DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '25 I => Current Talk '03 II => Topic started by: LoveAtFirstBITE on September 08, 2003, 09:32:46 PM
-
I'm sorry but this current storyline makes me vomit with rage. I realize it's a transition from 1995 to 1840, but parts of it couldn't be more coma-inducing (IMHO).
So we've got two kids who are hanging out in a *mysterious* playroom at ages 12 or 13, easily amused by a carousel and dollhouse. David's got a new friend who is a bit more the jittery sort than Amy. Where are those sedatives when you need them? They are encountering two ghosts, one good, the other evil (stop me if this sounds familiar), and periodically falling under possession.
Then we have the grown-up bunch. They got an advantageous head start by a list of clues that Carolyn left them in '95. An unfinished horoscope of Elizabeth, who turned her nose up at these kinds of things before but is suddenly a believer. They keep looking at the thing over and over for more clues that they can't seem to find. Over and over Julia researches for Rose Cottage, which they can't find out about either.
Then we come to the dumbing down of Quentin Collins. He smells lilacs every time Daphne is around, which brings us to: Why is she doing this to Quentin?? Why does she seem to want him one minute and not the next? What is the point of luring him to her and then not saying a thing?!?!? Why why why?? I know that the writers didn't know quite what to do with him once they left 1897, but this in my opinion, was the absolute worst they could do with him.
Finally we come to the two key players here. Barnabas and Julia are all set to sound the alarm when Gerard strikes, but they can't get anyone else into the act, since there isn't much to go on so far. And it's not just because of a lack of bathrooms at Collinwood. They fail to realize that the others are not acting quite like usual. Quentin is becoming more evasive and withdrawn, and Liz just stares at them and speaks in a drone, accusing them of wanting to disrupt things around the household. They haven't yet picked up on any of this! Not to mention that Julia continually feels "the presence." You'd think that by now at least Barnabas would be getting wise to this kind of stuff.
I haven't seen some of these episodes, so if anything I've mentioned has been resolved or addressed, please tell me. I've thrown my hands up at this point.
The only good thing that seems to have happened is that David and Hallie are employing useful arts and crafts skills which will guide them well throughout their lives.
-
It's not just you. I had intended to start writing my column again but every time I try it's all I can do to get through the episodes without giving up in disgust. None of the characters act like themselves, and the logic of the plot is non-existent. It really feels like I'm underwater when I watch the show.
Plus WTF is going on with Chris Pennock's cow collar medallion thingy?
-
...... WTF is going on with Chris Pennock's cow collar medallion thingy?
ROFLMAO....gasping for breath. [lghy]
I wondered what THAT thing was supposed to be myself.
-
I watched all the episodes through one time. I'll watch the episodes during my favorite storylines and then skip these episodes and others I don't care for. I think some of what's going on is resolved. But
[spoiler]one thing that I found annoying was that the children, who were so so important before going back in time, suddenly become total nonessential characters. ::)[/spoiler]
-
I completely agree with you. LoveAtFirstBite! This storyline is the most atrocious of them all, IMO. I'm not even watching the show at this point because, as I explained to a friend yesterday, "Everybody is running around like they've been lobotomized!"
Sample episode
*************
Elizabeth: Everything is perfectly all right. Enough of this nonsense about a disaster! I don't want anyone to frighten the children.
Hallie: Oh, David, I'm frightened!
David: Don't be frightened, Hallie.
Hallie: David, what are we going to do?
David: We'd better do whatever Gerard tells us to do.
Hallie: I'm so frightened!
Quentin: The lilacs! Daphne! Oh, God!
Julia: Barnabas, time is running out and we're no closer to solving the clues. What are we going to do now?
Barnabas: I don't know, Julia. Why don't you tell me about the rabbits again?
*************
Adding the new vampire does create some fresh excitement, but otherwise, the characters and situations are ridiculous, dull, and repetitive. After the spooky brilliance of 1995, I was deeply disappointed by this mess.
ProfStokes
-
Julia's couture provides the *only* source of excitement for this viewer during the current storyline.
G.
