DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '15 I => Topic started by: Watching Project on February 17, 2015, 04:32:19 PM
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Robservations #886
And if you'd care to look back, the first WP discussion topic for this ep:Re: Discuss - Ep #0886
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Once again I've jumped up, Today I've posted screen caps and set ups for this ep on the "Complete This Phrase / Fill In The Blank(s) - 1796_4a" and "Caption This! - 1796_4a" boards because things are still quite a bit behind compared to where we are for the WP. And in an attempt to keep up, most days I'll try to do a much better job of posting at least 20 new captures every day.
(But as I promise before, I will go back at some point to post stuff from the missing 1897 eps (Eps #742-#800, Eps #841-#860, and now Eps #871-#885). [snow_smiley])
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Oops - I almost forgot that there are some Leviathans moments from this ep, so I've just posted screen caps and set ups for this ep on the "Complete This Phrase / Fill In The Blank(s) - Leviathans" and "Caption This! - Leviathans" boards too. [snow_smiley]
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Thanks for everything, MB!
Natalie is at the cliff's edge, changing history (except none of this was written down with any detail or accuracy and then only for the family so is it history?) by having it not be Barnabas, because of a Natalie-Barnabas conversation which I'm not sure we witnessed onscreen.
DS time travel, unlike other TV time travel, involves only one "version" of a character at a time. So a "duplicate" from the future can't just decide not to meddle and go back. There are no duplicates, just the future version stuck in the shoes of the original. So he has to consider every moment, changing what should be changed, re-creating every act that needs to happen. Nerve-wracking.
So much for reformed Barnabas... he bites Natalie without hesitation just to stop her from interfering with him and Josette meeting. In fact, the effect of 1897 has probably been to "teach" Barnabas that you can get away with that sort of thing without causing a disaster to a basically nice person... if he's remembering Beth. The bitings came to be used almost casually as an interrogation technique. And who cares if it harmed Dirk, he was an enemy.... Perhaps he's even managing to overlook his having been totally exposed and made a fugitive by having turned Dirk into a vampire, since he turned that around with his ressurrection stunt (which he convinced two women who were lovesick for him to pull off so he could romance a third). So he might be feeling pretty bulletproof by now, or at least less questioning of his own vampiric actions, seeing them as mere tools now.
Interesting though, seeing which directions Barnabas is being pulled from moment to moment by his vampire impulses, and how it affects his decision-making. There's a decent person in there somewhere; he just has enormous trouble achieving any real perspective on how to deal with events and human beings.
I liked Grayson's very individual response to the bite, as if it was the biggest defeat imaginable, and something she could never, ever come back from... whereas for Barnabas, it had just been an expediant. He probably stays clueless as to how it affects her. Well, he has other concerns starting now.
[spoiler]I have to reorder all the 1795/6 redoings properly in my head... I've viewed them out of sequence. Since Barnabas is about to jump back out of 1796, does that re-establish the events of his first meddling, from that moment onward... with 1968 BC in 1796 BC's body's head clearing, saying to self, well, better get back to my 1968 plans now (as opposed to the 1969 meddling we've just been watching)? With all that concluding with Ben killing Natalie and Nathan Forbes in the mausoleum?
Maybe, but I guess that would involve Natalie suddenly ceasing to be a vampire victim, when 1969-in-1796 BC is replaced by 1968-in-1796 BC. How does this affect her subsequent actions? She could be one of those victims who conveniently forgets...
I like how this means Barnabas has just inhabited himself inhabiting himself.)
Barnabas only ends up pushing Josette past her limits, with all his clumsy talk about other times, and not asking why. He's pulled her reality up by its roots, taking away any anchor I think, probably encouraging precipitous decisions. He fails to meet Kitty/Josette, and a reasonable possibility such as "he was just held up temporarily" doesn't occur, in this new, highly emotionally charged fantasy she seems to be stuck in. She takes poison. Good poison-acting from KLS.
This time around, it's much clearer to me that the Leviathans just simply were lying about holding Josette a sort of prisoner. I'd thought it was probably the truth, with her prison being someplace between life and death. This time, it's clear Barnabas just didn't know she'd taken poison, and if the robed people knew at all, they didn't tell him. That's all.
Barnabas is laid out on the cairn, end. By Sam Hall. I'm glad Violet Welles was assigned to finish out 1897, while the other writers worked on the new storyline. The usual DS pattern was to put the best people to work on the coming storyline, letting the conclusion to the presently-airing storyline go a little (or a lot). 1897 deserved to go out well.
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Did I screw up by putting too much into a spoiler zone? I can't get the whole thing to show onscreen, even with the smallest print.
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I like spoilers no matter how much is written.
