes, well, you don't know me. I am counting on it. He walks past Carolyn to leave, but she moves to keep the altar between them.
Megan and Philip are still jubilant over the success of their day, but suddenly all the happiness seems to drain away from Megan’s face. She pulls down the door and window shades and locks the door as Philip watches in surprise. She is agitated, and at first he misreads her mood. Then he realizes that something is troubling her. I’ve had a premonition, she tells him. Something terrible is going to happen to us if we stay. We should sell the shop and leave Collinsport. But we just bought the shop, Philip reminds her. He holds her close as he tells her, Don’t let one fleeting thought spoil everything. I’m sure we’ll be a big success. But even in his arms, Megan still seems frightened.
The stranger returns to the clearing with the altar. He stares at it for a moment, touches it, then hurries away. A moment later, the altar splits down the middle, and the two halves separate......
[The identity of the mysterious stranger is revealed in the closing credits, spoiling the surprise that awaits Carolyn and others at Collinwood.]
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Any opinions on our knowing that it is Paul Stoddard that is back in town before the characters do? It does add a different element to the reveal - our anxiously waiting for them to find out - our knowing something they don't, etc. - as opposed to us all finding out and being surprised at the same time?
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At the time of the first airing, newer viewers who didn't see the Jason McGuire episodes may not have known who Paul Stoddard actually was. I had already known beforehand as I read it in the zines in the mid 80's.
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My first viewing started with the arrival of Barnabas, so I knew about Paul, but was completely surprised to learn that this was him--although of course I was amused at his resemblance to the late, unlamented Jason McGuire. [snow_smiley]
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Watching it originally, I felt somewhat cheated by knowing it was Paul before the characters did. I feel differently now. Intentionally or not, it's a good example of suspense versus shock. I do not feel the same way about the upcoming screen credit for a certain Unknown Man. [snow_rolleyes]
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Would that unknown man be the Leviathan Barnabas speaks with, who isn't Oberon? I recall there wasn't any screen credit for any of the actors that day.
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[spoiler]No, I was referring to the upcoming return of David Selby, who is billed as Unknown Man.[/spoiler]
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Good for Julia, confronting the skulker like that. I often wonder what it's like being smaller and slighter, surrounded by clearly more powerful people, looking far up just to see in their faces, especially in Nancy Barrett/ David Selby scenes...
I guess it does make perfect sense to expect Barnabas to reappear in the spot where he vanished. I wondered why she thought that in my notes.
Welcome, antique shop, and unaffected Megan and Phillip Todd. Tate's name and work pop up. I guess Julia instantly thought of using Tate to help Chris the moment his name came up... Carolyn is utterly flummoxed by her Tate interest. She's certainly seen much weirder stuff than that, but then again, she's probably forgotten it all....
[spoiler] Carolyn has never seen a picture of her father, I guess.[/spoiler]
Tense Cairn music is on an obviously scratchy record. It opens by itself, end.
From DL: "the lack of age crackling in the glaze; the subject is modern, but the canvas is not." I missed that. So Julia thinks it might be... not Q's portrait since it's too small. A piece of it? Or a trail of bread crumbs to follow? Did she even get caught up about Q's portrait in 1897?
As for Tate's talent, it's a confused issue right now. He had a painting career before ever meeting Petofi... he just wasn't great. The painting we see is not meant to strike us as great. Tate did lose the ability even to hold a brush steady when Petofi took his gift away, but that's Petofi being a vindictive sledge hammer. He overdid it.
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Petofi had to restore at least some of Charles's talent when he ordered him to (literally) draw Garth Blackwood back to life. So I guess some of it still remains. But it seems Blackwood was the last portrait he ever drew and he's stuck to landscapes ever since. I for one don't blame him.
I'm sure Elizabeth got rid of every reminder of Paul after [spoiler]she thought she'd killed him[/spoiler].
