DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '04 I => Topic started by: Patti Feinberg on March 30, 2004, 12:05:04 AM
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So, if I'm correct, the producers of the HOPEFUL new DS are John Wells (Law & Order), Josh Wheldon (Buffy) AND DC.
Uhh...first, couldn't there possibly be a problem with the old adage too many cooks spoil the pot?
Or, has anyone heard if each gentleman will have a hand in a certain aspect?
And, not to get negative, nasty, but....what has DC don't lately to merit being in 'the big leagues' with these other men? (I don't think that sounded right, but, I hope you catch the drift.)
Patti
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Joss Whedon isn't involved - it's John Wells, Dan Curtis and Mark Verheiden - you can read brief info on each at http://www.collinwood.net/new
As for too many cooks, have you *seen* the opening moments of most network shows these days? I was watching "Smallville" yesterday and could swear that the endless list of producer credits lasted for about two thirds of the episode.
Three EPs in this day and age really isn't a big deal at all.
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Thank you Stuart :-[.
You're right...on the opening credits of 90210 there's like 5 producers plus 3 exec. producers.
I forgot (look at my subtitle)....who OWNS DS?
Does DC...if so...what is the relationship with Worldvision (not affiliated with blah blah)?
Thanks again,
Patti
Also, does anyone know what exactly DC will be doing inasmuch as production of hopeful new DS?
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who OWNS DS?
Does DC...if so...what is the relationship with Worldvision
DC owns the intellectual property of DS, which is why no one else has ever been able to do another DS without his say so. However, DC doesn't own the ABC epsiodes - WorldVision does - which is why any deal to run those epsodes must go through them.
Details of this arrangement have been posted on the forum before. If not on this version, then on VantageNet. If they're not here, they can probably be posted again...
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DC owns the intellectual property of DS, which is why no one else has ever been able to do another DS without his say so. However, DC doesn't own the ABC epsiodes - WorldVision does - which is why any deal to run those epsodes must go through them.
MB, I've :- always thought that Dan Curtis Productions owned the series, including the original recorded materials, and that Worldvision only controlled the re-broadcast rights, on behalf of DCP. I didn't think that ABC had ownership in the original series (unlike their current daytime shows), but only DC's company.
At least, that's the way I've always understood the terms and ownership--at least, that's the way one of the actors explained it to me several years ago, along with the fact that DC >:D gets residuals from the original show while the actors get zip!
::)
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Well, unless things changed since their report (which, I suppose, could be possible), back in the '70s Variety reported that the settlement of DC's suit against ABC to finally get DS syndicated was that WorldVision owns the actual DS episodes.
No offense, but personally, given their ability for often, uh, "mixing up" (yeah, that's it ;)) their "facts," I'd believe a report in Variety before I'd believe almost any of the actors. [b003]
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Oops. . .I didn't know about DC's suit against ABC as reported by Variety back then. So, you're probably right.
LOL--you're certainly right about the actors "mixing" their facts.
So, I guess in the end, DC doesn't get all that money I thought he's been getting from MPI's VHS and DVD releases, while the actors allegedly get nothing. ;)
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I don't know what the deal is for television screenings of DS, but MPI does pay the actors some residuals from their merchandising activities.
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but it is pretty common that actors from that time period get zip in residuals
unlike today kinda like ballplayers worked jobs after baseball season was over in the old days to support their families Could you see Derek J or Nomar
selling you a car today in the off season?
jennifer
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So, I guess in the end, DC doesn't get all that money I thought he's been getting from MPI's VHS and DVD releases, while the actors allegedly get nothing. ;)
Having actually seen the check(s) one DS actor has gotten over the years, the words "next to nothing" come to mind. If this what that particular actor gets, the rest make the same or less by comparison.
Nancy
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Could you see Derek J or Nomar
selling you a car today in the off season?
I'd probably buy anything Derek Jeter was selling, whether it worked or not. ^-^
Nancy
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I'm not sure at which year things changed, some of you scholars of entertainment law may be able to inform us, but as an example of royalty payments, I met George Lindsay who stated he get more royalties for one episode of M*A*S*H he guest appeared on than the whole run of The Andy Griffith Show. I would suspect the main reason DS actors get royalties from the tapes and DVDs would be from the extra contributions like the interviews, which are new amterial, as well as a small stipend for "transfer to another medium." Either that or as a courtesy. Was there some clause that gave them a small (I bet very small) per cent of the merchandising? Does anyone have any idea what was set up? ???
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I'd probably buy anything Derek Jeter was selling, whether it worked or not. ^-^
:-* I hear ya!! ;)
Stuart Wrote:Joss Whedon isn't involved - it's John Wells, Dan Curtis and Mark Verheiden - you can read brief info on each at http://www.collinwood.net/new
Thanks Stuart for the link.
