DARK SHADOWS FORUMS
General Discussions => Current Talk Archive => Current Talk '24 I => Current Talk '13 II => Topic started by: Janet the Wicked on September 06, 2013, 08:36:25 PM
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Watching Depp’s interpretation of DS. Although I find this film amusing, I must say that it stinks. I am discouraged and disappointed that The Forum has taken such a liking to this thing. I am also saddened to see that the Forum has been dedicated to this film to the point that it hails over all the original show. I was not surprised that Mr. Depp and Mr. Burton came out with such a nut-case story, for that is the norm for them. I have been a member of the Forum for several years. I have found it amusing and a most informative site. I’ve even made friends here over the years. I want to know, Moderator, what in God’s name you find so great about this film???
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It is necessary to take exception with this post. Granted, the movie was more of a spoof than anything else. And it's true that the movie had far more to do with the eccentricities of Depp & Burton than anything to do with the original show. They are truely an Odd Couple.
Still, my final verdict on the film is one of appreciation. Although for a fleeting moment, it was Jonathan Frid's final film appearance. And Depp/Burton, in my opinion, did their best to appeal to a new and far more fickle audience while trying to remain faithful to the original show and fan base. It was a daunting and very expensive task. My hat is off to all the people that worked so hard on this production.
Sadly, Dark Shadows, The Series is, like The Beatles, a phenomenon of the 60's. We will always feel its influence, but the past is gone and will never return. Dark Shadows without Jonathan Frid as Barnabas is like The Fab Four without John Lennon. Anything less will pale in comparison. Let's be grateful for any effort to recapture the magic of Dark Shadows because it calls attention to the original show and its devoted fans the world over.
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I thought the film was a fun tribute. Many of the comic bits fell flat, but the serious moments were wonderful.
It was visually stunning, and the acting from Depp/Pfeiffer/Green was superb.
It could have been better, but it wasn't bad.
I attended Lara Parker's book signing two weeks ago here in San Francisco. Here's what she had to say about the film: "A big budget from a major studio with big stars. What a tribute that is to what we did forty years ago!"
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Mainly the reason the Depp/DS film is currently featured on the BoardIndex every day is because, as the latest incarnation of DS, it happens to be the latest featured slideshow in the forum's slideshows series. Other versions have included one for the '91 DS (which ran on the BoardIndex for that show's 30th anniversary), one for the two original films (which ran on the BoardIndex spanning 2008 and 2009, and all of 2012), and two separate slideshows for the original DS (which in total ran for a period of 4 years on the BoardIndex).
And as for what's to like about the Depp/DS film, well, there's honestly much to like about it. And by reading through the slideshow topic for the film ("And Yet Another New Slideshow"), many of those reasons will be cited. And while we realize that many fans weren't all that impressed with the film, it's also true that quite a few actually were.
Plus, there's also what we hope is an important aspect to the forum, and that's that we strive to showcase all the various versions of DS and all the original show's storylines and characters and actors - and we do this despite the fact that some versions of DS and some of the original storylines and characters and actors have many detractors. But again, there are also quite a few fans who love those very same versions and those very same storylines and those very same characters and those very same actors. Ignoring any one version of DS or any of the original series' storylines or character or actors would be a slight to the fans who do indeed enjoy them. We strive to be inclusive of all the DS universes, which is also one of the reasons the set of backgrounds and logos for the forum alternate through all the various TV and film versions of DS that there have been (well, save for the WB's '04 DS pilot - though, trust me, we've considered including it too) and there are ongoing topics for other things like the Dynamite comic book series and the Big Finish audio dramas.
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I loved the film. I thought it was a fine tribute to DS. As far as I'm concerned, it contained much more in this remake sans Dan Curtis than the '91 version with Dan Curtis. Barnabas totally lost 200 years later trying to understand 20th century life, style and technology? That was brilliant, so much more than DC haveing him resurrected and withing 72 hours fitting in when he shouldn't have had a clue as to what's what without months of prepration. We all kvetch about how DC totally discarded logic and rationality in the OS DS, but we still love it. As far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't kvetch about how it should've really been.
