DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '14 II => Topic started by: Bob_the_Bartender on September 12, 2014, 03:02:22 PM
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Hey, gang,
During the course of Dark Shadows'" run from the summer of 1966 to the early spring of 1971, I believe that there were only three cast members, who were there for the entire run: Joan Bennett, Louis Edmonds and Nancy Barrett. These three wonderful actors were there from the initial introduction of the contemporary Collinses to the rather disappointing and, quite frankly, sleep-inducing Collinses of 1840 PT.
Of course, there was one other original DS actor, who almost made it to the end of the series in April of 1971, that being young David Hennesy, best known for his portrayal of the precocious and generally hell-raising David Collins. I have wondered why David was not there for the conclusion of the series? Did he just want to get off of the show? (I believe that David gave up acting not long after DS ended.)
Perhaps Dan Curtis and the Dark Shadows writers just could not come up with a character for David to play in the moribund and, thankfully, short-lived 1840 PT story line?
Do you have any ideas on David's apparently sudden and unexplained departure from DS?
Bob
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by the start of the 1840 storyline it was clear David's time on the series was winding down...
despite "Tad" and "Carrie" launching the storyline and putatively being at it's center no sooner did it start then they were relegated to the background (with Hennesey in particular disappearing for weeks at a time) and never came close to the importance the setup implied. and I don't even recall how "Tad" was eventually written out of the period but it was an afterthought at most. Carrie hung around the periphery but not much came of that character either if I'm remembering correctly. a relatively useless "parallel time" version of the character was shoehorned into 1841PT but I got the impression they were just finishing out Kathy Cody's contract.
isn't the story that David wanted to move to California with his father or something to that effect? to attend a regular high school maybe? or maybe he was just done with the whole thing.
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Tad was written out of 1840 by having Quentin send him to Boston (which went against the implication he was killed by Gerard along with Carrie & Daphne at a later point in the story). He appeared only in 5 episodes of 1840.
Had the show returned and stayed in the present, they would have had to recast.
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Michael, the story that you cited is what Henesy's mother said during a Q&A at the 2002 Anaheim Festival. The kid simply wanted to live with his dad for a while. The few appearances that he actually makes in 1840 were supposed to keep the character afloat in case David decided to come back.
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I was one of those here who watched the original series from beginning to end and was the same age as Henesy. Because of that, I often identified with him. Interestingly, when he vanished from the series, back then, I took no notice. I figured his character of David would reappear when the story returned to 1971. Of course, it didn't (both his character and the series).
Now, decades later, I see the inconsistency of the 1840/41 storyline as Joeytrom pointed out. He, along with Carrie, were suppose to be killed by Gerard. None of that happened, or even came close to it. That's why the whole 1840/41 plot-line is one of my least favorites (with some exceptions of certain scenes). It made no sense, extending from the hauntings/doings of '95/'70/1840-41. It was a horrible mess. I much prefer PT41. But that's another hash.
Gerard
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it was certainly one of the show's odder pieces of plotting (and gaps in continuity) to set up an entire storyline and time period around a character (Tad) that ended up having virtually nothing to do with it.
by the summer of 1970 the show's producers must have had the general idea that Hennesey would soon be departing (his contract had likely expired) so unless they could have gotten him committed to an extended run on the show it's strange they wrote an entire storyline around him.
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although not quite as dramatic it could be comparable to the setup for 1897 and then having Quentin disappear after just five episodes.
Tad was supposed to be a major player.
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Points well taken, Michael. And, on a more traditional show, that's probably how things would have played out. Not quite so on under the not quite so benevolent dictatorship of DC. This is, after all, the person who told KLS that she was insane to leave the show, even though she was no longer under contract and was going to live in Paris with her fiancée.
But, at this point, the DS shark had not merely jumped. It was shot out of a cannon.
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I agree.
by the 1840 episodes (if not before) the series was plagued by an overwhelming sense of exhaustion. I found them almost impossible to get through.
I thought the 1970 "parallel time" storyline was the last time the show felt at all fresh or energized.
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I thoroughly enjoyed the parallel time story as well. I also quite liked the 1995 flash forward. It had some genuinely creepy moments. But the show was sadly on a downward spiral, recycling too many elements at once. KLS, Henesy and other key players are gone. Louis Edmonds & Joan Bennett are largely sidelined. The show seemed to be operating on the idea that all that was needed was Collinwood, Barnabas, Julia and some variation on Quentin.
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Points well taken, Michael. And, on a more traditional show, that's probably how things would have played out. Not quite so on under the not quite so benevolent dictatorship of DC. This is, after all, the person who told KLS that she was insane to leave the show, even though she was no longer under contract and was going to live in Paris with her fiancée.
But, at this point, the DS shark had not merely jumped. It was shot out of a cannon.
Uncle Roger,
A guy told me that he spoke with Lara Parker at a book signing event in Los Angeles a couple of years ago, and Ms. Parker told him that she thought the reason why DS was cancelled in the early spring of 1971 was because the show had become too boring, perhaps even better than Ambien or Lunestra in inducing a deep sleep.
Bob
PS If DS had not only jumped-the-shark and been shot out of a cannon, then maybe the "slightly" florid Morgan Collins was blasted off in a Titan rocket! [ghost_shocked] [ghost_rolleyes]
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I thoroughly enjoyed the parallel time story as well. I also quite liked the 1995 flash forward. It had some genuinely creepy moments. But the show was sadly on a downward spiral, recycling too many elements at once. KLS, Henesy and other key players are gone. Louis Edmonds & Joan Bennett are largely sidelined. The show seemed to be operating on the idea that all that was needed was Collinwood, Barnabas, Julia and some variation on Quentin.
there were a few high points (notably Virgina Vestoff's viperous Samantha)...
but otherwise it felt like the dog's dinner. another generic Quentin. another generic Trask. another generic Roxanne. a Pansey Faye knockoff thrown in for good measure (and no reason). and another generic Barnabas and Julia attempt to "save" so-and-so from such-and-such.
and then it all fizzled out without having anything to do with it's original premise. it was a mess.
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I agree with anyone, but I also think that all the time traveling got kind of boring.
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I agree with anyone, but I also think that all the time traveling got kind of boring.
Vickis Ghost,
Yes, the time travel schtick did get a bit boring. (I believe that one DS fan even wrote a serial about the Collins family during 1870 in Dale Clark's excellent DS magazine, "Inside the Old House," a number of years ago.)