[spoiler]Natalie was probably released from the spell once Barnabas leaves 1796 back to his former self as I think Millicent was when he arrived the last time from 1968. I said before I think this is a fantasy 1796 conjured by the Leviathans to capture Barnabas, the rest was window dressing. Perhaps the real Kitty never left London at all. Any "correspondence" to Edward wouldn't have been from the real Kitty either.
[/spoiler]
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MT and Joey, what interesting ideas--thanks for posting!
This episode marks the only time Barnabas bites a character played by Grayson Hall! Afterward, Natalie uncharacteristically weeps and seemingly gives up the effort to protect Josette. However, our last sight of Millicent is when she goes out to look for Josette. We can only suppose she found Josette dead in her room at the Old House--maybe this is another scene in the parallel DS story.
Welcome (I guess) Oberon & Haza. For me, the most interesting part of this scene is JF's well-done interior monologue when Barn is surprised to find himself lost at Collinwood.
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Did I screw up by putting too much into a spoiler zone? I can't get the whole thing to show onscreen, even with the smallest print.
It all displays fine for me so long as I keep my cursor over the spoiler area. Though I'm not sure if things may work differently for you if you have any of the special displays set for your monitor.
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Yeah, it's fine, Magnus, I just had to scroll the spoiler box to the top of my monitor for the entire contents to display, though. In theory, I guess a spoiler could be too long to display in it's entirety.
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#886
First, what's a reticle (or something). Why does Millicent or Josette have one handy?
Barn telling Josette IN 1796 that there's another time, A CENTURY AHEAD WHERE HE'S ALIVE.
Perhaps its a common case of FDSMS, but, [spoiler] wasn't Barn a vamp in 1895? If he said TWO CENTURIES, well, no woman's gonna wait THAT long!! [/spoiler]
Leviathans, Leviathans......since I have the story arc from Supernatural, I can only think of DICKFACE Roman!!
Patti
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Thanks dom, MB... As long as others can see it, that's what matters. Patti, Barnabas was cured toward the end of 1897, in a strange extreme plan to win Josette's reincarnation, Kitty Soames.
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A reticule was a small, drawstring bag, usually made of fabric, where a woman could carry a handkerchief and a small bottle of perfume--or poison, if she's on Dark Shadows. Of course, a gentlewoman was not expected to have to handle something so vulgar as money.
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Women walked around with a vial of poison?
Wasn't there any concern of a youngin' being naturally curious?
I cannot remember Barn being cured???? (In end of 1897 arc)
Patti
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Of course, a gentlewoman was not expected to have to handle something so vulgar as money.
Perish the thought!! [snow_wink] Although, I can think of at least one instance on DS in which money was found in a woman's reticule. And another even more shocking instance in which a gun was found!! [snow_shocked]
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Women walked around with a vial of poison?
Well, yes, if they were in Dark Shadows. [snow_cheesy]
Welcome, Patti!
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I decided to jump into the Watching Project, coincidentally during the same storyline that led me to abandon the show in 1969 and not look back until cancellation loomed. There were other things going on too, such as starting an all-girl's high school and making all new friends. My childhood friend that introduced me to the show and came to my house after school since then so we could watch together had recently changed in confusing ways, but it would be a years before I'd learn that I was witnessing very early signs of schizophrenia.
She and I loved 1795, felt awful for Barnabas, and wished the show would somehow make it turn out differently. We'd seen Quentin's haunting thwarted and Barnabas cured, but at this point in the series, which I was now viewing alone, it became clear to me that Josette was fated to die. It was a no-win situation for Barnabas (his Kobayashi Maru?); I gave up the dream of seeing any other result.
I don't know why I despised the changes that began in this episode, especially the change in Barnabas, so much that I turned away from DS altogether. But wait, Barnabas was already selfish and nasty. Sizing him up in this single episode now: After Natalie replaced him on Widows Hill, succeeding where he previously failed, and left Josette to report back to him despite her obvious fear of him, but then told him she wouldn't let him near her young charge (what aunt would?!), he dispatched her by biting her. What an ass.
Now, I LOVE Leviathans more with each viewing. I enjoyed Supernatural's Leviathan story; now there's a show that doesn't shy away from turning its popular characters totally evil. So if I could, I would vote now for Curtis & Co. to go ahead and make him as evil as they wanted for as long as the story needed it.
Oberon and Haza are mysterious and creepy and fantastically mystical. This Leviathan stuff was so daring for a 60s TV show. Looking forward to talking about it...
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I had hoped to jump in at this juncture also, Midnite, but fate is unkind, lol. Hopefully soon!
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Bummer, dom. [snow_sad]
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Hopefully we'll see you again soon, dom!
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Welcome, Midnite! This is where I jumped in 5 years ago. Dom, hope things change. It would be great to have your input again.
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Thank you, Magnus!