DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '03 II => Topic started by: Julia99 on December 07, 2003, 10:08:56 PM
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The earrings!
and yours??? ???
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There's not much I cared for. I did like the scenes between Grayson and Karlen, especially near the end as the relationship between Julia and Kendrick evolves.
Bette
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and yours??? ???
The scenery! The PT room looks so pretty and colorful compared to the rest of the house and the other time periods.
Other than that, I really didn't care all that much for this storyline, but I've only seen it once, so maybe viewing it a second time might change that.
Cassandra
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My favorite thing of 1841 PT is Bramwell's love for Cathrine, in this storyline he is chasing her, although I understand they are two different people in Parallel Time, I find it easy to imagine, they are Barnabas and Angelique and this time he is wanting her instead of the other way round, I find that very refreshing. ;D
Sarah's [ghost]
I also love the Christmas decorations on the forum, so wintery I can almost hear the sleigh bells approaching Collinwood. :D
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I know I'm in the minority, but there are quite a few things that I enjoy about this storyline.
One thing that's certainly high on my list is the characterization of Julia Collins. She's often depicted as a more hardened person than we're generally used to seeing on DS - at times going so far as being a first class bitch. Yes, we've seen bitches before (Samantha being the latest and perhaps even the greatest, simply because her bitchiness was a purely human frailty and in no way induced by some sort of supernatural element to her character), but there seems to be an even more hardened edge to Julia. And Grayson plays the role so well. But then, should that actually surprise anyone? [wink2]
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Thanks, MB, for those wonderful words about Grayson's performance as Julia Collins. For me, Julia is *the* highlight of PT 1841.
I also agree with Bette about the scenes between Grayson and Karlen. They are simply wonderful together! I wish the story had ended with the two characters eloping together.
Least favorite characters--probably a 3 way tie between Catherine, Mama Josette, and Carrie!
G.
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I watched the scene yesterday where Julia escorted Catherine out of the house. . she does come across as a total bitch but you know . .really she just wants to spare the girl her life or sanity. . .she's really, down underneath it all, a pretty selfless lady. . .that Julia Collins, shucks!
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I'm one of the few who like 1841. Briefly, the references to plague, the mystery of the room, the curse, and the lottery ... and I really liked when the secret room was discovered and what was found there deep within the Collinwood mansion.
Besides this, I felt the storyline was an appropriate ending to the series, as I've talked about in the past.
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I have really come to appreciate and enjoy PT1841, especially after viewing it several times. Of course, when I first saw it during its original air in 1971, I didn't, since there was no Barnabas. It seemed that no matter what time a story was set in, all the performers could play other characters, and make it all fun for the viewer, but there had to be Barnabas. Now I see it differently.
Wednesday's episodes demonstrate how actually very good it really is. There was good acting, wonderful directing, even the costumes and sets were vivid. But the one thing that I noted was how intense the performers were in their parts. For the first time in a long, long, long time, Jonathan Frid said his lines with such clarity and emotion, not once stumbling over them, doing a Ralph Cramden mah-mah-mah-mah trying to spit the right one out, or stalling while desperately hunting for the teleprompter. I surmise the reason why was because Mr. Frid was given what he always wanted: a different character. So he went at the part with such vigor; it wasn't the same-old same-old to him. And then there was one moment which I kept rewinding over and over again: when Flora says about the curse: "It would follow us......you know that." Just the way she said those last three words with the conviction of futility and resignation. And the whole story has such a gothic tone about it, a true gothic tone. Such an air of - I don't know what to call it - darkness and despair hangs over that tragic family; you can just feel it. Another one of my favorite scenes, of Melanie pounding on those cobweb covered doors, crying out in madness: "Let me in! Let me in! I want to be with you!" just curdled my blood. To me, it all has the look of a Roger Corman/Vincent Price/Edgar Allen Poe movie in lush color and atmospheric gloom from the '60's.
Gerard
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I know what I enjoy about 1841 pt -----
Bramwell's hair! It's so sexy without all the usual Vitalis in it. I think JF looks quite handsome AND he's doing a much better job with lines, emotion, etc.
What I find rather thought-provoking about this parallel time is how Melanie can be playing a piece of music that hadn't even been written yet! LOL Now THAT'S magical.
Just goes to prove that the laws of physics are different in this time-band. AND it proves that 1840 Quentin was right in his theories on time which he wrote about in his journal - that there IS no such thing as time...only space.