However, when the then Sci-Fi Channel was airing DS back in the days before the world literally changed on 9/11/01, we all had a lot of fun with Barnabas and Dr. Hoffman's brief sojourn into the future, to the year 1995.
Gerard, one of our most senior and most insightful posters/cousins here, posted a thread in which he suggested that there might have been certain future "disasters," which Barnabas and Julia might have prevented while they were in 1995, such as HMOs, Roger Clinton and several more. [ghost_cheesy]
I also suggested that Mr. B. and Dr. H. might also have prevented the onset of disco music in the 1970s. For example, I posited that if DS had remained on the air until the mid 1970s, then some truly "timeless" group, like say, K.C. and the Sunshine Band, would have recorded a song, entitled, "Disco Dark Shadows." [ghost_undecided] (Maybe the great Sir Monte Rock might have even played "Disco Dark Shadows" during a scene in that Brooklyn disco, where we got to see the eternally youthful John Travolta do his best Denny Terrio impression in that cinematic classic, "Saturday Night Fever"?)
The ultimate disco insult, however, would have been having to see Barnabas, entering Collinwood, and attired in a leisure suit. Ugh!!! [ghost_shocked] [ghost_blink] [ghost_cheesy]
So, many of us still have a warm spot in our hearts for Barnabas and Julia's visit to 1995, albeit a very brief visit. [ghost_sad] [ghost_wacko]
Bob
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I agree with anyone, but I also think that all the time traveling got kind of boring.
me too...
with the "failure" of the leviathan storyline and cast members leaving left and right I think the writers got "bored" or even "afraid" of "the present". they probably thought they had written themselves into a corner without a lot of "new" places to go with it. hence the 'summer of 1970' was essentially a retread of the Quentin storyline.
so they probably thought yet another sojourn into 'the past" would provide fresh storyline possibilities or at the very least "atmosphere" in terms of new sets and period costuming.
but the concept was largely played out. the final year covered seven trips back, forth and sideways "in time". 1970-1970PT-1995-1970-1840-1971-1841PT. and that's fresh after a nearly year long storyline set in 1897. that's a lot of time travel for one show. it became trite and clichéd.
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How many times could the contemporary Collins family be threatened by some malevolent supernatural force? First, we saw the bad ghost of Quentin Collins menacing the Collins family, then we saw the Leviathans plotting to overtake the world, and, finally, came the evil spirit Gerard "The Sneer" Stiles (a/k/a warlock Judah Zachary) out to destroy the Collinses once and for all.
What would have been next, the truly terrifying prospect of the entire Kardashian family moving in right next to the Collinwood estate!?! [ghost_shocked] [ghost_wacko] [ghost_tongue]
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Absolutely! Ironic that one of the things that made DS unique led to its ultimate downfall. With all the zigzagging all over the different time periods, it was nearly impossible to form any sort of real emotional attachment to characters that might not be around long.
The David/Hallie story is just out of touch with reality on any level. The kids are really too old for a governess and much too old for that playroom. Teenagers have been sneaking off forever and are usually acting on raging hormones. This is never even considered, not even by Carolyn, who did her share of acting out.
It might have been wiser to send David off to college and have him come back older, possibly played by a new actor. Perhaps even with a fiancée or wife with a few family secrets of her own.
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lore has it that had the story returned to "the present" Kate Jackson (as who exactly??? Daphne?) would replace KLS as Collinwood governess...
my take has been governess to whom??? David was gone (and by this point would have been FAR too old for a governess anyways) and had Hallie stayed on she too would have been well into her teenage years and, again, much too old for a governess.
the series cancellation worked out for Jackson probably more than anyone. if it had continued and she been glued to the show via contract for several more years she might not have gone on to greater television stardom in the 70s.
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If the show had been continued in the present, it certainly would've made sense to state that David had been sent off, maybe to an exclusive boarding school. He was still a bit too young for college, but having him attend a British boarding high school would've worked. I imagine Hallie would've hung around and they would've found something for her to do since they needed a younger character. Of course, it would've been utterly ridiculous for her to have a governess. She could've attended Collinsport High. Kate Jackson, if she stayed on, could maybe have been one of her teachers.
Gerard
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If they were really determined to have Kate Jackson play a governess at Collinwood, they could have introduced a new young character who would be living at Collinwood. Who knows who and how he/she would come to be there? And I suppose we'll never know if that was the plan...
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The other story that went around is that the Kate Jackson character would be a secretary/companion to Elizabeth, similar to Daphne Budd in HODS. I seem to remember the name Tracy Harridge being mentioned.
And Diana Millay said that she would have come back as Laura.
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And Diana Millay said that she would have come back as Laura.
I've always found that fascinating. She has said that she would only play Laura, so who knows how Laura would have fit into things? [hdscrt]
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I just don't understand anyone's preference for the "present" in DS. I think they felt obligated to return to the present, but were saddled with a dull set of regular characters, the people at Collinwood, who had to be pushed off to the side and treated as one collective damsel-in-distress to be protected by Barnajulia.
I don't understand sitting through 1968, Leviathans, and PT, and present 1970 again after 1995, and not being extremely relieved and energized by the transition to 1840. The fact that loose ends were forgotten or messed up doesn't affect the story up until those mistakes were made.
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Me too, MB! In retrospect, I wonder if that was a genuine plan for the show or another of Diana's somewhat fluid interpretation of the truth. [itch] [itch]
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I just don't understand anyone's preference for the "present" in DS. I think they felt obligated to return to the present, but were saddled with a dull set of regular characters, the people at Collinwood, who had to be pushed off to the side and treated as one collective damsel-in-distress to be protected by Barnajulia.
I don't understand sitting through 1968, Leviathans, and PT, and present 1970 again after 1995, and not being extremely relieved and energized by the transition to 1840. The fact that loose ends were forgotten or messed up doesn't affect the story up until those mistakes were made.
the show was launched and set primarily in "the present". that was the setting, situations and group of characters the audience got to know best and invest emotionally in. as opposed to various random bunches of "time travel" characters that would all end up being killed off after three months.
what don't you "understand"???