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Petofi restored Charles' talent in Ep #876. [snow_smiley] In fact, in the ep Petofi says in as many words: "I've been considering your request that I restore your talent. Since you cooperated with me by showing me the way to the future, I've decided you redeemed yourself completely. You shall be a great painter again." And after Petofi takes Charles' hand in his magical hand, he says "You are beginning to feel like THE Charles Delaware Tate again, aren't you? So you are, my boy. So you are." And then Charles gleefully realizes "It's true. It's true. I do feel the same. I have the gift again. I have it."
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Aha, thanks, MB!
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I know Tate's talent was restored. But we're being given mixed clues about whether he still has any gift. Carolyn's diplomatic about how utterly unimpressive the painting is, so while he may very well be avoiding portraits, what he's really doing may be turning out the kind of stuff they put on the walls in Holiday Inns, uninspired, functional landscapes that are "pretty" like family vacation snapshots are, eking out a small living that way, because greatness is behind him.
The way all this plays out in the end makes me think this too. How would Tate's talent have been lost, after recently having been restored? By Petofi himself having been destroyed in the fire.
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Though Carolyn's opinion of something isn't exactly the definitive opinion about it. [snow_wink][spoiler]And in Ep #889 it's not like Stokes, who would be the first to make a rude comment, says anything like Tate's latter work is inferior to his earlier work. Stokes merely comments that no one has ever copied or forged Tate's style so Julia's Tate is genuine, which could easily imply that Tate's style remained consistent.[/spoiler]
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I love this capture from this ep:
(http://www.dsboards.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=59185.0;attach=103450)
The expression on Julia's face is priceless! [snow_cheesy]
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What is she responding to, MB, do you remember?
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Well MB, on Tate's talent, everything's up in the air at this point, which is why early Leviathans is very watchable. We're being given evidence that could go either way. I'd thought we were given an overall impression that Tate was uninspired later on, though, not just from Carolyn.
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What is she responding to, MB, do you remember?
I believe Julia's starting to wonder if CDT could still be alive and if he could somehow help Chris...
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Oh, okay, thanks!
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I'd thought we were given an overall impression that Tate was uninspired later on, though, not just from Carolyn.
If we are, I honestly don't recall when. I'm not saying it won't come up, just that I don't remember any incidents. So, it would prove interesting to see if/when it does...
Also, even if Petofi did die in the fire in 1897 (which is another big if), that doesn't necessarily mean that anything he was responsible for would have been lost. After all,[spoiler]we'll learn down the road that the power of Quentin's painting is still in full force.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]The paintings still have power, but the artist's supernatural talent may be a separate issue, no new supernaturally influenced art may be possible after Petofi's death.
I believe the entire significance of showing us Tate at 100 years old was that he was obsessed with the fact that he had come SO close to establishing his own immortality by painting himself, had never thought of doing it while he had Petofi's gift, and has now lost the gift and had to grow old like everyone else. He's so obsessed by that missed opportunity that he created that youthful dummy of himself to greet visitors with. He won't let anyone see him old. The very fact that he's a frail old man means that the gift is gone.[/spoiler]
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Though as I alluded to earlier, there is no certainty that Petofi died. In fact, the show deliberately makes Petofi's fate a mystery. He could have died in the fire in 1897 - but it's just as possible that he was able to escape and is still very much alive somewhere in 1969. So, we cannot establish anything one way or the other when it comes to Petofi's potential continued influence. [ghost_nowink]
Something also to keep in mind is what transpires once[spoiler]Chris tracks Tate down and what Tate is still quite capable of doing.[/spoiler]But we won't see that for several more weeks...
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$300 was NOT a huge amount in 1969, but:
a) Yankee thrift (and I don't mean to be derogatory, just factual)
b) it was a WOMAN'S $$$; a FEMALE doctor with her rich female friend
Why would ((Professor Stokes)) be caring for ick Sabrina ick?
I'm sure I'll get alot of 'cures' here, but I never liked the Todds. ESPECIALLY H E R :(
I can't remember; where is Joe at this junction? Is he still on DS?
I'm already trying to remember the NON Levis; loving them & cheering them on now!!
Is Mrs. Johnson still around much at this point?
Soon, we'll see 'an old ? friend ? '.....mwuaaahuuuaa!!