-
Arts and craft skills come in handy during those long months at Wyndcliff Sanitarium/Rehabilitation Center for the Criminally Insane/Resort Spa for Mindless Imbibers who see Dead People.
Pearl one, knit two.
The only good thing that seems to have happened is that David and Hallie are employing useful arts and crafts skills which will guide them well throughout their lives.
-
Hey Guys!
Adra here.I think that something may definitely be wrong with this little transition from 1995 to 1840.It seems that lately...I have been laughing a lot while watching these episodes.I guess that says something right there.This little storyline is hilarious.It seems that all the scenes with David and Hallie are funny.Those children are a hoot.And...what did you all think of Carolyn(Leticia) giving a concert with one person in the room.I swear,Dark Shadows can be so funny at times.As someone mentioned earlier,I find it funny how Daphne can summon Quentin but then when he gets to the room,she says nothing.This is all somethin' else.I can't wait to see what 1840 is going to be like.I'm also awaiting the arrival of Virginia Vestoff as Samantha Collins.
Just some of my opinions,
Adra
PS..Am I the only one who finds Gerard's menacing glare kinda sexy? :-X
-
What I find totally exasperating is that fact that Barnabas goes on about the clues and the impending doom at Collinwood, yet he is hardly ever there to help out; instead, he spends his evening hours brooding over Roxanne Dru.
It really aggravates me as well when past events and the lessons learned never come into play for characters. David, for example, had a ghost for a best friend and was Ghost Quentin's prime target for most of his revenge plot. Yet David acts as though he's never had any experiences with ghosts.
Maggie is attacked by a vampire and displays the same kind of behavior from when she was under Barnabas' thrall, and the connection never occurs to her, or anyone, besides Julia.
Same with Elizabeth, who left her house when it was possessed by Ghost Quentin, but you'd think all that bad craziness never ever happened...
-
it's all a mess. . as Steve said the only high point was Julia swinging her butt into the Drawing Room yesterday. . .Oh and when she gets to PT. . the "insane" man trying to strangle her!
-
I kind of like the fact that Julia is bossing everyone around including Liz. I get a hoot out of how she has taken control. Not that it is doing any good.
Birdie
-
I haven't been able to see the recent episodes since I no longer have cable, but my memory of the Summer of 1970 sequence is very different from the comments here. It's possible that I would find a second viewing disappointing, but my memory is that I found the entire arc of 1995 through 1840 the most fascinating and complex storyline DS ever did. The tantalizing clues that no one could quite grasp or hang on to as they were fulfilled one after another was one of the most suspenseful sequences of the series I remember, and also one of the most disturbing since the characters were helpless to do anything to stop the wheel of fate ... the powers of evil surrounding them were truly inexorable ...
I'd be hard pressed to find a storyline where characters didn't act inconsistently or apparently forget information that ardent viewers such as ourselves know so well. Certainly these things are irritating, but they're pretty much par for the course throughout much of DS.
I would disagree with the comment about how David should be remembering the haunting of Quentin. It was my understanding that the past had been changed in 1897, and that therefore the haunting of Quentin never took place in the present day. As far as Quentin being dumbed down -- in what storyline wasn't he? Just as an example of some of the silliness that DS often left us with was Quentin going to the cave to stake Barnabas (which wasn't so long ago, but I can't remember the storyline!); for some reason changing his mind, but -- very obviously and too stupidly to be believed -- dropping the hammer and stake before running out of the cave, which Pansy Faye then found quite handy ...
The baffling behavior of Daphne is part of the mystery, as is the inappropriate behavior of David and Hallie, who are under the thrall of evil. The futile efforts of Barnabas et al. to make sense of the puzzle gave me a sense of hopelessness, a bleak nihilistic outlook that I felt, upon my first viewing, was incredibly effective.
-
Dumbing down characters is one thing, but why is Quentin acting so.... for want of a better word...whipped. You'd think he was some youth of fifteen or sixteen who'd never had a girlfriend before instead of a man with a rather impressive romantic resume. Yet he's acting like some love sick calf over Daphne. As for Gerard's facial expressions, it seems to me he needs a good dosing of metamucil.
-
I'm trying to think how to put this.