Again, as someone who loved the film and thought it presented DS brilliantly, I know there are those OS DS fans who think differently. But then, to each their own. I'm just glad I didn't see another rehash lacking logic like the '91 version full of stereotypical melodrama that was basically not a remake of DS, but of HoDS. The sagrine retelling of Barnabas/Vicki (which was actually Barnabas/Maggie which the movie brought back) just simply not can be done again in a Twilight setting.
But then again, as has been stated, to each their own. I watched it again last night and was enthralled. That's my own. I don't want to see a totally "serious" reimagining of the Barnabas/Vicki thing. Vicki is a stupid bore. By '67 she had become a secondary character, if not just an annoyance. In JD-DS, the main character in the female leading lady who caught Barnabas' attention was Maggie - she used the made-up name of Vicki to find out what it was all about. That's brilliant and a great homage to the OS DS. In the JD-DS, Vicki as Josette was "fictional." The only Josette was Maggie. Brilliant. But theh, if people didn't like it, to each their own. I will never accept Vicki as Josette. Maggie is Josette.
Gerard
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Well said, Gerard & MB.
Each incarnation of DS has things that work and things that don't.
The original has 1795, 1897, 1995, Haunting of Collinwood, and Maggie in the basement, all of which remain brilliant to this day.
But we all know how poorly executed the last 6 months of the show and parts of the Leviathin story are.
DS is a small franchise when one compares it to Star Trek, Star Wars & others. It needs our support in order to survive.
Constructive criticism is good.
Boycotts and public trashing are not.
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I don't think more value is placed on the Depp film than on the original series, not at all. It's not considered better or more deserving of attention than the 60s/70s show by anyone here, I'll go out on a limb to say. This forum isn't really a place for any new fans of the new movie, who don't appreciate the old series.
The only reason that news about the new movie is trumpeted the moment you come to the site is that it WAS news, the only new and interesting DS event for many years. The reason wasn't that anyone thought the film was better.
I post in the captions board, and the Watching Project, and those are overwhelmingly about the original series. We could use more people there, I admit.
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Speaking of the captions type boards, I still have a lot of captures and set ups that I want to post for the Depp/DS film. But I've fallen so behind on the stuff that's already been posted and replied to for the original series that I'm focusing on trying to catch up there. [ghost_wink] But I will get back to the Depp/DS film's boards, as well as the boards for NoDS, which I've also been neglecting...
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i'm sorry but this topic is really nervy and out of line...
not only is an explanation being asked for but also something approaching an apology. no one should have to apologize or defend themselves on this subject.
the "fan" attitudes and borderline hysteria around this film are ridiculous.
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I don't particularly care for the 1991 series but I wouldn't criticize the moderators for featuring it on the board.
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I'm not a fan of Depp Shadows but I am enjoying the slide show because the design elements of the film were so fantastic. I am also gaining more appreciation for HBC's performance as Julia. On my single viewing of the film I had already decided that Michelle Pfeiffer was the real star of the movie and what I've seen here has confirmed that.
For what it is worth, I do understand where you're coming from, Janet. For those of us who watched it as kids, the DS characters are like family. At least that is how I feel about them. And some of the stuff in the Burton/Depp movie was sooo cheesy and cartoonish. I had a pretty emotional reaction myself when the trailers started coming out.
I simply choose NOT to talk about how it all makes me feel 90 percent of the time when the movie is discussed here.
cheers, G.
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i'm sorry but this topic is really nervy and out of line...
not only is an explanation being asked for but also something approaching an apology. no one should have to apologize or defend themselves on this subject.
the "fan" attitudes and borderline hysteria around this film are ridiculous.
There is a history of fan-on-fan bullying that often gets out of control. Only last week, a disabled fan had to publicly ask other fans on Facebook to stop bullying him. His crime:
He enjoys the the DS comic books from Dynamite Entertainment, which he has "no right" to do!
Such behavior is really embarrassing and turns a lot of people off to fandom.
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I know bullying very well, and this wasn't it. Janet was just expressing strong disappointment. Sometimes an honest opinion is negative.