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The way that Dan Curtis and the DS writers interspersed the time travel periods on the show with the contemporary story lines afforded the actors the opportunity to portray other characters, and remain fresh in their performances. I believe that KLS once said that she particularly enjoyed portraying other characters in the various time periods, and not just having to portray Maggie Evans all of the time. Besides, it would have become extremely tiresome to see one current day catastrophe immediately after the other on the show for nearly four and a half years. [ghost_mellow]
One criticism I've had about the 1897 story line, however, the longest time travel story line on DS, is how DC and the writers ended the story, seemingly, so abruptly. I don't believe we ever got to learn what happened to the irrepressible Magda Racosi or to the stuff-shirted Edward or to the shrewish and miserly Judith Collins-Trask for that matter. After nearly nine months, we never got to see what happened to these remaining 1897 era characters, who were always compelling, charming and, at times, even exasperating. [ghost_sad]
As to Maggie's future with the Collins family, DS writer Dale Clark, in his series of superb DS novels, suggested that Maggie became Mrs. Stoddard's personal assistant/aide after David obviously became too old to have a governess anymore. (I think that Dale also suggested that the unfailingly jittery Hallie Stokes left during 1970 to attend a high school somewhere out of Maine.)
Alas, we'll never know what might have happened at current day Collinwood after April of 1971. [ghost_sad] [ghost_wink]
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I have my own theories about what happened to some of the 1897 characters, but it's pure speculation on my part.
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what don't you "understand"???
Just what I said. The present was dull, after the good stretch of the original 1967 Barnabas story. I think the "present" was necessary to anchor everything happening in the past, and give us reason to care about it (with Barnabas being on a mission to help present day characters), but returning to the present always feels like defeat, and going into the past always feels like getting to play in a toy store. The show wakes up. Some of those present day characters were people I could invest emotion in at first, in 1966 and 1967, but they were made bland and dull later. And it was one problematic present day storyline after another. And early 1840 was full of great stuff. Summer 1970 going into 1840 has to be a relief...
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In my version of "if DS had continued" (which I sent to some of you), because of the massive altercation of history by Barnabas/Julia/Eliot, the present would not exist. The three would've returned to a "present" with a totally different family. Everyone they knew and loved would be gone. How could or would they restore it? That was a part of my "if DS had continued."
Gerard
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magnus,
at the end of the day you really can't "explain" a personal preference. it just is what it is.
I enjoy the "present time" episodes. but I see you're going to "prove me wrong".
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I enjoy the "present time" episodes. but I see you're going to "prove me wrong".
Now that would be a very silly thing to try to do, wouldn't it? Yes, it's just a personal preference. All I said was that it was hard for me to understand disliking 1840 so much, not that it was "wrong" to.
DarkLady, fire away please. Where else are you going to let out those theories?!
Gerard, I think 1971 present-day would have been impossible to show onscreen or continue with, too.
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I loved all the "present day" storylines. The final one, Summer of 1970, had mythic status for many years in fandom because Worldvision had not released the final year episodes into syndication so everything that happened immediately after the moment when the regular cast were about to return to complete the PT 1970 storyline was known only through the notes and diary entries that fans had saved from the original broadcast in 1970-71.
The plotting in Summer of 1970 is very jerky but I still think there are some wonderful moments. To enumerate these would involve SPOILERS but perhaps, if I think of it, I will start a "Summer of 1970" thread to list some favorite scenes.
One of my favorite moments of all from the period is when Julia confronts Sebastian at the Old House and realizes [spoiler]that he's in love with Maggie. Grayson plays it all so perfectly, has some great dialogue, and it's a lot of fun to watch Pennock playing off her in the scene.[/spoiler]
Sam Hall's TV guide article suggests one possible plotline that could have been explored had the series done at least one final sequence in 1971.
G.
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Hello, everyone. I finished watching DS in its entirety about a fortnight ago, and decided to join this forum to celebrate.
I look upon 1840 as the "Marnie" of the DS storylines. Much like Hitchcock's 1964 film, it's undoubtedly incredibly flawed, but engrossing, enchanting and constantly thought provoking. It's also integral to the DS mythos in a way that something like 1970PT wasn't. The actual moment of Angelique's death is logical, ironic and tragic all at the same time, rather like a Shakespearean tragedy. However, what I take issue to is the lead up to this, what should have been the development of Barnabas and Angelique's newfound kinship. Now we get a few glimpses of this (the scene where Angelique removes the curse and Barnabas admits that he finally understands his love, and later when Angelique reveals that it is Gerard who in fact is possessed by Judah at Quentin's execution), and they are gems, but there is simply not enough. In fact, I do seem to remember getting an abundance of Judah/Gerard mind-screwing Daphne, which is neither interesting nor integral to the core mythos of the show. Although 1840 had some great ideas, it just seemed like the writers were getting a little lazy.
Oh, by the way, I love the Leviathans. Just want to see where that sits.
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Welcome, BangsnFangs! It's nice to find someone who has newly discovered the show. Those are interesting comments on 1840. I happen to be one for whom Leviathan is my least favorite story!
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Thanks, Josette! And I'm resigned to being in the minority with regards to the Leviathans!
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First of all, welcome BangsnFangs! Secondly, that was a very intelligent, insightful post. Moments like that are one of the things that makes DS so special. I wish there had been more of them.
And, while it isn't my #1 favorite, I have an affection for the Leviathan period as well. It provides Joan Bennett, Nancy Barrett and Dennis Patrick with some fine moments. The scene between Barnabas and Angelique after she has walked out on Sky Rumson is one of my favorite DS moments.
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it seems like there are certain "rules" in this fandom. one of them being disliking (or more often "hating") the leviathan period...
but I actually liked it too. at least the first two thirds of it. like most storylines on DS it eventually fell prey to everything-but-the-kitchen-sink storytelling before being abandoned as an afterthought. but the early weeks of it were wonderfully creepy and atmospheric. it definitely had it's own "feel" quite distinct from any other storylines on the series.
and, again, for various personal and aesthetic reasons in general I prefer the "present day" stories.
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I actually wrote a longish thing once called something like "I love Leviathans." I agree that the first two months are great and the final few weeks--well, it's a wild and woolly ride, with some fabulous moments.
I know most fans hate the storyline but some claim to love every moment of 1795, much of which I find a colossal bore (basically, every time Peter Bradford was onscreen, and starting halfway through, he was in it A LOT). My view now as an older fan is that every DS storyline has its pearls and its dross. I love the entire series because it was so unique and it evolved in such an incredible way.
The whole thing about the "resolution" of Barnabas and Angelique's "love story" in 1840 is another controversial topic, but I'll leave that alone for now.
Welcome to the Boards!
G.
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If the show had been continued in the present, it certainly would've made sense to state that David had been sent off, maybe to an exclusive boarding school. He was still a bit too young for college, but having him attend a British boarding high school would've worked. I imagine Hallie would've hung around and they would've found something for her to do since they needed a younger character. Of course, it would've been utterly ridiculous for her to have a governess. She could've attended Collinsport High. Kate Jackson, if she stayed on, could maybe have been one of her teachers.