It's like all of the characters are on some kind of mind-altering substance--not the same one either; it's like everyone of them are taking different kinds of drugs. Some of them are coming down from the high. Others are higher than the flag on the fourth of July. Others are just starting to get looped.
Logic and reality have not only left the building; they've departed the state.
The dialogue and the plot are that insane.
-
I would disagree with the comment about how David should be remembering the haunting of Quentin. It was my understanding that the past had been changed in 1897, and that therefore the haunting of Quentin never took place in the present
Hi Vlad,
When Quentin is introduced as Grant Douglas, everyone remembered him as the Ghost [ghosty](including Amy and David). Later, Quentin gives the explanation that he is a descendant of Quentin thus like Barnabas is welcomed with open arms. So, I guess technically speaking no one should remember a haunting that never took place but that is not what the writers worked out.
-
It really aggravates me as well when past events and the lessons learned never come into play for characters. David, for example, had a ghost for a best friend and was Ghost Quentin's prime target for most of his revenge plot. Yet David acts as though he's never had any experiences with ghosts.
Maggie is attacked by a vampire and displays the same kind of behavior from when she was under Barnabas' thrall, and the connection never occurs to her, or anyone, besides Julia.
Technically, since they went back in time and "fixed" the past, Quentin never haunted Collinwood in the present. Then he shows up at Collinwood in the present and everyone freaks out. Go figure.
The vampire-Maggie connection shouldn't occur to anyone else other than Julia. She was the only one who knew about Barnabas and now she knows that he did not attack Maggie this time.
PS..Am I the only one who finds Gerard's menacing glare kinda sexy? :-X
Yes.
;D
-
After 1897, the writers didn't realize the characters should not have remembered the haunting of Quentin's ghost as he never should have been there. In an 1897 episode right after history in 1897 is changed, Barnabas states "History has been changed, David was never possessed".
I think that by this time, the writers are having everyone forget the Quentin ghost haunting (as they should have before) since it never hapened. Maybe the time ripple effect took a while to reach the present.
-
Dumbing down characters is one thing, but why is Quentin acting so.... for want of a better word...whipped. You'd think he was some youth of fifteen or sixteen who'd never had a girlfriend before instead of a man with a rather impressive romantic resume. Yet he's acting like some love sick calf over Daphne.
Quentin's other lady loves were flesh-and-blood, even Amanda Harris (the one created by Charles Delaware Tate). Daphne is Quentin's first ghostly love ... and the logic and influence of ghosts is not the same as that in ordinary relationships.
Onyx Treasure wrote:
When Quentin is introduced as Grant Douglas, everyone remembered him as the Ghost (including Amy and David). Later, Quentin gives the explanation that he is a descendant of Quentin thus like Barnabas is welcomed with open arms. So, I guess technically speaking no one should remember a haunting that never took place but that is not what the writers worked out.
Thanks for refreshing my memory, OnyxTreasure ... Adding to that, I would submit that this is an example of a rather glaring discrepancy within another storyline. I know that no one has specifically said there were no inconsistencies in characterization or factual continuity in other storylines -- although reading this thread one might get the impression that such problems are specific to Summer of 1970, and that obviously isn't the case.
I'm going by my general impressions and memory from my viewing last time, and I don't completely recall the illogical aspects referred to by Luciaphil, though the atmosphere she describes may have been intentional. Everyone's behavior, including Quentin and the children's, is abnormal because they're all under the influence of spirits.
I just remember being mesmerized by this segment's events, fascinated with the mystery of Rose Cottage, challenged by the depressing philosophy that seems to be behind it all -- that we can do nothing against fate: the die is cast. And within the greater context of 1840, the plotting for this entire story arc seemed to me the most well-planned, meticulous, and cohesive. Which is not to say that changes weren't made along the way as 1840 unfolds, but 1995 - Summer of 1970 - 1840 holds together far better, IMO, than the 1897 storyline, for example.
-
You may be right, Vlad; it's hard for me to judge. I've been watching DS randomly so I suppose it's possible I'm missing enough of the big picture.
The writing is uniformly terrible though and I stand by my statement that the dialogue and the plot are absolutely bloody nuts.