Cassandra
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I'm not sure at which year things changed, some of you scholars of entertainment law may be able to inform us. . .
I'm not a "scholar of entertainment law," but I have worked in the entertainment industry for many years, and I know the royalties/residuals issue is more the result of what AFTRA and/or SAG negotiated with the producers than what individual actors negotiate. A few "stars" may have been able to get residuals from daytime shows in the 60s, but then the only real star who worked in daytime during DS was Joan Bennett--and she was the first "movie star" to do daytime. And she didn't get residuals written into her contract. After all--whoever thought a soap opera would ever be syndicated, or reissued on home video (we didn't even know such a thing would ever exist in the future back in the 60s) on VHS or DVD. But, as the actress I spoke with said: "Dan Curtis KNEW this show was special" and he kept all those tapes (at least that's what she told me). Maybe that's why he fought so hard with ABC over syndication rights. . .
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I am talking completely from recollection of autobiographies that I've read, but in Golden Age Hollywood for instance, many, many actors did not get residuals for the movies they made when those films then appeared on TV. There were exceptions--a couple of people with far-seeing agents and so on--but a lot of people made zip while their films aired over and over again.
And some of the actors from sitcoms like Gilligan's Island have gone on record as saying that they never received residuals.
http://www.gilligansisle.com/interdawn.html (http://www.gilligansisle.com/interdawn.html)
http://www.bobdenver.com/Ask_Bob/body_ask_bob.html (http://www.bobdenver.com/Ask_Bob/body_ask_bob.html)
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The show is owned by ABC for broadcast- It being a subdivision of several companies, Paramount handles syndication rights...
Dan Curtis doesn't and didn't hold onto anything...All masters have always been stored at ABC and Worldvision.
Since home video was not included in ABCs deal with Curtis originally, Curtis owns the video release rights, entirely, I believe.
The only person I know of who actually put syndication residuals into his contract was Sy Thomashoff, smart man that he is...
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But, as the actress I spoke with said: "Dan Curtis KNEW this show was special" and he kept all those tapes (at least that's what she told me).
Dan Curtis doesn't and didn't hold onto anything...All masters have always been stored at ABC and Worldvision.
Darren, thank you so much for jumping in to explain that. I've been trying to hunt up the Variety article that explains it (with no luck) so that people wouldn't simply have to take my word that the DS actors who continue to spread that story simply don't know what they're talking about. But now it wouldn't simply be my word. :)
I did, however, come across this initial article from 1975 about DC's suit:
'Dark Shadows' Prompts Suit Against ABC And Worldvision
Dan Curtis Productions has filed suit against ABC and Worldvision over the syndication and distribution rights to the "Dark Shadows" series that played on the network's daytime schedule between June 1966 and April 1971.
According the the plaintiff, which is seeking triple damages on "at least" a $1,000,000 loss to itself, Curtis entered an agreement with ABC for the latter to play the series on its network with ownership returned to the producer after web play. But, the brief filed in N.Y. Federal Court said, ABC assigned domestic and individual rights to its ABC Films syndie division. That division was later sold to its head, Kevin O'Sullivan, and the name was changed to Worldvision Inc.
That assignment of rights, according to the suit, was "exaction," a practice outlawed by the Sherman Antitrust Act and exerted by ABC through its economic power as contrasted to that of the plaintiff, an independent producer.
"At the time the agreement was made," the brief said, it was the usual practice of ABC and the other two national tv networks to force all independent producers to agree to terms similar to or identical with these exactions before said network wiould agree to exhibit television shows." Those agreements, it was stated, give the networks a position tending to monopoly.
Independent producers, the brief continued, had "so little bargaining power," they almost always gave up a substantial amount of a show's profitability to the webs.
The suit said that from 1957 to 1968, networks increasingly engaged in syndication and their control of off-web syndication increased from 62.28% to 96.7% of such product. Profit from such syndie material, it was said, went from $894,000 in 1960 to $6,266,000 in 1967.
In 1970, the FCC gave the networks a time limit to get out of syndication. CBS spun off its division as Viacom International and O'Sullivan bought his business in April 1973. NBC has also disposed of its syndie properties to National Telefilm Associates.
But the three networks are currently facing a Justice Dept, suit in California charging them with antitrust violations for owning rights to many shows they air -- a proctice all have said no longer exists.
Like I said, unfortunately I haven't been able to locate the article that fully explains the settlement. But as I also said, basically the ruling was not in DC's favor and Worldvision retained ownership of the DS episodes. DC, however, owns the "intellectual property" of DS.
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Okay...I'll just blatantly show what a duff I am.
You quote twice the word 'web'...obviously, since it's 1975, it's not the world wide web...what is it.