Gerard
Your point about David going off to some exclusive boarding school is right on the money. Maybe Roger, being the ultimate snob that he is, would have sent his only son to the decidedly upscale Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts? After all, both George H. W. Bush and his son, George W. Bush, are proud graduates of that fine institution of patrician learning. I believe that some of the Kennedy brothers may have also attended this same school. (Who knows, maybe our current president, Barack H. Obama, may have also attended that tony school during his wide and varied travels across America and literally around the globe during his formative years?) [ghost_huh]
And, I'm sure you'll agree with me that I'd like to have the voluptuous Kate Jackson as my governess, any day of the week!!! [ghost_tongue2] [ghost_wink]
By the way, you might want to check your personal messages here on this site. It would be very nice, if not also extremely polite of you, to respond to any of your cousins, who have taken the time and trouble to send you a p.m.
All the best, your cousin and fellow Dark Shadows "kiddie" (who, is now, unfortunately, eligible for AARP membership), [ghost_sad] [ghost_blink]
Bob
PS Long live the very zaftig Sophie Baker!!! [ghost_grin] [ghost_blink]
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I never, thought, Bob, about having David going, not to some school in Britain, but to that exclusive fong-fong-fong (as the late, great Joan Rivers would call high-falootin' places and mannerisms) school where the Kennedys went. In an epic novel I started writing when the Harper-Collins reboot got off the ground (and then crashed), I had Jamison Collins visiting the Kennedy summer home in Hyannis Port where he was negotiating with Joseph Kennedy about their smuggling operations of bringing booze into America during Prohibition. Joseph Kennedy encourages Jamison to start working now on his small son Roger to make him something great. He points to his own sons and says: "That one's going to be President some day." He was pointing not at John Fitzgerald, but at Joseph Patrick, Jr.
I'll have to check my private e-mails, Bob! I didn't know I missed one of yours!
Gerard
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it seems like there are certain "rules" in this fandom. one of them being disliking (or more often "hating") the leviathan period...
but I actually liked it too. at least the first two thirds of it. like most storylines on DS it eventually fell prey to everything-but-the-kitchen-sink storytelling before being abandoned as an afterthought. but the early weeks of it were wonderfully creepy and atmospheric. it definitely had it's own "feel" quite distinct from any other storylines on the series.
Yeah, the Leviathans definitely fell apart towards the end, which is a shame. I think much of this can be attributed to the absence of Dennis Patrick. Instead, the writers concocted that [spoiler]stupid thing with Jeb Hawkes pushing Vicki off the cliff in 1795, and Peter Bradford wanting revenge, which made absolutely no sense. We also got a lot of Jeb and that ridiculous shadow.[/spoiler]
But yes, the beginning of the Leviathans was definitely a dramatic shift in tone and direction for the series after the madness that was 1897 (and I mean this in the most complementary way possible; I love 1897!). I think it plays a lot better on DVD than it did in the traditional soap opera format. Miss a week and you'd go
from[spoiler]Judith bricking up the good Rev. Trask to being introduced to two entirely new characters
in Philip and Megan Todd, in an entirely new time period, with an entirely new set (the antique shop).[/spoiler]
It certainly would've been disorienting. Additionally, although the Leviathans moves at a deliberate pace, information integral to the plot is revealed in virtually every episode. However, the introduction of the
Leviathans brings a creepy, almost alienating quality to familiar characters like Elizabeth and Carolyn. I also like the "evil" Barnabas we get who's a newly inducted member of the Leviathan cult. It shows that although he's firmly established as the dark hero of the show through his deeds in 1897, he's still not infallible.
The whole thing about the "resolution" of Barnabas and Angelique's "love story" in 1840 is another controversial topic, but I'll leave that alone for now.
Welcome to the Boards!
Thanks, Gothick! Trawling through the forum archives, I could definitely see the Barnabas and Angelique resolution is a divisive topic.
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Welcome, b and f!
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Thank you, Uncle Roger and Magnus. Wow, you guys are certainly a welcoming bunch!
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While not a fan of Leviathan as a whole, it does have one of my favorite episodes. There is the confrontation between Barnabas and Angelique when he first discovers that she is Mrs. Rumson, then her confrontation with Nicholas and finally her confrontation with her husband after she knows the truth. Three fantastic scenes one after the other.
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The scene where [spoiler]Barnabas finally says goodbye to Josette[/spoiler]is probably one of the most poignant in the series for me. [spoiler]Angelique getting revenge over Sky was pretty satisfying, too.[/spoiler] It resolved so many of the issues I had with the story.
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Good morning and welcome, B&F! I'm delighted to find someone else who likes the 1840s storyline. I also like the real-time 1970 lead-in, which was a pretty well-constructed mystery. But 1840 does tie together a lot of loose ends.
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Cheers, DL. Yeah, I didn't mind the 1970 lead in either, more for the fact that we get to spend a bit of time with the present day Collins family than anything else. My only regret is that a number of elements crucial to that story (Rose Cottage, David, Hallie/Tad, Carrie connection) were dropped pretty quickly as 1840 progressed.
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If the program had tied up all of its loose ends, I wonder if it would have anywhere near the intense fandom it has today.
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An interesting question. Perhaps not...
Getting back to another aspect of this topic, it's only natural that we're all going to have our own preferences when it comes to present vs. past storylines. But I've always found it fascinating that back in 1998 when the now defunct DSO(DS Online) on AOL opened voting to all DS fans online, among the hundreds of fans who took part, the Top 3 Favorite storylines were 1795, 1897 and 1840(with 1795 coming out on top). Not one of the present day stories was anywhere near in the running as far as the voting went.
And welcome BangsnFangs! It's great to see you jumping right and not only posting, but posting a topic that's garnered so much interest. [ghost_smiley]
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by contrast The 'Collinsport Historical Society' recently conducted a poll of the 'top ten" DS episodes and nearly every single one was a "present day" episode. a couple of them were even from the "pre-Barnabas" period.
so different polls will yield different results.
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so different polls will yield different results.