(He was way ahead of Einstein in this regard.)
;)
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Connie, I agree that Bramwell's hair looks so much nicer. You could run your fingers through it without having to wash your hands afterwards. However, Barnabas didn't seem like a man who would let you run your fingers through his hair.
I am glad you mention about the music Melanie was playing. It crossed my mind as I listened to it. I think it sounded more appropriate for the time than say 'Joanna's theme' which sounded more like late 60's lounge music.
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What I find rather thought-provoking about this parallel time is how Melanie can be playing a piece of music that hadn't even been written yet! LOL Now THAT'S magical.
How do we know that it wasn't written yet?
The thing about Parallel Time is that many things may be identical to our own band of time, but many will also be different. Who's to say when a particular piece of music was written or even by whom? (Well, unless it's specifically mentioned within the storyline itself.) And by that same token, who's to say what path fashion took in this band of time. In the past, several fans have been highly critical of Mary McKinley Hass' costumes, saying many aren't correct to the period. But the thing to keep in mind is correct to which period? Simply because they may not be correct to fashion as we know it in RT, it doesn't necessarily follow that that same evolutionary path of fashion took place in the exact same way in any band of PT. That's one of the really fun things about PT - almost anything, from the time a piece of music was written to the way fashion evolved, is up to anyone's imagination ;)
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What I find rather thought-provoking about this parallel time is how Melanie can be playing a piece of music that hadn't even been written yet! LOL Now THAT'S magical.
Oh how funny! I got so into the music while rewatching that scene the other day (a former mentor [and DS fan] routinely assigns an exercise of listening to Chopin's Nocturnes at least 100 times each, and in addition to helping with my poetry writing it opened up the world of classical music to me) that I completely forgot about that. According to the timeline provided by The Chopin Foundation of the US (http://www.pulaskiparade.com/99/chopin.html), he didn't begin writing his final Ballade until 1841-1842. More's the pity that it doesn't state if this is RT or PT. ;)
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According to the timeline provided by The Chopin Foundation of the US, he didn't begin writing his final Ballade until 1841-1842. More's the pity that it doesn't state if this is RT or PT. ;)
I think it's almost an absolute certainty that they would be strictly referring to RT dates. [wink2]
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How do we know that it wasn't written yet?
The thing about Parallel Time is that many things may be identical to our own band of time, but many will also be different. Who's to say when a particular piece of music was written or even by whom?
Well, I happen to be very familiar with that particular piece. The small snippet we hear is from a Chopin Ballade, Opus 52 No. 4.
He wrote it during the summer of 1842 and it wasn't published until 1843. ;) (Hey, but who's counting.) LOL
According to the timeline provided by (URL), he didn't begin writing it until 1841-1842. More's the pity that it doesn't state if this is RT or PT. ;)
Wow. Can you imagine if there really were a whole body of work written in parallel time as well?? Chopin died at such a young age that I've always wondered what wonderful stuff we could have had, had he lived longer.
(Oh, but wait.....ya never know. His parallel counterpart might have ended up being someone like Bruno Hess or something)
:o :o :o :o
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I happen to be very familiar with that particular piece. The small snippet we hear is from a Chopin Ballade, Opus 52 No. 4.
He wrote it during the summer of 1842 and it wasn't published until 1843. ;)
Really not trying to press the point beyond credibility (after all, though the current physics of string theory proves mathematically that parallel universes can and probably do exist (not to mention that there are actually 11 dimensions and not merely the 4 we're aware of (height, width, depth & time)), it's not like anyone has (publicly, anyway ;)) revealed that they've actually crossed into one :D), but you're very familiar with the history of the RT version, which is not necessarily the history of any PT version. It may be - or it may not be. And unfortunately we'll never know for certain which way it is in 1841PT. [b003]
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Some time ago, I created in my warped little mind my concept as to how things "on a grander scale" were different in PT and in RT. For example, I envisioned in PT (at least in the 1970 version) that history was different. In 1914, World War I was averted. The Austro-Hungarian Empire remained intact, all the way to 1970, although the various nations comprising it were autonomous; it was more like a federation of nations rather than an Empire. There was an upheavel in the Russian Empire, but without the instability of WWI, it did not extend to Bolshevism; rather, it modernized into a consitutional monarchy like Great Britain, with many internal reforms. Of course, Hitler never rose to power in Germany and there was no World War II. And so forth and so on. Guess it doesn't take much to amuse me.