Patti
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I had a crush on both Todds, lol. Loved Bernau's voice. And Wallace in a pull over sweater put me under a spell. As characters, I always liked Philip right up to the end. Megan too though she could be exasperating at times.
I too find myself trying to recall the immune ones. I love that they exist and which characters were chosen. One in particular is awesome, whose strength/resistance harkens back to the shows beginnings - a perfect choice.
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Ah, Dom, I think I know the resistant one you mean. Good observation!
I always liked both Todds because they seemed to be such plausible, actual people like you'd find in ordinary life. Bernau did have a wonderful speaking voice, and I think this was MW's best role--after Jenny, of course.
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The Leviathan selection process is kind of like the dream curse. Some people are chosen, some are not. The Paul Stoddard situation seems to be unique. He is obligated to them but retains enough free will to be aware of what they're really up to. It doesn't seem that he was taken over the way the others were. And you have to wonder why they didn't make him more subservient. Making him pod Paul would have things easier for them.
Megan & Philip are great characters, the first link to the world outside the estate since Joe went crazy and Maggie left the diner. It would have been nice to have kept them around.
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I'm sort of nuts for Megan Todd, once she stops with the pseudo-semi-turtlenecks and goes to the actual ones, especially the black... I love her as an evil coiled spring. Niceness doesn't seem to work for her.
Joe was carried off to Wyndcliffe I think, before 1897 happened.
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I had wanted to add earlier, that during the original run I saw the series in black and white and that MW as MT looked especially voluptuous in B&W.
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The immune ones, I can think of:
[spoiler]Roger, Carolyn, Mrs. Johnson, Chris, Sabrina (?), Julia, Willie, Amy (?)[/spoiler]
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Joey, there's one more! As Dom said, one of the immune ones is especially awesome, whose strength and resistance hark back to the early days of the show.
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[spoiler]Maggie? Or Liz not being able to kill Julia?[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]Right the first time--it's Maggie.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]Amy is taken over, though I think it was basically to shut her up about what she had seen. It is rather odd that they never tried to convert Carolyn, considering that they expected her to spawn. And maybe their grandiose plans caused the Leviathans to bypass Chris and Willie. It does seem that there is a definite pecking order in the Leviathans. There are those who are taken over (Elizabeth, the Todd's, David and Amy) and those who made sort of deal and are there by their own choice (Bruno, Sky, Nell Gunston) [/spoiler]
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[spoiler]David being taken was a mistake with it being so soon after being possessed by Quentin and lasting almost a year![/spoiler]
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The Leviathan selection process is kind of like the dream curse. Some people are chosen, some are not. The Paul Stoddard situation seems to be unique. He is obligated to them but retains enough free will to be aware of what they're really up to. It doesn't seem that he was taken over the way the others were. And you have to wonder why they didn't make him more subservient. Making him pod Paul would have things easier for them.
Megan & Philip are great characters, the first link to the world outside the estate since Joe went crazy and Maggie left the diner. It would have been nice to have kept them around.
I like the Todds as well. and you're right about the "outside world". starting in 1967 and for a long time afterwards the scope of the story becomes extremely myopic with most of the action taking place on or near the Collinwood estate. this storyline reintroduces the sense of Collinsport the town for the first time since 1966. the antique shop is a great set...
[spoiler]and it's interesting to be reminded that for a character/actor who has subsequently become so strongly associated with the series Quentin/David Selby's appearance in 1970 must have at first been a "surprise" to viewers at the time.[/spoiler]
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I always loved the antique shop! I wish I could have snagged a few of those props....
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it was always fun trying to spot important props from previous storylines displayed as "merchandise" at the shop.
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I think the Todds are the coolest. How sad that they they were only allowed to be happy and hopeful for mere moments.
[spoiler] Carolyn has never seen a picture of her father, I guess.[/spoiler]
Nope. She says at some point that she wasn't allowed to.
it was always fun trying to spot important props from previous storylines displayed as "merchandise" at the shop.
Great fun!
Carolyn's reaction to Julia's purchase was priceless.