As will different questions. It's definitely an interesting phenomenon that often when asked about favorite individual eps rather than entire storylines, fans will pick many from the present day (i.e. the denouement of Laura, Barnabas' release, Julia confronts Barnabas, the seance that transported Vicki to 1795, Barnabas sees the sun for the first time in 172 years, VampAng attacks Barnabas, Quentin takes over Collinwood, etc.) We've certainly seen that here on this forum as well. Though another interesting thing is most of those present day eps will focus mostly on Barnabas and not on the core pre-Barn characters. But then Barn is more popular with most fans than the core pre-Barn characters are. And with that in mind, I have to say that one thing that really shocked me about the DSO voting was that the present day release of Barnabas was nowhere even close to making their Top 3 Favorite storylines.
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And time--real life time--has largely been kind to DS. Many of the same people who loathed the NBC incarnation of DS now cite it as a classic in its own right. And certainly NODS. Has been reevaluated several times since its original release.
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so different polls will yield different results.
As will different questions. It's definitely an interesting phenomenon that often when asked about favorite individual eps rather than entire storylines
So very true. I love 1897 because it had the best written, directed and produced scenes. The reading of Grandmamamama's will is, in my opinion, the best ever filmed. But, for me, the best stories were set in the present because that's the Collins family. So how could I possibly answer a poll? It depends on how it is written.
Gerard
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for a lot of fans 1795 does seem to be some sort of series "holy grail" and I can see why...
it's the point where series "mythology" finally coalesces from random and often divergent bits and pieces into a complete and concise narrative. the fact that it directly contradicts much of the information previously given to the viewer doesn't diminish it's power for most fans. it becomes "canon".
it's also ground zero for the whole concept of 'time travel' and multiple characterizations that the show eventually became known for. the "stock company" approach. it's the first time we get the additional theatricality of period costume and settings.
it's not my personal favorite storyline or period (although I do like it very much) but I get why so many fans hold it in such high esteem.
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1795 widened the scope of the show. From then on, whatever we saw in one time period resonated more with us subconsciously, because of their interactions and relationships with events we'd seen in other times.
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...and it cemented Barnabas as victim.
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Absolutely, dom. And it changed forever any idea that he was totally evil. Imagine what we'd think of him--it we thought of him at all--if DC had had his way and Dr. JuliaN Hoffman staked him before we could get to 1795!
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1795 gives Barnabas real depth. First, by establishing that he comes from a fairly dysfunctional family. Second, by establishing the doomed relationship between him and Josette, which motivates his
character for years to come.
It also introduces Angelique, who will become as pivotal a character as Barnabas.
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The show certainly goes out of its way to paint Barnabas as the victim so far as his curse goes - and in many respects he certainly is. But let's not forget that we never really know the whole story of what went on during those nights in Martinique between Barnabas and Angelique. And I think that was a deliberate choice on the show's part so as to keep the audience on Barn's side and to paint Ang as nearly a complete villain as possible. (Certainly if things had actually played out the way Lara Parker paints the Barn/Ang Martinique dynamic in "Angelique's Descent," Barn would not be the victim and Ang would not be nearly a complete villain - but thankfully the writers of the show had the good sense not to go as far into the backstory as Parker does). And, of course, in other respects Barn is far from the victim because quite often he's the one doing the victimizing, particularly when he insists upon getting his way through psychological intimidation, of which characters like Julia and Willie are all too often the victims. Things with Barn are rarely black and white - there's a whole lot of gray!
However, getting any more deeply into Barn's character is probably a discussion best served in a separate topic because it's way OT for this one, so I'll leave it at that here. [ghost_wink]
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A problem for me recently is that once they established Barnabas's original innocence in 1795, they went on to have him as a sort of "hero" who could get away with anything, only because we the viewers were supposed to reach far back in our memories to a couple years earlier when we saw him cursed.
I like it and I don't. What if [spoiler]he had killed Carl[/spoiler] without our ever having seen 1795?
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by late 1968 Barnabas had become sort of a snooze. a vampire who wasn't a vampire...
so returning him to the "vampire state" in 1897 (a period in which Adam was not extant) was a way to give the character some "blood" again so to speak. there was a reason he always became a vampire again when the storyline shifted to another time period. you can't have a "vampire show" without a vampire.
[spoiler]so to me it's not that surprising that he killed Carl. he was, after all, a vampire again. and that is not without an intrinsic element of dangerousness and unpredictability. besides Carl was a "time travel" character. they're basically created with a built in shelf life. by the end of the period most of them usually end up dead anyways. and he was only in a few episodes and not very important to the overall plot so who really cares???[/spoiler]
all of the fuss that particular incident creates within the fanbase has always mystified me.
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by late 1968 Barnabas had become sort of a snooze. a vampire who wasn't a vampire...
so returning him to the "vampire state" in 1897 (a period in which Adam was not extant) was a way to give the character some "blood" again so to speak. there was a reason he always became a vampire again when the storyline shifted to another time period. you can't have a "vampire show" without a vampire.
[spoiler]so to me it's not that surprising that he killed Carl. he was, after all, a vampire again. and that is not without an intrinsic element of dangerousness and unpredictability. besides Carl was a "time travel" character. they're basically created with a built in shelf life. by the end of the period most of them usually end up dead anyways. and he was only in a few episodes and not very important to the overall plot so who really cares???[/spoiler]
all of the fuss that particular incident creates within the fanbase has always mystified me.
That's interesting because I've never seen Dark Shadows as a "vampire" show. After watching 1225 episodes, I'm still unsure exactly how to define it, but in broad terms for me it's a show about the strength of family and the power of love in overcoming overwhelming and almost impossible odds. This is quite trite and cliched, but at the moment it's the best way I can put it.
As for Barnabas, his vampirism is only a small part of his appeal for me. Angelique's curse exposes all of Barnabas' flaws: his poor and decidedly indecisive decision making, his immature and misguided love for Josette, and his dishonesty. The 1795 illustrates all this brilliantly. But I think Barnabas becomes even more interesting when he's cured of his vampirism. He's been cured, but he still has all his same hang ups. We see him kinda sorta trying to work through them throughout Adam/the Dream Curse, as he begins to start thinking less selfishly. The moment he spares Jeff Clark's life for Vicki (I think that's what happened; it's been a while) is an example of this. Fighting Quentin's ghost is really the first time we see this put into action when he works in a positive, proactive, selfless manner to protect the Collins family. As for 1897, yes, he's a vampire again, but I've always gotten the feeling that for whatever reason (increased maturity, maybe) he had a certain degree of mastery over it. In saying that (I hate that phrase, but there it is), the killing of Carl never really bothered me (from Barnabas' character's standpoint that is; from a storyline perspective it really bummed me out; I loved Carl). I've always seen Barnabas at that point of the story as sort of like a dormant volcano that hasn't erupted in a while, but always has the potential to. Those two aspects really added dimension to the character. We see the same thing in the Leviathans, which is why I like it.