Back in the early 90's, there was a novel (can't remember the author now) called Fatherland. It was a "what-if" novel: what if Nazi Germany had not been defeated? I believe the premise was that the Nazis developed nuclear weapons at the exact same time that America did, so the war ended in a stalemate, with Germany controlling virtually all of Europe right past Moscow. It was set in the early 60's (Joe Kennedy, Sr., was the president of the USA), and the plot revolved around a journalist, who was in Berlin to cover a big celebration of Hitler's 75th birthday, and stumbled upon what seemed to be just your basic, run-of-the-mill murder case. But it turns out that the murder had to do with keeping something covered up for decades: the Holocaust. Every vestige of the mass murders had been eraticated, including the death camps which had been dissassembled leaving absolutely no evidence once they had done the horrible things they were designed to do. But some documents were forgotten, not destroyed, so the race was on to get them out of 1964 Nazi Germany before they, too, are destroyed. It's not only an exciting novel, but fascinating in its perception of its own Parallel Time world.
Gerard
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Hi Connie, looks like we share something else in common... I'm really very fond of Chopin's Nocturnes. I like a lot of his other music, as well, including some of the Ballades.
G.
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My favorite thing about 1841PT is definatly the character of Melanie Collins. Nancy played all of her characters with the same charm and somewhat spunk and I really enjoy her work on the show.
My LEAST favorite thing, and perhaps my least favorite character of all of DS's history, is WITHOUT A DOUBT the character Morgan Collins. Ugh I hate him. Did you see the part where he asked Catherine where Daph was and she said that she was at Bramwell's and he's like "But she knows Bramwell is my enemy!" SO WHAT?! Daphne is not your slave Morgan! She can see whomever she wants! She's a grown woman! Just because you hate Bramwell doesn't mean that your in-laws must hate him too! The nerve of him! And another thing, Morggie: BACK OFF THE MELANIE
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Did you see the part where he asked Catherine where Daph was and she said that she was at Bramwell's and he's like "But she knows Bramwell is my enemy!" SO WHAT?! Daphne is not your slave Morgan! She can see whomever she wants! She's a grown woman! Just because you hate Bramwell doesn't mean that your in-laws must hate him too! The nerve of him! And another thing, Morggie: BACK OFF THE MELANIE
I wonder which writer came up with that lame line and what it meant about living with him .. .??? ;D
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My favorite thing about 1841PT is definatly the character of Melanie Collins.
My LEAST favorite thing, and perhaps my least favorite character of all of DS's history, is WITHOUT A DOUBT the character Morgan Collins.
I agree with you on both counts. I really like Melanie, and Nancy Barrett shines in the role. I can't wait to see her saga unfold on the few episodes Sci-Fi is going to air over the next two weeks (and on the MPI tapes, too).
Unlike what seems to be the majority, I love 1841PT. I find it to be really enjoyable and I personally think that it has a good storyline. It reminds me of the earlier days in the show, before they started piling on all the various supernatural creatures.
Morgan is so annoying and irritating. I hate how he's a control freak, and he bosses others around way too much. I was hoping Bramwell would shoot him during the duel. *sighs*
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One of the ironic things for me is that 1841 is the only storyline I did not see in its original run. During 1840, the 2 local ABC affiliates in central and eastern Virginia took it off the afternoon slot and ran all 5 episodes together weekly at either Friday night at 11:30 pm or Sunday afternoon, respectively. At age 10, I rarely made past all 5 episodes on Friday night and I was at the whim of my family's plans on Sunday afternoons. With that said, I finally saw all of 1840 and 1841 on SciFi in :D 1997.
On the down side, I agree with many of you that Morgan is not one of DS's stronger characters. [spoiler]The only real good thing is that the character does not start out as a villain, but grows into one.[/spoiler]Nonetheless, I find Keith Prentice's style to be playing Morgan one step away from throwing a 3 year old's tantrum; he constantly looks like he has a full bladder with no relief in sight. (Insert your favorite "there are no bathrooms in Collinwood" joke here.) ;)
Likewise, there is the obvious point of having none of our real favorite characters actually carried over, only a "what if" story to epilogue the series with.
On the positive side, I think that not only Frid get to show his skill playing a very different character, but this is one of Lara Parker's shining moments on the series. She is my favorite performance here. She looks radiant throughout the story. She shows a genuine range that makes you wonder why she never achieved stardom in prime time.