-
I guess I'm just not up on this ghostly love thing. Although there were some women in my past who treated me like a ghost - as if I wasn't there. Then again, Mrs. Julian also does that now and again, especially when I tell her she doesn't really need yet another pair of shoes.
-
I'll second that, Luciaphil. I'm not watching, but I do read Robservations to try and stay current....and I'll bet it's even worse to READ this dialogue than it is to WATCH the actors perform it.
The whole issue of ignoring warnings and refusing to believe what's going on is too stupid for words.
This is COLLINWOOD, for pete's sake. Liz survived the Leviathan nonsense, but ghosts are too far fetched?
These people shouldn't register surprise, much less disbelief, if the chairs began to dance with the lamps.
-
I'm going by my general impressions and memory from my viewing last time, and I don't completely recall the illogical aspects referred to by Luciaphil, though the atmosphere she describes may have been intentional...
Well, there's what's illogical to the characters and then what is illogical to the viewer--if I'm reading Luciaphil correctly--and that can make a big difference when you're watching it.
As for the residents of Collinwood forgetting Ghost Quentin, I remember the episode where "Grant Douglas" shows up and is talking to Roger in the drawing room; Amy comes in with a wicked little grin, having just cranked up the victrola playing "Quentin's Theme", to see if she could get a rise out of Quentin--which, come to think of it, was a pretty stupid thing for her to do, especially if she believed Quentin was, in fact, still a ghost. ::)
-
I have mixed feelings about this storyline. The only part I really, really dislike are the long scenes with David and Hallie. I have no problem with Kathy Cody (unlike most people, it seems) but the scenes get boring and irritating after awhile, IMO.
I sorta like how Roxanne is acting in 1970. It's a lot more interesting than the Roxanne of 1970PT. Sebastian's taste in clothes is very scary.
I liked the scene in #1077 when Maggie, Quentin, Carolyn, and David were having a picnic. It did inject a tiny bit of 'normal' reality into DS.
I like Kate Jackson and James Storm in their roles. However, I dislike the music they usually play whenever Daphne pops up. I liked it at first, but after the first million times it gets on my nerves.
I'm confused by Elizabeth - at times it seems like she's still under Gerard's control, but at other times it doesn't. At first I thought it was only temporary. I also think it's stupid how she seems to ignore the fact that weird things happen, but it's not the first time something like that has happened.
Quentin hasn't been really well written ever since the end of 1897. He had virtually nothing to do in Leviathan other than the 'Quentin's Lost Memory' plot and when he went to Hell to save Amanda/Olivia. I don't mind how he's acting since he is under the control of Daphne, it seems.
Everyone in Collinwood seems in a dazed state. Julia seems to be the only one who really wants to find out what's going to happen - I've noticed Barnabas hasn't been on that often.
I'm looking forward to the episodes where
[spoiler]Collinwood is destroyed. I have the destruction of Collinwood episode on tape from MPI, but so far I'm enjoying seeing what's leading up to the disaster at Collinwood.[/spoiler]
-
I like Kate Jackson and James Storm in their roles. However, I dislike the music they usually play whenever Daphne pops up. I liked it at first, but after the first million times it gets on my nerves.
The music that is used for Daphne sounds more like the music they use in those 50's outer space movies. It has become tiresome and annoying. I think they could have come up with some other romantic but ethereal melody for the ghost of Daphne instead of "it came from outer space" music. :P
-
I like Kate Jackson and James Storm in their roles. However, I dislike the music they usually play whenever Daphne pops up. I liked it at first, but after the first million times it gets on my nerves.
The music that is used for Daphne sounds more like the music they use in those 50's outer space movies. It has become tiresome and annoying. I think they could have come with some other romantic but ethereal melody for the ghost of Daphne instead of "it came from outer space" music. :P
I remember that music and can hear it now, two years (?) later, now that you mention it! I agree, the sci-fi outer-space quality of the music didn't seem to fit the ghost of Daphne. It was weird sounding, so that may have been what they were aiming for given that this part of the story has a lot of weirdness. But a more ethereal melody, as you mention would have been nice. Maybe they didn't want another "Josette's Theme" but something completely different to make the storyline seem completely different.