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perhaps "vampire show" is a greatly oversimplified assessment...
but it was a significant component of it. and one that the producers must have known was important. I think it was one reason why in 1968, after Barnabas had been "cured" for awhile, Cassandra was jettisoned in favor of "Vampirelique" and Tom Jennings was shoehorned into the mix. the "vampire element" was missing.
and apart from the emotional impact of being returned to the "vampire state" whenever the time period shifted (and Barnabas' ensuing anguish over it) I think the writers saw it as an opportunity to reestablish a part of the character that was important.
by 1968 they had plastic fangs, Halloween costumes and lunchboxes to market featuring a vampire. not just some middle aged suit wearing guy worrying about his family. it was an important component of the "brand" and business side of the enterprise.
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and I was hooked on the show from episode one. way before anybody ever thought or heard about Barnabas Collins.
so the "vampire element", and in fact the character of Barnabas itself, is only a small part of the whole mosaic for me as well.
but Curtis and the show's producers knew what their "hook" was and needed to capitalize on it.
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The fact that more or less every time DS shows up in the mass media (outside of fandom specific sites and fora) we see a photo of Barn baring his fangs does underline the fact that in the minds of the public... it's a vampire show.
A long time ago (maybe as early as the 1970s) I finally figured out that how DS is represented in the mass media and promotional goodies, such as the Gold Key comics and the board games, is very different from the reality of the show's actual content as seen in canon (the aired episodes from 1966 to 1971).
Even the "Marilyn" Ross novelettes present a picture of the subject matter of the show that is very much at odds with how the actual episodes are written and played. I well remember when the novel "Barnabas Collins" was published and I bought and was reading it and some version of "who the hell is this guy?" was going through my 11 year old's mind.
G.
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It IS a big deal to have the main character of a show, who was thought of as the hero not the villain, murder an innocent cousin to keep his secret from being found out (and doing it in such a sloppy impulsive way that it didn't even work).
I agree that after one has thought long and hard about it, it does make the character and story much more interesting.
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The fact that more or less every time DS shows up in the mass media (outside of fandom specific sites and fora) we see a photo of Barn baring his fangs does underline the fact that in the minds of the public... it's a vampire show.
A long time ago (maybe as early as the 1970s) I finally figured out that how DS is represented in the mass media and promotional goodies, such as the Gold Key comics and the board games, is very different from the reality of the show's actual content as seen in canon (the aired episodes from 1966 to 1971).
Even the "Marilyn" Ross novelettes present a picture of the subject matter of the show that is very much at odds with how the actual episodes are written and played. I well remember when the novel "Barnabas Collins" was published and I bought and was reading it and some version of "who the hell is this guy?" was going through my 11 year old's mind.
your remarks certainly bring to mind the way Julia was handled in the marketing/promotional juggernaut and continues to be til this day.
lets face it. a middle aged lady doctor in a green tweed suit does not a bobble head make. or a lunchbox. or a board game. or a Halloween costume.
but you know what does??? a vampire. a werewolf. and a witch. thus those three characters became the faces of the "brand" in terms of marketing and merchandising. even though on the series itself Julia was with the show longer than either Quentin or Angelique, appeared in more episodes, and was more important to more storylines. she's not easy to "market". she does not reduce well to 8'' "action figure" size.
so she largely gets left out of that component of the whole thing while the other 3, more easily marketable "monster" type characters, are front and center of the product lineup.
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Funny, I hadn't realized 'til now that I don't think of Quentin as the werewolf of Dark Shadows.
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Same here - probably because Quentin was a werewolf for such a short time before he was cured. When I think of the werewolf, I tend to always associate it with Chris. And when I think of Quentin, I tend to associate him more with the Dorian Grey aspect of his character.
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While Julia is pivotal to the program, she is largely excluded from the surrounding merchandise. If memory serves me correctly, most of the women were largely overlooked. The only women who seemed to get some coverage in the teen mags that I was reading at the time were Lara, KLS and Denise Nickerson.
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Grayson got some coverage in 16. There was a priceless page that showed Grayson Hall at home. The other soap mags did similar features on her. Grayson was one of the very few cool middle-aged ladies around in that era. Mama Cowsill, may she rest in peace, was another.
This is off topic, but for those in my age range--we all remember Mrs. Miller, "the singing Grandmother." I found a clip on Youtube recently where Mrs. Miller shows up on a teen rock program and the kids go wild for her. It was hilarious. Roddy MacDowell played some Phil Spector type producer who had the singing Grandmother summoned to his office to talk about a contract.
It all feels like things that happened in a previous incarnation, at this point...
G.
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Same here - probably because Quentin was a werewolf for such a short time before he was cured. When I think of the werewolf, I tend to always associate it with Chris. And when I think of Quentin, I tend to associate him more with the Dorian Grey aspect of his character.
I came into DS through the first year of syndication, the Ross novels, and the comics. For me, Quentin was a werewolf, first and foremost. I had no idea about the portrait until about 7 or 8 years later. I was surprised that he was not always the werewolf as that's how the licensing depicted him.
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even recent spinoff media...such as Lara Parker's 'wolf moon rising' and the defunct 'dynamite' DS comic book series...present Quentin in some sort of werewolf context.
so even though on the series itself both Barnabas and Quentin spent significant time (if not in fact most of the time) in some "altered state" in terms of media coverage, marketing and promotion, toys and licensing deals, etc. Barnabas as a vampire and Quentin as a werewolf is definitely how the "brand" is represented.
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Good point, michaelc. It seems that the vampire element was more exploitable as Barnabas is periodically a vampire throughout the series, though Quentin never becomes a werewolf again.
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I don't remember Quentin being marketed as a werewolf, only as a ladies man with big sideburns. I do remember him being touted as a zombie though. I don't think he was even the werewolf in the green card series. Of course, that's just my memory.
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Dom I think you're right. There was maybe one werewolf shot in one of the card series but I think it was meant to be Chris Jennings. I never saw those cards at all back in the day. The one with Nicholas is from that. So I guess there were three gum card series all told; as far as I remember, I only ever saw the series with images from the 1967 Barnabas and Maggie shows, which I had never seen when I collected them.
G.
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I don't remember Quentin being marketed as a werewolf, only as a ladies man with big sideburns. I do remember him being touted as a zombie though. I don't think he was even the werewolf in the green card series. Of course, that's just my memory.