Now, I don't find that Daphne and Bramwell to really have the chemistry that Lara and Jonathan always have, but I think Kate Jackson shows a good actress in the making by selling the character of Daphne with sincerity. I do believe Daphne loves Bramwell.
Now, neither David Selby or Chris Pennock have as much to work with in the story like in 1840. Perhaps since this was designed as a last hurrah for Jonathan and David's sudden exit due to appendicitis.
I have begun to wonder if the story could have been better with Jerry Lacey as Morgan, which would have been a nice triangle after the Barnabas/Angelique/Trask history. Obviously, the Trask corpse event would have had to have been written quite differently. Imagine though, how curious it would have been for Julia and Flora to have found Morgan's double dead. Or would Trask have been passed over into 1841 at all? The hiring of Keith Prentice sometimes makes me wonder if the definite cancelation of Dark Shadows was determined at the start of that story. It makes me wonder if they, if only briefly considered going on without Jonathan. ::)
The last thing I really like about 1841 is that the writing is still very strong. I think the plots and scripting are still very good. The post complaring this to a Price/Corman/Poe film are apt. Now if ONLY they had gotten Vincent Price to play Justin!!!!!! Hey Dan, couldn't you have afforded him for just 3 days??? :-
I think John Karlen and Nancy Barrett made a great couple in this story as well. That's why I certain they also were cast as a couple in NODS.
Gotta go, Christmas dinner is ready. Merry Christmas!! :D
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:) The problem with 1841 PT was the removal of all the story elements that made the show work... I think that was probably their best bet, all things considered. So, it went back to the pre-Laura gothic with a hint of supernatural elements (and had similar success).
??? But, the real reason for my posting is to wonder about the stuff being said about Keith Prentice. I liked his madness. I think he was one of the better things about 1841 PT... I liked Morgan as far as that character went. I liked Pennock's Gabriel, too. I thought Karlen and Barrett were wonderful, as always.
::) What didn't work, for me, was the relationship between Bramwell & Catherine. I think it was just so... dumb. Especially her, did she love him or not... who knew... who cared! I didn't like them not being Barnabas and Angelique, of course, but after you get past that, and judge the work on its own, the whole thing didn't work.
8) I did like the Bramwell & Daphne thing. That was very nice. That was a more believable relationship. You could actually undestand the motivation/love between them... they made that work, Jonathan Frid & Kate Jackson. You could really feel and understand what their motivation and why that was a tragedy. I thought that the last scenes with them were very effective.
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I really do like 1841PT , and think it's often underated because of it's lack of connection to the regular characters.I don't care for Keith Prentice, though and agree with the previous post that Jerry Lacy playing the role could have been great.
One of my big problems is with PT Daphne, she's such a wimp. [spoiler]What exactly does she die from anyways?Bramwell not loving her seems to be the reason.[/spoiler]I'd much prefered if she'd had a story with PT Quentin instead, as they had such great chemistry in RT.
All that aside, I like the curse story line.
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The 1841PT storyline has always been one of my favorites. I was never a big fan of Kate Jackson's in the beginning of debut on DS but I have to say that her character began to appeal to me during this story line. I thought her and Jonathan's acting was totally solid. Lara & JF were OMG terrific and Nancy Barrett and John Karlen together were outstanding. Almost everyone was excellent (except for Keith Prentice who was just okay) since they knew the show was ending they pumped it up a notch or two. Shirley Jackson's 'The Lottery' is one of the best American short stories ever written IMO. The whole period provided excellent acting, superb drama, nail-biting tension and sheer excitement IMO.
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I guess I'm also one of the few Keith Prentice fans. I enjoyed his short stint on the show and thought his acting was fine.
I also enjoyed how they sorta "turned the tables" regarding Jonathan Frid's and Lara Parker's characters. As Barnabas and Angelique, he originally loved her and then ran off to marry another, while she never stopped doing whatever it took to get him back, no matter how many times he told her to go peddle her papers (even though, deep down and in denial, he always still had the razzmattazz for her). Now, as Bramwell, he wants her as Catherine, while she went off and tied the knot with another, telling him to go ring somebody else's doorbell (even though she is googly-eyed for him).