Also, it seemed like it was saying that exacting was illegal/unfair advantage over indep. producer/monopoly. But, you (MB) said it wasn't in DC's favor...so, why not?
Also....WHAT DOES INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY mean? Merchandising? Ideas?
Thanks MB & everyone else!!
Patti
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Intellectual property- simply the concept, ideas and characters and story of the show. Essentially if Dan owns the intellectual property rights only he can make a new Dark Shadows show, movie etc. or enter into an agreement to make such a thing with another company...
Essentially, ABC can't pitch a new show to anbody- they don't own it. Dan can pitch it to whoever he wants.
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Webs means web-syndication, ie: nationwide syndication. It's mentioned in the article.
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Also, it seemed like it was saying that exacting was illegal/unfair advantage over indep. producer/monopoly. But, you (MB) said it wasn't in DC's favor...so, why not?
Those quotes came from DC's lawyer's legal brief, so it would necessarily favor DC's position in the suit. But apparently the court saw the situation differently and ruled accordingly.
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Okay ??? now I'm totally confused and I've got a few questions:
1) Since DC owns intellectual rights to the new WB production of DS, that means that he can control scripts and/or has final say so. Right?
2) Does DC get any money from MPI for the DS conversion from VHS to DVD format? I believe that you said the actors who interview do.
3) What exactly does an executive producer do anyway?
4) How long can DC control intellectual rights to DS and can he pass those rights on to an heir?
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1) Since DC owns intellectual rights to the new WB production of DS, that means that he can control scripts and/or has final say so. Right?
That completely depends on the deal he's made with John Wells and Mark Verheiden. My guess is that he doesn't have the 100% final say on anything. Why would Wells and Verheiden be involved if he did? And I'm strongly suspecting that the involvement of those two men is what got the WB's interest. On his own, DC had been shopping DS around for over 10 years without much to show for it.
2) Does DC get any money from MPI for the DS conversion from VHS to DVD format? I believe that you said the actors who interview do.
I've never read any concrete info on this, but I doubt he'd get money only for the simple reason that the episodes are being released on DVD. However, he most probably worked out some sort of deal for the show's release to home video, and the DVDs would most probably be included in that.
3) What exactly does an executive producer do anyway?
That varies from EP to EP. Some are producers in name only and have no involvement in the day to day operations, while others have involvement in every aspect of a show. DC isn't the type to be the former. Normally he's the latter - but with Wells and Verheiden's involvement in the WB DS, who knows where he falls within it?
4) How long can DC control intellectual rights to DS and can he pass those rights on to an heir?
He probably controls them for life. But he can assign them to anyone else whenever he wants to, which would include passing them along upon his death.
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Curtis owns all video rights, including VHS, LD, DVD and any other format that comes along. MPI nor any other company can put out DVDs of the episodes legally without making a contract with Dan Curtis.
Of course, he's making money off of the DVD releases.
All video releases on MPI are legally authorized releases and they are supervised by Dan's marketing coordinator. It's pretty much controlled in-house, with final authroing and such done in IL or wherever MPI is located.
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??? Maybe I'm just catching on...but...with DC given the opportunity to produce a NEW DS...is this possibly why it was taken off Sci-Fi (and subsquently, not picked up by any other networks)?
Patti
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4) How long can DC control intellectual rights to DS and can he pass those rights on to an heir?
He probably controls them for life. But he can assign them to anyone else whenever he wants to, which would include passing them along upon his death.
I believe the copyright law is he owns the rights for his life-time. Should he become incapacitated and be unable to manage his affairs, then a conservator would be either designated in a living trust/will or appointed by the court via probate court. The conservator would then manage all business affairs including Dark Shadows and Dan Curtis Productions, pay his bills or whatever the papers or court would designate. After he dies, his designated heirs would be able to control the rights for another 50 years. After that, it becomes the public domain.
Should he die intestate (no will), his estate would automatically pass to his wife, Norma under California law. Should they both die at the same time, then equally between his children. But, I would think he's savvy enough to have his will in order.
(http://home.pacbell.net/cbsbiz/Victoriaquill.gif)
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Re: The Producers
Wow! Thanks for taking the time to relay this information. You have helped to make it clearer for me.
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Well, unless things changed since their report (which, I suppose, could be possible), back in the '70s Variety reported that the settlement of DC's suit against ABC to finally get DS syndicated was that WorldVision owns the actual DS episodes.
No offense, but personally, given their ability for often, uh, "mixing up" (yeah, that's it ;)) their "facts," I'd believe a report in Variety before I'd believe almost any of the actors. [b003]
Yes, a certain DS actor is still going around telling everyone that DS was shot on kinescope. Try telling her that it was video tape and she won't believe you. I love this lady dearly, so please don't take this as a put down of her.