Quentin was a werewolf in every Ross novel in which he appeared as well as the Gold Key comics. The Groovy Horror Heads named the werewolf one Quentin. I was shocked when I heard the audio of NODS and discovered it was not a werewolf story. CBS showed it too late for me to watch it, so a friend audiotaped it and talked me through the visuals. At that point WLVI 56 had just finiished showing the first year of syndicated episodes in April, and NODS aired in June. I'd read many of the Ross novels and some of the comics. Although I'd never seen the horror heads commercial, I'd always thought Quentin was as much the werewolf of the show as Barnabas was the vampire.
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I read the Ross books but I barely remember any of them. Wasn't there one where Quentin was disguised as a groovy, "dirty" hippie?
I saw a copy of THE FOE OF BARNABAS COLLINS in a sandwich shop in Potsdam, NY several years ago and made a note to purchase a copy online at some point, but have never gotten around to it. The cover photo was a beautifully accomplished shot of Barnabas. That might have been the one where someone named Christopher Jennings was a coldly eeee-vil schemer out to work mischief on some wretched pouting, fainting ingenue.
G.
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I believe you're right, Gothick. It's also the only time that Angelique puts in an appearance in the Ross novels, choosing to torment Barnabas by looking exactly the way she did when they first met. With raven hair and olive skin.
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LOL! Given that Lara Parker's complexion commingles the fairest porcelain and the most delicate rose, I always found the description of the "olive-skinned" Angelique very confusing. But then, so many of those books did not make sense... unless I tried to forget that the stories bore ANY RELATIONSHIP WHATSOEVER to what I had seen on television...
G.
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I believe you're right, Gothick. It's also the only time that Angelique puts in an appearance in the Ross novels, choosing to torment Barnabas by looking exactly the way she did when they first met. With raven hair and olive skin.
interesting...
I only have a few of the early Victoria-centered Ross novels. I assumed Angelique became a major player in the later ones like she did on the series. she only appeared in one???
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Yes, that's pretty much it for Angelique in the series. This is also the only appearance of Chris Jennings as well. But it's not the likeable sad sack from the series. This Chris had deliberately killed his first wife when in werewolf mode andwasplanning to kill wife #2. The book is set in 1910 (or thereabouts) but Chris is referred to as Amy brother in a couple of the later books.
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in one that I read liz and roger have a brother named "professor veno"...
the ross novels really function in some sort of alternate universe.
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Much ado is made about Professor Mark Veno/Collins and his daughter Linda but they never appear again. Or mentioned.
Are you familiar with Ross' proposal for a book that never got written? It married Vicki off to her back from the dead fiancée, Ernest Collins? It was also going to resolve the issue of Vicki's parentage. But, contrary to most other speculation, she wasn't going to be Elizabeth's daughter. Ross was going to make her the daughter of Barnabas !
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That's fascinating, Uncle Roger. I never had heard about that.
I remember finding Julia's one appearance in the books very odd. Was Professor Stokes in that one as well? Julia was portrayed as this jealous, shrewish harpy.
As far as I am concerned, the Ross books are promotional materials, end of story. Their relationship to the Universe of canon (the aired episodes of the 1966-71 series) does not extend beyond the recycling of a few names and the cover photos.
I realize that other fans may disagree--and that is every fan's prerogative, of course.
G.
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Gothick, if I remember correctly, Stokes was Julia's partner in the Hoffman Clinic. Whatever that was. I do recall a very odd conversation in one of the books between Julia & Elizabeth regarding "mod" fashion.
If nothing else, it does prove that you can't judge a book by its cover. Some of them, both the paintings and photos, are gorgeous.
Dan Ross aka Marilyn appeared at several of the early Newark festivals in the early 1980's. I never met. I had no idea what I could possibly say to him.
And uber DS fan Jeff Thompson earned his PhD by doing a dissertation on the collected works of Marilyn Ross.
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I won't swear to it,but I believe Julia was in at least two of the Ross novels. I think they were B, Q, and the Body Snatchers and the Sea Ghost. Anyone know for sure?
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Now that you mention it, I think that the fashion discussion between the ladies takes place in Body Snatchers. The Hoffman clinic may well be in Sea Ghost.
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the ross novels seem more "inspired by" the series than actually a cohesive part of it...
to be fair coordinating the publishing of these books with the day-to-day plotting of a shot live serial that basically made itself up as it went along would have been almost impossible in terms of continuity.
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Isn't BARNABAS, QUENTIN AND THE BODY SNATCHERS the one that's hard to come by? I'm not sure I ever read that one. The one I remember had Barnabas and the latest ingenue visiting Julia at her clinic.
I remember reading somewhere that "Marilyn" was only ever given the script of episode 1, but somebody must have sent him updated notes on later characters--such as Quentin.
G.
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In discussing the pluses and minuses of the various DS story lines, I've also often wondered about the origins and backstories of some of the characters we got to meet over the course of the show's run.
For example, regarding the much maligned and, conversely, the highly praised Leviathan story line, I've wondered what some of the Leviathan "irregulars" did before they apparently met Mr. Strak (an apparent Leviathan "regular") and signed up with him and the Leviathan cult. I believe that Nell Gunston told Barnabas (before he "offed" her) that she hailed from one of the southern states, perhaps Kentucky or Virginia? Yet, we did not find out what Ms. Gunston was doing when she met the unfailingly charming and convincing Bruno Hess in her southern home town.
And, what about the enigmatic Mr. Hess? Aside from the fact that he apparently wanted to emulate the "Marlboro Man" from those classic 1960s cigarette tv commercials, what with that snazzy shearling coat of his, just where did Jeb Hawkes' right-hand-man hail from. Did we ever find out? (I don't think so.) [hall_undecided]
As to what an alpha-male type like Bruno Hess did for a living, I've theorized over the years that perhaps Bruno held an especially exciting and rewarding position, say, like managing an adult bookstore in Lakewood, New Jersey or possibly in downtown Gary, Indiana. [hall_huh] [hall_rolleyes]
Of course, the Todds did not willingly join the Leviathans like Nell and Bruno did, but I wonder where this extremely attractive, young couple hailed from before making the ultimately deadly decision to move to the charming New England fishing village of Collinsport, Maine? [hall2_huh] Might Phillip and Megan have originally come from Truth or Consequences, New Mexico or even Podunk, Iowa? Quien sabe? [hall_huh] [hall_cheesy]
Bob
PS And a hale and hearty welcome to BangsnFangs!!! [hall2_grin] [skull_winks] [hall_grin] [128]
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the leviathan storyline definitely gets a lot more flack from fans that it really deserves...
it was deeply flawed to be sure. but most DS storylines were. but there's sort of this alternate universe "truth" in the fandom that it was the "reason" the series was cancelled.
the fact that it ran for another year and was actually cancelled in a time period that had nothing whatsoever to do with it (incidentally a "time travel" storyline for those who insist they were "better" than the "present day" episodes) gets ignored. it part of fan lore.