Last, but not least among my other likes is seeing a mature Josette DuPres Collins. Mary Conrad is absolutely fantastic in the part, and is my favorite supporting character. She's just so good, you just wanna have her as your mommy. Along with that, a few years back during the run of PT1841, we had a neat discussion here regarding why Josette (and along with her, her now-deceased husband Barnabas, and their son Bramwell) was so ostracized by the family; it was never made clear, or even really hinted at in the series. [spoiler]And it was obvious that this hostility towards her and her marriage with Barnabas existed long before she and the master of Collinwood had their little - ahem - "get-together".[/spoiler] I submitted that it had to do with late-18th/early-19th century prejudices, in that Josette was a Roman Catholic, something a staunch, New England Protestant family would not want having marrying into the clan. Spooks, cursed rooms, family members going mad and murderous, whatchyagonnado? But a Catholic? Perish the thought. You know those restricted-country-club types. Papa's knifing the help, but at least they ain't eatin' fish on Friday.
Anyway, there were so many wonderfully subtle little things in that last and final storyline, it always makes for good gabbing on message boards with fellow fans.
Gerard
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I submitted that it had to do with late-18th/early-19th century prejudices, in that Josette was a Roman Catholic, something a staunch, New England Protestant family would not want having marrying into the clan. Spooks, cursed rooms, family members going mad and murderous, whatchyagonnado? But a Catholic? Perish the thought. You know those restricted-country-club types. Papa's knifing the help, but at least they ain't eatin' fish on Friday.
lolololololol!!!!
Good one
(and I remember this from last time around!)
Patti
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I loved the storyline too --- the acting, the pacing of the storylienes, the costumes, etc. Morgan and Stella did annoy me but I liked Carrie much better in this storyline than in Real Time. I also liked the glimpse into 1680 PT storyline and seeing Grayson Hall as Constance and Nancy Barrett as Amanda. My main wish for the story was that Virginia Vestoff had continued in her role as the nurse...some of the other characters could have used her as the storyline went on!
Wiley
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**My** favorite thing about 1841 PT/1840 is.......
[hello] [hello] Kate Jackson! [hello] [hello]
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Hey,
I'll tell ya what MY favorite thing about 1841 is......
(http://home.earthlink.net/~lightdance/images/1841-quentin.jpg)
[hello]
(JUST THOUGHT I'D ADD A LITTLE BEAUTY TO THINGS ON THIS COLD, DARK NIGHT)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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After hearing such negative comments about 1841 PT I was preparing to hate it...I was just gonna buy 25 and only watch the conclusion of the 1840 RT story, but I decided what the hey I'll watch 1841...and to my surprise I am enjoying it!
It is odd watching Jonathan play a character other than Barnabas and Lara the heroine rather than the villian but they both pull it off nicely.
It's great to see John Karlen and Nancy Barrett still click together....you know I never would have dreamed they would have been so great together, especially watching the old black and white episodes when Carolyn was the spoiled rich girl and Willie the grave-robbing scoundrel. But seeing them as Desmond and Letica and then Melanie and Kendrick, they are just too adorable!
So cheers to PT 1841!
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So cheers to PT 1841!
And another 1841PT fan is born. ;)
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My favorite thing about PT1841 is how Jonathan and Lara really sizzle up the screen as Bramwell and Catherine, and I agree, Jonathan getting another character did help reenergize his acting...
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....you know I never would have dreamed they would have been so great together, especially watching the old black and white episodes when Carolyn was the spoiled rich girl and Willie the grave-robbing scoundrel.
I definitely see what you mean and I think it's a testament to the acting abilities and range of two of the best actors on DS.
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I too was prepared to dislike 1841 PT, then I found myself really enjoying it!
It was interesting to see Bramwell and Catherine together, and that instead of being part of the "rich Collins" family, he is a poor relation trying to prove his worth to himself, his family and Catherine.
This time, it is he who is obsessed with someone, although Catherine really loved him, it was fascinating to see how their roles were reversed in a way, as Angelique is usually the vengeful rejected person.
I too am a fan of 1841 PT! ;D
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This time, it is he who is obsessed with someone, although Catherine really loved him, it was fascinating to see how their roles were reversed in a way, as Angelique is usually the vengeful rejected person.
Well, you ALL know how *I* feel about 1841 PT, LOL! [hall2_grin]
Regarding the above comment, I love the scene where [spoiler]Josette is consoling Bramwell because he just can't get the girl and she says something like, "I know how much you love her son" and he retorts, "Love? I wonder. Maybe I'm just OBSESSED w/her!"[/spoiler]