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i'm not remotely suggesting "bullying" of any sort...
i'm just over this business where one is supposed to justify, defend themselves or even apologize on this particular subject.
and that others feel entitled to that apology is just too much.
here's a suggestion to those who might feel "discouraged" and "disappointed" that this board has taken a rather positive attitude towards the film: start your own DS message board and ban it's discussion from the ouset as board policy or limit it's discussion to only negative viewpoints. problem solved.
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I don't think anyone expects or requires anything like an apology or self-defence. It's okay to be undiplomatic once in awhile, I think, though this can be misinterpreted as an attack. I don't want to speak for Janet, and can't, but I'm going to guess that she was slamming the film, but just expressing bafflement and/or frustration at members here who like it. Nothing worse than that. Maybe all the positive talk about Depp Shadows put her on the defensive, hence the post.
I will say that there's no real answer to make to Janet's post, except for people who like the film to repeat all the same things they've said about it on other threads.
Hi Janet, by the way. Good to see you here again.
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Stay on topic please. Thanks.
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Gee, I was only expressing my opinion. I will admit the film does have its amusing moments. I don't condemn anyone who likes it. I just was curious about all the hubbub. MB explained it quite well and I get it. Chill out, people.
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that's not entirely accurate...
you didn't just express an opinion but demanded an explanation and it seemed like an apology.
which is why I thought it was a bit of an overstep. and i'm plenty "chilled".
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Well, then. I beg your pardon and do forgive me. But they don't call me Janet the Wicked for nothing. No offense intended.
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perhaps I was brusque...
but my point was that there is more than enough hostility towards this film floating around the internet for 10 lifetimes. the "fan" rage around it is completely disproportionate. I don't think I've heard the word "travesty" used so many times in my life.
so the fact that this particular board has taken a moderate, even somewhat positive, attitudes towards it is no harm, no foul. no one is being done a disservice and the hysteria is being kept at a low boil.
and if one looks around most of the posting really does pertain to the OS more than anything else.
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I am by no means hostile. Well, menopause does have a rather hostile impact on my viewpoints these days, among other things. Nah. I'm glad they made the movie. Like I said, it does have its moments and I do enjoy the "Top of the World" sequence. I will admit that the first time I put the DCD in, I was somewhat appalled, but I gave it a second chance with an open mind frame. But, I just don't care for it all that much. I'm by no means a fan of modern films anyway. Sooo...
Just my opinion. Please don't take offense. You know, I read somewhere that they're going to remake "The Grapes of Wrath" and the first words that popped out of my mouth were, "What the hell for?" But I read an article that stated they wanted to appeal to the younger audience, blah, blah, blah... More power to em.
I am pretty much glued to TCM. I will stay there.
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Please don't think anyone's attacking you, Janet, for not liking the film. You're a DS-OS fan an you didn't and that's fine. I'm a DS-OS fan and I loved the film. That's also fine. And, as a DS-OS fan, I didn't like one iota that '91 remake. I thought it was an over-the-board, gore-infested rehash of HoDS, rather than DS-OS. And that's fine. I still appreciate what they tried to do in '91 and failed miserably. I have seen it several times, both in reruns on the Sci-Fi (pre-"SyFy") channel and on Hulu. Why? Because I appreciate that someone has kept out beloved DS alive. I've even learned to appreciate many of the good things in the "travesty" of the '91 remake. I just wish I could see the abortive '04 remake attempt, but you-know-who won't allow it on youtube or anywhere else because he thinks it will take away money. Yeah, right. Just how does he expect to make any money for the estate of DC off of it? Why doesn't he just get with reality and accept that it won't and just let us DS fans enjoy it? (Are you reading this, you-know-who-you-are?)
Anyway, I am an immense fan of DS-12. I thought much of what Burton/Depp did was brilliant. Having Barnabas struggle with life 200 years later was far more brilliant than having the DC-Barnabas (in both the OS and '91 showing up within a day or two dressed to the max in 20th century clothing and knowing what's going on) did. It would be funny. And far more realistic. But trying to rehash the original storyline of Barnabas and Josette and Maggie-Victoria today wouldn't work anymore. It just wouldn't. It's all been "twilighted" to death (and I hate Twilight and everything it stands for).