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Joan Bennett appeared on a television talk show in NYC several years after DS went off the air, and in response to a question as to why the show had been cancelled, Ms. Bennett replied that "Dan Curtis and the DS writers had simply run out of ideas by the early part of 1971." [hall_cry] [hall_wink]
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that pretty much sums it up...
but for some reason 'leviathan' has become the scapegoat in the story.
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There was an outside factor that contributed to the downfall of DS. CBS scheduled reruns of Gomer Pyle opposite the show. Gomer is somewhat forgotten today but back then it was highly successful.
The Leviathan story gets a bad rap but it is not without merit. It would be interesting to see where the story would have gone if they hadn't needed to clear most of the core actors for HODS.
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There was an outside factor that contributed to the downfall of DS. CBS scheduled reruns of Gomer Pyle opposite the show. Gomer is somewhat forgotten today but back then it was highly successful.
The Leviathan story gets a bad rap but it is not without merit. It would be interesting to see where the story would have gone if they hadn't needed to clear most of the core actors for HODS.
Gomer Pyle and Dameon Edwards: Separated at birth? [8_1_209]
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Hey, Bob, can you just imagine what might have happened if the late, great Joan Rivers and the fashion police had gotten to critique the sartorial splendour of Gomer and Damion?
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I have never heard that Leviathans got the show cancelled. Maybe fans have said that it was the beginning of the end, something like that.
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Hey, Bob, can you just imagine what might have happened if the late, great Joan Rivers and the fashion police had gotten to critique the sartorial splendour of Gomer and Damion?
Uncle Roger,
Yes, that would have been absolutely FANTASTIC to have seen the late, great Ms. Rivers & company, critiquing the fashion "sense" of Gomer, Damion and many of the other DS luminaries! [hall_grin]
Can you imagine Ms. Rivers dishing on PT (I think) Angelique's red floral dress or that atrocious zoot suit, that "Mr. Nice Guy," John Yeager, once wore on one of his trips to The Eagle? Ugh!!! [hall2_lipsrsealed] [hall2_shocked]
I think that that gruesome leisure suit that Damion Edwards wore while he was haunting Collinwood may very well have been a hand-me-down from the great king of disco music, the inimitable Sir Monte Rock III. [hall_grin]
We miss you, Joan!!
Bob
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I've never understood this nonsense about the Leviathans being the "beginning of the end". Coming right after the awesomeness that was 1897, of course it's going to pale in comparison. It also didn't help that the transition between the two was so abrupt. Although I have some reservations regarding Leviathans (namely the final two weeks) and I wouldn't included among the creme de la creme of Dark Shadows, it also weirdly personifies everything I love about the show. Jonathan Frid gives his creepiest and most effective performance since 1795, the lighting is suitably atmospheric, and I really dig the more deliberate pace. Although it was a severe narrative misstep, the whole revelation that [spoiler]the haunting of Jeb came as a result of Peter Bradford's revenge at him pushing Vicki off Widows' Hill [/spoiler] both angered me in terms of how impossible the whole bloody thing was (I won't even bother getting into the logistics of it), while at the same time impressing me that the show had by this time built up such an extensive and intricate lore.
Anyway, if the show loses direction anywhere, it's with 1970PT. I've always thought the idea was great in theory but sketchy in execution. The idea of a PT Barnabas that was never cursed as a vampire was fantastic, but should have received more focus. The idea is presented but quickly dropped. It's such a shame because it would have provided a great link with regular time and a reason to care. Instead, what we're left with is a bunch of characters with problems that have no bearing on the main narrative. I'm sure much of this can be attributed to JF's and other core members of the cast's involvement in HODS, but they could have found a way around this.
But that's enough of my ranting.
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There are some great moments in the Leviathan story. There are some wonderfully snarky scenes between Elizabeth & Paul. I wish there had been more of them.
And it has one of my favorite DS moments of all time. After Angelique has left Sky, she and Barnabas have a great scene at the old house. She is genuinely shocked and saddened to see that he has been cursed again. There is no anger between them and he seems to have forgiven her. It's a nice moment. It seems far more natural that their last scenes in 1840.
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There are some great moments in the Leviathan story. There are some wonderfully snarky scenes between Elizabeth & Paul. I wish there had been more of them.
And it has one of my favorite DS moments of all time. After Angelique has left Sky, she and Barnabas have a great scene at the old house. She is genuinely shocked and saddened to see that he has been cursed again. There is no anger between them and he seems to have forgiven her. It's a nice moment. It seems far more natural that their last scenes in 1840.
Yes, it's such a shame that Dennis Patrick had to leave to pursue other projects. I wish the Paul Stoddard angle had been explored more.
The death of Sky was so satisfying in so many ways. A definite highlight for me as well.
My thoughts on Barnabas and Angelique's final scenes in 1840 differ a bit from yours, but I won't get into it for fear of opening a can of worms.
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Although it was a severe narrative misstep, the whole revelation that [spoiler]the haunting of Jeb came as a result of Peter Bradford's revenge at him pushing Vicki off Widows' Hill [/spoiler] both angered me in terms of how impossible the whole bloody thing was (I won't even bother getting into the logistics of it), while at the same time impressing me that the show had by this time built up such an extensive and intricate lore.
That last part I'll agree with. The worldbuilding is something to be proud of.
Leviathans started out fascinating, for someone who doesn't know where it's going. I had no memory of it from childhood, watching in 2002, and anything seemed possible. The scale of the story enlarged so much. It wasn't just characters in some small town at risk, but the world. It even seemed possible to me that aliens might be involved. It was great, not knowing.
I would say that as it turned out though, it was the beginning of the end, except that DS had been so uneven up until this point that really, it was just another problematic, partly embarrassing storyline, like 1968. DS hadn't just had unbroken years of brilliance, only jumping the shark with Leviathans... it had been that uneven and disappointing before.
[candle_in_skull] [candle_in_skull] [candle_in_skull]