I remember the picnic, too -- the impression, if not the details, remain memorable.
-
Well, there's what's illogical to the characters and then what is illogical to the viewer--if I'm reading Luciaphil correctly--and that can make a big difference when you're watching it.
Yep, that's exactly what I meant.
They did possession pretty well before. It was creepy. It was effective. I got what was going on with no problem whatsoever.
These days? I can't tell whether Elizabeth is acting like a freak because the ghosts are influencing her or because the writers are phoning it in.
It does not help that I loathe Drippy, dippy Daphne...
-
These days? I can't tell whether Elizabeth is acting like a freak because the ghosts are influencing her or because the writers are phoning it in.
Does anyone know who the writers were? (I don't know how I'm going to survive without my Program Guide ... I was just throwing things into boxes when I moved recently and all DS books went into "long-term storage" at my parents'. At least the DS books weren't among the bushels I had to sell or throw away ...)
I don't remember anything about the terrible dialogue etc. that everyone is talking about. (Oddly, I don't remember any particular criticism of these episodes on the forum last time ... ) The overall story concepts I loved (have I said that enough times? ;) )
The good news is that I may get cable after all. The building I live in has a special deal that's much cheaper than I paid for the past few years.
-
Regarding Julia's bossiness: I think when this period was airing last time i posed the question "Who IS the REAL Mistress of Collinwood??
-
Then again, Mrs. Julian also does that now and again, especially when I tell her she doesn't really need yet another pair of shoes.
as she should[lol2] you always NEED a new pair of shoes[lol2]
jennifer
BIG SALE at Macy's in am Better catch some ZZZZ's[sleep]
-
but first i'll add i think 1970 was a big let down after 1995! i was
expecting so much more to happen! to 1840[beer] and BEN!
love that old guy :-*
jennifer
-
The music that is used for Daphne sounds more like the music they use in those 50's outer space movies. It has become tiresome and annoying. I think they could have come with some other romantic but ethereal melody for the ghost of Daphne instead of "it came from outer space" music. :P
Yes, yes! That "creature from outerspace" music has been bothering me for a long time now. It belongs in low budget scifi flick and not on Dark Shadows at all! Considering the usual excellence of the DS scoring, it is surprising that they would use something that doesn't evoke anything spooky and sounds pretty cheesy.
My take on this 1970 ghostly love/possession story is that it would have been a lot more compelling had they not dragged it out far too long. I agree that everyone is acting pretty loopy here, even crazier than usual, which for DS is saying a lot! I guess you can cast the blame on spirit possession for some of them, but the same can't be said for Barnabas and Julia who should be in full possession of their own wits so far. Why in heaven's name don't they get the h*ll out of their and take David and Hallie with them, kicking and screaming if need be?
It almost seems that the writer(s) didn't really know where they were going with this story, or that they were still deciding the signifance of Rose Cottage and Daphne's and Gerard's reasons for becoming evil ghosts. By the way, I don't think that Daphne's ghost is good at all as she is clearly helping Gerard in
planning David's and Hallie's demise and she almost stabbed Quentin to death.
As ghosts Gerard and Daphne are a bit too corporeal to be that scary, although there are times when lighting and expression (i.e. Gerard's scowl) are used to good effect. I found Quentin's ghost a lot more menacing. His appearance seemed somehow more unexpected and understated. Ghosts that appear and over and act more like evil live people are simply not that scary.
Anyway, I am looking forward to 1840!
-
My take on this 1970 ghostly love/possession story
I think your observations are well expressed, and, beyond that, you provide some well-thought out speculations/explanations to back them up, happybat ...
I don't remember feeling that 1970 dragged on too long, though that would seem to have happened with a few DS storylines ...
Perhaps on a second viewing I would have concluded, too, that the writers were undecided about the significance of Rose Cottage and the reasons for Daphne and Gerard's evil. The writers may have been feeling their way through, as you suggest. When I viewed these episodes last time, I felt the 1970 events were part of the mystery, and it seemed the answers were provided in 1840. That's one reason why I find it difficult to separate 1995, Summer of 1970, and 1840 from each other, because they are all interconnected plotwise (and I would argue thematically, as well).