As much as I hated DS-91, I appreciate that it brought in a whole new fan base. DS-12 did the same thing. I went to my first viewing with over two-dozen friends, most of whom didn't know what DS was about and they left as fans.
Like I said, you didn't like DS-12, Janet and that's alright. Be grateful that this site has been optimistic about it because it is our DS. There are those of us who don't like DS-91 and this site has been optimistic about it because it's our DS. (As for those of us who never saw DS-04, blame you-know-who.) Your opinion is valued.
Gerard
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Thanx, Gerard. Thank you. I know there are some out there that have completely given up the site. Look. I'm telling you, all I said was an opinion of the film. I don't condemn anybody that likes it. I am still a DS fan. I still eat hamburgers and drink containers of coffee with them. I swear to God you are all okay!!! Oh, the humanity...
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Alright, Janet, I've written you off. You drink containers of coffee, but there's no vodka involved? Oh, the humanity! What have the gods wrought with you non-likers of DS-12? May Dr. Julia Hoffman, in whatever incarnation, smite you!
Gerard
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Thanx, Gerard. Thank you. I know there are some out there that have completely given up the site. Look. I'm telling you, all I said was an opinion of the film. I don't condemn anybody that likes it. I am still a DS fan. I still eat hamburgers and drink containers of coffee with them. I swear to God you are all okay!!! Oh, the humanity...
that's part of my point. that there are those who have "completely given up" on this great, active, well-moderated site because, why???, it has taken something of a positive approach to the film is absurd and highly indicative of the irrationality of much of the fanbase in this regard. I have noticed some regular posters jumping ship after the release and I don't understand why.
again, it's no harm, no foul. so some members and a couple of moderators enjoyed the film. so what? who's being harmed? there's enough other places on the internet to bitch about the film. here it's kept to a minimum but there's plenty of other things to post about.
and really the film's only been out for about a year and a half. it still has something of an element of "newness" to it for a franchise that only has major output news about once every decade or so. it'll die down.
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that's part of my point. that there are those who have "completely given up" on this great, active, well-moderated site because, why???, it has taken something of a positive approach to the film is absurd and highly indicative of the irrationality of much of the fanbase in this regard. I have noticed some regular posters jumping ship after the release and I don't understand why.
again, it's no harm, no foul. so some members and a couple of moderators enjoyed the film. so what? who's being harmed? there's enough other places on the internet to bitch about the film. here it's kept to a minimum but there's plenty of other things to post about.
Thanks for your support, michael c. I read JtW's original post shortly after seeing this one by a dsboards member on another forum site that I think illustrates what you're saying:
...many of the posts on the Dark Shadows Forum expressed honest disappointment and disapproval, and were logical and well-reasoned arguments, not petty name-calling. The site owner doesn't want a negative reaction at all, certainly not one that makes sense.
[The post's context: http://thelatarniaforums.yuku.com/reply/139449/Tim-Burtons-DARK-SHADOWS#reply-139449 (http://thelatarniaforums.yuku.com/reply/139449/Tim-Burtons-DARK-SHADOWS#reply-139449)]
Well, certainly no one should come here if it's not to their liking, and I've read some highly imaginary reasons for not wanting to (the mods here fix polls to get the results we want, we're homophobic-- two of the more offensive accusations made against us that have no basis in fact whatsoever), and the above comment ranks not very far behind IMO.
MB, dom and I don't judge whether a fan agrees or disagrees with our assessment of the movie or any other aspect of DS, regardless of how long they've been here or where they fall between personal friend and totally anonymous, or long-standing contributor and newbie. Opinions are never moderated nor judged. We appreciate the same sentiment from others-- the mods should be entitled to our opinions as well-- though we know we won't always get it.
If everyone agreed here about everything, it would be kinda boring anyway.
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Alright, Janet, I've written you off. You drink containers of coffee, but there's no vodka involved? Oh, the humanity!
Gerard
Who the hell mixes coffee with vodka? What, are you nuts?
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Well, Janet, actually tea. Just a tad when you have a cold. I think I have one right now!
Gerard
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More power to ya!
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Thank you, Janet! I think my sniffles are getting better!
Gerard