I agree that Quentin's ghost was scarier than Gerard's or Daphne's, but wasn't sure why -- your explanation sounds plausible.
I'm excited about 1840 coming up (won't mind if I miss the zombies or whoever they are before then) and hopefully being able to see it a second time. I'm hoping it won't be trashed like 1970 was this go-round ....
-
Thanks, Vlad. I have a feeling that I enjoyed this storyline more the first time around. It has somehow lost that all-important element of surprise for me. However, I completely forgot about Daphne's re-animation to flesh and blood, so that was an interesting twist that I thought went against most established "canons" of supernatural fiction. After all, if her original body is now bone and dust, where did this new one come from, gowned and all? And what was with those crumpled balls of foil floating in the air during the ritual? I almost fell off my couch laughing when I saw them! [lghy]
Sorry you missed the Festival, Vlad. I'd love hearing more about your move and your experiences in library school! My, there are a lot of librarians and librarians to be on this board, aren't there?
-
First...Julian...you're funny ;D
V.W.R...I too like the way Roxanne looks.. at least she appears to have a spine...instead of weak, wimpy, etc.
What I was thinking before I read this long thread was also about Quentin.
He's not a kid; he's 30ish. What bothers me is that he'd let his enamorment (not love, you've gotta know someone to be in love...and as a grown-up, he should know that too) interfer with the welfare of children, especially David who he has a relationship with.
I don't know any adult who would forget about the kids' well-being just do be with 'dippity do Daphne'.
Patti
But...I'm liking some of this...too bad they couldn't have done more with the whole deal of 'Rose Cottage'.
-
Happybat, Condolences on the recent violent and tragic events in your former home country ...
...
Patti,
Will you be watching 1840 for the first time? Rose Cottage does play a significant role. That's an example of why I don't judge "Summer of Love", er, I mean "Summer of 1970," in isolation ... it sets the stage for the events in the past that we'll be going to ...
-
I couldn't help but laugh at a lot of the comments people have been making in this thread, especially questioning the sanity/sobriety levels of the characters. (Wardrobe choices?!) Aiya.
One other thing I had to mention re : Everyone forgetting Quentin's ghost (or not). Does anyone remember the scene, shortly after Amy became a Leviathan that she had a dream about Quentin's ghost and told Jeb about it? Does anyone remember if they ever went anywhere with that? Did that benefit the Leviathans in any way? I cannot remember.
I myself also found Quentin & Beth's ghost spookier than Gerard and Daphne. Though I think Quentin relied more on dangerous charm while Gerard is just plain dangerous. Beth's ghost was spookier than Daphne because she was just so damn sad. Daphne appears to be following Gerard just because he has control over her. It could be the era itself as well. The 1840's saw the birth of Spiritualism in America, but gothic romance reigned in the Victorian age.
I don't know and I could be babbling. ;D
Looking forward to 1840 myself. John Karlen is given a great role to play and his performance is one of my favorites. Despite some of the ridiculous story events that happen later on, this was a tight story with great acting and great action.
~Arashi
-
And it's not just because of a lack of bathrooms at Collinwood.
This has always been my theory as to why there was constant trouble at Collinwood in one way or another. (The same reason why the crew of the USS Enterprise had problems - imagine a five year mission and you can't go once.)
Gerard
-
- imagine a five year mission and you can't go once.)
aah no :o
jennifer
-
And it's not just because of a lack of bathrooms at Collinwood.
This has always been my theory as to why there was constant trouble at Collinwood in one way or another. (The same reason why the crew of the USS Enterprise had problems - imagine a five year mission and you can't go once.)
Gerard,
I hear you! However, what about poor Barnabas? Can you imagine being chained up in that coffin for nearly 170 years without having the benefit of/access to a "Water Closet"? Talk about doing your penance on Earth!!!
Bob the Bartender, who wonders if Joshua Collins provided his vampiric son with a hefty supply of Detrol before Ben Stokes chained Mister Barnabas up in that coffin?